Rest In Peace original Ottawa senators, one of the most dominant teams in hockey

Houston is the fifth largest North American market, has a lot of energy industry Canadians living there, live off of hating Dallas, and have an NBA owner who desperately wants an NHL team. Seems like a perfect fit.

I'm surprised by the love Georgians have for the Thashers. Whenever I bring them up they get a ton of love from people in the area. It was never the lack of fan support, it was bad ownership, bad marketing and the fact the new owners cared more about the Hawks than the Thashers.

Shannon thanks for taking me to hockey history class. This is why you are the hockey guy. You don't just regurgitate news or rumors what was said by other sports people.

One thing I will say about Hartford is that we learned from our past mistakes, fans are a lot more passionate than they used to and we are willing to drop our favorite teams to support Hartford. Like Seattle, which is close to Vancouver, it seems like the closeness to another NHL franchise actually benefits the new fanbase, not diminishes it. There are also a lot of hockey fans in the state that don't have a favorite team because of Hartford moving away and already hating both Boston and New York teams. The team may so be supported nationwide as Hartford is a small market team with an iconic brand. Similar, but less drastic then the Green Bay Packers. You can't walk the streets of Hartford without seeing someone with a Whalers jersey!

I couldn't figure out why the Montreal teams didn't have an asterisk until I realized that it only referred to a later replacement team, and the Habs were already there from day 1.

RE: Milwaukee, In the early 1980s, a potential ownership group consisting of the Bradley (Allen Bradley Co.) and Petit families built a hockey-designed arena on the west edge of downtown Milwaukee and tried to get an expansion team. The building, named the Bradley Center, was completed in 1982 with no tax payer funding. However, the NHL, led primarily by the owner of the Chicago Blackhawks, raised the expansion fee so high that the Bradley/Petit partnership were forced to back out. The only NHL action the Bradley Center saw were some Blackhawks preseason games. The Bradley Center served Milwaukee Admirals IHL/AHL, the NBA Bucks, and Marquette University basketball teams for about 25 years. It also hosted at least one NCAA Frozen Four tournament. A key argument made for replacing the Bradley Center was the fact that it was built for hockey not basketball. The new Bucks arena is not designed for hockey and the Admirals have moved back into the 1950s era UWM Panther Arena.

A thought provoking and fun hockey topic.Well done! 👍

I remember they were still talking about moving the Devils AFTER they won their first cup, but that cup eventually was the key factor in them staying imo. That’s why guys like Stevens, Daneyko, Brodeur, etc… will always be legends there

For years as a kid I had believed the Flames name was unique to Calgary based on the refinery flares seen around the city. Even knowing for 30 years that Atlanta was where the Flames name came from, I still like to think the flares give some reasoning to keep the Flames name after the move. Great look back at some history Shannon. Your passion and unbiased thoughts on the game make this channel my 1st choice for league news and updates.

I live in Houston and it would be a dream to have a team in the city. Such a great sports market over the upcoming years Houston will host - NCAA final 4 this year, NCAA football championship game next year, and host a World Cup. Houston is a hotbed for sports and will help grow and key word EXPAND the game of hockey to a lot of new fans

Honestly The Entertainment Guy could do this covering other leagues and I would 100% watch it

St Louis Eagles was a foray by the League into the Midwest and got their name from the Budweiser Eagle, they were also the furthest team south in the US at the time in 1934-35. Back then it was just too expensive and long for teams to travel by train there. They have an OG jersey at the Hockey Hall of Fame. Pretty cool.

The move from Hartford was much more complicated than simple financial reasons. Karmanos bought them with every intention on moving the team from the beginning, set unrealistic attendance goals while removing the most popular partial season packages, and despite meeting those goals, still moved the team. Bettman was in the middle of his Southern strategy for the NHL and was giddy about getting another team south of the Mason Dixon line and would probably have shot the move down if it was to a Northern city.

Houston is a growing area as well. I can’t see them not getting a team of the nhl expands again.

I truly believe that the city of Houston will eventually get an NHL franchise, whether it will be an expansion team or a team relocating at some point. The market is really big and it is a great sports town.

I remember when Seattle joined you talked about how much talent was out there. When I compare the NBA, MLB and NFL, I don't think you go as deep as the NHL on teams that have a legit chance to win the championship or the amount of quality teams that miss the playoffs. Even a team that was as bad as Seattle can improve from bottom team to playoff team in a season. That makes me think that if any league could pull off expansion without overly diluting the product, the NHL could. But there's something clean about 32 teams, and I wouldn't be in a hurry to expand.

I remember watching the Howe family when they came to St. Paul to play the Fighting Saints in the mid ‘70’s. Always wondered why Houston didn’t get in with the other four WHA teams in 1979 and make the NHL an even 22 teams.

Perhaps you could talk about Salt Lake City in a future video on expansion. They are always overlooked. The NBA is strongly supported there. it's a hockey area with an ECHL team in a nice arena and many youth hockey leagues. The L.A. Kings have played sold out pre-season games here the past couple seasons. Lots of hockey facilities and a natural lnk with Colorado.

THANKS!!

Unrelated I LOVE the little "THG" logo that shows up on the zoomed in screen lol Thanks again man!

a video idea that could be interesting is looking back at what different future considerations turned out to be and if they actually mattered

nice analysis, well done

Thanks for mentioning Saskatoon.

Imagine if the NHL relocates the Coyotes to Atlanta, and everything is full-circle: Winnipeg to Phoenix, Phoenix to Atlanta, Atlanta to Winnipeg.

Dallas stars originally from Minneapolis Minnesota

Howe’s Great pic I was blessed to be at their sold out WHL cup championship, in Houston, free ticket to boot! 🤠

I feel like salt lake city would be a great place for an nhl team

2. 1- Fantastic jersey sir, always good to see the Nords again. 2- I really like your 40 team league from the video you did a couple years back .

Atlanta had newly built Philips Arena when the Thrashers were in existence.. Like The Flames, the Thrashers suffered from poor management. Since you posted this video a county north of Atlanta unveiled plans for an 18,000 seat arena.

Wanderers on wood Ave right west of where the mtl Forumn was built few years later right across the street.

Milwaukee actually was in the driver's seat to be an expansion franchise when the NHL was forced to pick Ottawa as the place to expand. Lloyd Pettit, HOF broadcaster with the Blackhawks and his wife owned the Milwaukee Admirals and built the Bradley Center. Pettit threw his hat in the ring for an expansion franchise after The Sharks came into existence and the NHL announced they were awarding two more franchises. The NHL announced a fee of $50 million for the fee, but gave the San Jose owners a discounted fee of only $35 million. Pettit tried to get the $50M fee reduced and when the NHL refused, Pettit pulled his offer and the NHL chose Ottawa instead. It was widely reported at the time that Milwaukee was going to be the team if Pettit kept his bid on the table.

I live in KC area and was a Scout's fan, it's sad and frustrating that so many other geographical areas got a second chance and we didn't. Just been stuck with minor league hockey periodically since the Scouts left: Blues, Red Wings, Blades, Outlaws and Mavericks.

Minnesota North Stars - Moved for financial reasons a KZfaq appropriate way of saying their owner sexually assaulted his employee and he wanted to run away from the public backlash.

The Cleveland Barons merging with the Minnesota North Stars took place as an agreement George Gund had with the NHL. In return, when Gund was allowed to establish an expansion team (San Jose Sharks), the Stars sent several players to help jumpstart the team.

Love these history video lot of people forget that hockeys been threw it just like any other sport but never gets the recognition

problem with any NHL team in Europe is the time zone. 7:30pm eastern games would start at 1:30am Berlin time.. A night game in Berlin at 7:30pm would be 1:30pm on the east coast and 10:30am on the west coast.

Bruh the hockey guy stays dripped out. The fit and the video are top notch as always my guy.

So fun fact about the expansion in Milwaukee. In the 90’s the Petit family was willing and able to put a team into MKE. They had the Bradley Center built for hockey games. However the expansion fees were significantly higher than what they were expecting. Plus they would have had to pay an additional fee to Chicago for there loss of fans on the north side of the border. The overall cost and knowledge that they would not have a competitive team for years to come due to how expansions drafts worked was enough to halt the addition of a team. Currently there is massive hockey support in Wisconsin. The Wild/Blackhawk preseason game at the Fiserv Forum sold out in minutes. But the Milwaukee area is solidly Chicago fans, and western half are Wild fans. I would love to see a team in Madison. It’s untapped fans, and I would say you have roughly 2 million people within an hour drive.

THIS is the kinda content you just won’t get on the networks. Amazing job THG!

Another point on Hartford that few people talk about besides the arena is the TV deal. They are on SportsChannel New England, now NBC Sports Bostons. They didn't have reach into Fairfield County and the gold coast of Connecticut. Growing up there while the Whale were the closest drive for me to see an NHL game I only got the Rangers, Devils, and Islanders on TV. Connecticut, as proven by Uconn when they are good, can draw a ton of fans and CT is very territorial about their teams. But when the richest few who living in Fairfield County can't get attached to the team it's tough for them to survive. Additionally the state didn't pay much mind because it was assumed by the governor that there was a done deal to bring the NFL Patriots there. I still think you can have a viable team but it would have to be done right. One of the main things would be to get TV on a NY based network, like SNY, and work from there. Additionally while the Barons are defunct, they sort of aren't as when San Jose came in owned by Gund he was allowed to take half the team to SJ with him and Minnesota was part of the expansion draft.

NHL, please bring back the Whalers! Such a great logo and Brass Bonanza slaps so hard! Edit: Never meant to start a war in the comments section. LOL. Obviously the Whalers will never come back, but one can dream.

I do wish the Nordiques would come back. As a lifelong Canadiens fan, I thought the rivalry was good for hockey, even as my Habs were in the losing end a couple of times.

In May 17th, 2023, we still have to revisit this conversation.

Damn that Quebec gear is amazing!

Besides the ones you mentioned I think Indianapolis and salt lake city would be decent spots, since both have a new market, Indianapolis is way bigger but idk if having that many teams a little close would be a problem and SLC is a little small

I still hope Quebec gets the Nordiques back at some point as I felt bad for the Nordiques fans (and also BTW I loved the Nordiques) But I’d also like to still see the thrashers come back as well (as I also loved the thrashers as well) (and also felt bad for their fans for the way they lost their team 🤦🏼‍♂️) (And also Houston as well, (because of the long hockey history there) And also BTW , IMO Phoenix would’ve been better as a 90’s expansion location rather than relocation option (as like I said I’d put a expansion team in Phoenix (and Atlanta as well) in my 32 team NHL rather than relocation, because I still think Phoenix would’ve been much more stable as a expansion team and have them play in a downtown arena with the suns and I think that would make it better) And also BTW I’m still trying to decide on a name for Phoenix in my 32 team league (but they definitely wouldn’t be the coyotes) (but I might be able to come up with some interesting names as well)

We need 1 more team in Canada!

I am dying for an NHL team in KC!!! Please make it happen! Kansas City has a great market for sports. We have the Chiefs, Royals and Sporting KC. All three have won at least 1 or more championships in the last 15 years. The Chiefs being the most popular in KC have been a top 5 team in the NFL for last 5 years winning 2 out of their 3 Superbowl visits in those 5 years and consistently making it to the AFC Championship. At this point we joke saying it is the KC Invitational because it has been held in Kansas City in those 5 years. The Royals have tapered out of being competitive and Sporting still plays well but not enough for championship runs. Along with those we already have an ECHL team, the Kansas City Mavericks. We have had multiple NHL games in our city and at one point could have been the new home for the Penguins if they couldn't find a building for themselves in Pitt. At this point I believe Kansas City would be an ideal location for an expansion or relocation. I am not saying QC, Hartford, Atlanta, Houston or those other cities do not deserve one. I just know KC would be a great location for one given the circumstances at this point with it being a fantastic and fanatic professional sports market. In KC we love our teams, we've been through thick and thin with them and will support them whenever they play.

hey i don’t know if you’ll see this or not! but i’ve been a fan since the very beginning, and maybe uploading some of your longer recaps to spotify would help grow your reach! i’d definitely listen to your reviews, rankings, news etc while driving if i could download it!

Aside from maybe Quebec City (to keep the people there happy), I don't see the NHL going to any new Canadian markets, but I suppose Toronto, Montreal, and maybe Vancouver could support second teams. The problem is that there are so many available markets in the US. If they ever do expand again, they would have to add four teams. I would guess Houston, Atlanta, Quebec City, and either Hamilton or a second team in Toronto.

Halifax Nova Scotia ( closest large city to the birthplace of hockey ) will get one of the next two teams. It's the fastest growing city in Canada with 40K+ per year to the population. Crosby, MacKinnon, Marchand will be the majority owners.

The economic picture in the US and Canada is cloudy at best and ominous at worst. Any expansion thoughts should be shelved for several years.

Idk about it's hockey interest, but New Orleans is a location I always make expansion teams out of. It has great local rivalries with St Louis and Nashville plus depending on where a arena can be placed it's the kind of atmosphere players would love for playoffs/all-star games.

OMG that's the best jersey hat combo I've ever seen!!! Yooooo where can you buy that hat. I bet you have to live in Canada to get that hat.

@TheHockeyGuy, you forgot Indianapolis off your exhaustive list of potential new hockey franchises.

Glad you mentioned Hamilton. It makes way more sense than Quebec. If you add up all the cities within 1 1/2 hour drive youve got almost 2.5 million people (KW, Cambridge, Guelph, London, Brantford, Woodstock, St Katherines/Niagara, Burlington, etc) and thats not even counting the 5.6 million in the GTA that woule come to Hamilton. QC i get the fan interest, but its only about 850,000 people and not as many surrounding areas to add in. Nearest decent cities are like Trois Rivieres (80 min), Saguenay (2+ hours), and Drummondville (1 3/4 hours). Its much more isolated.

it might be too late but honestly i'd really love to see an NHL team in Baltimore, especially considering they were in the running for a team in the 1967 expansion had any of the other teams been unable to set anything up due to Shenanigans and/or Finagling

Really enjoyed this video, when I didn't think I would :) I won't see it in my lifetime, but I can imagine a 36 team league with 9 teams per division by: expanding to Atlanta, Hamilton, Houston and Kansas. Oh yeah and the Yotes finally get their act together in Salt Lake City. Yeah, right! Keep the videos coming, pa;.

With teams like Arizona, who is struggling, and there are others too, relocation just makes sense. There are teams in the US North East, and Canada who are clamoring to have representation in the NHL. Cleveland, Minneapolis, and yes, I’d too love to see Quebec in the fold.

there's no limit to the number of times. if it makes dollars, Bettman will put a team on the moon. A major metropolis that's also a massively outsized cultural hub? Unless the city goes through a depression, they'll get a team eventually.

There's one expansion I'm eager to see (but never will): ice size widening from the North American 85' to the international/European size, ~98'.

If Houston gets a team Gordie Howe's jersey would get raised at the first game...that could be fun.

9:42 same

Up it to 38 teams. Why not. The divisions would be a little bit unbalanced but so what. The conferences can still be balanced though. Move Detroit back to the west, add new teams in Milwaukee and Houston and put them in the west. And then out east resurrect the Whalers, Nordiques, and Thrashers and then add a new team in Hamilton.

Interestingly Colorado still has the Rockies (MLB)!😁I didn’t know about the Colorado Rockies hockey team!

Thunder Bay , it even sounds bad ass.

Well Bettman can always move Edmonton to Houston and keep the Oilers name and confuse and piss off a while bunch of people...

If they had a building, I think the Maritimes could support a team in Halifax. Those tickets would be sold out every night, I think. Lots of people travel outside of Atlantic Canada to see either Toronto, Ottawa or Montreal games in their cities. That's a Canadian market that if it had a building could support a team, I think.

7:12 - As a a NJ resident and NJD fan, can't thank Lou Lamoriello enough for what he did to save hockey in NJ.

You'll need 4 teams to even out the divisions. Pacific = Portland Atlantic = Quebec City, Hamilton or Hartford Metropolitan = Atlanta Central = Houston or Kansas City Atlanta could work but a new arena would have to be built in the suburbs outside of the downtown area where State Farm Arena is located. People don't want to go down there.

Beaver cleaver in a nordiques jersey.

Also with Hartford, I always thought it was difficult being between arguably the 2 biggest American based Hockey fan bases.

The player pool also thins out more and more every team we add

Fun fact all NHL teams not a member of the original 6 is an NHL expansion team. I understand fans that are mad because their team is moving to another city I feel for you guys. I’m a Bruins fan and Bruin fans don’t ever have to worry about losing the team.

The Islanders were actually the first NHL team to play in Brooklyn. The Americans planned on moving to Brooklyn but there was no arena at the time so they continued to play at MSG until they folded.

3:42 So often overlooked. The league never would have just went to Winnipeg, Edmonton, Hartford and/or Quebec City out of the blue in a WHA-less reality. The fact that three of the four ended up relocating with only one of those three cities getting another franchise later (in very rushed "emergency-ness" circumstances) says a lot. Also re: the Flames name, FWIW, Calgary did have a "great fire" in 1886. ;-)

I remember when the Pittsburgh Penguins were up for sale and the media was focused on the Blackberry guy who wanted to move the team to Hamilton.

Living in Saskatchewan, I'd love a Saskatoon team. But I really don't ever seeing it work out sadly. Not a big enough market and doubtful anyone has big enough pockets for that. But hey Saskatoon is getting a new Arena that's probably the same size as Arizona's...

@shannon San Diego Chargers was the exact reason I fell in with the VGK. Spanos demanding tax payer money for a stadium and bad deal was the exact opposite of what the VGK did by not taking taxpayer money for starting their franchise, and I found that so appealing.

Probably a madness board but I've wondered what an expansion team would look like if we had a draft this season by having a mock expansion draft

The NBA gave Chicago three chances and the third team the Bulls ended up working out. The gave Cleveland three chances and it took the Browns 2.0 to seal the deal. So it’s not unprecedented that a league would give a city three shots.

Outside of a video game where you could add a Euro division, I always thought whomever was bringing this back on the stove was out of their minds, mainly for the logistics issues you touched up. However, I could see a 36-team league down the line, one for each division (to remodel or not). You covered all the bases of potential destinations, but I have a soft spot for Québec as a former fan. Might be a topic addressed in another video, but is the brand-new "pint sized" arena used by the Coyotes a viable long-term solution? Can they actually secure funding for a true new home well located within the Phoenix area or are we again going to hear rumours of relocation to another region?

As someone from the UK I would love an NHL team but you are right Shannon it will never work. What about Danbury for a market? The trashers seemed to have a lot of support 🤪

For exspanshion I’m sure it’s going to be Huston and Atlanta, for me I would like to see Portland and Quebec get a team. There’s good potential in both cities and amazing history in both cities with the Nordiques in Quebec and Rosebuds and Buckeroos in Portland. Both cities have NHL caliber arenas with the Vidiotron center and Moda Center. And both cities have a great hockey culture in the minors and majors (Nordiques and Winterhawks) with their own level of support. Portland would be a great Hockeytown and already is and Quebec deserves a team. Possible expansion teams include The Huston Areos Altlanta Thrashers Portland Buckeroos/Rosebuds Quebec Nordiques Others include Hartford Whalers, Toronto Shamrocks, I tried to list some of the most likely candidates for future expansion. Tell me if there’s any you would add or recommend as part of teams that could potentially be apart of the NHL.

I know of some cities under the expansion title with NHL-ready venues. The hockey capacity in a few cities would be like Winnipeg's Canada Life Centre. In the case of Atlanta and Hartford, they would need to build new arenas. As always, what groups have the money and the motivation to apply for the expansion fee (Seattle Kraken's backers paid $650 Million) plus either building a new arena or refurbishing the current venue for the NHL? As much as I would like to see new teams, I think talking about possible expansion is just that: talk.

It would be better if the Jets relocated to Kansas City, Missouri where they would play their 82 home games against their cross - state rival St. Louis Blues at the T - Mobile Centre and they would stay in the same division and same conference in the NHL (Central Division and Western Conference) where they would be known as the Kansas City Scouts

I really hope Houston gets a team so I can watch the Kraken there.

What about a team in Salt Lake City

Hamilton Tiger-Cats!

Whats with all the names exactly like baseball team names?

What's a better rival for oil than a flame?

Speaking of Atlanta With stable ownership it can work but as a northern California native I would love to see a NHL team in Sacramento

What a nice video filled with historical context. Uncommon these days.

Re Atlanta Thrashers, you said they had no arena. They played in the Philips Arena (not State Farm Arena), which opened in 1999, same year the Thrashers came into the league. Were they being booted out?

Speaking of LA they don't need NFL teams except maybe the Raiders. When i was there all they cared about were Lakers and Dodgers. Also as someone who lived in Atlanta during the Thrasher days, they had people at the games it's just that their GM was awful especially at drafting and had incompetent owners.

Also there was a massive fire in Calgary 1886.

I thought that there was a campaign inviting the public to come up with a new moniker for the Flames. As the suggestions were deemed outrageous, they decided to keep the Flames' name . If I'm mistaken, please someone correct me.

What I’m curious about is if a expansion could work on the east coast of Canada I strongly believe that after the world juniors halifax could 100% support a nhl team and the people out there would LOVE a team I just don’t know if the nhl would be interested in that market because of the size but it’s a dedicated fan base and would for sure give away money to see a team play

here's my issue with NHL expansion and new teams (and this is essentially just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt)... We currently are in an experimental phase with Vegas and Seattle (but we all know Vegas isn't going anywhere because it's Bettman's baby and he will stand by that team no matter what), and I think we have to give it the 5 year test for those teams to see if they last and how well they end up doing California does not need another team, they have 3 teams and that's more than enough. I think you're right with Hamilton being a suitable market, however I would prefer maybe Western Ontario in a place like London (I believe they have the market size and are further from Toronto while also being a good distance from Detroit) just due to the fact that distance-wise you would have too many teams between the range of Toronto and Buffalo. Houston would be great because it would create the Battle of Texas and that would be a marketing tool on it's own, maybe bring the Aeros name back as well. Stars vs Aeros would sell big time in Texas! I think the experiment in Arizona has failed, but it's another market that Bettman will stand for until he's forced to admit defeat (which he should but he won't), and it's time for them to relocate to a place like Montana (no professional teams in the state that are well-known or well-marketed). Montana would create a rivalry with the Flames in Calgary being a border battle essentially and I think the people of Montana are yearning to have a pro team! In terms of Canadian markets - I don't think anywhere in Saskatchewan works. They're barely supporting their junior teams and they have 5 of them in the WHL! I would potentially explore somewhere like Saint John, New Brunswick or Moncton where they have die-hard hockey fans who love their teams, even being junior teams in the Quebec league. I personally would love to see the Hartford Whalers come back - although I agree with your point that Connecticut isn't a great market to attempt a re-entry to the NHL (plus they have the farm team for the New York Rangers). Another key factor to consider is the farm teams/AHL that has to come with the addition of an NHL team, just so 2 organizations aren't sharing a farm team as that creates a whole new mess. Vegas has theirs right in Nevada which geographically makes sense, Toronto is the same deal, Montreal as well, we could go on and on with this. But adding an NHL team would also flood North America with the AHL teams that come along with it. Love watching your videos! Very informative and unbiased!👍