We announced we'd be testing these last month and you guys provided brand suggestions. That said make sure to check out some great testing on these in aluminum here which is good data to have as well: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oNGegNV3tK2xf4U.html Our testing of head studs and mention we'll test thread repairs can be found here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jNKWiddi3NfWZGQ.html Unfortunately we have full time jobs and can't edit videos and visualizations to get episodes out as quick as we'd like to sometimes. More testing and more sources is always better though, regardless of how our fragile ego might feel - we all need 10X the channels doing stuff just like this!

TTC AND Project Farm testing Heli-Coils on the same day? Collab coming when? 😉

Gotta admit, it's pretty cool to see 2 different channels post videos about similar products on the same day. I know there wasn't anything intentional about that, but in the future it'd be cool to see a collaboration between you guys and Project Farm. I have a lot of respect for both channels since you guys don't bullshit anything in your tests.

The PF and TTC testing methods were complementary. I appreciated watching both back-to-back. Surprisingly interesting for a product category I wasn't that knowledgeable about.

You can adjust your pump pressure +10% with no drama. Sometimes it just takes a few extra beans to get that happy ending.

Just watched both your video and the one from Project Farm and fully appreciate both data sets. The fact that you both posted at the same time and had similar results from different approaches and products was pretty fantastic to be honest. Keep up the amazing work! And trust me when I say, even if somebody gets a similar idea, you guys to a fantastic job of presentation and filming. If I see somebody trying to replicate your tests, I would still watch all your videos because they are so well done.

I think those locking inserts didn't play nice with cast iron. Those keensert-type inserts usually warn you against using them in brittle materials because those locking keys are trying to displace material when you drive them in. The other inserts just required cutting new threads, which when the insert is installed, doesn't exert a ton of stress into the receiving material. The damage on the failed billet look like it's exclusively in the material rather than the insert itself. I've also seen those inserts used in a lot of aerospace parts, but they're generally aluminum as you mentioned, which has enough ductility to make it work

I use Perma coi and Heli coil at work and have never had an issue. We’re usually using them in spindles or knuckles for suspension mounts or caliper bolts. I can confirm that at least once, that I’m aware of, one of my techs forgot righty tighty lefty losey, and wound up snapping a 14mm bolt, 19mm head, for a caliper bracket in half. It was only after I managed to get the bolt out that I realized it was a hole that we had previously repaired with a Perma Coil. The coil was still in perfect shape and is still in that vehicle today. That was the day I learned just how strong coil type repairs can be. I’m actually happy to know that it wasn’t a fluke. Thanks for the awesome video!

I'd love to see this redone but with cast aluminum instead of cast iron... At least in our shop we don't often run into cast iron blocks losing their head bolt threads but we run into aluminum block issues all the time...

This is by far the most hilarious series you have done. Something about dial indicators flying like a blown man-hole cover just cracks me up. Sadly I have a broken rib, so this is also by far the most painful series you have done.

The Time-Sert option looks like the best choice for an assembly that has to be frequently bolted and un-bolted. The locking insert is like the faster and less critical version. I've always liked using properly installed Heli-Coils, but you can never say that too loudly or else the "Time-Sert or nothing" crowd comes out of nowhere and starts yelling. Finally some real data to quiet them down on coil inserts being supposedly for hacks.

Manufacturing/machining job worker here: The Helicoil install tool is typically best used for making sure the coil doesn't cause scratching on your part, and helps align and keep it set right for tightly-machined threading. Most of the reasons we use it at my job is because we're working fairly soft aluminum, and these tools keep them from screwing the threads or chromate up, and help prevent possible cross-threading. Some of the helicoils are 7/8", and those ones come loose enough to slide over 1" insert tools.

I love myself some Project Farm, but why he chose to use a class 8.8 / Grade 5 bolt for his tests perplexes me. His results for the inserts all looked the same because the bolt broke every time, isn't that lost data? This video took that variable out by using the L19 stud and we saw the difference.

Would’ve preffered to see the jb weld left to cure with the head stud left in the hole rather than drilling and tapping threads. Ideally just shoved straight into damaged threads and bolt shoved in after.

Thank you for another tremendously useful video. You can imagine the horror of stripping the threads out of the drain plug hole in a cast aluminum crankcase and the subsequent elation of fixing it with a Heli-coil. I still remember how much more smoothly the plug screwed in to those stainless steel threads 40 years later.

amazing how projectfarm released the same test on the same day within minutes of each other lol

You should use a simple lever to save your indicators. As long as the sides are equally distant it will turn the upwards motion into downwards of the same intensity and when the bolt breaks the lever moves away from the indicator instead of just putting the indicator in the line of fire.

Interesting results. I've always thought Time-Serts were the gold standard as far as thread repairs are concerned. They are often recommended in place of Heli-Coils / other similar coil repair brands for things like engine block threads where the cylinder head bolts down to. The cylinder head fasteners are exposed to tremendous lifting forces from combustion trying to blow the head off, so I would definitely consider another option than Time-Sert if clamping loads were a concern. As far as people in the comments section worried about a coil-type insert backing out compared to a Time-Sert? Not sure if I buy that, especially when you use high-strength thread locker to secure it. I've never had a problem with them backing out, even on fasteners that are routinely broken loose and retorqued. Very informative video. Keep up the good work. R.I.P. to all the dial indicators who gave their life in the line of duty.

He touched the L19! It's going to melt n turn into a molten pile of platinum! Excellent and definitely relevant video, cant believe how well the JB weld did! I haven't seen anyone test thread repair options much less so thoroughly, well done..

Won't lie, I was giddy to watch both of y'alls videos. I had a rude welcome to Heli-Coil kits when I first bought an ATV. The really thin metal that is threaded to hold on the skid plates rusts out super quick, so I had to use a kit on it and learn to cover that thing in oil/grease. Fast forward to next ATV, it came with a broken bolt that holds on the exhaust shroud and instead of messing with Yamaha warranty, etc. I just used the same Heli-Coil kit from the other ATV as it was the same size bolt. Installed with red loc-tite and its been good since about 2007.

There is another YT video of a machinist comparing the helicoil versus time-sert. Similar result where time-sert was worse than helicoil. I then asked PF to compare various methods of thread repair last year.

Wow...pretty impressive what cheap little thread repairs can withstand. Wasnt expecting those results. Even more shocking the time serts didnt do as well. You always hear those are the best. Just goes to show you never really know until you actually test them...for science. Thats what makes your channel stand out over all the others, the proof is in the pudding, cant just listen to what someone tells you thats never tested the stuff before. Great vid bud. Keep up the awesome work for the gearhead community...and science haha

LET'S GO!!!🏁 I bought a used car as a work car and a couple months after I bought it it spit a spark plug out at me I used the Heliocoil tap. And a Plug Saver from Fix-a-thread (Alcoa Fastening Systems) to fix it... that was 6 years ago I still drive that car hard..I used red Loctite and "pinged" the edges very critical to tap lightly the material around the hole to move it slightly to "tighten " the hole...no problems since... Excellent video..excellent info...👍

Tough luck that Project Farm beat you by 15 minutes. Still two great channels and I’ll watch both videos.

This and the PF tests made me feel okay about the relatively cheap set I bought. I wanted something which had most things I was likely to need, but since I've only needed a few of these things in my lifetime (so far), I didn't want to spend hundreds of dollars on a set. Thanks for another interesting video.

Project Farm did a similar test with many of the same products and fond E-Z LOK to be the best all around with the Heli Coil design all showing well but his test were in Aluminum 2" flat stock. The E-Z LOC came in a complete set with drill, tap & insertion tool included & the inserts already had red Loctite on them. In his testing the bolts were the common failure point rather than the inserts.

Machinist checking in. It is always better to use lube when tapping regardless of material. With cast iron you can get away with it because it is so short chipping. However, some people think cast iron chips act as lubrication because of the graphite nodules. They do not. They are abrasive. Cast iron actually wears cutting tools rapidly. Also, the reason you use timeserts over helicoils is because threaded inserts like timeserts hold up better to reinstallation than coils do.

HeliCoil has cheapened their sets from what I'm familiar with using in the 1960s. I still have the first one I purchased to repair 7/16 head bolts in a small block Chevy. Those sets came with the drill, tap and the installation tool was a threaded tube the size of the bolt with a crossbar that doubled as the handle as well as the tool to break the tang. The insert was threaded into the hole so the top thread of the insert was one thread into the hole. The installation tool was left in the insert, the handle was removed, inserted into the center of the installation tool and tapped with a hammer to break the tang without bending the bottom thread or pulling it out of place as the installation tool held it firmly in place. Then the installation tool was removed and the thread in the hole was staked just at the end of the coil using a punch. This prevents the coil backing out when a bolt is removed that has had thread locker used. When their Patent expired in 1969, several other companies got into the market. Those kits usually didn't include a drill bit, they used a cheaper, shorter tap and didn't have a full thread installation tool. If the hole isn't tapped deep enough, the lower part of the coil will be in the tapered area of the tapped thread and wedge onto the bolt which is why the threaded installation tool is important so the installer can tell if the threads are deep enough. Many people installing coils don't break the tang off and just screw the bolt in to let the bolt break it off which will either wedge the thread or drive the coil deeper into the tapered thread and wedge the bolt. The taps included with the cheaper kits were of a lower quality steel and would be dull after installing the inserts that came with the kit while the early Helicoil taps could be used for many additional inserts.

Project Farm just posted the same test minutes ago. What are the odds ? The cool thing is that you tested different aspects of the same products. 😀

We use thread inserts at work for aluminum molds that go through a bunch of heat cycles. Hand tight will work for most parts and the one's with a torque spec are pretty low, so they work when used in that scenario. Though people like to impact them down with Dewalt 20v Atomics.... So they don't hold up very well....

I've been watching you guys since your channel started and you've easily made it into my top 3 for sources of genuine information on these types of things! I appreciate all the hard work and effort you guys go through to keep my dollars from being wasted! Thanks 100x for all you do and keep up the excellent work!

TTC and project farm, great job to both for showing different failure modes.

"The OTHER name in..." is such a hilarious company motto. 🤣🤣

Back in 1986, a machine shop felt it was best to install heli-coils for the spark plug threads into my remachined VW cylinder heads (didn't ask me). Then about a decade ago one of the helicoils came out with the plug when re-doing plugs. I installed a solid threaded insert (not a name brand) from CarQuest, red Loctite on the outside of the insert and never seize lubricant on the spark plug threads; fine for a decade now.

Between you guys and project farm, KZfaq is definitely a golden resource for me! Love the content, especially when you guys coincidentally do the same tests in your own formats. Best two channels on here in my opinion

You should re-do the JB weld test, similar to that of a Heli-Coil. Drill out the old threads with the oversized Drill, then run the larger tap to create new threads. This gives the JB-Weld something to grab on. The Oversized threads. Fill the Hole with JB-Weld, let it cure. Then Drill on Size for the Bolt size, and tap new threads.

Great summary, and classy response to your friendly competition. Regarding the Timesert, I wonder if it might have done better if the bolt was threaded right down to the bottom of the hole. The way it broke suggests the bolt may not have used all the threads, breaking away where the tip of the bolt ended.... Even so, it sounds like a good real world comparison, since we try to never thread a bolt all the way down, leaving a little room for debris and variance in length and depth.

On the locking insert, it looked like the cast iron failed before the insert. I mean, a failure is a failure but maybe worth a re-try unless there was something that we didnt see that showed the insert failing. In my opinion, the locking insert would shine in the example you gave, where something was repeatedly screwed and unscrewed from it. I'm betting it would resist backing out better than the rest of the test group.

Wow..... I'm very surprised that a helicoil out performed the time serts. At the dealership we used time serts to repair cylinder head bolt homes, rocker arm holes, etc. Now I find out that not only could we have used the El cheapo helicoils, but they were actually better?

the JB Weld did indeed do remarkably well!

Just my two cents on why the coil inserts performed as well as they did; by the nature of the loading between the bolt and the threads the insert is in, you are trying to squish/shear the 304, which if memory serves it resists very well in contrast to it's tensile strength. Not to mention with your standard thread form, it acts like a set of wedges between the insert, the bolt, and the parent metal, trying to expand the coil outwards, so in something that has a lot of resistance to expansion from within (like a big cast iron blank) it will hold itself in extremely well, if you tried that in a much thinner or softer blank, I bet you would see different results with the coil pulling out due to some elastic deformation of the hole it was in, in which case the insert types like the time sert would perform better. Just a heavy physics day for me I guess.

The thing that make heli-coils so strong is the fact they are flexible. With inserts like time-sert the load really only puts pressure on one or two threads. With heli-coils the load is more evenly spread out.

A decent comparison of the products and like others have said, application plays a huge part in selection of the correct repair. As a Tool and Die Maker, I cringed a bit when I saw the preparation of the sample. Whenever drilling in a vise like that and then tapping by hand, the threads are likely to be less than ideal (round stock like that begs for a lathe). Even a slight bias of the tap will cause an early failure since the stud only loads on a small area first. Especially in cast iron, there isn't any internal yield to 'set' the threads, they just crack.

Simply put you guys ROCK. You are so very helpful & produce extremely important information for mechanics & DIY'ers. I subscribed to your channel on the recommendation from CP the Tool Addict. Thank you for taking time to help me. Your friend Larry C

Came here directly from PF. it is interesting to see such good testing from two seperate but similar testing channels.

I repaired a starter bolt hole on an LS1 engine block w/ JB Weld and it has lasted over ten years w/o issue. The "ear" for the bolt actually broke off the block and I re-formed it w/ the JB Weld, then re-tapped it. The starter just crapped out on me and I was nervous about the durability of the repair . . . and was pleasantly surprised to find the repaired thread in perfect condition and merely did the minimum required to eplace the starter. Yea!!!

A good Heli-Coil type thread repair is functional in a spot that won't be taken apart often, if at all. Where solid inserts really shine is their ability to be assembled and disassembled multiple times without pulling the insert out of the base material. Also, in cases where the holes are elongated slightly larger than the coil inserts, solid inserts are the go to.

Perfect timing! I just discovered 3 of the oil pan bolt holes on my engine block are striped out. Can't wait to see what I'll be buying to repair those threads!

It would be great to see this same comparison done with aluminium, I think you would likely see different results when comparing solid mild steel inserts vs stainless coil type, I used to use recoil or helicoil but lately tool pro has saved me some money

I like this guy's sense of humor! 😅👍

Gonna need a dial indicator memorial in the background somewhere

Thanks for the interesting information 👍. I didn't know that the inserts would be that strong and never would have thought that JB weld would hold up as that well.

I use Time-Serts when there is a fluid passage involved. Heli-Coils in most other things. Main reason is that the solid inserts seem to seal better.

I'm most impressed with the jb weld repair. I had no idea it could be that strong. I have tried epoxy repairs but it was a lot of years ago and I did not have good luck with them. I guess they've improved on the compounds some.

as a heavy duty diesel mechanic and using time serts for head bolt repair and "helicoil" for all others I've genuinely always wondered how strong the threads would be and this test really contradicts what everyone in the shop has said that it's weaker, makes me feel better using these products!

The durability and strength of thread inserts is sensitive to the hole size and taper. Anything drilled (and a drill that's the biggest recommended size)by hand will derate these quite a bit in my experience. Great test and good info.

Simpsons did it! Seriously, funny that both of you did the same video on the same day. Project Farm has their own style. I've always used Helicoils, but I've had issues with that little tab breaking off where it doesn't need to be. Some compressed air and a needle tip usually does the trick.

Cast iron doesn’t necessarily require cutting oil because the high carbon content $ crystal structure leads to numerous graphite crystals in the material. When you cut into the material, the graphite acts like a lubricant.

Dang man you are very talented between making the inserts work, testing the stuff, and actually having editing skills to make us this video wow nice

Bravo sir. Thanks for your time investigating these inserts. As a budget maintenance mechanic at home I've always wondered who's the harware boss in "cross your fingers thread repairs".. I've also been thankfully lucky a handfull of times with JB weld.

You guys just keep getting better and better! Thanks, I loved it

I always love watching you videos, subscribed a while ago. Back in my automotive tech days ( 45 years worth ) we used a time-sert type of insert ( can’t remember the brand) to repair striped spark plug holes. A spark plug needs a flat or conical sealing surface at the top depending on the plug design. A coil type insert will leak compression past the larger new threads and damage them. When you need to seal something ( compression, oil, coolant etc ) a sleeve type insert would be best.

This video has definitely got me thinking that I would love to see a video on Rivnuts.

Pretty awesome and of course i had to watch both videos. Great content

The JB Weld did a heck of a lot better than I was expecting, to be honest! I wonder if driving the locking pins down into the cast iron started fractures that weakened the threads. I'd be really interested to see a similar run, but in mild steel instead of cast iron.

Thought I would give you a helpful suggestion. You can get tap handles that have a rotating top that can be installed in a drill press. Thus after you drill out the hole to be tapped on the drill press you install the tap rotating collar into the drill press. Then bring down the drill press head onto the slip fit of the tap handle. Perfect alignment. Use the drill press (motor off) to apply down ward pressure while the other hand is used to screw the tap in and out.

1:53 oh my god that's a genius way to open that god awful packaging how did I never think of that!

I bought a V-coil set size M6 once to repair a thread for a valve cover. after one user error it worked totally flawless. I honestly took it for the price alone, never expected any real quality.

I've been mix and matching wire insert brands for well over 30 years, using Heli-Coil, Re-Coil and Western Threading Systems taps, tools and inserts with each other. The only times I've had problems or failures have been due to either my own error in failing to drill or tap square or due to insufficient support metal. (Re-threading engine sump drains is often problematic when they only have a thin wall spot welded plug thread.) Never tried a Time-Sert as I generally have to do my thread repairs in awkward to access locations and often have to get creative in how to get a drill bit into the location. A tip for others: As I'm often running an insert into an engine in place, I have made up a couple of tools that I can use to slip over the tang of the insert and snap them outwards rather than knocking them off into the cavity.

Helicoils have saved my ass on multiple occasions and have never had a problem

always had good luck with helicoil. and we have used JB weld as a hail mary, with a helicoil and it worked actually very well and is still going to this day (non critical M6 fastener)

You could mount a lever on the indicator stand and use the indicator on the outward stroke if you want to save a few bucks on cheap indicators. JB Weld takes almost a week to fully harden.

really interesting result on the time sert... I used to work for honda and there were a few engines that were known for pulling head bolt threads... timesert was the ONLY repair method authorized by them, I installed hundreds.... sort of has me questioning that result now.

Been wanting something like this for years. Thanks for doing this for us.

The Time-Sert installation tool is a rolling tap/roll-forming tap. They work way better with softer materials than cutting taps.

Awesome test. Helicoil makes sense, since it's a round coiled insert with the same diameter throughout. The double threaded insert didn't have a consistent wall thickness due to the inside and outside thread position, so it makes sense that it failed at a lower point than the coil inserts. What amazed me is the strength of JB Weld. Goodness, that stuff is strong! Great to watch these videos. I actually bought a Rigid high torque 18V wrench due to your testing and I'm thoroughly pleased - make that more than pleased. Thank you.

Lightweight simple spring -looking dealio ... that really needs to be part of of Perma-coil's next ad campaign.

Man, Project Farm AND Torque Test doing thread repair videos... is it my birthday?

When I was in trade school our instructor really bent our ears about the superiority of time-serts. Now after all these years our sneers and jeers are vindicated!

Project Farm posted a thread repair video minutes before TT did. Crazy.

What I’ve done with the Time-Sert’s while using them, is put red loctite on the outer threads so to cement it further. Maybe to try that with another thread insert video, but using red loctite on the outer threads for each install.

Awesome video! It also matches the results seen in the Project Farm tests. The Time-Serts were also underwhelming compared to the cheaper competition. Great confirmation for what to purchase. Thank you! You and guys like Project Farm, AvE, and others are doing gods work, providing a great library of useful facts for the rest of us.

Jb weld seals holes in radiators pretty well. Works even while it’s still leaking

Those locking inserts have a special feature that make them extremely useful. Drilling or grinding out the internal threads and using a punch on the locking tabs allows you to remove the insert in 4 pieces without damaging the threads in the work piece. We use the inserts in a Zap-lok press (hydraulic pipeline press). Any thread wear or damage occurs in the insert instead of the press casting.

I was thinking the JB weld would work best without drilling out the hole. Just re-tap to clean up the threads a bit, apply JB weld and insert bolt. With the bit of original threads left I think it would hold better. I inserts really surprised me. The head bolts were a cool test to do. Over all fantastic video and great job.

Helecoils are great for fixing striped out AL threads. I put one in my high end DSLR after the 1/4 thread wore out. The fix was stronger then new.

the timing is great! I love y'all both (don't worry, you're still my favorite) I got my coast headlamp cuz of y'all and still use it daily, love that thing

Very cool! The shop I work at uses Time-Serts for spark plug thread repairs on aluminum heads and they work excellent.

Great test set - thx. JB is amazing stuff, and confirmation on my assumption of spring coil strength is happy days !!!

Finally some question from many forums has been fulfilled. Some say that I am idiot using helicoils, I should use serts. I have used helicoils for exhaust manifolds and some various threads in the engines except cylinder head studs(never had to though). And one very big plus from helicoil style inserts is - of you screw it up you can pull it out and start again.

Catapillar hydraulic breakers come with stainless coil inserts brand new from factory.

Self tapping thread insert is what I like using on steel. It worked great on my quad frame for the skid plate bolts. I don’t know it this is necessary but I weld around the top of new threads.

All thread coils are stronger than you think. I have some hand-me-downs from a machinist and they're all different brands. If it mattered much it would only be one. He worked on giant presses that shook the ground all the way out in the parking lot when they struck. Whatever seemed more than adequate. You've proved it.

Had to buy our company a 1-1/2” Heli-Coil kit decades ago. Over $600, but it came in a steel suitcase.

Man I can't wait till the next episode of dial indicator death row!! Totally full of "edge of your seat" info. Very riveting! Lol

Surprising results and great information, thank you.

Ever think of using a wire edm to cut stuff like this in half and get a better look at the failure ?

Okay so, here's the issue I have with the other brands and why I use timesert. The other brands do a really poor job of staying in the hole, timesert doesn't back out and locks in place. When repairing aluminum engine blocks you can remove and install bolts without worrying about the thread inserts coming with them. Even though the timesert didn't win in torque, I'd be curious to see which one backs out of the threads the easiest when removed. I think most of us mechanics don't have issues with insert strength. The issues we usually have are related to the stupid thing backing out when disassembling something. I don't know how many times I've pulled things apart with helicoils inserts just to have the insert come out with it. Never had that issue with timeserts. Great tests, just saying there is more to the inserts then strength.

Excellent video!

Fun fact: Helicoils are the only FAA approved threaded insert, and are used on brand new aircraft where a steel fastener is used in an aluminum casting.