I'm seeing a lot of comments like this, but these numbers do NOT represent the DPS of a weapon, as that varies greatly between normal/charged and flurry attacks amongst many other factors! DPS can only be measured in games when tested against an single, unretaliating "dummy", which is far from what any Zelda combat is All all of the weapon/armor numbers in this game represent a stat - not a theory

The greatest loss out of this whole ordeal was the ability to see health numbers with armor

I just realized there's an important reason why this may have been done. Fused materials add the same amount of "power" to a spear as a two handed weapon, but if it was a flat damage amount to each, then spears would become disproportionately powerful due to their higher attack speed. The visual indicator may suggest that fused materials are affected by the hidden multipliers, scaling fuse damage up for two handed weapons and down for spears.

Little editing compliment: I really liked that during the brief discussion about rounding, the spear icon had durability up (because they round up) and the greatsword icon had increased throw distance (which looks like a ROUNDED down arrow) Very neat little detail!

I am curious how well these numbers line up with DPS. If they line up pretty well, then that actually makes the "fake" numbers quite useful, as long as you know what they represent. That said, it's a little odd for stuff like mounting Lynels, where all weapons have the same attack speed.

Not having the visible enemy HP numbers is gonna be tough, but we will still find our ways to break down Tears of the Kingdom!! It's a long journey ahead All of our Stats of the Kingdom videos can be found here --> kzfaq.info/sun/PLAjULYyNSE9bm2XnRlEPnwoKcVPdQnG9O

Spears are still my favorite weapon type, low damage is just balanced by how quickly I can dodge out of attacks or how much further I can engage larger targets without worrying about getting hit by something that isn't fully visible on the camera

I noticed that the number balancing of the weapon types is different in this game. I suppose they wanted to make it more like damage by time unit and adjust for attack speed.

I miss the HP showing feature, it was great to figure the numbers on my own on my playthrough. Given how many multipliers there are in this game it would have been incredible

I noticed this during the Mucktorock boss fight where one of my two-handers dealt more damage than my other weapons despite having a lower attack stat.

I honestly prefer the way they handled this system this time around. I saw so many players online in BOTW basically completely ignore spears because they were “weaker” even though realistically their DPS was much HIGHER than swords and two-handed weapons. Same thing with the two-handed weapons; their DPS was much lower, but because of their massive shown damage values, I saw a lot of players tend to gravitate towards them exclusively. Now, I see those same players online using a healthy balance of all three main weapon types, which is really awesome and provides a better overall playing experience where these players don’t feel frustrated for getting a spear as a reward over a two-handed weapon, and are more willing to attach different monster parts to any type of weapon, not just their “strongest” ones (the two-handed weapons). I am definitely curious how the fusions work with shields though, hoping to see a video on that soon! Loving the content man!

The most important takeaway from the formulas is the developers balanced fuse based on weapon type. If you fuse a White-Maned Lynel Mace Horn (+40 damage) to a spear it adds only 75% of that to the base damage (actually +30 damage). If you fuse the same thing to a two handed weapon it gives an extra 5% on top (actually +42 damage). One handed weapon damage is accurately reflected on screen. I understand wanting to display the fuse damage bonus without the modifiers. I don't get lying about the base damage on the display in the way they did, since it makes the damage MORE inaccurate not less. It could reflect the difference in damage per second, but frankly just giving the unmodified numbers does that just fine since the majority of weapon damage comes from the fused material. Really strange choices.

This fixes two problems: One is, in BotW people would pass over spears because of their incredibly low number even though their DPS is on par. Two is, if left as is, spears would be disproportionately affected by the Fuse system.

Interesting, for me the opposite to the intention has happened. I stopped using spear because they did so much less damage per hit than I felt it should do. Now i know why!

Babe wake up, new croton video dropped

Slightly unrelated but I was curious since the appearances of monsters' horns and the way the different monster types attack with said horns seem to correlate with each weapon type (Bokos look like spear heads and they ram at you,, lizals look like blades and they swing their heads at you,, etc) do you get some sort of a bonus for fusing them to that weapon type? As far as I can tell it just adds the same amount of damage to everything but I thought that would be kinda neat if it worked like that

I think the developers did this to estimate the damage per Dt where DeltaT is the time for one single hit of one-handed weapons, so in the same Dt, you deal more damage with a spear because has a faster hit rate eg (in 100 seconds, let's say you attack 100 times with a one-handed, 95 times with a two-handed and 125 with a spear)

I think it makes more sense if the calculations run backwards from how you did them. The shown number in menus is the raw attack, which is the weapon's base damage plus the fuse value of any materials on it. Then that's multiplied by a hidden scalar to produce a balanced true damage based on the weapon type. This is so the materials can have a consistent fuse value without making spears overpowered and two handed weapons irrelevant.

Meanwhile what this does is make you think that the fuse bonus is additive, and that by the time your fuse damage outweighs the base damage, claymores are just worse in every aspect and spears are the best. Set amount of damage per hit * more hits = massively more damage

Very glad this is the case, was thinking with the way fusing works spears would always be the best choice since they attack so much faster

I feel a better way to achieve this would be something similar to fallout new vegas where every weapon has its damage per hit and dps shown, so even if you see a weapon does 2 damage you might still use it if a high dps is shown

this makes sense, since fuse damage increases damage by a flat amount, faster weapons like spears would have their dps increase more than claymores. this is their way of balancing weapons ig

I feel like the developers would have been better off doing what they did for most other things and have npc after npc mention that spears are fast, but weaker and 2-handers are strong, but slower.

I'm pretty certain this system was implemented to balance fusions, since spears would be overpowered and two-handed weapons would be more of a burden if the additive damage was the same for all weapon types. Though I still would've preferred true damage be shown for weapons and fused materials.

Makes perfect sense. It'd be weirder if there was no multiplier for spears and two-handed weapons with the whole fusion system. Wish it wasn't hidden tho.

When I was researching stats to do this weapons, I found this out and I was honestly really shocked to find this out! I thought that maybe they wanted to do this to get people to use spears more, but the theory by another commenter about DPS might make more sense. And yeah, I wish we could view enemy HP again...

I believe part of why this change exists, is as a companion to the arrow indicators that show up when going to pick up a weapon (the one that shows you if a weapon is stronger or weaker). Spears had a tendency to show up as weaker even when the spear in question was 2 tier above the 1-handed or 2-handed it was being compared to

Is this the developers' attempt to make a sort of pseudo-DPS number? Like, is it taking speed into account and comparing how much damage over time a weapon does in comparison to the default (1x) rate of the one-handed sword? This is the best explanation I could think of

At least I know my 1 handeds aren't lying to me.

Glad your starting up again, looking forward to it!

It's probably done to even out the impression of the damage you deal over a longer time (i.e. spears have a faster folly of charged attacks). Because the spear feels stronger because of this, the number represents that feeling rather than the exact value. Alternately the displayed number was the initial intended damage but they slapped on a modifier at the last moment to balance weapons out a bit more. In example a spear that does the actual displayed number would destroy things too fast with a charged attacked.

I think you are overcomplicating the formula for fused/attack up. It's always true that (TrueDam = ShownDam / multiplier), regardless of if the weapon is fused or not.

I definitely thought there was something off with spears in this game. I always loved them because their range and speed give them great utility in skirmishes, so they should have felt really overpowered if they were as strong as they said this time. But they ended up feeling pretty similar to BotW regardless.

A lot of people are saying this is to show a more accurate actual dps amount, but I personally believe it’s a way to balance fusing. Given how fuse adds a flat damage increase to weapons, spears would use this flat damage amount way more effectively (+40 damage on 3 hits of a claymore is less than +40 damage on 7 hits of a spear). And they chose a hidden multiplier to do this while keeping the game simple.

In the damage calculator table i found a mistake: the horn of the silver boss bokoblin (the ring one with the 3 red bands tied around in a triangle-shape) has a fuse-damage of 37, but in that dokument it´s only 29.

Meanwhile I just kinda stick anything together that sounds like a good idea, then keep the lowest damage thing to burn through equipped until a boss fight requires otherwise. Since everything is disposable anyway, I don't really think much about the precision of the numbers so I don't grow attached to anything. Its like arming yourself at the toy section of a Dollar General lol

Well now we know why the champions tunic, nor other any gear, doesnt let us see health bar numbers anymore

This reminds me of most Monster Hunter Games where they use bloated attack values. For example a Great sword (a slow attacking weapon with meaty hits) would have like 960 attack Meanwhile a sword and shield (which attack fast with a lot of small hits) would have 280 attack In the end both have an actual attack value of 200 making them equal in strength I don’t get why developers tend to use bloated values, since those are just confusing

Before I knew this I always assumed that spears were by far the best weapon in the game, as most of your damage comes from fusing. I assumed 18 damage spear and a 32 damage fuse had a much higher DPS than a 25 damage 2-handed weapon and a 32 damage fuse. This multiplier makes spears less powerful than I through they were. I like that all the weapons have a niche because of this though, spears have the most range, swords let you use a shield and probably have the highest DPS, and 2-handed weapons have the fastest combo, so they can ragdoll or stun enemies the fastest. It seems to me like swords are the most powerful and 2-handed weapons are the least powerful now.

Honestly I didn't realized it but it worked for me lol. I use all 3 weapons types pretty equally, I try to have a full deck of all kinds of weapons for every situation.

Fun fact: they actually gathered the worlds best politicians to make the lies as believable as possible.

Another reason they probably did this behind the scenes is to not overcomplicate the fuse attack power shown on items. Because items fused to spears and two handed weapons are also affected by the modifier, if they showed you the true damage of weapons, the fuse attack power of attached items would be different for each weapon type.

It would've made fusing with spears broken and vice versa for heavy weapons, would've loved some indication tho, this video caught me by suprise, always felt like my spears were weirdly doing worse

Would love to see a master sword damage and fusing explained video!!

I waited for this one - was funny going through all this research ! Good video as always :)

How much dmg does the master sword do by base

One thing I noticed when watching people play BotW is people outright not using spears because the number is lower. Even though to me, it was obvious spears had the range and speed advantage that basically negates the low damage per hit. This is probably how they decided to fix that for those people.

Love your vids dude keep up the great work!

Man I felt like something was off when my 14 damage spear wasn’t killing a red boko

Croton you should do a travellers only run where you use the travellers gear and weapons in BOTW.

hey Croton what does the blue sword and orange sword symbol mean

I honestly dont look at numbers that much when picking weapons, my rule is that basically anything over 30 is fine, anything over 50 is pretty good. Regardless of weapon type. Then i mostly use one handed weapons because i like having the shield out and think it looks cooler. With only a few stops at hestu its not like you need to really optimize your damage or weapon durability usage. Especially with the royal weapon buff in totk its pretty easy to just go kill a few lynels whenever youre low on weapons or especially arrows.

Makes sense that they would balance out spears like that especially with the fuse ability. You're getting a huge percent increase on damage for spears, which will already do a LOT of damage with the increased speed over 2 handed weapons and swords.

So are superfused royal spears still better than superfused royal broadswords for flurry rush damage? I think so (11 hits vs 7), but idk, can someone confirm?

is there an armor piece that shows the health in numbers like the champion's tunic or divine beast helms did in BotW?

Are the bace values assoiated to a Dps run time calulation using normal attack strike speed?

Can you please explain how the master sword works in this game? I just don't know how it works.

Have you measured the actual swing speed of weapons. Would be curious to see if the multiplier is a direct representation of weapon hit speed (i.e. spears are exactly 1.33% faster than 1-handed) or if they're just rough representative estimates.

can you do one about the new weapon properties? (for example; the royal weapon's increased flurry rush damage)

damn, my main takeaway is that spears are even more useless than I thought

this is killing me, what’s the song used from 0:00 to around 1:40? thank you

Okay, for unfused weapons i understand. But what happens for fused weapons? Does a diamond give less than +25 to a spear, and a bit more than +25 to a 2 handed?

I think this is more to handle the fuse system. Since the damage of all fuses are flat regardless of weapon it leaves spears in a very powerful spot and 2hands in a weaker one. By lowering spear damage and raising 2hand internally you don't have to invent some weird system where fuse works different for different weapons. The fuse damage boost can be universal.

Okay but what song is playing in the outro??

How about the master sword? Does its damage change based on the target?

Pretty sure this is to balance the static numbers added by fuse. Adding the same damage to a spear that you would add to a 2h weapon would mean spears are broken.

But do charge attacks or jump attacks actually more damage or is it all placebo?

Do these multipliers change when enemies level up?

These are called “bloat values” and they’re intended to account for different weapon attack speeds. It’s more about relaying info about average DPS rather than exact damage per hit. But yes, it is a bit misleading.

does anyone know where in the game files this calculation is kept? I'm trying to make a mod that disables it so that the weapons show their true values.

dang! good to know for sneak strikes! I often switch to my biggest damage for those good to know I should probably use a 2 hander rather than a speario!

Ahh, I thought something seemed a bit off, and I did wonder why they removed the HP vision perk too. I guess I understand why they've done it. Thanks for the explanation.

where did you find that royal spear bro

I saw this in a Reddit post a while ago and it looks we're back to the old meta of two handed weapons like that in botw because of higher damage and the spin attack

I feel like the main reason this change may have been made was as a late in development balance issues where perhaps spears were too powerful, and there's some math to back it up. In breath of the wild, claymores were often the preffered weapon type. This was not only due to the damage number being very high, but because the "potential damage" was just strictly better then that of swords and spears. Take for example the soldier's set. The spear had 35 durability, and the sword and claymore have 25 durability. But th spear only deals 7 damage, with the sword dealing 14 and the claymore 20. That means picking up a soldier's spear would only add 245 total damage to your inventory, while the claymore would add a whopping 500 damage yo your inventory. Now, cut to tears of the kingdom, all the weapons are decayed, making all the base damage stats much more similar while having similar durabilities once again. Taking the same soldier's set, its shown damage is 4, 6, and 8 for the spear, sword, and claymore. The spear's durability is 25, while the sword and claymore have 17. This would bring them to slightly more similar potential damages, at a theoretical value of 100, 102, and 136. Where it goes wonky is with fusing. Because fusing adds the same damage and durability to all weapons, not only does the base damage matter alot less, but the base durability matters alot more. If you were to fuse a silver bokoblin horn to each one, the potential damage for the sword would be 1554, the claymore would be 1638, and the spear would be at a whopping 1750. Unlike breath of the wild, where the high potential damage of claymores was slightly balanced by them being a slow weapon type, having spears have the highest potential damage is alot more worrisome due to their high range and much faster attack speed. Spears would become the go to weapon for any scenario, which is definitely not what the developers intended, which likely led to them being nerfed in mid/late development TLDR: Tears of the kingdom's stats and mechanics would have led to spears being the de-facto best weapon type, likely leading to them being nerfed

Do you think you might do a video about how the Master Sword works in this game? I've seen a lot of confusion about how much damage it does when glowing, or when fused, or how much durability it gets when fused (if it gets any at all), etc., which is understandable when they don't show you the damage number at all in this game for the sword. Just an idea. Great video as always!

Yay another Croton stats vid! Thank you!

Thank you for sharing this. I've actually been over relying on spears and neglecting great swords because of my own calculations that also overestimated the DPS of spears, and I'm also reminded that some enemies might have armor like in the last game. I'm just going to use the displayed value as a overall estimate of how good the weapons are, rather than headache over if a 10 damage spear is better than a 20 damage club.

I'd love a video on the new materials, how they work with cooking, and where to find them.

So the new weapon numbers are affected in a similar way to the weapons of Monster Hunter?

I think this is mostly done because of fuse. If you fuse an extremely powerful Lynal horn to a spear, and it added the same amount of damage as it does when you add it to a greatsword, then the spear would just be better, since they attack so much faster.

IMO, the most important piece of info is that the damage added by fusion is being divided by the multiplier. If you take the game at its word, spears would be far and away the best weapons, since you'd be adding a huge, flat amount of damage to them. But as it actually is, fuse damage is reduced by 25%

I can't wait until you start you totk challenge run series.

its speed multipliers. They indicate a quasi-"Damage-per-second" as spears are faster and 2handeds are slower so we get this multiplier to show average damage across a multiple strick combo attack

Wait how did you figure it out, there's no way to see enemy health in totk

how the spear numbers actually work is divide 1.3268 from the spear then subtract by one and round up to the nearest number

But does anyone know what the master sword deals?

Ever considered the numbers show the DPS ( Damge per second) to reflect the convention in pretty much every RPG and therfore highlight the overall damage output rather than the on hit output?

It’s simple: this is damage per hit and DPS combined into one stat. Many games have this as separate stats, but they simplified it here. Spears are much faster than one handed swords, so the displayed value is higher than damage per hit. Two handed non-spears are slower, so the value is lower, because you will fit less hits per second. They don’t lower it much because when you do a charge attack, you are attacking much faster. There is no manipulation, just simplification.

ya this kind of upfront false numbers to try and get players to use different weapons was a wrong way to go about it if they think some weapon types are under used. but im fairly sure most people understand how each of the weapon types have advantages and disadvantages in the right situation, so idk why they even did it.

So basically the stats are closer to DPS than true damage now.

I think that the attack shown is the real attack power but the added invisible damage multiplyers

Botw or totk with only gear from hinox?

I think this is an attempto aproximate the damage to it's relative dps. A spear will do more hits persecond, and a two handed weapon will dealless, when compared to the one handed weapons. So the multipleirs help players visualize aproximatly how much damage per second they will be doing. I think this is a great way to help casuals without needing them to know what dps is.

“Apple Claymore”

Looking forward to the eventual video about the Master Sword. The game doesn't show a damage number at all, so I'm really wondering how it works. As for this, I don't get it. I already wanted to use spears for their long reach and speed, and I already didn't want to use two handed weapons (except very specific circumstances) because they're slow and leave me open to attack. Lying about the damages is totally unnecessary.

I guess it’s more like a DPS then a overall damage

What is a “hidden altercation” re:the description?

I keep seeing everyone talk about DPS like it’s what mattered in BOTW. What mattered was that the royal halberd was only half as strong as the royal claymore but only had 10 more durability, giving it only 1,300 points of damage before it broke where as the claymore did 2,080. That 750 points of damage really starts adding up in the late game when level 3 & 4 monsters start showing up. The royal broadsword only does 1,296 damage before it breaks, but single-handed weapons let you use a shield, which you can parry with as well as dodge. *All calculations are obviously Baden on BOTW data.

I've seen. Lot of videos on this lately, and I'd like to elaborate on another effect this system has on Weapon-on-weapon fusions. When a weapon is fused to another weapon, it actually adds a value equal to the base display value (before modifiers). An example would be if you fused a "10" damage spear to a 10 damage 1h weapon, the 1h weapon wouldn't do 17 damage, it would do the full 20 Likewise, if you fuse a "20" damage 2h weapon to a 10 damage 1h weapon, the final damage output is 30 rather than 31.