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Audio Starts at 4:08

Kwaku said in his testimony that he was raised in a liberal household and was a Methodist for less than a year until some beautiful Mormon girls invited him to LDS church where he “felt in his heart” that they had better answers for the afterlife concerning gays and Muslims and Hell. Of course that answer felt great to his human nature! He literally had no understanding of the Bible or Protestant theology and was suckered away by chicks that gave him attention 🤦🏻‍♂️ OOF

Jeff, I'm glad you stopped his cultic proselytizing on your show!

I know it's been 2 years since thus all happened, but I'd love to see a follow-up on this guy and see if anything has changed. Much love brothers and sister. God bless 🙌🙏❤

Kwaku strikes me as disingenuous. He'll ask a question in hopes of scoring some kind of point then quickly scurry onto something else when its being answered. Because hes not interested in the answer, he just wants to find some angle of attack.

Thanks jeff ur Ministry changed my life

That dude was a classic case of a fool who thinks he knows everything but knows nothing and does not put in the hours studying his beliefs but expects everyone else to listen to him and only him

I watched the entire debate! Kwaku could do nothing but appeal to his own confidence level and make dogmatic empty authority claims. He did so much interrupting that Jeff and Dr. Whites points could hardly have room to be completed. God bless you brothers at Apologia for standing for the truth of Christ and confronting the works and doctrines of darkness! Soli Deo Gloria 🙌🏻

In the future there should be a dedicated moderator inducing a more formal debate setting. James and Jeff did great trying to explain Kwaku's fallacies but there was so much interruption that a lot of it got lost in translation. This would probably avoid Kwaku's crazy derailment at the end when he realized he wasn't equipped to defend Mormonism shifting the entire debate topic to Calvinism.

Love you, guys and gal! I can't tell you how much I learn and have a desire to dive into the Word more and study history and doctrine. Bless y'all!

Thank you for going step by step on every misconception about the TRINITY. Definitely helped!

I watched the original debate and the whole time I was thinking ....hmmm dr white and pastor Jeff are holding back. Only in a way to be gracious to kwaku. They I believe were trying to nudge him to see his own foolishness and inconsistency while kwaku was spiraling out of control handing out last ditch efforts like polytheistic Jews and ...,something about math. I high five dr white and durbin for their restraint. God has really used these two men who have really taught me a lot about the Bible and reformed theology. It wasn't to many years ago that I was a Christian who if asked about the trinity could have really blown it. My heart goes out to the mormons. I live in Utah so I know many well. My prayer is that they find rest and peace in the truth. Seeing mormons live out their faith is like watching someone try to walk across hot sand. They have to keep hopping around trying not to get burned by the realities of lds doctrine and all the while with a really big smile on their face.

Well done. This really helped after the confusion of the debate with so much interruption and false statements.

Post-modernism has further corrupted Kwaku's mind (a phenomenon rife in millenial crowds) - ie. words are meaningless and up to an infinite variety of interpretations based on feelings and relativist/subjective machinations.

Watched the entire debate and this response. As a Christian who is passionate about apologetics, I cannot tell you how helpful this whole debate and response are to those wanting to strengthen their faith in the nature of God. Christians who wish to understand the trinity better, WATCH this and the preceding debate. Christians who understand the trinity but wish to be reminded why it is so important to define it accurately and correctly? WATCH this and the preceding debate. I cannot stop ranting how important discussions and corrections like this are Thank you Apologia Studios for defending the faith and being Gods instrument for guiding fellow believers to the truth of God.

Great channel! Say have you folks at Apologia Church considered pasting links to specific points in your radio program? It’s long, which is fine, but sometimes folks don’t have the time to listen all at once. Little blue time stamped links might make the program more accessible in this busy life schedule we all seem engulfed in. God bless to you Jeff and all the other wonderful people at Apologia Church! I heard a wonderful endorsement of you Jeff from, ‘It’s Me Jesse.’ A lovely Christian sister’s KZfaq channel. She is as equally dedicated as you all are to refuting Mormonism, sharing the Gospel, and rescuing people out of Mormonism.

This is so good guys, and one Shelogion (love you Joy, and Summer lol!!). Praise God for this opportunity for y'all to do this publicly! These are great conversations and faith building. I'll continue to pray for you all and share. God bless!

Apologia Church... I love you guys. I respect you. I love what you do. I learn from you. Earlier in this podcast, I heard how you dealt with the young man’s issues regarding the Methodist Church. I am in the Methodist Church and I attend Church Camp. Those things he’s pointed out-I heard and seen. However, I’m a Christian before any denomination. I trust in Christ to work hard through my time there to give the Youth deep doctrinal truths. Now, I know you guys are Baptists. Reform Baptists-Calvinists. Lol I get it mixed up (I mean that in love). I don’t think it wise to group everyone in the Methodist Church in that category. I will stay Methodist. And you will stay Baptist. One day I would love to come right alongside you guys and talk with unbelievers, Mormons, etc. I’m practicing that now. But I don’t agree with or lean towards all those things Methodist do and the deepest theological ideals as I don’t lean fully towards Baptist/Calvinist ideals. Long story short, you have some out here (who just happen to be Baptist or Methodist) in the faith, fighting sin, the world’s ideals, and preaching the good news. So please don’t let it slip by but show love to the ones that are still preaching and showing love, even if the Methodist may minimally differ from you. With that said, I will still watch, support financially, and love you guys because you are doing a GREAT thing.

quaku's usual response "nuh uh".

I am so thankful that this follow up video was made. I was so upset after listening to that debate. This gives it a bit of closure that I personally was seeking, of course the fight continues for our Lord. I have been watching and listening for about 3 years now, thank you for your time!

THANK YOU for addressing Kwaku's poor understanding of the Trinity

Jeff, in your response part 2, please include and respond to some of their comments in the 3 Mormons episode of the Cross. It could help represent their utter ignorance of the atonement/ grace.

I was a Mormon convert. The Mormons prey of the theologically weak because they don’t have the knowledge to refute Mormonism’s claims. Thankfully I started doing my own research and figured out it was all a big scam. Thank you for what you’re doing.

Thank you!⛪

Great video!!.....

Stream starts at 4:11

What do you do when you see a spaceman? Park your car, man.

"little little brigham can't you see" - Luke LOL i love you that was so funny xD

Instead of double teaming basically a Mormon teenager. Why don’t you debate a latter day saint who holds the same degree of education as you do. I thought your debate was very unfair.

Kwaku am sorry he was so rude and disrespectful and definitely lack the patience and love so dr White and Jeff had the spirit of truth Kwaku wasn't fully prepared.

I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Happy to engage in discussion with you. I don’t believe the trinity is Christian. No I don’t believe trinity and duality are the same. I am a convert from Catholicism and no one has written more about the Trinity than St. Augustine.

As a former Mormon you would do better to interview me. I know what Mormons need to hear. The way a debate goes is like a sporting event. But with a debate both sides can announce victory. It doesn't accomplish anything. To turn hearts I invite you to reach out to me. Thank you

you just can't argue with someone who operates with such a fractured intellectual integrity...

Excellent!

He has no doctrinal books from the last 2000 years because if he read them he would be excommunicated. He should read Matthew Henry’s commentary’s to start with. It would blow his mind about how moronic what the Mormon Church taught him about Biblical Theology.

Your audio team needs some training, have them watch some videos on clipping and setting gain levels as well as compression/limiting on channels. The mic's seem to always be clipping (gain to high = clipping = voice gets distorted). You're using $400 mic's each, but all that money is a waste if the gain isn't set right. A little knowledge goes a long way!

Kawaku is very difficult to listen to. He's very arrogant, lacking courtesy and humility.

What solid materials should one read today to fully understand and teach their teens the Trinity?

I love Apologia Radio. I listen as often as I can and have benefitted so much. Apologia has inspired me to stay close to the scriptures and has helped me to grasp the Trinity more clearly. Apologia has inspired me to hold the Bible as the one source of truth at all costs. Apologia has taught me the worth of presuppositional Christian thought. Great response to the debate. Thank you for your ministry. I have a few comments that I hope you will take to heart. I hope you will avoid making loose comments on the last three hundred years of church history from now on. In the last few weeks, two members of the panel have made ridiculous claims about movements and figures from the two Great Awakenings. These comments were quick but inaccurate. Be sure to use the same acumen when speaking of history as you seek to use when opening the scriptures. In this episode, one claimed that Methodism was born in the mid-1800s in a New York area where many cults were born. This was spoken as a strike on the classical Methodist movement (apparently). This is a great and embarrassing error. Methodism was born in the 1700s at Oxford among John Wesley, Charles Wesley, George Whitefield, and others. Only later did John Wesley become the respected leader of "the People Called Methodists." The modern Methodist movement is not even a shadow of what it was in their day. At the end of his life, renowned Calvinistic evangelist George Whitefield said the following of the Methodist movement: "My brother Wesley acted wisely. The souls that were awakened under his ministry he joined in Class, and thus preserved the fruit of his labor. This I neglected, and my people are a rope of sand." In Whitefield's own estimation, Wesley's converts had grown in grace while his own had backslidden. (Yes, I mean God's converts through Wesley/Whitefield, don't worry). A large percentage of converts in the 1700s and 1800s were born again under Methodism's simple, practical gospel preaching and organized discipleship efforts. Even Charles Spurgeon came to faith through the influence of a simple Methodist preacher. After sitting many years under complex preaching, the simple Methodist gave an elementary call to "look to Christ," and Spurgeon was born from above. Spurgeon later said of John Wesley: "Most atrocious things have been spoken about the character and spiritual condition of John Wesley, the modern prince of Arminians. I can only say concerning him that, while I detest many of the doctrines which he preached, yet for the man himself I have a reverence second to no Wesleyan; and if there were wanted two apostles to be added to the number of the twelve, I do not believe that there could be found two men more fit to be so added than George Whitefield and John Wesley." Please remember that most people do not do their own research. If you make false and negative claims about church history, the people will believe you. When they hear the name "John Wesley," they will think, 1. "Apologia inferred that Methodism sprang from an area of strong cult activity. 2. John Wesley was recognized as the leader of the Methodist movement. 3. Therefore, John Wesley must not have been a faithful Christian, evangelist, and preacher, but a sort of religious fanatic that led an ungodly movement." You know it's true -- especially for cage-stage Calvinists who tend to cling to whatever criticism they can find. Whenever someone says, "John Wesley said...", they will automatically shut their ears. Let's be honest. Be careful. You have a large audience. You can easily spread misinformation and heap dishonor upon men and movements which God Himself has honored. It would be unfortunate if you spread misinformation while rebuking 3 Mormons for doing the same (regarding the Trinity etc). It would be TRAGIC if you did this regarding some of the greatest moves and men of God in history. By all means, engage historic movements, preachers, their teachings, and the (often radically different) teachings of their progeny. But do so clearly and in a way that will help others to see both their strengths and weaknesses. Please continue to fight historic heresies, engage the cults, preach the gospel, and labor to "end abortion now!" But be careful to use perfect acumen when talking about recent Church history. You guys are awesome. I'm thankful for God's ministry through you. Keep using your voice. God bless you.

Excellent debate, hard to listen to, but I enjoyed the dialogue.

The problem with Jeff and Jame’s debate with Kwaku is that they completely gained up on him. Jeff made this video because he felt as though he needed to justify is actions.Otherwise why was it so important to post a “ follow up” video regarding a college student he had on his show?

I heard Kwaku call Christ the only begotten of God. Now if Christ and "Satan" are brothers (admitted by their theology) wouldn't that make "Satan" or Lucifer a begotten son of God as well, making the statement that Jesus Christ is the only begotten of God erroneous?

That's partialism Patrick!!!

I wish I could defend Him the way you can.

Hi Jeff can you share the contact info of the book maker that made the Bible that was gifted to the young Mormon? Thank you

I said it then, I'll say it again. A fool will be lead by pride. That guy rejected and considered every argument by Dr. White as false without even: 1) listening to Dr. White's entire argument, and 2) by saying all of his evidence is wrong.. Without knowing or reading about Dr. White's evidence. His pride will lead him towards condemnation, and with tears in my heart, there is nothing one can do with the hardened heart of a fool.

Mormonism is interesting to me because of the inconsistency of ancient history. I think it’s pretty conclusive that the Americas were re-discovered and biblical people were indeed traveling back-and-forth well before the time of Columbus and the other great explorers. All through gods providence

Kwaku refuses to be wrong....it’s the same defensive behaviour you always get from mormons. They live in a club and just ignore any fact shown to them that contradicts their bizarre beliefs.

I wonder if people realize that humans have three parts. We have a soul, we have a spirit, and we have flesh. So I wonder if that's what God meant when he said he made us in his image.

Two expert veterans against a young naive new LDS convert ??!! Epic fail

So let's start with the last video....My question is, why was Kwaku picked to represent the LDS (no offense to Kwaku)? You have on one hand, "Dr" White (quotes are because I question all people with degrees from unaccredited universities. I understand why they refuse to accept accreditation, but without a universally accepted base line standard, we don't know what those degrees actually mean) who apparently has attended various schools and written several books. Now you pair him with some kid, and let's make no mistake about it....he is a kid, who either is a recent grad of BYU or still a student. Seems a bit of a well, set up, if you will. An author/"Dr" vs a kid with a wacky KZfaq channel that tries mostly to explain Mormon culture. I don't think it would have been that difficult to pull up any of the BYU professor rosters and found someone of the LDS faith willing to talk. A small search would have produced many with their own PhD degrees from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc, etc who may have been a little more interesting to talk with.

I heard one of the Latter Day Saints say all the apostles died... According to D&C 7, the apostle John is still alive. So I'm guessing he never read that part of Doctrine and Covenants.

Hi guys cld u pls address the archeological evidence he quoted to support his stance on d viability of Mormonism ?

I found it interesting that he accused our brothers of using a European interpretation (don’t remember the EXACT wording) but those Europeans interpreters if you want to call them that based themselves on historic interpretation which was explicitly middle eastern/African/near eastern

Someone really should write a Kwaku haiku. :)

Could you guys PLEASE answer these . Is the clip at the beginning saying, “Non rockaboatus” lol? And where is that clip from?

I've used the example of solid, liquid and vapor water to show categories, but not the Triune God. The 3 phases of water are the same in chemical composition but different in phase. Since Mormons often don't understand categories, this can be useful to show that some things can be the same in one category and different in another category without causing a contradiction. The 3 phases of water is not a good analogue for the Triune God, however. Teaching them about categories helps them to understand that having a God who is 1 in being (1st category: being/essence) and 3 in persons (2nd category: persons) does not cause a logical or mathematical contradiction (as Kwaku attempted to prove).

They showed an add for mormons before this video played. lol.

April showers bring May flowers, and May flowers bring pilgrims.

Psalms83:18KKB"That men may know that thou,whose name ALONE is JEHOVAH,art the MOST HIGH over all the earth." Note please there is but one named JEHOVAH. Note also that this one is the MOST HIGH. Therefore if your God is associated with two equals he is not JEHOVAH.

I had a hard time with this debate because no one would let the other answer completely without interrupting them. And that was on both sides. Next debate should have some kind of moderator that permits equal time. That being said, I applaud you for your patience. Keep on defending the gospel while helps equips the rest of us to do the same.

Kwaku made many assertions with a lot of confidence, but no evidence. He would continually assert there was so much proof for his position, but not actually provide it beyond vague references. Unfortunately, this technique actually sways many uninformed people. It's a favorite technique of conmen to try and groom potential victims. After Kwaku's self-professed lack of a solid theological upbringing it is no surprise he was so easily swayed to the LDS church.

Does this video ever start?

Around 44:45 they discuss how modalism. I agree that modalism is wrong, then they go on to say that we should never use an earthly example to try to explain the tri-unity on God. I have an example that I was given & I want advice as to whether or not I should use it. I heard a minister say that this example is limited in that the difference between God & humans is that he always existed but the analogy is this " In a Family you can have a Husband , a wife & children even though there is more than one person, they make up ONE FAMILY ". since the "i-m" on the word elohim is plural in hebrew it seemed to make pretty good sense when I heard that example.

Starts @ 4:10

Jeff, I think it's important to note that not only did you not get a chance to discuss Psalm 82 (which I was disappointed about) but if I recall correctly, Kwaku was one breath from starting to read Psalm 82 and he suddenly started a rabbit hole off into another subject. He never even read the psalm that he was so confident supported his view!

John8:50KJV" And I seek not mine own glory,there is one that seeketh and judgeth." Either Jesus went about attempting to persuade his fellow Jews that he was the God of Israel or he did not seek his own glory the both things could not be simultaneously true I choose to take my Lord at his word.

“Logos” is the logic of God. The scripture reveals the mind of God, and we must use the worldview of God to understand Him. QUACKU does not understand the epistemology of propositional revelation.

Jeff and team, here's the Talmage exegesis of Psalm 82:6 that you reference in passing in this video: “Divinely Appointed Judges Called 'Gods.' - In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called 'gods.' To this scripture the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon’s porch. Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted title 'gods.' Compare the similar appellation applied to Moses (Ex. 4:16; 7:1). Jesus Christ possessed divine authorization, not through the word of God transmitted to Him by man, but as an inherent attribute. The inconsistency of calling human judges 'gods,' and of ascribing blasphemy to the Christ who called Himself the Son of God, would have been apparent to the Jews but for their sin darkened minds.” -- James Talmage, "Jesus the Christ", p. 501; www.lds.org/manual/jesus-the-christ/chapter-28?lang=eng

There’s 200 religions. Need more debates

Jeff, would it be biblical to compare the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to mind, body, and soul unrestricted by space, time and matter?

Through FaceBook's non profit fundraiser I wanted to support #EndAbortionNow but couldn't find it. Any recommendations?

5:32 start

When he started proseltyzing near the end of the show, that told me much about his lack of spiritual maturity and underlying disrespect.

Kwaku's mathematics regarding the Trinity are wrong. He says 1+1+1=3, when actually the correct formula is 1x1x1=1

Mormons can't have math in their worldview? way over my head. I'd love to hear more about this. side note: have you heard of the triple point? the only usuful thing i took out of high school chemistry because it helped me somewhat wrap my head around the trinity.

Dr. White has studied (I thought) the archeology of the Bible, why didnt he refute some of the statements on the reliability of scripture when the guest said it had been corrupted ?

That was set up from the beginning. Just being overbearing does not make you right.

When you consider Mormon Jesus is actually Lucifer then it all makes sense. The pieces fit.

4:12 to skip the silence at the beginning.

Kwaku really doesn't say anything substantial!

This guy has a fundamental misunderstanding of most of the verses he cites. He interprets them how he needs in order for his ideology to be seen as favorable. But upon diving into the text surrounding his statements and viewing other similar verses or circumstances its obvious he's not seeing the whole picture. Therefore, take what he says with a grain of salt and look into things yourself. I've disproved most of what he's said and I'm only 30 min in.

I never have had a problem with the trinity! I don't know why people battle with that! It's all through scripture! I think when one is born again it all makes sense!

I would really like to see you guys interact with The Bible Project and their latest series of podcasts on God and gods. It would be fantastic if you all would shed some light on if they're on point or if they're off. They made some of the same claims that the young Mormon made about the isrealites not necessarily being monotheists in belief but only have a covenant with one God.

I watched the debate and it was great, although terribly one-sided. Quaco provided No real evidence, contradicted himself and flat out, denied the truth.

God is Spirit And Truth.

why is the volume so high :,((

The trinity is talking about the The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost. John 1 teaches us all and mathematics do explain it. So we read that John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and Word was God (Word=God)." Then in John 1:14 it states that And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, fully of grace and truth (Word=God=Jesus). Isaiah 7:14 states The Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son and shall call his name Immanuel." Immanuel means "God with us". Immanuel was changed into Jesus, after further research, letting us know that it represent Jehovah's salvation...John 14:26 states "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send [in my name] he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (In his name, which is Jesus, Word=God=Jesus=Holy Ghost). Holy Ghost occurred after the death of Jesus. John 10:30 states "I and my Father are one." Enough said out of the mouth of Christ. KJV version

So if the trinity is 3 separate persons, but one Being, how is a perfect relationship different than that? The difference between ‘person’ and ‘being’ seems really difficult to make clear to the average person. If by definition there is nothing like God, how do you explain it to somebody in a simple to understand way?

At 1John1:1 the word is spoken of as existing from 'apo' the beginning. Clearly proving that the word has a beginning. Proverbs8:22-30 refers to the beginning of the logos (logic) here called wisdom.

Yes, I haven’t not seen a lot of debates with Jehovah’s Witnesses with Dr James Whites in a long time. I have friends that are in this cult and it just as frustrating to have a dialogue with them just as I seat here watching the content with the Mormons. What you think Jeff could we walk through the cults together to get a better understanding?

suggestion. Invite Fr. Kallistos Ware for a chat. The goal is one holy Catholic and apostolic church. If the goal is eventually for mankind to come back together into Christ's Church, then it is time to look to the original Church and hash out the differences to bring us all back to His Church. Orthodoxy is the root, Christianity is the whole tree. God is the Creator of that tree.

You all at Apologia (Bible?) (Community?) (Grace?) Church and Pre-Born are the greatest abortion ministries extant. I enjoy that so very much Also, thanks Reverend Durbin for taking on Mormonism. Reverend John MacArthur, Junior has said, it's "snatching a branch from the burning."

If you think Brigham was racist just look into Christian Discovery Doctrine. Manifest Destiny. Doctrine. Trinity is Pagan.

Kwaku won the debate easily and was simply more humble and sincere. The other panelists proved the Great Apostasy in their failed attempts to explain an immaterial, timeless, spaceless, 3 distinct yet not different, incoherent mess of notion of god. The other panelists topped it off by saying their god is the author of all evil and sin. The other panelists glory in talking up their own egos and ability to cite verse numbers or years of study rather than make a clear case in clear language for their beliefs. Kwaku presented several LOGICAL problems with their worldview that they never answered. Amazing.

king of the dad jokes 🤣

Kwaku comes across as a yapping chihuahua attacking two pit bulls.. no contest

audio issues

As per the closing statement in this video, will Jeff/Apologia be taking the video down given the demonstrably false statement after the 37:00 mark that the 2nd century Christians believed the same thing about predestination that the Reformers did? E.g., “But neither do we affirm that it is by fate that people do what they do, or suffer what they suffer, but that each by free choice acts rightly or sins . . . . But since God made the race of angels and men in the beginning with free will, in eternal fire they will justly suffer the punishment of whatever sins they have committed. And this is the nature of all that is made-to be capable of vice and virtue. For neither would any of them be praiseworthy unless there was also power to turn to both.” (Justin Martyr, ca. 155, 'Second Apology' 7, in 'Ancient Christian Writers' 56:78-79) “And just as with men who have power to choose good or evil-for you would not honour the virtuous and punish evildoers if vice and virtue were not within their free choice-some are found zealous for what they are entrusted with by you, and others remiss, so it is with these angels too: some remained at the task for which they were created and to which they were appointed by God (for they had received free will from God), while others acted wantonly towards their own nature and their charge” (Athenagoras, ca. 177, 'Embassy for the Christians' 24, in 'Ancient Christian Writers' 23:62) “He ‘breathed into his face the breath of life,’ [Genesis 2:7] so that the man became like God in inspiration as well as in frame. So he was free, and his own master, having been made by God in order to be master of everything on earth.” (Irenaeus, ca. 190, 'Proof of the Apostolic Preaching' 11, in 'Ancient Christian Writers' 16:54)