Glad to hear it.

Glad to hear it. Thank you

No kidding?

@@Everythingblackpowder also Bloke on the range did a video a few years ago I think doing something similar with rifle cartridges. If memory serves one of the cartridges they demonstrated doing this with was taking a 12 gauge 00 buck pellet and putting it on top of an 8mm Lebel case, they had put I think two or three sheets of flash paper and primed the case as normal.

I used to do that except I'd make bullets out of hot glue. The only propulsion needed was the primer. The bullets had to be lubricated otherwise hot glue would build up in the barrel.

I love trail boss and use it all the time. I’m about to test some 5.5gr, 300gr lfp loads

I've been using Trail Boss in my .30-06 to make a light load and also in my .38 Special Snubby pocket pistol for a round I can shoot here on my farm if I need to without having to grab ear protection.

Discontinued!

It's all gone though

I loaded some mousefart 45 Colt loads with titegroup for my sillouette shoot today and the older guys were suggesting trail boss. Too bad I've never seen it for sale at the local shops. Probably is discontinued now

Definitely

Excellent

Grits are for eating, cream of wheat is for filler.

No butter!

Happy to help

Happy to help

Thank you

Thank you

With blackpowder go ahead and experiment. Smokeless, don't vary from the published load data. The pressures are 2 different animals.

Happy to help

Thank you

@@Everythingblackpowder You're Welcome!

I would highly recommend getting into reloading.

Thank you

Interesting. More reason to not use them.

@@Everythingblackpowder There's more to that story. Probably a void or more likely a powder mix up.

@@Michael-rg7mx it was black powder cartridge, it may be a void, but still never had a problem or even heard of one with compressed filler. I always keep the wad, if I use one, at the base of the bullet.

I've always suspected that could happen and even put it in my own comment as a possibility, but wrote that I've never actually seen it happen. Thanks for providing a case where it actually did.

@@jeremiahembs5343 no problem, it was in a beautiful Shiloh sharps too

I’ve seen them but I’ve never tried them.

I haven’t experienced that.

I agree!

Actually gallery guns were invented when blackpowder was the only propellent. The .22 short was the most popular. Most didn't use powder at all as they were all small caliber balls from 22 to 25 cal like the 6mm Flobert as an example and used only a percussion cap to propel the projectile. I'm not aware of any centerfire smokeless gallery guns. Never really researched them though. I do know replica's are still available in Europe. Most people that use centerfire for gallery use a wax bullet and primer...no powder of course.

❤❤❤ its so frustrating when I hear that out of an experienced person's mouth. Total misnomer. Ive even seen it printed on ammo boxes a couple times😬

❤❤❤Amen!!!

Hmm, so I guess that .38 LONG Colt is wrong as well, right? It was the ordinance office that used the "Long" designation to prevent the Colt cartridges from being sent to units with the Schofield Revolvers, since they would be useless. There are commercial loadings from the 1880s marked .45 LONG Colt. It's not something Hollyweird came up with.

So what caliber is a colt 45? Colt made multiple 45 caliber cartridges and they don't want any confusion so saying 45 long colt removes any confusion, just like 41 long colt and 38 long colt, or 22 long rifle.

Thank you

No problem

@@Everythingblackpowder I seem to learn more and more from all of you guys in the black powder community. The info. Is very much appreciated.

Happy to help

Excess space causes air bubble when firing black powder that can rupture cartridge or firearm and makes for uneven powder distribution in the cartridge as the powder settles horizontally when the case is in the firearm so it doesn't burn even. And generally black powder burns much better and more evenly when compressed anyway so it's always best to use a filler if firing reduced loads using black powder cartridges. In muzzle loaders you don't have to worry about it of course because the bullet will be seated against the powder anyway.

I’m sure it would work

@@Everythingblackpowder loaded some up, 15 grain Scheutzen fffg, nitro card, cornmeal, .395 ball, half a nitro card to hold in place. Will have to take the chrony out to see how they do! Might drop medium sized game close range! Keep up the good work brother!

I just tested some 45 Colt, 35gr 3f with a round ball loads and it clocked right at 1000fps.

@@Everythingblackpowder leverguns50 tested my largest bullet at 271 grs out of a Walker I think at 998 fps. I think I can do better. Have found some solutions for my vision issues.

Thank you. Yes I’ve made 45 Cowboy special by cutting 45 Colt down to 45acp length. Starline makes them but every time I look, they are out of stock.

No, but I have heard of people using cotton

It’s a definite possibility

Maybe with a .451 or .452 ball

Wow

I have heard about this with bullseye also, that is why I only use unique for light loads, as their are some other pistol powders that will detonate also. I am not as old as you, but I have been reloading since 1980, and now make or convert brass for obsolete cartridges.

I’m not sure if 2.7 gr of bullseye should be called a light load, at least in the gallery context. With a 148 grain wad cutter it is close if not equal to the typical Federal Match target loads. Certainly light compared to 4.5 grains of Unique using a 168 grain Elmer Keith bullet, or a 357 mag load. I believe the ones that are talked about possibly detonating would be more in the 1-2 grain region, or when using a very small amount of a slow burning powder in a rifle in the attempt to make a gallery load. I’ve read that is a real no-no. I too have been loading for more years than I care to relate, and have had some small loads of bullseye when measure was running low, or an incomplete powder dump and (so far) no issues. I have had more than one squib load where the bullet never cleared the barrel. If that happened to an inexperienced shooter, the next shot would do exactly as described. O.R.

@@oldranger3044 that's why I stayed away from it, besides I always had unique for cast rifle loads, just seemed like I didn't need it on my bench.

You went way under the minimum load. Tell everyone when it comes up. Do not vary from load data from a published resource.

Shorter than 1.6 😉

Sorry. I’ve never used Accurate #5

I’ve never had it happen.

Air space creates a risk of detonation as opposed to a controlled burn rate. Detonations can blow a pistol apart.

If the bullet is tight against a black powder charge it will start moving as it burns. If there is a big air space the black powder will be burning all through the charge as the air compresses. When the bullet starts moving the pressure spikes. People say things like explodes or detonates incorrectly. But the result is a bulge or ring at the thinnest point. This is mainly in a shotgun or rifle. In a revolver the plunger only goes so far. If the ball isn't seated accuracy suffers. In a cartridge it has a huge affect on accuracy. The grain can settle into the powder while driving around. That's why a card is used to separate them. All of this only applies to black powder!!!

nothing... nothing bad happens lol. Gun powder (black powder) burns incredibly fast, regardless of if there's air or not (as a combustion reaction, it does burn slightly faster when under pressure, but not to extent that progressive propellants like smokeless powders do). The only thing that happens with increased dead-air space in the case is a reduction in pressure (since it takes gas to pressurize the dead space) (same phenomena occurs with smokeless powder (20gr of Red Dot in a .45-70 case w/ 500gr bullet vs same loading in a .460SW case) in cartridges and in airguns with excessively long bolt-probes) . If you go ridiculously light (like 5gr in a .45 colt case with a 250gr bullet), you could possibly get a stuck bullet, but even that's not likely in a pistol length barrel. Because the flame spread in Black powder is so rapid (the reason it's still used in modern artillery propellant charges), it's not terribly position sensitive, so as long as the cartridge/load OAL is consistent, the load is consistent (an issue in Muzzle loading guns, since the projectile can move around, that's the reason people back in the day defaulted to placing the projectile against the powder, not for safety reasons (that being said, expect the projectile to move around while you're out and about with the gun, it just happens)). A lot of nonsense exists in the shooting world, especially in modern black powder shooting. It takes a strong-willed person with critical thinking skills and a desire to dive into research to not fall victim to it (because the nonsense is regurgitated ad nauseum on forums, and has an almost cult-like group of true believers, to the point where they make up stories that defy science and logic to substantiate the nonsense and viciously attack those who dissent). Example: not long ago, I had a discussion with someone on a BP related forum that swore up and down that a 60gr charge wasn't enough for hunting anything bigger than rabbit, and he went as far as to claim that he shot an Elk at 40 yards with a rifle musket, loaded with 60gr of powder and a 500 something grain minie-style bullet, and it didn't make it past one lung with a "perfect broadside shot".... meanwhile, I've had that loading go through market steers (we butcher our own beef, I test guns on the carcass from time to time before we skin/gut it out). I've also had people claim .30WCF is too weak for hunting deer (even though it is a popular moose cartridge), and that they/a friend once had to shoot a deer 5 or more times to kill it lol. good to hear about hemp being good charcoal, I've been using dried yard clippings, and that works well too.

I've experimented with different amounts of black powder without any filler or wads to take up space in 38 special before. I went all the way from having just enough powder for the bullet to leave the barrel to a full load and I noticed nothing strange that would indicate anything dangerous. With very light loads the shot sounded more like "floop" than a bang.

No. I’ve never tried filler with smokeless loads but I’ve talked to folks that say it works fine.

Thanks, I am new to this and like the cowboy loads. If it is not needed for smokeless, that's good. Is it because of the burn time for the different loads

Yes it’s 3F Swiss

@@Everythingblackpowder just wow...

I’m not sure, I’ve never tried that. If I was to experiment with that I would change to a slower burning powder like Unique that handles compression better than bullseye.

It will give you a more consistent burn, because the powder is always in the same place in the case. While it's not considered to be necessary, whether or not it's beneficial depends. If the powder takes up most of the case, even if it's not up against the base of the bullet, it's not going to make much, if any, difference. If the charge of powder you're using leaves a lot of air space in the case, it can help. Mostly, I see it recommended for reduced loads in rifles where a pistol powder is used instead of a rifle powder (such as using Trail Boss in a .308 Winchester). Some people also swear by it for smokeless loads in revolver cases, including .38 Special, when using either a reduced (below minimum recommended) charge or when using recommended charge weights of particularly fast powders that don't take up much room in the case. With the latter, the goal is not to create a compressed charge, but rather, just to take up the air space in the case. I've never messed with it myself. I've always preferred to just choose a powder that takes up most of the air space after the bullet is seated.

Hey, very new guy! Just stick to the manual. When you are making fireworks it's no big deal. A gun is a hand held pipe bomb with a soft end. People who experiment usually end up crippled. They always lie and blame it on something else. There are thousands of loads that will work. Practice your technique and precisely follow the load data. To answer your question. Smokeless powder runs away very high pressure. Black powder burns consistently. If you use a pistol load that was worked up with the extra case volume, then use the same load without that space you will get a severe pressure spike. Probably catastrophic. Even something simple like seating depth reduces the volume and boom.

@@Michael-rg7mx you are 100% correct. Unless you have a complete ballistics lab with among other things a pressure gun to record "experiments" leave load development to the pros and USE THE BOOK!.

Yep