"This is Atlanta, get it together" from the man who just told them the wrong way to get to where they need to go twice

I love that line: "It's ok. N5173S, possible pilot deviation". That's like when the mafia boss says, "I understand, Luigi, it was just a little mistake. Now step into the wet concrete please"

I have encountered a few snarky controllers over the years as a GA pilot and, yeah, you WANT to tell them to get bent, but escalating the situation is never going to help anything. One thing I absolutely hate is when the controller starts barking out local jargon and landmarks to pilots who aren't from the area. Coming into Westchester, NY a few years ago, they were all horrible about that. I had one controller tell me, as I was setting up for a different approach than I had been planning, to "Put the Verazzano Bridge under your left wing." WTF? From 4000 feet you can see ALL of the bridges leading into Manhattan and I had no idea which ones I was looking at. So I replied, "I can't read the road signs from here. Can you give me a heading and an altitude?"

Roughly one year after getting my license, I was doing some mountain flying with an instructor, during which we went to Innsbruck Airport (LOWI). As we were about to depart, we lined up with the runway, when my FI told me "alright, go on, full power". I quickly refused and reminded him that we were only cleared to line up and wait, what must have slipped past his attention. A few seconds later, we got takeoff clearance and everything was fine. This reminds me everday that even experienced pilots make mistakes and that you shouldn't hesitate to speak up if you think something is wrong. In hindsight I think it was a lucky coincidence that I already had my license because I think if this would have been a flight student, he/she may have taken off without clearance since FIs still represent a certain figure of authority.

"Atlanta Tower, please call yourself. Possible controller deviation"

In 20 years of flying, I only had 3 snotty controllers. 2 of them were in Atlanta airspace.

I remember my first trips up to the northeast. I actually told a couple of controllers: “I’m new to this area up here. If you will talk a little slower I can put this airplane where you need it a lot faster”. I was fortunate enough to have had controllers smart enough to understand what I had told them.

My father was an air traffic controller in the Royal Air Force. I've been to work with him on several occasions and there have been times when he's made me aware of a pilot doing something they shouldn't do, or not doing something they should. Bearing in mind these are highly trained professional pilots familiar with the environment (sometimes a mix of military and civilian). On no occasion did I hear my father correct someone in that manner.

the pilot in the second would have been well justified to say "we were waiting for clearance to cross the runway back to bravo where you told us to go."

I knew that the first pilot took responsibility when he asked THEM for the phone number! I'm hoping the 2nd controller got a talking to at the end of the shift. Have a great week everyone!

In Australia, the words take off are reserved for the specific permission to do so or cancelling such permission. The words are never spoken in any other context. Hence one is trained to listen for that specific phrase before taking off. This saves confusion as well as training minds to respond to the words specifically.

Retired controller... I used to ride the jump seat all the time prior to 9/11. After that they made FAM Flights (Familiarization Training) so difficult it wasn't worth it, but I had an advantage being former USAF aircrew and a private pilot anyway. I worked with a lot of controllers that had no prior aviation experience, some of them were actually good... some not so much.

I was jumpseating (I'm a dispatcher) on a flight to a small airport that gets almost no flights, the only other traffic was general aviation, the controller wasn't speaking super fast, and the FO copying the clearance still copied the wrong taxiway. Both I and the captain spoke up, and he got back on the radio and clarified. Then the captain gave some advice on how he copies clearances to help out the FO in the future. It happens and I feel like controllers sometimes get this idea that it's because pilots aren't taking them seriously - that it's not just an innocent mistake. But nothing could be further from the truth. That's why it's super important for us as dispatchers and for controllers as well to spend some time in that cockpit. I like that dispatchers are required to spend 5 hours a year jumpseating, and I wish controllers had that same requirement we do. I think it would help a lot.

It takes a big man to admit he is wrong. It would be very nice if the controller contacted the pilot in the second incident and admitted there was an error in his instructions, acknowledged the pilot was only trying to follow the controller's directions as given, and that he regrets his unwarranted comment.

As a former Infantry/Armor NCO, I firmly believe in cross-training. That level of experience is sorely under-represented in the private world!

Kudos to ATC for giving him a heading and making sure he was safe before talking about the deviation.

Seems like the controller didn't quite have it together.

Kelsey: "hopefully you're watching this on something bigger than a small phone." Me on a small phone: 👀

Love the channel! Now three years retired, former USMC Aviator [13 yrs.], corporate pilot - GIVs [9 yrs.] and AA 777 International [21 yrs.]. Reminds me that I'm not missing anything. Worst controllers, Philadelphia ramp and ground... Years ago, I was a 40 something salty MD-80 FO. We were given clearance from ramp control... "LT on X taxiway, hold at spot 8 and MONITOR ground." which I read back verbatim. After several minutes waiting at spot 8 and monitoring ground frequency the controller comes up in a condescending tone and says... "Hey American XXX, do you ever plan on contacting ground?" To which my immediate reply was... "No sir, because I know exactly what go to spot 8 and monitor ground means." We were ORD based which should tell you enough. Silence from ground for several seconds then a matter-of-fact taxi clearance. The captain chuckled, put his head in his hand and muttered... "Marines".

This was a great video Kelsey. The ATC controller in the second incident was making mistakes and gave attitude. Not a great combination. Aircrew did exactly what they were instructed to do.

I love how passionate you were about the 2nd controller. I guess you're more critical of pilots because you are one and you can judge them better, and i respect your impartiality. But yeah the 2nd guy's attitude was completely uncalled for, a bit of mutual respect is necessary for every job. I shudder to think what his reaction is when somebody actually messes up.

Once parked the pilot should have called tower “possible tower deviation, tell me when your ready to copy the phone number.”.

I agree. It's called empathy.

The Flight Deck Training program for controllers was suspended during the pandemic and hasn’t come back yet, though there are rumors that it might return in the near- to mid- future. It’s an invaluable thing for controllers and I learned something every time I did it. On the other side of the coin however, I wish pilots would come plug in with us and see what ATC is doing. That being said, if you’re ever flying the 74 into Minneapolis and want to set up a tour let me know. I’d be happy to arrange something.

Let us remember a pilot thinking to have recieved a take-off permission at Tenerife Airport in 1977 with much more profound effects.

Back in the late 1980s I was flying a 767 into Chicago. Landed at night and then were confronted with a sea of blue taxi lights. The captain told me to tell ground that we were unfamiliar with the airport. We were very well taken care of for the taxi in.

“You are in Atlanta now…” wow the egos. I don’t understand why some of these guys are very rude. New York is notorious for having these individuals

I sure hope there was some sort of reprimand for the controller on that last one. I drive commercial busses and we also deal with dispatch. They need to realize the amount of safety that goes into the operation of a vehicle or aircraft with passengers. Always keep a level of respect.

You can't choose your mistakes. You can only alter the odds. Regarding Atlanta, as Captain in the UK, I understood exactly the same as you. Stay on freq and make your own way to the ramp. However, I would have taken the most direct route tbh, but that is not the clearance and the controller should own that one. When I have experienced such things, I just follow the instructions, get the phone number, call up the centre and try and speak to the controller to figure out if I messed up or there was some other confusion.

I was shocked at what that Atlanta controller said! He should be reprimanded for it!

The cure for an ATC with this attitude is not going and flying with a crew for a week, but flying a mop for a week. That has an amazing way of sweetening up a person’s attitude.

After the controller said "get it together" the pilot sould have come back and said "thanks tower that really helped"

Kelsey YOUR AWESOME MAN!!! I have had a deathly fear of flying and im 49 yrs old. After watching EVERY SINGLE ONE of your videos I will be flying round trip with my mother next month from NC to Seattle. Thanks for EVERYTHING you do. If not for you, I WOULD NOT be doing this. If I was younger I would actually consider flight school. Keep it up man!!! I

A mandated scheme whereby part of ATC training and Pilot training is that you both share experiences. This would certainly give each other perspective and understanding. I can't see either communities saying "no" to such an opportunity

As a former law enforcement officer, I see many similarities in your field. I used the rule that " its not what you say its how you say it" that keeps you grounded and professional. Controller had attitude and needs to be set in place by his management.

You mentioned that it would be good for ATC controllers to spend some time in the cockpit periodically. As a retired public safety (Fire / EMS / Police) I felt the same way about responders spending time in dispatch, to see what goes on in a center. In larger areas, a dispatcher is often dealing with several situations, where the responders are dealing with one. Maybe that will reduce some of the “snippyness” coming across the radio. It should also be required for dispatchers to ride with the responders periodically too. My point is that it should be required for controllers to get some flight time in the cockpit, especially at unfamiliar airports, to see what the pilots have to deal with. However, it would probably be good for pilots to spend time in the various ATC facilities (ground, tower, approach, regional, etc), to get a feeling for what they deal with.

Time to bat it back. "Controller, please pull the tapes. We'll discuss this when we've parked."

For a moment I wished the pilots could do a “possible controller deviation, call flight deck at xxx…”

You have some of the most informative aviation videos on KZfaq, and it was one of the things that helped me conquer my fear of flying at the age of 42 just a couple weeks ago. My boss approached me several weeks ago about us needing to travel out of state to do some work for a client. I told him how deathly afraid I was to fly. He was totally cool with it and said he could go alone if I was too scared to fly. I told him I couldn’t do that to him and that I needed to face my fear, but might have a hard time focusing on work when we got to our destination. When I told him that, he offered me the chance to fly anywhere in the country just for the experience and make a fun day of it. So we flew from DFW to Vegas, ate lunch, and then he surprised me with getting to drive a brand new Lamborghini Huracan STO that afternoon as a reward for overcoming my fear. It made for one awesome experience I’ll never forget.

I completely agree with you about the Atlanta controller. That was just unnecessary; hat tip to the folks on the Skywest flight that just said, “sorry”, because “yeah, I can tell by the southern hospitality” might have been my response. Also, this is the first time I’ve heard “on the upper antenna”, good little educational nugget there. Thank you.

I am sure that pilot was cursing to himself, but he handled himself very well

"Possible controller deviation. Please advise when ready to note down my cell to call once I'm at the gate."

Hey, heads up since you mentioned how we can ride on the flight deck. Flight deck training is currently suspended. They shut it down during Covid and haven't turned the program back on. There's a number of people at my tower who would LOVE to do it (including myself), but we can't right now. If you wanted to mention that on your side and see if some pressure from the other side would help get it back online maybe you'd see some more of us.

Nice job, I've had some "irregulat" coments from ATC up here. Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.

Before the days of mobile GPS displays, or even hand helds on the flight deck, I flew into Chicago as an FO for the first time. I prepped before hand, reading charts, getting notes on which runway we would PROBABLY land on, taxiway names to the gate and etc. The aircraft was a 737-200 and it was my leg in from Vancouver. So lots of time to talk to the Captain about the airport and what to expect. Of course, what to expect and what we got were two very different things. On the 737-200, even with it being the FO’s leg; after touchdown and at 60 knots control is passed to the Captain. He has the tiller, the FO did not. There are other reasons but not relevant to this story. As we decelerated out of 60 Knots and the Captain took control, he told me to have a pen and paper ready for the multiple ground and ramp frequencies plus taxiway and turn directions and that they would be coming fast and furious. I told him that I had it under control. Tower switched us over to ground at which point I called: “Chicago ground, Canadian 101 for gate 002, AND WE ARE NEW HERE”. I used a friendly tone and here was the answer: “Roger Canadian 101, welcome to Chicago, follow the United 767 in front of you. I will tell you when to turn into the gate.” The moral of the story is: sometimes it requires a statement to slow down a controller who thinks you know the airport as well as he does. As you stated, we go to multiple airports in a month, all with different procedures and controllers. They only have to worry about one. On a side note, arrival was also multiple altitudes, headings and frequencies in one transmit. At one point the Captain (my leg so he ran the radio) answered after a very complex series of instructions; “could you please repeat everything after the word ‘washing-machine’. The controller chuckled and broke the instructions into simple statements; and then apologized.” I call it Chicago-ese and to a pilot who’s first language is not english, and is arriving for the first time to an unfamiliar airport, all the prep in the world will not cover what ultimately happens. This is a very dynamic industry and arrivals change, runways change, clearances not adhered to, instructions not listened to or misinterpreted. All this must be accommodated and to add machine gun speech (Chicago-ese) does not help. Cheers, Geoff Quickfall BSc, MSc, PhD candidate with 28,000hrs; DC10, B737, B757, B767, B777, B787, DHC2, DHC3, B18 (retired 😊) I kept a small binder 5 by 8 inches. In it was each airport I flew into. It had labels on which frequencies to expect from gate to tower, typical departures and arrivals, and personal notes about what really happens. The notes grew for each arrival and departure that deviated from the expected. I would refer to these as the information in them was not covered by the Jepp’s.

Wow! He took off from the worlds busiest airport without clearance, and it wasn’t a big deal!?! …that’s lucky!

I posted my first and only unauthorized takeoff story in the comments of another video. In a nutshell, it appeared that the controller told me to hold short for takeoff, but he was stepped on, and other than my aircraft ID, all I heard was takeoff. Cleared for immediate takeoff was a common clearance at that busy airport, and I assumed that was what he meant. Never made that mistake again. I suspect the controller discovered he screwed up, as I never heard any more about it.

Our DC9’s used to have a blind spot at the holding area for LHR 09R, we would routinely tune box two which had an upper aerial to avoid that “why is nobody talking to us” feeling.

So much instruction provided by ATC, reminded me of you talking about how pilots deal with it. My brain turned off in half of first message.

That second controller- if he spoke to me like that, I probably would have cried! I'm definitely not cut-out to be a pilot 😂

Props to the first Controller for his clear, concise, and even cadence. Those JFK Controllers could learn a thing or two from this guy.

At ATL, 8L is usually used for landings and 8R is used for takeoffs. The runway closest to the concourses is used for takeoffs. 10/28 is used for both. HOWEVER, they may give clearance for ANYTHING on any runway. The pilot of 713S and the controller get kudos for having a good attitude.

Hey...what ever happened to Stella? I hope she is ok. She just fell off of social media completely.

I really like the 2nd way you showed things. It is much easier to follow during the conversation rather than only at the end.

I work on the logistics building hvac around DFW and I see planes landing every 5 mins one after the other. It’s actually so Fascinating that it’s so safe.

Regarding controllers riding with the crew on the flight deck, I think that is a very good thing. As a retired former train dispatcher, we were required to ride the locomotive of trains across our territory now and then for familiarization. There was no better experience as far as understanding who (train and crew) you are controlling. What they see and how they have to operate are no more than in the imagination of a dispatcher who has not seen the missing part of their "big 360". Meeting the crews face-to-face is also a very positive addition to what are all part of CRM, which is really more than just the cab of the locomotive. Working together in all aspects is CRM Plus (if you will) and adds that much more to the bottom line, safety.

Southern hospitality is rarely found in big southern cities. Anytime you get too many people bunched up together too close, common courtesy goes out the window.

Oops… my bad. IMHO… annual ride alongs for controllers should be mandatory.

I know pilots should ask for the instructions again if they are unclear but for all of the reasons you mentioned in this video I have always wondered why controllers need to speak so quickly. I also like your idea of getting them into the cockpit for a week to get the full perspective from the other side. In fact, it should be a mandatory part of their training. After all, everyone SHOULD be doing their part to making the skies as safe as possible.

Stella!!!! I am so glad you put that clip in there from flying with her. We miss her posts so much! I hope you do another video with her. Love your vids!!

I think it goes both ways. I think pilots get tunnel vision and should sit in the tower for a while to see the entire chess board.

Possible controller deviation, please say when ready to take down a phone number.

I'm learning so much about aviation on this channel. Especially about proper communication and how to handle / understand all the stuff in reality not just theoretically. Thanks Kelsey!

One thing I noticed in the second clip is that the pilot says "delta 26" for their gate assignment. In Atlanta, they use "dixie" for the letter "D" instead of the usual "delta" in the ICAO speaking alphabet to avoid confusion with Delta Airlines. I take it to mean the pilots were not familiar with ATL at all.

Pilots should have a number to give to shitty controllers with the announcement "possible controller deviation"

I hear you Kelsey, I've been based in Atlanta for 4 years now, that controller would have gotten an earful from me if he gave me garbage instructions like that.

“Just don’t stop” is the rule for the entire city of Chicago. If you’re in a plane, a car, or on foot. It doesn’t matter if you’re lost or confused or where you need to be. Just keep it moving.

Thank you for sharing the technical excellence required of aviators and traffic controllers; one can only show respect! There is so much on the line every day and the obvious education, skills, experience, knowledge, and communication requirements of the job are just awe-inspiring.... THANK YOU TO ALL IN THE AVIATION INDUSTRY FOR WHAT YOU DO TO KEEP PASSENGERS SAFE.

Re the Skywest flight... it's too bad the pilot can't get on the radio to tower and say "Possible controller deviation" and make them call a number. ;^)

Happy Sunday, Kelsey!!!😊😊

Ah yes, that type of controller who gets upset with you because of his own mistake. Classic. Then when you point out his mistake he gets even angrier and denies it like a little child.

Kelsey I really enjoy these ATC communication videos keep them coming

I see a big problem especially with some ground and tower controllers - especially at major sirports - in the USA. Many of them think that they are the best and absolutely infallible. However, both is very often not true. The only thing that keeps me calm is that I know that all conversations are recorded and it can be clarified very quickly and clearly who is responsible for any mistakes.

Reminds me of the time I was flying with my brother in law in his Cessna. He was a United 737 captain. He landed at YKM without bothering to contact the control tower. He got a stern rebuke.

I enjoy your channel so much. The interaction between the air controllers and pilots are so interesting and educational. Listening to this makes better pilots of all of us.

I think your overall analysis is great, thank you so much.

If a controller speaks to me like that Atlanta guy did, I am calling out on radio Possible Controller Deviation.

At ATL, we never use the opposite runway name... that's a quick way to cause confusion. Always use the runway name for the operation we are in (east or west operation)

First time on your channel. You're an awesome speaker. 👍

If you have not already done a video, maybe you could discuss the various air traffic control (ATC) facilities, that a pilot may have do deal with, especially at larger airports, such as ground, tower, approach and regional, etc. Also, discuss what you as a pilot deal with in the process of pulling away from the gate, getting taxi instructions, take off, flying between various approaches & regional centers, all the way to the gate at your destination.

I see- they had already made a left turn on bravo from bravo3 BEFORE they crossed 26L. After crossing 26L it should have been "left on echo". Hopefully a supervisor will become aware of the controllers behavior. Great video. I enjoy these.

Another great debrief... love the chart usage

I follow several aviation sites, and your is the BEST by far!- signed, A very fearful flyer lol

I notice how most of the latest Kelsey's "ATC vs Pilots" videos are about "Ground" or "Ramp". This highlights how ground movement is a huge other part of flying that is self-sufficient and vast to explore, learn and storytell about in itself, you don't even need to include any airborne parts of the trip in the story, it's a full-blown aviation developing solely on the ground. On the other hand, I wonder why there've been practicaly no airborne ATC vs Pilots videos among the latest of this series...

Pilot: “Hey Controller, I have a number for you to call.”

i feel like a little bit of text based communication in addition to the radio could make a lot of things more relaxed

I read this off of one of the funny ATC/Pilot conversations, and goes along with what you are talking about thte Atlanta controler. Allegedly the German air controllers at Frankfurt Airport are renowned as a short-tempered lot. They, it is alleged, not only expect one to know one's gate parking location, but how to get there without any assistance from them. So it was with some amusement that we (a Pan Am 747) listened to the following exchange between Frankfurt ground control and a British Airways 747, call sign Speedbird 206. Speedbird 206: "Frankfurt, Speedbird 206 clear of active runway." Ground: "Speedbird 206 taxi to gate Alpha One-Seven." The BA 747 pulled onto the main taxiway and slowed to a stop. Ground: "Speedbird, do you not know where you are going?" Speedbird 206: "Stand by, Ground, I'm looking up our gate location now." Ground (with quite arrogant impatience): "Speedbird 206, have you not been to Frankfurt before?" Speedbird 206 (coolly): "Yes, twice in 1944, but it was dark ... and I didn't land."

Thanks for giving us a peek behind the curtain with your videos. I'm always eager to watch your content.

I know controllers are under a lot of pressure to keep thing moving but that was a situation he caused himself.

If a pilot screws up, control gives them a number to call. What happens when it is he control that screwed up? Can the pilot give them a number to call?

I’m a new CFI and I really enjoy your videos. Seeing how you dissect all these little details has been invaluable to my education as a pilot. Thank you!

My daughter is a sophomore in high school and has had her heart set on becoming a pilot for 6 years now. Watching your videos has helped to ease my mind.

Oh my gosh, that controller was so rude. Must’ve been a bad day or not.😂

A big hello from a small town Thurles in Ireland 🇮🇪

“This is Atlanta, get it together" might be the shortening to say “now you know this is Atlanta and so we mess it up… get it together”

There's no walk of life that being snooty is beneficial. Well, maybe if you are a guard in a high security prison. But, mostly, being polite is always best and produces the best results. The pilot is a gem and everyone could benifit by following her example. Great video!

Alberta Emergency Medical Services and Edmonton Police Service both encourage 9-1-1 despatchers to ride along with crews to get an idea of what it's like on the road. I don't know how often it actually happens, though, and I'm under the impression that the reverse - getting field personnel in the despatch centre to get an idea of what it's like to only have a computer screen and a radio link to what's actually happening - is not encouraged nearly as well.

Hey Kelsey, good video. That second controller was a piece of work, hopefully he sees this. But I'm betting he thought he was being nice. I'm not a pro pilot, but my procedure is to write every taxi instruction down, even at places I know really well, trace it mentally on the taxi diagram, then go. The pilot missed the controller saying Bravo instead of Echo (I did too listening to it, but I wasn't taxiing.) She should have caught it and challenged it, but whatever. All turned out ok in the end. New York tracon controllers can be pieces of work, I reacted before as you said you might have here. But I don't do that anymore, not worth the agita. I've decided that it is not worth getting testy with them and trying to extract my pound of flesh. My goal is to get what I need out of them, that's it. It's nice when the exchanges are cordial, but sometimes things happen. If one is snitty with me, I kill them with kindness, let it roll off my back. Quite honestly even most of the jerks, who are pretty rare, will bend over backward to help if they realize you need it. There is a podcast by two pilot/ATC controllers called "Opposing Bases". They give some great insight into why controllers do what they do, the methodology, and how to anticipate what's going to happen. If you haven't listened to it yet, it's well worth the time. Lot's of insight. They agree with you that controllers should fly with pilots to see what it's like. Most controllers have no idea. It's also great for pilots to understand what controllers have on their plate, and 'Opposing Bases' is a great place to get some understanding. I enjoy your videos.

Thank you for the trouble you go to, your manner in conjunction with your knowledge make your videos easy to watch and incredibly enlightening. May you always, ALWAYS fly safe ,friendly skies Kelsey and DON'T CHANGE please mate. I'm an Australian, in Australia, and have no practical idea of what it's like flying in the U.S, the air traffic must be incredible. Keep safe mate and I look forward always to seeing the next video👍🥂

Thank you Kelsey for explaining everything to us in simple terms that us non-pilots can understand. I have been very educated by what you share. I always look forward to watching your next coming videos. Safe travels to you and God Bless,Carlos ✝️🙏❤️😊🇺🇸