Oh, I totally think of the stick-to-wash ratio of my ride cymbals. But it’s very much dependent on the arrangement of the other instruments. The same cymbal can sound very subdued in a jazz trio situation, while standing out in a big band setting, and vice versa. It may have a well defined crashing sound when you hit it in isolation, but that very same cymbal can get completely lost in an ensemble. Sticks, of course, play a huge role as well. In fact, you can sometimes produce such drastically different sounds with different sticks, that you might think you’re playing a totally different cymbal all together. Pitch matching is another interesting topic. I find that the pitch can vary quite a bit depending on where or how hard you hit the cymbal. On top of that, a great deal of hand-hammered cymbals are non uniform in thickness and taper, and so hitting them in the same zone but on, say, opposing sides will also produce different pitches and stick-to-wash ratio.

Love your vids - so informative and interesting, thank you!

I definitely think of the stick to wash ratio. A lot whilst playing, I know my stick angle, tip, position (near edge, near bell, middle etc), given the room size and how loud I need to be - all of these things impact the sound on a given cymbal, I find. I super loose grip, small contact area on the stick really helps me draw out stick definition. For the cymbals themselves, I like to test a soft crash at the edge and then immediately look for stick definition halfway up the cymbal towards the bell. Another excellent topic!

I always enjoy watching your videos. Thanks for sharing some of your knowledge with us!

I used to think super thin and wobbly was superior in some way, but I've realized what I really like is cymbals with a more medium/thin weight, but that still have a sensitive response. Especially in terms of what I call "edge shimmer", i.e. the highest, "sibilant" frequencies. I don't know why "edge", I just feel like that's where those sounds "leave" the cymbal. One important thing I think is that tension is not necessarily correlated with weight. I've played super thin cymbals that were stiff as a board, and heavier cymbals (not super heavy, but medium/thin) that wobbled like crazy. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think tension is much more determined by shaping, lathing, and bottom vs. top side hammering. Could you comment on how tension is affected by specific types/ways of lathing, and top/bottom hammering?

Fantastic video!!

Fantastic points! In my experience with buying cymbals and having the opportunities to play others' cymbals, being in tons of different rooms, studio, live, etc., my main focuses are also sticking, wash, weight, and volume. The volume of cymbals was something that surprised me sometime within the last 5 or so years; a buddy of mine got a used Meinl Big Apple 24 Dark ride and the thing was incredible, but it was drastically quieter than the rest of his cymbals, so he ended up parting ways with it. That factor alone, volume matching, makes this process even more tedious, especially for someone like me living in the midwest and nowhere near good shops to hear things in person!

Tim - Eric (Hot Sauce) from Cleveland here, thanks for another great vid!!!

Thank you for sharing your expertise on some factors for different sound combinations. I know sounds I like with types of music or gig rooms or band sizes, and how sticks and cymbal weight play their parts, but I never considered the angles and other variations. Now I have a whole new set of things to listen-and look-for!

Very interesting. Thanks for the education

will you please do a video on how rivets (installation and chains) affect a cymbal's sound? I love your content and I am a happy subscriber of this channel!

Very nice cymbal at the top by the way. Could be one of the best of yours that I've heard. As you are no doubt aware, each topic you mention could probably have a its two or three hour video. But I wanted to make a quick point about weight that again I'm sure you know, but maybe people reading the comments are not aware of. It's not overall weight so much as it is it is weight distribution. And when people say they want thin cymbals I really think they just want them thinner on the outer two inches so that they're crash able . Modern cymbals have the weight more evenly distributed, so in order to crash the edge you have to get a thinner cymbal all around. Where as older symbols ( good and great ones) from the 40s and 50s and even into the 60s just had thinneredges with more body in the playing area and the bridge up by the bell. Of course this is generally speaking. Good video

Thanks a lot for this and all your videos. We should have 3 rides, the "same" ride with 3 different Stick to Wash ratio. 80-20, 70-30 and the "crashiest" one 60-40

Tim!!! Awesome video and amzing ride right there my man!!! Wow that is an amazing piece of bronze!!! And im woth you, I used to think thin for the win, nope. Soooooo many other factors. Ive played on a 22 that weighed a little over 2700 grams and it was waaay too thin for the shape it was in. It was all wash. Dude, you are an amazing cumbal maker. You get it. You live it!!! And I love it!! 😁😊

Great video, thanks Tim! Does the first cymbal you play in this video (with the bell) fall into one of your standard 'lines' or models? I love it.

Top!!

bro u are amazing, i have a question , is it normal that mmy K cons MTL 22. has the edge like a litte going upward? I feel like theres a certain hum in it , but dont see anything weird with the cumbal except tthe edges

WOW Excellent subject… I’m going to be sending Timothy an old Blk stamp, 50’s A. ( we talked a few months ago by email/ phone…finally getting around to doing) Timothy is really onto this “ Art Form” of cymbal making… it’s a very cool thing for a lot of us that have these cymbals in our possession.. that are sooo Close.. but something is missing thing!

I tend to like tighter, brighter, cymbals. My top 2 are Paiste 22 602 medium ride and 20 602 medium flat. Not really in the trend, but brought my volume down significantly. I use Pro-Mark 727 oak wood tip. I'm not really a jazz player at all. Reformed basher here. Favorite jazz drummer is Billy Higgens. I have a few records with his 602 rides. To me, it's what I call a 'glistening' sound. The older I get the more i like that and John Densmore rock sounds. I tried Masters, but I felt too lose.

Pardon my French but Tim you fucking mad lad. Thanks for this video! It’s very challenging to understand what you like in a cymbal, but infinitely harder to understand why that cymbal sounds the way it does. This is exactly the kind of information I come here for. Would you say the lathing has an equal part along with the weight and top profile? or would you say smaller but contributing factor? Also thank you for not putting this information behind a pay wall. I don’t want to throw shade but I don’t want to take a class on cymbal making and join tier 9 of patreon just so I can understand how my damn instrument works.

I have a a custom crash that has to be fixed

Hey Timmothy I sent you an email with no response I have an old 22 A and an 18 Constantinople

Wow My name is Tim and I play! Am thinking of buying new Ziljian super thin K 20 crash…….but now ya got me thinking