Two years ago, Keycult did a long giveaway stream where they gave away around 5 boards as a ‘thank you’ to the community. The winners of those boards still do not have them and have received a total of two updates in that two year span, with complete silence for over a year now.

When I started this hobby I heard that Keycult and Ramaworks were THE top tier makers. Funny how things have changed.

KC's decision to move manufacturing in-house was very poorly thought out. The Chinese factories which most keyboard designers use (including Dadesin, the factory which KC used to produce the No.1 series boards) operate at an industrial scale and are equipped with millions of dollars worth of machines and skilled workers. There's no chance that a couple of dudes who decided to buy a CNC machine could produce keyboards which are superior in quality than those of the factories from a price-to-performance perspective.

I'm a machinist and programmer of over 20 years, I remember talking to them on discord about machining when they were first got their machines. They came across as some of the most pretentious assholes I have ever had the pleasure of speaking with, essentially telling me I don't know anything and that they had it all figured out. That whole crew, salvun,keycult, and smith + rune are just rich boys that don't really understand manufacturing. Kinda enjoy seeing them crash and burn, to be honest.

From the discord convo, looks like Keycult is really living its name to its full meaning “cult”

ngl andy your recent videos have been BANGERS. this is one of your best to date.

This is a very good chance for me to preach MatrixLab as the top tier manufacturer. There are many deciding factors that just make Matrix better imo. Matrix does everything in house, design, CNC, ano and coating, PCB, even packaging. And every single aspect they do it better, apart from design which is a more subjective thing. Also Matrix doesn't screw over their customers, if a GB is late they give compensation or full refund, and they add more accessories to their keyboards well after there were released. The Matrix ME just got a new backplate even though it's a keyboard from 3 years ago. They have badges, special editions, and they even offer Topre modding package for their boards. Their customer service is so good and professional, you don't need to worry a thing. Things like surface finishing being not perfect or you made a tiny dent that is bothering, you can just pay to get a replacement part. Unlike other brands, you can literally slap MatrixLab's logo on a deskmat, or design a new FR4 plate and go to their discord for an IC and they can help you produce it. The amount of chill and wholesomeness of that team and community is something else and I feel like I'm so blessed owning their boards

i think id watch andy more if he covered more keyboard drama

Their discord already calling you a liar lmao. this man has receipts and anyone with eyes and thousands spent on a private GB with them knows it’s true

This has been really insightful, now I know I wasn't the only one that has been ghosted for over 1 year... My case was a bit different and this video helped join the dots on what was happening. I was not aware of the situation with Keycult and kept waiting for a response.

Can’t say I’ve followed mechmerlin super closely in the handful of years I’ve been in the hobby, but every time I’ve watched one of his vids/streams, he seems like a super wholesome guy who just gives his honest take, and clearly he’s seen a lot of boards (certainly more than just about anyone lurking in a discord). if he’s considered inflammatory, then these fanatics really need to take a step back and reevaluate. This is the same kind of thing I see in the computer hardware space all the time (intel vs amd, amd vs nvidia), people are ready to go to war for people / companies they don’t even know.

Great video Andy! Finding out that under that shitty white powder coat was blue ano was ridiculous. I was literally in such disbelief. I hope KC gets it together. But man, the powder coat is such a terrible option. Even CK's bakeneko coatings look and feel better the KC powder coat.

Man, I remember when I won a 2/65 and remembering how stoked I was in the moment. And then it arrived. It was a powdered white on unfinished silver. And I remember how much of a pain it was to assemble. But I kept telling myself, its a keycult, I'll be happy with it when I'm done building it. And then I finished building it, and realized how much I hated the powder coating. By then I had already owned boards from Space Studio, Smith + Rune, and AI03, and the finish was just lackluster in comparison to those boards, it just felt cheap. Again, no worries, I think I can cope with that. Adding onto that, I wasn't a fan of being forced into a 7u layout. But no worries, by this time basically all big boards had good 3rd party aftermarket support. I should have been able to just find a plate online and my problems would be solved.... But I couldn't. So I messaged one of these popular 3rd party shops that does everything for you and asked about it. Turns out, Keycult sent them a cease & desist for producing those plates. It was at that moment, I felt like it didn't sit right to own a board like that anymore. The hobby to me is all about customization and others helping each other out. If I couldn't even get the board I rightfully won to the way I wanted it without jumping through hoops, It definitely wasn't for me. Flipped it for a bit over what I paid and called it there.

Lol seeing people try to talk to MechMerlin like that and claim he's being inflammatory... Like kid, do you know who you are talking to? Not some rookie who is upgrading from a keychron,😂

As a newbie to the hobby (only 2 months and just got my first taste with the Zoom TKL AE literally today), this has been a very informative video. Not only have learnt that Keycult is positioned as a premium brand, I've also got to know its history and its current problems. Before this video, I've heard of Keycult but didn't even know their price ranges. So I love finding these kind of videos.

Slammed that notif just for my fave storytelling channel/keeb content

Great commentary, as usual, Andy. I hope KC fanatics don't try to cancel you. Keep up the good work.

As someone who has had experience just joining the keycult discord server I can agree, almost off the bat I asked a geunine question, can't remember what and almost instantly people started acting like assholes to me, even recently I tried to say that you raised some good arguments and you provided actual proof I was told that you were "up to your old tricks again" and "1minute into the video and it's wrong" It really is a cult following of people who will go out of their way to endlessly defend keycult

It always confuses me why so many people get such huge loyalty to a company that doesn't really care about them that much.

Was considering getting a keycult. Sounds like they are riding on the great reputation they once had. I wish the fanboys would see the criticism towards their preferred brand is critical for improvements. Silencing those voices would just encourage them to stay where they are.

Loving these commentaries Andy! Keep'em coming

Keycult gonna send their hittas after this one Andy 👀

keycult kinda fell off ngl

You went too easy on em Andy! Already got the acolytes in a frenzy over in their discord smh

This was a well balanced look at where KC was to where they are now. Nicely done. Unfortunate to see what happens when hobbyists don't think through the business implications of making major financial decisions. The customer experience is always the first to go...

Never liked Keycult, Rama however oh my...I still want a M60 (any), LNY or RNB are both super nice. I wouldn't use them because of HHKB and high front, high angle. With the prices on the aftermarket dropping further and further I might get one someday

just get kalamcult xd

Would watch this video, but I gotta spend time with my family.

i think everyone is missing what keycult is trying to and successfully achieved here. They already said, their goal is to make sure everyone who wants a keycult gets one. There’s two way you can solve this problem, you can either increase supply till it meets demand or you can decrease demand till it meets the supply. Clearly they chose the latter

it’s ok we still have geonworks doing god’s work

I feel Keycult is over hyped.

I won the black and white 2/65 some months ago. I was so excited to build it. I even mentioned it in your stream. HOLY SHIT WHAT A MISTAKE. They cerakoted the switch plate which made it impossible to put in switches without damn near snapping then - their alignment pin idea sucks too, because the cerakote on the plate was so thick that all 4 pins would be impossible to get in, so I stuck with 2. Built it like I would any other - it was the worst sounding keyboard in my collection. And I own goofy shit like a cyberboard or a GMMK Pro. The GMMK Pro had better sound and flex than the 2/65. The GMMK Pro has absolutely no sound or flex. On a side note, I just recently won another 2/65 in one of their secret raffles. It will be sold as soon as it touches down. For retail. Like I sold the other one. Because nobody should have to pay more for this peace of shit than it has to be.

straight from the go keycult

As a new hobbyist I really appreciate these vids. Informative on the keeb history and big players. Post covid demand slowdown is real and doesn’t help that the economy isn’t great, many companies also have to cut corners to stay afloat. Those that end up suffering are the paying consumers.

Probably my favourite series on the hobby right now. If we don't look issues in the face, they just fester and become chronic.

Someone pass the popcorn, thanks

People likes connecting poor quality to Made in China here in the US, it’s a good lesson to those biased opinions. There are different levels of manufactures in China, you pay what you get for. Just like you’d almost expect a shitty job if you get a super cheap contractor here. To those peeps, when you see some poor quality products made in China next time, you may want to blame the sellers picked a low tier manufacturer to maximize their own profit rather than paying for a better quality manufacturer

This was really eye opening. For a long time Fomo has had me believing that I merely settled for my Zoom75 and QK65 but it seems I actually have the better value product.

Thanks for these informative videos, Andy. As someone who is newer in the hobby and does not know Keycult that well, I'm always interested in videos like these

such a shame to hear. Always wanted a white 1/60

US based ano shops do not care about finish quality or aesthetics so it’s no surprise kc is struggling

9:30 no lie that anodization looks worse then my tofu’s finish lol (edit: maybe silver is easier than blue?). Also, had no idea about the keycult situation-thanks for the video!

Much needed take on KC. Points out all the flaws/inconsistencies with the brand. Hopefully they watch this and use the feedback as constructive criticism to improve their processes.

I've built a few QK60 and their coating is MILES better than this. it doesn't take a matrix board to beat that.

Great video and insight, Andy! After building both a QK65 and a Tiramisuit, I can say that the anno on them look nowhere as tacky as that blue or questionable as the hammered. Sound hollow is a bit questionable without the foam, but you can mod both boards enough and put enough weight into them that they give that signature OWLabs + whatever switch sound that sounds great. I've always wanted a keycult since starting the hobby in early 2020. Never won a raffle, or had the money before to pay scalpers for that No. 1 TKL I wanted. Glad that I've passed on the aftermarket for their most recent boards.

I entered the Salvation group buy back in 2021. and i waited 2 years for a board that was B stock and i had to RMA to get a board with no blemishes on the outside. So im done with salvun. Im not gonna bother to buy another board from them or made by them.

Bringing manufacturing in house is one thing. If you don't have the QC to make sure that your manufacturing is up to par then it doesn't matter.

For someone may be interested: I have both newer powdered 2/65 and older ano 2/65. The letters in the bottom corner are "02-65v2-P" vs "02-65v1-A". The older ano 2/65 has much better quality which can be called as premium custom keyboard. They probably updated the CNC machinery (v2) in order to increase the production speed, but I guess that is how they got many defective cases & had choose to powder coated them.

in kalam we trust

SingaKBD > KC

Damn i was wondering what happened to them . When i joined the hobby 3 years ago these guys were Kings. Would have never expected them to fall this soon, this fast.

I've had some pretty bad experience in KC discord. Had a hard time with the build process of 2/65 and when I asked questions, a lot of people were sarcastic lol

This is an incredible video - do Mechs & Co next :)

Great vid! Not surprised they’re an actual cult at this point…

I feel like they are doubling down on the Sunk cost fallacy. They really should just chuck the inhouse model as a loss. They should nail down design and out source in batches for in stock drops

Straight from the 'go keycult kinda just disappeared

ever since your powder blue stream I have

Yo great video. Their quality totally went downhill.

Nice vid mate

The crazy thing is that I’ve heard from a multiple friends that the “Kalam” keycults were better built than the real Keycults. Personally I can’t attest to that because I haven’t had a Kalam in hand, but man if someone can literally clone your board and it comes out better than the original, there’s something majorly wrong.

13:30 "They go to war for their vendor" Imagine being a corporate simp for a company that doesn't give a fuck about you lol

Not gonna lie I’ve had issues trying to get good consistent Anodizing, here in the states

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

For starters, I don't hate what Keycult tried to do with moving the manu back stateside. While it was a huge risk, the reward for both Keycult and the hobby would have been huge as well if it had worked out. Just because working with Dadesin or another Chinese manufacturer is the way it's always been done doesn't mean it has to always be. CarolinaMech makes their boards stateside and has been successful, albeit with much smaller numbers. The way they handled the commissions and the state of the boards they shipped is inexcusable though, just to be clear so I don't get branded as a KC simp. What makes the situation especially rough in my opinion is how most of their competitors in the most hype space (TGR and Singha namely) have found ways to scale up their production to meet the boom in demand without compromising their standards or the reputation of their brands. The Jane and 910 ME are nearly perfect examples of how to release more accessible versions of insanely hyped boards, and the Tomo came out beautifully for an unlimited GB board. For all the controversy around the ME design changes and whether the lack of a milled internal weight makes the ME "nOt A rEaL jAnE", the quality of the boards and the ano is indisputable and actually better than the original Jane v2s/CEs. As for Singha, Elaine managed to put a lot more Unikorns into people's hands with the R2.2 raffles, and there will be a lot more Kohaku's in the world once R2 ships. I haven't heard anything but praise for the new korns, and I would expect the next round of Kohakus to be excellent as well. So now Keycult is in an awful place where they took a big gamble, it didn't pan out, and they handled the fallout of the failure very poorly. I've heard they are going back to Dadesin for the 1/65 preorder they did back in January, which will hopefully stem the bleeding and buy them some time to figure out their issues stateside. I personally likely won't be buying another Keycult in the future, but I hope they pull through this and I think the hobby is better with Keycult than it would be without them.

Damn son Rik is the homie too. I didn’t know he went hard for KC lmao

In your opinion, what low-mid tier boards should one go for over an aftermarket keycult these days (if money was no issue).

What are the recommendations for top tier manufacturers right now? Been looking at Maker Scarlett.

great video andy.

You’re late Andy! This video should have come months ago hehe. Anw i love your channel so much tbh. Keep the work going. I love this kind of talk.

7:42 felt that

Still love my keycult no2/65, the build process was definitely difficult but you can expect something more complicated with the price tag you are paying for it. The main way I built mine was basically just watching other streamers build theirs. There were 20+ at the time I received mine from raffle. " I'd recommend anyone building a keyboard worth this tag to research as much as possible before trying to build it as well. Hope you been well andy fam, stay awesome!

I actually solved the issue with my powder white 2/65 by simply stripping the powdercoat and leaving it raw alu. Looks insane

Once I spray painted a keyboard myself and it looks better than that blue powder coating lmao

What I see is 2 dudes that had great success designing keyboards, but completely underestimated the skill it takes to be a machinist.

Idk but when I watch andy video its feel like talking with friend

I've had two keycults from raffle wins and they were the 2/65 brass and black and purple one. The quality was amazing, both were amazing boards. I have a Unikorn now from raffle and it's damm nice. There is a lot of brands now making great boards so I would advise to just keep an open mind.

:dogegepopcorn:

Bro that discord server... 💀 rip merchmerlin 😔

Rama next pls

Good video! Bold for you to call them out. The fanboys will definitely be coming for you.

read the title in kanye's voice

I can't say I'm surprised to see the vitriol from super fans. They're probably huffing copium to justify their purchase and can't stand to see an opposing opinion that invalidates the money they spent.

Phew happy I didn't get one

less reason for kc, more reason for singakbd

I want a high end kit, but how to know which buy, i see Zoom65 or choice65, i really don't know how to know if quality.

hey andy what music did you use for this video, i have been looking for it

I read this title like "I miss the old Kanye"

At this point in time I think there is more worth it options in the market than the KC series

My theory may be a stretch here but here's my wildly guessed OPINION on why the "fans" may be so hostile. As you mentioned in one of your previous videos, this hobby revolves around 3 main elements: Preference, Hype (clout), Experience. If word gets out that keycult is no more than a shadow of its past, Hype for it dies out. A portion of kc owners do it for the hype or clout, or simply to resell. Simply put, less hype, less value. Be it monetary or clout value. Therefore to protect that inherently perceived value, they try their best to maintain the perception that people have for kc. But that's just me, I still am a fan of their rendition no.1 designs (I have both the 1/65 and the no.1 tkl) but I ain't gonna lie they fell off recently and I can only hope that returning to China manufacturers for their january preorder is one step forward to reclaiming their former glory.

Keycult stonks down

makes me wonder what they did to those users to make them bootlick so hard. you cant even ask a question about the drama without getting condescending comments from the "acolytes" lmao. what a joke of a community.

All that's left is the cult

It’s ironic to see china clones is on par with the original quality of Keycult at a fraction cost of what Keycult charges. Caveat - never a fan of clones and had not bought one.

As much as I would love to own a keycult, videos like this are important to shed light on these things so that you don't just fall victim to the hype and really are able to make an informed decision on where to spend your money.

KC is done tbh, they haven't responded to anything in the past couple of months when it comes to complaints on redit. Its a shame to see it but it solidifies Singa's place as KING.

so thoccy

Honestly, qk65's anodization looks way better than whatever you have here. The e-coat for qk65 was probably slightly worse than the anodization, but the quality is still better than this trashy powdery mess you have shown. Honestly, at this juncture, we shoud just straight up just strike the keycult as something of the past. Other top tier brands like TGR/SingaKBD still retain their quality/finishing (well, for most parts. I have had one of the monokei version....and it was bad enough that i sold it off at cost in a week). Even "newer" top tier designers like JJW are doing a ridiculous good job with their qc. Then there's Geonworks as well with their stuff. In 2023 there's just really no justification to go with keycults anymore. Artificial scarcity, bad QC, and poor PR makes the brand just a dinosaur right now in the keyboard community in 2023.

Guess they found out the hard way that trying to make maximum profit with limited resources could backfire ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Excellent video Andy, you hit all the heavy points and the state of keycult. They clearly have lost their way as a brand and forgot what their foundations were.

I don't. The keycult simps are terrible. Also you should've brought up merlin's unboxing video: Unboxing: Keycult No. 1 Rev 2 Amazing Keycult QC right there lmao