A Tow Ball is NOT an option in a 4x4 Recovery? FIND OUT WHAT GOES WRONG

Рет қаралды 66,354

4 жыл бұрын

Tow Balls and Hitch receivers have FAILED when used as an anchor point in a 4x4 Snatch Strap recovery. People have been KILLED. FIND OUT WHAT GOES WRONG and what makes tow ball vehicle recoveries so dangerous.
Ronny Dahl - Tow Ball recovery goes wrong Part 1 • Tow Ball recovery goes...
Robert Pepper - Snatch / KERR safety - one tip to make it safer • Snatch / KERR safety -...
Why the 1.5x recovery rule is dangerous - • Why the 1.5x recovery ...
By making a purchase on the below website you help support me to continue to make 4x4 Content that I hope you appreciate.
With any purchase on the A247 website use the code MadMatt for a discount. At the time this video was published the discount was $20 off any purchases over AU$100
www.a247.com.au/ap/MadMatt4WD/
The references to Hayman Reece are in no way suggesting they are causing any deaths or injuries. They make an excellent Tow Bar system that is fit for service. Components that fail are failing due to the component being used outside of its design parameters.
Here at MadMatt 4wd there is everything from 4wd tips and tricks to fixing your four wheel drive. As a professional Four Wheel Driver I am all about educating and building the 4x4 community. If you are passionate about going bush with a 4x4 then this channel is for you. Enjoy and please subscribe & Hit the bell icon to be notified as soon as they're up!!!
MadMatt 4wd on Social Media:
Facebook: / madmatt4wd
Instagram: / madmatt4wd
#madmatt4wd #snatchstrap #recoveryrope

Пікірлер: 520

@etc-and-more Жыл бұрын

I just wanted to let you know that even though this video is 2 years old there are a bunch of us new-to-offroad guys that very much appreciate that you are helping to save lives and avoid injury by clearly demonstrating the correct and incorrect equipment.

@MadMatt4WD Жыл бұрын

Thanks for saying that Bob. There’s lots of content here to learn from.

@bryanbrowning5746 3 жыл бұрын

Nice presentation! Thank you for illustrating the “stress riser” in particular, in a way that a layperson can understand! I was a witness and first aid provider to a bystander who was observing a recovery who was in the danger zone, and was struck in the thigh by a tow hitch that broke and became a projectile. The force was enough to break that person’s femur! A vehicle recovery turned into a two hour medical evacuation! Anyway, thanks again, and I’m a huge fan of your channel!

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Bryan. As you possibly may have seen in the comments. So many people still think I’m wrong.

@maximus2969 4 жыл бұрын

Well put together and informative,Can't stress safety in any situation enough,especially with recoveries and firearm safety

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Tow Balls and Hitch receivers have FAILED when used as an anchor point in a 4x4 Snatch Strap recovery. People have been KILLED. Ronny Dahl - Tow Ball recovery goes wrong Part 1 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m6x0Z6mVlZnGoWw.html Robert Pepper - Snatch / KERR safety - one tip to make it safer kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mtOleMSUz9qlhok.html Why the 1.5x recovery rule is dangerous - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/baqSoqdmvbCvoIU.html

@misdamagoo213 4 жыл бұрын

Nice job! Lotsa clear reasoned explanation & a good dose of common sense.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@bushmancam 4 жыл бұрын

Great vid mate, I had to explain this to a mate I was recovering a couple of months back after he chucked the strap over my towball, I told him to watch the Ronny Dahl video, he had no idea how dangerous it is

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks.

@chrisscibisz9231 4 жыл бұрын

This is a great video of why not to use a tow ball for a recovery. Thank you for explaining the reasons so well. There’s a good chance you might save someone from injury or death in the future. Glad I found your channel and now decided to subscribe.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the support

@jackfourbee3609 4 жыл бұрын

Well said Matt. As usual very informative. On the ball. 😁 Keep up the good work. 👏👏

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, will do!

@biggs8729 3 жыл бұрын

So I watched the other video where Ronny intentionally makes the tow ball fail and my take away was that the tow ball is incredibly strong. He took a 10 meter snatch rope and got a full speed run at the tow ball with as much speed as he could and that tow ball held over and over again. He did eventually get the ball to fail, but I think it took about 4 or 5 tries hitting it with as much speed as he could. For subsequent tests, he ended up having to cut half way through the shank on the balls and they still were very strong. I’ve never subjected a vehicle to that kind of torture while trying to make a recovery, but if I did, Yes, I would use a better recovery point. Now I’m not saying that tow ball is the best place to hook to, but for the average stuck vehicle, it’s more that adequate for a recovering. Like all things, it requires a measure of common sense and if you don’t have it, I guess follow the advice in this video.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

You make some good points. Use the right tool for the job especially when it's so cheap and easy to do.

@stewbird 3 жыл бұрын

I think what Ronny was trying to show was what could happen in the worst case scenario. It might work 99 out of 100 times but you never know when that last time will be. No one knows the true strength of any tow ball internally. Could have been a bad cast etc.

@talkingtrashtom 2 жыл бұрын

Maybe a difference in shaft size as well, 3/4 vs 1inch, tight bolt vs loose bolt, etc. 2inch reciever vs 1 1/2 inch.

@chickensfloat7427 2 жыл бұрын

The temptation to hammer the gas is always there though once connected

@biggs8729 2 жыл бұрын

Not really, I like my truck enough that I'm never going to smash the throttle like that. Maybe somebody else will, but not me. If Ronnie would have put a forged receiver, a 2-in ball with a 1 inch shank in the back of his rig, he would have ripped the back of that Toyota off before breaking that ball. He purposely got light duty tow balls to try to prove his point. Not saying it's a bad point, just don't condemn everybody out there that drops the strap on their tow ball for a simple recovery. Not everyone is driving a dedicated off-road vehicle and sometimes you have to help the next guy with what you have.

@BenMitro 3 жыл бұрын

Wow Matt, so well explained. Thanks.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

@cameronlee4386 3 жыл бұрын

This was a good video except when he says Ronny Dahl did a good video any receiver that got put through what he did to the tow ball would have failed. And if you sawed halfway through a d ring and chained it to a tree and then drove off as fast as you could it would break. Let alone do it 8 times and destroy the frame on your vehicle before it breaks.

@stewbird 3 жыл бұрын

@TruBluOffroad 3 жыл бұрын

@@stewbird if that's the case no one knows the true strength of the cute recovery points that all these uneducated "experts" recommend. or a tow bar you put a recovery hitch into, or the bolts holding it all to the chassis, or the chassis itself. These "experts" like Dickhead Dahl falsely scare people into attaching to things a lot weaker than a tow ball, causing actual dangerous situations. There's an increasing amount of occurrences where "rated" recovery points are ripping off and flying along with a shackle. No 4x4ing snatch strap or kinetic rope has, or is going to, snap a tow ball, as demonstrated by Dickhead Dahl, the chassis will let go of the whole tow bar before a 2/3 cut through tow ball will break. Think about it.

@cjr4497 3 жыл бұрын

@@TruBluOffroad You do realize that people have been killed by tow balls that broke free during a recovery right?! He mentions it less than 15 seconds into the video. It happens and is well documented. They essentially turn into cannon balls when they go. That is all Ronny Dahl was trying to demonstrate. The whole point is attaching to something that will not kill someone if it breaks.

@TruBluOffroad 3 жыл бұрын

@@cjr4497 He say's it on the internet, it must be true!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@Lucas12v 3 жыл бұрын

@@cjr4497 people have also been killed by airbags and seat belts. There's a lot of people in the world so almost anything that can happen will. That doesn't mean it's likely. If you're foolish enough you can get almost anything to kill you. Not saying towballs are the best option but the danger is way overstated in my opinion.

@wakeupamerica4610 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for doing this vid!!! Ive had a few heated "discussions" about this very subject.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@josephcastro5894 2 жыл бұрын

Answered alot of my questions. Thanks!

@MadMatt4WD 2 жыл бұрын

I’m glad to help.

@RobinBanerjee 4 жыл бұрын

I've had a similar experience pulling out a stuck Xterra with my Tacoma, and looping over the ball hitch. Ball didn't fail, but loop somehow slipped off, and flew back straight through the rear window of the Xtrerra! I've now gone and bought some soft shackles and a hitch mount tow shackle!

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Glad you didn't get hurt.

@asdasd-ni8eg 3 жыл бұрын

This guy has it all sorted in his text book recovery As mentioned the tassie hitch was rotten due to lack of care just because someone got killed when a bus hit them crossing the road doesn't mean you stop crossing the road.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

So that justifies using the wrong tool for the job?

@michaelanthony4270 4 жыл бұрын

Just remember 1 thing Mad Matt says "never use your balls" 🤣👍🏼

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

😂

@TowieHD 3 жыл бұрын

If it was meant to be a recovery bar, it wouldn't be named a tow bar. Fantastic video mate, thanks you. Subscribed.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Yep and thanks for the Sub.

@JoeHynes284 4 жыл бұрын

this is effing crazy! thanks for the video! I haven't done this but I may very well have, not now

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

glad to help :)

@seanworkman431 4 жыл бұрын

Finally an explanation of sorts. You are making a valid point to a guy who has watched cranes fall from the sky. Things fail if not maintained. As a seafarer I can make the point that when towing at sea you should never allow the tow line to become taught. I have used my tow hitch for recovery but put a twist over the hitch so the ball is not taking the full load. If you are planing to tow a trailer when was the last time you checked your hitch?

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks and some excellent points

@olliehopnoodle4628 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Matt, yes I had a front tow ball on a bumper and I just needed a small tug off a flat spot to get out of the way on a busy trail when my jeep died. I had a guy freak out on me that you never use the ball. There are a few times that it is okay. If it's a simple tug where there is barely any load on it then you can go ahead and do it. In my case the tow ball was attached to the front bumper, the previous owner would use it to position an RV. But if it's in a receiver, then just pull the ball assembly and put the strap trough the pin.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent comment

@CaseysOffRoadRecovery 4 жыл бұрын

Yup let common sense prevail. It's not as black and white as everyone claims.

@olliehopnoodle4628 4 жыл бұрын

@@CaseysOffRoadRecovery But you could also argue that if you never use it, you won't have a problem. ;)

@neutronstorm 3 жыл бұрын

Rewatched this video and I really appreciate this a lot more after reading the corinors reports on the deaths. I don't think that it can be stressed enough that we harp on about this because it has been shown again and again to be a leading cause of deaths during recoveries. From what I remember, the poor person that died when the weld failed was nearly 100m away!

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

I'm consistently amazed at those who defend this dangerous practice all to save a simple device change.

@neutronstorm 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD I get sick of the common sense crew. "there shouldn't be any rules because everybody should just use common sense". Unfortunately, when corrinors reports keep coming in with the same cause of death, something needs to be done to educate the common sense crew.

@Mt24855 3 ай бұрын

Dam 3 years ago and was only a year ago those two incidents happened, you called it 😮

@KirtH27 4 жыл бұрын

Huh. Learned lots of new stuff! I won't be using my receiver with a bow shackle!

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Great glad to help

@fastst1 4 жыл бұрын

I won't ask about dropping a bow shackle into a pintle ring hitch :) Would love to try some 4 wheelin down there but my F550 heads for the earth's core when the ground gets soft no matter what.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

I'll bet it does.

@vr96np 3 жыл бұрын

Really appriciate your concern for safety. From a technical point of view it is not so much about single or double shear. It is about shear surface and shear strength of te material. I think that the real danger is the use of kinetic rpoes. They will introduce verry high peak loads on the recovery points. This is especially true if the vehicle doing the recovery gets some speed before the kinetic rope tightens. Land Rover recons that loads in excess of 13 metric tons may occurre in some of the recovery procedures.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks.

@fahadalwheibi760 4 жыл бұрын

Very logical words, thanks for sharing this important information with us

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks and welcome

@seanworkman431 4 жыл бұрын

Just to add to a previous comment I made. I drive a 1997 Subaru Forester and it has an old style tongue hitch which I recently removed because it dragged in the parking space of my new location. When I removed it , although the bolts were in reasonable condition the split /spring washers had failed. Just an example of why we should all maintain our machinery. Eat well you all.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Great point

@vort3xZA Жыл бұрын

Good video 👍

@kingstonsean 4 жыл бұрын

Looking forward to next week with Matt from Utah.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Yeah yeah

@sholbura 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the video. Would be nice to see a video showing how to properly hook up both tow and recover ropes from beginning to end. Maybe there are other videos out there that show that. Will check…

@MadMatt4WD 2 жыл бұрын

There’s many videos showing that

@Shebasandfleacornelius3rd 4 жыл бұрын

Always pulled by hitch. Crazy how that never crossed my mind. Wont be doing that shit anymore lol

@codywohlers2059 4 жыл бұрын

But it doesn't break when you tow a 10,000kg trailer and hit the brakes... The real lesson is don't stand in the danger zone when doing recovery.

@JimBob-vb8oz 4 жыл бұрын

@@codywohlers2059 You're not shock loading a 10,000kg trailer like you do in a snatch recovery.

@codywohlers2059 4 жыл бұрын

@@JimBob-vb8oz I think you are

@JimBob-vb8oz 4 жыл бұрын

@@codywohlers2059 If you are then you're rough on your gear.

@billygauthier 3 жыл бұрын

Just had this accident

@MustangsTrainsMowers 3 жыл бұрын

In the US a company was selling what I think was called Convert a Ball which was a shaft sticking up in which you could slip down on it a 1-7/8” ball or 2” ball. Well several of them failed, and the company was sued and I think that they were recalled too?

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Interesting.

@adolfoabhurtadoc6106 4 жыл бұрын

Mr Matt, thank you for this video! I wil learn this lesson for sure! In my case, that I have a smal pickup in which we use the rear bumper as a hitch (it´s rated for 3500 pounds). I don´t go off road with it, but I pull a lot with this truck; mainly cutting trees and cleaning gardens. In some points, we use the truck as a tractor, but untill now using the hitch ball as the anchor point. Would you sugest to use a shackle instead? I know you talk about why it is not good in recovery situations, but in this case the shackle will atach to the bumper stamp sheet metall instead of a hitch plate. Thank you!

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Why not just get a hitch receiver like I show in the video and make sure you're safe. As I say the metal plates are also known to fail. If you use the code madmatt you can get a discount on the products linked in the discription.

@KirtH27 4 жыл бұрын

You should mention about bow shackles not to use the ones with pin and clevis pin, they will bend the bow shackle. WHere the screw in pin type will help keep the bow shackle from bending. We were not allowed to use the pin and clevis pin type of bow shackles at work for this reason.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Great point

@dustyfarmer 4 жыл бұрын

Recovery points are usually for more suspect and un-rated when it comes to shock loadings. Ronny Dahl had to partially cut the towball shanks to get the towballs to fail. Effective dampeners on the ends of the strap go a long way to dissipate energy but you can remove the tow tongue, poke the snatch loop into the receiver & put the pin through it rather than over the tow ball.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Ronnie didn't cut the first tow ball as shown in this video. My thoughts on the pin. madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

@dustyfarmer 4 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Ronnie's head was the only thing that came close to going through the windscreen in the first test. You can also get on eBay an 8 tonne rated pintle hook/50mm towball tongue that has the top arm of the pintle hook locked over the top of the tow ball. Factor 55 is nice stuff but I think it got its name because it costs more by a factor of 55.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

@@dustyfarmer Yes F55 is not cheap. But it's very good gear and many who can afford it are appreciating the quality. Of course, there are many other suitable options.

@bobpfaff2258 Жыл бұрын

I bought a secondhand 4X4 a few years ago with a tow bar. I replaced the tow ball and connector simply because I didn't know what work it had done. Not that I recover from the tow bar but I do pull a horse float and want to know everything is first rate. The old but true saying applies - a chain s only as strong as it's weakest link.

@bugman655 4 жыл бұрын

this is interesting.. i have never seen or heard anyone breaking a ball off must be cheap balls. ive seen hitches break or frame points where hitch bolts to fail cause of improper mounting or cheap bolts. ive always used good quality 2in balls with large shanks mounted to good quality receivers and well mounted hitches and never had failures. but ive never just sliped the rope, chain, strap or what ever the case may over the top of the ball its always been around the ball, hitch and nut of ball. but this does make one think better about their situation and use proper equipment cause you never can tell. good video and information.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@doneB830 4 жыл бұрын

They got this new metal called chinesium

@charvakkarpe 3 жыл бұрын

Somebody should have told Cannondale about single shear and double shear when they came out with their "Lefty" fork.

@j.e.honiball1327 3 жыл бұрын

Those things are designed for the purpose. Those lefties are stiffer than most normal bicycle forks

@kenweberg959 4 жыл бұрын

Mad Matt thats why Matt at winder towing uses the 3 ball assembly. Makes sense

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

next week we have @matts offroad recovery explain that. This video is to lay a platform for Matts video.

@kenweberg959 4 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Ya Matt have caught a couple videos you guys did togeather. Good stuff

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Thans Ken :)

@RockmanDash 4 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Hill towing just uses one tow ball and a kientec rope.

@bobvedder2451 3 жыл бұрын

I used a pintel hitch to recover a mates truck, the hitch was rated at 12 tons, it worked fine.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

That’s acceptable.

@russellraspier4859 4 жыл бұрын

The triball hitch that Matt from Winder uses is 3 balls welded to a tube not bolted like a single ball. Also the recovery rope he uses doesn't "hit" as hard as a flat strap or chain. Chain is terrible for snatch type recoveries and will often damage mounting points due to having no "give" when loaded by a "hit".

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

This video is a precursor to a video where Matt explains his use of the triball.

@tomconroy8367 4 жыл бұрын

Easiest solution in an emergency is to remove the hitch, put the loop of your strap into the receiver and reinstall the pin.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

This is my thoughts on that. madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

@BenMitro 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD The link gives a very good and balanced opinion with substantial justification. I like it!

@TheOldaz1 3 жыл бұрын

If you must use the towball you can wrap the end of the strap under then around the towbar and hook the loop over the towball. If the towball should by some fluke break, it will be propelled a small amount into the rear of the tow vehicle. A modern 3500kg rated 50mm towball has a shear strength well over the usual snatch strap rating. This is far stronger than using the hitch pin, because using the hitch pin this way it becomes a single shear point and is already way under towball shear strength.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

And yet the Australian government has a mandatory standard that must be on all snatch straps sold in Australia that says do not use a tow ball. Now we all know governments don't do anything they don't have to. www.productsafety.gov.au/standards/recovery-straps-for-motor-vehicles#:~:text=its%20minimum%20breaking%20strength%2C%20expressed,used%20in%20the%20recovery%20process

@waylonmccrae3546 4 жыл бұрын

That's why you invest the money , and buy a welded Tri-Ball hitch !! Put a Clove hitch weave around all 3 and you can yank the Earth off its axis !! 👊😎

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

or use a device designed for the job rather than something that can be used for the job.

@evictioncarpentry2628 4 жыл бұрын

I think it depends on your rope. Something like a Ridgid non-stretching strap puts all the force right onto those shear points but those kinetic straps stretch and build energy in the rope instead of "shocking" the anchor points. Having said that, I've never seen a hitch ball go flying, but I've seen some guys bend the hitch into a banana and the strap came flying off the ball (no shackles or anything) so it wasn't a big deal but I've always told people it was a stupid idea and go get a proper recovery system.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

nice points

@g42wilson Жыл бұрын

I'm delighted to see you going through the details of the safety parameters involved in a pull, but I have to say, I think you missed the most critical thing: the difference between the load applied to the attachment point is orders of magnitude higher if you are pulling with a chain rather than a kinetic recovery rope or strap and you don't snug it up before starting the pull. Shock loading breaks things. Any time a pull is being done is an engineering exercise: there is a series of connections and each one must be within the safe Working Load Limit (WLL) NOT the Minimum Breaking Strength (MBS) of each of those connections. For example, not all tow balls are created equal. The ball on my truck is rated for 40,000 lbs/18,000 Kg and the hitch is stronger than that (I move house trailers). The tow ball used to pull a small utility trailer would commonly be rated for 10% of that, and wouldn't be nearly as strong as typical recovery equipment, and therefore not safe to pull from. Finally, Inspect your equipment! If it's rusty or frayed or worn or cracked, retire it before it breaks!

@MadMatt4WD Жыл бұрын

You make some good points. But your towballs are rated to tow not recover so bare that in mind. As you indicate a towing load is vastly different to a kinetic recovery load.

@pincus321 4 жыл бұрын

The problem is the towball hitch you are using is a two tonne limit. The potential for a tow is in excess of two tons. The Jerk component is way higher, you need to highlight this point. The ball breaking is caused by not being tightened properly or has been badly abused. it is way stronger than you are suggesting, human error is probably the primary failure in most cases. However I think you make a good point these things can be avoided

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Interesting points.

@timmorris3056 3 жыл бұрын

We just go to harbor freight tools, buy the Triple Ball hitch with solid square tube $35. We put the tow rope loop over all 3 balls and use a grade 8 bolt for the pin rather than the soft metal standard hitch pin.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

If I know what people do but there’s still a better tool for the job than that.

@glennkiller3195 3 жыл бұрын

I actually never thought about Corrosion from the Inside of the Tow Bar. I've seen Tow Balls Snap. I even pressed one(Same load as attaching a Strap or Chain) to prove a point when I was younger. This TOP Quality Tow Ball snapped at about 4000kg. I was trying to prove to a mate, that when the Snatch Strap loads up & Retracts it will exert massive energy well above 3.5t that a Average Tow Ball is SWL Rated.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

That’s interesting. Have you watched Ronnie dahls videos on tow balls.

@glennkiller3195 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD I haven't yet. I'll make time to watch it

@blondeguy08 3 жыл бұрын

Actually bow shackles are a major issue due quality concerns. We had to put in place policies on the metallurgy and the origins of these things. Also, they don’t do well with with shock loads.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Totally agree.

@DellCvz 4 жыл бұрын

I've pulled a 12ton truck 15 miles over hills. My tow ball seems really good.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

A tow is rather different to what we're referring to which is a kinetic energy recovery.

@catchawakeup6411 4 жыл бұрын

Not really the same thing mate, towing vs recovery.

@bikingfordays6951 4 жыл бұрын

Not the same thing but I have a 1/4 tone if I’m a little hung up I’ll use the hitch only if I’m buried would I consider something else

@texashankpalmer876 3 жыл бұрын

Those mounting points on the front of vehicles are not designed for shipping and transport, they were designed for recovery. Just take a look at your owner's manual.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

on some they are but not on my Toyotas, when they are used in big recovery they have been known to fail

@Lucas12v 3 жыл бұрын

That Ronnie D video you linked seems to show how strong tow balls are. Not how weak they are. He had to act like a complete idiot to break them. Anyone that clueless would find another way to get hurt anyway. Are they the best option no, is it possible to break them, yes, is the danger blown way out of proportion, definitely. I don't generally use them for recoveries but the many times i have used them along with some common sense, it's been fine. I have no fear of using them in the future in some but not all situations.

@scottchamberlain7338 Жыл бұрын

The main point of all this, don't place anyone in the line or near the line of the tow rope/chain/wire. Period. Didn't we learn this in the 60's?

@MadMatt4WD Жыл бұрын

We seem to keep having to learn it. Saying that we still have two drivers in the picture so we still have a problem to mange.

@teamidris 4 жыл бұрын

Let’s comment before I watch it. We use tow balls a lot where they face inward and are welded on top of a thick plate. I use 5 ton hooks welded in. Unless your chassis is cross braced over standard, always use a bridle (same for sub frames). Be super careful if you are hooked up on a rock or stump. Let’s watch :o)

@teamidris 4 жыл бұрын

I’m a master engineer and that is spot on. But, don’t even chance that towbar, because the whole assembly decapitates a human with ease. Get your truck down the off road shop and have two proper tow points on the front and two on the back. ( Ideally hooks so you have no shackles at all ) You need to be sure in your mind that if you strapped your first born into your truck that you could tie a helicopter to them and fly them round for a bit. (Get side hooks as well if you can)

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Nice play. Comment first and then see how ya go. Love ya work and thanks for the support.

@teamidris 4 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Thanks. And thanks for the vid. If you are prepared it is way easier to do tasks without taking risks (maybe you never need side hooks, but when you do, the risk strapping to something you shouldn’t in a blind panic goes away :)

@jasonnelson8788 4 жыл бұрын

What you can do with your tow ball is directly tied to it's rating. But in the case of recovery you do not want your ball to be anywhere near the weakest link. On the other hand you could have a sold hitch and ball rated for 20,000lb. Unlikely that is what most people would have on their small 4x4 though.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

I think we agree.

@user-hg9uy1nc9h 9 ай бұрын

Unfortunately the weak link is actually the 9/16 pin that's in double sheer connecting the tongue to the towbar. It will fail before the towball which although in single sheer is more than double the cross sectional area of two 9/16 pins.

@MadMatt4WD 8 ай бұрын

Well except it doesn’t seem to be the part that we see fail.

@jackar1ah 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Matt, Its just occurred to me that you potentially have the same problem if you try and snatch recover a vehicle and trailer combination backwards using the recovery point on the back of the trailer. About the only difference I can see is that when either the towball or part of the hitch fails as you describe, it is less likely to become a projectile as it will hopefully stay locked onto the coupling on the trailer (not a risk I'm willing to take though)....

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

You raise an excellent point.

@RealCadde 4 жыл бұрын

There's another reason you don't recover from a trailer though... The trailer's chassis isn't at all suitable to do a recovery from. You are quite likely to destroy the trailer if the towball doesn't come off. Sure, there are probably exceptions out there but that's just what they are... Exceptions.

@gingie5246 4 жыл бұрын

I only use a tow ball when I am not yanking someone out like in a ditch where you can pull someone out slowly.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

So are you saying in a low load situation?

@gingie5246 4 жыл бұрын

No I pulled out a smaller size camper with my tow ball

@davegiles2120 3 жыл бұрын

Still haven't seen anyone mention just using the pin on the receiver as a tow point. I was taught that it was much safer than using the tow ball. I'd like to see what sort of forces would be needed for the receiver pin to fail when directly connected to a snatch strap.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

I’ve done videos about that over the years. If you go to the blogs on the website you’ll see my detailed thoughts. Basically it’s ok imo as a last resort.

@davidcarrico3385 2 жыл бұрын

Great video. So my Jeep Wrangler JLU has a rear tow hook on the driver side rear. I also bought a factor 55 hitch mount recovery point. My thinking is the center pull should be better than the off-center pull of the hook, so I would use the factor 55 in a recovery situation(all else being equal). After seeing your video, now I am questioning my thinking. Which do you think would be better to use in a basic rear recovery situation with a JLU? Thx.

@MadMatt4WD 2 жыл бұрын

If you’ve got the Factor55 recover that’s the best solution. Well done.

@jeTROGIBBS Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video.... Does this apply to fixed tow balls?

@MadMatt4WD Жыл бұрын

Never have a tow ball or hitch in a recovery.

@sydneymowerandautomotivece4319 4 жыл бұрын

Yes Ronny Dahl's video is a good example of what can happen. Shame he had to falsify the breakages. As for using a hitch receiver or the pin, isn't minimising projectiles the name of the game ? As doesn't the recovery hitch in the hitch then become a shear in itself ? Glad to see someone telling the truth about steel bow shackles.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

What do you mean falsified the results??? I think the double shear ensures a strong attachment designed with good engineering principals that won’t fail with the loads we are dealing with.

@sydneymowerandautomotivece4319 4 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Just that after 8? Attempts a used ball didn't break and had to cut them to break. But it does show how tuff a jeep is. Totally agree with the double shear. Just using some real life experiences with metal/bolts/pins in the hitch receiver scenario from working with machinery and mechanicals. Over time creates stress points and we know how well people inspect the equipment. About 1 in 10 vehicles I service, the tow ball is loose and been used to the point where the threads are worn and worn the tongue to the point it needs replacing.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

@Sydney Mower And Automotive Centre Excellent points. The video I reference shows that hit number 8 busts the ball off. From what I saw it hadn't been cut or tampered with. Of course there could be camera magic going on but having met Ronny a couple of times he doesn't strike me as a guy who would falsify this testing.

@bjones5240 4 жыл бұрын

great to see some engineering concepts being applied to 4wding situations such as Shear Force, sum of forces etc... Sick of listening to bogans! Thanks Matt.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

i can but try

@bjones5240 4 жыл бұрын

MadMatt 4WD As a mechanical Engineer myself, I just shake my head at soo many things I see and read nowadays. Keep up the great work. Many people genuinely appreciate it.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Brent, I really appreciate you saying this. It can be a tough gig. I have a few people who I bounce ideas off as [part of my prep.

@TruBluOffroad 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD it's one thing to sound like you know what you're talking about, or have a piece of paper that say's you know what your talking about, but it's clearly a totally different thing to actually know, understand and back up what you say.

@l337pwnage 4 жыл бұрын

Mass has a considerable effect on energy, or guns wouldn't use different sized bullets. You could launch that cloth shackle out of an Abram's cannon and you won't penetrate any armor with it, or, in all likelihood, ever reach a target.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Correct but if you launch it at a higher enough speed it'll go through steel or disintegrate. If an item is lighter it just needs to travel faster to do the same damage as a heavier item travelling slower.

@KirtH27 4 жыл бұрын

Question for yah. How about the pin? Would a grade 8 5/8" be better than the standard pin?

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

One would think so. But what are the standard quality pins made off? I don't know to be honest. As I say in the video I would still prefer to use the hitch reciver.

@fastst1 4 жыл бұрын

Well so here's the issue, the pin has a similar strength and material as the rest of the hitch, hot rolled carbon steel. If you added a grade 8 pin and solid bar insert, eventually the bolt will slice through the outer receiver, fracturing it. 13,000 single shear of a grade 2 pin, 26k double. That's a doozey of a pull. Likely close to the breaking of the hitch itself.

@josephsolomito4703 3 жыл бұрын

Great video Matt, lots of important information. I hate to be "that guy" but I do want to point out one error. You said that the soft shackle and the bow shackle have the same amount of potential energy. What you are describing was kinetic energy not potential energy and it is not the same in the two pieces of equipment. The formula for calculating kinetic energy is ½ mass times velocity squared. The velocity is going to be very close however the mass of the two objects is radically different. The amount of kinetic energy in the bow shackle is going to be significantly higher than in the soft shackle.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment. Because I’m no physicist I actually got this video checked prior to it being released. I’m confident it’s correct but I’ll get them to read your comment and respond if appropriate.

@smiley3303 2 жыл бұрын

I saw a guy come into our local shop with a B&W style rated for 10000 pounds I think it was. It was set on the “big” ball. 2 5/16 he said he was trying to pull someone out and it broke right off. I had heard about this issue before and told him it ain’t made for winching out you need a D shackle type for that use. He was surprised and had not heard that before. I think people commonly make this mistake as we see the rating and think it is plenty. I use expensive hitch balls such a as the Shocker so I don’t even want to use those when I have a $30 option that is safe.

@MadMatt4WD 2 жыл бұрын

Well said

@hooligantimes9132 4 жыл бұрын

Have you reviewed the rear recovery hooks on the Gladiator and proper use?

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

no i haven't

@Bobodeman 4 жыл бұрын

Would love to travel with you sometime after this virus is gone. Getting my 4by fixed soon

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

awesome

@Bobodeman 4 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD getting a transfer case and gear box with 200,000 km less than mine and im also having problems with my current gear box from not wanting to go into some gears sometimes to 4L not working

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

@@Bobodeman, Of course, I have no idea what your driving. :)

@Bobodeman 4 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD 2000 mk triton manual. If you check my channel i have 2 videos of it. Both where basic dirt driving by the 2nd was more complex. Im also located NSW about an hour or 2 from Albury. Not going to state where I live for safety reason

@franka8318 3 жыл бұрын

Really appreciate this video. Just got a 4x4 two weeks ago. Now if somebody's in need of a recovery I won't just say "No" because I know nothing about it (or worse, "Yes" despite knowing nothing about it). Atleast now I know what equipment I need and when to use it.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Maybe watch a few more of my videos as well.

@patrickstaples7314 4 жыл бұрын

What’s your thoughts on just using the snatch strap and the pin (in case you don’t have the recovery receiver)? (I do have the proper receiver hitch) but just throwing another scenario out there.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

My thoughts madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

@plymouthduster2252 4 жыл бұрын

I have a question for you Mad Matt. I understand that using a ball mount like you showed in the video is dangerous. But I recently used a tri ball hitch mount with a hook on it to pull down a dead tree in my yard. Could that be just as dangerous using a ball mount that has more than 1 hitch on it or it any safer?

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Watch this. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gMmmZdqqmrivlX0.html

@dannyh9010 Жыл бұрын

Newbie question here: is there just a bow shackle that is wide enough to use the bow shackle straddling the outside of the receiver and able to put the bow shackle pin through both of the hitch pin holes in the receiver?

@MadMatt4WD Жыл бұрын

Hey mate. No there’s not but that would not be a very strong design imo.

@SuperAWaC 3 жыл бұрын

A more precise way to put it wouldn't be to say that the double shear is *stronger* because it isn't, what it is, is the force being divided between the two shear points, so nominally half the force is applied over a single shear. This is important because if things aren't set up correctly, or in sub-optimal situations, such as if one hole is worn out larger than the other, it can go back to acting like a single shear joint.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Yes strictly speaking yes but for the purpose of this exercise is it important to communicate that to the audience ?

@SuperAWaC 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Maybe. I feel like it's reasonable to say something like "a double shear splits the force between each shear, so each shear point takes half the force of a single shear"

@jdlambert1 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info! I agree with your entire video presentation. However, That’s a crap tow ball which in all honesty most people own. If you use a solid steel tri ball your vehicle hitch or tow strap (snachy, recovery rope) will fail first.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

The triball isn’t going to fail but the right tool for the job is always best.

@iffykidmn8170 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD If as you stated the triball isn't going to fail why isn't it the best tool for the job, Multi functional would make it the best tool no?

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Because it's not designed for this job. It's like using a pair of multigrips to undo a bolt. Yes they do it but not as well as a spanner.

@robhill5169 3 жыл бұрын

hi matt in the UK our tow balls are differant than yours and our land rover club has banned the use of kinnetik tow ropes on our land rover trials

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Yes I've seen your design and thats a good thing.

@harveysmith100 3 жыл бұрын

Is the standard staple that is bolted with four bolts to the rear crossmember on the 70 series OK for recovery, also is location OK for fitting a tow bar? Whilst I am asking about the 70 series, the standard shackle points at the front, are they tie downs or can you recover with them?

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t use the factory points for anything other than light recovery. Fit a pintle hook to the 4 chassis bolts at the rear.

@harveysmith100 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Thanks for the advice

@chrisbeatty743 4 жыл бұрын

This video is very applicable if you are using equipment rated for jeeps. Your hitch ball and hitch are rated for a maximum of 10k lbs (that's generous. You are using a class 3 hitch and a maximum of 1" ball shank.) You should use a forged hitch that Is a solid piece of metal. You shouldn't use that hitch and ball for the same reason you shouldn't use a 10k static strap for recovery

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Correct

@chrisbeatty743 4 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD I should state that I do not drive a small offroad vehicle. I drive a heavy duty diesel truck. My hitch receiver is rated at 20k lbs and is mounted to my chassis with 3-4" welds and 3 1/2" diameter bolts on each side. My chassis is reinforced for towing and is incredibly strong. Most offroad vehicles do not have a hitch receiver anywhere near that strong and honestly should not pull on it as it can bend their chassis. If you are having to yank on a stuck vehicle, it would be best to use something that is directly inline with either side of the frame of your chassis because as you said, force travels in a straight line. I should also state that in most situations, there are safer options than using a hitch and ball. Using a d-ring or even a pintle hook is safer because it does not allow the strap to come off in any direction. The slightest bit of slack and a bump can cause that strap to move from the shaft of the ball and can become dangerous if the strap slips off. If you have a truck that is strong enough to pull most vehicles including 18 wheelers out of the mud without having to yank on them, the hitch is fine. You just have to use the right tool for the job and some common sense. If you have to back up and yank on a vehicle, an attachment point that keeps the strap attached is obviously the right choice. If you just have to pull forward and can keep tension on the strap and you have a strong enough hitch, you can use that.

@chrisbeatty743 4 жыл бұрын

Last point: when dealing with force, most people know the equation Force=mass*acceleration. This equation is really only theoretical because it doesnt contain all of the information. The real equation is the impulse equation. Impulse is the amount of force applied over time which is what you will feel when pulling someone out. When you just pull on someone, you are applying force over a long period of time until you reach your maximum force. If it takes too long to reach the maximum force, you will lose traction and not move anywhere. To combat this, you increase your velocity at the time of impact and by doing so, you reduce the time by a significant number. If you reduce the impact time by too much, you will begin damaging your vehicle because nothing on a car is designed for that sort of force without taking damage to protect the occupants. To give you some random numbers as an example, let's say you are 100 kg and your acceleration is 1 m/s^2 and your impact time is .5 seconds. You are exerting 200 newton's of force. If you back up and accelerate at 2 m/s^2 and reduce your impact time to .1 seconds, you are exerting 2000 newton's of force. If you use that same principle with the weight of cars, it will show you just how dangerous recovery can be If you don't know what you are doing or have the right tools.

@strugls8454 3 жыл бұрын

Just an FYI bow shackles like that are rate to fail at a ratio of 6 to 1 so that particular shackle should fail at 28 tons.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Yes but that's the safety factor not the WLL

@samc3227 2 жыл бұрын

take the time do it right and safe save a life

@MadMatt4WD 2 жыл бұрын

Yep

@andrewlangridge90 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the good vid Matt. Any thoughts on why a tow ball can tow a trailer thats 15,000 plus pounds no problem? a truck that needs to be recovered is far less than half the weight of most trailer towed. It holds all this fine and never breaks while towing. How is recovering different from daily towing especially up and down high mountain passes in Canada? Thanks

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Sure. The amount of traction required to move 15000 lbs is not 15000 lbs. you can push a car but you can’t lift one. Also we’re factoring for fatigue over time.

@timh1187 3 жыл бұрын

Its because he doesnt know what he is talking about. In canada with full sized trucks your towing ball should be 1 1/4. Think its rated for 30,000 pds. Your slings or chains will break long before the ball will shear. I've pulled bumpers off trucks ripped tow hooks from frames. Never broken a ball.

@DiHandley 4 жыл бұрын

There is something that you missed. What about the front? Because I don’t have a bull bar or a winch I am more likely to be pulled out of a situation from the front than the back. I don’t have a front bar, but all of the recovery points I have seen for the front require a bull bar to be fitted first. What should I do??

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

I didn't miss it per-say. I can only cover off so much info in each video or they would be way too long. In your situation you should speak with your local 4wd accessories supplier or research whats available for your vehicle.

@jeepster0934 2 жыл бұрын

How about a pintle style hitch with ball with the pintle latch on top that closes down?

@MadMatt4WD 2 жыл бұрын

A std pintle yes but not with the screw in ball.

@jeepster0934 2 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD So even with 2 5/16" ball that has huge stud for retention?....and latch against top of it?hmmm

@destinhook3826 3 жыл бұрын

i was hoping you would mention the different ball sizes since they are rating for drastically different weight. the 1” 7/8 ball is only rated for 2000 pounds and 200 pounds tongue weight no wonder it would snap. if you size it up to the 2” 5/8 ball, it would be rated for up to 10000+ pounds and 1000 pounds tongue weight. i feel like it would handle recoveries a lot better.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah or just use the correct tool and not have the concern.

@destinhook3826 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD i very very rarely off road with my truck but it does tow a lot. that’s where my question arose.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Your better of taking the hitch out and fitting the strap through the hitch pin then.

@Jake_Hynds Жыл бұрын

I feel the easiest option is take the ball and the sleeve out of the receiver and put the end of the recovery rope into the receiver and put the pin through the loop in the recovery rope.! easy and do not need any special tools.

@MadMatt4WD Жыл бұрын

Watch my latest video about this

@Jake_Hynds Жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD no I will not, better to hook up like that then have a ball hitch kill someone

@rodpayten1891 Жыл бұрын

I want to see an actual broken tow ball. I don't believe you are right. In my 50 years of towing everything from trucks to tractors and I have NEVER seen a broken towbar.

@MadMatt4WD Жыл бұрын

Rod your sample size is tiny. But Ryan is dead as one example from last year. Well worth reading the comments too as you’ll see quite a number of testimonies in there. 4X4 Recovery DEATH || My Reaction and thoughts! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aNh4qbSq0LTYYoE.html

@jamesperez3765 4 жыл бұрын

I've seen matt from matt's offroad recovery use a triple tow ball setup with his yankum ropes multiple times, and he seems like an experienced guy that knows what he's doing. What are your thoughts on that?

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

Next weeks video is Matt explaining it. Personally I think he could just use a proper hitch receiver.

@bennett53446 4 жыл бұрын

If you watch how he connects the rope to that receiver it diverts the energy into multiple points and could possibly be stronger than a tow shackle, but I’m still with Madmatt’s set up because there is no way that the snatch rope can slip off or get miss aligned during the pull.

@Dan-re7go 3 жыл бұрын

Personally I think a 5 star hotel and a swim up bar is better.

@Pro1er 2 ай бұрын

Have you seen the tri-balls with a hook welded on them?

@MadMatt4WD 2 ай бұрын

Yes. Not designed for kinetic recovery although in an emergency they can be used without connecting to the tow balls directly.

@shaneregan2955 4 жыл бұрын

Most new towbars state "For trailer towing only" on their compliance plates these days. I wonder how you go legally recovering from one of the bars? I think it's the manufacturer of the bar covering themselves in the event of a bar failure.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

I think you're right. "fit for purpose"

@callum3261 3 жыл бұрын

I'm from the UK and have a Nissan Navara D22 it has a Fixed Swan neck tow hitch (I don't know if you have them in Australia) But was wondering if anyone has any info on whether it would be suitable for recovery because it is one solid piece of metal. Instead of the ball is shown in the video which is welded. And I can not find any type of recovery receiver that fits swan neck hitches.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Personally I wouldn’t use it for a kinetic recovery. A tow recovery would be ok if you HAD too. Use the right tool for the job.

@callum3261 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD I was also wondering if you don't have a hitch reviser would it be ok to loop a strap around the hitch itself because it's a solid connection?

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

@@callum3261 there’s a thing in recoveries where if it works it’s fine. That sounds like it goes against everything I say. The idea being every recovery is different and will require a different approach. People like things to be black and white most recoveries have lots of grey in them. So considering the dangers and such you then make a considered plan that is as safe as you can make it for the situation you’re in. Part of the process if you know you will be performing recoveries is to prepare the vehicle as best you can. There can be lots challenges at that point with the modern vehicle. So you decide whether you hook on that way. If you do I suggest you keep the recovery energy as low as you can.

@Gizmo42Rodeo 4 жыл бұрын

You missed one option that I wish you would have included. If no D ring hitch is available, feed the strap into the receiver and put the pin through it. Not as strong as the D ring but much safer than the tow hitch.

@donhappel9928 4 жыл бұрын

Agreed, though there are some negatives to that as well. For example, any sort of side-loading will put the strap against a hard edge which has the potential to cut/damage it. But if my choice is this or a tow ball, this wins every time.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

My thoughts. madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

@donhappel9928 4 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD I should have read some of the other comments where you posted this - pretty much mirrors my own thoughts.

@joblessalex 2 жыл бұрын

In Hardcore scenarios, yeah. Wouldn't trust it. But you also have to think that the bolt on a tow ball is a million times thicker than the double shear pin that goes through to hold it in.... You'd need massive force to even break it and if you did, that pin might break before the ball given the right loading. Therefore you shouldn't use the receiver at all?

@MadMatt4WD 2 жыл бұрын

That last sentence is where it’s at

@samjohnson9894 4 жыл бұрын

In the US, the tow-ball recovery is called a gene-pool thinner. We let it happen so the rest of us can live in peace.

@MadMatt4WD 4 жыл бұрын

WOW so long as it gets the right person ay?

@bruceaugustine6486 Жыл бұрын

A 40.000lb. Pintal hitch is that you should use, usually about $110.00.

@MadMatt4WD Жыл бұрын

A pintle hook is a reasonable tool as well

@bruceaugustine6486 Жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD It is faster to connect and disconnect from and a solid connection welded to the rear of the vehicle bumper when a Hd Steal bumper is installed.

@tbjtbj4786 3 жыл бұрын

I can see the possible dangers. And I don't do that much off roading or heavy farm work anymore. But I have never seen one giveaway. Seen them used thousands of times off road. And I have no idea how many on farms. Even had a d7 dozer pull out a 125 hp 4x4 international with a peanut wagon ( loaded) with the tractor on the fram. Most everyone around used them we just got all the by standards to move off and out of the way.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

So by the fact you remove people it’s a fair indication you recognise the dangers. I fail to see why defending this is even a thing when it’s so easy to do it safer and not run the risk at all. I’ve never said it’s happening every time a tow ball is used but it does happen. Read a few comments up and there’s a guy in hospital from a tow ball hitting him.

@tbjtbj4786 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD#1 I would move people out of the way doing any kind of pulling. More worried about a chain breaking than the ball. And on the farm what ever was quicker and using the stuff you had to get the job done. Doing dangerous stuff on the farm kinda normal down here or was for years. You did what you needed to get the job done is it the best way probably not is it what we done yes. I went and watched the video from the other guy. The pull that he was doing seems kinda suspect. And then cutting the balls shank not good. If you pull by the axle or frame. If you cut either in what 1/4 - 1/2 into there going to brake to. Like I said I don't do much of either anymore but I never saw one fail. And I used them on heavy equipment that puts way more stress on them than and normal truck.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

I get the farm thing I grew up on one. But knowing what I know today I’d certainly take the time to do things safer.

@victorb145 3 жыл бұрын

Reminds me of when I was trying to get my boat and trailer to the truck. I couldn't back the truck all the way up to the trailer so I took the cable from the winch that's just designed to pull the boat onto the trailer and attach that to my bumper. And was using it to pull the boat and the trailer to the truck. So I tell the person helping me to stand clear of the cable because one I'm asking it to do something that wasn't designed to do and 2 if it failed that quarter inch cable flying around was going to do its best to cut her in half if it bit her. Do you think she would get out of its range?

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah right. Wouldn't believe you ay.

@victorb145 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Nope luckily despite three or four individual strands it held. I think ill replace it with one a little bigger. Easier then finding a new place for the boat.

@MadMatt4WD 3 жыл бұрын

We have a design that has a strap like seat belt on it. Much better IMO

@victorb145 3 жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD okay I'm a little confused. A design for a winch? But whatever it is if it makes my life easier I'm interested in it.

@SeriousSchitt Жыл бұрын

I can’t believe people took a swipe at you for using a tree as an anchor point. A tree’s a chunk of firewood, it’s not like it’s some sort of life form that feels pain or anything!

@MadMatt4WD Жыл бұрын

Lol I know right. And the tree years later was just fine.

@SeriousSchitt Жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Exactly.