In this episode Trent breaks down how Catholic politicians claim to be faithful to the Church as they work to keep abortion legal.
Пікірлер: 625
@tylerhy13323 жыл бұрын
“I’m vegan but I eat meat… I dare you to revoke my membership with PETA” 😂 I love Trent’s analogies. They’re always spot on
@gfxpimp3 жыл бұрын
I am vegetarian (not quite vegan). I think other people should be free to eat meat, even though I believe it to be a moral abomination. I don't think PETA should expel me for that.
@computationaltheist72673 жыл бұрын
@neil allen The Catholic church has done a lot to fight that issue and has continuously condemned such actions. Stop pretending like that issue has not addressed.
@xiomarablanco65163 жыл бұрын
Boom 💥
@TheMadman911xx3 жыл бұрын
@neil allen Mind explaining the logic behind your interpretation of Mt 18:6-14? I'm really not sure how you've arrived at the conclusions you've stated based on the scripture passage you provided Jesus does (roughly) say it would be better for pedophiles to receive millstone necklaces, but it doesn't prescribe that Christians round up pedophiles and strap millstones around their neck. That said, I agree with you that pedophilia in all institutions, from youth sports programs, daycares, classrooms, and even the Church should be dealt with more decisively than it has in the past; society has failed us in this regard and I'm proud of the steps the Church has made in the last few decades to amend this wrong I'll pray for you, friend. You're casting the image of Satan on others without properly discerning their faith or beliefs, be careful to not let that sever your charity toward others
@rpalmatres58983 жыл бұрын
Great, i bought the wrong shoes, ate a hot dog and now I am getting kicked out of PETA.
@flippaskipskipparooni41503 жыл бұрын
"I wEnT tO cAtHoLiC sChOoL." -A Catholic who has obviously studied and practiced Church doctrine
@brianmccarthy55573 жыл бұрын
I had no idea Cardinal Arinzi had such a sharp sense of humor. He's brilliant!!
@CopyPaste883 жыл бұрын
not even a minute in and Trent is laying down truth bombs
@CopyPaste883 жыл бұрын
@neil allen, the "truth bomb" I'm referring to is Trent's critique of pro-choice politicians accusing the catholic bishops for being, well, catholic. Are you implying, that unless he mentions other causes of suffering and death in the world, he shouldn't have said that? Or even made this video, for that matter?
@TheCounselofTrent3 жыл бұрын
@neil allen Do you post that fact on every KZfaq channel addressing a social ill. Is BLM or the Susan G Komen Foundation a bunch of frauds because they don't address world hunger?
@DF_UniatePapist3 жыл бұрын
@neil allen What does that have to do with anything?
@angelbrother12383 жыл бұрын
@neil allen Neil not in America and we are talking about American stats and the amount of people that starve to death in America is extremely low compared to the babies that are aborted in America . If people saved themselves for marriage we wouldn’t have the abortion problem .
@angelbrother12383 жыл бұрын
@@CopyPaste88 arnas but still we need to call out the death penalty on the same fervor as abortion but Ted lieu instead of admitting that his views on abortion are absolutely wrong and in support of murder he worries about other people’s grave sins . Both democrats and republicans are hypocrites . The democrats are mostly ok with killing innocent babies and the republicans could car less about the poor and homeless .
@carissstewart32113 жыл бұрын
"I refuse to impose my beliefs on others" is a strange claim coming from a career politician. Isn't that his job by passing and enforcing laws?
@jawojnicki3 жыл бұрын
YES! This is the WORST FREAKING ARGUMENT I have ever heard against pro life laws! ALL LAWS impose someone's beliefs on other people! And thank God they do!
@MasterKeyMagic Жыл бұрын
Its the Anarchist view, or anyone who is pro-freedom.
@easy8690 Жыл бұрын
@@MasterKeyMagic lel. How about laws against mass murder? Should those be repealed too? I think sense all anarchists hate laws so much, none should protect them.
@kenanthompson2075 Жыл бұрын
@@MasterKeyMagic Many pro-freedom people try to impose their beliefs on others. Ex. Many would try to pass a law saying that murder should be illegal.
@MasterKeyMagic Жыл бұрын
@@kenanthompson2075 By default you can't be pro-freedom and vote in a dictatorship of the majority. "Pro-freedom people" are left-libertarians where the only rule is controlling others is wrong and doing so allows for the controlled any degree of retaliation against he who trys to control others. Its a volunteer society.
@alexpardon5853 жыл бұрын
We’re so fortunate to have Trent Horn, Catholic Answers, Pints with Aquinas etc to keep us within the bounds of Catholic teaching. They’re teaching us how to reach salvation with great clarity. Pray that Catholic brothers and sisters find a way to learn what the Church actually teaches like we get to do here
@LauraBeeDannon3 жыл бұрын
How to be Christian is good too.
@fragwagon3 жыл бұрын
Ya gotta love that Cardinal Arinze clip. 😂
@lindag13723 жыл бұрын
"I dare you to deny me Holy Communion" Ted Lieu is basically testing God. The priest is an Altar Christus and to dare them to withhold the Eucharist is a form of Pride. Good luck Ted. God resists the proud.
@Black-19103 жыл бұрын
Amen, thank you for your faith and courage in what you do Trent.
@joekey84643 жыл бұрын
That's crazy, no one can fool God, He knows what is in everyone's heart.
@herbpalindrome3 жыл бұрын
Saw Rep Lieu's tweet, got annoyed, clicked it, saw Trent responded, no longer annoyed. Thank you Trent.
@robertbach93763 жыл бұрын
bUt ThE dEaTh PeNaLtY tHo. As if the pope himself in the papal states hasn't enacted the death penalty
@herbpalindrome3 жыл бұрын
@@robertbach9376 seems like you’re demonstrating one of the 6 tactics of Pro-Choice Catholics. Based on Trent’s video, i respond: let’s ban all pope’s that lead government executions from communion. If we do that, do you agree that politicians that support the expansion and funding of legalized abortion should be disallowed from the holy sacrament?
@sorrowfulgrace29843 жыл бұрын
Thank you Trent for explaining this clearly. We need to inform the ignorant. 🙏🏼
@SpiritofAloha113 жыл бұрын
People that shocked me after I realized they're "Catholic" - Biden - pelosi - Lieu - fr James martin
@JJ-zr6fu3 жыл бұрын
AOC
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
@@JJ-zr6fu Cortez is a sore point for me, besides the fact she's Puerto Rican there isn't even a single trivia point about her that's Christian, let alone Catholic and she keeps hammering this home all the time, she considers herself shepardic jewish too but praises pope Francis over some midwit interpretation about amoris laetitia, etc. It's patently aware she's an atheist, why even go through the pageantry of pretending she's Catholic? I don't get it
@EvansSecret3 жыл бұрын
@@Qwerty-jy9mj she’s pandering. She will be whatever religion is the flavor of the week. She’s “Jewish” so she can criticize Israel, she’s “Catholic” so she can praise a misinterpretation of the Pope. If an Imam comes out and says that socialism is the cure for everything, she’ll say she’s Muslim. Not a genuine bone in that woman’s body.
@junacebedo8883 жыл бұрын
I know a young gay neighbor who is everyday in the church praying the Rosary. Doesn't miss Holy Mass but he died of AIDS in his late 20s.
@RumorHazi3 жыл бұрын
A person could call himself a giraffe but that doesn’t make it so. Maybe these folks that you’ve listed USE their Catholicism when it’s convenient. They shut it down when inconvenient truth rears it’s head.
@orbeuniversity3 жыл бұрын
Introduction 3:09 Double-down on being Catholic 4:46 "I can't impose my views" 11:36 Complaining about double-standards 14:28 Focus on ensoulment instead of abortion 20:11 "God gave us free will" 24:07 Misinterpreting Scripture (Coming soon...) @The Counsel of Trent, putting a timeline on your description can really help to go over some of the concepts/conversational tips provided. Thank you very much for all your work.
@f02923 жыл бұрын
Agree that this will be very helpful
@jhoughjr13 жыл бұрын
should've used Roman numerals lol
@junacebedo8883 жыл бұрын
Thanks. Very helpful for quick review
@michaelman957 Жыл бұрын
I often find that taking their arguments and applying the logic to other things - with respect and humility - is effective. That's why i like your stuff, Trent.
@blumusik95723 жыл бұрын
Im Catholic but I would still be vehemently pro life even as an atheist. Killing a helpless innocent creature is an abomination against not only God but against nature. I can see the other side of most arguments but I just cant get there on this issue.
@jendoe94363 жыл бұрын
Anytime I hear any Catholic start with “I’m Catholic, but [insert something completely contrary to Church teaching]”, I immediately want to help them understand! Sometimes their views are shaped out of misinformation or they barely have a rudimentary understanding of their faith. In regards to Pro-choice Catholics, it’s rarely due to lack of knowledge but willful ignorance. They know why the Church teaches what it does and can easily look up extra info, but they've become too ingrained in secular culture and brainwashed into thinking the Church is “old-fashioned and nothing but old, controlling man!” So sad that people choose to live in ignorance rather than learn Truth. 😢 I always try to pray a rosary for those souls and try to live my life in accordance to God’s will.
@josiaMaryjacob3 жыл бұрын
Yes, it is so saddening. No wonder why Francisco said, "God is so sad. If only I could console him !" Let us continue to pray with mother Mary and offer her our rosary prayers for all politicians
@hcho7776 Жыл бұрын
Most anti Catholics are X Catholics.
@katiedid819210 ай бұрын
Thank you Trent. You always give down to earth and clear reasons for defending our Faith. Love the Cardinals explanation of “not imposing my views on others”. That was brilliant. Like your questions about death penalty brings it home. You are a God- send.👏🏻
@McGeeSiding3 жыл бұрын
Excellent breakdown of how the pro-choice politicians justify being Catholic . . . the video clip of the Cardinal's example with Congress was awesome! We need to pray for these pro-choice politicians as well as confront them. They are wrong! Amen!
@Archangel2513 ай бұрын
He’s already been denied Holy Communion. He’s committing sacrilege at this point.
@saintly3653 жыл бұрын
I’m so thankful for your ability to explain things in plain language. 💕
@68008913 жыл бұрын
Two thumbs up on all your arguments !! Keep up the good work.
@voyello3 жыл бұрын
We must also ask about the similarity between death penalty and abortion when they twist things up to confuse us (pro lifers) by asking "why do you support Death penalty ?" Regardless of what answer they give they're gonna be inconsistent and fail the argument .
@hacker4chn8413 жыл бұрын
"I went to Catholic school my whole life" is peak Dunning-Krueger effect. I can't remember if I've said it here or not, but it's still true.
@yankeesuperstar3 жыл бұрын
“I went to Catholic school my whole life”. I don’t know what they’ve taught in our Catholic schools the past fifty years, but it doesn’t look good.
@yvettesam73111 ай бұрын
US Président and Catholic congress men and women have their responsibilities and guilty position towards millions of unborned deads from the threath of prochoice clearly presented with your statement. Tank you so much Trent Horn.
@dianaf.s.13453 жыл бұрын
Great apologetics Trent! Like the use of current examples of public figures stating their beliefs on both sides. Very practical. Keep up the good work. Ave Maria!
@bobseehafer54143 жыл бұрын
This subject stirs up so much anger in me. You know this is a slippery slope. Who is next? The elderly or disabled. The evil that drives this is very strong. We must keep praying for this world to be healed.
@IWasOnceAFetus3 жыл бұрын
You should read up on euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide. The elderly and terminally ill have been on the list for a very long time. Read Wesley J. Smith's "Forced Exit."
@f02923 жыл бұрын
Already happening in Canada
@jendoe94363 жыл бұрын
There’s a country in Europe (can’t remember which though maybe it’s in the northern part) that boasted they had no Down Syndrome kids being born or that the rate was going down. The reason: parents were told the child had strong indicators for being born with Down Syndrome so the parents aborted their babies “to save the child pain and avoid the strain the parents would have to endure.” 😢 I’m not saying taking care of disabled/special needs children is easy at all, but kids aren’t in general and it’s quite a dangerous road to go down. Not too long ago, abortion was forced upon Chinese mothers who had “too many” kids already and was often used to abort girls. Cut to the present and Chinese men have hardly any women to court and untold numbers of girls are no longer there or had to be adopted to other countries to save their lives.
@EpoRose13 жыл бұрын
It’s Iceland who has no children born with Down syndrome. A lot of countries with universal healthcare have a high abortion rate for Down syndrome. In the UK, you can abort up until birth for “serious defects” but it’s not defined what that means. I remember reading about a baby who was aborted at 39 weeks for a cleft palate, a condition that can be corrected with surgery. 39 weeks. All my kids were born during my 38th week of pregnancy.
@jendoe94363 жыл бұрын
@@EpoRose1 that sounds right and it would not surprise me that “serious defects” is not readily defined. Easier to justify abortion for any ‘medical reason.’ Speaking of the UK, wasn’t there a baby born with a rare medical condition that the NHS refused to further treat and encouraged the parents to euthanize? I know President Trump offered to fly the boy and his family on his own dime to a hospital willing to try an experimental surgery, along with the Vatican and some other countries. But the UK denied them that chance and the boy ended up dying. Not saying he would have had survived the surgery or live a long life, but the UK medical board refusing the parents’ choices like that is so dangerous! My older brother was a premie who a nurse said would never make it, now he’s a healthy adult that farms. It infuriates my dad to this day at what she said. Younger brother nearly died in the womb and besides a small stutter (as in actual stutter, not a Biden Gaff) is healthy. This was over 20-30 years ago in a smallish town clinic. The advances made in medicine, surgery, and human understanding is exponential! Why parents think aborting their baby based on the chance they could be born ‘defective’ boggles my mind. I won’t be surprised when “custom babies” become a thing, just disappointed in what we have become as a society 😢
@okayfine623 жыл бұрын
thank you so much for sharing! great points, I learned so much!
@orlandomiguelherrera48883 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this. God bless!
@louistenutajr.13653 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Trent. Once again, the luv of God filled my soul. May everyone be touched by God, just like Zacchaeus. 🙏🏻
@Galantski3 жыл бұрын
*#2 "I can't impose my views"* A rebuttal to this that isn't mentioned, but should be, is that there is one class of people who _necessarily_ are imposed upon in the most impactful of ways by laws defending abortion "rights", yet have absolutely no voice of their own in the debate: _the unborn!_
@Mish8443 жыл бұрын
the point being?
@duckmeat4674 Жыл бұрын
@@Mish844 all laws impose the politicians belief on people. Just because its not religious doesnt mean it doesnt haooen
@Mish844 Жыл бұрын
@@duckmeat4674 no, not all laws impose anyone'a views, cuse not all laws bind. That is in turn because binding is not the only function, the other being protection. To put it into perspective, it's enough to note that law prohibiting religious practices and law protecting them are not equally imposing. People saying "I can't impose my views" know that in some places law ought to protect, not bind, even if that knowledge is only instinctive. In case of i.e abortion laws they know law should protect us from religion
@duckmeat4674 Жыл бұрын
@@Mish844 abortion law is terrible example because then you are imposing the law on the unborn. Watch the video first
@Mish844 Жыл бұрын
@@duckmeat4674 yes, I did watch and this argument of yours is as bad now as it was then. I can't speak to personhood, let alone lawful status of an unborn child, because former is highly questionable, while latter is practically nonexistent. However, I don't have to convince anyone to mother being a full person. We could go around this issue, by adopting a prolife position, which is exceedingly stupid idea when trying to argue for said position, due to classic catch 22.
@hannahalexie51583 жыл бұрын
Denying them the Eucharist is for their own good!
@nathanaelculver53083 жыл бұрын
Wow - Saki couldn’t get away from that question fast enough.
@brianmccarthy55573 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the apologetics lesson. It will be useful.
@davidcole333 Жыл бұрын
"I DARE you" kinda reminds me of little Greta T. "How DARE you." Makes you just want to throw up.
@tomredd90253 жыл бұрын
Excellent overview. Thank you.
@Renkinjutsushi3 жыл бұрын
That passage from Romans 1 is always very chilling to me, it reminds me that I have to make sure that I'm not allowing my pride and hubris lead me away from the Truth.
@princeofthekylineskyline29843 жыл бұрын
Trent, I'm impressed with the content here. Keep it up!
@nicholasolsen46343 жыл бұрын
thanks, Trent, lots of good stuff going on here
@tell-me-a-story-3 ай бұрын
I’m not a Catholic (Still a Christian though) but I still know that life begins at conception because it’s just a fact.
@jonathanstensberg3 жыл бұрын
"I dare you to do X" is a vehement request for you to do X. Rep Lieu is literally asking the Church to deny him holy communion. If the Church were to do it, She would simply be doing what he so passionately requested.
@annakimborahpa3 жыл бұрын
By daring his bishop to deny him participation in the sacraments, Congressman Ted Liu is, in effect, saying to him: "In lieu of enforcing Canon Law, I demand that you permit me unreservedly to make sacrilegious communions that will further fan the flames that await me, either in Hell or Purgatory. Now go sit on the loo and think about that or else listen to Louie Louie by the Kingsmen."
@robertbach93763 жыл бұрын
Purgatory is very optimistic
@annakimborahpa3 жыл бұрын
@@robertbach9376 God is also: (Ezekiel 18:31-32) "Cast away from you all the crimes you have committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, house of Israel? For I find no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies-oracle of the Lord GOD. Turn back and live!"
@Danko_Sekulic3 ай бұрын
Excellent points!
@zuzaninha3 жыл бұрын
Trent, you are the best.
@AntonMCR3 жыл бұрын
Great video, Trent! My only critique is that Paul Ryan was the vice presidential candidate in 2012, not 2008.
@brendanbutler12383 жыл бұрын
This reminds me of slavery, although successive Popes taught against Chattel slavery, many Catholics, including clergy, ignored the teaching.
@JJ-zr6fu3 жыл бұрын
God is Grey (21:10) is hardly christian her basis for a sin is if it causes you to feel shame so literally if you don't feel shame then its not a sin and then like wise it is a sin to cause someone to feel shame. She also claims that saving sex ruined her marriage but she didn't save it for marriage.
@lanapatrick3 жыл бұрын
Great video! Enjoying your content. Keep up the good work! Happy subscriber Oh.. and I still hear Sara Gonzales’ rendition of Nancy Pelosi every time I see NP’s drunk face.
@shawnmathew60783 жыл бұрын
Amazing content 👍
@leekshikapinnamneni48353 жыл бұрын
Thanks for bringing light to this problem once again trend! It is disheartening. I am a Hindu considering Catholicism. What are you do a part two of this episode discussing catholic politicians that are actually doing the right thing? They can be Democrat or Republican but I think it’s important to have positive examples and some hope.
@marianafaria69603 жыл бұрын
Great idea. But a difficult one. To find a devout catholic politician... I live in Brazil, the largest Catholic country in the world and can't remember of a single truly catholic politician. There are several protestants, though. But protestantism comes with looser moral rules...
@leekshikapinnamneni48353 жыл бұрын
@@marianafaria6960 I don’t think that they are perfect examples but there are definitely some who are doing better job than others. Great point by the way.
@TheAaronChand3 жыл бұрын
Why do you want to leave Hinduism for any Abrahamic religions
@andrewpatton51143 жыл бұрын
It used to be possible to be a faithful Catholic and a Democrat, and maybe one day it will be again, but right now, Democrats impose demands that are incompatible with the Catholic Faith.
@leekshikapinnamneni48353 жыл бұрын
@@TheAaronChand Ny Hindu heritage is very important to me however I discovered the Catholic tradition in college and it spoke to me. Social teachings are difficult but beautiful. Great question. I don’t feel like I have anything to lose.
@calebvaughan5873 жыл бұрын
This is probably the most viewed video I’ve ever seen without any dislikes
@joelmontero94393 жыл бұрын
Bro what happened with the camera?😂 God bless you ¡Viva Cristo Rey!
@jotunman6272 жыл бұрын
Taking the Holy Eucharist in a state of sin, invalidates the sacrament and is a sacrilege.
@denisemullarkey5117 Жыл бұрын
I am adoptive mom and life is precious
@bretburgess77273 жыл бұрын
Trent is pumping out the content. It's all great.
@christianjmj64603 жыл бұрын
It’s scary how these politicians can be overtly senseless. Sacred Heart of Jesus have mercy on us. Immaculately Heart of Mary pray for us.
@aplace57913 жыл бұрын
You got the heretic God Is Grey in the video lol Trent is the goat
@ellekayvee59663 жыл бұрын
I hope trent reacts to her videos. Its crazy she has a huge influence
@LeonMortgage3 жыл бұрын
You should put more stuff in your video descriptions. It's free real estate. Links to your website for a newsletter sign up etc.
@windowsoflife3 жыл бұрын
Excellent
@d.a.tsun51043 жыл бұрын
I don't understand. If they're in complete opposite direction of the Catholic doctrine, why not just leave already?
@denniswakabayashi41993 жыл бұрын
How come the Vatican don't kick them out?
@nelsonfernandes57293 жыл бұрын
Psalm 139:15 My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in secret, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
@anthonyburke30003 жыл бұрын
One of the things I believe every layman (including politicians and us normal, everyday peons) is missing about this whole "denying communion" is that this is more of an act of mercy. The bishops would be protecting their sheep by preventing them from drinking judgment unto themselves! This is not an act of denial but an act of protection!
@zacharyahearn4069 Жыл бұрын
My conscience says 2 = 3. I understand the reflexive property which infallibly says that x=x creates tension with my conscience, but I have to go with my conscience at the end of the day.
@kaizer4506 Жыл бұрын
You can also just bypass the argument of religious duty. If you believe the teachings of the Catholic Church, you believe the unborn child is an innocent human life. As a politician, you have a duty to protect those lives
@josephjackson19563 жыл бұрын
The nerve of these people. Only trying to get a response
@pauljasmine3532 жыл бұрын
Ted Lieu should be sent back to CCD and buy a copy of the Catholic Catechism.
@droddick20063 жыл бұрын
Another good one.
@annat42092 жыл бұрын
Is there any way I could give this video more than 1 like? Sooo good
@thomazprimoalves70253 жыл бұрын
Hey, Trent Horn. I am sorry if this comes out the wrong way, but I believe the pro-life people im the US should call the other side of the discussion for what they are: Not pro-choice, but pro-abortion. By accepting their euphemistic term, you are already collaborating with them in softing the issue up, even if your beliefs go in the opposite direction.
@cosmiccatholic28383 жыл бұрын
It seems reasonable to use the terms they want in order not to poisen the well. It will lead to more people changing their minds and hearts, and is much more charitable. Note that this is different than using someones "pronouns" when the pronouns would make us lie. Using the term "pro-choice" is not a lie. It's simply another and more charible way to state their position. No need to have more conflict on this point as there are many other, more important disagreements with the pro-choice crowd we need to get to.
@thomazprimoalves70253 жыл бұрын
@@cosmiccatholic2838 I will have to disagree with you there. That is not being charitable at all. I am all for having a polite and civil discussion, but that should be predicated on truth. That being said, putting the discussion of inocent human life in second place to a sof term as "woman's choice" is addering to an euristic and disonest stance on your opponent. No one that is actually sensible to the issue should pander to that. The way I see it, being charitable is not always the same being pleasant and smooth talking, even more so if you are discussing if something is murder or not. Also, the poison the well doesn't apply, as it is not the intent to disprove what they say based on the use of the right term. It is just stating how it is. The whole discussion can still happen with all honesty. I feel you may mistaking charity for human respect, and those are two different and sometimes opposite things.
@royalsoldierofdrangleic45773 жыл бұрын
@@thomazprimoalves7025 the problem is tha using a "you are pro abortion" and going all-out 9 times out of 10 is useless or would just anger a person, also it helps very little with the discussion And saying pro-choice is not wrong or a lie, they believe that a woman should choose to have an abortion. I see nothing wrong with how they identify themselves, even if the "choice" itself is wrong
@thomazprimoalves70253 жыл бұрын
@@royalsoldierofdrangleic4577 Although this is an interesting subject, this will be my last reply on the topic. Otherwise this will never end. Well, if you truly believe they are right on calling it "a choice", my point still stands firmly. It would be escandalous, for example, to even accept beginning a discussion on "the morality of rape" by calling it "a choice", even if it is by the part of the rapist. If you accept something similar on the issue of killing of a baby in it's mothers womb, you are already losing. No one should aim for being pleasant above being honest. I won't go in an endless loop over this issue, as there are many sides to it, but I do still believe that your reasoning is wrong, and that it serves, in the end, as proof of a succesful manipulation on the other side of the discussion on softing the terms, changing the subject and going on a tangent on the issue of abortion. You can't respond disonesty with flattery and acceptance of an opponents terminology. Tone and urgency are also a part of a discussion, and no one would accept an calm discussion over "was the holocaust wrong?" or "Is rape really that bad?". The way you treat an issue is sometimes as important as the arguments you propose foward or against it. See the concept of Overton Window to understand where I am going with this. If you want an counter-example to the american experience: here in Brazil, where I live, we have severely more strict laws on abortion than probably any the states of the US, and the term used in the discussion is always Abortion, not "choice". If I was a willing to bet, I would guess that if you really dig the cronology of the issue, the use of the term 《choice》 came way before the regulation of abortion, not later. You could infere how it helped on the authorization of abortion from there. But than again, this is a really deep discussion that won't be solved on a youtube comment section. I just hope you can now see my whole point. God Bless!
@cosmiccatholic28383 жыл бұрын
@@thomazprimoalves7025 Thank you for the thoughtful response. I still think referring to someone as Pro-Choice is valid. You are right that human respect and charity don't always line up, but this would be a case where they do. Pro-choice already carries a known meaning in our culture (the view that women have the choice to abort her baby) so using the term already carries with it all the needed weight without, as I said, poiesening the well by calling them something they don't wish to be called. Sometimes compromise on these minor issues is okay, and even prudent (notice I said minor issues). It would be like a protestant calling me (a Catholic) a "Papist". This is obviously a derogatory term in most circles, as it refers to someone who will just do whatever the Pope says or something like that. They could say that they will use thee term because "it's just the truth", but that would not incline me to listen to them as it would make me think they are more interested in scoring points than truth (same if someone referred to me as a "heretic" instead of a catholic) I will stress again that "Pro-choice" is not a lie, as it clearly means, in our culture, someone who thinks women should have the right to kill their baby. It implies evil things already. If we want to win people over with truth and charity, as long as we don't compromise our core values, there is no trouble.
@xiomarablanco65163 жыл бұрын
For those who claims nobody knows when life starts, then if that’s so, we’d better err for life, not death. But everyone knows life start at time of fertilization. A zygote is a human being. Period. Why fool yourself?
@jhoughjr13 жыл бұрын
Most would argue on suffering. We pull the plug on brain dead people all the time assuming they aren't there anymore in the same way an aborted fetus is considered to be not there.
@xiomarablanco65163 жыл бұрын
@@jhoughjr1 but before being aborted that baby was there.😢 And brain dead people still have a soul there, that only God the Creator owns. Life and death is a mystery that need to be treated with dignity and respect. Regarding suffering, there’re two kinds: Wasted Suffering and Redemptive Suffering. Another mystery but we need to trust God. He knows better and love all his creatures.🙏♥️🙏
@jhoughjr13 жыл бұрын
@@xiomarablanco6516 Where is the campaign to keep people on life-support?
@kathleenirish3 жыл бұрын
Because they WANT a different outcome than the truth
@kathleenirish3 жыл бұрын
@@jhoughjr1 you do not understand the issue at all. Natural death proceeds from disconnecting artificial life support. Deliberately killing a human is murder
@annas73503 жыл бұрын
You should do a video with Brenda from God is Grey who you showed in the video. She is cool with talking to people who disagree- probably not a debate but just a conversation would be awesome.
@RamManNo13 жыл бұрын
Does anyone ever walk out of an abortion clinic with a smile on their face? If abortion wasn’t against moral law then why would the thought of doing it invoke such heavy heartedness? It often leaves psyche scarring or depression. How many women have children they love now but had considered abortion earlier and thank God they didn’t go through with it? Why would it invoke such feelings if it wasn’t inherently the wrong choice?
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
We're not far away from that exact outcome, people are becoming more and more morally inept and now grotesque situations like public celebrations for abortions are being pushed into the mainstream
@RamManNo13 жыл бұрын
Qwerty Well I hope not. That would be just plain psychotic. Feeling guilt at least shows you are human. Glorifying the deed would be straight up evil
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
@@RamManNo1 The bishop of New York failed to excommunicate Cuomo after he threw a parade in front of the empire state building which was lit in pink to celebrate the legalization of late term and partial birth abortion.
@patriciagrande3112 жыл бұрын
Thomas More said "If I follow your conscience, will you follow me to hell"
@crenshaw21863 жыл бұрын
Does anybody know of any up-to-date books that help with debating pro choicers?
@cherylschalk91063 жыл бұрын
Well done sir
@albertmacdonald77833 жыл бұрын
They all mock Gid and His Church by claiming to be Catholic then selectively and publicly contradict her teachings thereby putting themselves outside of her. P,us for these so called bishops to ignore their public statements where do they stand when we know Not to condemn error is to condone it and not to defend the truth is to suppress it.
@Anto605553 жыл бұрын
l am with you sir!
@marianafaria69603 жыл бұрын
I often use the sports team analogy... You say your are for this team but keeps cheering for their rival. But... The vegan analogy is way better.
@catholicrakelle3 жыл бұрын
Thank God for Catholic apologists like you, Trent. Thank you. Thank you. 🙏
@augustvonmacksen25263 жыл бұрын
Total stud move calling that representative out.
@HeroQuestFans3 жыл бұрын
take "Catholic" pro-choice arguments and exchange "right to choose/abortion" for "slavery" and see how far you get and why it sounds so ridiculous to faithful Catholics.
@MentalMMManiac3 жыл бұрын
great video
@literary_raven3 жыл бұрын
"Claiming to be wise, they became fools." St Paul, YES🔥👏👏👏
@ThePhil7373 жыл бұрын
So good
@houstonburnside89852 жыл бұрын
The Mario cumo strategy is a personal favorite. However If I was him I would have probably Said something more of like it’s a settled constitutional issue and it’s not up to me because of my oath to uphold the constitution. That is a similar deflection but I think it works better since it makes it an issue out of your hands.
@jhoughjr13 жыл бұрын
nice observation about the soul and on when it is imparted.
@denniswakabayashi41993 жыл бұрын
Didn't catch the part where a soul split into two souls when twinning as in identical twins who came from a single zygote.
@jhoughjr13 жыл бұрын
@@denniswakabayashi4199 He mentioned something about the soul imparted when we are embodied. The zygote split would happen before that. The zygote is not exactly the person anymore than the sperm is. It really doesn't matter though as the existence of a soul is not part of the argument that you are killing a human when they are the most defenseless for reasons of personal convenience. That is why I think the self defense line is a batter pro choice argument. It keeps clear that what is pertinent is when is it justified to kill a human. If someone could time travel to kill a leader before they were born, they would still be killing that person. Just because we are not time traveling to do it, you are still killing a person. I personally dont think abortion should be illegal, just as killing in self defense is not illegal, or in times of war. Abortion wouldn't be an issue were it not for the massive decline in sexual morality the west. Even if we could magically prevent all abortions starting tomorrow, if the underlying moral failing is not rectified it will just continue to get worse.
@denniswakabayashi41993 жыл бұрын
@@jhoughjr1 I know the normal zygote is not a human being because of inherent ability to twin. Don't know exactly what you are saying about ensoulment? Was there one or two souls in the single zygote?
@denniswakabayashi41993 жыл бұрын
@@jhoughjr1 the Prolife recognizes the woman's absolute right to procure an abortion by any means since no one is crying to jail or execute women who abort AND all anti-abortion legislation crafted by the Prolife always give absolute immunity to the woman. Where the Prolife make their fight is attempting to take away the doctor's choice of having women who want to abort as patients. Criminalize and punish the doctor but never the woman. The woman is free to take abortion pills, homemade concoction, use the proverbial coat hanger, go horse back riding, play tackle football, starve yourself, etc. to induce a miscarriage all perfectly legal to the Prolife. OK for the woman to self abort but not ok for the doctor to assist with abortion. Not really anti-abortion but anti-doctor anti-safe abortion.
@denniswakabayashi41993 жыл бұрын
@@jhoughjr1 the Prolife acknowledges "my body my choice" but they some how think they can force women to give birth by taking away the doctor's choice.
@joemetro3523 жыл бұрын
Obviously these people have absolutely no clue what the Church teaches. Wonder how many have ever heard of a book called The Cathechism of the Catholic Church.
@Tameeism3 жыл бұрын
It isn't brave to...if it feels good, do it. It's brave to stand by a conviction...when being criticized.
@Renkinjutsushi3 жыл бұрын
It's sad to see all these people actively eating their own damnation... God have mercy on them and all of us.
@Jimmy-iy9pl2 жыл бұрын
The second argument calls into question the point of laws in general. What are doing but enforcing your views on others when you regulate, say, the exploitation of minors in the workforce?
@ThePhil7373 жыл бұрын
Regarding the second point (personally prolife, but publically pro choice), I like your tactic in Persuasive pro life. You say to ask the person “why are you personally pro life?” It causes them to admit the reality/evil of it which then allows you ask why then should it not be illegal?
@MasterKeyMagic Жыл бұрын
Because controlling people is wrong
@rudymatheson14156 ай бұрын
@@MasterKeyMagicwhy?
@MasterKeyMagic6 ай бұрын
@@rudymatheson1415 Because God gave mankind free will to choose or reject him and interfering with that plan interferes with God's plan.
@MasterKeyMagic6 ай бұрын
@@rudymatheson1415 the fact that you would even ask why is deeply concerning
@6williamson3 жыл бұрын
I think an additional reason to make a strong stand is also to preach to the future. What if in the future, people actually come to believe that abortion is a terrible thing. Might they then blame the church for not taking enough of a stand? Tell me this wouldn't happen.
@wylierichardson-tu6zs8 ай бұрын
It is not likely, because pro-life activists tend to target lawmakers and abortion providers more than religious institutions.
@juanitadudley47883 жыл бұрын
Free will...except when a business or non profit doesn't want to provide certain contraception in their employees health care plans.
@kentfrederick89293 жыл бұрын
Is this any different from a member of the SBC or LDS who doesn't drink but votes, as an elected official, to expand the hours of liquor sales, increase the number of liquor licenses, or permit carry-out alcohol sales?
@verum-in-omnibus10353 жыл бұрын
No, as those man-made religious sects have no authority to do, claim nor demand anything from anyone on earth or in heaven.
@kentfrederick89293 жыл бұрын
@@verum-in-omnibus1035 Well, the Roman Catholic Church is a man-made sect.
@Qwerty-jy9mj3 жыл бұрын
@@kentfrederick8929 A man named Jesus, sure.
@garyworth60463 жыл бұрын
Trent, great video. It seems to me that we live in a society where the majority rules, regardless of the morality of any issue. There are clear problems with majority rule, such a clear majority of a mob thinking they can kill someone in the street, or storm congress. We have become a society where the law enforces morality, eg, murder is wrong, but the majority make the law of the land. Therefore, if the majority of voters support abortion, then we have what we have today. And, let's not kid ourselves, even the Supreme Court, the final recourse for us, bows to majority opinion. And, to boot, as the quality of education in society suffers more and more, the more outlandish future laws will become. The Catholic Church is fast becoming the last bastion of morality and must proceed accordingly, with stoicism, with pointed education first, raising pointed contemporaneous arguments second, and keeping logic and clarity of logic in its arguments. Let's hope we can do it.
@JJ-zr6fu3 жыл бұрын
A small organized minority can can a culture look at the LGBT movement what less than 2%. Good catholics for too long have taken the meaning of a good catholic to be someone who has a good Catholic life that's not enough anymore a good Catholic now must stand up and be vocal. If Catholics organized and made consistent and public pushes for policies then we'd change. March for Life is a start we need more. Think about it these politicians only care about keeping their job and they know which groups will hold them accountable. Why do we keep electing "pro-life" candidates that haven't even managed to defund planned parenthood? Why is it candidates have to sit down with evangelical leaders to get evangelical votes but Biden can hold rosary and given the moral authority to support abortion? No majorities don't rule this country its loud organized minorities. Catholics need to start organizing and we need fighters organizing it not people like Catholic Answers and Trent Horn their great but they aren't willing to put in the work and stick their necks out get stuff done.
@garyworth60463 жыл бұрын
@@JJ-zr6fu56% of Catholics believe abortion is acceptable, 40% don't believe in transubstantiation - and another 15% were honest enough to at least leave to be evangelical about it. 60% believe they can be sorry for this sins and that is equivalent to the sacrament of confession. Throw Biden and Pelosi into that mix, who people might listen to and say they're correct. Face it, we have ignorant Catholics. The majority of Catholics. We must educate our own. Minorities can be squeaky wheels, but majority rules.
@TerryMcKennaFineArt11 ай бұрын
The notion that when life begins proves that that life merits the same respect as a human - born and alive is just not true.
@notfromhere88093 жыл бұрын
Just ask them the question: who are you first and foremost….Catholic or a pro abortion politician? Which one?? Choose? You can’t do both…
@kattula763 жыл бұрын
6 Tactics of Pro-choice (pro-abortion) Catholic Politicians: 3:09 #1: They double-down on being Catholic. 4:46 #2: "I can't impose my views." 11:35 #3: Complaining about double standards. 14:28 #4: Focus on ensoulment instead of abortion. 20:11 #5: "God gave us free will." 21:26 #6: Abuse the rights of conscience.
@MrPeach13 жыл бұрын
I have brought up the soul before in discussion. Because if it is unclear when the soul is stitched to the flesh by the Holy Spirit how can we ever be sure it would be a right practice. Usually the conversation leads to the prochoice person admitting that they have no soul and that's how they justify it.
@patriciajohnson18943 жыл бұрын
All I can say 139. You formed my inward parts. You have covered me in my mother's womb.... You knew me before I was born. Now how beautiful is that.... He KNEW YOU.... and then you get killed before you can get to know Him.........