Thanks for sharing, I was aware about this but I'm not sure what this means in practice. You can't install drivers at all - or only the AGP features are disabled and you don't get AGP texturing & co but the card still works as a PCI card. (where is technically possible)

why would you use AGP video on Win 10 anyway?

@@mirific87 Because tested out when I had spare hardware stuff. It was just a fun experiment, when I had a free time on the weekend.

Does it stay in the 32 bit version?

@@myne00 mine athlon 64 supports 64-bit and it can boot there, otherwise 32-bit works well in any Pentium 4 (not older, but LGA775 socket if i remember correctly) on Windows 10

Yep, the 5500 dies if you try this.

Isn't most 6 and 7 series has AGP to PCIe bridge.

There are some PCI-E to AGP adapters - where a PCI-E to PCI bridge chip is added. You can find them on ebay, but they are rather pricey: www.ebay.com/itm/176293393840 I had at some point an ATI HD3850 AGP 256bit, quite a performer.

Nice! Just let me know if you ever order this adapter. The PWM fan controller it's optional, and I guess can make it like 20% cheaper without it. But if you go with this full "Deluxe" version the MSP430FR2433 MCU needs to be programmed.

how much did it cost you in total and which version of the adapter did you order? @SobieRobie

@@mirific87 I ordered something else!

Yes, I think this is the most advanced design by far... There is no other PCI to AGP adapter using Digital Bus Switch ICs (SN74CB3T3245). But all this fancy stuff will obviously increase the total cost. (BOM) I mean you need 7 x SN74CB3T3245 which is like 2$ a piece (if you order less than 10). Meanwhile, some other adapters are using 0 ICs. All these tiny ICs + MCU for the PWM fan + all the connectors - you end up with something like a 40$ bill - without the PCB and the manufacturing fees. But I guess it's still better than a dodgy 90$ eBay adapter. I would put my money into a PCI-E to AGP adapter.

It really is! I mean, it's a bit overengineered but this was an effort to make it safer and more tolerant...

In a week or so... :)

So far, I didn't try any adapter from Oskchar. The adapter featured on the video is obviously a much sophisticated build - with about 30$ extra electronic components added for the sake of being on the safe side... Both adapters are not doing any magic when it comes to AGP bus. A full compatible adapter needs a bridge chip that can fully emulate the AGP bus so the card won't even know it's plugged into a PCI or PCI-Express slot. Otherwise depends on the card's firmware and driver if it can be used while AGP features are completely disabled.

The main commercial reason for AGP got ditched has to do with its single slot design. With PCI-E (re) started the SLI (and Crossfire) crazy days... Motherboards with multiple 16X PCI-E slots had a reason to be more expensive. For the ultimate setup now you need two or three PCI-E GPUs...

Yes, indeed. This adapter has a 66Mhz jumper but it looks like I don't have any mobo with 66Mhz PCI slots.

There absolutely will be. There was back in the day when the only options were PCI or AGP.

@@O_mores Outside of servers, 66 MHz PCI slots were very uncommon. I know the B&W Macintosh G3 had one. The Asus P5E WS Pro is an LGA775 motherboard with an X38 chipset and has a single PCI-X 1.0 slot, which is hung off an NEC PCI-X controller. I believe it runs at speeds up to 133 MHz. Might be worth trying it on there.

Even a PCIe graphics card with low power requirements might not be able to get enough from the slot. According to some google results, the PCI v2.2 spec only allows a PCI card to draw 25W total regardless of which rails it's coming from. PCIe Express can provide 75W to your GPU via the slot connector without any additional power cables. As long as the grounding is done properly, you can probably power the PCIe card from another power supply and run a PCI extension cable out to the card.

Yes They make these for use with legacy industrial stuff This guy has gotten old windows versions to work on it Also it has PCI-E in addition to plain old PCI

@@stanb1455 That is awesome!

you can also use adaptor pcie x1 to two classic PCI slots no problem if you don't have PCI slots... but you need CSM in bios to install older OS

Yes, classic PCI slots and industrial motherboards are a thing. You can find socket 1700 motherboards with 4 classic PCI/3 PCI-E starting from 200$. This motherboard is not very industrial, actually it's branded as"Business motherboard" and it has a MSRP of ~100$. Almost any manufacturer has some motherboards with classic PCI slots. Here's a Gigabyte B760 2xPCI-E16X, 1xPCI-E 1X + 1 classic PCI: www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B760M-D3H-rev-10

I know... Actually there are 2 custom Voodoo 1 cards, one with an extra TMU something like an Quantum3D Obsidian 100sb. The plan was to released the "Voodoo video" today, but life got in the way.... This week will be online for sure.

Not exactly idling you still need 7-800Mhz for older games to eliminate CPU bottleneck.

I think it gets upscaled when you upload the video on KZfaq.

@@victormancini3002 unfortunately, yes. But i know that there is a way to upscale native Glide game via 3dfx Wide Driver 1.1, but i couldn't done this and want to find a solution.

From what I know 3dfx wide driver works only with VSA-100 chips (Voodoo 4 & 5) so I can't do any further testing on my AGP Voodoo 3 2000.

It should work, browsing KZfaq is limited by your CPU mainly, modern browsers won't run without SSE2 instructions so KZfaq is out of question for anything that it's not a Pentium 4 or AMD socket 754+ CPU.

Thanks that great, rather lying around, i used the fx 5500 on pentium 4 socket 478 before

Nope, it's 100% hardware but mostly depends on the graphics chip if it can work with AGP features disabled. 3dfx Voodoo chips are working great.

Yes, it works 100%. Here are a few pictures: sdz-mods.com/index.php/2020/06/22/pci-to-agp-adapter/ Actually Voodoo 4/5 cards are the primary target PCI to AGP adapters.

AGP Voodoo cards are nowadays priced lower than their PCI variants - so this adapter makes perfect sense if you want to have fun with an AGP Voodoo on a PCI/PCI-E only motherboard. Not necessarily something as modern as this H610 motherboard featured in the video, but maybe something like a socket 754/939 PCI-E motherboard or a 775 mobo with good Windows 98/2K support.

Yes, there is a PCI-E to AGP adapter using a PCI-E to PCI bridge chip, but it's like like 250$ on ebay. Here is a picture: imgur.com/a/ekm6hEH

That would be a somewhat more complex version unless you were prepared to limit the PCIe graphics card to just a single lane...

@@jnharton not really as another post was mentioned there is and it does not surprise me as there was many cards with such a bridge chip as they where AGP gpu's with a PCI-e connector, as they would have been first gen and 2nd gen pci-e, yes in an ideal world you would want to limit the card to X lanes as it would not use the bandwidth provided or do what has been done recently with multi-function cards or switch chip or just use bifurcation "however bios needs to support".

​@@O_moresand pci is slower than agp

This adapter has like 30$ worth of extra components added just for the sake of being on the safe side.

@@O_mores The one I got seemed pretty decent. It's the one with the SATA power and usb lead... I did also have it running through the EDC Beast in an attempt to get it working with a wifi slot. keen to try again but want to be sure I don't blow a brand new gpu. Was the 5500 expecting 3.3v and received 5v?

Well, I double checked all my GPUs... and it looks like I don't have any 4090 lying around. ;)

@@O_mores damn also whats the last vga/dvi?

@@O_mores somebody, donate this man some 4090's !!!

@@Einimas Can you be a bit more specific? :)

you got a swollen capacitor on that DFI Xabre as well.

Still, Xabre 400 was a mid range card, even if this was only for a short period. You have to take in consideration what was the market in 2002: LOW END: Radeon 7000/7500/GeForce 2 MX400/GF4 MX400 SE(64bit)/Xabre 200 | Mid range: GF4-MX440 8X(128bit)/Radeon 9000/9000 PRO - Xabre 400/600 High end cards were: Radeon 9700PRO/GeForce Ti4xxx - www.ixbt.com/video2/images/xabre600/compet.png

Yes, indeed, didn't see it until I edited this video.

The GeForce 4MX was GeForce 2 with NV marketing BS. It was outclassed by GeForce 3

It's not ridiculous at all. I have to check how if anything can be done using the TPM port. Anyway, I actually have an ATX DFI industrial motherboard www.dfi.com/product/index/305 socket 1150, USB 3 and 2 x ISA slots - but so far no one could make of use of those ISA slots in DOS or Windows. They might work under a custom VM. There not many of the boards around so far only 2-3 people have tried so far...

@@O_mores Aah yes, I forgot motherboards like that existed which I discovered a while ago. I also came across PCI to ISA adapters online, apparently the only downside is that it cannot support DMA, It sounds difficult to pull off if you attempt to test, for example, a Gravis Ultrasound card or a Coaxial NIC, but it would make for another great video

@@bvazquez90 Definitely, there will be an ISA video this year. Without DMA there is not much fun - no sound card will work (the MIDI part should work though), maybe I can unlock those two ISA ports that I have on my motherboard.

That's what I thought, until I used Google Translate.... According to GT it is "shabre" like in shoulder...

@@O_mores GT isn't exactly versed on the nuances of English and branding. X is typically sh in Chinese, h in Spanish, and ex or z in English. That said, it's probably a Taiwanese card, so perhaps I'm applying my English biases inappropriately. I wonder if there is video from the company at the time? An ad or promo

Yes, didn't see it until I did a close up. I will do a recap.

Yes, indeed. In 1998 I had an S3 Virge GX2 (released in 1997) which is basically the same as Trio 3D - and what can I say - as a teenager I was ready to trade my S3 card for literally any other card. So I ended up with a 4MB Cirrus Logic Laguna 3D AGP, which was maybe a bit better...

@@O_mores I had S3 Savage 4, it was really great card. The drivers though were real problem, we had to take d3d from one version, opengl icd from another and s3 metal from 3rd. Though only Unreal and UT-98 were using S3Metal but with S3TC compressed textures they had thebest picture all around. It was sad day when VIA acquired S3 as their integrated video department. If only they had better driver developers... But great thing at the time was that nVidia licensed S3TC tech for their use.

@@arkstone I had a Savage 4 too. That card ended up in a K6-2/500 PC a neighbor asked me to build for his son. (using mostly second hand parts) It was the summer of 2000. That Savage 4 was his first 3D card. Quake II, Unreal and Half Life were very playable on that PC. That kid had time of his life that summer. :)

Depends also on what type of cards are you using. For example 3dfx cards are not very affected by the bandwidth of the PCI bus. I guess that's why 3dfx released high end cards like Voodoo 5 5500 for the PCI bus as well. In practice, both PCI and AGP Voodoo 5 5500 perform almost identical. In synthetic benchmarks the AGP version is like 20% faster.

That's because the PCI bus was a design which shared bandwidth between the cards not unlike ISA, but it has a wider data bus and much faster speeds. The AGP bus is basically a separate, dedicated PCI bus just for the graphics chip. So it's not magically faster than PCI except that the GPU doesn't have to share access time or bandwidth. PCIe works differently and breaks the previously parallel bus into separate "lanes" which are communicated over serially and also use differential signalling iirc. Aside from the distinct advantages of serial communication it's kinda like being able to provide a dedicated PCI bus to each card except that the "width" of the bus is cut considerably.

@@O_mores I'd have to do some research, but having more vram on the card could enables more efficient processing of data. It might also mean that data could be transferred in a compressed form and uncompressed into vram or simply on-demand. They may also have put significant time and energy into minimizing communications between the card and the cpu by a variety of means.

@@jnharton Except at 533MB/s AGP has several times the bandwidth of PCI... so I don't know about magical but in practice it's certainly faster and higher bandwidth than PCI by ANY measure. Almost nothing uses 64 bit PCI and especially the cards shown here did not. And it's not a bus. You are limited to one AGP slot in a system because it's literally point to point.

@@geeknproud321 No need to be an obnoxious nitpicker. The point is that what's different isn't primarily the electrical connection or even necessarily the signaling mechanism. There is more to the PCI bus than just a slot connector, the number of bits, and the clockspeed. How it works is critical to how fast data can be transmitted along it. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_Graphics_Port#Advantages_over_PCI P.S. You don't understand buses at all if you think they aren't also "point to point". If there is was just one card present it will be able to take advantage of most of the bandwidth usage.

It depends on whether the card needs the bandwidth provided by AGP in the first place. The PCI slot offers 1 gigabit/s transfer rate and this seems to be enough for some cards. For example, differences between the 3dfx Voodoo AGP and PCI variants are very small in reality.

@@O_mores U also can install PCI to PCI-E card, so u could install modern PCI-E cards to the retro PC like Pentium 3 and etc. But it will work worse then AGP cards. I have an idea to install that card to my P4 PC, but idk, im not sure it will work more better then my AGP card