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this dude married a child and them complained that she was acting like a child

I feel so so so so so bad for the "young wife" who inspired this article. Her husband is clearly abusing her, and is even asking for more advice on how to abuse her, and her parents are no support for her, not only since they let her marry at 17, but also because when she TRIED to go to her mother for help, her mother just shut her down and told her to talk to her husband about this. AND SHE'S ONLY 18.

I had a guy I was dating tell me that he loved that I was 22 because he could mold me... He was actually stupid enough to say that to me 😂😂😂 you picked the wrong one, buddy!

my favorite thing is when sam uses an american accent sarcastically to mock someone haha

If your wife ever has to say the words "You're not my father" for any reason other than some sort of kinky sexual fetish the two of you mutually have going on (hey, I'm not here to kink shame), then you have really, really messed up in more ways than one, and you should probably reevaluate your entire core thought processes and choices as a human being (I mean yeah, you should probably raise a huge red flag to evaluate yourself when you are a 23 year old actively pursuing minors sexually, but that may be a bit too much to accept and try to fix all at once.)

Any sentence that starts out with “from a biblical perspective...” ends up being the worst sentence ever said by any person

Consent is also sacred for actual Christians. Sin can only happen with full knowledge and total will. Conversely, a good act is also only morally good when done willfully and with full knowledge of the act and its consequences. This is truly evil.

Here’s a thought. Don’t get married to anyone until you both have the maturity to handle adult life.

I grew up in a Christian community. My whole family on both sides were in the pentecostal church. I seen a lot of this type of thing going on. The corruption was so horrid that a woman was forced into marriage to her rapest out of threat of hell fire and excommunication, because they didn't want other churches and families to see the shame of thier daughter being pregnant outside of marriage.

The red flag for this would have and should have been the adult marrying a minor and teenager, essentially. Obviously he was looking for a wife-child and instead got a rebellious teenager.

It’s so interesting to me that Robert and his wife are starting out with a very common problem. Most couples have disagreements about budgeting. There’s so many ways to offer constructive advice for how to solve that disagreement. But the author of this article goes with- if you’re not able to manipulate her into not spending money yet, start off with manipulating her clothing and entertainment choices, then you can move up to the big leagues. Good gravy that man is horrible.

But what if I've been a very bad husband and need to be spanked badly?

I guess when this guy read that a woman is made for the man to be his helpmate, helpmate in Hebrew is actually the same word the Bible used to describe God to the people of Israel. And God is certainly not below Israel. I am certainly a Christian but I fear for these women and men who are trapped in purity culture which causes severe religious trauma. It needs to be stopped at all costs.

This article is unreal. Thank you for sharing. I wish there were a way to study exactly how many people believe in this stuff in a real way. Like how fringe is this...?

The one dislike is someone who brainwashed their young wife.

Well add this to the list of things to make sure you know about your partner before marriage. “Do you believe in spanking your wife to discipline her?” My boyfriend who has never been involved in any church overheard me listening to Jimmy Snow’s video on this and thought this was made up.

i had hoped the title was an exaggeration. Nope. My god, are they actively trying to seem like creeps?

Tanner saying "gotcha" after the quotes about the strawman of grooming == animal cracked me up for some reason.

when they were talking about women being "naturally" submissive to men, my brain went on an Interesting route. "how would they explain pegging?" "probably as a sin." then "well if pegging is a sin then i'd go to hell every night." that is the best thought ive had all day so im gonna leave it here for y'all.

It’s a huge relief to hear your takes on these apologetic articles. I’m a nuanced member surrounded by people who would burn me at the stake if I ever shared some of my opinions that are similar to dive of yours. I’m not alone.

There's another use of the word "grooming," which is that primatologists and other zoologists talk about intra-species grooming between equals, such as one chimpanzee picking nits out of another chimp's back. I think the human equivalent would be fine, but we don't see it much.

BGR needs to be on fbi's watchlist

This reminds me so much of the Handmaid’s Tale when Fred spanks his wife. Disgusting. Wtf is all this?!

Did anyone else get the sense that these “young brides” couldn’t read? The article kept saying “teach your wife” “tell your wife about what’s in the Bible,” lmao 😄

Y'all should take a look at the August 2020 Ensign. It is all about sexuality, and there are some WILD articles on how the Holy Ghost is required for "true" sexual intimacy, and lots of other amazing nuggets

Thanks I hate it

I'm so glad I got out of the patriarchal family model. It's disgusting.

I would love to play Cards Against Humanity with you two! Great job! You always make me smile, in spite of the craziness! You inspire me to have these kinds of conversations out loud too! Yours is the first channel I have decided to support through Patreon!

In several states the age of consent is 17 instead of 18. In a couple states, marrying off a child is legal if a parent signs off on it.

A lesbian, I can’t wait for my matriarchal marriage lmfaooo This guy is so insecure

His ideas of the male and female natures sound like medieval humeral science. Next he'll be suggesting that you never allow your wife to eat spicy food to keep her cold and wet like she should be

omg i was just watching stuff about onision what a coincidence lol

What's wild to me is that I (a practicing roman Catholic, from a devout family) have been literally warned growning up about the kind of man who wrote this article. Absolutely none of the things he's describing would EVER fly in our house. What's more, I asked my Grandmother, who's been Catholic her whole life and is in her mid sixties, and she was never taught these ideals as a young woman. Genuinely, this is just abuse, its wild.

Well, this was...terrifying. Literally outlining abuse and how to get away with it?? I am kind of in shock right now, so thoughts are...yeah.

I can't. I honestly thought that that was a satirical website. So I looked it up and the more I read, the bigger my eyes got. I got more and more horrified, but once I got to the wife-spanking, I had to go. What is wrong with people? What poor Christian wives are putting up with this kind of abuse? The man who wrote that article is a monster and he is not a believer. Neither God nor Jesus would ever sanction abuse or control of women. Biblical submission is not equal to male domination and subjugation.

Damn. This whole article is a gish gallop. Good job on taking the time to tease out each point.

I'm really grateful there are people like you calling these sickos out. Imagine if you are a woman who has only heard that this is the right way to do things. Spanking? When it's not consentual? nope on a rope.

Wow First ! haha BTW I just came to find your lovely channel again, because I'm meeting again (via Zoom) with a pair of young Mormon missionaries, for another street epistemology interview/discussion. This week's topic will be about how they can have confident belief in prophets, especially the 13 alleged prophets living today. Any pointers of what QUESTIONS would be useful to give them to consider would be really helpful 🐢 or any other advice specific for these cult members. (we have a very friendly rapport, and they seem more open to be genuine with me about their beliefs and possible doubts than many others on a mission.)

Welp.....on the other hand, I totally appreciate you talking about this! Thanks for sacrificing your own sanity to keep the community informed on how the "other half" thinks. (I hope it isn't half of the population but you know what I mean!)

You two seem badass. I wanna hang out with you guys! 😂 I went to catholic school for 7 years and I’m so happy that I lost my faith in high school. Was never exposed to this part of Christianity but I remember the amount of shame and guilt I constantly felt. I remember telling a boy I liked him in 1st grade and feeling such an extreme amount of shame and guilt, I thought I was going to hell. I prayed about it for years. I told the priest in confession. (10 Hail Marys and god forgave me) 😂 looking back, I feel so bad for my younger self. I appreciate people like you sharing your stories and opinions.

Wow so disgusting. Can't believe people still think like this! I feel sorry for any woman in this situation. Hopefully she had the intelligence and courage to get out

Yes and many Christians took a stand against that article. Many woman pastors as well! :)

A thought - people who get married at a young age (18 for example) have higher divorce rates. This is because young adulthood is a turbulent period of change, and sometimes people grow apart rather than together. I imagine the kinds of men who write/listen to articles like these might feel threatened by their young wives' growing maturity because it means they'll lose them. Rather than communicating any issues or expressing their fears, these men want to change their wives before they change on their own. They rewire a woman from achieving her personal goals to working towards his goals alone. They cause her to identify her happiness as his happiness alone. She is meant to serve her husband without question and find joy from it. This way, how could she possibly focus on anything else? How could she possibly want more than him? She is conditioned at her most vulnerable period of change so that she will never leave. Some women who go through this struggle to recognize that they are being abused, and when they do, some feel like it is too late for them to get out of the situation because they feel like they have no other options, since they weren't allowed time to reflect on their own life's purpose. But it is NEVER too late.

Just sickening

I'm amazed this dude is even capable of writing an article!

I'm calling it. The "adult/child paradigm" shit he mentions are the mental gymnastics he uses to blur the lines between women and the children he preys on.

BGR: YOU NEED TO MARRY CHILDREN FOR JESUS! Me: FBI OPEN UP!!!!

The beach comment about the 7 year olds resonated a lot with me. I have a 3 year old daughter who loves bopping around topless, bottomless, and just plain naked. I don't blame her! Clothing can be uncomfortable. And ALREADY my family is like, "isn't she getting too old to run around like that" or "don't you think that's a bit strange?" Uhhh... No? She's a toddler and has no concept of whatever gross shit you're implying. (Plus, she potty trained way sooner than her peers and I think the lack of diapers is what really helped!!)

I wish there was more emphasis on the Hebrew translation and context of all these words in bible like "submit" and "head of" . in reference to wives and husband the Hebrew words reveal a military analogy something like " wives should be deployed in support and defense of their husbands" VERY different from what this man wrote about. She's you're teammate! Your best 2nd lieutenant. She's on your side and by your side through thick and thin!

I would LOVE to see a video on the hill cumorah pageant, if you have any experience with it. I was in it for 6 years (my mom is currently the primary president for it) and 2 of those years i was not a believing mormon. it’s so interesting how cult-y it gets, and just throwing this idea out there, but i would love to do some sort of a collab or cameo if you do make a video on it, talking about my experience !!

These poor women who are being conditioned into thinking this is a Biblical marriage by these arrogant, self righteous men. How can a religion that is based on a Savior giving his life for others go so wrong? The Savior who condemned the self righteous Pharisees and Saducees but embraced the wayward souls that were blind, lame and poor. I believe the Bible but the man who wrote this article twisted Scripture so much that I don't even recognize how he got to where he ended up. I apologize for his actions and teachings. This is NOT what Christian Biblical marriage is. This is twisted. I weep for these women...how disturbing. Language fails me for I cannot tell you how much this disturbs me.

YIKES! This can't possibly be real!!! It's the most nauseating thing ever.How in the world do you find these things?!? What woman would stay in a "marriage" such as this?

About 29:30, I agree with Tanner, I feel like Sam is miss reading this part, it does say that husbands can’t deny their wives, but then it saying that wives can’t demand being sexually satisfied. The way I interpreted that is that you’re not supposed to deny your wife sex, but you’re under no obligation to make it good for her. But husbands are allowed that there to demand their wives make it good for them.

I really like this video and I can't believe this man wrote this, it is shocking and upsetting. You made a lot of really excellent points. I just want to point out that you misunderstood the word "ravished" in that proverbs passage. That translation is most likely the King James and so that word is a sort of antiquated one being used in a way we don't use it now. For someone to be ravished by someone else's love would mean to be enraptured by their love. The connotation would be a wild passionate feeling but not a cruel or harmful one. This is not the same thing as saying "to ravish someone" which could possibly mean a rape but it could also be consensual. But this is not saying he should ravish her but he himself should be ravished by her love. The word in the Hebrew, tiš·geh, means something more like exhilarated or even intoxicated. I just wanted to point that out because I have a passion for linguistics but also because I often feel like the King James translation confuses people a lot because a lot of the words it uses are so out of use now and people can be mislead.

If the wife see this, get out while you can. He thinks he's patently better than you and will always be resistant to any valid point you bring up. That's not the way a healthy relationship should be.

I remember seeing “Christian spanking relationships” a couple years ago and being horrified. Like, bdsm is consensual, that’s abuse. It’s honestly just a yikes from me. Those poor women.

I feel so bad for the woman who is being “groomed.”

I’ve never heard of anyone spanking their wife for punishment, this is so bizarre & kinda effed up.

This article sent endless shivers up my spine.

First off, UGH THIS IS SO TOXIC! I wanted to chime in about the husband's requirement to have sex with his wife. It's true that in the Old Testament husbands are commanded by God to grant their wives their "conjugal rights" regularly, but the reverse command is never given to the wife. It's interesting. I'm not sure about the second part of that thought--about how she can't exert force or whatever this guy was saying--I have a feeling that's his own commentary on the matter. 🙄 Anyway, my husband and I (we're both Christians) used very traditional vows in our marriage ceremony, and his portion of the vows included promising me all his "conjugal affections", but mine didn't include the same for him. We both found that interesting!

I am one minute and twenty-nine seconds into this and I just yelled WTF?!

Ok I was definitely wrong about the sex stuff haha, NOT a win for women

Discovered this article a week or two ago...couldn’t even read the whole thing. It was just too much.

Watching this again years later, still makes m so angry that therr are people out there who actually treat women like that.

Those men are sick. They don’t deserve good strong women. Marriage is a partnership and equal. One isn’t in control. Don’t hide behind your religion to abuse your partner. Disgusting and unforgivable. People like that don’t change. Makes me sick.

I’m so uncomfortable right now

Its interesting - the fine line between religious ritual and sado-masochism. Its the game that the religious authority plays. He pulls the strings and plays the congregants. Love you guys.

This is HORRIFYING. Horrifying. I cannot believe this is something people take seriously and “groom” their young wives.

I think one of the most tragic effect of abuse like this is the flinches it will create in other areas of their lives. So sad!

Is the pattern on that bandana elephants? Omg I'm wearing the exact same one almost the exact same way. Lmaoi. It's used as a headband but over my forehead, and under my hair. Too funny and uncanny

A Jesus crispy 26 year old waiter at my 17 year old at the time twin sister’s job preyed on her using religion. “Let’s pray together 😌🙏”, now they’re engaged. I’m a Christian, but it makes me resent religious people.

Ew I remember seeing someone share this. Is this the guy with the gross blog on the same subjects? Edit: NVM it definitely is..

This is literally what they mean by traditional family values. At least in part. So when they talk about the traditional family unit being threatened, they may very well be upset that you want to help less women be spanked/beaten and controlled by their husbands.

As a lifelong pagan feminist this is viscerally repulsive to my deepest core 💀💀💀

The behavioral conditioning associated with spousal abuse is called learned helplessness. In a now disallowed experiment, dogs were subjected to shocks painful enough to cause them to urinate defecate and cry out. They were prevented from escaping the shock. After the shock was administered as sufficient number of times, and escape was offered. However the dogs would simply receive the shocks and no longer attempt to flee even though there was a clear escape.

I keep laughing out loud, but then having to remember THIS IS REAL for some poor young religious wives out there... So I sober up and try to take this absurdity seriously. But god Damn the lack of insight by these pathetic beginner patriarchs is so comedic I must smack my forehead to keep the laughter in 😖

This article is disgusting. I hope the police find and investigate the author.

Dear God. Were did we go wrong?

Now I gotta do some detective work and figure out if me or my partner are in control because we assumed I was pretty fifty/fifty with him this whole time. 🙄🙄🙄🙄

This article does feel like satire, but so gross and seriously whoever this guy is should be investigated.

@1:10 did Sam do a Brooklyn Nine-Nine reference?

I hope I can one day read something like this while laughing instead of feeling horrible because I don't have the finances to leave my extremist community yet and I'm living this. Well....I'm not married but ya know. The gender roles and all that

Is it just me, or is it rather telling that BGR doesn’t stop to address the actual conflict around budgeting and only talks about ‘discipline’. Perhaps he should ask if the wife’s budget includes groceries and other household shopping, because if it does, being consistently over budget may be because she’s a teenager who has (I’m assuming) never lived alone, and maybe they should look over receipts to see where she could cut back, or even if Robert has simply underestimated how much cost an extra person would add to the monthly expenses. Are we talking spending on designer clothes or name brand detergent?

My heartgoes out to the women who are sujected to this utter bullshit. The gender roles website is a how to guide for men to be physically, psychologically, financially and spiritually abusive.

That guy is basically acussing "humanist christians" of being decent human beings. I'm a bisexual, democratic socialst, interseccional feminist, Catholic. I am very proud of being bisexual, of being a democratic socialist, of being an interseccional feminist (i am in favour of abprtion being legal though i wouldn't choose it for myself) and of being Catholic (even though i don't agree with A LOT of thing the church preaches and orders). I do "cherry pick" the bible, but that is because a- everyone does it, and b- there is a lot of things that have to do with the culture of the time and do not apply nowadays. But i follow the most important things i try to respect and love everyone (unless they are abusive assholes) and i try to help people (i volunteer in social organizations and i'm literally studying ingernational reations so i can work with an NGO to help refugees and that was inflienced by my catholicism). I am not a "go every sunday to church" type but i do try to follow Jesus teachings and i just try to be a decent human being (just to clarify, you don't need to be catholic to be a decent human being, everyone can as long as they are not assholes)

The comment section of that article is appalling, mainly because people actually agree with him

Please is there a way to report this website?! The whole website is bad!!

"The context in which you're using this word reflects coercive and manipulative practices." "In some contexts it's not!" "We're not talking about those contexts."

Is this for real??? Insane!!!

“moulding your wife” sounds like some pedo Pygmalion fan fiction Btw love how your tshirt and head band are colour coordinated 💁🏽‍♀️

Uhhhhhhhhhh even if you take the sexual aspect out of the spanking, it's still odd. First off, corporal punishment has been proven not to work well. However, I personally think it's still a good tool for kids as long *as you don't overdo it*. It's something that doesn't (shouldn't) leave lasting damage and shows your child that there are consequences to their actions. The main issue with using it on your wife is that it infantilzes them and means that you can't have an adult conversation with your adult wife. It sets up a framework in which not only are you abusing her, but you can't even treat her like an adult with adult intelligence and autonomy. Wouldn't it make you feel weird to treat your wife like your kids? Furthermore, how will she parent them at all if she doesn't have authority over them? NOT ONLY IS IT ABUSIVE BUT IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE

Spanking should be for sex, not for punishment for spending too much money.

this makes me feel so uncomfortable. im so glad i left the church before i was old enough to get this far.

Corporal punishment is literally the worst way to "punish" anyone. We know this. "God gave them a brain...." No the tree of knowledge gave us a brain. That's the original sin knowing right from wrong. Honestly, could see why the Abrahamic god wouldn't want us knowing that.

I'm not even a christian (I grew up CofE but I guesswhat that guy considers humanist christian?? - in so much as we were not told to treat people like shit) but recently read that proverbs passage (the one about loving/ravishing the wife of your youth) after watching someone reacting to a girl defined vid; the original vid they were trying to say there's lots of places in the bible that have beautiful women but also tried to use it to justify this whole idea of modesty and being beautiful but not seductive (or some bs...idk, it made my eye twitch). They'd done the whole "the bible says in x" (that none specific thing those kind of people do, where they pick a book and a vague passage but no the exact line because that requires research and examining context) & a pet peeve of mine is people using the bible as their excuse to be a shitty human. So of course I had to look up those sections (think it was like proverbs 5 & 7, another proverbs and titus 2 ... surprise surprise not one of them supported their point). Proverbs 5, the one he's referencing (and of course using the King James version as the language in NIV is mildly less problematic), is actually a caution to men about not being adultery, to not go after married/adulterous, it's like "why go after another man's wife when you have a wife at home who can satisfy you." I really shouldn't ever be surprised, yet I always end up that that these imbeciles who use the bible to justify their abusive behaviours not only take out of context and twist the bible to suit their own meaning, they can't even be bothered to find the right passage to support their shitty behaviour - it's the cookie cutter "it's probably in proverbs and hey, I heard this bit once, I can make that work". If they really believed in the bible the way they say then Titus 2:3-5 ("Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God." ) is more in line with what he was looking for, but that would open him up to pointing out the rest of Titus 2 about how men should be behaving (it also has the gross slavery shit in it too though, so... .so let's not put much stock in Titus anyway). I guess my point is, these idiots can't ever seem to even pick the right/appropriate scripture to support their shittynenss, when there's likely a passage or verse to support any of their bad behaviour if they only looked properly; which just confirms they're not even the biblicist they claim but rather they want to use it as a protection of their lousy, outdated treatment of women. That said, anyone who can take and conflate one meaning of grooming with another...I shouldn't be surprised. What a vile man and obviously one of those small weak little men who writes his blog and "mentors couples" as an outlet to the fact that he not only cannot control his wife, but likely she wears the trousers in their relationship & probably is the main breadwinner. Those kinds of relationships never end well, his bitterness will come out one way or another. As for the guy who wrote to him in the first place (if anyone actually did write to him). I hope that the 18yo woman runs as far away as she can while she still can.

Just passed your comment re:kids at the beach. I'm all for children not being sexualised, but the beach example doesn't work for me. I have a 7 year old step-daughter. My partner and I always encourage body confidence and autonomy. With that in mind, I wouldn't shame her at the beach for any exposure she wants at her age, but I am also aware of the two facts that a) there are predatory men out there and b) that it's my partners and my role to protect her from harm... So I'm a bit torn with that. She has dashed through the house nude more than once, but the wider society can be a dangerous place. It's disgusting that there is that need to shield her, but the need IS real...

Quick question. According to the 3 tier (man, woman, child) system of autonomy. Where would this guy fit adult single women into this scheme? Are they not fully autonomous?

I'm sure you already heard, but that section of proverbs is saying to be satisfied with only their wives and to treasure them. It means not to look at other breasts, being ravaged with someone else doesn't mean you do anything other than to be strongly infatuated with. It means have a deep passion for your wife. Choose her. Another way to put it is to fantasize only about your wife.

These guys are a hippie couple that were born two generations late