Thanks for the redo. I'm very interested in the Needsmore series.

Hopefully, part of this series includes doing some of your own loads with, maybe, the top three performing bullets to see how much tighter you can make those small groups. Maybe shoot at a longer range, for that part, to see how much the factory ammo groups open up. Loving this series.

Wisconsin hunter here! Anywhere from 20 yards to 300 yards where I’m at! Love the content!

Great stuff Eric Thank you for your time hard work and willingness to share your knowledge.

Love the show Jason does a great job with compiling the data and he is a good trigger man. Effective team

Nice video; keep'em coming.

Awesome show guys. Loading for my 6.5 I have found the ideal weight for the twist on the rifle ( T3x CTR) is between 140 and 143 grain. I've gotten hand loads on the stock rifle down to .26 with the Accubond long range (142gr) but unfortunately haven't been able to find the ELD-X bullets themselves, only the factory loaded cartridges. Those ELD-X are my go to for out of box performance and fireformed brass.. haven't stepped up to the big leagues of AMP annealers and Lapua Brass yet like you guys. Thank for this, was an awesome video!

Thanks for putting in all that work... Interesting

I just bought a Savage 6.5 Creedmore Mdl. 10 with a heavy 1 in 8 twist barrel. It was in my price range. I am waiting for the Arken scope I ordered to get here. It seems that I was a day late and a dollar short buying this gun. Your ammo test should save me some money in my own testing. So, you did convince me that in order to get the accuracy I am hoping for then I need a tuner. There is a new 1000 yd. range opening up near my home and hope to shoot often. I really enjoy watching your programs and always learn something new. Not bad for an old fella…lol

The amount of knowledge on this channel is delightful.

Hornady ELD-M = Match ELD-X = hunting - I thought your last video was pretty good despite the audio issue.

I love these videos.

You guys flat putting in work on this, greatly appreciate it

Great info!

Thanks guys. Interesting stuff.

I started shooting in the early 60's and Federal then was the dirtiest, mis-firingest, hang firingist ammo there was. Because I was a kid I bought Federal because it was the cheapest and allowed the lawn mowing money to go the furthest.

Eric, I love your show. I love exploring the minutiae of variables in hand loads and commercial ammunition. Lot to lot variation has been the reason I only buy factory made is when I need brass. The most tested brand was Federal Power Shock .308 150 grain. I had 5 boxes each of 10 different lot numbers. No two lots shot the same. One lot shot MoA. After 2 x 5 shot groups from each lot were test fired; the 9 lots that didn't shoot good were disassembled, inspected, weighed and assessed. 8 of the 9 had charge weights that varied 5 to 7 grains. One lot had a change of powder (from stick to ball) and had a primer change (indicated by different color priming compound). Having averaged the charge weight I reloaded 8 lots to within 0.1 grain. Brass was re sized. Groups shrank from 3 to 5 MoA to around 1. Velocity went from an extreme spread of 200 fps to 20. Remaining components were repurposed for other projects. I've done similar with R1M1, but it's a pain removing the bullet sealant. 7 inch groups to 1.5 I'd love to nerd out with you sometime.

Very useful info for when I am contacted asking what ammo to buy (I’m the gun guy of most people I know) I’ve had fantastic results on stock and custom rifles using hornady eld-m and eld-X factory. I have not shot much else besides Berger and Prime as far as factory ammo is concerned since I load everything else. No surprise that those 3 performed so well.

Good information guys. I hand load but try to help others and have explained the importance of shooting various factory loads to see what shoots best in ones on rifle. This information should help people save money on something that may never shoot.

I just got my 6.5 rifle and picked up a couple boxes each of Hornady American whitetail 129 and eld-x 143.

Good video. This is a great video to show the guy who just buys “what ever “ for His rifle

There must be 1000 ways to test this ammo. I like the way that you did it. I've tested a few, and the only disappointing one that i found was the Nosler match grade ammo. It was about the most expensive 6.5CM, and shot near the worst out of my rifle. My simple test, similar to yours. Thanks for the vid, Erik, Jason Edit, I only shot 6 brands, all match ammo.

Great video. As a future suggestion, assign the different ammo a number and then use a random number generator to pick the shooting order. This will quiet the "experts".

This is Great I have picked Hornady to set a EC Tuner I have on a Bergara Pro 6.5 cre It was shooting very good but with your tuner it is a tack driver Many Thanks

Interesting. My Criterion 6.5 barrel Loves Aguilla. I guess every barrel has a personality.

I love Barnes ttsx. I'm just starting to develop loads for their LRX. I got a 6 ARC gas gun and Hornady Black shot 4 moa. I reloaded 58vmax & 103 eldx with groups from low powder on up and dialed both of them in. None of my reloads shot poorer than the Hornady Black factory load. I loaded Hornady 140 BTHP match for my nephew's 6.5, and he's 3/4 moa. I've had good luck with Federal Premium.

It would be fun to see if you can make the federal shoot

Great show. If ya have no tuner try pushing the seed in .003 at a time. I got creedmoore sports ammo to shoot from 1”+ to under 1/2 by pushing in .012 for my .308. Sure it would work any other seeds. Jason/Erik any input on doin this?

Nice #!!!😊

Always thought of remington and federal as the bottom barrel ammo. Gonna add Aguila to that list now. Thanks for showing us!

Data is always good. The interpretation of that data is where things can get tricky. Especially if you are bringing your bias into it. Attributing poor groups (or tight) to the brands is seemingly very much missing the point that you are actually comparing basically 3 TYPES of ammo (target/hunting/match), of various weights (120 - 143gr), but also of various brands. So variable-control is totally out the window with this very small sampling. And of course as you say, availability is a constraint. Seeing a graph with target/plinking FMJ/TMJ ammo with the biggest spreads (Aguila & Federal) should be no surprise, regardless of Brand. Seeing tightest groups with expensive match should also be no surprise, regardless of Brand. Giving Berger & Hornady a nod because top-shelf ammo was used in those brands is just as faulty as blaming Federal or Aguila for their cheap range-ammo not giving 1/4" groups is misplaced. Loved the data. But the Bias against Federal is a bit odd to see it clouding results interpretation so dramatically. So, the cheapest ammo did worse than the most expensive. You didn't really even discuss prices. But don't buy Federal everyone. I see other commenters eating up that notion. Crazy what people will fall for. Even though actual proper testing with some variable control could actually end up proving that Federal (maybe even their garbage Fusion) might shoot better than anything on the planet. Or maybe it wouldn't. The ONLY thing that the word "Federal" should be used to compare with, should be against "Aguila"...and even that, somewhat different weights. The criticism of use of the word Federal in the other video wasn't because of the fact it's American Eagle - it was because until Apples-to-Apples testing is done, the distinguisher is the TYPE , not the company. Comparing light/fast/cheap range-ammo against heavy/slow/match ammo is great. But if you had used cheap Hornady, against expensive Federal match - and the match shot great - does that make Hornady junk? Of course not. All that said - the fact you guys read & reply to comments, and even re-do videos is next-level. Hopefully any criticism by us (or for sure, me) in the comments is received as intended, and to be of benefit and just making the whole testing be the best it can, or at least better when it can. What you are doing with these rifles is super-interesting, and for me very valuable. I have next to zero attitude about Federal, one way or the other. From the testing I've done, Federal is just like everything else. Some shoots decent in some guns, and some doesn't. The more it costs, the more consistent it generally is. Outliers, too.

A couple years ago when I started shooting 6.5CM I got into using S&B 140gr FMJBT. For me they've been running about 1moa; some groups a little bigger, some a little smaller. I've been thinking about taking a long range class but for that I'll probably go with Hornady Match. Either their 140gr or 147gr ELD.

Not too long ago I think I heard you guys mention that the next step was going to be reloading for the NEEDSmore series. Just wondering when will that start?

Sqi andiscan is the box also there's the bulletseeker mach 4.. you guys should test them both with the labradar

My AR10 loves the ELDMS I get .6 to .75 groups at 100 yards and I'm not a great shooter. I have a Faxon 24" match barrel on it. Amazed at the accuracy for a gas gun!

What is the twist rate of the barrels measured? Lighter does not fit the twist rates maybe. Great info. Thanks for the vid.

Sure the Berger and Federal had low SD but the drastic group size difference appears to consider the bullets themselves and that makes sense. 😉 You bought what was available and all the Good Stuff was gone. I suspect Top Tier Federal would been very satisfying to shoot. 🤷‍♂️ Nice video and thanks for sharing the knowledge.👍👍

It would be Nice if you pulled those rounds appart and weigh the powder and the bullits for consistency.

The Aguila and Federal American Eagle are more like a shotgun pattern ! Sadly I bought 2 boxes of Aquila because I could not get any brass for the last 6 months.

Thank you for proving Federal is garbage ...I always said this. I'm surprized by Barnes and Nosler the most. I have had fairly good results with Norma in multipul calibers and settled with ELDM's for my developements because Bergers are almost 20 cents more a bullet proving you get what you pay for. Great Video! Here was my prediction before watching the results (unEdited) Worst: Agilla,Federal,Winchester,Nosler,Barnes. Best: Berger, Hornady(both),Norma, Sig.

It would be interesting to measure the base to ogive on all these ammo to see 1) how closely their consistency matches the group size results, and 2) How re-seating each type of ammo to closely match the ammo with the best groups would improve the groups of each ammo. For #2 I imagine we’d see much better results, but only because we made the seating depth much more uniform, and not so much because we matched the harmonics of the barrels. Given we’ve already seen that two different barrels produced very similar results with the same ammo, it’s probably not likely that the ammo performed poorly solely because it wasn’t in the correct node. - I guess you could test this too by re-seating each bullet to the average base to ogive measurement of its box. If the ammo does better, you know if was primarily due to inconsistent seating depth. If it only improves marginally, then that would suggest it had more to do with being in the right node for the barrel (but I suspect this would not be the case).

Eric. You showed the accuracy and consistency of the different ammo but you kinda suggested to take the match ammo on a hunt and maybe that’s ok but I would suggest a true hunting round be used

When I first bought my creedmoor I bought federal AE for the brass. It's small primer brass and works ok. I never really even tried to shoot it for groups. That is horrendous.

I see that the Bar (Standard) the Federal Natch King Gold...ir the Federal With Berger Bullets didn't get in the group.They alway h ave th I se at my Academy..But Hor b ady gas shot best for me

How do you keep getting Berger bullets? Or is it a team/sponsor thing?

Why have fluted barrels, which are supposed to cool faster and flex less, fallen out of fashion?

So should I buy the green or black SPS stock? I can’t get over how well it’s keeping up with or surpassing the chassis’d gun.

This is Great , so the question is we know the Hornady at $40 a box is acceptable accuracy, how much is loading your own cost and accuracy will benefit you? Erik please answer

My 6.5 likes the 123gr Lapua Scenar bullets almost as much as my hand loads. Great round for me out to about 600 yards.

I would be curious to see two other variables. First, 5 or 10 rounds shot with the gun in a vise, totally eliminating the shooter, versus the same number of rounds with a prone or bench shooter, whichever they felt was more accurate. Second, the variation from batch to batch. Buy one box now, buy another box in two? months from a different manufacturing run. See if those groups are the same.

Has cryo treating barrels to relieve stress just gone by as a passing phase?

Well, you have shown me the four worst groups I have ever seen from a centerfire rifle!😂 I would like to see you take some of the better loads and see how much the tuner can improve them.

My Bergara HMR likes the 143 ELD-X and my Aero Precision AR10 likes the 129 White tail from Hornady.

Ive never had really good luck with Federal. Federal brass is crap also!!!! As far as factory rounds Hornady is better at least for me!!! The Federal pistol rounds are awesome!!!!

The group you got with the federal American eagle looks like what I got with American eagle in my 30-06. Which my 30-06 can shoot Winchester 180gr ballistic silvertip into one ragged hole at 100 yards. Yeah, I’m not impressed with American eagle in anything larger than 5.56 62gr green tip

This goes to show people, buy one each box of ammo, try and see what YOUR RIFLE likes, not what the box says, or your buddy, or Uncle JOE BLOW. Test your rifle and see what IT LIKES. You don't need fancy setups, just rifle, ammo, targets, sharpie, notepad and dial calipers. Get out there and try out different stuff. Your results my surprise you.

If you take the American Eagle, measure the Base to ogive you will see its all over the place, varied.030” in what I had. Run a seating depth test, find a depth it likes and seat all the bullets at that depth and it will shoot. I did this with American Eagle for .308 with 150 fmjbt and it went from 2-3 moa to around 1moa consistently.

super cool....lets give aguila and federal a second chance do a double blind between them and your premium choice

You were duped into buy the federal and agula shotgun ammo! LoL

Thank you for the very informative data. I have a better idea where to spend my money.

I always thought that Remington ammo was the best ,because there brass was better than Winchester brass to me

You guys need to break some of this Aguila and Federal American into components and see if you can find a reason for this dreadful performance. A lot of people on KZfaq that have tried these brands of ammo have had similar results with no one finding a rifle that will shoot Aguila ammo accurately.

I cant believe the Aguila is that bad they make some pretty good 22WMR... wait thats Fiocchi. Nevermind.

I'm surprised at how horrible the Federal shot. I've never had a problem with Federal Match ammo not shooting in 308.

Wilson combat 20” AR-10 6.5 CM upper. Aquila 140’s off the silhouette at 300 yards. Horrendous. Hornady whitetail, sub MOA. Bergers even better. I’ll just make the Bergers.

I think federal blue box or federal fusion ammo would have been significantly better then there fmj loading but its what they had on the shelf...just do yourself a favor...avoid fmj loads when ammo testing unless you just bang rds thru AR for fun...for the money norma ammo is very good for getting rifle on paper and break in and will kill a deer at 2-300yds no problem

Boys you need bigger target paper 😅

You’d be better off throwing rocks at game than use the federal or agalia. In Ohio most shots are under 200 yards but still at 100 yards and being this bad at two hundred yards it will be twice that. I’m thinking these two manufacturers need to go back and rework everything about these loads.

See if the tuner could tune the federal ammo

Hornady eldx for hunting, hands down, barnes second

I dont understand why people had a issue with the test personally. It looks like you spent money did a test with factory loads and simply showed the results.

Put a magnito speed on and then shoot with lab radar. There is your answer.

Why are people like that, it's all in fun

Aguila. Ah-Gee-La.

Love you guys but this wss too painful to watch. Mass confusion.

First view😎

How in the hell does federal load ammo that freaking bad..?? A shotgun will shoot tighter groups that that at 100 yds ..lol.. freaking hilarious!!! WOW!!!!

Or... Forgot to say .... All this testing & results does nothing.... You need an engineer to to tell you how it should shoot 😆😂😆

I double dog dare!!!everyone loves the 6.5 creed but o but my military bubbly LV's the 308 do the same test 308!Eric Cortina will understand why 308 with in 500yrds 308 is hard to beat.I double dare you to do the same test.CHICKEN!!Do it please let's shut this down ............

I'm a professional shooter. Barnes door lock. Maybe anyone can be a pro chooter

Long and drawn out.