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An Extremely Nitpicky Review of “The Fellowship of the Ring” Part 2

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Tolkien Lore

Tolkien Lore

4 ай бұрын

Continuing my extreme nitpick of Peter Jackson’s epic trilogy, we discuss terrible movie tropes, inexplicable events, and bad character decisions. Apologies for the audio and video issues; I tested the setup before I started but it still came out weird for some reason.
If you missed part 1 of this series, here it is: • An Extremely Nitpicky ...
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Пікірлер: 70
@joannemoore3976
@joannemoore3976 4 ай бұрын
I very much enjoyed the Arwen impression 😂. On another note the collapsing of time and distance in the movies always bothered me too, but I guess it's difficult to avoid in movie format.
@christina3512
@christina3512 4 ай бұрын
I love the Arwen impression! That scene is so annoying. I 100% understand why they didn't want to put Glorfindel in, but why Arwen? No one needed her to be a "girlboss" in a story that contains Eowyn, and it makes absolutely no narrative sense, so why not go the same way as the Bakshe adaptation and put Legolas in that role, or use literally any other elven character? Honestly even Elrond would have been a better choice. Also, glad it's not just me that's bothered by the staircase scene in Moria. Why is the place suddenly falling apart? It can't be just because the balrog is there, he's been around a while without causing much visible damage. Why is the ring bearer not the first one across? And physics are definitely a thing in middle earth. I love these movies, and think they're the best adaptations we're likely to get anytime soon, but they definitely do have some issues.
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 4 ай бұрын
The stair case was falling apart because the balrog did something to shake loose a stone from the ceiling which broke the connection behind the Fellowship.
@Enerdhil
@Enerdhil 4 ай бұрын
Is it me or does anyone else think Joshua is doing a horrible job of lip-synching himself.😂 It's like watching one of those Kung Fu movies from the seventies without the Kung Fu.🤣
@gang-ridertv5433
@gang-ridertv5433 4 ай бұрын
"Kung-Fu-Josh"!
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 4 ай бұрын
I really don’t know what happened. I ran a test recording before this and it seemed fine, so I’m wondering if the RAM bottomed out in the process. :(
@Enerdhil
@Enerdhil 4 ай бұрын
@@TolkienLorePodcast No problem. I just stopped watching and just listened to your excellent very nitpicky complaints about the FotR movie.😁👏👏 Can't wait until #3.🙏
@klutttmuttsprutt6087
@klutttmuttsprutt6087 4 ай бұрын
He is obviously dubbing common tongue for us mortals, I for one would have struggled with Quenya.
@poeterritory
@poeterritory 4 ай бұрын
Is the April Fool's joke your lip-synching?
@InkyMuste
@InkyMuste 4 ай бұрын
I rewatched the movie a couple weeks ago and was pleasantly surprised to see that the watcher in the water actually has these little grabby hands at the ends of its tentacles (I had to pause to see them), exactly like it was actually described as in the book. It seems that on every rewatch you pick up on something new whether it be little details or nitpicks lol.
@spencerfrankclayton4348
@spencerfrankclayton4348 4 ай бұрын
Lol, forgot to record the visuals? Then had to lipsync to his recording. 😅
@gm2407
@gm2407 3 ай бұрын
Happens on a lot of creator videos. I think the image and sound just doesn't get synchronised on the server when it lets you play the videos. I don't think it is at recording oddly enough. But yeah here the cuts and lipsynching are weird. Surprised it just wasn't refilmed.
@vc1396
@vc1396 4 ай бұрын
I always thought they didnt save gandalf because they were unsure of the structural integrity of the bridge since it had been damaged by gandalf
@Epic_Kingdom
@Epic_Kingdom 4 ай бұрын
I saw the title and thought you were going to nitpick the book for a second. 😅
@Cally.Summer
@Cally.Summer 2 ай бұрын
The first time I watched the film, when Gandalf grabs the moth, I was sure he was going to eat it.
@nathynorthy6916
@nathynorthy6916 3 ай бұрын
You could have made an entire video on the mess that Jackson made of the Council of Elrond. I'm not even sure where to start with this, but let's begin with the "summoning" of all these people from around Middle-earth. Firstly, how the hell did Elrond know that Frodo would arrive with the Ring just in time for the council? Boromir would have needed months to get there, as would Glóin and Legolas, but here's Frodo just in time for the conference. And how would someone like Boromir be expected to be able to find a hidden elven-refuge like Rivendell in the first place? And what on earth was Elrond doing sending out these summonses all over the place when the spies of the enemy were everywhere? Sauron would have got wind of it and immediately concentrated all his forces on Rivendell, thus making it impossible for the Fellowship to even set off. One of the recurrent themes of the book is the age-long estrangement of Elves and Men, so how did "word" get to Denethor that Elrond was summoning a Council due to "the weapon of the enemy" having been found? Letting this be known to anyone would have been a serious lapse of secrecy that played right into the hands of the enemy, but beside that, an Elf simply couldn't have walked into Minas Tirith (a city none of them had visited for thousands of years) and summoned anyone there to anything - Elrond wasn't even a king of Elves, never mind some kind of overlord of other races who had any kind of authority to summon them to him. Of course, in the book, the whole thing is handled much more convincingly. No one was summoned to Rivendell - they all met up there at the same time by "chance", by which Elrond meant that it wasn't chance at all - there was something going on in the world that prompted them all to arrive in Rivendell at just the right time, something moving them to do this that wasn't just the machinations of Sauron. The way Tolkien explains it gives us that eerie sense of forces beyond our comprehension at work that are shaping our destinies and histories. But Jackson obviously didn't like the subtleties involved in this vision and had to dumb it down. And so, one aspect of the book that was deleted from the movie's narrative was that it was originally Faramir's dream and not Boromir's that prompted the latter's journey to Rivendell. This strongly suggested that it should have been Faramir joining the Fellowship and not his brother - indeed, Faramir would have been far the better candidate for this, given that he would never have tried to take the Ring from Frodo. But it was the fact that Boromir did actually try to do this that led to the breaking of the Fellowship, leading to Frodo being guided into Mordor by Gollum, and then the eventual destruction of the Ring. So, was Faramir really supposed to be in the Fellowship? Or was the fact that it was Boromir took his place instead crucial to the success of the quest, ironically, through his own attempt to thwart it? Jackson obviously felt that these intriguing questions about providence, destiny and free-will that Tolkien was concerned with were too much for the average film-viewer and so decided to erase them in their entirety from the movies. Instead of them, and instead of the agonised debate about what to do with the Ring that exhausted all other possibilities until Frodo stepped up to tell the Council that he would take the Ring to Mount Doom, Jackson just decided to dispense with any discussion and turn the whole thing into a brawl over who should have the Ring. And all it took to break up this brawl over the most powerful object in Middle-earth was apparently for Frodo to stand up and say he would take the Ring and by doing so somehow magically dispel all the competing claims as to who should have the Ring - as though you could also resolve the Israel-Palestine conflict by having a hobbit stand up in the midst of intense negotiations and proclaim that he would take over the whole disputed region. This is Jackson's "solution" to a problem in the text that didn't exist in the first place - and it's as unnecessary as it is stupid.
@coreyander286
@coreyander286 3 ай бұрын
Obviously the she-orc lays the orc-larva, which burrows into moist ground and then grows into an uruk-hai covered in an amniotic mud sac. 🙂 Same with elves, obviously. As for the Boromir knowing Aragorn is the rightful king, I have to imagine that just for the entire past 3000 years of this version of the Third Age, the Stewards of Gondor have been in constant communication with the Rangers. Every time a new heir of Isildur is born, one of the Rangers reports their name to the Stewards. But they just never got around to returning to the throne. The fragment of the Khazad-dum staircase wasn't being tilted by Aragorn and Frodo's weight, it was actually Gandalf pushing it back and forth with magic.
@blakewinter1657
@blakewinter1657 4 ай бұрын
I'm also annoyed they had Gandalf not want to go to Moria. in the books he wanted to go, and Aragorn didn't. It showed that Aragorn could sometimes be wrong (as he pushed for the pass of Caradhras).
@spencertaylor-mrliltay
@spencertaylor-mrliltay 4 ай бұрын
😂 Great title/thumbnail!
@gang-ridertv5433
@gang-ridertv5433 4 ай бұрын
Wouldn't Gandalf suspect Balin of being dead after seeing the dead dwarves at the inside of the west gate to Moria? That alone destroys your whole point, unless it's a cinematic vs extended edit thing. I suspect Denathor Palantir shenanigan's, or Galadriel fastracking the message via telepathy, or maybe to add a wildcard Saruman told him. Or birds delivered the message via a Radagast connection? It's kinda like how Tom Bombadil was clearly warned by the High elves (Why weren't they more helpfull? Might as well take Frodo with you to the Gray Havens as Rivendell) that Frodo needed help and that servants of Sauran were hunting him. How did Tom get the message? As for the Wraiths riding in the crash course with the wave, from a cinematic standpoint it runs the risk to lacking tension or just looking funny seeing wraiths riding along and getting tackled by a wave in the last moment out of nowhere--cinematically speaking. To much like a "you laugh, you lose"/"America's funniest home videos" kind of deal. As for Boromir holding Frodo back, the bridge is crumpling after all, and their side of the chasm with it for all Boromir knows. And Boromir knows Frodo is too important to lose down a deep dark hole that might as well go to the core of the planet. The editing with that scene is frustrating, like how "Unusual Suspect" pointed out that Gandalf smites the bride, and THEN the Balrog steps on it after it has clearly been compromised by magic, also why is he depicted with WINGS?! NO REASON FOR THAT! That scene is handled better in some radio dramas, where Gandalf is depicted shouting "Fly you fools" as he is literally already falling, or something like that.
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 4 ай бұрын
Gandalf told Gimli way earlier he wouldn’t go through Moria unless he had no other choice, implying his fear that Balin had died long predated the discovery of corpses just inside the doors.
@gm2407
@gm2407 3 ай бұрын
I like that Gandalf and Aragorn have both been through Moria and Gimli never asks what year they travelled through Moria. (But I am remembering the 70s version here) Do they mention it in the book?
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 3 ай бұрын
Nope. Aragorn says almost nothing. Gandalf I think mentions he was looking for Thrain so that limits it some but not very precisely.
@Lord_Stug
@Lord_Stug 4 ай бұрын
3:38 I won't say that this hugely vindicates her putting the sword to his neck, but it is noteworthy that she is putting the blunt side to his neck so it really isn't all that dangerous.
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 4 ай бұрын
It’s also at the point though and if he turned wrong he’d impale his neck on it.
@Lord_Stug
@Lord_Stug 4 ай бұрын
​@@TolkienLorePodcastThat's true.
@stevemonkey6666
@stevemonkey6666 4 ай бұрын
There is one answer... in fact a one word answer, to most of what you're saying. "Exposition" 😅
@rubybaby7320
@rubybaby7320 4 ай бұрын
I am extremely picky and less than forgiving to Peter Jackson. He had one chance to get the story right and he was just too damned lazy to do it. I was on every message board in existence during the development so I could find out what the script would be like. I will never forget that he said they needed to 'punch up' Faramir's character.... Punch.it.up. Yeah. The most fundamental flaw was in not understanding that LotR was written to be read aloud and that is how it should be edited down. Instead Jackson wanted to tell a fun story about Hobbits. That bad beginning spawned all sorts of consequential evil. Another is the miscasting. I agree that Hugo Weaving did do a good job as Elrond but to me, he was doomed by the Matrix. Agent Elrond sprung into being full grown from the first scene. Aragorn never looked Kingly. Was that bad grooming? Was this the unshaven grunge look that was popular? I find it hard to believe that was the best that the wardrobe department could do. I also question if Viggo Mortenson could draw himself up and engage in a kingly stance. Imo he phoned it in. And then there's Galacriel'v voice over. Men were corrupted by greed? How brave and courageous for Peter Jackson to voice that overdone worn out trope! Again, a basic nonunderstanding of the source material. And of course, John Noble joins Weaving into the PJ caricature hall of fame. If he'd been able to voice the book's character, we'd understand that men are afraid to die just like in real life! I just found your channel and I'm enjoying the binge!
@blakewinter1657
@blakewinter1657 4 ай бұрын
In the books doesn't it say that Gandalf 'teetered on the edge for a moment' when the Balrog got him with the whip?
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 4 ай бұрын
Just checked, and no it does not.
@blakewinter1657
@blakewinter1657 4 ай бұрын
@@TolkienLorePodcast Ah you're right, the description just says 'he staggered and fell.' Which could be read as the whip still being around him, or not, I think. I do agree that in the books it happens very quickly either way. And of course Aragorn and Boromir were in the process of running to help him, but couldn't get there in time.
@wompastompa3692
@wompastompa3692 4 ай бұрын
Boromir sped to Imladris via Gondor's Pony Express.
@kelleyjordan454
@kelleyjordan454 4 ай бұрын
Why not just make one or both of Arwen’s brothers find and bring Frodo and company to Rivendell? It would still work except for the romance element . We see the twins again in the story, you could still have the magic/ action sequence at the ford and Elrond probably wouldn’t mind because males, but also older and experienced rangers/ warriors
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 4 ай бұрын
We don’t see them in the movies though so you still end up with an extra, “wasted” character.
@kelleyjordan454
@kelleyjordan454 4 ай бұрын
@@TolkienLorePodcast No I meant hypothetically. Peter Jackson’s movies were my introduction to LOTR but the books are better. He did the twins and the Grey Company dirty.
@ninetyZeven
@ninetyZeven 4 ай бұрын
Fly you fools!
@ninetyZeven
@ninetyZeven 4 ай бұрын
April Fools
@stevemonkey6666
@stevemonkey6666 4 ай бұрын
Sam finds some eggs and asks everyone how they want to cook them. Finally Gandalf says "fry, you fools"
@Enerdhil
@Enerdhil 4 ай бұрын
​@@ninetyZeven Great point. "Fly you April Fools" is correct.😁👍
@MewnBoi
@MewnBoi 4 ай бұрын
Missed u man
@stevemonkey6666
@stevemonkey6666 4 ай бұрын
You say that elves reproduce like men, however I have never seen a baby elf in any Tolkien thing
@anarionelendili8961
@anarionelendili8961 4 ай бұрын
Feanor's mother Miriel dying essentially in childbirth comes to mind: "But in the bearing of her son Míriel was consumed in spirit and body; and after his birth she yearned for release from the labour of living. And when she had named him, she said to Finwë: ‘Never again shall I bear child; for strength that would have nourished the life of many has gone forth into Fëanor.’ " The various half-elven heroes signals pretty clearly that elves and humans can reproduce together. And in the Histories of Middle-earth (HoME), the elven reproduction is spelled out, too.
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 4 ай бұрын
Even if we only consider PJ’s movies, we get Arwen’s vision of her son in RotK.
@anarionelendili8961
@anarionelendili8961 4 ай бұрын
@@TolkienLorePodcast Except that Eldarion is not an elf, but a human, since Arwen chose the mortal path before he was even conceived. At best, he would have been a mortal half-elf.
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 4 ай бұрын
@anarionelendili8961 yes, but that has nothing to do with the biology. Arwen’s reproductive system isn’t what changes when she makes her choice.
@anarionelendili8961
@anarionelendili8961 4 ай бұрын
@@TolkienLorePodcast I'd argue that there is some metaphysical change there. Elrond's children get to choose if they stay elven or mortal. Elros, choosing mortal, doesn't bequeath his progeny with the same choice: they are human. Thus, once Arwen makes her choice to be mortal, her son is a mortal human. Eldarion can't choose to become an elf, and thus to call him an elf child is not accurate, IMHO.
@gang-ridertv5433
@gang-ridertv5433 4 ай бұрын
I honestly thought it says in the appendices that orcs can be created via magic as well be ordinary male&female reproduction. Check that for me Josh.
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 4 ай бұрын
Never read that anywhere that I can think of 😂
@Enerdhil
@Enerdhil 4 ай бұрын
Wasn't the original origin of Orcs similar to what Peter Jackson did? I seem to remember seeing that somewhere in HoME.🤔
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 4 ай бұрын
You mean them being descended from elves or them coming out of the ground?
@Enerdhil
@Enerdhil 4 ай бұрын
@@TolkienLorePodcast Coming out of the ground.
@Enerdhil
@Enerdhil 4 ай бұрын
@@TolkienLorePodcast I found this in Tolkien Gateway: "The first conception in The Book of Lost Tales (1917-1920) describes explicitly how Melko created Orcs or Goblins directly from earth: '...for all that race were bred by Melko of the subterranean heats and slime. Their hearts were of granite and their bodies deformed.[1]'"
@TolkienLorePodcast
@TolkienLorePodcast 4 ай бұрын
@Enerdhil true, but that’s not the version PJ went with obviously. Saruman’s little monologue clearly goes with the Silmarillion version.
@Enerdhil
@Enerdhil 4 ай бұрын
@@TolkienLorePodcast Yes. You are right.
@stevemonkey6666
@stevemonkey6666 4 ай бұрын
The reason that Arwen is there rather than Glorfindel it's pretty simple. There is almost no girls in the movie and this was a good way to add a girl. Otherwise the only female in the movie is Galadriel. And she holds a sword to Aragorn because she's a tough woman who don't need no man
@va3svd
@va3svd 4 ай бұрын
“She’s a tough woman who don’t need no man”. Untrue. She’s not 300 lbs, single, up to her ears in debt, loaded with tattoos, and four abortions to her count yet.
@Enerdhil
@Enerdhil 4 ай бұрын
Early years of DEI.... Girl-boss power.
@iainmc9859
@iainmc9859 4 ай бұрын
Arwen - let me explain, American audience does not like or understand movie without love interest, Rest of the World fine, America, where's the babe, what's Aragorn fighting for .....
@user-mb1hg4qu9f
@user-mb1hg4qu9f 4 ай бұрын
Well, it's called suspending disbelief....
@m0-m0597
@m0-m0597 4 ай бұрын
HOW dare you picking on Peter Jackson 😡 I've had it with you unsubscribed reported and flagged 🤬
@Enerdhil
@Enerdhil 4 ай бұрын
Everything Joshua said in the video was objectively true. I love the LotR movie trilogy because they got me to read the books and that changed my life. Now I am all about the written lore, and I recognize how much PJ changed. Most of his changes were to adapt the pages to film. Anyway, you shouldn't unsub over something as minor as a KZfaqr's admittedly very nitpicky take on movies. Just skip these and watch his other fantastic videos.😁👍
@m0-m0597
@m0-m0597 4 ай бұрын
@@Enerdhil No I've already thrown my PC out of the window, I can not come back
@Enerdhil
@Enerdhil 4 ай бұрын
@@m0-m0597 Sorry to see you go. Maybe I will see you again on another Tolkien KZfaqr's comment board. 😁👍
@m0-m0597
@m0-m0597 4 ай бұрын
@@Enerdhil Man, you just don't want to hear jokes like this on April first.. It's slowly getting frustrating
@Enerdhil
@Enerdhil 4 ай бұрын
@@m0-m0597 People who don't know you will never guess your post was an April Fool's joke. Anyway, you got me😞, but I still look forward to reading your posts.😉 👍 See you around!
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