A Situation With 2 Individuals

Рет қаралды 516,384

9 ай бұрын

Just a healthy disagreement over World of Warcraft
► Asmongold's Twitch: / zackrawrr
► Bellular | Panda: / @bellulargaming | / pandatv
► Asmongold's Twitter: / asmongold
► Asmongold's 2nd YT Channel: / zackrawrr
► Asmongold's Sub-Reddit: / asmongold
Channel Editors: CatDany & Daily Dose of Asmongold
If you own the copyright of content showed in this video and would like it to be removed:
/ catdanyru

Пікірлер: 3 300

@Grandy_UiD 9 ай бұрын

"I have nothing against him personally. I just hate him for being snarky and smug." Uh yeah. Sure, man.

@Oxmosh 9 ай бұрын

Then says he wasnt talking only about him, but proceeds to only target him.

@danielstewart7611 9 ай бұрын

Think a lot of people (even in the comments here) just write off Bellular as disingenuous, either being a Blizz shill or a Blizz hater. Having come across his content and live streams, Bellular just comes off as someone who wants Blizz to succeed while giving criticisms either for or against what Blizz is doing. Honestly, I sometimes thinks he gives Blizz a little too much benefit of the doubt, but that’s me coming off of years of Blizz willingly or unwillingly ignoring tons of feedback in testing phases for their games (which in recent history gets played off as “oh we didn’t notice these issues, wish testers caught that!”).

@RisqueRique 9 ай бұрын

I can’t even finish the video because he’s just repeating himself and getting no where

@BRBingeDrinker 9 ай бұрын

@@danielstewart7611 Never seen his streams, but this is my opinion on him as well. The people who call him disingenuous have clearly never watched him or already hate him.

@shaktosh524 9 ай бұрын

This whole discussion that made made Panda the whole circus could have been avoided if he admitted he dislikes/hates Bellular. There is nothing wrong to hate or dislike something or someone.

@patrxon 9 ай бұрын

Panda: "It's not personal." Also Panda: "I think, he acts snarky, like he could solve all the problems just because he's a developer."

@ToadstedCroaks 9 ай бұрын

Panda: "I just made a one take .. it was barely 3 minutes long. Take what I said with a grain of salt. I didn't do any research beforehand." Also Panda: "He absolutely did all of that. I thought we were going to have common sense here. Everyone's saying it."

@istiompaxindica9676 9 ай бұрын

you forgot the part where "and thats not what I meant"

@ChristianR-fx8uy 9 ай бұрын

Panda: "im not sitting heredefending my point of view" Also Panda 5 Sec later: "but I don't think what im saying is that extreme!"

@dani0s738 9 ай бұрын

We are now talking in circles lets move on😴

@silver2zilver 9 ай бұрын

I'm not playing dragon flight cus they PERMA BANNES my 14 year old account cus I was using bad language. Even though It was the best time I had and made so many friends, increased my win rate in bgs by 40%

@BronzeApparathus 9 ай бұрын

Im always impressed with bald man's encyclopedic knowledge and how he can maneuver through what is essentially a child throwing a tantrum.

@alexander1055 9 ай бұрын

He worked in retail.

@Firen-vh3xc 9 ай бұрын

until he plays a game where he cant beat the boss then he becomes the child throwing a tantrum lul

@istiompaxindica9676 9 ай бұрын

Dude he can remember so much detail, its actually insane

@peepoo2049 9 ай бұрын

business education has its benefits

@zam1007 9 ай бұрын

@@alexander1055truly a Crucible of Blood and Fire. It is known.

@ninjack11 9 ай бұрын

Its actually kind of amazing how he can for an hour and 44 minutes not answer a single question or come up with a single example to defend his arguments

@Koozul 9 ай бұрын

i mean thats a little disingenuous, he was somewhat respectful for maybe the first 40 minutes until he started panda-ing all over the place

@jfelton3583 9 ай бұрын

Exactly amazingly ridiculous

@FuuuckOffff 9 ай бұрын

Bellular just rubs him up the wrong way, he made a hasty ranty video, and was put in the position of defending it. He bascially had no argument to make.

@necrosslich 9 ай бұрын

I honestly was sitting here listening being like "bruh"

@TheSpicySimon 9 ай бұрын

"Can I ask you a question?"

@SjinsAdviser 9 ай бұрын

I dont care about bellular, and ive never watched pandatv. But holy fuckk this panda dude is like a politician dodging questions and refusing to even take a small L.

@Suicidalsheep 9 ай бұрын

And his takes are at toddler level.

@jun2467 9 ай бұрын

Backed by sources: trust me bro

@imNilco 9 ай бұрын

this guy is an example of what happens to you when you refuse to let a game go after playing daily for almost 20 years. people give Asmon shit for quitting the game but this Panda guy is what he would have become if he didn’t.

@resee9856 9 ай бұрын

As gay as it sounds, Bellular is just higher caliber of creator than Panda. Which, it looks like, makes him mad. Or the fact that Bellular still has at least some hair to comb over. Anyway, stay mad chrome dome.

@chazdoit 9 ай бұрын

@@resee9856 My impression was that this was 1000% personal for the dude for whatever reason, so when he said he has no harsh feelings towards Bellular, that's bullshit

@resee9856 9 ай бұрын

@chazdoit 100% it was personal. He couldn't back up a single argument that he had and kept going back to "I think Bellular thinks". Oh, you can read minds now? Fucking good for you! Nah, the whole "Bellular is smug and thinks he's smarter than everyone" is actually him projecting. He thinks that's the case because Bellular is smarter, but smarter than him specifically, and because of that he's feeling inferior and attacked.

@abra4662 9 ай бұрын

Yep, the guy is just in copium not want to admit the company already ruined the game and he don't want lose 20 years of his life

@yyflame 9 ай бұрын

I think it has less to do with letting the game go, and more to do with making a game an intrinsic part of your identity If he still enjoys the game and values the time he spends in it, he should keep playing it. The problem arises because he’s become so personally attached and invested into the game that he takes any criticism of the game as criticism of an aspect of himself

@Powah101 9 ай бұрын

Jesus christ, that was a hard watch. The amount of times Panda said "it's not personal to Bellular" then goes on to personally attack him multiple times lol

@davidleeserrano3471 9 ай бұрын

Literally, I almost stopped but I forced myself to, he just didn't wanna let asmon talk

@reflekshun 9 ай бұрын

Yes and also the foundation of his argument was Bellular making personal attacks against Blizzard Devs...

@zinseng 9 ай бұрын

Seriously he keeps bitching about Michael making negative videos but doesn't mind that other people did that at the time apparently? Why was it a problem for Bellular to ride the algorithm but no one else? And Michael making personal attacks? What a joke, as this guy is going off about him himself including making up shit. And how dare you use your personal experience to identify with the creative team at Blizzard as you do commentary about that exact process. Jesus.

@chancis55 9 ай бұрын

This is equally one of the most frustrating and fascinating conversations I have listened /watched just based on the fundamentals of making arguments alone. Asmon gave a masterclass on how to argue with someone who isn’t willing to move off shallow opinions. I don’t even know anything about WOW and I loved this video lol

@Fumaru 9 ай бұрын

I second that. It’s like hate watching the video I hate it whenever he keeps moving the goalposts and deflecting but I am curious on what he is going to … “and again that is not what I mean …..” on.

@koo1770 9 ай бұрын

Exactly, at a certain point I was thinking why am I wasting my life listening to this pointless argument then realised I can learn from video by focusing the way Asmon is interacting with Chinglish.

@stock6600 9 ай бұрын

Listening to Asmon calmly and rationally trying to explain to Panda why his stance is a giant L only for said individual to dodge every question and be saved by a literal internet blackout was truly an experience

@dazza761 9 ай бұрын

Yep. It reminds me of destiny(the streamer) having to argue against conspiracy theorists, they just avoid answering any questions that disprove their bullshit theory.

@LimpRichard 9 ай бұрын

He is actually in the top 5% of Australians in IQ score. Think about that...

@przemekdawidowski2499 9 ай бұрын

@@LimpRichard where did you get that info from lmao

@logirex 9 ай бұрын

@@LimpRichard The shouting face tattoo man sounds like a genius for sure 🤦‍♂

@clips5552 9 ай бұрын

@@Sasquatch_. he's a mess because he has tattoos???

@kingrogers7740 9 ай бұрын

Panda is the definition of somebody who needs to listen to learn instead of listening to respond

@bootyplayswow 9 ай бұрын

Hes banned on youtube lol

@kewlkat2712 9 ай бұрын

He looks kind of like Adam22. Or is it just me? I'm not trying to insult him or anything btw.

@vampiresquid 9 ай бұрын

He doesn't even listen at all. Just waits for his turn to talk.

@Pokeringo 9 ай бұрын

Don't expect much from a guy with drawings on his empty head.

@JesseMichel 9 ай бұрын

The amount of times Panda asked Asmon a question, and then interrupted him the moment he starts answer, is INSUFERABLE omg

@bro2917 9 ай бұрын

Its a common tactic of those with an IQ below room temperature

@ralk7048 9 ай бұрын

I watched Asmon interview Chinglish/PandaTV live on stream, and this guy just kept dodging any admission that he might be wrong by moving goalposts, shouting a lot, and trying to talk over the other person. His words come out as a chaotic jumble of emotions, and his entire strategy with communication is to drown out the other person with his low effort word salad. He muddies up definitions, and reduces the complexity of a problem down to a single dimension of "doing it for views". He tries to bait/threaten Asmon with social exclusion ("come on bro", "you're better than that", "are you serious") to make Asmon retract his points when Asmon tries to make him see his own contradictions and mixing up of fact and opinion. He also tries to manipulate and befriend using statements like "we both agree that...". He gets very nit-picky and pedantic in order to invalidate the other person, such as saying "you don't know that all players didn't like this change", or using outliers as examples, and denying trends by saying there's no official data for it. It's all very intellectually dishonest denial just so he can avoid being wrong. He doesn't know when to stop and how to make his points succinct. His word salad might also be an intentional tactic to exhaust his opponent because they have to spend a lot of cognitive energy to sift through his barrage of words, and could start making mistakes later on for him to pick up. He also likes to include a little disclaimer with every statement he makes, that he's not trying to be offensive/rude/slander etc. when the outcome of his statement make the other person look bad. He must think he's so clever by exploiting people's goodwill in conversations, and don't realize people let him go because they don't want to pick him apart. Or maybe people have picked him apart before but he never really learned anything and only made him more bitter about how brilliant and underappreciated he is as a good person. All he's trying to prove is that he's the most loyal Blizzard fan there is out there and his loyalties don't shift like the clout chasers. They do it for the views but he doesn't, and he's likely bitter about the fact that he's so loyal and yet he's not finding success over these disloyal losers. Why else would he target a more popular streamer like Bellular and single him out as incompetent? Or call Asmon out for being popular and thus not able to know how it is for normal players? You can't tell me it's for selfless justice across the universe. All he wants to do is rile people up to attack other streamers because he probably thinks they deserve it for "cheating the system". This is the definition of scrub mentality: to define your own rules and believe others need to play along with them. His ideas basically boil down to trust the system, players/streamers don't know best, devs should know best. When Asmon says community criticism has been taken in, Chinglish/PandaTV moves the goalpost by saying community is not one person and therefore personal opinion doesn't matter, and therefore community opinion doesn't matter by extension; it's clearly an argument that makes no logical sense. He also went ahead and blamed players for not playing well and claimed that balance is good all around, and a blanket "git gud" to every player (implying he's above all this) has never been a statement that gets an internet audience on your side. Maybe being a streamer and spending too much time on the internet and defining your entire identity with an MMO is a bad thing. The issues are so trivial and inconsequential and yet people like Chinglish/PandaTV blow it way out of proportion. I also don't know why Bellular had to respond in the way he did, with a hair-trigger nerd rage response. Just ignore and block people you don't like on the internet and move on. (This was a comment I made in the thread, just moving it over.)

@DudeRetro 9 ай бұрын

This was one of the most painful videos to watch. Panda had zero idea what he was talking about and couldn’t stop interrupting Asmon.

@Oxmosh 9 ай бұрын

and was not answering questions ... whenever asmon asks a question, his answer is to ask a question back or say : BUT MY POINT IS

@DudeRetro 9 ай бұрын

@@Oxmosh exactly

@ToadstedCroaks 9 ай бұрын

AND AGAIN!!!

@AutoriotM 9 ай бұрын

Exactly, I couldn't watch more than 20 minutes, and it definitely was not because of Asmon. The guy (Panda) had a shit take to start with, comes on, won't let Asmon talk, dodges questions, calls Bellular all kinds of things but bashes Bellular for doing that do devs (which he rarely does directly, more as a whole team). I watch some Bellular, some good content, some is not but I immediately knew this guy is making things personal against Bellular, maybe he is trying to make a name for himself. People stay stupid stuff on live streams all the time, this is one of them, but he chose to defend and double-down on it than retract his statement and apologize. It's a Pyromancer moment for sure, just with less rage. Maybe Panda should move to KZfaq if it's so ez to make content. It also helps prevent 3-minute shit takes.

@sebastian-rm3wg 9 ай бұрын

If hes wrong he says that is what im saying in the first place.

@Zunedoodle77 9 ай бұрын

I love watching Asmon interviewing people and asking them "So logically explain the problem/issue in detail", to have the person getting interviewed become flustered because they don't have a logical point, only an emotional one.

@Tynomac 9 ай бұрын

Just like politics

@Exroth 9 ай бұрын

After listening to the whole vid, i came to the conclusion that Panda just doesn't like Bellular, just because!? Panda kept rolling off different 'reasons', but kept getting shot down by Asmon. But what i don't think Panda realised is that sometimes, you can just dislike someone for not much reason at all. As an example, you see a famous person appear on tv, "Ugh, i can't stand that guy!" someone asks you why? And its fine to reply: "I don't know, its just something about him/her that seems off!". And thats it, no further explaination needed lol and everyone relates to this

@a-my9ql 9 ай бұрын

He did though, if you were listening. His basic claim is that Bellular is smug, which he is, and he has an ego problem, which he does. Panda made a strategic mistake by not being specific with his criticism or argument, and going all over the place with the topic.

@BleachRush 9 ай бұрын

imagine him posting a complaint to IT department and his massage only says "hey your system is negative" . no details whatsoever

@Limbergem 9 ай бұрын

Asmon reminds me of Destiny (the political commentator/gamer) in some ways. They both have a good faith approach to these discussions.

@ryanthreatt6854 9 ай бұрын

Asmon is actually an A+ interviewer. Dude keeps his cool and knows exactly what points he wants to make. God damn.

@KlowdStr1fe 9 ай бұрын

Good lord this guy really knows how to make himself look bad. No discussion etiquette at all. At first I thought I would like him, I was wrong. He's the type that won't genuinely admit he's wrong.

@jazzscorner4176 9 ай бұрын

People who argue like this guy are the worst, they don't listen, they interrupt, they ignore or dismiss counterpoints, refuse to answer fair questions, get louder when they aren't getting their way, it's the most frustrating thing to listen to. Asmon's calm questions and demeanor being washed over with emotion and stubborness irks my soul.

@oldskoolsurvivor 9 ай бұрын

people who double down, really are something else lol

@drabkebab 9 ай бұрын

I agree, but at the same time I appreciate how he wasn't getting hostile or butthurt about it like some people debating online would

@RedHaloManiac95 9 ай бұрын

Literally copium. He’s upset because he knows it’s true.

@RedHaloManiac95 9 ай бұрын

@@drabkebabnot hostile probably because it’s Asmon and he knows it’s live. He would look like a fool. But anyone else he would probably be hostile

@dearozero3631 9 ай бұрын

This was very frustrating to listen to.

@Butterzzzz 9 ай бұрын

“I have nothing against the man” *proceeds to verbally berate him and say he’s full of bullshit any time he refers to him*

@Alliebutt 9 ай бұрын

Yeah this was the thing that pissed me off the most. He absolutely feel some sort of way about Bellular, but he's too big of a pussy to just come out and say what everyone already knows. All his argument basically boiled down to, was claiming that HE felt like Bellular was snarky and condescending as if his word was the holy gospel that had to be followed solely because he said so, something I just can't see at all. He had no factual based arguments at all, it was purely a rant based on some sort of personal hate towards Bellular.

@sedlinasera3891 9 ай бұрын

there is a reason why we have the saying "everything said before a 'but...' is meaningless

@Akaitoism 9 ай бұрын

Fr idk how you all watched for more than 1 minute of him talking. It was instantly obvious what kind of guy he is.

@halcyonglaze1614 9 ай бұрын

@@Alliebutt Just because he's a way too emotional to make a good argument about it doesn't make him wrong. I feel similarly about bellular because he's WAY arrogant and he comes off as a real prick. I'm not a fan of panda either, but I do think his take on bellular is pretty fair and bellular's reaction to him proved it.

@Pokeringo 9 ай бұрын

@@halcyonglaze1614 Nah most of his argument were on cavemen level.

@DavidAVest 9 ай бұрын

"Blizzard is afraid to try things with the game because they get criticized." That's absolutely untrue. Blizzard has boldly tried things, over and over, that the players didn't like. Criticism and stopping playing are the only things that have made them think of the players recently. Telling us we're wrong for criticizing what sucks is the hallmark of the kinds of fanboys that made Blizzard tone-deaf and out of touch.

@518UN4 9 ай бұрын

Man I really wonder why Bellular makes negative videos when the game sucks and Blizzard has scandals and why he makes positive videos when the game is good and Blizzard makes good decisions. There must be some sinister motivation.

@Utrilus 9 ай бұрын

He himself said that he heard Belluar say he makes videos based on the emotions of the crowd, appealing to what the people are feeling. Tho it seems to me that his hate for Belluar goes down to small bits of reliability. Belluar makes games, and he acts arrogant talking in a matter of fact way. He also claims to be a dev and is different. Belluar not being humble like him is the problem. Also Belluar riding the negative waves when they happen, that too of course.

@ghanthony72 9 ай бұрын

I'm living in crazy town. Panda: "I think the sky is red." Asmon: "Here is proof it is blue." Panda: "That is exactly the point I'm making!"

@RDK325 9 ай бұрын

Asmon provided him wrong like 50 different times and he still couldn't stop coping. This was the most "smashing your head against the wall" moment

@aternialaffsalot 9 ай бұрын

true, it's pointless engaging with people who are so stubborn like this, hell even asmon himself is not immune to huffing on copium

@Macncheesee 9 ай бұрын

What do u expect from a middle aged man with tattoos on his face

@TeleologicalConsistency 9 ай бұрын

Dishonest people fundamentally can't admit they are wrong.

@burprobrox9134 9 ай бұрын

@@Macncheeseebut hey he lost weight

@telassian3728 9 ай бұрын

Panda contradicted himself numerous time in the same sentences. Also he said multiple times thats not my point when he's proved wrong and keep repeating the same things thats was proved wrong.

@adventthragg 9 ай бұрын

I can't believe the patience Asmon had. Im 30 minuets into this and I'm yelling at Panda to shut up.

@mister_stronk 9 ай бұрын

As an Australian myself… I am embarrassed. He legit got his argument torn apart and didn’t want to admit it.

@XiLock_Alotx 9 ай бұрын

I think as a human being it’s embarrassing. Australian, Japanese, or what have you. It’s simply childish.

@Cheedynamic 9 ай бұрын

Thankfully he doesn't represent Australians, so I think you're safe ;D

@Starkimonde 9 ай бұрын

He just needs to never debate again. He fundamentally lacks understanding here.

@jonkalv7808 9 ай бұрын

For someone that doesn’t have a personal problem with bellular, he sure does have a personal problem with bellular

@CorfixAMV 9 ай бұрын

Exactly this

@k00ms 9 ай бұрын

Jealousy is a hell of a drug. He’s just mad he’s doing essentially the same thing, making wow content, but then has to buy a wife. Meanwhile bellular, making wow content, gettin married like a normie. LMFAO.

@nickcameron9610 9 ай бұрын

@@k00msi feel like a big part of it is that he brings up game dev and he’s jealous he has never learned game dev

@ciprianrobica4496 9 ай бұрын

He’s just mad that Bellular had better relevance to hot wow topics than him and capitalized on it. This is what any business in the whole world is doing. If people can relate to something then there will be content made by individuals talking about that something.

@mothypants1879 9 ай бұрын

Zack does such a great job staying on point even after being interrupted constantly.

@RedHaloManiac95 9 ай бұрын

Honestly, idk how he keeps track of all his point without writing them down

@mrx3009 9 ай бұрын

It was frustrating to listen to Panda constantly dodge and interrupt and yell, but also kind of impressive to learn from Asmons debate technique

@Northwatch1214 9 ай бұрын

@@mrx3009he has way too much patience! 😂

@mothypants1879 9 ай бұрын

@@mrx3009 yea was pretty passionate about his argument I suppose. Interesting to see their takes.

@MrMcswiggens 9 ай бұрын

Asmongold was going in circles and bringing back up old points.. huh?? Panda was the calm one getting his point across while getting interrupted. Bruh it's like we watched a different video

@Lucydius 9 ай бұрын

The fact that Bellular is saying anything positive or negative about Wow shows he actually gives a shit with what direction Blizz goes in.

@awolscopes8790 9 ай бұрын

“I don’t think him calling devs brain dead apes is good.” Asmon: Has he called them that? Well I’m not sure so I don’t want to quote it. Bro you’ve quoted it 5 times already… he is constantly just arguing in circles.

@RenshoYT 9 ай бұрын

Honestly a lot of Bellular's content is overly generous towards WoW at times, not the other way around. Yeah they definitely get frustrated and criticize the game as well, but overall I think they try to play it pretty even-handed. They certainly give WoW more credit and benefit of the doubt than I do.

@cmoney163 9 ай бұрын

That’s why I stopped watching his stuff, he’ll tear into Blizzard but he’s also too quick to forgive and forget. He doesn’t really stand his ground, at least from what I’ve seen in the past. I guess It’s because WoW is his bread and butter, to me he just flip flops a lot.

@tanatos1997 9 ай бұрын

I don’t know about his videos recently because I stopped watching during SL when everyone was doom-farming, but recently he has trash talked devs on Twitter calling them apes lol

@Unpar_Guki 9 ай бұрын

Feels like the same video was make twice today.

@reldey3900 9 ай бұрын

Yeah I actually don't like his videos because of how easy he is on blizzard lol

@haytham7035 9 ай бұрын

@@cmoney163 Same here, Bro! Bellular is basically a person crying about getting cheated on a daily basis, but who will also forgive & forget again n again. He is a prime example of where too much hope and optimism can lead to.

@opyshuichiro8809 9 ай бұрын

This was painful to listen to. Big W for Asmon to remain this calm all the way through

@Orillionn 9 ай бұрын

Billionaire*

@paulsaguto9563 9 ай бұрын

Man, that "Panda" guy must be REALLY REALLY buff to keep moving the goalpost during the entire argument...

@GigabearPanda 9 ай бұрын

A situation which resulted entirely from Panda deciding, unprompted, to call out a bigger creator over the manner of his content creation, instead of simply disagreeing with his opinions. How interesting that he attacked Bel over doing things "for the views" and ends up in an interview with Asmongold.

@coldchillin8382 9 ай бұрын

Panda: it’s extremely easy to level and gear in this game Also Panda: been playing same game for 20 years 8 hours a day

@b.d.1112 9 ай бұрын

Yeah I laughed when he said that he’d have nothing to do in two weeks….yeah when you play all day as a job. I play maybe 2 hours a day when I’m lucky.

@dodo3555 9 ай бұрын

I would say it is fairly easy to gear though. You can get a full set of 402 set pluss 1 415 gear each week. There is 8 catalyst waiting for you so you get insta 4 set. It isn't bad but it is also easy to gear. But yes Pandas take here was L overall.

@victorvolts5862 9 ай бұрын

It is really easy to level and gear in retail Panda isn't wrong about that

@jordon_9333 9 ай бұрын

It's pretty easy to gear, I don't think gear has ever been this accessible, especially with m+ being a lot easier this time round

@scary.monsters 9 ай бұрын

He constantly berates Asmon for "playing wrong" and having a "warped experience" while he himself been playing the same game for years, everyday for half a day. Thats not a very typical experience

@sonofandria4636 9 ай бұрын

Imagine shilling for the company to the point where you blame the state of the game on negative journalism…

@Macncheesee 9 ай бұрын

He sounds like the government

@MarioLeCarre 9 ай бұрын

@@Macncheesee He sounds like a typical Australian politician when they are losing.

@ElZamo92 9 ай бұрын

@@MarioLeCarrenah, it’s not just aus brah

@chrisnelson6682 9 ай бұрын

He probably works for the ccp. Asmongod doing what he does best….stayed calm and dismantles the communist Australian.

@pearltheboomkin1247 9 ай бұрын

maybe hes just speaking from his own experience@@ElZamo92

@HwanTheLight 9 ай бұрын

Panda: "No offense but ... *says something offensive*." Also Panda: "I'm so shocked people were offended!"

@yurchenkoandrey1631 9 ай бұрын

This conversation is so frustrating.I hate when people push one point and don't listen to any arguments, don't address them, just push one argument you have or switch conversation completely when you are losing the argument.

@ClowdyHowdy 9 ай бұрын

It was like a self protective reflex. Every time asmon gets panda to think about why the negative videos do well, and make the connection to why he doesn't always make negative videos if they do so well, the shield goes up and the pitch of pandas voice goes higher and louder as he jumps in to slide to another side topic

@TheShrekkoning 9 ай бұрын

yep, this

@ninny65 9 ай бұрын

Feminine behavior

@ithelan 9 ай бұрын

This is literally like listening to Question time in Australian Parliament. It's not a discussion or qna, it's just one person trying to yell down another. If only both sides were as calm and focused as Asmon was here

@luckywizard_ 9 ай бұрын

I bet if asmon asked him to repeat what he just said his would just dodge the question and say, “Again that’s not the point I’m trying to make here, I feel like we’re going in circles here.” Dude is a legitmate npc unable to acknowledge any perspective except the one codes into him

@ithelan 9 ай бұрын

@@luckywizard_ that's because it's not a discussion, it's one person trying to engage with another that's parroting a talking point. The talking point being "that's not the point I'm trying to make". Now what is the point that he's trying to make? He doesn't know, because he doesn't have one

@BubblyBoar 9 ай бұрын

An hour and 44 minute case study on why you should never EVER be a One Game Andy. Don't do it.

@Newchaos190 9 ай бұрын

Being a 1 game person is fine. But not understanding people behaviour > complaining about said behaviour (gatekeeping) and not listening as to why it would be happening is not healthy. I have not played dragonflight but to my understanding you only need to do +16 for maximum rewards, everything else higher is for fun and leaderboard/bragging. I forgot the discussion everything before the M+ and bellular stuff already LOL so much topic jumping.

@dourdaur 9 ай бұрын

He's more of a one genre Andy, though, as he did mention that he played other MMOs. He definitely has spent the bulk of his time on WOW, though. That's for certain.

@BGA_Grimeyy 9 ай бұрын

@@Newchaos190 If you're not aiming for KSH what are you even running Mythics for lol

@filips2146 9 ай бұрын

panda is representing every wow andy that keeps defending the game atm. Every single one of them argues exactly like he does. I remember thinking like panda does when i used to be a wow andy but man all you need is to experience a good mmo (for me it was ff14) to realize how out of touch wow andys and the devs are. Every single one of them are clinging on to name of world of warcraft and past memories to justify this shit.

@sarmstrong7014 9 ай бұрын

mthr fckn GOTTEEM!

@NoobNoOne1 9 ай бұрын

I usually like watching these longer videos, but this conversation was anything but healthy

@LandeFTW 9 ай бұрын

Panda dodged so much that he could probably beat any souls game with the same number of dodges in his playthrough as the number of dodges presented in this video

@arolux9770 9 ай бұрын

14:25 Bellular regularly says the opposite. He says he doesnt blame the boots on the ground devs and attributes most failures to management. Panda is pulling that one out his ass

@backonlazer791 9 ай бұрын

Tbh, I don't remember Bellular saying ANYTHING he claims they've said. I'm pretty sure he was just trying to make a point and randomly picked Bellular News for some thumbnail that caught his eye, and now he's trying desperately to dig for dirt that isn't there.

@DadsCigaretteRun 9 ай бұрын

@@backonlazer791I’ve watched probably 70% of Bellulara videos…I don’t remember this AT ALL

@DadsCigaretteRun 9 ай бұрын

@@shimaphys if that was the instance I don’t see why Panda is being a white knight about it if the Dev started it.

@michaeldarcy909 9 ай бұрын

I don't think Panda knew what his argument was.

@professorpwerrel 9 ай бұрын

Well my point is this... (x20)

@zym6687 9 ай бұрын

@@professorpwerrel Asmon: "perfectly restates his point to him so he can hear what hes saying" Panda: "No what I meant was..." Says the exact same thing again.

@atrocious7766 9 ай бұрын

"Yeah, but...."

@jazzscorner4176 9 ай бұрын

"Panda used confusion, Asmon's skill 'mirror coat' reflects the confusion, Panda is confused, Panda hurts himself in his confusion"

@Cecil_Harvey 9 ай бұрын

Summary: 1) Panda is really jealous that bellular is making a game of his own. 2) Panda thinks Chris Metzen should be in prison for sexual harassment.

@disyntegrate 9 ай бұрын

Bellular doesn’t even need to respond to anything at this point, letting panda talk just helped him more than anything could have.

@KagirinaiYonaka 9 ай бұрын

This is basically Panda saying he doesn't like Bellular on a personal level but too afraid to say it straight so he tried to sugarcoat it with "I don't have problem with Bellular, I just don't agree with his opinion" cover.

@alfred9805 9 ай бұрын

"no offense, but"

@majorclanger8857 9 ай бұрын

Hes snarky and smug but thats just my opinion bro, its not personal

@daemonsalad 9 ай бұрын

- *Watches video for juicy drama* - *Dies from second hand embarassment*

@patrickb1303 9 ай бұрын

At this point I’m convinced wow players enjoy the drama around the game more than the game. It’s just been too many years of the same cycle.

@pollenus5796 9 ай бұрын

Bellular has expressed concern about what Chris Metzen and Mike Morhaime knew about the sexual misconduct while they were leaders at Blizzard. He has said multiple times that they had to have know about it to some extent and they didn’t take action, thus neither of them can be fully taken off the hook.

@TitanREW 9 ай бұрын

i love how Asmon went from how to cook a 2$ steak to cooking a panda for almost 2 hours...

@andrzejkulakowski 9 ай бұрын

Outstanding analogy 😂

@Eddie-xj6ov 9 ай бұрын

This is genius

@Twerkenstein 9 ай бұрын

this better get more likes

@Thorvald87 9 ай бұрын

this tells you how thick it was....🤣

@robertjr8474 9 ай бұрын

great comment

@bitzturnbyte9334 9 ай бұрын

Its actually really impressive to watch Zack stay calm for almost 2 hours and get this guy to understand why he had a hot take about Michael.

@elyootafaridzadeh1164 9 ай бұрын

yeah! iron peace buff :D

@glosske 9 ай бұрын

Right? He's vibing

@joshuafruth6420 9 ай бұрын

Dude, it is brutal and I still have an hour left to go but I'm already on this ride 🤣🤣

@TehBananaBread 9 ай бұрын

Not that hard when he knows its good content.

@mehmedmaloparic 9 ай бұрын

Zack, your patience is on a divine level. It is incredible how difficult it is for him to say "algorithm is positive when game is good, algorithm is negative when game is bad"

@Arcademan09 9 ай бұрын

"People talk loud when they want to sound smart, right?" - Squidward

@codywatson9627 9 ай бұрын

Damn Panda calling Bellular getting called egotistical.... I've always considered Bellular the Switzerland of WoW content

@hault360 9 ай бұрын

Then that makes Panda Germany

@derrfes 9 ай бұрын

@@hault360 or Italy, maybe Libya.

@ClowdyHowdy 9 ай бұрын

People who call others egotistical seem to often be egotistical themselves. This is one of those cases.

@michaelconnor664 9 ай бұрын

Listening to Panda refuse to take his L on stream was ridiculous.

@seer3336 9 ай бұрын

his brain straight up deep fried itself with all the cognitive dissonance

@tanatos1997 9 ай бұрын

Watching him trying to convince anyone that PvE balance is good was really funny, he was also banning people asking for his logs or pointing out that he only raids Normal.

@ryanlarrabee9811 9 ай бұрын

True but asmond got corrected by Esfand and Asmond wouldn't take an L. I think it's just streamer ego lol

@neveridle 9 ай бұрын

Idk this panda guy but his take is horrible. Bellilar is not that egotistical at all. Panda seems to be

@garytsang5673 9 ай бұрын

remember guys, making negative comments about GAME003 prevents the dev from being positive on GAME003. Therefore GAME003 sucks because of people like him who are negative on GAME003.

@AT-yu2op 9 ай бұрын

He wanted to stear up drama to boost his stream, you heard it his streams are dead. Too bad it backfired hard. He also knew Asmon was going to react to it if its on his reddit, he might have even posted it himself with a fake account. Thats why he was almost immediately available to come on discord. Pathetic considering his takes are super wrong and he hates on Bellular for no reason.

@Darko807 9 ай бұрын

It's so funny to see Asmon trying to get him to realize what's the core of this whole situation but he doesn't get it

@BuffAmogus 9 ай бұрын

This is my first impression of Panda and woah lemme tell you that was a doozy 😂 Panda: Literally deflecting and re-explaining his stance for about 30 min Also Panda: Okay we’re just going in circles now…

@Trygvar13 9 ай бұрын

Yeah and it took him 51 minutes to realize he had been saying the same thing over and over withough listening to a single thing Asmon was saying...

@selinameow 9 ай бұрын

@@Trygvar13And I don’t think Panda ever came to that realization. He was too busy either screaming, or waiting his turn to regurgitate his beaten words, instead of listening to try and learn something. It was a mess. Aston stayed calm, and stuck on-topic.

@XRay2x 9 ай бұрын

The short version of this video, for those who don't have time to watch this, is that Panda says he has 1 point to make, but that point is never made

@johnadam5702 9 ай бұрын

Brilliant! 😂

@andrzejkulakowski 9 ай бұрын

Insightful summary 😃

@jaydeeao 9 ай бұрын

This is an example of when someone makes a bad take, but refuses to see reason and instead doubles and triple down, realize that it's not working, and then changes the complaint....rinse and repeat.

@trektomordor 9 ай бұрын

Like, I by no means thought asmon was not intelligent. But wow his professionalism, intelligent responses and actual politeness was really refreshing and impressive. I’m not sure it was a productive use of his time but at least he tried 😂

@mirajanestrauss6386 9 ай бұрын

Calls him "snarky" then says "I'm not trying to talk shit" LOL

@Zunedoodle77 9 ай бұрын

Lol, yeah the reason Panda keeps saying "I'm not trying to talk shit" is because he knows he has the L take, and making enemies of Bellular is not a good PR move.

@greyknight5823 9 ай бұрын

Bellular's snark levels are honestly low-to-medium by Northern Ireland standards!

@aden5122 9 ай бұрын

Well I don't even think, if he was, that being snarky is inherently bad either.

@MrBloodshot 9 ай бұрын

@@aden5122 But joining your friend on another MMO is way over the line.

@ToadstedCroaks 9 ай бұрын

I liked Asmo calling him out on the "I"m not ____, but...." cognitive dissonance Panda was going through.

@generalgrievuuz 9 ай бұрын

Did I really just spend an hour and a half listening to a person refusing to say "I was wrong, my bad" trying to claw his way out of a hole he had dug for himself.

@jazzscorner4176 9 ай бұрын

I didn't see clawing, what I saw was the guy making the hole wider with how many circles he was spinning the conversation in.

@johnnysmith5923 9 ай бұрын

Hilarious how many times Asmon asked Panda why the algorithm was pushing the hate train, but Panda never actually figured it out. Edit: He kind of caught it at 51:00, but then lost it soon after. Impressed Asmon stayed patient for most of the hour before getting a chance to outright push his point (even if Panda failed to figure it out), and at 52:30, Asmon FINALLY gets his point across when given a chance to speak. You love to see it. (I mean Panda never "got" it, but mad props to Asmon.)

@OliveDasi 9 ай бұрын

Unless I'm mistaken, which I could be, let me give an example here. My husband teaches video game design at a university. When Pokémon Scarlett & Violet was released in the horrific state it still is in, he made an assignment to his students to list what the issues where, possible fixes, and how to avoid these in the future. He doesn't know the inner-workings of Game Freak/Nintendo. He isn't teaching his students that they can do better. It's a learning process and innovation. If any place, regardless of corporation, government, etc., receives no input from outside sources there will be no progress whatsoever.

@DashBlue 9 ай бұрын

as someone who doesn't know who this guy is, I get the impression that Panda is loud, obnoxious, and emotional to the point he's unable to see where he directly contradicts his own ideas the conversation just kept going in circles and random tangents about irrelevant topics I'm amazed at how much patience Asmon has

@slavsthetics2447 9 ай бұрын

Guy is emotionally unstable, says how his mic is shitty, proceeds to yell, interupts every single time Asmon, my god

@miracookie444 9 ай бұрын

No wonder he needed to buy a wife lmao

@twotallsocks 9 ай бұрын

"I'm amazed at how much patience Asmon has" Asmon was happy to farm 2 hours of content from this guy.

@PastureBBY 9 ай бұрын

how much he pays you to write that?@@gordonlove5121

@benhanna93 9 ай бұрын

he comes across as a coward only willing to act WITH the majority "everyone needs to agree"

@JaxonHaxon 9 ай бұрын

15 minutes in, this is already a huge L from panda, he's already proven wrong and i can't listen to 90 more minutes of a man digging himself deeper **"dig up stupid!!"**

@greyknight5823 9 ай бұрын

I'm at 30 minutes so far and I don't think he's answered a single question.

@nickl2571 9 ай бұрын

@@greyknight5823I'm at 47 mins. I can feel my brain cells dying but Asmon's cslmness in contrast to Panda is too amusing to stop watching XD

@jazzscorner4176 9 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, EoW isn't minecraft WoW only Andy's like Panda never learned how to dig up

@bobothehippo 9 ай бұрын

rich, an aussie calling anyone smug or snarky.

@soarlozer2808 9 ай бұрын

My biggest issue is he has a problem with bellular because he critiques the devs like literally every gamer/streamer/content creator but he actually has developed a game so it magically becomes snarky. I don’t see how bellular critiques are snarkier than the way asmon, preacher, etc critique dev decisions.

@melvindoo6558 9 ай бұрын

I hate this culture of internet we’re in right now where you can claim people said things like “he called them apes” and not provide receipts. If you’re going to come for people get some real damn evidence and examples and your ducks in a row. Panda was coping so hard and talking loud and fast and interrupting Asmon every 2 seconds. Really annoying.

@CB-lw7ty 9 ай бұрын

The wonderful thing about this, if you come at people with receipts and evidence in huge comments that prove your point...You just get the response of: TLDR ugh im not going to sit here and read a paragraph lol The reality is that the internet isn't a medium to have any kind of actual debate or argument because it always boils down to 2 people just sticking to their own ideals and when it doesn't go their way they can just switch it off and ignore it rather than have to stand there and face it.

@ToadstedCroaks 9 ай бұрын

If you're talking just casually between each other, I don't see the need to always have documented evidence about every single thing you say. That's exhausting and unnecessary. That said, if you are talking in a public manner, and intentionally making statements as a point of fact in a purposeful intent that centers around said talking point, you should definitely have those receipts.

@Fuchsfeuer 9 ай бұрын

That's how you can tell that they have no arguments or that their arguments are dogshit. If a person keeps interrupting you and contradicting themselves, you know that person is wrong. The only question is whether the person knows this or does not realize that they are wrong

@Ifslayanct 9 ай бұрын

hold on, let the guy comb through thousands of videos just for the massive audience to laugh and say "so what? it's true lul"

@NetherHound 9 ай бұрын

yeah, he basically just want to hijacked asmons stream if he doesn't let him talk and just keeps interrupting

@truejukes4958 9 ай бұрын

It is insane to hear Panda talk about "we're going around in circles" while circling back to the same issue time and time again is infuriating.

@ToadstedCroaks 9 ай бұрын

Again though, that's his point.

@truejukes4958 9 ай бұрын

@@ToadstedCroaks my issue is he never responds to the different counter points asmon brings up, or seem to understand that someone could take his video in a different way.

@diaperamess 9 ай бұрын

@@truejukes4958i think toaster was making a joke, not sure if you caught it my dude. (he was mimicking panda not actually defending him)

@mackparker9064 9 ай бұрын

@@truejukes4958 you didn't understand the first answer lmfao

@truejukes4958 9 ай бұрын

@@mackparker9064 went right the fuck over my head

@PraiseNotch 9 ай бұрын

This whole interview basically reads as " My stream career is dying and I needed something to impression farm for short lived fame"

@PraiseNotch 9 ай бұрын

Also this guy just hates Bellular and should just say that rather than waffling around and making random arguments to justify it.

@glassman3333 9 ай бұрын

Asmon: You could hire someone from fiver to fix the problems in wow. Panda: [Laughs] That we can agree on. Asmon: So do you agree that Bellular [who’s an actual game developer] can fix it then? Panda: No. Absolutely not. … It’s clear that this guy just doesn’t like Bellular.

@almostfaceman 9 ай бұрын

Bellular is totally milquetoast towards WoW I don't think he shits on WoW at all. I think his critique of the game is fair, and honestly it doesn't go far enough. I don't feel sorry for Blizzard, they get a ton of money so they should deliver a quality product.

@Govakhelsborne 9 ай бұрын

I feel like Bellular has his finger right on the pulse when talking about the general apathy that the core fanbase of Warcraft now has towards retail.

@mcvalley1273 9 ай бұрын

100%

@yyflame 9 ай бұрын

Asmon has an absolutely amazing talent of drilling down to the actual arguments and issues and exposing the fact that they are not being made rationally nor in good faith.

@Afasia420 9 ай бұрын

He's very immature and sexist on many issues. But the way he has clarity and understanding of most any issue is genius. And not a lot of people of this level bother to expend energy to explain something that is granted (for them)

@Wolves2314 9 ай бұрын

@@Afasia420he’s not sexist

@chill0141414 9 ай бұрын

@@Afasia420 you, and others like you, have diluted words like sexist, to a point where you have no idea what it means to actually be them.

@jaleshere 9 ай бұрын

This isn’t a special thing it’s just that most people don’t fuckin try, it’s not hard.

@Afasia420 9 ай бұрын

@@Wolves2314 what a perfect way to show why asmon is so good at what he does and you are not. I'm pretty sure asmon would be the first to admit he says some pretty sure shit about women publicly.

@icy6129 9 ай бұрын

Man he specifically said Bellular is lying about why he started playing FF then said he didn’t say that

@keylegacy1106 9 ай бұрын

Panda: that's not what I said, my point was * proceeds to change "point" that didn't make sense in the first place * Asmon: okay then well let me ask you this, * asks question * Panda: * verbal seizure, completely avoid question, incoherent bs * Asmon just calmly and casually picks this dude apart for the entire conversation and Panda is somehow too stupid to just go "ah, yeah, I had a bad take. You right". Asmon with the God-tier patience for sheer lunacy.

@scalorize7096 9 ай бұрын

This man really used "why not publically speculate that someone was involved in crimes without evidence, potentially ruining a career" as an argument

@gingerbill128 9 ай бұрын

that was such a stupid thing for him to say , really really stupid .

@KimchiKommander 9 ай бұрын

He took notes from the Amberheard stans. I think that ink was seeping to far into his fuckin' brain lol.

@jacoblunchbox9499 9 ай бұрын

😂 that shit was killin me

@badrequest403 9 ай бұрын

Dont know this guy but how i think about him after watching the video: - He's the type of person that if he's wrong he wont accept it - He cant logically talk/think through a problem without stumbling over his own words. - He likes to hear himself talk otherwise this 1h 44 Minute video would'nt have been a 70 Minute Monolouge - He cant ask questions without a 10 Minute Monolouge in which he contradicted himself 2-3x - He has poor communication Skills and interrupts half finished sentences all the time

@andynguyen7181 9 ай бұрын

I appreciate Asmon's efforts to guide the discussion in a way that would allow Panda to reach his own understanding of how the state of the game influences the perception of positive and negative videos. Panda couldn't arrive at that realization, not trying to listen but instead doubled down lol

@ElkGodEd 9 ай бұрын

Panda: But if I keep moving the goal post my opinion makes sense, right?

@oloseldarion7117 9 ай бұрын

Panda is completely off base making ad hominem attacks against Bellular here. Not only does Bellular make news videos which provide commentary on events in the WoW community but he also makes super generous lore and speculation videos. It’s not KZfaqrs’ or players’ fault the game is in decline. We are paying for a product and it’s fair to discuss it.

@DadGamer247 9 ай бұрын

Panda comes off as a salty Blizz fan boi with no specific evidence for his accusations against Bellular.

@Trygvar13 9 ай бұрын

@@DadGamer247 He sounded jealous because Bell is successful and his game is really fun.

@Johnsmithhjoe 9 ай бұрын

I have to assume that Panda is either trying to gatekeep criticism if it doesn't contain a solution OR he doesn't know how to properly convey his thoughts. The only logical position he could have gone with is that certain kind of feedback negatively influences game development, but he would also need examples (which exist across the gaming industry for both sides of that argument). Battlefront 2 would have been a terrible time sink without a wave of complaints. R6 Siege has been ruined by the vocal minority of casual players giving bad feedback.

@lavalasher 9 ай бұрын

Let me get this straight. Panda is mad that when the game is good, Bellular makes positive videos, and when the game is bad, he makes negative ones?... huh!?

@jazzscorner4176 9 ай бұрын

That's what I gathered. The only one who doesn't know that is Panda

@od1568 9 ай бұрын

I don't see the issue with it. He makes videos about Blizzard implementing awful design choices, which most of the community agreed were terrible, and the video does well. Blizzard make improvements, he talks about the improvements, the video does well, and Panda gets angry because Bellular isn't being genuine/moral/a last bastion of hope and divinely gifted intellect..? I think Asmon hit the nail on the head when he said Bellular reports on public sentiment about the game. I don't understand how someone could see that as problematic. I think Panda was annoyed at the delivery, not what Bellular had to say about the game, just how he says it. Almost like... a personal attack? But no, Panda denied he had any intention of that. Bellular was just stupid for getting mad at someone calling him an arrogant prick full of shit. He then went on an abstract philosophical tangent about court of public opinion and how no decision pleases all parties, how no one can make the best choice for everyone, and how Blizzard shouldn't change the game because someone somewhere would hate it as a result. Unwinnable debate for Asmon... @@jonathansoko1085

@BlackGod_Chernobog 9 ай бұрын

Panda: "[Insert bad take here]" Asmon: Proves why its wrong and a bad take* Panda: "I'm not trying to say that" does 180* Panda: "[Insert new bad take here]"

@abrobakamyuki 9 ай бұрын

Im 20 mins in and i can see why this guy had to get a Chinese mail order bride. Im happy that she cant understand him😂😂

@warezpl0 9 ай бұрын

Big props to Asmon for having patience and poise, I am one hour in and I would have lost it at least 5 times by now. It's impossible to talk to someone who can't see logic and thinks compliments are some way of offering middle ground. "FFIV was popular in big part of your streams, that's a compliment by the way" This guy just wanted to win and for someone to tell him he wasn't being an asshole.

@THEM0J0MAN 9 ай бұрын

I think the phrase this guys missing is: "Armchair Devloper" But Belullar is not an armchair developer, hes made a game. And a lot of the decisions made in WoW are just THAT DUMB. Asmon has the patience of a saint to try make this guy see from a perspective other than his own.

@blacksunshine9995 9 ай бұрын

He made a mobile game, let's try to remember that now.

@liricopetanco6257 9 ай бұрын

@@blacksunshine9995 you don't even need to make a game to know that some choices that Blizzard made where just bad. Mitick plus just sounds like raiding if you where force to go back to the last tier of raid and complete just to come back to where you where if your healer disconected.

@NarasG 9 ай бұрын

Panda be like: It's my opinion that Bellular is trash, and my opinion is objectively right, but that's just my opinion.

@colwellalec 9 ай бұрын

Him failing to understand the algorithm is a reflection of what people are interested in is very frustrating. Think Asmon did well to try to help him understand, but the dude was completely unwilling to compromise on his, tbh, confusing takes

@Dreampiece. 9 ай бұрын

Holy crap the longer you listen to Panda the easier it is to hate his perspective.

@orb8540 9 ай бұрын

Ironically, the 3 minute of uncut ranting was more convincing than the 1hour+ advocating for a position that got weaker and weaker.

@void1618 9 ай бұрын

Dude.. I didnt even know about this guy but the longer the video went on I felt myself absolutely disgusted by the shit he was saying.. how can you even think this is a "not that crazy of a point" lol.

@chrisarnone8704 9 ай бұрын

I completely disagree

@animelytical8354 9 ай бұрын

@@orb8540Trueeeeee! He's finding worse and worse points

@hault360 9 ай бұрын

Panda: says something very divisive and stupid Asmond: points out that his statement makes no sense Panda: "no thats not what I meant." proceeds to say the exact same thing just as divisive and stupid

@ToadstedCroaks 9 ай бұрын

Again though, that's his point.

@brachyzoid 9 ай бұрын

I can't believe one can feel so exhausted by just listening... and I'm not even halfway through the video

@RJWhitmore 9 ай бұрын

A lot of Panda's arguments appear to be chicken-egg (or cause-effect) problems - Panda says WoW fails because some streamers(/something else?) say negative stuff/play other games and then more and more streamers join an apparent hypetrain, whereas Asmon says streamers say negative stuff/play other games because WoW is failing. Asmon's take feels alot more likely to me than the Panda's. But thats kinda irrelevant, because if Panda is going to make the assertion then he should show that WoW is fine in order to show that the negativity must be because of a hypetrain and not because WoW if failing. It is not that Panda is wrong, it is that he fails to offer evidence to such a strong assertion and just points at things coinciding as meaning A causes B, when B could cause A just as likely (if not even more so).

@KeepItSimpleSarphas 9 ай бұрын

Sad truth is that this is a prime example of how a lot of people communicate. Listening only long enough to respond and completely disregarding everything said after the point they formulate said response. Asmon cool as a cucumber while talking to a brick wall.

@anthonyduncan8676 9 ай бұрын

this def had "asmon pulling up viewer logs and asking them to explain their position" energy, it was great!

@jazzscorner4176 9 ай бұрын

Same energy with the bonus of no load times on the viewers responses. Panda must be running on the PS6, load times so fast he's responding before Asmon can even finish his sentence

@LewisLogan 9 ай бұрын

It's clearly personal for the guy.

@christopherduncan803 9 ай бұрын

I think the biggest issue with WoW is the fact that its turning 20 years old next year, which is a very very very long tail for a game. It should have covered the original 3 games and wrapped up the events of Warcraft 3, and ended there. Calling it Warcraft 4: The Role Playing Game. Then World of Warcraft built on that should have been everything else that has expanded on the lore afterwards.

@Vhillain 9 ай бұрын

He moves the goalposts every time he is disproven with facts, speaks with feelings and then says "well that's not what I was saying" and tries to change the point every couple of minutes. Watching the whole argument about "one person cant do something everyone agrees with" was a nightmare, because from what I gather Asmon wants games to be better to the majority, and in current state there are a lot of games (edit: with functions) that only appeal to a minority of players and that minority playerbase only gets smaller over time. You can't make decisions that *everyone* agrees with, because not everyone shares the same opinion, but you can at least try to appeal to the masses and make an experience that most would say is a positive experience.

@BioMatic2 9 ай бұрын

The FFXIV argument was the worst. He was inmediately proven wrong about his innitial statement and completely changed his argument.

@ToadstedCroaks 9 ай бұрын

Again though, his main point.

@tcan225 9 ай бұрын

@@BioMatic2best part is that bellular actually jump started the movement toward 14. His videos are what got asmon interested in the first place.

@istiompaxindica9676 9 ай бұрын

dude I feel like he was either going in a circle or change what he's saying, and if he read the comment section, he's just gonna say "oh the viewers dont understand my points", cause of course we dont, apparently we just "agreeing with asmon" and thats it

@Vhillain 9 ай бұрын

@istiompaxindica9676 it's impossible to agree with a point that changes every time it's proven wrong :)

@derzenze3041 9 ай бұрын

This guy makes you appreciate Asmongolds conversation skills, because hearing the other guys arguments is infuriating. It is on the level of some high school kid. And you could clearly see that he didn't want to have a proper discussion, he wanted to be right.

@simonschneider5913 9 ай бұрын

I watch Asmon solely for his remarkable skills in reasoning and arguing! >Its like going to a good university class, no matter what topic.

@simonschneider5913 9 ай бұрын

@@Pers0n97 that rubbed me the wrong way as well, youre absolutely right on that. But there is very much more here...at least thats what i think. EDIT: maybe its just me being in germany, where pretty much nobody is able to think clearly anymore... i honestly dont know for sure! :)

@simonschneider5913 9 ай бұрын

@@Pers0n97 but compared to whats out there elsewhere, you will agree that asmon is pretty good?