But they actually have good reason to do that. I mean, sort off.

Absolutely. What they did that planet where they manufactured a disease to keep them primitive and in perpetual agony was only one of the most vile things they've done

​@@TheRezroexplain why you think they have a good reason? I would put their desire for genetic control as another reason for irredeemableness

@@veggiet2009 They civilization was almost hunted down to extinction. To save themselves, they become demons people were afraid of. Through gradual takeover they destroy they enemies and try build system what in they mind would ensure stability and safety. It is worth to note that Dominion actually allow freedom of conquered civilisations, taking control over they collective security. What fun fact, Federation was also doing. Yes. It was involuntary but they were not as horrible as people believe. Even if they methods were harsh. In fact Cardassians completely misread them as conquerors and they own role in the system. It is worth to point out that Dominion was not destroying the planets, they targeted only the Starfleet. After peace was signed. Dominion was not making Federation problems through next centuries. Taking isolationist stance.

@@veggiet2009 they are irredeemable but if their lore is true this all started as a necessity because Solids are jerks. It then developed into a desire for control over everyone and everything. But being irredeemable now doesn’t mean they weren’t driven to said irredeemability. And I’m just kind of making this argument up as I go along so feel free to mention the information I seem to conveniently not know. lol

Dukat is space hitler. he should be #2 behind the borg queen.

Dukat is amazing, a really well developed villain - it's the depth which makes him so irresistible!

Dukat is most definitely evil,, but he does possess a certain amount of charm. A great character, and probably my favorite Star Trek villain.

I would also argue Dukat had one redeeming quality... Ziyal... his daughter, while sure the beginning of their relationship was frankly terrible, he truly grew to love her as a father, and you can feel sorry for him when she dies and his mind just breaks losing someone who he truly loves.

@@Glenn.Manueland hitler was a dog person, doesn't mean that he's redeemable. I won't agrue that Dukat isn't a great character but he's still space hitler.

I’d argue the people that created him and then dumped him in the middle of nowhere are irredeemable.

​@joermnyc Well, technically he's part of them.

@@joermnyc - what were they supposed to do with him? Pure evil? They didn't inflict him on the galaxy, Troi's shuttle crashing there was pure happenstance.

​@@williambell3304He was created as a sapient individual, and then abandoned forever to be alone. I've gotta say, his creators are way more evil and irredeemable. Even terminating him immediately, or upon departure, or at least leaving him the means to be able to painlessly end his own existence, would have been much kinder.

@AndrooUK 1. Armus is likely not being entirely truthful about the situation. He lies to the crew in other ways. He is supposedly evil incarnate and does not espouse reliability as a narrator. 2. Perhaps the other beings hoped he could be redeemed in some way later. 3. Leaving one evil being lonely, while certainly not the nicest choice, doesn't stack up to what others in Trek have done.

I feel a second list coming on...

*Duras. But yes, those are both good additions to the list.

After Star Trek: Generations, does the House of Duras even exist anymore?

@@user-fh6mc9du5n no. But then Dukat, Kai Winn and several others on the list have been long gone as well.

I thought the Duras were definitely gonna be on this list. They're as generationally awful as the Soongs. Moreso actually, we've never seen an honorable Duras.

Indeed. She did such a good job being the Bajoran Pope we loved to hate.

After her role as Nurse Ratchet in "One Flew Over The Cookoo's Nest", she was type cast.

@@surferdude4487 actually she has over 180 tv and film credits. She was very versatile and professional. The industry loved and tried to get her as much as they could. Sjhe also was very big doing off and on Broadway production

Amen to that.

She had a pure talent for playing horrible irredeemable villains.

Erza is a better Dax than Jadzia, for Erza at least keep her individually without being completely Dax. Jadzia was like whatever Dax want, I be it.

DAMN YOU, BERMAN!

@@bloodysimile4893 Yeah, but, that gave us the lesbian kiss.

True but they did that out of sheer fear of the potential horror a horrific bioweapon could unleash. Again.

I keep wondering, did they think that Ceti Alpha FIVE was the one that exploded? If so, then why bother checking?

"THIS IS CETI ALPHA FIVE!!"

yeah depth is needed for a great character not for redemption Dukat was not redeemable but still complex which is why he was a great villain

nothing quite gets the juices flowing quite like galaxy wide genocide🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I loathed Winn Adami. Always plotting and misusing faith. Reminds me of Islamic clerics in Iran or medieval popes.

It is for all of these reasons that Winn will always be known as Space Karen.

Her only redemming quality was that between them, the writers and actress really made me hate her. I've rarely disliked a character on TV that much.

@@jasonwalker9471Agreed. Very talented actress, definitely Joffrey levels of hate.

The character herself, as opposed to the Borg Queen version? She killed Maddox, yeah, but she was under the influence of Ohm's mind meld. Otherwise, the worst thing she did that I can remember is karaoke.

Slarr or the one on cesuts III ?

In a way, the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian order should have gone along with section 31.

You know you are irredeemable if you feel the need to tell Nazis they are not evil enough.

One of my favorite episodes!

Fajo: I STOLE IT FIRST! Hey, Starfleet, when I do I get my stuff back?

I don't know if being in charge of a brutal military occupation is something you get to be redeemed from. You are right in that his daughter did make Dukat somewhat less horrible... but that's not saying a whole lot.

His daughter got killed because he made the choice to join the Dominion so that he could have power again so he could force everyone to say he was better than them, she went against his plan for conquests which is what caused her murder. I don't get how they is "on his way to redemption"

The Prophets NEVER spoke to Winn. I can understand if that happens to a vedek but such a rejected person becoming Kai, that is blasphemous.

Bashir and Una are augmented, yes... but they're not Augments with a capital A. Neither one of them is a product of Project Chrysalis/Project Khan - both born numerous decades after any version of the experiments that created Khan Noonien Singh - and Una isn't even human, but Illyrian and an example of a species who is far more enlightened about the uses of genetic engineering and the required psychological attitudes to ensure no one repeats Khan & Company's behaviours.

Khan was an intersectional Augment suffering oppression. Kirk triggered him into self-harm with the Genesis Weapon, that BULLY. Chekov, please nod.

Right? The Blight alone should have got them to number 2. I guess they got a pretty sweet conditional surrender agreement at the end of the war

One has to differentiate between The Dominion as a whole and its individual elements. Similar to the fact that not all members of the Federation 100% back the ideals of the Federation so too are not all members of The Dominion a sworn force of evil. I have to agree on one thing though - the Founders were quite brutal when it came to stopping potential threats as well as keeping those down they considered worthless.

At least one Weyoun defected and showed a something like a conscience. So not entirely irredeemable.

Top 10 Weyouns list....

Weyoun redeemed himself by becoming Commander Shran.

He was cloned so if one was bad all would be just as bad except for the one who defected. I assume the Founders considered him defective anyway.

@whofandb They did, but who knows? Since the Founders tailor every aspect of them, including their psychology, Good Weyoun could be a more natural state if their alterations fail.

Refined ruthlessness is not something you often see in a villain.

Well... yes. Marc Alaimo was very charming in the roll. However, it's best not to forget that while a lot of Star Trek fans are centrists or lean left, a lot of right wing people love space travel (and thus scifi) just as much as anyone else, so there are a lot of right wing fan as well. Including hard-right fans that most of us here would call fascists. There have been many debates over episodes like TNG's The Drumhead, for instance, with many taking very different lessons from the episode than most of us do. So some people like Dukat specifically *because* he's a fascist, not in spite of that fact.

Kevin Uxbridge I’d say is a grey area. There’s no redeeming what he did. Not just wiping out that species but the power vacuum it would’ve created, especially considering we’re left to assume all their tech still exists. However, that self-imposed exile and his behavior at the end does leave the question of whether he would make things right if he could. I know it’s not a redemption but at least he regrets the action?

Yes, my first choice.

Did it ever explain why he wasn't able to think them back into existence the way he kept doing with his wife? To me he seems more powerful than even the Q. Pretty sure a Douwd could eradicate the entire Borg collective if it so wished instead of staying under the Borg's radar like the Q did.

We are not qualified to be his judges. We have no law to fit his crime.

@@Blue_rosetx it’s not but I feel it’s implied bringing them back isn’t so easy. Because it would be the same with his planet. Did he bring his wife back or was it an incredibly realistic fantasy. I would argue while he is nearly omnipotent the Q would be superior. I mean, Q has changed history more than once and put it back. So perhaps Kevin just doesn’t have full control of his powers, it was that fit of rage and sorrow that wiped out The Husnock. So if to access his full power requires strong emotion that might be why. Or killing and resurrecting is just the line for some reason. Then there’s the possibility that despite his sorrow and regret he doesn’t want to bring them back. Perhaps part of his self-imposed exile is also coming to terms with the fact he did it but also knows he will never undo it.

Dukat definitely takes the full breadth of "Everybody is the hero of their own story" and runs with it.

What was said was that the Temporal Cold War and all the attempts to edit the timeline, that the timeline is somehow fighting back, so instead of removing the Eugenics Wars from history, it keeps getting pushed back. Someone's attempts to cancel the Eugenics Wars just delayed the conflict.

AND the changelings DID want to either enslave or kill the entire galaxy based only on their hatred for solids. A hatred based on (if we actually believe her of course) the actions of a very few species. We also don't know of the details in that story, the changelings might have contributed to the original conflicts for all we know.

@@Growly. Exactly. History is written by the Victors and I suspect those species are no longer with the Gamma Quadrant in any meaningful way. Victory was literally life and they lost

Kevin did a terrible thing, but he acted in a fit of rage brought on by grief. He wasn't necessarily evil. After all, he _could_ have swatted the Enterprise like a bug.

I think Emperor Georgiou was left out because her atrocities were in the mirror universe

Everyone in the Mirror Universe was horrible. Remember how the non humans acted in the Mirror Universe in DS9.

Too much of a girlboss.

@@filippofittipaldi8050 Miles was pretty much the same

Bro... every leader in the mirror universe is Space Hitler.

Based on her behavior throughout the show and then her older-self’s behavior in the finale I’d say both Captain Janeway and Admiral Janeway deserve to be on it. Admiral Janeway for changing the entire course of history on a galactic scale to such a degree that the future DTI didn’t pick it up and try to correct it, irredeemable?

@@RunfromDangerMan DTI not correcting it is just a choice they made so they could finish the series. It's a big cheat on their part.

@@Growly. oh of course it is. The classic over-used trope of things working until show runners need it to not work. I’ve always been able to separate lazy writing from an actors performance. Even if the writing was lazy so they could close the series, Kate Mulgrew did a fantastic job and is the 3rd best captain in my opinion. But for the spirit of the video. What Admiral Janeway did was inexcusable. Captain Janeway not preventing it also was. However in real life, you’re correct. The problem is the writers needed the DTI to not do their jobs so that the series can close.

@@Growly. and if it makes things better, the only reason I chose her is because I couldn’t think of any Admirals that fit the irredeemable category. A lot that were bad at their job and made poor decisions, but none that I would say are irredeemable. And I wanted to choose someone I didn’t expect others to choose. Which is why I put this comment after asking if Badmiral Cartwright was in it. After asking that I thought “nah, that choice is too obvious. There must be others.”

@@RunfromDangerMan I agree with you. When she talked to hazard she claimed she had never broken the prime directive, but she did it a lot and made many decisions (like allying with the borg) that i disagree with

He wanted glory for Cardassia, which slowly turned into hate of everyone who had an edge on them. The only thing that could've redeemed him was his daughter and she got killed, which was the final push into madness for him.

As does the Obsidian Order. I guess Section 31 should have been "Secret Services"

He even says to her when she's KO'd that he was sorry that it has happened.

Yeah, but it's not like he tried to fight it either.

​@@stream_gene It was a classy touch, sure, but I don't think that makes up for... y'know... murdering her.

I read somewhere that there was no point of having a joined species if you didn’t examine the symbiont moving onto another host. I also read that behind-the-scenes she wanted to work on less shows, and they refused. In retrospect I, personally, thought they had brought Jadzia as far as they could, and I felt that Ezri was a very cool addition to the show in its final season. If I would have known the behind-the-scenes stuff at the time, I would’ve been pretty annoyed by it. I also felt as a show DS nine was extremely brave in killing a main character. It added so much weight to the storyline that it would be weird if it hadn’t happened. Start truck has killed many minor characters, and, of course, enterprise kill trip on the very last episode that took place in a holiday deck, which could very easily be undone. The death of Jadzia was a big deal! In the books, I think that Ezri died, and Julian ended up staying with the male host. I think that would’ve been interesting. I know you couldn’t have done it back then, but it would’ve been a very cool storyline if Dax had moved onto a male host. The interaction with Worf would’ve been epic!

@@emk120Don't forget Tasha Yar. Not exactly the best Star Trek tradition. I think what was worse with Jadzia though that in the retrospective parts of "What we Leave Behind" there were no clips of her, that was cold.

Kevin did a terrible thing, but he acted out of rage due to his grief. After all, he could have swatted the Enterprise like a bug.

@@DavidLS1 : Is there an answer there? 😏

@@jimg5669Yes. Kevin is redeemable. The number of people he killed matters less that the fact that he felt remorse for his action.

@@DavidLS1 : But the number is huge... in universe ~50+ billion. That's a tough row to hoe. Alternately... does it factor that they were all complete twats?

Well, there's the one in Strange New Worlds, right?

Prodigal Daughter

She states at one point that "she" (that drone body) comes from a species with a different designation.

@@williambell3304 can't argue with that.

We are Borg. We like to speak to your manager. Resistance is futile

And the maquis, though some of them went to far, had a right to defend their home. Homes that was given away by a (in that situation) heartless government, to an even worse one.

lol i see what you did there ... brilliant

Available on level 13😉

GLaDOS FTW!

For the good of all of us, except the ones who are dead! -- Honestly, the song fits them pretty well.

No. Dr Soran was a 'lost soul', like Anorax from voyager. He lost his family, his world. Then, by a twist of fate, he could get it back! Or just 'live in the moment', literally. Only to be ripped out of it by would-be saviors. By his reasoning, if he got back into the Nexus, back to his family before the Borg, all the beings he killed would've never died. Yes it's twisted, but not outright evil.

​@mrandmrsduquette1904 his methods were pretty awful.

@@mrandmrsduquette1904 A more interesting Generations would have Picard visit Soran, restored to his whole self, in the Nexus and convince him to go stop himself.

@@scockeryYES! That's what I thought would happen.

@@mrandmrsduquette1904 the man who killed Jim Kirk is truly irredeemable. (Of course, the Borg resurrected Jim anyways...)

So real

I had that exact same thought, too. lol

Also, why are they called "butt bugs"? Did I miss something in that episode?

@@michaeltortorice9876 you didn’t miss anything. They were called that as part of the act making fun of conspiracy theorists. It was a funny bit, but it would have been nice to get an explanation of why they think it’s butts. Sorry for taking so long but no, you didn’t miss anything.

They were Goa'uld before there were Goa'uld! TNG came first. 😁

Yeah and everyone seems to forget that the US used their nukes specifically targeting civilians in WW2. While most experts agree it saved more lives than it ended compared to if the war had gone on, I'd say targeting civilians is despicable. This was of course also explored in the Voyager episode Jetrel (aka space Oppenheimer) when Neelix asked why they couldn't have used the metreon cascade somewhere uninhabitated just to show how dangerous it was without specifically targeting people. Jetrel said his government felt the same was as the US did. Were they right? We'll never know.

She doesn't speak for trillions, she IS Trillions. The sum totality of the hive mind speaking through one shell. That said, the Borg were more effective without a face. Much more alien.

The concept of the Borg Queen makes sense for a hive mind trying to figure out how to handle repeated losses to a technologically inferior enemies, where their only seeming advantage is their individuality. Plus you need something to prevent the Mass Effect 2 Geth situation of ending up in an internal process civil war when consensus can't be reached on the correct answer to a problem.

@@anvos658I feel like the Borg Queen is like a 'living vinculum'. The vinculum processes Borg thoughts on a single vessel. She does it for the entire Collective. Hence her line in STFC, "You imply a disparity where none exists. I AM the Collective."