puzzle is about the knight moves, not the literal forced bishop moved lol

But he says that already

Nvm I misread ur message

the black king couldve been on h7, and white played g6 check

​@@alexm495 Wouldn't black play Kxg6 in that scenario? (It doesn't make the starting position impossible, but very very unlikely!)

@@raimesh70 well K x g6 would be losing for black also, so might as well go for the possible stalemate trick + difficult to see continuation as shown in the puzzle! 😀

The only possible move to lead to this scenario is Pg6 check. The king could capture the pawn, but facing both a bishop and a knight he would soon lose his pawn and the game. Or black could force a sacrifice or a stalemate by retreating to the corner. Most players would rather capture a bishop than a pawn, which they expect to capture anyway.

White could have had a knight on f7, and the continuation 1...Kg8 2.Nh8+ Kxh8 3.Bg8 Kxg8 and so forth. It still looks strange, not like a normal game.

Also guys, the point of puzzles in chess is to demonstrate tactical knowledge. Whether or not the position can actually be reached is not the point.

That is stalemate

You're just missing some chess rules

Yeah unless you do something to allow black to move this is a stalemate

Last moves were 1. g5-g6+ Kh7-h8

​@nickbrown2976 I worked that out, but why didn't the King take the unprotected pawn?

@@nickbrown2976 Why didn't the black king take the white pawn when it moved to g7?

White's previous move could have been g6+ giving check to the black king on h7, with the black king than moving to h8. One might expect black to play Kxg6 but black might recognize that they are in a lost position and decide to forego capturing the white pawn in order to preserve more stalemate chances.

@@timsmith8489 Nice find. Also, as you have observed the Black King would have to have been on H7, not F7.

It's a puzzle, a situation constructed specifically for testing a player's intuition and calculation skills. It doesn't have to be legally reachable, as long as it's interesting and instructive to play. And this one definitely was.

​@@timsmith8489 even better, I think white could have had a knight on H8 protecting the pawn, so Black's last move could have been to take that knight in H8, right?

Now it's White's move. Previous white and black moves can be Nf7_h8+, Kg8_h8

Nope, black has very little hope to win this. If black manages to capture the pawn, white can easily capture the pawn to force the draw. Why draw when you cannot lose - most players are likely to try

If the goal was to draw this would not be a puzzle, litterally any move but 1 causes an instant draw. I dont think anyone with a understanding of the rules of chess should notice this eventually.

Well, white has no reason to not sacrifice the bishop - even after sacrificing the bishop it would be very easy to force a draw later, so you may as well pick the "maybe winning maybe draw move" over the "guaranteed draw move". There's no situation where white would ever lose this without playing like an utter idiot so there's no point forcing a draw when it isn't clear whether it's a draw or not.

I tend to agree with you, but I would have looked for another solution first. It took me a moment to realize that the bishop sacrifice was the only way to prevent a stalemate.

Imagine a chess puzzle where the solution is move 1 stalemate, crazy concept 😂😂😂😂😂

Why would you capture a pawn when you can force a bishop sacrifice? Obviously black will lose either way but intuitively you would rather capture a bishop than a pawn that seems easy to capture soon anyway.

Stockfish does say that taking the pawn would be the best move for black, but all three choices (Kxg6, Kh6, Kh8) are losing so Kxg6 is only best in the sense that with best play on both sides it takes the most moves to mate. But even though it is best in that sense it is also pretty easy for white to play. Just get the knight to g2 to and the bishop onto the long diagonal anwhere from f3 to a8 and the black pawn can't get past g2, and then bring the white king over to win the pawn. Then it is just the standard knight and bishop checkmate. As long as white knows that checkmate there's not really much white can screw up. Not taking the pawn leaves an endgame where white can easily accidentally stalemate. As a matter of practical play that gives black better chances, unless black is pretty sure that white does not know the knight and bishop checkmate well enough to do it in under 50 moves.

That confused me too! I could only think that the Black King avoided taking the pawn, for some reason. But I haven't played chess for decades!

The black king could have been on g8 and a white knight on f7. So the previous moves could have been Nh8+ Kxh8.

There is check by the bishop on g8 so the black king last position cant be g8. Black pawn is on its original position. So previous possible position of black king was h7 only, where white has given check by moving pawn. In that case black will take pawn by king, instead going back to g8. Only thought of king going back is to create stalemate situation and get the game or get bishop instead of pawn.

Had the black king taken white pawn instead of moving back from g7 to g8( in just previous move ), the situation would have been different.

The black king could have been on g8 if there was a white knight on f7.

Had there been a second white knight on f7, why should he place it to h8, simply surendering the knight for nothing.

Well I guess I will be the one to tell you, but the starting Position is not a checkmate. In order for that to happen, the King needs to be in check but also can't have a space to escape to. He can't escape, true but he isn't in check. So if you play anything other than bishop to g8, it's stalemate. Guess your elo is about 300 tops

​@@PestoMitNudelnif white simply move their king on b2 by first move what would black do?

​@@rezeraj this will be a draw by stalemate

This position is a draw. There are no legal moves, because every move black has leads to capture. If it were Black's turn, the game would end in a draw. White sending the bishop to be captured is the only move white can make without ending the game on a draw.

It's not stalemate for black to claim because it's white move. It's standard that chess puzzles start with white to move. White's first task is to create 'luft' (air in German, a standard chess concept term) or space for the black king. White 'sacrifices' (another standard chess term) the bishop by placing it next to the king, leaving a possible move - the capture of the bishop. Then, the next task is to figure out how to prevent the black king from capturing the pawn. And such is how the puzzle can be begun to be solved.

If it were blacks turn to move, the game would be a draw.

It is White to move, scott. 🍌🙂

@@HeinrichDixon White doesn't need to move. The Black King can't move. All of the Black King's moves land him in check.

​@@scottjuhnke6825if black can't move then it's a stalemate which means the game is a draw, white doesn't automatically win if black can't move

@@scottjuhnke6825 With nearly all chess problems, it is White to move and win in a given number of moves. This is usually stated. @0:04 in this video: "White is on the move", so we need assume nothing. If it was black's move, there would be no 'problem': The match would already be a draw by stalemate. 🍌🙄