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One of my favourite Artisan videos - Jordan talking to camera teaching us things. I miss the old videos of Jordan on the tools too.

From the (admittedly limited) research I’ve done, one of the big advantages - at least for me - of the GivEnergy vs. Tesla is the ability to control the unit offline using something like GivTCP, rather than relying on the manufacturer’s cloudy platform. GivTCP can then also be used with something like Home Assistant to run automations you’ve set up.

Great job and very detailed and important information 😊 Thanks a lot. EG from Portugal

Ahh Another great Artisan Electrics video

Nice one Jordan - you is the man! Sorry for not subscribing to the channel before, but your nudge worked... Anyway, thanks for sharing your insights and knowledge. I'm finishing my L3 C&G and it's great to see what quality looks like. ATB Connor

Another great video from Artisan...

Thank you so much for this extensive and informative video! I’m looking to add solar, battery storage and EV charger and this has answered so many questions I had! I’m glad I found you on KZfaq and have subscribed, so that I can keep up to date. Keep up the great work!!

Excallent overview and great story teling

For those on the nerdy side the ability to integrate the storage system into other home control systems is very useful information. I have a givenergy AIO which is linked to homeassisant, that opens up all sorts of weird and wonderful options to divert energy without being tied to a particular eco systems. One example is that in my install when the battery hits 95% state of charge (but only between sunrise and sunset) then the dehumidifier (on a zigbee smart plug) and air conditioning (mitisbushi) turns on in heat/cool mode depending on the time of year and internal temp of the house, those then turn off once the battery hits 100% if the electric car is plugged into the zappi charger and charging via solar divert.

Those installations look really smart. I always point people to your channel about solar ;) Great work and thanks for sharing

Great informative vlog. Thank you.

Hi Jordan Great video once again have you ever thought about using Fox Ess equipment and battery storage they have a wide range of single phase and 3 phase . the KH goes up to 10.5 kW on Single phase with a maximum on ECS 4800 41kw

on my consumer unit, my critical loads are on a separate bus powered from the eps output of the inverter - but critically I included a bypass switch, which allows maintenance or failure of the inverter to keep my critical loads running directly from the grid - which most sparks seem to completely overlook

Great video Jordan very informative 👍🏻

Amazing technology 😊

An excellent video. I learnt so much, thank you

Hi Very informative video. I'm going for a full Enphase based AC coupled solution with 2x Battery 5P The solar panels are designed exclusively for Enphase Microinverters, so I think it will be one of the best integrated solutions that suits my needs! Emergency power supply and Battery back-up are things that will be available in the future with the Enphase solution for the UK (lagging behind US etc). Like your work - everything is done neatly and to spec. - would have asked you to quote but we are a long way away! Keep up the great work - you are a great example to the industry

Another quality video Jordan... I've recently made an enquiry using the open quote application on your website & it is excellent.. Although I have to admit exactly as you suggest due to busy work commitments I've missed a couple calls from you following up.. I'll try get back to you ASAP..

We are happy with our dual powerwall system and the highest load I have seen the house draw from them is just over 7kW (we have gas heating).

In Germany / Switzerland E3DC has a pretty cool system DC side connection, backup power and scalable. Long warranty. Combined with Solarmanager it is the perfect system to optimize Solar usage

Just diy installed an independant off grid system. 6 panels and 5kwh storage for most things except oven and hob. Consumption gone from 8kwh a day to around 1kwh a day. Use an air fryer rather than an oven! Makes a huge difference.

Hi, great informative video! Currently I have a large garden shed with solar panels, and I generate some good really power, particularly in summer. I'm now looking to store some of that power for the days when there's less sun. I have an Alpha ESS Smile B3, with 2.9 kWh battery storage. I don't know anything at all about the unit and was wondering if I could just use this for simple storage and plug an extension lead into it? I don't need to export any power to the house, it's just for ad-hoc use in my shed. Hope you can advise on this. Many thanks.

Fantastic video Jordan and a great insight into battery storage. Having watched the install videos this is a great way to explain the differences in the systems. Top work. Perhaps you could do a video on how you integrate the EV chargers into an island mode system and the nuances of the earthing set ups. 👍🏻👍🏻

Great video. I recently attended a talk about the grid setup and you’d be surprised how long it takes to adjust the power output from coal/biofuel stations. It often takes weeks. It’s gas which is used to adjust for variations in load during the day as it’s the only method where the power output can be changed quickly enough. That’s where battery storage systems really help.

I am in Far North Queensland, Australia. I have 13kw solar and a 16kw Goodwe battery system. We generally use about 800Wph through the night. That lasts us through the night. We generally have a full charge by 1pm. Plus its a cold start (does not need mains to start inverter) and will power us during a mains outage. As we have cyclones its good to keep us running.

One thing about the Tesla that wasn't mentioned if you have solar and that is that the gateway also builds up a memory of usage - amounts, time, etc. it also takes in weather forecasts. For example I have mine set to the Octopus low tariff 00:30 to 04:30. When I first had it installed i was worried when some mornings it hadn't pulled in much power overnight. I ended up speaking with Tesla support in Europe somewhere only to be told that the gateway was smarter than me. Based on the next days anticipated solar it might fill the whole battery or not add anything. Hey ho it's spot on and saves you filling the battery at night only to find that you are exporting solar energy because you forced the battery to charge. There are days when I thought it had got it wrong only for the sun to come out later in the day and fill up the battery. Its brilliant!

Good morning, I’m looking at a battery system, was looking at giv energy battery system but also seen the new Tesla Powerwall 3 battery system, which system is better?, down the line will be looking at solar as well

Can you fit a Tesla power wall in a cupboard in an apartment? The consumer unit is located in the cupboard, and has enough physical space etc

Decent(ish) overview. Can’t remember if he mentioned the PW2 is the only temp controlled battery. AIO are only rated for their 13.5KWh storage at room temp. You see people online implementing their own thermal blankets or even heaters to try to stabilise their temp over winter. So far as I know AIOs still aren’t stackable like PW. If you go by some of the horror stories online and several of the installers I’ve spoke to, AIOs have had pretty bad beta software problems. BMS issues with unexplained drops in SoC and need for recal/balance. Updates can be a pain (requiring physical usb sticks to plug in), commissioning can take ages, and I’ve heard lots of installers just regret ever getting involved with AIOs A big big part of your battery/ecosystem choice is the software. Then again, it’s hard to make an impartial informed decision here. Tesla is pretty much, click and forget.

Am an electrical technician and just finished installing my own solar system, at my house, here in wild Africa. And I think there is now 10 houses with solar in this town. Well, we do not have your fancy systems here at all. Tesla is way to expensive (even for a well-off middle-class family). Electric cars...in about 10 years maybe. Jip, we're watching the world from the sideline. Hope to get involved with some playtime sometime.

DC Coupled will charge the battery from the panels if the grid feed fails (island mode)

I’d say your first step in planning for either or both of solar and batteries is to install a monitoring system like Open Energy Monitor so you can discover what your usage patterns really are before investing in something that is incorrectly sized.

I’ve been looking at the FranklinWH it allows a generator to be attached. I have solar and a wind turbine. I want both attached to the battery system.

A very well presented video packed with useful information. In fact so much information that I'm now even more confused than I was before I watched it ;-) I live in a highly efficient Passivhaus with minimal active heating, and already have a grid-connected 2.6KW PV array - excess power diverts to water heating. There's EV charging to consider as well. So, two big puzzles for me: (1) Is there any point in adding battery storage in the Scottish Highlands? Winter days are *very short* & often overcast, so you wouldn't generate much power to store. In mid-summer it only gets dark for 3-4 hours, when grid power is cheap-rate, so batteries would be semi-redundant. (2) I'm installing a (semi-experimental) micro hydro generator. If I'm lucky it'll generate ~250W for most of the year. If I installed batteries, could I charge them from the hydro generator, as well as from existing PVs? The hydro generator alone may make battery storage more viable. But return on investment would surely be **many years**.

We would be interested to know what you think of the power-wall III. I believe this integrates several components of a solar/backup and/or virtual power plant contributor system (VPP). Is this correct? Also, I believe the very last remaining coal-powered plant in the UK is to be retired very shortly (other YT video I watched).

Very informative video - Thanks. The choice of backup duration has to be an informed choice. I bet there is a tendency to go for over-kill. We live in an area where the power infrastructure is beginning to age. There have been a number instances in the last twelve months where underground cables have faulted (usually exploded) causing outages. If you live a short distance away the actual fault the outages tend to last a couple of minutes with a few further shorter breaks while the DNO tries to isolate the fault to a specific 11kV section and then switch out. You're likely to be without power for 5-10 minutes while they do that. However, if you happen to be unlucky and on the faulty section itself, you could be down for quite a few hours while the exact location is found and then a dig done to conduct a repair. The majority of outages for most people are likely to be due to this kind of fault, either short or a couple of hours. Of course more complex faults may occur (thirty years ago we had a three day outage due to weather induced faults). If you are rural, then your supply may be via overhead cables at some point. You likely suffer more frequent outages. In widespread faults, you could be at the back of a very long queue. The amount of backup or full-home backup you want to pay for needs to consider the rate of faults and the amount of time you want to ensure a partial or full supply for. There seems to me to be little benefit going for massive mount of off-grid time from battery. If you need that, then surely a system that supports a final choice of a generator backup to support critical load, even if it is a plug-in portable geny. That will likely be far cheaper I would have thought although it gives additional equipment needing maintenance. Simply, how much do you want to pay to be immune to edge events?

Have to seen the sunsynk 16kw hybrid inverter? Its the one that interests me the most at the moment. I believe it has UPS backup capability and is compatible with lots of different battery systems. Would be great for my house thats got an air to air heat pump and an instant water heater. My fuse box is in an attached brick shed thst doubles as a data closet for me. The pylontech rack mount batteries + this sunsynk inverter next to the fuse box would be a great solution for me. Just need to win a modest amount on the lottery to get it installed 😅

Good information.

So if you have 2 Tesla batteries can you then have the cooker installed on the backup ?

With the new BS PAS 63100 Installing batteries in a loft is now a no no. It also makes it difficult to install them anywhere within a house, and from how I read them even an integral garage. Looks like they will have to be on external walls or detached buildings.

I thought you needed Eddi to do telemetry? I would have bought Libbi, but I want whole house backup, and I refuse to buy Tesla, so I am looking at Givenergy. Do you know if it has Modbus output? If so, I can integrate it with my Loxone smart home.

I have 2 PW2s stacked because of available space on the external wall. In your example would it not have been possible to leave space to the right for a second unit?

Any thoughts on the specs of the Tesla PW3? I understand the power output will be much higher.

Good install with the Tesla Powerwall except the battery is less than 1 metre from a dwelling doorway so does not comply with BSI PAS 63100

Nice video as usual, do enphase deserve a mention? just had installed with battery great bit of kit no back up yet though they supposed to be releasing later this year and there latest car charger over in the US can do car to home which is a game changer if you invest in a EV and don't need to have a large set of battery's

Hello Jordan, nice video, but how are you address the people who cannot afford complete systems. Do you have a plan for people to build up a system over 5 to 10 years? So that these people can do it piece meal style. Do you offer this kind of service to people so they too can see way to get to net zero?

@artisanelectrics Thank you for another great video! But I was not able to determine from the video: Is the Tesla whole house backup a 3 phase system? Or how can a 3 phase whole house backup system be implemented? Thank you in advance.

really like your work. i wish more people take pride in their work and expect electricians like myself to spend more time to make the installation look incredible instead of doing it in certain amount of time.

how long does it take too get a return on investment of batteries and solar panels ??

I’d be interested to see more similar videos on the different systems. I went with an enphase battery storage system as due to roof angles solar isn’t really viable. 3* 5kw batteries with total output of 11kva or 18kva for 10 seconds which is huge. 5 micro inverters built into each battery which enables each to run very efficiently at 90% round trip efficiency. Later this year I hope to get the off grid option when they release it and possibly adding a 4th battery which is the maximum.

My 16+ kW Victron system can do everything from all of these system via VRM and free programing ...No limits in Battery storage or input from Wind or Hydro ;) Everything is open to be adjusted, even your solar forkast or wind can help your batteries..

How about modular batteries?

IMHO having done lots of research and many calculations the only reason anyone can possibly justify battery storage is as a UPS . We've had one power out in 25 years. Economically it's impossible for anyone to justify a battery storage system especially when you cost it as an investment. I'd love to be persuaded otherwise with actual calculations.

can i back feed with a inverter if i turn off the main braker

GREAT REVIEW OF INFORMATION. DETROIT

Thank you host for sharing your work experience, I hope there will be a translation of traditional Chinese, thank 🙂🙏🙏

So Jordan, you popped over to Asia for a proper break, now you're at a position where you'll be rivalling the likes of Which by next year - producing proper on the ground content! Happy 2024 bud!

Do you leave the pme connected earth in place when you add the earth electrode or are you removing that and relying solely on the T.T? I seem to recall a video Cory did a short while back where he had an off grid set up but removed the TNC-S and used the T.T only.

Can you fit a full system ie solar panels, battery etc in Northampton and are you able to fit Tesla Powerwall 3 yet?

Are you talking about a Tesla gen 2 with 5 kw output? I think gen 3 is much larger

Fire detection and sprinkler system.

The idea of the Tesla back up sounds amazing and I’m sure in practice it’s great too. But for the money you shell out for it, surely you don’t have that many power cuts to really benefit from it? I’ve owned two different homes in 7 years and never had a power cut and anyone I know that has, it doesn’t last that long really.

Jordan , Just found your channel , really helpful vid - clear and well presented. THANK YOU. Would be really helpful if you could do a summary of where these key components ( batteries and inverters) are made … I am not alone in trying to avoid ‘Chinese made’ because anything made in China is using coal fired electricity generation - China burnt 4.4bn tonnes of coal in 2023 which is expected to grow by +36 million tonnes in 2024; by contrast U.K. burnt 4.6million and -25% v 2022. Coal is set to be completely phased out in the U.K. from Oct 2024. Soooo the irony of buying Chinese made batteries made using coal to store clean energy is the ultimate oxymoron … Any help on this supply ethics is greatly appreciated - thank you

I'm very pleased to see Libbi, GivEnergy and Tesla batteries. All are quality and should be recommended over the low end Chinese rubbish brands that litter the industry!

How long do you have to wait for a return on investment with a battery system in the UK? Here in Finland, the battery's payback period is longer than the battery's estimated lifetime.

Tesla Powerwall 2 current price £8,500 - £9,500 inc. No solar panels. 3 bedroom houses are the most common UK household size and will need 10 to 13 panels (350W) which will cost £9,000 to £12,000 on average. Total cost around £20,000 ?

The first thing is to get your smart meter to work. Easier said than done: mine has been offline for over 4 years.

All great if u can afford them then afford Artisan to install afterwards.

Nice install - Shame about all the external cables.

For these really big PV systems it would be nice to see you get an opportunity to install a C&I battery ESS system rather than expand these smaller home systems to the max.

I just had a bid for a 7kw solar array and 13kw battery installed for £15000

Does Zappi talk with Solaredge?

What stops someone rocking up at night and removing your Power wall, is there any serial lock that's registered with the installer.

What's the preferred battery chemistry for whole house backup batteries at the moment? Are the lithium ones still limited by charge cycle degradation if you charge & discharge them daily to take advantage of Economy 7 or other types of plans?

Thanks

I would like you to look it if battery is a long term good option, for me I'm 50/50 if there worth it. 1, there expensive and have what a 10 year shelf life, 2, and the big point is if were looking at a 5 to 10year payback and the justification of most is cheap overnight tariffs to charge them, realistically how long will these last once most of he country is running an EV or solar battery, i think the price difference between in and off peak will be much much lower as off peak isn't off peak when 50% of the country are charging EVs in 5 years time overnight, you loose huge payback incentive there when you cant charge off peak, 3, export prices are now around 15pkwh, not like a few years ago were it was 3p so selling back is worth now 4, tariffs like octopus flex that act sort of like grid battery with flexible tariffs so you dont need on site battery, i think if you have a huge budget then why not get battery but most are doing solar to save money not be paying something back for 20 years and I'm not always convinced batteries are now the best option for most people having small or medium arrays put up its just adds to much to the upfront cost and takes to long to recoup it, then the added potential of battery replacement at huge cost in 10 to 15y time do they really, long term save anything if your replacing them i dont think they do you might save 7k inthe next 5 to 10 years but then it will cost you that to put a new one in when it dies, its an intresting topic about longevity of battery storgae

How long on average does the G99 take to come through?

Why do you need a smart meter? I have battery system and my smart meter mostly says + or minus few watts. Because that's how my battery storage systems work

I will need some batteries in my place soon. Everyone will have GFG in their home, a gravity generator that will meet your energy requirements, completely off grid.

Smart grid is all well and good assuming you can actually get a smart meter fitted as it would appear that 3ph ones are non existent ....

GivEnergy is 6kw import export not 5kw

What battery would you recommend for a 3 phase house? Would be good to have full backup on all 3 phases.

Very interesting video, thank you. Just wondering why you fitted a PV generation meter in the GivEnergy installation when there is one already fitted in the Gateway?

I am completely new to this so please excuse the newbie. What is the expected life span of these units. To me it seems like a massive financial investment, so I would be looking for it to be a expected 20 year + life span. Not unless there is a spreadsheet or calculation that can show return on investments. In my situation, I would want a roof mounted solar array to feed the battery. I am not too fussed about selling electricity back to the network, but if I were to invest this sort of money, I would like to see enough monthly savings to pay for the original costs within 50% of the life span of the equipment.

Not the current LiFePO4 batteries, but the Natrium Ion Gen2 prismatic batteries, they are starting to produce at large soon, will be very safe and perfect for storage in a loft. New software for the inverters is required, though.

Cracking, another upload from 'Artisan Electrical Advertising Services Inc'.

In a nut shell, if you got plenty of cash and youre not moving in the next 10 years go for it probably break even pending ypur usage. Orherwise forget it

An enjoyable (extended) breakfast watch. Don't suppose you fancy a working holiday down here in Pembrokeshire anytime soon? :-)

How come you don't support Victron? Isn't it a UK business?

Why are home battery systems so expensive per kWh compared with car batteries of similar capacity?

The start up costs are just far too expensive. It would take at least 10 years to break even and by that time there will be a question mark over the degradation of the storage batteries over this time period. Can you honestly see the average three bedroom house in the UK spending this high cost and have the space to install all this equipment?

Grid outage ! Power cuts ! Where do you live ? I can understand if your remote somewhere . But we have had 3 power outages in 5 years lasting a total of 20 minutes. Worrying that you’re concerned about fire and batteries in the same sentance ! We used to charge batteries in flame proof bags for our remote control cars when we were kids as they could catch fire !!!

Probably a silly question but why is the Tesla "whole of house" if it sh*ts it's pants at a heavier load like an oven? (genuine question). great content as always, Jordan. Also, how does 3 phase supply affect this particular system? Cheers again

That all sounds well and fine, but who has that kind of money, from what I’m seeing you have a hundred grand worth of stuff, just so you can run a few lights and maybe a fridge during a power outage. During power outages there is no internet or tv, so no need to even try to run that stuff. Nobody is going to try to run their washer or dryer, or even the dishwasher during a power outage. We live in South Florida and typically lose electric for a couple weeks after hurricanes. We keep a small $500 dollar generator in our shed, that we fire up during outages to keep the fridges on and charge up our flashlights, maybe 5-8 hrs a day, (3-5 gallons of gas per day). Your simply not going to run air conditioning, or pool heaters during that time. We did that for many years and survived just fine. 5 yrs ago we converted our standard Florida home to net zero. We sealed the home, and added insulation, ( cost around $2000 bucks). We added a solar system on the roof, ( cost $20,000 dollars). It’s grid tied, so on a sunny day we generate near twice what we use in electricity, so on rainy days, and at night, we take back and use the excess power we sent back to the grid, ( no storage needed). We don’t pay anyone anything for electricity, ( used to be $400/month). During an outage, we simply disconnect from the grid, ( with a special legal switching system). And during the day while the sun is shining, we generate all the electricity we could ever use, to run everything in the house. Of course there is a small battery bank to obsorb the ups and downs as clouds go over, but it isn’t very big, and didn’t cost $12,000 dollars, ( about 2 grand of lithium batteries in our garage). To get us thru the nights, and cloudy rainy days, we just bought a couple big water tanks and placed in our garage. They were around $200 bucks each at home depot. We added a heat exchanger in the attic, along with a small circulating fan to keep the air moving thru the heat exchanger and ductwork in the house. During the day the sun powers our chiller that cools the water in the tanks down, ( water is a great energy storage medium). The home of course has a regular air to air hvac system, but because of the water cooling system, the run time on the big hvac system is cut in half, ( yes the main hvac system still works via the solar power, but only during the day when the sun is shining). Total cost of that thermal energy system was under $2000 dollars, I built it myself, ( it’s not even close to rocket science, any do it yourself person can build in a few hours). After the sun goes down, the cold water circulates the water thru the system keeping the house comfortable, ( since the main AC can’t run at night. I only need enough battery to keep the circulating fan and the small water pump running until around 10 oclock at night, ( it’s always cool enough in the house by then, were we need nothing, till the next day around 11:00 am. By then with the sun on the panels powering the chillers, the water is cold again, and everything repeats. On cloudy days we don’t need the main ac system, so all the energy from the sun, ( very diminished obviously because of the clouds), is just enough to run only the chillers and a few lights, and keep the battery bank charged. Of course it’s a really rainy day, we break out our little generator, to keep the battery bank charged so everything continues to work. I see all these KZfaqr’s promoting all these energy solutions that cost somewhere between $100-$150 k. My system out does any of those systems, and we only spent $30k in total for everything, converting just a regular everyday Florida home built in the 90’s into a true net zero home. In addition, we can survive just fine thru any power outage. In the winter we convert our water system to heat instead of cold, ( just by flipping a couple valves). We havn’t needed to use any heating in the home at all thru the winter three years in a row now, ( but obviously living in Florida our winters are mild). And no homes down here have natural gas, ( that’s an up north thing), but our solar system could easily power a gas furnace, with maybe a little more battery storage, just enough to keep the blower going. Obviously there is not as much sun up north, so a small generator might still be needed for those really crappy days, ( enough to charge the battery bank every day anyway, but you shouldn’t need 4 powerwalls to do that. I don’t really care what others think, if you have a big bag of money go for it. I’m just saying if your creative, you can come up with your own solutions, don’t follow the shiny object they call solar, and net zero, and just follow like a puppy dog to what some of these people are pushing, ( they make money off of you), way more than you can possibly imagine.

Nit picking but peaker generation is not coal. Peakers need to start stop quickly and coal needs hours to raise steam. Apaarently , back in the day of 100% coal peaker plants were running just waiting to be connected.

Smart meters don’t work in my area. What’s the point?

peaker plant will be gas

You’re the bear grills of solar that’s for sure

The videography is good. You shouldn’t be wearing that coat though. At the start of the video it’s making a lot of noise as you move around. Watching and adjusting your levels as you film will help. All good