#119

Рет қаралды 36,226

Күн бұрын

Original release date: 7/13/20
Terry Real, a renowned family therapist and best-selling author, helps people create the connections they desire in their relationships. In this episode, Terry describes how his upbringing with an abusive father forged his path to become a therapist, develop his Relational Life Therapy (RLT) framework, and write I Don’t Want to Talk About It-a book that reveals the hidden legacy of male depression. Terry discusses the link between childhood trauma and the deep-rooted shame, anger, and depression, which can result in feeling disconnected. Using real-life examples, Terry explains how he implements RLT to confront trauma, discover its origin, and teach the skills to break the cycle of pain, in order to live a satisfying life.
We discuss:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:03:15 - Terry’s upbringing with a depressed and abusive father
00:15:15 - The importance of the repair process, after relational disharmony, to break the trauma cycle
00:19:00 - The impact of a patriarchal society, and relational growth as the next step for feminism
00:27:15 - Origins of deep-rooted shame, and the difference between feeling ashamed and feeling guilty
00:35:30 - Preventing the propagation of trauma without over-coddling kids
00:37:30 - The one-up/one-down cycle from grandiosity to shame
00:40:00 - Covert depression-Steps to fixing the secret legacy of male depression
00:50:00 - Three forms of false self-esteem
00:51:45 - Narcissism-a misunderstood concept
00:54:15 - The interplay of shame, anger, and grandiosity, and how to break the cycle
01:06:30 - The Relational Life Therapy framework
01:15:30 - How the adaptive child becomes the maladaptive adult
01:21:45 - Speaking the language of social relationships
01:26:30 - When does it make sense for a couple to separate?
01:28:15 - Witness abuse-Consequences of screaming at your partner in the presence of children
01:30:45 - Cases of instantaneous change, and others which take more time
01:33:45 - Reconciling with his father-Terry’s final conversation with his dad
Show notes page: peterattiamd.com/terryreal/
About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 30 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
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Пікірлер: 47

@lindsaycollins3231 2 жыл бұрын

Holy crap, how do I effectively suggest that all my relations listen to this ? Thank you Terry Real.

@jackjack4412 Жыл бұрын

Well first you might write a short essay summarizing the episode or at least the main points that interested you. Then you could use that framework to start conversations with your close circle.

@shaeshae1506 4 жыл бұрын

That was great. Got a better understanding of how the traumas are past down the lines. His view on therapy resonates with what's been most powerful for me in self and relational explorations. Tranformational work. The world really needs more of this.

@JosephStockwell026 4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely brilliant pod cast. Kudos to you Peter and to your wonderful guest for such an awakening experience. I feel fortunate to have come to most of the realizations presented here on my own over the past few years but I was still brought to tears over these incredible stories. Dr. Attia, I just discovered you and your work today as I was scrolling through my KZfaq feed and one of the videos I saw was your TedMed presentation where you asked for forgiveness at the end...brother...your spirit and your courage, as I cry along with you, has only enhanced not only my own sense of self but has enhanced sense of self if the entire world. Thank you.

@MrSteveblue824 Жыл бұрын

I’ve listened to many of your great podcasts Peter but I have to say that this one was incredibly insightful and worthy of a second listening! Thank-you & Terry!

@valmurray9847 Жыл бұрын

This is an incredible podcast on so many levels. The content is deeply moving and the interviewing equally so. Thank you so much to Terry and Peter. This is one for the books - I will remember it always, and fondly!

@Mary-Petra 4 жыл бұрын

Such a vital subject and great conversation, thank you very much! I hugely cherish a book by Buddhist teacher, psychotherapist and couples counselor Polly Young-Eisendrath, PHD. It goes in a similar direction as Terry's and Esther's work and is entitled "Love between equals. Relationship as a spiritual path". If we want to experience more intimate connections we need to learn the lessons of how projection works and how to dissolve its hold on us. Deep relationships that peacefully integrate differences are possible! Humanity can grow and be saved! Take heart!!

@RTC1655 4 жыл бұрын

I'm the son of a narcissistic, emotionally abusive but yet incredible charming father. I became addicted to speedball (heroin+cocaine) in my late teens but managed to come out of it on my own after 15 years of self-destruction. In order to even out the loser stigma I just gave myself I should mention that I'm _also_ a M7 graduate and I just exited my own software company to the tune of a 8-figure $-deal. Still, inside I'm miserable. Every hour of every day is a struggle against depression, shame, guilt and in my case, aggression. I'm probably as alpha male (going sigma) as we come. Nonetheless, this means nothing to me; I would happily trade away pretty much all I have for an harmonic upbringing. There's so much wisdom in what this man is saying, and for those of you who think this irrelevant, suffice to say that tyrants and dictators throughout the ages have had these traits. Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Saddam Hussein and you-know-who all grew up with abusive relationships with at least one of their parents.

@celesteschacht8996 3 жыл бұрын

I cried when i heard about the food delivery. Thank you!

@shirleenfrailich5992 2 жыл бұрын

This was such an insightful, beautiful conversation. Thank you, Peter, for sharing another guest/friend that’s improved my life!

@cortneyvanjahnke798 2 жыл бұрын

This was an informative and inspiring podcast. Thank you for providing this insight from Terry Real and for asking the questions that opened up the conversation to help others understand some of the deep connections in communicating effectively and why we all have these deep rooted faults that we can strive to correct for the next generation.

@21972012145525 2 жыл бұрын

Wish this was seen by my husband and I before our separation

@stocos1 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, This is some amazing information I've been needing to hear. Thank you!

@anjanettesmith8014 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this amazing discussion.

@earlworth 2 жыл бұрын

The "Icarus syndrome" he talks about at 49:51, seems to me to be profoundly linked to the concept of Joseph Cambell's "the hero's journey", and that what this narrative, which is a core message that boys are told growing up, actually is, is one that says in order to be worthy you must go off and prove yourself, face difficulty and only then upon your return, harder, less connected, more stoic, are you worthy - as you are now is simply not enough.

@falst573 4 жыл бұрын

Emotional health is just as much important as physical health. Maybe why women have an advantage when it comes to longevity?

@EstateSearch Жыл бұрын

Outstanding! Insightful

@Goldo1968 2 жыл бұрын

Totally amazing - 🙏🏼👊🏼😍

@rosiebuthebuz6301 3 жыл бұрын

FANTASTIC episode, Terry's books are just brilliant. Social work in Canada woul benefit SO much from incorporating his theory and framework.

@wmartonejr 4 жыл бұрын

PeterAttiaMD I previously asked if you could expand on the topic of your own work in therapy and with this interview I’ll assume you heard my request. Thank you for sharing Sir.

@ZenFitness6 3 жыл бұрын

Brilliant.

@donnaschnare7029 4 жыл бұрын

What a wonderful episode. As a mother of two adult sons I thank you and immediately shared this with them

@dinomiles7999 3 жыл бұрын

Hope for you and them they get it . Xo . Also may want to include there dad . Eyes mind heart and soul wide open no fear...

@21972012145525 2 жыл бұрын

Wish I saw this before my separation

@Ali-co3xp 2 жыл бұрын

Wow never expected to see this side of Peter. @1:00:00

@dinomiles7999 3 жыл бұрын

Terry Real is real .

@mariazaki754 2 жыл бұрын

can someone please reiterate the name of the anthropologist being mentioned at 54:01..

@denisehenrikson1482 Жыл бұрын

the anthropologist is Raine Eisler, author: Chalice and the Blade, Power of Partnership

@kevinsmith5318 Жыл бұрын

Would love to have heard this but audio is so bad time to bail.

@powerpuffnyc 4 жыл бұрын

What’s wrong with me. I can’t relate to any of this. I can’t even imagine what it was like to go through all this. I’ve lived a happy life. I am such a spoiled brat. My heart goes out to all the kids and parents who lived through it

@robs.5847 11 ай бұрын

Most of Terry's ideas are interesting and worth considering. With that said, his buying into the Chicken Little "it's the patriarchy, it's the patriarchy" is where it gets a bit silly. The context for him to hold that belief seems important here - Terry's father rejected and then preyed on weakness, and became abusive. Terry appears to have (perhaps understandably) rejected masculinity, seeing it as synonymous with abuse, and now blames "patriarchy" as a way to blame his father without directly blaming his father. It seems like a "baby and bathwater" thing, taking his own experience with (toxic) masculinity as representative of masculinity in general. Like the feminists blaming patriarchy too, and like the War on Drugs and the War on Terror, blaming "patriarchy" is simply scapegoating a concept that never needs to be fully elucidated, and thus can be blamed and fought against forever. It perpetuates the initial trauma that leads people to this ego response, and thus perpetuates the ego response. Patriarchy in modern terms has become a meaningless epithet. There are particular aspects of behaviour that are labelled as such that deserve investigation and remedial action, but trying to label an entire sex or culture is a bridge too far. The interesting juxtaposition is the blame attributed to patriarchy, and the compassion offered to a younger individual self. Anyone who sees fit to thank and validate the actions of their younger self might also want to apply that lens socioculturally, to see that any so-called "patriarchy" is exactly what permitted society to evolve to a point where it can do better. Just a thought... Terry's ideas on shame also fall a bit short, in my opinion. Shame is a natural phenomenon, and can be healthy. There's a reason that we have evolved and retained the neurophysiological apparatus that manifests shame. The key distinction is shame as a tool versus shame as a weapon. I regard shame as a pro-social emotion, designed to stop an individual in its tracks when it is doing something against its interest (like a child about to run into traffic) or against the interests of the group. When shame is weaponised, including when it is introjected and becomes self-shaming, that is where it ceases being healthy and useful. And I want to suggest that the switch from healthy to unhealthy occurs when parents or other adults use shame somewhat indiscriminately, because it can be effective in controlling behaviour (a bit like guilting does, as a later development). The important part that Terry referenced separately is Ed Tronick's work, notably the emphasis on relational repair. Shame will happen to a child, whether imposed from outside, and/or introjected. What is important is for a caregiver to repair that rupture (including the child's self-rupture and feelings of separation).

@EUH3O48FZ 9 ай бұрын

I was wondering if I would be able to find a less than raving comment under this interview and I'm happy that I was. For a moment I thought I might be the only one having a problem with Terry blaming everything on the patriarchy. Having read about his ideas in Peter's book, I had very high hopes for this interview, but now I am a bit disappointed. It's such an embarrassing cliche to observe a problem within one of the sexes or in the relationship between the sexes, and then immediately jump to the conclusion that it must be the fault of the "patriarchy". I'm absolutely sure he could do better than to fall for this basic neomarxist manipulation of dividing people into oppressors and oppressed alongside some intersectional line, and then pit the so-called "oppressed" against the so-called "oppressors". By falling for this rather stupid idea, we are not getting any closer to an actual solution to the problem at hand. Instead, we are becoming useful idiots in service of a political agenda that will make the problem a whole lot worse.

@robs.5847 9 ай бұрын

@@EUH3O48FZ I think you're spot on, it's simply not a helpful lens. Blaming "patriarchy" is low hanging fruit, and is almost a meaningless term nowadays. I also agree about the larger "oppressor vs oppressed" paradigm, which is the academic contribution to a modern culture of victimhood, again, not particularly helpful. The thing about low hanging fruit is that it tends to be the end of an enquiry, rather than an invitation to deeper analysis. And the culture of victimhood places the locus of control external to the so-called "victim". The pseudo-agency that remains is the fiction of a call to arms, tilting at windmills to bring down institutions and concepts. It's a narrative of self-aggrandisement, amounting to "I'm a victim, but I'm a victim of something really big, so somehow I'm a more important victim". I think Real's intentions are good, but his analysis requires discernment to sort the wheat from the chaff.

@Goldo1968 2 жыл бұрын

❤️

@bbjonas4233 2 жыл бұрын

36:00

@cauthoncrazy 5 ай бұрын

Peter always sounds so skeptical to me? Or just blase? It takes me out of the conversation.

@jeffrey4577 3 жыл бұрын

His relationalism seems like relativism

@LOLWut558 4 жыл бұрын

I can't get over these emotionally charged words like "patriarchy", i guess i'll sit this one out

@dinomiles7999 3 жыл бұрын

@@1234keji go deeper more sitting quiet , try to figure out why you were triggered . I say this with all the love and compassion for you.... Eyes mind heart and soul wide open no fear.... FEEL YOU TRUE ESSANCE OF LIFE ... XO

@shannahighsmith1179 2 жыл бұрын

You are the one who Adds the Charge to the Words... The words are only the combination of Letters you read or the sounds you perceive verbally, plus any meaning or charge you add to it. Patriarchy is A Social Structure that Assigns Power/Control/to the Patri/Father over Others in the society. It's a structure that we all Inherited and has been the Standard for 5000 years of European History. It's modeled from Aerostatic Titled landed Gentry Closed Society that ruled every culture of Europe for Centuries by Rule of Death and staggering Oppression, which still exists Today.

@prahslra 3 жыл бұрын

I wonder if men are ashamed of depression because depression implies sexual impotence.

@t.c.s.7724 4 жыл бұрын

I usually enjoy Mr. Attila and his guests. Sadly, this podcast was a disappointment. An unpleasant fixation on patriarchy and supposedly toxic male behavior is tiresome and strangely self indulgent. My reasoning comes from observing the animal kingdom. Many pack animals in the wild dare not show weakness lest their pack abandon or attack them. Example, in the southwest coyotes who are injured may not cry out for fear of being outcast or losing their place in the pack hierarchy. If an individual then insists on analyzing the self esteem of the coyote or the toxic shame experienced by the coyote as a pup, welll, you get my meaning. I had a wonderful philosophy prof as an undergraduate. While we were reading through the Platonic dialogues, my prof rather curtly replied to a question regarding the psychology of Plato, "This is not a Psych 1/2 class."

@michamichalak6200 3 жыл бұрын

Coyote pups do not experience abuse.

@dinomiles7999 3 жыл бұрын

Survival of the fittest may be the destruction of our species.... I'm just say n..... Eyes mind heart and soul wide open no fear....

@The-Aion 3 жыл бұрын

"unpleasant fixation". Perhaps because it resonates deeply but you had to make a comment to the contrary to inflate some sense of self reliance. Nobody is questioning that in you sir.

@SS-wysiwyg 2 жыл бұрын

Coyotes or any other animals for that matter do not have a kind of Cerebral cortex system that humans do. And that's where emotional processing steps in. Please look up Jaak Panksepps work on this, might be worth your while to find out how a range of neuroscientists and psychologists have been tinkering with the umpteen facets of emotions. Terrence Real is simply reflecting on the manifestation of intense or negative emotions in human males.