Odysseus humanizing his enemies as he dehumanizes himself is crazy!!!

"JORGE, WHEN I CATCH YOU JORGE. JORGE, WHEN I CATCH YOU JORGE." - Theme of this song

Odysseus: do I have to change? Mortius: maaaaybeee. Odysseus: *changes Mortius: Not like THAT!!

I think Odysseus' issue is that he cannot believe that Man and Monster can coexist within an individual. In the case of Polyphemus, the bloodshed started once his sheep had been killed. Polyphemus is a monster for killing but a man for protecting. Circe is, in some ways, a monster for turning every man into a pig, but she's just a (wo)man protecting her peace. Poseidon is the only case that doesn't really fit and I think showcases Odysseus' reasoning crumbling. Poseidon is a god--therefore, he cannot be a man. Then Odysseus uses his personal example to justify his shame about both the horse and the infant, and cementing his belief that one individual cannot be both man and monster. Odysseus thinks the monster will help him get what he wants, but he didn't consider if the monster's ruthlessness can help him stay a man after the deed is done. Anyway he is the monster rawr rawr rawr

"And if I need to drop another infant from a wall in an instant, so we all don't die..." Man, what a line.... ...that he's crossing. Wow.

Hope you go watch Gigi's brilliant animatic for this as well, even if you don't record a reaction for it, it's still worth the watch! EDIT FROM FUTURE ME: Oh of course you kept it for your joint reaction for Casper. Your reactions were just as good as I expected!

That Penelope and Telemachus was not only bringing it back to the "what do you fight for" in the first song It was an answer to "When does the reason become the blame?" In the first song, it was the reason, now...

i am the monster rawr rawr rawr

9:10 I think he's saying that these beings don't feel remorse when doing what they think is right, not that they aren't monsters.

Cant wait to see Mortius completely traumatized by "Hold them down" 😊 But we got a loooong way to go until then...

And that is the moment when the Prophets words came true. He will eventually make it home but he will be totally unrecognizable to his wife. (no longer you)

I don't know if you noticed, but in Monster, the melody "if I became the monster..." is actually from *Polites'* song Open Arms. It shares a motif with "I can see you're getting nervous, so do yourself a service, and try to relax my friend" and other sections of that song, like when Odysseus sings "If we don't get back safely, my men will turn this place into blazes" so its such an interesting parallel. It's almost as if Odysseus is remembering Polites' advice but choosing to turn away from it, while also harking back to a time Odysseus threatened to commit 'monstrous' actions in order to 'get back safely.' Jorge's writing is truly ingenious.

When does a man become a monster? When he says rawr rawr rawr, of course

The transition from Odysseus to the Trojan horse is a master-class in symbolism.

I love how he doesn’t realize what the message of epic is until THAT MOMENT! it truly is perfect ❤ welcome to the downfall buddy get your popcorn we are about to watch a villain get his butt home!

oh, the song _starts out_ with a throwback to The Horse And The Infant - same sound opens both songs

I love how monster calls back to the 4 major evils, one for each previous saga. Of course Polyphemus, Poseidon, curce, and of course Odysseus from the troy saga. Its such a nice tie in,

9:40 let's not forget, the cyclops is Poseidon's son, its more human than not to seek retribution for hurting a family member.

Already gotta say that you NEED need NeEeEeEeD to watch Gigi's animatic to it. I believe it may well be the best EPIC animatic made yet! I know it ain't no competition, and they're all great in their own way, but that one was so astonishing that I had to take a long break after watching it to just process it and be in awe hah! Would be truly lovely if you made a vid reacting to it, but even if you don't, or it's Patreon only, I'll be glad to know you also got to see that masterpiece 💙🖤💙

Alternate title: Average nice guy overcorrecting into a bad boy, but it's Epic

Have to say it, just got to... I am the monster rawr rawr rawr 😊

the problem is this is the world with Greek gods, open arms gets you killed by asshole gods and monsters they spawned, I do wish Odysseus was better, but he was made by this world and from his perspective taking on naive advice from his friend got everyone killed. Remember most of that came from the guilt of his killing the infant and was directly opposed to the years of Athena teaching him to be the ruthless killer.

"I want all of that again." Yep, you're definitely an Epic fan. The main symptom is emotional masochism. 🤣

Your reaction is how i imagined Polities will said to Odysseus in Underworld if he can see and interact with his best friend for the final time😭😭😭

Finale for now! Don't forget we still have part 2 when it comes and 20 songs. But it is a finale of part 1 of Epic...

For a moral equivalent to the Cyclops, have to ever watched John Wick?

My thought process on Poseidon, is that for him to make sure that other gods don't see less of him, and try to fight him, or allowing more mortals to do what they please against him, he needs to be ruthless, cause if he doesn't more people will hurt his kids, and not take his word as seriously. Yes i do think that his reasoning his the more monstrous of the ones given, but i think there is still a reasoning behind it, that makes sense.

Maybe the real Epic was the monsters we rawred along the way 🦖

Mid-watching thought: I'm sure you're going to get this by the end of the video, but I don't think the song is questioning as much what makes someone become a monster, but IF being the monster is the best way to make it out alive. So yeah, the examples given for the Cyclops, Circe and Poseidon still don't make them good people, but the real question there is "Being like that makes them feel bad? Or are they okay with being monsters because they know that's the way to survive?"

8:38 spoiler The only thing i can think of is Antonius' hold him down. "Hold us down while the throne gets colder, Hold us down while we slowly age; Hold us down while the boy gets bolder, Where the hell is our pride and our rage?"

mortius, calm down mate, odysseus has been through so much already, he even tried to be merciful to the cyclopse but all he got was a visit from poseidon. and he was even in a sense betrayed by his own crew when they opened the bag of winds. he's been hurt by the world when he tried to greet it with open arms, and now he is tired of being disappointed in the world and loosing the people around him due to his mercy, so this is a very justified reaction from odysseus.

11:34 When I first listen to this part I was like "JORGE BREATH" like it's genuinely jaw dropping, it's such a fascinating saga. the whole show is amazing but I can't wait omg I want more epic😭

Pretty sure I saw Jorge in a clip saying that the "end goal" for Odysseus is to become more ruthless. So from that POV Monster is a good thing, our protagonist is becoming stronger 👍

Fun fact: most people have headcannons like this one where Polites wears a headband, and one he dies Odysseus takes and wears it. Until this song where he tears it off.

Rawr Rawr Rawr

8:33 Maybe its the Know that he grow from a boy to an avenger One fumed with rage as you’re consumed by age

Odysseus: "...and if i gotta drop another..." Mortius: 😃 Odyssues: "... infant from a wall..." Mortius: 😦

Cyclops avenging his friend and knowing he's done him right and Circe learning to be colder when she got older are such good parts! 👏👏 Then Odysseus questioning his wooden horse because in real world romans (who thought their ancestors were from Troy) hated Odysseus because he did that and was a coward in doing so! 😁

the spiral of Ody just caving to become a monster is kind of the point. Greek tragedy pulls zero punches and it is meant to be an example of how bad shtt gets when you hit every branch on the way down the Things go Bad tree. its about how a man can delude themselves and ruin who they were.

I love this musical, and I love its message. Jorge has talked about how it's Odysseus learning in his world. Mercy often fails because it's a world to full of war. But to take the message and apply it into your life it's, a story asking. When you stop being merciful, when you've used every peaceful solution. And failed. And as a result hurt the people you love were who were truly innocent. When do you become violent? When do you hurt the bad to same the good. When do you become the monster to protect what's yours. It's also why I love how Odysseus brings up the horse in hie comparisons. He did that. He at the start has already killed hundreds, so why couldn't he do the same when his friends and crew were in danger ?

Even if you have already watch this a while ago, now that you got up to day in youtube, i can now officially give you this Winion badge- Finally welcome! You'll be stuck here forever!😊💙 Now that you finished (for now) i know that you and Caster have reacted to a cut song called Your light, i thought that while you waited, you could react to the cut song Ismarus. It has a lot of Hamilton vibes and it was meant to be before Your light. Anyways, we'll see you next saga!⚡

Now you have to do a tier list for the Epic songs

Mortius I understand the comparisons this way, I am a monster for this but I am "human" for this, Polyphemus did what he did for his sheep who were like his pets, Circe for her nymphs who are like his daughters and Poseidon started all this because that they blinded their son, and in this way they are being merciful to themselves, Polyphemus in the end killed those men but avenged his friend (that is, he alleviated his guilt for not protecting her), Circe turned them into pigs but protected her nymphs (he avoided or did not give them a chance to be hurt), Poseidon killed 557 men (Elpenor was not killed by Poseidon, he died after falling from Circe's roof in a drunken state) as a warning so that in the future no one would dare to annoy him or disrespect him (Or his children because all this was because Polyphemus went to complain to his daddy), so they are "saving" future discomfort/pain, they are being merciful to themselves by being cruel to Odysseus, just like he was merciful with his people by being cruel to the people of Troy. I think that's how everyone comes into the comparison of I'm a monster for "protecting", actually Poseidon is the most questionable BUT... he is an all-powerful god who has an entire kingdom at his disposal as big as his ego so it was to be expected.

i cannot recommend checking out gigi’s animatic for this song enough!! it’s one of my favourites from them:0

part of the ship, part of the crew! welcome to the pain of waiting between arcs

"JORGE, WHEN I FIND YOU JORGE" yeah I think that resumes the musical very well

Two things of note. One; the souls of his dead men are no longer calling Odysseus Captain but a Monster. That feels like foreshadowing to me. And Two; the Prophet said that a Man will make it back to Ithica, but Odysseus is now a Monster. His fate is sealed now.

The transition from Jay singing along to the lyrics to the animatic with the lyrics was SO damn cool!! Edit: technically Poseidon was avenging his son whom Odysseus blinded. He certainly didn’t need to kill all his men though, his beef is strictly with Odysseus

Fun fact. This exact song is why the prophet said "thats no longer you"

Nah cuz think about when this becomes an actual, on-stage musical. THIS is where the intermission would be. THIS is where the break would be. THIS is the moment where the lights go up for a 10 minute break. Can you imagine watching this for the first time, 'Monster' finishes and then suddenly the curtain drops and the lights go on 😭😭

I think what Odysseus is saying is that in a different view even Circe, the cyclops are not monsters. Poseidon is a God and known to not be a very patient one. So I think he doesn’t count. But to her nymphs is Circe a monster? No she is protecting them. To the other Cyclops’s is the poly(can’t spell his name) a monster? No, he was just trying to avenge his pet. Extreme for humans but might be normal for the cyclops. Are men in wars monsters? If a home invader tries to hurt someone’s family and get shot. Is the person who protected their family a monster because they shot the invader? Humans tend to view any opposing side as the monster when the opposing side probably feels the same way. But in Odysseus case, he could have just shut up. If he didn’t let his hubris get in the way. I do think it would be best is Odysseus had a balance. Greet the world with open arms, cautiously. But I do know that in the Odyssey, every creature and several gods seems to be against Odysseus. So maybe him being a monster is the only way? 🤷‍♀️

13:41 In an Alternative Reality… Odysseus: Greet the world with open arms~ Poseidon: Allow me to reiterate what I taught you the first time. RUTHLESSNESS IS-

It’s crazy that this is only the end of Act 1

It's also worth noting that Monster starts with the exact same sound that The Horse and the Infant does

THIS SONG! This song was the one that I first heard that made me obsessed with this musical (back when it was just a few concept clips), love how well he's fleshed it out for this version.

Hey, I know you probably wont see this but I hope you do to clarify a few things; since I see a lot of misconceptions with this song and I really hope you don’t get the same! This isn’t Ody becoming evil or fully ruthless- this is about him finding the _capacity_ to be ruthless! The message of the show is how you need to know when and how to be ruthless in order to protect yourself and your loved ones (Jorge says this in numerous videos). Odysseus’s problem was that he was _too_ merciful (via sparing the cyclops) not that he was merciful period. Odysseus is learning what sometimes must be done to survive! The song takes great care to clarify this with lyrics like: “If I became the monster, and threw that guilt away. Would that make us stronger? _Would it keep our foes at bay?_”,“Five hundred men gone this can’t go on”, “If I gotta drop another infant from a wall _in an instant so we all don’t die_”, “I must become the monster, and then we’ll make it home.” All of these reference protecting his men or himself in some way! I’m pretty sure Jay mentioned in a video how Ody isn’t just becoming a ruthless villain (my words not his) but rather finding a balance between “Greet the world with open arms” and “Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves”. But I could be misremembering. There’s more I could say but it’d be referencing future songs and I don’t want to spoil anything for you! Sorry if this is confusing or comes across as a little aggressive. It just sort of saddens me to see people call Ody evil or morally dark after this song. Since they’re kind of missing the whole message of the story :(( it’s a genuinely important life skill to know how (and when) to be “ruthless” or selfish! You just simply can’t be nice to everyone if they’re hurting you or your loved ones. (Also I typed this up very quickly because I’m sort of busy so forgive my wordiness)

When you said that you shouldn’t compare the life of a sheep and a person, I felt a little funny, because I know for sure that for the sake of my cats I will take both into the fire and into the depths of the ocean. Even if I'm afraid of fire and don't know how to swim. And if someone had harmed them, I certainly would not have killed the person, but he would not have gone unpunished and certainly would not have paid off with wine. But my mother could easily kill someone for this😅 So, I kind of understand Cyclops

You should go back and watch it as the full first act with your favorite animatics for each song both with foresight like you are going with CF and to experience it as a hole piece to see how it's different from bit by bit over.

I recently read in another comments section that Jorge actually said in an interview that the souls are actually singing the last thoughts they had before their death. Which just makes the whole situation more upsetting because even in his last moments Polites was thinking about having an open and kind heart

9:05 Precisely. Ody's off the deep end at this point. He thinks that being a monster is *_the_* way to succeed his objective. Poseidon was monstrous to Odysseus's men, and now everyone's too scared to piss him off, which is ultimately what Poseidon wanted, to keep mortals in check and have them respect him, even if only out of fear. Circe is the more rational comparison. She turned men into pigs to protect her nymphs, which has clearly worked since the time they faced a heavy loss. Odysseus isn't concerned about being good, he's concerned about being successful in his goal to get back home alive. Every other life be damned.

"Who is the monster in this" thats what the song is about

Y’know, I just noticed something in Monster at 10:50 with the background vocals singing "Monster" along with Odysseus. The vocals singing "Monster" constantly sounds a lot like the soldiers shouting and calling Odysseus a Monster which emphasizes the shift in Odysseus’s character into the monster.

I love this quote I saw. “Sometimes you must unleash the monster within you… so long as you don’t lose yourself to it. And you know when to let it rest once more.”

"Colder...older" appeared in "Where do we go" By Lindsey Stirling (feat. Carah Faye) Chorus: Now that I'm older Now that it's colder life keeps on crashing day after day like wave after wave we did everything right and now I'm asking Where do we go oh when our prayers are answered? and the answer is no

You said that Polities cameo didn't hurt, but it did when I heard it for the first time without watching any of the animatics, so I DIDN'T REALIZE HE WAS DEAD UNTIL THE UNDERWORLD. Anyway, this is my favorite song in Epic, and I love watching other people experience it

Apparently, Jay hasn't gotten paid a single dollar in royalties from The Troy Saga OR The Cyclops Saga, (thanks, Blair Russell and Blair Russell Entertainment) so the cast rerecorded them, released them under Jay's LLC Winion Entertainment, and debuted them in the livestream for the latest saga. The new versions are even better. I'm still processing what I just watched. I won't say prepare yourself, because that's impossible. It's yet another amazing Saga.

Fun fact: polites wasn't telling Odysseus to "greet the world with open arms" exactly, the dead are singing their thoughts during their last moments, which is even worse for Odysseus cus it means that in his last moments polites was so sure that it would work, only to get killed for it

Notification: On! I can't wait to see your reaction! This song has been on repeat for me since it came out!

It’s all about perspective

13:40 What makes it so much worse is that the change comes right after the Circe Saga, the ONE SAGA IN THE ENTIRETY OF ACT ONE WHERE GREETING THE WORLD WITH OPEN ARMS PAID OFF FOR ODYSSEUS. Circe said it herself at the end of There Are Other Ways: “Maybe showing one act of kindness leads to kinder souls down the road”. After EVERYTHING Odysseus was forced to endure on his journey, most incidents not even being his fault, showing mercy by not killing Circe and showing her his true intentions worked IN HIS FAVOR. After everything, Polite’s words rang true for Odysseus, only for him to say “F*** it, I’m getting us home even if it means mercilessly slaughtering anyone and everyone that gets in my way” one saga later. I REALLY hope that Odysseus doesn’t run into Circe again in the second act of EPIC, because I know that she’s going to be SO disappointed to learn that yet ANOTHER person she showed mercy to wound up becoming someone she can’t trust. I honestly feel that with time, Circe could’ve become a really reliable ally and maybe even new mentor for Odysseus, especially since she’s made it clear that she has the same views as him by the end of the saga, but all of that potential burned the second the Underworld Saga came to a close.

you know the music is good cause my first thought before the song was even done was "I gotta go listen this all again"

I have been waiting for this! And now even though it's only the end of act one I feel like I can say this because it ties into the song monster. If you look back at every choice he's made through act 1, Odysseus has always become the monster anytime Penelope or telemachus or his reunion with them have been threatened. It's only when his family really comes into it that he throws his mercy away. And he said so way back in the song Just A man. He would trade the world to see his son and wife. The prophet has told him that there is a chance he won't make it home, and I think this is him coming to terms with the fact that the reason he isn't the one in the prophet's vision is because he has no choice but to change if he wants to see them again and so he will do it. No regrets. That's how I see it at least.

I know it's been a few days since you posted this but there's an interesting consideration. I agree that Poseidon killing an entire fleet of men so that his power is respected isn't comparable to say, Circe protecting her nymphs or Odysseus using his Trojan horse to end a decade long war... however: Odysseus is seeing a parallel in what happened just before they met with Poseidon. If he had been harsher with his men, if he had made sure they wouldn't piss him off, they would have not opened the bag of winds that then carried them away as they were right about to get home. As a king, who in terms of ruling power can be seen as a sort of god among men, he thought he should have used his power more rather than treat his subjects like friends.

@mortius "Learn to be colder when she got older" might be familiar to you if you go back to The Horse and The Infant "...he will grow from a boy to an avenger/one fueled with rage as he's consumed by age". I dunno if they're direct parallels the way "have I been too kind to foes but a monster to ourselves" is to Ruthlessness but I knew what you were thinking of

"Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves." That can be deciphered differently depending on what an individual is trying to protect. They were all protecting something different (their sheep, their nymphs, their power as a god, their men), and in turn they had to be ruthless to protect those things. In the end, while they were all trying to bring mercy upon different aspect of their own lives (be it mercy on their own self or on those they wanted to defend), they all had to commit similar atrocities to keep that balance.

The colder older rhyme structure sounds a bit like Hamilton’s “These New York City streets get colder I shoulder…” Maybe.

The absolute shock on your face is priceless, the slow building of horror in your face! And the denial of the wait at the end. I adore your reactions man! Great video, love your stuff.

The chorus kicking in once he’s finally determined to be the monster? Repeating Poseidon’s words immediately after?? Damn Jorge That hurts me in the feels

You monster. /affectionate

Will you react to Gigi's monster animatic? It's one of the best, turned out absolutely INCREDIBLE!

I love how basically the whole song there is small hints of the danger motif in almost every section

I believe in earlier songs when Ody was singing about Penelope, there was some violin background - he was missing her and thinking about her. But now it's accompanied by the chorus of "monster". As if it was an aswear for a question "when does the reason become the blame". Now. He's not thinking about his wife and searching for a reason to sail forward. He's kind of blaming her (or the situation) for his further actions.

🌊🔱😤I think it Poseidon's reference was that he was "protecting" his reputation at this part- 9:17

It took relistening to it repeatedly, but It just clicked that he is not Justifying the enemies he has faced, but rather asking if them being monstrous is justified because they get what they wanted out of it, the cyclops get revenge for his sheep, Circe gets to protect her nymphs, Poseidon gets respect, the trojan horse wins the war, sure they are immoral, but if that monstrous act wins them their goal, does that not inherently justify it?

Mortius might never see this, but whenever I listen to Monster I always think of the simularities in the opening musical sequence to The Horse and the Infant

So I have a huge hot take that might get me lynched before I finish my little essay character and theme study explaining it. I want to love this song so much, but I don’t think it’s perfect. And, as a writer I felt like I have to say something, because I think one line could have been a significant factor in whether Epic the Musical’s themes come off as a little confusing in retrospect or a NARRATIVE MASTERPIECE. And the fix would have been SO EASY. While I did take Poseidon’s inclusion in this song a little differently (Poseidon gives sailors fair waters to sail on, so he needs to strike fear into their hearts so they don’t take advantage of his good will and take him for a doormat to disrespect. Odysseus’s flaw in dealing with Poseidon and Polyphemus is one: hubris. Poseidon gave them fair waters for their journey home and Odysseus blinding his son and making self-righteous excuses to take no accountability for his own actions is how Poseidon is repaid. That’s how I took it anyway), so I think it could still fit with the other examples, but there’s another line I don’t agree with. Gotta set the stage. So, the more time goes by, the more the “infant” line of this song bothers me. I could be misconstruing its meaning, but it sounds like confirmation that Odysseus killed the infant in “I’m Just a Man.” Strictly listening to the actual song itself, it’s never confirmed that Odysseus actually kills the infant, which beautifully reflects the mythology, which can never decide and has no “right answer” regarding how and by whose hand Hector’s son died. SO. My issue comes in two interconnected parts. First, with the themes Jorge so wonderfully crafted throughout all four released sagas and subsequently follows through with during the portions of all the later songs that we’ve heard. The themes of Ruthlessness vs. Mercy are first introduced to us in “The Horse and the Infant,” and the following three sagas present to us two instances of direct foils that embody each one, directly opposing the other. Athena embodying Ruthlessness, Polites embodying Mercy. And once those characters exit that portion of the narrative, Poseidon replaces Athena in theme and pushes it further, and likewise Circe replaces Polites’s role, pushing the theme of a more shrewd mercy that is well aware of the danger and acts with careful consideration for the safety of her own, a mercy that would be right up Odysseus’s alley. In all four released sagas, Odysseus is portrayed as a bit neutral, erring a bit on the side of mercy but never fully committing. His character straddles the middle of two sides that are vying for influence over his character. Which is a perfect setup, because during “Monster” we’re supposed to feel like something has changed, and we’re permanently losing a piece of him. It’s supposed to feel tragic because we’ve heard both sides of the Ruthlessness vs. Mercy “argument”, and after Circe, it almost feels like exclusively choosing Ruthlessness in “Monster” is the wrong choice. And it’s SO BEAUTIFULLY TRAGIC for that. That’s EXCELLENT storytelling, and our hearts as the audience ACHE when he makes that decision, exactly the way they’re supposed to. But if it’s revealed to us now that he killed the baby all the way back in The Troy Saga, those themes feel spoiled because our perception of the character has changed, and we as listeners can’t focus on the change that’s happening in him during “Monster” because we’re too distracted by “Oh wait, WHAT, he KILLED the baby??” So because Odysseus no longer looks like a “neutral” to us in the beginning (because we view past-Odysseus differently now), his choosing Ruthlessness in “Monster” isn’t as potent a plot point anymore, so the themes become diluted. It’s not as powerful a change in character, and thus the themes fall a little flat and aren’t as powerful as they were without that confirmation. Secondly, speaking of Odysseus’s character. “The Horse and the Infant” is the “establishing shot” that tells us that Odysseus as a character is a smart man, but a very tenderhearted one. The Cyclops Saga tells us that Odysseus would sooner risk his men’s safety so long as it meant he didn’t have to kill Polyphemus. Yet, even though the risk of sentencing his men to death at the hands of a cyclops was much higher than the risk of Hector’s son becoming a vengeful warrior when he becomes an adult (when there would be easy ways to prevent that outcome without killing him), we as the audience are supposed to believe Odysseus would spare the life of a murderous cyclops and kill an infant simply because Zeus says so? To add to that, Zeus is the one who commands Odysseus to kill Hector’s son, and Athena, whom Odysseus has a much closer and more friendly relationship with, is the one who tells Odysseus to kill Polyphemus. But according to this one lyric in “Monster,” we’re supposed to accept that, in the Cyclops Saga, Odysseus disobeyed Athena, his mentor, because MERCY, but killed a baby earlier in the story because ZEUS? And we’re never given a hint that Odysseus has any deep reverence for the gods beyond what is needed to spare his life and the lives of his men. In fact, Eurylochus points out in “Luck Runs Out” that Odysseus keeps angering gods without caring for the consequences. So why would Odysseus obey Zeus at the beginning in this context based on a hypothetical? It just doesn’t make any sense to Odysseus’s character that he would have killed the child directly, particularly when Jorge set up this “merciful, cunning, good guy” image we’re supposed to have of him in this first third of the musical. And, if he killed the child at the very beginning, that would also hurt the themes Jorge so painstakingly set up with his other sagas. If Odysseus kills the infant in the beginning, then the whole idea of “Mercy and Ruthlessness fighting over Odysseus like children over a doll” feeling just doesn’t come across as well anymore. HOWEVER, Jorge could have easily turned this into something more fantastic than it already was!! By adjusting that one line in “Monster” just a SMIDGE, he could have significantly altered the audience’s perception of the themes in the whole work. He could have kept it ambiguous but still have “Monster” be a turning point with a killer cruel line, implying that if Odysseus was faced with the same scenario again, he’d kill the infant this time. OR, and this was a fantastic suggestion from a musician friend of mine, if Odysseus didn’t have the heart to kill the infant, but just left the boy there instead (indirectly killing him because it isn’t established that there is anyone left to care for the child). So the infant will have died from Odysseus’s LACK OF ACTION, while Odysseus would proclaim it as mercy in his mind, but ultimately that choice would still doom the infant nonetheless, and to a far more painful death. In which case, how much more powerful would that make Poseidon’s line “You are the worst kind of good ‘cuz you’re not even great. A greek who reeks of self-righteousness, that’s what I hate! ‘Cuz you fight to save lives but won’t kill and won’t get the job done.” in retrospect? Sorry for the essay, I just LOVE this show so much, and I wanted it to be at its VERY BEST, which would most certainly be a narrative masterpiece. I know as a writer it’s easy to get in your head and miss the forest for the trees sometimes. It just hurts my heart that this tiny little thing could muddle it up a bit for some people…

"I see your wife with a man who is haunting...A man...with a trail of bodies." "I see a man who gets to make it home alive...But it's no longer...You."

Poseidons point can still have the same meaning as Circe's. The drowning came about because someone maimed a child of Poseidon and boasted of it. To protect himself and his descendants, an example has to be made.

'... Because I'll be reacting to that as soon as the next saga drops' Well, I'm thrilled that we'll have content of Epic (days or weeks) after the next saga, and I hope we can get more R/A with Casper too❤❤❤

Funny thing i only now caught: the final sound we hear sounds like its the start of the first sound that fades in at the beginning of "the horse and the infant" to maybe illustrate the circular nature of odysseus' arc

Please let it be Gigi’s animatic.Please let it be Gigi’s animatic.Please let it be Gigi’s animatic.Please let it be Gigi’s animatic.😭🙏

I love that your inner Polites came out thru out this reaction it would be cool if both you & Casper cosplayed as Polites when yall react to the underworld saga again I hope you watch the animatics that are out for the underworld saga with Casper or when you do it solo Thanks for the insight can't wait to see you next time for Act 2 whenever that comes lol

anyone else rewatching his reactions getting hyped for him to react to the thunder saga?

35 HOURS????? YOU- AWE COME ON!

I highly recommend watching Gigi’s full animatic for Monster and WolfyTheWitch’s clip. They’re both amazing and add a lot of UMPF to different parts of the song.

Ximenas animatic for no longer you is great

Odysseus: Ill become the Monster! Poletys: Am i a Joke to you?

Phenomenal writing. Been loving the reactions btw, keep it up!

I think that he always was a monster. He just never saw it. The baby killing was his choice a price for lives of sleeping Trojans. He says Please don't make me do this. But that was always his choice. I understood that Odysseus is a man that always puts his family first. Always. He was always like this from the very begining. Posidon was angry at him becouse he had the goul to claim raciousnes and spare his son's life when his hands were covered in blood. Only way for people to stop dying is if he stops his quest and accepts that his family will suffer for his sins. I think that will be a point of Calypso arc. She will give him a option to give up on his quest but he will of course reject it and lose everything to get back to his family.

Your reaction is one of by far my favorites and i was so excited for this today :))