The arms trick is a good one.

Definitely!

Due to a knee niggle in my first marathon I started to increase my cadence from slightly below 160 to 170. I noticed that I got a little bit faster but was more tired and my heart rate was quite higher than usual. I will for sure use some of the ideas from here.

I've always used and believed in the 'arms first' technique. I have to say though, this is the first time I've actually heard this from anyone on a coaching channel. So congratulations on that. There should be more emphasis on this topic (technique) as it really can allow you to run faster and, help you keep a constant pace without getting tired.

Hi, i have a specific question about this topic - i normally run at a cadence of around 160 spm, and after multiple weeks of trying to increase the cadence on every run, i just simply cannot increase it, despite focusing on it quite a lot during a run. So i am starting to ask myself - is this cadence really too low? Because i watched footages of my running technique and i land directly under my body (centre of gravity)...what i have also noticed is that my heart rate has considerably increased while trying to increase my cadence (which i was unable to, mostly)...so is it really more efficient to increase the cadence if the heart rate increases by 5-10 bpm on average? I hope i have constructed my question in an understandable manner...and i would really really be grateful and appreciate your answer @GTN Thanks in advance 😁

Mine has the same songs in each of the 160, 170 and 180 bpm playlists 😢

And it’s terrible music, I could never run to that meth pop.

I've always used and believed in the 'arms first' technique. I have to say though, this is the first time I've actually heard this from anyone on a coaching channel. There should be more emphasis on this topic (technique) as it really can allow you to run faster and, help you keep a constant pace without getting tired.

I was listening to the radio while running and the song "staying alive came by. It is above my running cadence, but still possible, I googled it and it is at 209 bpm, I think I mostly run at about 200 bpm, I think I am going to use music to get used to different cadences, I think by training at lower BPM's I will gain some muscle strength, which will be helpfull running at my own cadence.

Congratulations! At that age to run like that. My problem is not the cadence, but the pulse. With the increase in the number of steps, the cadence, the heart rate increases, and I don't want to overload myself. So I try to make the pulse 135, possibly 140 (58 years old). At that heart rate, my half marathon is around 2.35. It's important for me to enjoy myself, I don't fight for the result. Greeting

@@pelleruma Thanks for that though, since commenting, I have slowed quite a bit and now am struggling to stay inside of 30 minutes for 5k. The points you make are very much to be heeded. I sometimes push myself so hard that I often wonder if I enjoyed my run, and that is one of the reasons I’ve slowed down. Up until I got a running watch I had no idea as to heart rate but I find that I’m comfortable at around 145. Any more and I get into not enjoying it territory. I’ve actually tried doing a stint of MAF running, where you run strictly to a very low heart rate, though following the exact formula can be overly challenging as it can often involve walking, but it makes runs really enjoyable.

@@geofftoscano6804 That's right. Even I could, at this age, run 5 km in 25/30 minutes, but that's exhausting. Unnecessary, again because of our age. When I was 15, 20, 30 years old and actively engaged in sports, then ok. Now unnecessary. Take it easy, monitor your pulse and if you need to walk for 20.30m and again. Actually that would be jogging I'm talking about. And that's how you can, almost every day, 10km without feeling tired again, but beautiful and I can't wait to do it again tomorrow. I tried to run a marathon in Belgrade (April 28), but I didn't succeed... I ran 31.5 km and had to give up because of leg cramps. I did not prepare enough, because until then I ran 5km, sometimes 10km, which, it turned out, was not enough. Now I'm preparing for next year, using the method - 10km easy, heart rate in zone 2 (up to 129 for me, that's what the watch says) and 10km a week at an average heart rate of 135. So I'll see where it takes me. But I feel much better than when I ran faster and shorter (5km). I took it too long, but maybe it will help someone decide how to run. greeting

Try some 100m sprints repeats on track,maybe even 200m or 400m,once a week between your normal trainings and see what happens after a month.

@@hxxxxwxxx I actually did 10x400m at a pace of 4:00/km yesterday. My cadence was tipping the 180 so that seems to be fine. It's the slow(er) pace where I'm struggling. I see people doing 5:30'ish/km with a cadence of 170+ i just can't. I even tried to keep my cadence with a metronome app, but I'll just go instantly faster lol That's oke on my tempo/interval runs, but not on my easy runs.

My cadence is 165-170. Mid foot strike under my centre of gravity. I can't get it consistently higher.

@@alancooke6630 if you're listening music with your phone during the run you could try to use a cadence app. Im using this one to practice my cadence. play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.frozenape.tempolite

@@MauriceG85 Sorry for late reply,when the big "180 steps/min."came out years ago,i break it down to 3 steps/sec. so I ran my easy run (5:30-6mins/km) with my mind counting 1,2,3,1,2,3... Starts with slower pace and shorter stride length,once you get used to the rhythm you'll found it very easy. After that,you'll probably need to work on higher cadence and lengthen your stride to get some speed.

Jan ran 165-169 spm at Challenge Miami 2021

Buddy how i improve my 5k run in 20 minutes??

This... I've been running for years now and form is a skill that takes years to improve. Even 10 years into running I'm still learning new things.

The 180 standard originated from an observational study of elite athletes. IMO everyone has a natural cadence range that they should be targeting.

Personally, I was over striding: shortening my stride / increasing my pace was critical to getting rid of knee and hip pain that I struggled with for decades, and most people are guilty of the same. I'd certainly try it and see how it feels.

It's not so much cadence, as stride length and overstriding that is the potential negative. Obviously, cadence, stride length and pace are interelated. But cadence is a lot easier to measure than length, so it makes sense to focus on that.

I run between 161-163. My speed is only determined by pass length. When I run 8min miles I run 164, when I run 10 min miles I run 161

@@wilfdarr Same here! Increasing cadence to around 180 and focusing on shortening my strides and running more slowly got rid of most of my pain and allowed me to finally start running long distances again!

They are a show sponsor so they pretty much have to wear them.

@@DigininjaRobin ah didn't pick up on that. still good shoes

@@cwr8618 Mine are OK except in damp conditions when they make a really annoying squelching noise, it is bad enough I find it embarrassing to run in them when it's like that. Dry and wet they are fine, just damp.

@@DigininjaRobin which model do you run? what other shoes do you run in?

@@cwr8618 Don't know the model name, they are dark blue upper, red tread road shoes with cheese wire laces, they are a couple of years old so probably not made any more. Currently running road in a mix of Inov8 Road Claw and New Balance London Marathon. Trail is all Inov8

Hi Andrew, if you are running at a cadence which is higher than usual, you will probably find that your heart rate is higher as the faster SPM will strain your cardiovascular system more. The more you train your cadence at a higher SPM the more acquainted you will become and your heart rate will begin to stabilise over time :) hope this helps!

Nope, for non-athlete a minimum of 170. Athletes cadence is around 180.

I second this.

I run barefoot and in my case that means without shoes, I run with my running club, and I have a cadence far quicker than the rest. I think one of the advantages of barefoot running which is often overlooked is the weight, Think about your legs moving like a system where a mass is being moved by a spring, when reducing weight the frequency of the oscillating mass will go up.

@@klaasdeboer8106 I think you went too far with this 😀. There is some "springy" force in feet but there's none in thighs and glutes which are responsible for the forward - backward movements of legs while running. Barefoot running simply prevents you from long strides and forces you to increase the cadence.

@@inz_uzi Well, in that case you save a lot of energy not accelerating and decelerating the mass of the shoe.

@@klaasdeboer8106 I see you are a fan of barefoot running. I think it's great too. However you need to be realistic. Good running shoes weigh just around 200 g per pair. The benefits outweigh this small penalty. If running without shoes was faster then every pro would do it.

What? Rock is only like 140bpm max, and the genre doesn't even have a set bpm. Some songs have way lower bpm.

As much as I like rock, the BPM generally is just wrong for running. The only exceptions I've found are “Run to the water” by Live, “Guardian” and “That I would be good” by Alanis Morissette Those three are literally the only ones I've found in the 170-180 range! A lot of rap is good for running, and there's some Pop that works too...

Drum and bass is the only consistent genre I can think of that hangs in that 170-180bpm area. It's almost perfect for running.

@@llewodcm20 (Happy) Hardcore and drumstep as well.