302 SBC Camshaft Selection - 1968 Camaro Z/28 - We have to replicate the factory sound of the 30/30!

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Gold's Garage

Gold's Garage

2 ай бұрын

In this video I share an update on Tony Guzzo’s 1968 302, discuss the camshaft selection, and a tip of the day that can help prevent hydraulic flat tappet camshaft failure.
#summitracing #chevrolet #z28 #chevy

Пікірлер: 315
@racerd9669
@racerd9669 2 ай бұрын
A good tip for you is to assemble just the #1 rod and piston, and then dial in the cam. You can rotate the engine so much smother and get you readings on the degree wheel so much finer. Also the DZ is a true 69 Z28 block.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Right on Racer, thanks for the comment. that is how i usually do it, but we haven't even picked the cam yet and i had all the rotating assembly ready to install so I wanted to get it together while i have the time. AG.
@deancrawford2577
@deancrawford2577 Ай бұрын
When so many build their 350 's to death, it's great to see a 302 being built. I have a great respect of the' unsung heroes' like 302's, both Chev and Ford.
@Dogboy1960
@Dogboy1960 Ай бұрын
Even the 350 is becoming a tough choice. 327s and 302s are almost never built. A least not for anything but a numbers matching piece of history. It's easy to explain. You can "dress" a SBC to look like what ever you want it to appear to be. Inside though, stroker bottom ends and infinitely better heads, than avaiable back in the day, along with excellent Roller cam profiles have just changed the game so significantly. There is no good reason to give away all the mid and low end power with small displacements and 400-500HP small blocks are just so common in the 383+ displacement. 50 years ago and a trans am rule book that mandated a peanut sized SBC is a long time ago. Worse still? Modern muscle car power is a new "boggie" to shoot for. Starting with a 302" displacement is a huge disadvantage in the effort to get to a place where your '69 Z/28 can make a move on a Modern Muscle car. We are a long way from when a 300+HP SBC was considered a pretty "stout" combination.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Different points of view, thanks guys. AG
@reevesautomotivefarm9614
@reevesautomotivefarm9614 Ай бұрын
It is nice to see a good 302 build. I built a 327 for my old Nova for similar reasons although financially not the best decision is 350 parts are cheap and readily available now it's hard to find those old 302 327 parts without having custom pistons made for example
@deancrawford2577
@deancrawford2577 Ай бұрын
@@reevesautomotivefarm9614 I also have a soft spot for a 327, I remember my uncle had a very hot El Camino with a 327, absolutely astonishing performance I would never had guessed it was a 327, the mid to top rpm was almost vtec like lol. 🤣
@firebirdjone
@firebirdjone Ай бұрын
On my original 69 Z I built the engine true to stock form, unported heads, custom JE pistons with the pin height moved for close to zero deck so I didn't have to deck the block for obvious reasons. The cam is a custom solid flat tappet with tight lash (.014" cold) with .495 lift so it ends up close to the stock advertised lift after lash is figured in. Ground on a 112 LSA and .050 duration is around 240 if I recall correctly. idles at 1000 with 10 inches of vacuum at 5000 ft elevation and works the power brakes fine. Nice flat torque curve on the dyno that stays within 15 ft lbs. of peak throughout the entire pull (peak tq at 4300) and makes peak power at 6300 but holds on within 5 HP to 7000. Engine is driven and dyno'd on 91 octane fuel. A little over 50,000 miles on the engine now over the last 7 years. Runs nicely at any RPM. One thing I do is have the camshaft nitrided and also run the solid lifter with the EDM hole so the lobes see direct oiling at all times. The lash on this engine has not budged since break in and over 50,000 miles. I just check it once a year. Idle video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f8Bge892vp3GZ2g.html
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thank you very much Firebird. That is a very impressive build and you captured the sound right on. Lot's of great recommendations, most of which we will be doing also. Can you share the peak HP numbers with us? AG
@firebirdjone
@firebirdjone Ай бұрын
​@@goldsgarage8236 peak HP at the flywheel was 378 and peak tq was 373. Cam was set at 107 icl and that was with a set of headers. On a chassis dyno I misjudged the weather and had the carb too fat. Drove it 2 hours to get there in the morning and circumstances didn't have me on the dyno till late day when it was hot outside (phoenix) and the da climbed to almost 4000 ft. It made 284/277 with AFR in the high 11's. I didn't have time to lean the carb. I felt it might have made closer to 300 at the tire.
@blkcoupequattro
@blkcoupequattro 8 күн бұрын
Years back, friend of mine I grew up with his dad worked for Good Chevrolet in Alameda California. Good Chevrolet is gone now his dad is also, but my friend use to talk about the DZ302 his dad bought for project the never came around that engine sat in the garage for years, think my friend finally found a use for the engine been a while since I spoke with him. As for David Vizard there are a lot of people that have had the opportunity to talk with David, his knowledge on cylinder heads, and camshafts engine dynamics is amazing. I had the opportunity back in the mid 80's to speak to David on the phone about a English Ford 1600 engine I was building with a turbo, he was a wealth of knowledge on the subject and had remarked about he had set a class record using a English Ford he had built for a Formula Ford car at the time. Late 60's 70's were the best times for motorsport just my opinion.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 7 күн бұрын
Great story, thanks for sharing.AG
@scottruether2500
@scottruether2500 2 ай бұрын
Clay Smith C304 solid flat tappet woke up a friend's 1969 Z. Folks couldn't believe it was only 302 cubes. Car had 4.88 gears it loved it. Later changed to a 4.30 so it had better street manners.
@sachenstein
@sachenstein 2 ай бұрын
I'm building a dana 60 3.54 posi and powerglide, i guess I'll be spending some time in first, hehe.
@sachenstein
@sachenstein 2 ай бұрын
If i had a large journal 3.00 crank I'd do it, but happy to try the setup with 3.25, partly because the engine has all its own bits, i could only trace numbers back to 68 camaro or chevelle.
@larryburns4605
@larryburns4605 2 ай бұрын
A Clay Ith C304 6 B runs good in most sb Chevy's I have used in many
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Scott. When I first had my 1968 Z28 it was my daily driver and i has 4.88's in it. I replaced them with 3.55 when i restored it in 2016. AG
@pontiac411
@pontiac411 2 ай бұрын
I watched a video where Keith Dorton used spray graphite also, sounds like a good safety measure.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Pontiac, I can't really prove that it helps, but it doesn't hurt for sure. AG
@markv4016
@markv4016 Ай бұрын
Brings back engine screaming memories of my first (and only) 456 geared 68 Z28 back in the early 70’s. I had put a factory GM performance cam that was hotter (sowing machine sounding 30/30 lash cam?)than the original cam but do not think it was one of the 2 off road cams they had for it. Original owner did a back yard porting job and had a Crowler roller in it when I had bought it. Adjust the lifters and new set of plugs every so often and it pulled like freight train till @ 7,200rpm. It kind of lived over 6,000 rpm and thank fully I survived :-) The hotter GM cam (for originality), professional porting with the same gear I had and he will be very happy! BTW.. Now a 70 Cuda Mopar!
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Mark, a 70 Cuda is cool for sure. AG
@billfioretti3013
@billfioretti3013 Ай бұрын
G.M. used to include ramps in their advertised durations. Skewed the numbers upward quite a bit. i.e 346 total degree duration then. Same true total manufacturers advertised duration today and the engine won't run. Two different methods of rating. Also, great tips on flat tappet break-in. I used to use nitrated components in past years. In recent years, cryogenically treated cams and flat lifters. Like you, never lost a camshaft in 50 years of engine building, street and off-road competition. Keep up the great work and information. Despite being a True Blue Ford Guy, I really enjoy your channel!
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Bill, we have a Ford project in the pipeline, watch for it. AG
@billfioretti3013
@billfioretti3013 Ай бұрын
@@goldsgarage8236 Thank you. Looking forward to it.
@michaelvoigt724
@michaelvoigt724 2 ай бұрын
Love the content, I'm a huge fan of the good old SBC!
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Michael, lots more to come. AG
@davidparizek6741
@davidparizek6741 2 ай бұрын
Alan, this is my favorite new channel, keep up the Great Work 👍 Can’t wait to see this 302 on the Dyno
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and commenting David. AG
@mrho4speed
@mrho4speed Ай бұрын
Great video and I also enjoy reading the comments = like going to cam college!!! Nothing will effect an engine more than the cam selection so it is important for the owner/driver to be accurate and realistic about the car and the desired result. It all has to work together and glad you mentioned the rear gear ratio as well. Keep the videos coming and thank you!
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks you 4Speed. AG
@michaelmaher4328
@michaelmaher4328 2 ай бұрын
nice discussion on the 302, I'd like to volunteer to help dial the engine in once in the 68. I'm wanting to speed-shift the 4 speed at 7200 rpm, 7500 rpm and 7800 rpm on multiple test-hits to help real world driving conditions, Lol
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Sure Michael, you get to drive it right after me! AG
@davidreed6070
@davidreed6070 2 ай бұрын
People argue about David's formula,but it works well. I was thinking 242. 248. On a 110 1.6. rocker on the imtake I have used the Duntof 30. 30. Cam. Back in the day.
@sachenstein
@sachenstein 2 ай бұрын
Hi, my moon cam is 246/243 & 110. I'm tempted to get a copy done to use, as this one could be a collectable nos.
@davidreed6070
@davidreed6070 2 ай бұрын
@@sachenstein if you flip the dur Sbc engines respond well with a little more ex duration. Almost all engines do.
@sachenstein
@sachenstein 2 ай бұрын
Yeah i pondered that too, it's mostly a street engine, thinking of enlarging the exhaust valves by. 030, not sure if it would compensate much.
@davidreed6070
@davidreed6070 2 ай бұрын
@@sachenstein if it is an automatic you might think about the torque converter.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for all the comments Guys. David, all Z28's were 4 speeds.AG
@johnzuggster375
@johnzuggster375 2 ай бұрын
Thank you, your are truly Gold!
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks John, compliments like this keep me going. AG
@robertwest3093
@robertwest3093 2 ай бұрын
Nice to see that Summit is including the right sized package of lube for their cams. The last cam I bought was a Comp XE268 and it had a package about half that size.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Robert. I really like the lube they use. AG
@garyhosier4765
@garyhosier4765 2 ай бұрын
For a factory type build it’s very interesting. I’d be awful tempted for a roller cam for ease of maintenance with todays oils but I’d love to have the original type cam also.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
That is our dilemma exactly Gary. Thanks for commenting.AG
@toddbrown2236
@toddbrown2236 Ай бұрын
Excellent video. All this talk about Z-28s makes me think that maybe I should build one after the Goat is finished (my wife would kill me - ha!). Thanks for the update and another great lesson on the thought process that goes into engine building. Well done!
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Todd. AG
@sachenstein
@sachenstein 2 ай бұрын
Hi from New Zealand. Love your instructional videos. I'm building a 327 (4660) with 461 heads, and offenhauser 360 ram and 650dp. I was given a new old stock moon cam by an old gentleman who built some of the T/A camaro's here for race duty. He told me it was one they were going to use but their engines ran so well they didnt need it so it sat on the cam shelf for decades. He said it's a dz302 cam that will make my 327 run well. Here's hoping, just thought you'd like the story.
@sachenstein
@sachenstein 2 ай бұрын
I got it cam doctored years ago, i can send a screenshot, but it's pretty faint.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
It's a great story, thanks for contributing all the way from New Zealand. AG
@nojunkwork5735
@nojunkwork5735 2 ай бұрын
In my younger days racing stock cars, guys would talk about using graphite for cam break in lube. Graphite may be good for a door lock but not for a camshaft break-in lube. Because of its molecular composition, graphite delaminates under severe loads such as cam to lifter contact with high valve spring pressure. I think what has kept you in the ball game was that you are using a good cam lube with the graphite. I use a good cam lube and a high ZDDP 1200 ppm oil when I run in a new cam and have never burned down any cam lobes.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the info. AG
@gregcampbell3064
@gregcampbell3064 Ай бұрын
Going against everyone reliving history crowd. Go solid roller. Had one in a 396/375 clone engine, 4.10's, 3800 stall, and let's say it was impressive in my 66 Chevelle. Another great video.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Gregory, it will be solid for sure. More to come on this subject. AG
@UncleVom
@UncleVom 2 ай бұрын
Historically correct, GM 2nd Design Off-Road Cam. (-;
@scotthatch4548
@scotthatch4548 Ай бұрын
I like that camshaft and have used it a few times .... And would be a good choice for this engine.. I did not check the timing events but I think that was the second cam mentioned in the video ..... 7000 rpm 302 will not have a lot of bottom end power anyway and will need gear
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the comments guys. AG
@antilaw9911
@antilaw9911 2 ай бұрын
Love the Golds Garage neon sign 👍
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the comment. AG
@dondotterer24
@dondotterer24 2 ай бұрын
I like the first cam that you mentioned. But your friend Bill or Mike Jones camshafts might have a better idea. Great idea using the dry graphite. It really sticks. I've tested it. Thanks for the videos.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the comments Don, more to come on this subject. AG
@robertjohnson6719
@robertjohnson6719 2 ай бұрын
Good solid information no bs
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Robert. That is our goal. AG
@scottmcmullen7541
@scottmcmullen7541 Ай бұрын
302 Chev's are fun little engines. We used a Solid Roller with roughly (memory lol) .570/.580 250/260 @.050 with a 112 LSA. car had a short gear set and ran strong. it just didnt have the Z/28 sound but it did sound great.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Scott, good point, it's going to be difficult to replicate the 302 sound with a roller. AG
@Scubasteve22
@Scubasteve22 2 ай бұрын
My cam choice would be Comp cams 12-679-5. Extreme energy 290. Would help get this valvetrain into the modern era. I would stay away from a 114 LSA. Crower also has a nice one part number 00322. Appreciate you letting us participate! If you are swinging for the fences to get max hp, go with the comp. If you are wanting something close to but more modern and more power than the original, then go with the crower. Thanks
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 2 ай бұрын
Great comments Steve. This kind of input is exactly what we are looking for. We will keep you posted. AG
@jeffreydurham5342
@jeffreydurham5342 2 ай бұрын
On flat tappet cam break-in, use oil specifically designed for it, Driven BR30 is excellent. It has the proper extreme pressure additives and no detergents to compromise them. I've had excellent results.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the info Jeffrey. AG
@jakewade7388
@jakewade7388 2 ай бұрын
I would call and talk to Bullet Cams. They have a lot of UD Harold’s grinds. If you don’t know who he is, look him up. A cam designer legend.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the tip Jake. AG
@jakewade7388
@jakewade7388 Ай бұрын
Harold Brookshire (UD Harold) was his name. He had Ultradyne cams. Bullet cams is Mississippi has his masters. They make great cams and will help you with your decision. Very knowledgeable folks there.
@donaldcavey6241
@donaldcavey6241 2 ай бұрын
I used a factory Gm Z28 cam. Lowered compression to 10.5 :1 to run 93 pump gas and made 367 hp at 6000 rpm.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Good info and good results. Thanks Donald. AG
@jarheaded9278
@jarheaded9278 Ай бұрын
What size engine?
@jimkillen1065
@jimkillen1065 Ай бұрын
I had a 302 built for my 68 Camaro .. i used a larger journal 302 Crank .. i used the stock rods prepared by a shop in fort worth that builds dirt track engines . Sps rods bolts . I used a set of cylinder heads of a g gas car titanium valves ect ect ..i used a 600 isky roller cam . Joe mar , roller rockers ect ect ....i has the block bore honed deck plate .. i spun the engine to 7500 regularly.. ..This engine showed me the valve of a good set of cylinder heads that had a lot of work done to them ..
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing your experience Jim. AG
@billlittle4285
@billlittle4285 Ай бұрын
Nice hone job by Atchisons Alan!!
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Bill. And with the 1/16 ring package, torque to turn is 20-22 ft. lb. AG
@jamescherney5874
@jamescherney5874 2 ай бұрын
First, a couple of corrections. Duntov was Belgian not German and the Duntov Cam was developed for the 283 in the 1st generation Corvettes. It was not the 30-30 Cam used in the Z28. The 30-30 was developed purely for road racing and as mentioned is not happy being driven on the street. Recommendation would be the Isky Z-25 or Z-27 solid . The 108 LSA works well and does not undue the overlap like the 114 LSA would. I installed a Z-25 in a 57 Vette with the stock 283 and it works good and idles about 950 rpm. With 10.5 comp and the better Z28 heads it should give 7000 rpm easy and a wider powerband.
@robertandmaxwell
@robertandmaxwell 2 ай бұрын
I think the z25 cam is totaly worth a try but I'm suspect of the intake close degrees. I think it might be early for this higher compression combo.
@shelbyavant5081
@shelbyavant5081 Ай бұрын
Duntov was Russian, buddy. Do your research before correcting others in a public forum. He was merely born in Belgium.
@jamescherney5874
@jamescherney5874 Ай бұрын
@@shelbyavant5081 OK Buddy, His parents were Russian, he was born in Belgium and grew up in Germany. Hope you are satisfied.
@shelbyavant5081
@shelbyavant5081 Ай бұрын
@@jamescherney5874 Grew up in Russia, bro. Moved to Germany when he was 18. Try again. Or don't, preferably.
@jamescherney5874
@jamescherney5874 Ай бұрын
@@shelbyavant5081 You won.
@Comet-hn3gm
@Comet-hn3gm 2 ай бұрын
Out of the cams you mentioned the Howards roller will make the most power. I agree with one of the guys on here that said 242@.050 and 248. But I would run 246 on the exhaust if its going to have headers. Put as much lift at the intake valve as you can. On another note; a lower tension oil ring package is worth the effort. No downside.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Comet, not sure if i mentioned, we used a 1/16" 1/16" file fit ring package and the torque to turn was 20-22 ft. lb. Typically with a new engine, about 30 ft. lb. is normal. AG
@Comet-hn3gm
@Comet-hn3gm Ай бұрын
@@goldsgarage8236 I did hear the ring size. I missed the torque to rotate. Not too bad.
@BradleyAugustyn
@BradleyAugustyn Ай бұрын
Comp cams XS274S solid lifter cam would give similar RPM range to the original Duntov 30-30 cam. It would make additional power at every point in the range without shifting the range. The choke point will be the cylinder head regardless of the cam chosen. Aluminum "double hump" heads are available from TFS (appears like '186 casting w/accessory holes) and from Speedmaster (appears like a '461 casting wo/accessory holes.) With painted aluminum heads, you would get stock casting appearance with modern port and combustion chamber design. You would also get light weight, easy modification, and easy repair.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Bradley, I will check out the cam. I agree on the TFS heads. My friend Tom used them on his 383 a few years ago because it was going into a 55 Chevrolet truck and he wanted it to look retro. They did well on the dyno even with a bigger engine. AG
@BradleyAugustyn
@BradleyAugustyn Ай бұрын
@@goldsgarage8236 See the dyno test by Richard Holdener "L76 327, how to add 100hp" kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bZ-Hh9thy5mbp6M.html He dyno tests the mechanical lifter comp cam (XS274S) vs the Duntov 30-30 on a stock L76 vintage 327.
@robertandmaxwell
@robertandmaxwell 2 ай бұрын
I have used the COMP 12-673-4 Which is the 30 30 + from their Nostalgia Plus series. It's such a bitchin cam... Sounds perfect, behaves a little better than the Orig etc. I feel it would be perfect for this combo and you won't be disappointed. I almost used it again for my latest build but opted to have a custom version of the -097 Duntov ground instead. Just a little more tame vs the original 30/30 cam.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Robert, info from real experience is valuable. AG
@randypozdnikoff4099
@randypozdnikoff4099 Ай бұрын
I have that Nostalgia 3030 cam and ran the edm solid lifters. Sounds amazing! I have used molybdenum paste as my cam break in lube. Haven't had any issues. I hope to create a combination of big bore and shorter stroke but with 11:1 compression, maybe a 377 and use this cam. Looking forward to dyno days!
@robertandmaxwell
@robertandmaxwell Ай бұрын
@@randypozdnikoff4099 Definitely a good thing to run those cam saver lifters. I always run Crower lifters in my builds and they offer the edm hole version as well as a ground flat alongside the hydraulic versions. Their quality is always top notch IMO.
@robertandmaxwell
@robertandmaxwell Ай бұрын
@@goldsgarage8236 The intake closing point is perfect for the higher compression combo as well. I think it's about 70-72 ABDC. I have an 11:1 350 for a customer coming up soon and was sure to double check that event before committing to the order.
@HeadFlowInc
@HeadFlowInc Ай бұрын
With at least 220 cfm+ you can run the Comp Cams 282S solid lifter cam, I recommend running 1.60 rockers on it. 11.00-1 SCR this combo is proven to make 400+ HP @6500 rpm and 390+ TQ @4500 rpm.
@broncobill54
@broncobill54 4 күн бұрын
The comp cam with 112 LSA Nostalgia 30-30 S is a pretty sweet cam. That’s the one I choose.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 3 күн бұрын
Thanks Bill. That would be my sentimental favorite. We have Tony's cam ordered and will be making more videos about his 302 as soon as it arrives. AG
@broncobill54
@broncobill54 3 күн бұрын
I have that exact cam in a 355 Chevy 79 Z28
@broncobill54
@broncobill54 3 күн бұрын
It’s .012 tight lash not .030 like the 30 30 of old.
@davidholcomb9961
@davidholcomb9961 Ай бұрын
Summit has some circle track cams. It's been said that wedge style chambers work best with narrow lobe separation angles. Of course, your friend Bill Little knows how to make small blocks run so just ask him!
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks David. AG
@kostrans5948
@kostrans5948 Ай бұрын
From Australia here I had my MO 302 rebuilt last year original block and crank aftermarket I beam rods and aftermarket factory style pistons , steel fuellie heads sy1 750 dp and twin point dizzy I wanted to keep it period correct as a lot was missing the cam was A solid cam I lost the cam card from memory it was 230ish /240ish 540ish lift 108 ls the cam was chosen to keep the rpm’s under 6500rpm to preserve the engine , going into my British green z28
@kostrans5948
@kostrans5948 Ай бұрын
Forgot to mention it made 446hp and 396tq
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the info, 446/396 is a great number for 302cu.in. 1.47HP/cu.in. AG
@smilsmff
@smilsmff 2 ай бұрын
Howard's Cams is best bet TFS, Has double Hump heads max flow 250 cfm can be painted to look like factory
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
That is a tempting option. WE used them on a Retro 383 and they worked great. AG
@joracer1
@joracer1 Ай бұрын
We ran off road z28 cam way back.. but these days I'd run solid roller with .550 lift 248 @050 and 108 to 110 CL
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Jo, I used the off road cam also back in the 70's. We didn't have as many choices as we do now. AG
@utahcountypicazospage5412
@utahcountypicazospage5412 Ай бұрын
The last comp cam that you mentioned that the door pattern I believe you said it’s on a 112 go with that one. It will let you idle better since intake a smaller, but still have plenty of nasty top it with the bigger exhaust just a smarter grind.
@reevesautomotivefarm9614
@reevesautomotivefarm9614 Ай бұрын
I feel like the roller cam is the way to go. Knowing what we know today that's going to yield far better performance than the cams GM had to use as a compromise back in the day. I ran a similar spect flat tappit cam in my old 327 for many years. It sounds pretty nasty but still yields reasonable 12 to 14 in of vacuum at idle.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Reeves, a roller will make more power for sure. AG
@____MC____
@____MC____ 2 ай бұрын
Ive done the graphite spray and moly on my last camshaft. I always wondered if it hurts it like having too much zddp.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks MC, not sure how much it helps but pretty sure it doesn't hurt. I will keep doing it. AG
@joe-hp4nk
@joe-hp4nk 2 ай бұрын
If you can dig one up, I would go with a 1st design racing cam #3927140. It has 256 268 @ 50, 469 483 lift, 112 LSA. The GM solid lifters are the best choice for their hard foot but they're hard to fine. the spring to use is #3927142 or equivalent.
@hk45c62
@hk45c62 2 ай бұрын
Elgin Cams still makes a direct copy. Your valve lift numbers are off.
@joe-hp4nk
@joe-hp4nk 2 ай бұрын
@@hk45c62 I got It out of a old GM performance catalog, but I think you're right.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Great info, thanks Joe. AG
@clicks59
@clicks59 Ай бұрын
Great video. I am looking for cam recommendations for my 327, flat tops, stock cast iron 2:02’s, C3BX dual plane. It’s going into a 63 Chevy short bed, 700r4 with a 2500 rpm stall converter and 3:73 gears. It’s mainly street driven but I am not too worried about street-ability. It’s an old build and has an Engle 267/.460 hyd cam. Thanks in advance.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Clicks, the cam you have isn't far off. You have a small displacement engine in a heavy vehicle. How about a COMP 268H? AG
@clicks59
@clicks59 Ай бұрын
@@goldsgarage8236 Thanks! I will check it out.
@MarkOlson-w6r
@MarkOlson-w6r 29 күн бұрын
Hello love the channel and this 302 build you are doing could not come at more perfect time for me. I have 69 z/28 100 percent survivor with beautiful original glacier blue paint. I recently discovered it has two cracked pistons and and I’m looking to rebuild the motor and make it gas friendly for today with a solid roller cam. I’d love to talk about your build for Tony and gets some advice for me.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 29 күн бұрын
sure Mark, you can call me at 226-980-7499. AG
@markmcmullen1371
@markmcmullen1371 2 ай бұрын
My choice for cam would be 112062-10 from Howards, it would bring down the LSA from 114 stock to 110 which would help low end torque and the reduction in duration at .050 would still keep a similar overlay so the exhaust tone I think would the same or better.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the suggestion Mark.AG
@4speed3pedals
@4speed3pedals 2 ай бұрын
LSA actually determines cylinder fillng. Less or more , what to do? David Vizard and Cattle Dog Garage both have the same formula and it is not by coincidence. Cattle Dog Garage expolains it much better and I am not mocking Vizard. Vizard has complimented Cattle Dog for how smoothly he explained what he has trouble doing due to actual brain surgery. Back in the day, we also talked about the 30-30 cam as being the fuelie cam. The Duntov cam was the original 097 cam for the fuel injected 283 released in 1957. The 30-30 is the second iteration for the 327 with fuel injection. Only "younguns? call the 30-30 cam a Duntov. Zora is the godfather of the Corvette and was instrumental with the CERV I and the CERV ii. Camshaft seelection for Z is up to the owner. If I had a numbers matching Z motor, no way would I put a roller camshaft in it. Why? have you ever driven a Corvette with the 365 HP engine? If you haven't then keep your comments to yourself and only say them in front of a mirror for you pleasure. I have experience with 2 factory products products and it was awesome. Today, the people getting into performance are turbo and computer GEEKS. Back in the day, these people would have been a total flop. Now the NHRA caters to this crowd. I love normally aspirated engines and what it takes to make the work and the Z engine worked and the C2 365 hp engine did also. The "Off Road" cams did not kick in until 4,000 rpm but I understand it was a total "rush". My brother put a 350 HP hydraulic cam in a stock bodied '56 Chevy in his 327 and it could pick up one whee on acceleration. Fast? up to the time slip. Can the average person distinguish? NO! Please, go for the repo 30-30 cam. It will be fun with bragging rights.
@lessharratt8719
@lessharratt8719 2 ай бұрын
Agreed.
@leosun8469
@leosun8469 2 ай бұрын
I had a ‘69 Z/28 with the 30/30 cam some time ago- wish I had the car still. That being said, I’ve had other Camaros with a solid lifter sbc, and the 30/30 was ok, but not the best.Definitely old technology and there are FAR better grinds nowadays.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for your point of view 4Speed. You have a strong following. AG
@jimclarke1108
@jimclarke1108 2 ай бұрын
I'm watching with great interest, i have a Holden 304 factory roller hydraulic cam V8 engine, i need some idea of what to fit, oi oi oi🤠
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Jim, always good to hear from you. AG
@HeadFlowInc
@HeadFlowInc Ай бұрын
Factory iron heads, mild port work it’s highly recommended to shoot for a “Net” lift near .525”+ after lash. Don’t kill all the low end drive ability by running too much camshaft. With a 3.00” stroke you won’t need much more than a @.050” 230-235 on a tight LSA; I’d personally recommend an LSA 108-110 Max 112. Note: Factory GM cams were measured differently resulting in way different numbers compared to modern camshaft profiles. If you run a Dontov 30/30 or even the GM LT1 cam the 302 will sound mean but only make power above 4500+ rpm resulting in a nightmare driver in traffic/street.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks HeadFlow, brings back memories of my Z28 when it was new. You make a good point about the duration.AG
@BrandonLeeBrown
@BrandonLeeBrown Ай бұрын
Crower camshaft # 00321, flat tappet solid lifter. 242/248/114 - .482" intake/ .504" exhaust. (This one will sound like the 30-30 camshaft). Crower recommends camshaft # 00322, 248/254/112 - .504" / .528" for the shorter stroke.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Brandon, AG
@tonyguzzo53
@tonyguzzo53 Ай бұрын
Using the David Vizard’s formula LSA should be 111, the Howard’s cam is a great choice only it’s a roller, but the Comp 12-673-4 seems to also be a good choice with 112 LSA
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 27 күн бұрын
Thanks Tony, the 12-673-4 is ordered. AG
@robertwest3093
@robertwest3093 2 ай бұрын
That 1/16 ring package should free up some hp over those old school 5/64 rings. Some production engines are using even thinner 1mm (.039) rings which are roughly half as thick as the old 5/64 rings and are proving that they are durable enough for OEM. Using a solid roller along with the other upgrades should give you a sweet running engine!
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Robert, I forgot to mention in the video, but torque to turn is 20-22 ft.lb. Typically with 5/64 rings is is about 30ft. lb. so it should help. They are also file fit rings. AG
@Gary65-fl4rz
@Gary65-fl4rz Ай бұрын
Another good choice would be Comp 12-309-4 It’s referred to as magnum muscle, a step up from the factory cam. Has .489 lift, 248 duration at .050, and 110 LSA. The shorter duration with the tighter LSA gives almost identical overlap as the stock cam.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Gary, looks like a good option also. AG
@dannydurham5716
@dannydurham5716 2 ай бұрын
I would consider the last cam but with 1.6 rockers on the exhaust Those older cast heads actually did "ok" on exhaust flow especially when you compare side by side to some newer heads
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the info Danny.AG
@leonardfoster6252
@leonardfoster6252 2 ай бұрын
Ag, the bigger Z28 cams set at .022 & .024 valve lash. Z28 optional cam dual four barrel carbs cross ram...
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Leonard, I used one of those cams many years ago.AG
@kevinclemence4661
@kevinclemence4661 Ай бұрын
DV's "128 Formula" has fairly tight specifics with regards to the results. In conversation, it's been said that it targets a in-line valve wedge head with 10.5:1 CR and an average Coefficient of Discharge of the intake valve ( with an good but not trick valve job as seen with a 2.02" valve). The 128 # LCA = 128 - (CID/# of Cylinders/In Valve dia. in inches x 0.91) That gets your 108 LSA for 350 CID. As you state in your video, wander outside of that and the formula has certain caveats. Less CID and the LSA opens up. Better flow via a larger intake valve, wider LSA again. Higher CR, same thing. What I don't know, and I've asked DV directly (still waiting on his email...) is what exactly is that Torque Master cam spec supposed to produce? Best peak torque? Highest average overall torque? No idea. For the record, his Torque Master Cam selecting program and the cam I had designed by Mike Jones (Jones cams) for a drag racing orientated 350 are nearly identical. 108 LSA by the way. When I inquired about a street/strip version for the same engine, Jones spec'd a 110 LSA. As for the 302, it seems to me your targeting more than performance as the sound is a critical element of this build. At least as it appears so from this side of the keyboard. Good luck and following with interest (as always).
@kevinclemence4661
@kevinclemence4661 Ай бұрын
Mr G. Have you come across DV 128 writeup regarding the "rule's" origin and application?
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Kevin, appreciate your comments as always. AG
@shane-222
@shane-222 Ай бұрын
Custom Howard’s cam. Correct valve events are more important than lift, and with OEM castings the roller lift won’t matter anyway. What’s the ported flow??
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Shane, we will flow the heads first. AG
@richb4099
@richb4099 Ай бұрын
If you’ve built 30 engines in the last few years and had zero flat lifter failures, you’re definitely doing things right. What lifters have you been using to have a perfect track record? I read and see so many posts about trashed lifters and cams and see unreal pictures! I Many builders won’t build anything with flat lifters anymore!
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Actually i have used many kinds of lifters. Some quick points, avoid excessive spring pressure, make sure lifters rotate, coat cam and lifters with break in lube, use break in oil with ZDDP, pre-lube the system before starting, avoid cranking the engine before starting, prepare fuel and timing for a quick clean start, vary RPM between 2000-2500RPM for the first 20 minutes of operation at least, I shut down after the first 5-10 minutes and check all the valves, let it cool down, start again. I also use a Moroso Pre-screen on the oil filter. I also hold my breath for the first 20 minutes, not sure if that helps. AG
@richb4099
@richb4099 Ай бұрын
@@goldsgarage8236 That’s pretty much the normal routine for any knowledgeable engine guys. I only ever had one BB Chev that wiped a lobe during its first operation. I built the engine but the owner installed it in his Chevelle and did the initial start and run. It was never much of an issue in the past but sure is now. I used the direct lube Howard’s solid lifters and had zero problems. I am building engines again in an engine shop and we just did a GM crate 602. No problem with the cam and lifters and we dynoed it. Don’t know what cam and lifters went in that one. Most of what I put together lately had roller lifters.
@stevenbean9706
@stevenbean9706 Ай бұрын
ed pink said it best in a lecture i went to when he was talking to a cam manufacturer he asked if it was worth it to degree the cam the manufacturer asked do you know how ? he replied of course the manufacturer said good but bottom line is unless you grind it your not changing much of anything! you are inspecting it for the most part when he gave that speech i put my degree wheel away and got a lift gage that measures actual lift of the lobe i go through and check them if i look at the cam physically and see something i dont like
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Good point Steve, I always use it to verify that the cam is in the right place but seldom move it. AG
@flinch622
@flinch622 2 ай бұрын
Not to disagree with Vizard, but in choosing application, I'm not a max effort engine guy: operating range is my starting point, then I consider overlap before lsa, which then arrives to lift/duration for the heads. I note he does adjust his 128 number as engine size or compression comes into play. He's been plainly honest every time he says "I don't have an opinion - I have a dyno". That cannot be dismissed. I note he adjusts his 128 number [baseline factor for small blocks around 10.5:1] for big blocks and also for higher compression ratios - that is in his videos. I arrive at much the same conclusion as his 128 formula does, although I can't come anywhere close to his testing experience. That seems to be a natural result of lobe intensity limitations being a common denominator to get at other factors. It seems to me that bore size and combustion chamber size are why his [two valve] system works upon plugging in valve diameter, and I arrive by a modestly different approach noting that filling begins by exhaust pulse is key. As I see events during overlap, the bore & chamber size during overlap behave like an accumulator: the larger it is, the more help is needed for that negative signal to develop and be seen by the manifold and that means more overlap - achieved with tighter lsa for the same rpm range. Inverse is true for smaller setups. He notes bbc tend to behave as chronically undervalved, which [to me] illustrates the accumulator effect: smaller chambers [just 2 or 3 cc] wakes things up there. That said, enthusiasts might look at something cam cards can't display for a builder: managing time. A flat VE curves does not exist because the millisecond value for overlap changes throughout the operating range. Less peaky is a compromise for a more consistent response - often how split pattern cams behave. If I didn't screw up my math... a 65 degree overlap at 7000 rpm is a 3 milliseconds window. If I did make a mistake, correction is welcome. Looking forward to how this one turns out, and the gears leave room... heads are part of staying numbers correct? I wonder what the 12-673-4 lobes ground on a 109 vs off the shelf 112 would show on the dyno. I note the low lift choice on solid roller looks like period heads limitations. Ask Howards for real advice but there are two 0.535" lift lobe patterns that might interest: BR237357 (278 degree) and BR243357 (284 degree) - not sure those get you both sound and rpm range you are looking for however except using a 106 lsa.. They are kind enough to put lobe list on their site, unlike some others [thank God for Aussies who fill those gaps].
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Flinch. Great detailed information, I had to read it twice. AG
@johncarson9691
@johncarson9691 2 ай бұрын
Last split duration came is going to be the best id get
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the comment Jon
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Sorry, I spelled your name wrong, John. AG
@pontiac411
@pontiac411 2 ай бұрын
Have you ever checked streach on a rod after torque untorque and retorque 3 times?
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Yes, typically the stretch will increase slightly because friction in the threads will be reduced. AG
@63grandsport11
@63grandsport11 Ай бұрын
🏆
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thank you! AG
@vincemajestyk9497
@vincemajestyk9497 2 ай бұрын
I would keep a solid lifter cam with nearly the same specs as the OE. To get it to 'sound' the same you need to maintain the same duration range, overlap, LSA range. The original I believe had a fairly late exhaust closing event due to the wide LSA and long duration. You need to maintain the original, or nearly the same specs. There's lots of things that contribute to 'sound'. Compression, individual lobe timing events, exhaust. There's only one way to keep the OE sound, use the OE cam or as close to it. I would consider the mechanical Summit cam. I wouldn't go smaller than 112 LSA Compression and exhaust timing and OL will get you the sound. You could speed the ramps up a little bit, but that's going to change the sound too. No rollers, No hydraulic, No 'modern' fast designs. You might need more compression than you have, but if you trim the cam specs down 'slightly' it'll be nearly the same sound as you're after. Almost all the aftermarket of the era had copycat grinds near the OE HP versions. You can find a catalog grind from Crower or ISKY pretty easily. Crane had a massive catalog with some great choices. They had an EXACT copy of the 3849346 cam (967251 their number) listed at 4000-7000 rpm 254/254@ .050. Alternately, you could go with the next choice down F-288-2 ground on 114 248/258 @50 lift is a little over .500 and range is 34-7200 revs. Another one to think about is the F-280-2 ground on 112 about 10 less on the intake side. But I like the F-288-2 as an improvement of the OE with the virtually the same characteristics, but a wider band.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Lots of great info in your comments Vince, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. AG
@gregmaggielipscomb9246
@gregmaggielipscomb9246 Ай бұрын
Nice video, it seems to me that Duntov was actually a Ruskie ? He looked like on of my old relatives.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Greg, AG
@rogerstill719
@rogerstill719 2 ай бұрын
Once you get the heads flowed,then you can choose a Cam. Is it an automatic with a stall or a manual?
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Roger, all Z28's are 4 speed cars and the M21 transmission has 2.20:1 first gear. Tony has a 4.56:1 rear gear in his Z. AG
@Charger1908
@Charger1908 2 ай бұрын
They used the 30-30 duntov cam in the 302 with the cross ram.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the info. AG
@jerryhablitzel3333
@jerryhablitzel3333 2 ай бұрын
I vote for a roller on a 110. I would even see if you could get it ground on a 111. Sometimes for a few more $ you can get it done to your spec. The money vs. accuracy ratio then comes into play.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the comment Jerry. AG
@cedricwilson2055
@cedricwilson2055 Ай бұрын
You should drill the extra lower water passage between the two middle cylinders
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the tip Cedric. AG
@Charger1908
@Charger1908 Ай бұрын
I feel stupid, you stated what I wrote later in your video. I guess I’m too quick to offer my own info at times, my apologies.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
No problem at all, thanks for watching and please keep the comments coming. AG
@pontiac411
@pontiac411 2 ай бұрын
I believe Grumpy ran 109 lsa in his 327 ci engines which I think is in line with DV's. 109 to 110 on a 302 would probably do good.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Good point. Thanks. AG
@Haffschlappe
@Haffschlappe Ай бұрын
Could you please try a Set of 32 Valve heads Made by Thunderpower for Chevy Bigböocks?
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the question. I have never even seen a 32V head for a BBC. AG
@Schlipperschlopper
@Schlipperschlopper Ай бұрын
@@goldsgarage8236 They are for sale by an US company that developed that kind of head for the Army during the 1970s! They still offer those 32V OHV-OHV conversion heads. The company is called valley head service and the heads are called thunderpower 32V they add 170HP without any cam change, I would LOVE to see a true world test of them! Most interestingly they use a pushrod vertical-horizontal patent from 1936 its a german OHV patent used for the first time to get spherical combustion chambers and V arranged valves on the pre war BMW 2 Litre inline 6 from BMW 327/328 sport roadster later used by Frazer Nash and Bristol in UK.
@rogerstill719
@rogerstill719 Ай бұрын
In 1968 Chevrolet went to a larger journal on the crankshaft, so are 1968 and 1969 302's large journals? I'm not including the 400. It has a 2.65 main. I like the saying RPM tales the place of torque. I'd like to see the head flow lift by lift when you are finished with them. I believe that is the only way to choose the right camshaft
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
That is correct Roger. 68-69 crankshafts had large journals, 2.1" and 2.45" . AG
@randyslatton3945
@randyslatton3945 2 ай бұрын
I vote for the comp 12-673-4. Crower has one similar #00322S. I think if hes wanting the best of both sound and performance something needs to change. Tighter lobe separartion more than 110 or more compression to take advantage of more advertised duration.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for your input Randy. AG
@Geezer1320
@Geezer1320 2 ай бұрын
If you put that solid roller in it will fly. When I went to a solid roller I couldn’t believe the difference. But like one other guy commented, you are gonna have to change the valve train significantly.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Geezer, that is good information. .AG
@owennelson9068
@owennelson9068 21 күн бұрын
It’s not too hard to find NOS GM SBC camshafts on many different sites. Why not find a true 30/30 Duntov cam? If the goal is to get that original sound and keep the engine close to original then use the real deal. If the lift isn’t enough for the heads, use a higher ratio rocker. There are many options when it comes to the lifters, I’m sure you know of a good brand with a hardened foot. I’m excited to see what the final decision is!
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 21 күн бұрын
Thanks for your suggestions Owen. AG
@SteveZumpf-bd4hb
@SteveZumpf-bd4hb Ай бұрын
I would run a smaller cam with tighter LSA. Around 244* intake 250* exhaust duration. Around .500 lift. On 108 LSA. It will have a healthy idle while making better low end torque than the huge 30-30 cam. The heads only need to flow about 212 cfm by .450 lift, which on old humps, will require some work but not serious porting.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
That is good info, thanks Steve. AG
@SteveZumpf-bd4hb
@SteveZumpf-bd4hb Ай бұрын
Thanks AG. I am no DV but I have developed my own formulas to calculate minimum port flow, hp, vacuum etc. A 302 @ 7000 rpm requires 212 cfm port flow to make power. So the head needs to flow a minimum of 212 cfm by 92% of max valve lift. I believe the original dz302 had 11:1 compression. With 10.5:1 you can run a little less duration with a tighter LSA to keep the overlap similar for that nasty sound with more torque earlier. I work with Howards a lot. Let me know if you would like a custom recommendation.
@95Sn95
@95Sn95 2 ай бұрын
I hate it when people on forums say the "chevy 302 had a short stroke so its no good on the street" that is moronic its the DZs cam and cam only only the thing that makes the statement is the windsor 302 has the same bore and stroke and there even used in trucks...... I drove a 302 in a 66 el camino 4 speed and it had a nice but milder cam and regular driving it really didnt feel much different than a 350 with similar parts and it spun right up with some rpm. Years ago I bought a summit dz cam for my 350 and chickened outwhen it came time i was afraid it would destroy the TQ i sold it to a guy with an 81 4 speed Z with a warmed over 350 with double humps and even being a old school drsign it still ran like a scalded cat.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing your point of view and experience. AG
@RustyEast
@RustyEast Ай бұрын
So the 68 has vent windows and no shark gills? Or is that just the 67 ?
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Rusty, only 67 had the vent window. AG
@cammontreuil7509
@cammontreuil7509 2 ай бұрын
Why was the 283 better than the 302 ? Considering they are somewhat related.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
They have the same 3" stroke, the 302 has a 4" bore. AG
@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852
@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852 2 ай бұрын
Here's the deal, to be able to pick the close to best cam it is good to see the flow numbers first.🤷 One cam might work great with certain heads but wouldn't be the best choice for a different set of heads. Knowing the flow characteristics will help better determine the closer to optimum performance camshaft. Say if the heads don't start flowing good till after .400" lift and starts to really flow good past .500" lift and tops out over .600" lift you'll be leaving a ton of power on the table if a cam with around .550" lift is chosen. The better choice would be a cam with around .600" plus of lift, .650" to .680" would be just right. But if the heads have really good low lift flow and they top out just above .500" lift that .550" lift cam would be something to consider. You just can't pick a cam and expect whatever set of heads you bolt on to be the best cam for the combo. And another thing, if you want to spin to 10,000 RPM and still make the HP numbers rise, those heads will need to flow a tick over 300 CFM according to the Wallace Racing calculator sight. You might want to re-ask this question after you have flow numbers to post.😎👍
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 2 ай бұрын
Thanks IEGTWOIA, Good point, that is what we are doing. Bill will be flowing the heads before we pick the cam. Remember, this still a street engine so we are not looking for .600" lift or 10,000RPM. Replicating the original 302 is the major priority.
@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852
@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852 Ай бұрын
@@goldsgarage8236 Ok, I watched the video twice and could of swore you said that you were going to dyno the engine to 10,000 RPM.😁🤷 What intake will that have? Would be nice to run an Airgap RPM or just a regular RPM dual plane instead of any crappy factory intake. Are you sure you want it to be a solid cam? Those Summit 4/7 swap flat tappet cams work very well. A 1203 is the stage 4 cam and it works great in a 307 with 3.73:1 gears. With 4.56:1 you could get away with running the 1204 stage 5, 4/7 swap cam in that for a bit more RPM fun. The only reason to run a solid cam is to run more than 6,500 RPM unless you get the trick hydraulic lifters designed to run higher rpm. How much RPM does the customer want to run? That would be something to also know before choosing a cam. I heard stories of those engines revving to 7,000 RPM, if he wants that, one of those flat tappet cams will work with the trick lifters. I would pick the 1204 stage 5 one. This will save him about a 1,000 bucks and will run very well. Just don't get carried away with the porting and use 1.6:1 rockers to grab some of that higher lift air flow. If he has his heart set on a solid cam, don't be afraid of over .600" lift if that's where the flow is. With a solid roller you can get the lift higher without the duration getting to high. Or don't be afraid to use a higher rocker ratio to get to the flow while keeping the duration in check. They make really good springs these days for those higher lifts. Not like back in the day when the Z28 springs were the best out there. To save a ton take a look at the NASCAR used solid roller springs, you can get those for pennies on the dollar and they still have plenty of life left in them.😎👍
@pockets5628
@pockets5628 2 ай бұрын
IMO at lot of the cam choice for the 302 depends on how close you want to duplicate the original sound. If you want the best output, without question I would do a custom solid roller from Chris Straub AFTER you have the head flow numbers. He will not design a cam for you without that info. He can manipulate the valve events to make the sound more radical, but it will have the widest powerband because it's made for the exact combination. Any other cam besides the various versions of the 30-30 or z28 cam you cannot say how close the sound will be to original. Unless you just want it to have a radical racecar sound. Then there are many choices. My choice would be a custom solid roller. You are spending the time/money to modify the heads for maximum output, put the brain of the engine it needs to maximize that head work, as well as make the best driving engine.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Great info, thanks Pockets. AG
@michaelphelps5064
@michaelphelps5064 2 ай бұрын
I would use the copy of the original. With some head work the cam will likely make more power anyway. And you always have the option of increasing your rocker ratio and taking a little lash out to improve lift. But I'm no professional
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
all good points Michael. Thanks for your input. AG
@Haffschlappe
@Haffschlappe Ай бұрын
Try Elgin L46 corvette 3 cam
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Haff. AG
@JimmyMakingitwork
@JimmyMakingitwork Ай бұрын
Many discounted these little mouse powerhouse engines back in the day, until they raced one. Great engine, looking forward to hearing it run. I'd think a similar cam in the 240 @.050 and .490 lift with 112 separation range will be great in it.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Jimmy. AG
@thegdfp6447
@thegdfp6447 2 ай бұрын
A mild solid roller should be more reliable, and a custom grind isn't much more. I'd consider direct-lube lifters for solid flat tappet, though.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
That is good advice. Thanks for commenting. AG
@danielbeiersr3642
@danielbeiersr3642 Ай бұрын
Talk to David Visor about selecting cam
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the suggestion. AG
@dannydurham5716
@dannydurham5716 2 ай бұрын
Are the heads 041? Or 186
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 27 күн бұрын
186. Thanks for the question Danny. AG
@user-yg7ge2fj6w
@user-yg7ge2fj6w Ай бұрын
So, if you wait `till you have your heads ported and look at the flow ratio if the exhaust flows more than 75% more likely a single profile, less than and you might just want a dual profile. PS thanks Mr Vizzard
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Good info, thanks for the input. AG
@deerslayer5863
@deerslayer5863 Ай бұрын
Comp 268h would be a great cam for the build
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Deer, if i recall correctly the 268H is Comps best selling cam, however it is hydraulic and we need a solid lifter cam for this application. AG
@yarrdayarrdayarrda
@yarrdayarrdayarrda 2 ай бұрын
Mechanical roller, although an excellent choice for output, creates a host of issues for the application. You need way more spring, requiring cutting the spring pockets, which is risky on the factory heads. You need roller rockers, which won't fit the Z valve covers, there goes the originality of the car, other Z purists will snub you for it.
@palmergaylord1090
@palmergaylord1090 2 ай бұрын
If it's in your budget run the roller
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Yarrda, all good points, Tony even has the correct "O" stamped factory rockers that he would like to use. AG
@travoywashington7290
@travoywashington7290 2 ай бұрын
I am not knocking you but I am curious why do you call it a Zed28? Is that a Canadian thing?
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Trav, I get this question a lot. Z is pronounced Zed, everywhere in the world except the USA.
@travoywashington7290
@travoywashington7290 Ай бұрын
@@goldsgarage8236 Thanks for the come back. Just so I know. If I come to Canada, and I order something zesty I would tell them to make it zedesty?
@JayDee-bz2ge
@JayDee-bz2ge Ай бұрын
@@goldsgarage8236 how funny, this guy mentioned the same thing i did. Maybe you could listen to some ZED LEPPELIN while building the engine, might help...
@HoosierRooster
@HoosierRooster Ай бұрын
If you're using stock style heads 248 260 on 108
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks Hoosier. AG
@user-uy8wf9ye4i
@user-uy8wf9ye4i 2 ай бұрын
Mine has a 454 lift and 292 duration
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the comment.AG
@mitchellferre1652
@mitchellferre1652 2 ай бұрын
What is a zed 28 ?
@basilcarroll9729
@basilcarroll9729 2 ай бұрын
Zed is widely known to be used in British English .But is also used in almost every English speaking Country.In England, Scotland,Wales,Ireland,Australia, India,Canada and NewZealand., Z is pronounced zed.It's derived from the Greek letter zeta. Zee became the standard way to pronounce Z in the United States in the 19th century. Oh it's a Camaro with the Z28 package.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for helping me with that Carroll. AG
@yarrdayarrdayarrda
@yarrdayarrdayarrda 2 ай бұрын
4:29 That block needs to be decked in the worst way, you can see the waves of the factory broaching, corrosion and scratching from sanding, especially between 4 and 6.
@mikewillett5076
@mikewillett5076 2 ай бұрын
Yep , and he said the block had about as much as can be done to it, lol. Besides getting it flat, a .025" shave (doesn't necessarily HAVE TO be that much) will get that 10.5 up to it's specs of 11:1.
@yarrdayarrdayarrda
@yarrdayarrdayarrda 2 ай бұрын
@@mikewillett5076 The reasoning is the sacred GM stamping, but I fear there'll be gasket sealing issues, especially on an unforgiving steel shim gasket.
@mikeday8826
@mikeday8826 2 ай бұрын
This may be a dumb question, but could you just stop the mill before it gets to the casting number? It's out on the edge, so wouldn't necessarily hurt the head gasket sealing?
@jeffreydurham5342
@jeffreydurham5342 2 ай бұрын
​@@mikeday8826yes, jamsi did it on a 396 to preserve the numbers.Jims automotive machine.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the comments on the block everyone. I'm not sure why it looks like that in the video but Atchison machine checked it and so did I. We will be using a .015" OEM type head gasket as planned. If there are any issues we will have to deal with them. I will report back on this point in future videos. AG
@rogerstill719
@rogerstill719 2 ай бұрын
I ALWAYS use ISKY flat tappet camshafts. They are flame hardened
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
good info, thanks Roger. AG
@yarrdayarrdayarrda
@yarrdayarrdayarrda 2 ай бұрын
How do you choose a cam other than the factory grind? The 302 is the only engine that will massively lose value if you mess with it.
@goldsgarage8236
@goldsgarage8236 Ай бұрын
That's a good point Yarrda and a major consideration in our selection process. AG
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