I’m not an expert but I wonder if increasing the nvg lenses ‘thicker’ could make it more zero point resistant because thin objects fare worse

You know is serious when whole game dev is explaining the pain behind it

the 5 states of Anton working on his game: 1. this is stupid, I will never implement that, because the engine wasnt build for that 2. Tries it, its awesome, makes a crude build that shows all the past flaws 3. Fixes year old flaws of the game to make the thing work 4. The thing works now, everybody loves it, but now they want more based on that thing 5. Return to step one I love your passion to make H3VR the best VR game out there :)

B like that sometimes

Dude, you are literally one of the, if not the most awesome and open game dev. Take all the time you need, take breaks, and take care of yourself.

Sorry you’ve hit this bump, I hope you can find a way around it. I love when you talk about the intricacies of game design, it’s so interesting to me.

I believe in you guys!

Figuring out how to deal with floating point precision for big worlds has always been an interesting thought experiment for me. I haven't been put in a situation yet to really try this, but one idea I've had is sort of similar to what some people have brought up before, like having the player be the origin. But the big issue with that is obviously having to update positions of every single other object's position every frame (or FixedUpdate... hmm) could be... undesirable for performance, among many other weird issues that will inevitable come up when retrofitting something like this in to an already developed game that's been around in active development for nearly a decade. What I had in mind is more so something like this. Let's say the entire in-game world is split into a 3D voxel grid, each voxel being... let's just say for example half a kilometer in length on each axis. This would represent our threshold. And if the player ever exits the current voxel they're in, it'd move everything in the world, including the player, in a half kilometer increment to shift everything near the player back closer to the world origin. That way it'd only do this update every once in a while if a player does cross this threshold. And maybe to prevent the player moving their head back and forth past this threshold to constantly shift things, there may need to be some kind of buffer in distance so that the player would need to travel for an extra few meters if they were to travel back the opposite direction. Either that, or maybe have a minimum time allowed to have passed before allowing the voxel shift to happen again. And I suppose one other issue that could come up is how the physics could potentially react to a sudden precision in physics change when things shift. Would dynamic physics objects that are just sitting still on a surface sort of jump up a bit when precision slightly changes on a voxel shift? Not sure, but in theory it potentially could. Now for Unity specifically... Well, if I recall correctly, Unity's built in occlusion culling and AI navigation might not play nice with things shifting around like this. So this could potentially be a dead end..? Not sure. -- ONE THING THAT POPPED UP IN MY HEAD JUST NOW, and didn't really think too much about this yet so idk how viable this is, and it's sort of a slightly overall different idea. But, what if on every Update() everything in the world is shifted to allow the player to be the origin, again similar the idea some people have mentioned here already. BUT. BUUUT. On the very start of every FixedUpdate() (the start being very important), every world object is repositioned back to normal (or alternatively, bright every object to a previously stored value just to make sure no precision loss on the conversion back), with world origin just being the normal origin, and then you let your physics process as normal. Update() represents every rendered frame while FixedUpdate() is an update that always happens at a fixed rate regardless of framerate, as you likely already know. And physics by default in Unity happens on a FixedUpdate and can be interpolated to match the actual game's update rate. If all the important logical and physics functionality can still behave as normal with the world being truly stationary, and then before the rendered frame starts to be calculated on Update() things get shifted temporarily to treat the player as Origin, maybe that could potentially solve certain visual artifacts of things being rendered at imprecise locations of a world... This was just an extreme spit-ball idea. No idea how viable it is. And potentially could be volatile if any bugs occur with this kind of system. And of course this idea would again be updating everything every frame, but could bypass potential physics and logic calculation issues with things moving around every frame. Obviously, there is no perfect solution, and most proposed solutions, including my own, would be quite a major undertaking to make sure NOTHING BREAKS. And I suppose that's a question you'd just have to ask yourself, is it worth doing something like this for specifically night vision? Though technically this could benefit more than just that, but night vision locked onto the head is probably the most notable of cases you've probably had so far. But yeah... It's an interesting situation. I wish you luck on this bugfixing adventure. Game development always finding new ways to throw curveballs on us game devs...

You make it look easy though

Always sucks. Take a break and look at it with fresh eyes, always works for me. You got this! :3 edit: in godot this kinda thing can be solved by recompiling the engine with doubled world coords (64 bit floats). Idk if unity has something like that but I assume it does?

Could you possibly make a simple multiplayer mode, the multiplayer mod is almost unusable, this includes using Hamachi. You would be doing people who want to play with their friends in this game a big favor. Most single player games, VR or not, instantly become hilariously fun when they have the option to play with their friends. Maybe sometime in the future? Of course if you take a break, after that.

Ah floating point numbers can be such a pain

In Assetto Corsa Modding they had also precision problems on the big maps like "LA Canyons". They implemented something called "double point precision", don't know what it really did, probably calculating the point twice. But it really helped, tho it was no secret medicine. It could only lessen the effecrs of precision loss. Have no idea how expensive this would be, as racing games are generally somewhat lite in performance. But maybe it could help.

I would absolutely play the heck out of a nvg tnh character.

Seeing you implement thermal and night vision in such an way has been pretty wild.

One thing I wanna just, like add to whatever "cool features to add at some time in the future" list you have. If you look up Midnight Brutality, they had these really, really cool range targets that had a beacon on them, they'd detect bullet impacts and light up to communicate to the shooter and R.O. that there was a definite hit. I always thought that was the coolest thing.

any way to make levels work like "cells" and load and unload parts, kinda like how Bethesda's engine does it? prob a lot of work for just night vision, but could allow for massive levels, but i can see that being a nightmare in itself to redo the whole level system

Dude, if you need a break, you can take a break

I wonder if this issue is in normal optics

I dont want to presume to know how easily it could be done but moving the scene around the player like a treadmill seems like it would keep the precision for night vision good where you want it (around the player).

GZ to 100k :)

I would imagine it's not possible to make these important numbers be relative to the players position? Especially since seething like a scope will only ever used near the player?

Excuses, excuses. I expect 7 free updates per week and each with at least 19gb of content and an overhaul to core mechanics.

Hey, could be worse. Could've pushed an empty file instead of an actual driver to prod.

I half expected him to take out a firearm and do a sound check irl 😂💀

"floating point" *physical flinch* "simulated camera" *foaming at mouth*

I don’t comment much, but I absolutely love H3VR maps and situations at night. It is perfect for VR!

Well on the brightside now you know the desert is a good place to stress test new additions

I got the job!!! And made a KZfaq account for my self step 1 to get h3vr is complete now to do the work and speaking of work take a break Anton you earned it 😃

Honestly, thank you for this insight, I'm currently exploring developing a semi-open world game in unity and seeing the issues I have to consider in very large environments is extremely helpful.

Would it be possible to set the game up like breath of the wild were it only truly visulises the things that player can see And hides the things you cant to save on processing?

No sound check.. guess I'll never know if my speakers weren't up too high :(

i hadn't even considered how much more extreme the effects of Floating Point Imprecision would be for something like H3, but it makes sense. Alot harder to get away with a little wiggle/jitter when the thing doing it is an inch off your face and in VR. best of luck, may the Machine Spirit work in your favor in this endeavor

how did you avoid these floating point issues in the return of the rotweiners and other big scenes?

Take all the time you need, and perhaps enjoy some weenies!

As an artist and (extremely) amateur coder, it is my sworn duty to remind you that for every block that puts you down makin it feel like there's no solution, always remember just how good it feels to finally press play and see that one thing that made your blood boil just simply cease to exist as your latest magnum opus has finally been realized. Keep it up bro, we love you and the dedication you always keep putting into your game till the end 👊

Maybe for a map design to work with the strengths and weaknesses of night vision, you could have a central dark area like a bunker or cave near the origin and have the outer parts of the map outside or better lit so you only need the nods where the floating point won’t screw you.

Unity be a cruel mistress to Anton.

congrats on 100k 😁😁

Man, you communicate and are more active than the next 10 game studios I could name combined. Even this video is communicating roadblocks you have run into during development. Much better than games that are silent for years before even letting people know what's up. Its appreciated man. Hope you guys are doing well.

HES WHAT!?

This week, i will not ask for a gas grenade update. Hope everything starts improving soon🙏🙏

I gotta say I have huge respect for you in making things in this game work. I've been developing a series of H3VR maps that are pretty far from release and every step of the way I think of how difficult it is to balance the performance, Unity 5.6.7f1 jank, and freaky oddities like what you're running into here with floating point precision. After working on my maps, I fully recognize how herculean of a feat Institution is in terms of aesthetics, performance, and gameplay. Doing things the cool hard way pays off though, the immersion is so worth it and puts it in a league of its own.

World's most dedicated solo dev. We are all thankful for your hard work!

easy, simply jiggle the nighvision camera in the opposite cadence to the floating point errors

I'm really excited for new flashlights and it's amazing in general to see how far this game got, it'll always be the number one VR game I never get bored with

I like the more technical nature of this devlog. Good luck with these issues.

When you get back to it could you add an extra few night maps?

Great explanation of precision loss. Take your time Anton were all on your side, whatever is best for the game I support it.❤

Doing gods work anton, love the game. Keep the work up but dont forget your own health!!