I don't have respect for people who lie like you, you twist everything so easily that it tells the true mental sickness that you have. Narcissism is not elect....i have no respect for someone that twists all things and crawfish around twisting and interpreting things how you want to fit your teachings..... you maneuver our doctrine and prophets and words to mix categories to make things that didn't exist, exist so you can then debunk your own interpretation.... you literally misinterpret everything mormon and then get mad when mormons say that your are misinterpreting what we believe lol..... the "classic mormons" let you be wrong and didn't correct you. Now we tell you that you are not in disagreement with us... you're in disagreement of your own interpretation of our doctrine lol, for someone that claims to be "elect"....did to miss out on the electability to interpretation lds teachings and doctrine because you have zero credibility among mormons and the only people who agree with your interpretation of our doctrine is people who do not read our doctrine lol

Good... just reaffirms that you have not read the Bible and prayed about it, rather you've let creeds tell you what the Bible says.... because the Bible clearly states that the Father created all things and all that he created is of him by him thus all angels created and beings created are created by him thus all spirits are siblings by virtue of being created by the one who created them all.

Go build 3 houses then tell me that the houses are not created by the same being.... that's what you do when you say that Lucifer (created by the Father) Jesus (created by the Father) and you (created by the Father) are not created by the same creator.

@@curtisdecker3175 the Bible clearly states that the Son created all things, not the Father. Read Colossians 1:16 "For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him". ALL "things" were created by Jesus Christ. All "things" includes Satan and the angels. In context, the text is referring to the Son, not the Father.

@@splitwindowman yes i agree that he created all things.... the son was with the Father at the time he was created all things that we would experience and know of on earth. When the Father chose Jesus, he appointed the son into the Godhead and the son created all these things. The son did not create the Father.... therefore you should be able to conclude that the son did not create all things outside of our existence, rather he created all things within this existence.... It's weird how all of you say "read the Bible" yes i do.... but i know that it's not infallible. By your own beliefs which your side claims "is in the Bible", the creator is infallible because you believe God created Adam and Eve with a plan for them to walk in the garden forever and that he did not forsee the serpent.... your own logic proves that you believe that God is not all knowing, if he was, he would've known that Adam and Eve would eat from the tree of knowledge.... in my theology, he is all knowing, and knew they would eat from it, that's why he placed it there. That's why he created them to fall so that they would die, so that they could return. You people can't get the first story right so i don't expect you to get the rest right. The first story is important to understanding the rest. If you get the first story correct then the rest will fall in line. If you get the first story wrong, then the rest can be used to fit that.

@@splitwindowman any comment why all of you Bible only people can say "the Bible says"...... which one are you talking about. There's lots and lots of Bible that say different things.

Yea and no one else teaches the Bible right except of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

@@dylanwilliams2202 lol. The best thing about this comment is I can’t tell if your serious.

@@chattown09 Exactly. Its already a sign in its own

@@chattown09 I am 100% serious. You Christians hardly teach the Bible and the gospel right. You constantly take one verse and blow it up like it is the whole message of the Bible or just not understand it well.

@@dylanwilliams2202 There is only one God. Mormonism is a lie straight from Lucifer stating you can be a God yourself one day through 'exaltation.' There are many more lies from Mormonism that go 100% against the Bible.

Praying!!!!

Thanks. Came here to do exactly what you did. (Glad you beat me to it.)

Much thanks

Thanks 🙏🏻

Thank you!

You win. Thanks!

Wow, would that not get REAL!!!!

KA,....A mormon is someone who is 100% spiritually dead and blind. No amount of debating or presenting them with Biblical truth will mean nor change a thing. The one way to easily show a mormon how wrong and lost they are is to have them try to prove/show that the earth is a spinning ball/planet. JS was 100% on board with the Godless worlds 100% fake spinning ball earth. When anyone tries to prove this manmade fraud, they will have to acknowledge that there is no proof whatsoever for the earth being a planet. They will come to find out that the reality is the earth is a flat stationary plane just as the Bible clearly tells us. One does not have to be spiritually alive to understand what the actual shape/cosmology of the earth actually is. So, when one comes to understand that the idea of the earth being a planet is a manmade fraud and JS was 100% on board with this unbiblical nonsense, they have to acknowledge that like the spinning ball earth, JS was a total fraud.

Jeff likes to say it’s important to debate in the public forum sooo let’s see if he is a man of his word

I agree.

The LDS teachings are so completely off I don’t think it’s even necessary. Don’t you agree?

Alligator got him

WHOA...I know the *JW* stance on patriotism, but they actually PASS on stopping @ your home? Kind of like garlic or a cross to ward off vampires, 'eh? ~:)

Can you give me an example of where he misinterpreted Jacob

@@thekolobsocietyof course, I’m sure there in no bias going on your part, right?

@@thekolobsociety, yet we should take your assessment to Jeff’s video seriously? Great comebacks bro

@@thekolobsociety, I try not to be, but I don’t want to discredit an entire video because I happen to disagree or because he didn’t show every second of the reaction video. And thanks! 🤗

​@@thekolobsociety Yeah, we should disregard bias people who claim "misrepresentation" but have yet to prove it.

Jacob Hansen’s video is pretty short. Just go watch it first and then come listen to the response to it. This video response is exactly that- a response- you can go look at what Jeff’s responding to for better reference. This is already over an hour- he can’t make half his own video simply playing Jacob’s video.

@@thekolobsociety you’re right. He spent 1 hr and 20 min not meaningfully responding to this other guys 6 min video. 😂😂. Ok.

​@@thekolobsociety He's not engaging him. He's correcting him. Jacob needs to be corrected.

​@@chrissy9876 Jeff is correcting Jacob.

@@thekolobsociety Before I answer you, have you watched it?

Correct.

That would be great

I can't wait

I doubt that very much.

@@thekolobsociety you misspelled Jeff knows Jacob wouldn't stand a chance

@@thekolobsociety Thanks Hayden.

So you are likening Joseph Smith to that of Jesus Christ?

@@RayRey777 D&C 1:37 “…whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.” Joseph Smith is a prophet, God’s mouthpiece and servant whom God uses to conduct his work. Their words are the same. So yeah, I better be able to liken the teachings of one unto the other. If they weren’t comparable then that’s a textbook false prophet.

The sad thing is that you wish not to ponder over things that are true, you have your mind set because of the indoctrination. Why do you wish to believe in a man that has changed his mind about the deity of God from what he said was in his first vision. Do you believe that when God gave Joseph his first vision that God changed His mind and made a mistake. Do you really believe God would tell Joseph something and then change His mind. I know this much that God does not change His mind because He tells us that He is unchanging. He is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever. Are you saying God made a mistake or are you saying Joseph made the mistake. Joseph said in his first vision, Alma Pg 254 “arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God,” Now he says that God is not a Triune God but that He is three separate beings you now believe that God has flesh and bones and that Jesus was born to God and that the Holy Ghost is a separate being. Show me one verse in God's Word the Bible that has been corrupted. Tell me if God was once a man then where did the first God come from to start Creation? If man became a god, then where did first man come from?

​@@robertrlkatz6890 Same old copy-paste anti-Mormon stock response we’ve all seen a hundred times before. Sorry, but I’m not indoctrinated, I’ve seriously studied the history and theology of Mormonism for the better part of a decade. First off, the first vision accounts are compatible: m.kzfaq.info/get/bejne/idehia2E252piqs.html Second, that quote you give isn’t from the 1st vision, it’s from Alma 11 (it’s not even on page 254 either). And that quote isn’t teaching trinitarianism anyway. The hallmark of trinitarianism is homoousia, which is not taught here. The Latter-day Saint model of the Godhead still teaches that the three members are One Eternal God, just united in persona instead of being. The speaker, Amulek, is being examined by a lawyer and is contrasting his monolatrist theology against the idolatrous polytheistic culture surrounding them. Finally, you go off on the infinite regress model, which isn’t even official doctrine. It’s a speculative theory, largely held by laymen. It’s akin to making fun of people for believing the forbidden fruit is an apple, when we never claimed it was in the first place. As for showing one verse that’s been corrupted, that’s actually very, very easy to do. We have thousands of biblical manuscripts and there are discrepancies in all of them. For example, the women caught in Adultery probably a completely made up story, look it up. Here’s a corruption that we discovered from the Dead Sea scrolls, meaning that during the thousands of years before we found it, people were being deceived. Deuteronomy 32:8-9 “When Elyon divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the -children of Israel- / *Sons of God.* For YHWH’s portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.” The change from Sons of God to Children of Israel is an important one. Children of Israel makes the passage confusing. When the original is restored, it makes sense. This passage is saying that the head god Elyon gave a kingdom to each of his children, the gods. And Elyon’s son YHWH (Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament who spoke to Moses) received the children of Jacob as his inheritance. This has massive implications. For example, it shows that the Old Testament was originally polytheistic, where YHWH originally had parents and siblings, and that those siblings were the gods that ruled the other kingdoms. And this isn’t just my personal interpretation or something from Mormonism. Latter-day Saints largely use the KJV so their Bibles still contain the corrupted version, very few Latter-day Saints even know about the corrected version of this verse. I’m getting this information from reputable Biblical scholars, both atheist and Evangelical, one of whom was a professor at a southern Baptist seminary.

Sorry, friend. Perhaps you need to reread and familiarize yourself with the first vision. 1. Which church to join. 2. Join NONE of them. They are ALL wrong. 3. All their (Who? All the wrong churches) creeds are an abomination. 4. All their (Who? All the wrong churches) professors (professing the faith) are corrupt and wrong.

Furthermore, Jeff explained what Jacob does then he went point by point demonstrating it. He played every second of his video and responded to each point and demonstrated what he claimed before he played the video. Perhaps, you could actually engage with what was said rather than making accusations alone?

@@ApologiaStudios .....You didn't read what I said either, did you? You completely and utterly and entirely missed the point, just as you missed the point of precisely what Jacob was objecting to. You presume exactly what the details of the argument are rather than actually understanding what the heart of the objection is. And you presume to say Jacob lacks integrity? Sheesh

@@ApologiaStudios Bro I *am* engaging you what you said 😂😂😂 I literally pointed out in detail what what wrong with your rebuttal. I pointed out *exactly* my issue with it. And the hypocrisy is astounding: again, you started the video going off for like 10 minutes about how Jacob is a liar and dishonest and lacks integrity.... Like...accusing...instead of engaging? 😂😂 Like half of the video has basically nothing to do with what he said either...the entire tangent on the fallability of prophets has absolutely nothing to do with the content of what Jacob said....so like.... hypocrisy much? That's the whole point of my criticism dude. You're not engaging with what he said, you're name calling, going off on tangents, and strawmanning his arguments by not properly understanding what his objection was.

​@@AeliosArt Point was not missed. It was refuted.

@@thekolobsociety Man has debated Mormons for years with no coherent response from any of them yet you say he has no idea what the guy is saying. Make it make sense ty. Santa Claus being real is more believable than Mormonism no context needed.

@@thekolobsociety elaborate please?

@@thekolobsociety ''We dont hold that all Christians were or are corrupt'' ????????

@@thekolobsociety Mormons believe church was DEAD and ALL corrupt. He contradicts Mormonism lmao

Please check out, the Bible vs the book of Mormons.

@@danielwoodruff3118 did he translate the BoA from the Egyptian documents we have?

@Daniel Woodruff I've lived around Mormons my entire life. They are in a cult. The most obvious tell is that they will treat you like dirt if they can't convert you. They treat family members who leave the church even worse.

@Daniel Woodruff Thanks for the reply. Lately, I've seen a lot of Mormon apologists saying that the papyri we have weren't the ones Smith used. Once again, Mormons argue against their church.

@@danielwoodruff3118 false. The church never confirmed that the records were the ones that Smith used to translate the actual text from the Book of Abraham. Just that they were the source for some of the facsimiles. They are portions of the Book of Breathings and Book of the Dead. The “long scrolls” that the percipient witnesses stated they saw Smith using to translated the actual text were almost certainly burned in the Chicago fire. There is not room for debate on this topic but anti Mormons dishonesty overstate their one arguments and misstate the Church’s position

@@yellowblackbird9000 they weren’t. @danielwoodruff3118 misrepresented or misunderstood the evidence. The history on this is complicated but it is ultimately not controversial. Pedestrian treatment by anti Mormon apologists does not address the evidence in any way

You can always tell when an argument is weak when the best someone can do is hand wave it away as an interpretation. The professors of the sects, in other words the churches. Their creeds are an abomination. The gospel is missing plain and precious parts. Yet somehow you get a church that is not in fact being restored from this?

​@@danielomitted1867 I was not referring to the apostacy portion of the video. I was directly addressing Jeff's claim that he was not interpreting but was quoting the words of the first vision.

@@mcable217 *gives direct quote* "that's just your interpretation" 🙄

He isn't interested in understanding

@@danielomitted1867 I Jeff's original video, he interprets the word 'professors' as meaning all Christians in order to make the claim that the first vision says all Christians are corrupt. 'Professors' is referring to the preachers and pastors in this context. I know reading is hard, but try to understand what I'm saying here.

Thank you Anna! Apologia Church is founded on debate rather than understanding. They teach the Christian community that everyone needs to be equiped with skilled tongues so they can combat the issues of the world with their infallible logic and understanding. They lose humanity in their approach, trying to overwhelm people with their errors. This approach replaces God for their own understanding. For them to be good examples, they must humble themselves, recognize they are not perfect and that if they truly love Jesus , they would keep his Commandments of loving others as themselves. This isn't done by slandering or contending. This is done by humility and respect which those who get God's Commandments are striving to do every day despite what others may say.

Did you say "contention is of the devil"? Have you actually read the New Testament 🤔? Are you aware the Apostles contended with false doctrines?

I’m aware this is an old comment, but I just have to say that the New Testament writers and apostles would have strongly disagreed with you. There is a reason the apostles were all martyred. They were challenging other religions of the time. This is an issue of salvation meaning it is more important than political issues.

I know right? Every other christian believes in a pagan and unbiblical version of God and Jesus Christ made popular by the christian creeds, this 1 entity in 3 personages or this 3 entity in 1 personage thing. They believe they are 3 in one and the same but also separate and distinct but also the same yet not also. God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) and that is confusing and illogical. The triune god is a false god, how do people not see the paganism in that belief? There is no verse in the bible to back up that pagan belief and to explain it you have to use sources that came centuries later.

@@dylanwilliams2202 There are in fact ample passages that prove this "pagan" belief (which is actually orthodox and biblical). Although it is not necessarily a doctrine that can be fully understood in human terms, that is not a problem. For God is God, and we are not. We are by our nature unable to grasp all aspects of the greatness of the infinite God. Let's take a look at one passage: John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." What we can see in this passage is that the Word is indicated as a separate, divine person identified as God. Note, however, that God is indicated as a distinct person as well ("with God"). In this passage then we can see the divine relationship in that the Son shares in the being of God. He is not a separate God (for that would be polytheism), and is not a created being (was with God in the beginning - John 1:2). The only proper interpretation of this passage is that the Word is God and is a person within the Trinity. This is further played out throughout the gospel of John (I say gospel of John purely because I did an entire study on the Trinity in John), where Jesus speaks of His relationship to the Father as them being distinct persons yet both being of the same being - God.

​@@dylanwilliams2202 it's funny how people know the man made thousands of other gods, and the people believed in them just as much as you do yours. Yet you believe your god is the one true God, just like they believed their god was the one true god

@@s2eforme Buddy, John 1:1 doesn't not at all *describe* your pagan belief nor does it support it. No where in that verse or anywhere else in John or the Bible does it say that God and Jesus Christ are distinct but the same. You cannot explain your pagan belief with the Bible alone. Jesus Christ is Lord (Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Philippians 2:11) and the Son of God (Matthew 3:17, Matthew 17:5, John 10:36), He is our mediator with God (1 Timothy 2:5), He said that God the Father is greater (John 14:28) and that God was his God (John 20:17), He wanted us to be one with Him and God as they are with each other (John 17:21-23). It is very simple, to us there is one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 8:6). Jesus Christ does the Father's will and His (Jesus Christ) will is subjected to the Father making him both the Son and the Father or one. The Father because He acts and speaks on His behalf and the son because he is the literal flesh or Son of God. This is also expressed in John 17:21-23 where Jesus says he wants us to be one with Him and the Father as they are with each other. Unless you want to say that we are going to become part of the Trinity. For John 1:1, Jesus Christ does the Father's will and His (Jesus Christ) will is subjected to the Father and has the authority to speak and act on the Father’s behalf making him the word of God. Jesus Christ is the example of the fulfillment of God’s word. Through Jesus Christ can our words both reach and be fulfilled by God (1 Timothy 2:5). When in John 1:14 the word became flesh, the Words of God took life in Jesus Christ and to show people that you can live a life free of sin through Jesus Christ being that example. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of promises made to us before the foundation of the Earth (Ephesians 1:4-5, 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2). Jesus Christ is the word and the word is God the Father because he speaks on behalf of God, the words of God made flesh, through him does communication with God exist, is the fulfillment of promises that God made from before the foundation of the Earth and is the messenger of salvation. You are polytheistic, you can try and say that you aren't because they have the same "essence" (whatever that is supposed to mean, which is not in the Bible) but that just makes you in denial.

@@AndrewL4me Doesn't matter if there are people that don't believe in Him, especially if they didn't get the chance in this life. Every knee will bow and confess Jesus is Lord (Philippians 2:10-11) on judgment day and before that day everyone who wasn't able to in this life will get a chance to accept Him gospel in the next.

It’s been a day since you commented this. Can I thank you now?

@@xxrandmlinksxxbruh2419 no

@@BryanM86 😢

​@@thekolobsociety Jeff didn't say anything about Jacon (and you by extension) that isn't true and verifiable.

Such a victim statement based on your clutched pearls opinion Apologia knows better than Jacob what he believes. You are deceived and ridiculous concerning faulty feelings your burnt bosom is going to be a contentious point Between you and the Living Angry God who will have you thrown into the lake of fire. REPENT and Cry for mercy to God, if you are allowed it will happen, otherwise crispy burnt forever.

It's better than hearing Jacob babble for several minutes. Mormon doctrine is false, Jeff has heard it already and Jeff is wielding the Sword.

That’s the Apologia Studio classic. They have to misrepresent the LDS position, otherwise their “ministry” to us wouldn’t be as popular.

Why can’t you guys admit that the burning in your bosom and praying for your special interpretation is wrong? Your profits have been proven wrong for over 150 years! In fact, all of your leaders are bunch of degenerate polygamists. We as Christians are tired of you even acting like you are the same Christians. Change your ways! Leave man’s traditions!

Your prophets are liars/con men/charlatans!

​@Anthony Ramos Thanks so much for the recommendation, I will look into it.

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I wish everyone gets rich and comfortable

Since 2018 I reached out to Mrs Sonia ,I’ve been debt free! Bought myself a car,house and an Amazon parrot☺️I love parrots

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No misinterpretation. You must have missed the whole engagement. Jeff quoted from the prophets and refuted them with Scripture. Take a listen again.

@@ApologiaStudios Jeff misinterpreted the video. Jacob was taking issue with the substitution of the word 'professors' with 'Christians.' That's where the interpretation part comes in. What did Joseph mean by the word 'professors.' Jeff either misunderstood where this interpretation was, or he was being disingenuous in his response. The first vision does not intend to say all Christians are corrupt and all Christian's hearts are far from God. That would be antithetical to Joseph's accounts of his religious upbringing and his accounts of his parents religiosity. The first vision was clearly critiquing the creeds and the preachers/pastors of Joseph's time.

He also misrepresented the argument about the gates of hell not prevailing. To say there was an apostasy and then a restoration is perfectly compatible with the scripture that says the gates of hell will not prevail. To use Jeff’s language - Jeff, “you lack integrity, sir”.

@@latterdayskeptic Just curious, are you actually James White posing as a Latter-Day Skeptic? - That's my question - small / deceptive thinking I know but I've seen it happen before.

@@ApologiaStudios K - I've listened to this now 3 times which is much much more than generous. You guys are filled with misguided hermeneutics. Beginning FROM THE ONSET with assuming a 'lie', you are abandoning capacity to receive 'the engrafted word' with 'meekness' (James 1:21). Standing forever with Daniel 2 is the interpretation of a dream that was pre-the apostasy that happened previous to Christ being born. There isn't anything amid the Great Apostasy that would submit that God, himself, would be 'destroyed'. What do you otherwise call the martyrdoms of each apostle after Christ's ascension? They were not destroyed? Misinterpretations literally all over the place. Try seeing things through a different lens. Take notes from David Alexander who runs the KZfaq Channel called "Delighting in truth and denouncing lies". Pastor for 47 years turned LDS and couldn't be happier about it.

TLA,...Well, what does a partial preterist believe?

@He Who Has Ears To Hear Let HIm Hear simple. Some, but not all prophecies of the Bible have been fulfilled. We are still waiting for Christ's final return, the resurrection on the last day, and the final judgment day. Partial preterism is simply orthodox Christianity. It only exists as a phrase mainly to describe that SOME of what is mentioned in John's Apocalypse refers to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

@@Wheatsilo ,....Well, orthodox christianity is not Christianity at all. It is the same as preterism and mormonism,... another gospel/christianity. Of course, we are waiting for Jesus's return, that is the last day as well as judgement day. This is nothing more than basic Christianity.

@@hewhohasearstohearlethimhe9509 I'm sorry. I literally have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.

@@Wheatsilo ,...What I said was orthodoxy is not Christianity, and basic Biblical understanding is that Jesus has yet to return, that we have yet to come to the last day, that is judgement day. This has nothing to do with orthodoxy nor preterism that like mormonism is all another manmade religion. You are taking a couple Basic Biblical truths and calling it something you want to identify with like partial preterism, or orthodoxy. This is what the mormons and all false manmade denominations/religions do. They add a couple Biblical truths to a bunch of unbiblical nonsense and call it a denomination/religion.

Apologia studios is not honest. Lol what part of the first 3 chapters went against your soul? "Did he not say he saw God and Jesus. Did not God tell Moses no man can live and see me. Did God change?" No, there are many places in the Bible where someone sees God and lives. Acts 7:55-56 "But filled with the Holy Spirit, he gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” No one can see God and live if not for the priesthood D&C 84:20-24.

Read the Bible and know the Bible. Then, you will have plenty of confidence to face the twisting of it. I appreciate Apologia very much, but as with any great teachers do not let them replace your scripture reading. People tend to get into an arguement and regurgitate what they have heard said instead of knowing it for themselves. Unfortunately, Mormons are deeply committed to their belief and are convinced we are the ones deceived. Love them well by knowing the Bible well first and treating them with respect. Only the Holy Spirit can change a soul. We can be the testaments to that change and point to the Truth. I hope Mormons see the sincerity in Jeff when he says he cares for their souls. He does a wonderful job at keeping calm and knowing scripture. With the above comment, none of them say the person saw God. The "glory of God" is not God himself. Seeing that Christ is at His right hand also is not God himself. Be careful how you read. I'm not saying it was intentional, but it isn't accurate.

@@lauriewilliamson4758 "The "glory of God" is not God himself. Seeing that Christ is at His right hand also is not God himself." Lol so Seeing the Glory of God is not seeing God? Seeing Jesus at the right Hand of God is not seeing God? It was intentional because it is accurate. What else would the glory of God be? But fine then, Good luck explaining these. Genesis 32:30 "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: *for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."* Exodus 24:10-11 "10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: *also they saw God,* and did eat and drink." Exodus 33:11 "And *the Lord spake unto Moses face to face,* as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle." Numbers 12:5-8 "And *the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle,* and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth. 6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. 7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. 8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and *the similitude of the Lord shall he behold:* wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses? 1 Kings 9:2 "That *the Lord appeared to Solomon the second time,* as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon." "Unfortunately, Mormons are deeply committed to their belief and are convinced we are the ones deceived." Because you are deceived. I have won many arguments because I know the scripture and history very well and the truth always prevails. Apologia are not great teachers because they lie about us all the time. They do not know the Bible at all and apparently neither do you. Jeff is not sincere nor does he know the scriptures. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the bible better than any other denomination. Join God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and join their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you.

@@dylanwilliams2202 Where is the archeological evidence of your Mormon civilization?

@@sweatt4237 At the time of Joseph Smith, the ancient inhabitants of the Americas were believed to be savage, barbaric, and uncivilized people, without trade, commerce, education, or metropolitan cities. In 2018 with the LIDAR System it was discovered that Mesoamerica has cities and large urban areas that have yet to be explored and that date to the right time for the Book of Mormon where millions of people lived in, just like the Book of Mormon says. In the Book of Mormon it says that some cities were sunk in water (3 Nephi 9:7). There is a lake in Guatemala, Lake Atitlan, where Archeologists actually discovered a city that was buried under the water that they called Samabaj. And they’ve actually gone in and found pottery from this and it’s dated to the pre-Classic period, which is 600 BC to 250 AD.

Lol. I know right. Jeff apparently really does not pay attention well. He really misunderstood what I was saying in the video because when he says church and I say church we are not describing the same thing. But I don’t get the impression Jeff is trying to engage with my actual arguments.

For real! Lame ad hominem attack masked as a rebuttal.

​@Jacob H you didn't say anything that could be mistaken by an intelligent person as an argument.

Is that the one where Jacob and Hayden spent the entire debate talking about Anne Frank and then said Sola Scriptura can't be true because people misinterpret Scripture, but then they argued that personal revelation from God is the ultimate authority but we can misinterpret that revelation? 😂😂😂😂😂

@@hansenjacob1986 I emailed you. Dunno if you got it.

Do you lack all self awareness or merely awareness of mormon apologists?

@@shane7548 Jacob is his brother. I suspect there might be some innate bias here.

@@BrendonKing you should also mention that I am anti-Mormon. So no, I am not unaware of Mormon apologists.

@@shane7548 Jeff Durban did terrible on this one

​@@latterdayskepticEnough of you.

Awe yes, we are the ones to misrepresent because we don't know what we teach or what our own writings say.

@@dylanwilliams2202 I’m speaking about the person who made the video, and those who argue like him. I have no clue who you are.

@@tylerbuckner3750 Jeff or Jacob? I am a Latter Day Saint and therefore will be representing that position

@@dylanwilliams2202 Jacob, and those who argue like him. Yes, there are plenty of Mormons like Jacob who can't even honestly represent their own religion while trying to argue against Christianity. It becomes a self-defeating endeavor.

@@tylerbuckner3750 Alright so I was right. Jacob does and did accurately represent us and what we believe, Jeff took one sound bite and created a strawman argument from it. Had he kept going for 10 more seconds then Jacob would have said that the professors were the people who made the creeds and not christians in general, not that there wasn't an apostasy. Jacob continues and says that since Jeff is a protestant then he also believes in it because the protestant movement was started by Martin Luther and many more people followed. Jeff sitting there and quoting our Prophets that are reiterating our belief there was an apostasy and saying Jacob doesn't believe in it and know our beliefs is a lie and a strawman argument against what Jacob really said. I recommend you watch Jacobs video to really see what was said, not Jeff's misrepresentation of it.

I have watched several. He seems to be emotionally unstable . My opinion. Looking for attention. Has a strange persona

Can't trust the biblical prophets, can't trust the modern prophets, can't trust scripture, can't trust your interpretation if it clashes with modern prophets... who I can't trust. Honestly IDK what the selling point of Mormonism is at this point.

​@@thekolobsociety "please answer coherently." This is coming from a guy who gave one of the most incoherent arguments I've ever heard while trying to argue against Sola Scriptura.

@@thekolobsociety You and Jacob argued that Sola Scriptura isn't true because Anne Frank and that people can misinterpret Scripture. Then you said the ultimate authority is God giving you personal revelation but you can misinterpret that revelation. Incoherent.

@Hayden 2 accounts? Paranoid much? Your argument against their concept of authority was something you accepted in your concept of authority. This is special pleading. If you are going to assert that the final authority is fallible, then I can't take your authority seriously.

@@thekolobsociety I accept the Bible is the Word of God, that God is fully capable of preserving His own word AND keeping His promise when He says that heaven and earth will pass away but His words will never pass away. Furthermore we have over 5500 manuscripts in the koine Greek from the 1st century for the New Testament ALONE that confirm that what we have in our modern translations are true and accurate to what the original authors wrote and continually find new manuscripts that support the original authorship. If you put Joseph smiths “revelation” through the same textual scrutiny you put the old and New Testament through it falls unbelievably flat and you’d see that there are 1,000s of errors from the first versions to what the LDS writings say now that aren’t just minor punctuation and spelling errors but massive doctrinal errors and omissions.

Please prove that claim.

prove that claim

How about misrepresenting his claim about the gates of hell? To say that the church fell into apostasy and then was restored is not the same as saying that the gates of hell did prevail. Jeff talking about the apostasy is irrelevant when there is a restoration. Either Jeff cannot understand this level of nuance or he is intentionally misrepresenting. You can decide.

@The truth of Christ Always prevails good point. Always love when Christians avoid the argument and instead make baseless claim.

@@ApologiaStudios this is literally Jacob. He clearly does not understand what I mean when I say church vs when he says church. In addition I 100% agree we are not a reformation. And I have no interest in us being like other christians in matters of doctrine. I agree that all Christian creeds and professors are corrupt (in doctrine) but he is trying to create the impression we believe they are evil and of the church of the devil. We believe you all are fellow christians but we don’t believe you have entered into the needed covenants of salvation to be saved. Jeff is not talking the time to understand what I mean by the words I use and assumes he knows what I mean by “church” and “apostasy” and “restoration”. I am sure we disagree on a lot, but let’s get clear so we can actually hit the disagreements and not simply talk past each other.

As much as I dislike Durbin, he is infinitely smarter and more eloquent than Paul Gee.

NO! It's not wasted. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. James 5:16 I pray for that daily. A man in the Bible asked Jesus to speak the words and knew that his family member would be healed. The battle is not of flesh and blood. You don't have to physically be somewhere to intercede for someone and fight the good fight of faith.

Wow y'all are sure nice. Seems to me it's less about defending your faith and more about "a win". It's my first time even hearing or knowing about this, but, every comment I've read defending this Jacob guy seems like it's just the need for a win, and nothing about faith at all.

@@crystalparker2542 I’d actually prefer he debates Daniel Peterson or Robert Boylan. We consider these topics to be of most importance. And Jeff Durbin is falsely characterizing our beliefs. The reason why a debate is helpful is that both parties can be called out immediately if they’re lying, and both sides can speak for themselves in real time. Get it? But to your point, yes, we all should want the TRUTH to prevail (or “win” as you put it)

One thing that you cannot get away from is the fact that you have to earn your salvation in Mormonism

@@christianbenavides4852 bahaha 🤣 you “earn” it in “Mormonism” to the exact same extent you “earn” it in the Bible: through faith in Christ. Who do you think is saved and why do you disagree with the Christian message?

@@raulofmustachio3d Christians are saved by grace. Not saved by grace after all you can do. Isn’t the third article of faith working for your salvation? And bro I was Mormon lol until I found out a lot of stuff was false. I won’t sit and argue with a Mormon lol 😂

Durbin is a false teacher. He's a catholic heretic.

At first take, without listening to both videos again, I'd agree with you about the category error. But saying someone is not a true Christian because they may not repent of what you determine is sin is also a category error. Membership in the Christian faith is based on beliefs not lack of one particular action, especially when the accusation is not brought by a member of that faith. You already know that anyway I think. 🙂 I just decided to be annoying and bring it up. I'm guessing that, to use more accurate language, you mean he will look like a hypocrite, if he doesn't apologize.

@@valeried7210 I appreciate the feedback but I think you’re making a slight mistake. I am saying “if you actually are a Christian, then you have a moral obligation to apologize for bearing false witness”. I am not saying that you’re not a true Christian if you don’t.

@@latterdayskeptic ok. I can see that. This is why communication and being charitable is good. 🙂

The Mormon doctrine is a false doctrine. Claiming Lucifer is Jesus Brother, Man can become a god, you can be baptized for the dead, there is no hell, And Jesus isn’t the One True and ONLY LIVING GOD. You are wrong and you need to repent and Believe The True Gospel. @latterdayskeptic

That, or maybe the time is far past for petty sectarian squabbles. The evil in this world today should be uniting all Christians.

🎯

You need to learn the essentials and non essentials of the Christian faith. Protestants agree on the the essentials and have liberty to disagree on the non essentials. Mormons and Catholics disagree with Protestants on the essentials. That’s why we say they are false prophets. God bless on your journey

​@@chattown09 Essentials from protestant Christianity is as follows: Trinity trumps the Bible. Argue with everyone that doesn't interpret the Bible as you do. You're saved until I decide you're not by my interpretation of scripture. Jesus grace is not sufficient for Mormons Catholics, Jews, or JWs because they were duped into reading the Bible wrong. Nonessentials: You can do whatever you want that doesn't go against the essentials. Including Drink, sleep with people, slander, treat others poorly, gamble, smoke, curse, and not pray or pay tithing. Cause you know, we only human right and Jesus paid for that so you're good. And here you are wondering why GOD, not Joseph, said these creeds were an abomination? Just look around. What kingdom are you building?

@ Justme. I'm not sure who you have been talking to but you are wrong about the LDS church. I could go over everything individually but you wouldn't believe me anyway. The LDS church hasn't changed a whole lot. If you read the book of mormon you would understand. My biggest problem with people against the LDS church is they never have anything better to offer. It's all about how you interpret scripture. There are so many Bibles, different translations etc. That are contradictory. That's why I choose to follow modern day prophets.

​@@dwRS1 So you follow white, racist, leaders who are liars and frauds. Very interesting. Yeah buddy that makes sense! 😅

DW I never met a member that believed God has intercourse with Mary to produce Jesus 😮🤯

He would know all about bad ideas.

@@BrendonKing ya daim right hope the mormon learns about wat his idea was

@@BrendonKing lol Jacob has invited Jeff to debate him… yea looks like Jeff doesn’t want to respond to Jacobs challenge I mean Jeff is known for traveling hours to go to random people at a temple and tell them they were predestined to be a Mormon now they need to convert. But yet he can’t go out and debate jacob why is that you think?

What do you believe? If you believe that Jesus Christ is the Way, Truth, and Life and like John says was with God and IS GOD…then we know you have the Truth. If you believe in the Book of Mormon, we Christians know that you ARE DECEIVED by FALSE PROPHETS.

*There is NO Middle Ground…you CANNOT believe in the Jo Smith fairytales and call yourself a Christian who believes in the Messiah/Savior/Mediator of the Holy Bible. It is 1 or the other.

He was just showing what’s in your official dogmas and website. That’s not fair? You’re being disingenuous.

You can't even tell us what you believe. It changes based on your whims.

@@BrendonKing Incorrect. We believe in Jesus Christ our savior and mediator. Yeshua the son of God is also God himself, John tells us this. We believe in Jesus Christ and his blood atonement being crucified and resurrected three days later. Only his blood saves us. Jews and gentiles are coming together as the body of Christ. That’s what the Bible teaches. We don’t trust any other blasphemies or false prophets like the Book of Mormon or its founders/leaders. That’s what we believe.

Lol wut?

@@chemnitzfan654 Interesting the life of Christian Churches.

@@DRT279 Nothing you said was true so it can be disregarded. The real question I have is why is the Mormon cult so tiny if it is the true restored gospel?

@@chemnitzfan654 Why is the Mormon church growing while others are shrinking should be your question. You could say the same about Christ while he was on earth. Why didn’t everyone convert? BTW everything I said is true.

@Jett Katz Nope. Nothing you said is true. The LDS isn't growing. It's shrinking, but the church fudges the numbers and refuses to let people resign. Mormons claim 16,000,000 members. In terms of practicing Mormons, it isn't even a third of that. But even 16 million is two one hundredths of a percent of the people on earth right now. Not to mention the billions who lived while the gospel was gone from the earth and had no chance to be saved. The LDS church will die in the next 100 years.

There is no "Church of Ladder Day Saints." It is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you are going to try and bash us then at least spell our name right.

@@dylanwilliams2202 I’d rather not put the name of Jesus Christ on a deprived polytheistic cult that is inconsistent with history, geography and context.

@@dylanwilliams2202 I don’t harbor any hate towards Mormons heck, a good childhood friend of mine is mormon and is currently on his mission. I only oppose the Mormon beliefs and ideologies a lot of Mormons tend to be pretty nice people.

@@chuganoga1908 If you are going to oppose us at a theological level then at least get our name right. Out of Curiosity, where is your friend at?

@@dylanwilliams2202 I think he was in Utah last I heard from him but im sure he’s in another state by now. Think he had a year left or so I should try and check in with him now that you mention it.

Look up "thoughtful saints jeff durbin" and you will find it. I would post the links but youtube hates links.

@@dylanwilliams2202 Thank you.

I’m always fascinated to learn of Mormons who downgrade to Protestantism. Most become atheists. At least you still believe in God I guess.

@@raulofmustachio3d sad truth yes many mormons stop believing in God after Mormonism it's kind of betrayal of trust. To tell you the truth even when I was mormon I believe in the Trinity. Its took 7 years of research and a long journey. Like the road to Damascus and my eyes was open.

Funny, because as a Mormon ex-evangelical, I felt the opposite. It was just the same tired lies and half-truths.

@@ericwolford5685 how long are you a Mormon? Right about the half truth though because missionary never speak the whole truth when they come to my house teaching me.

@@gospeltruthsearcher3220 15 years and never been happier.

He read them......

Hallelujah! Getting out of the Catholic Church is something that we pray for all the time for our friends and family to see! Following the traditions of man Catholics worship…instead of the traditions of God. God bless you.

Telling someone they are wrong is loving, if you actually believe it. Jeff goes to great lengths and sacrifices to share the gospel with false believers. So you’re either lying or ignorant of his work.

​​@@chattown09 OK let me love you now and say that your faith is an abomination. It was created by Satan and his angels and anyone who believes in it will only get you and your family eternal damnation and misery for all of their existence. Saying otherwise is just a practice of being smug and deceptive and you would be spitting in Jesus's face by the mere thought of it. How loved did you feel? Let me know if you want me to tell you more loving words, I have so much love to give, I think it should be a sin for loving you that much when I don't even know you.

Jacob’s channel literally posted three videos doing the same thing….attempting to refute.

​​@@texnewmexneenpeacemaking is about persuasion, not cowardice, or to be spineless. To refute bad ideas is to present information with the goal to persuade. Two things can be true at the same time. Yes both Jeff and Jacob refute ideas. Jeff's basis for refuting is founded in hate, whereas, Jacob's refutation is not.

@@stephaniewilliamson4611 Agreed until you got to where you accuse Jeff of acting in hate. Not true. He’s explained before that he had an LDS friend in high school which led him to look into the beliefs and he has great love for the LDS people and many LDS friends.

@@texnewmexneen I and other LDS people do not feel any love from him. We feel hate and contempt from him. He has openly said to Kwaku in a debate he abhors our church. We consider him anti mormon. Hard to claim love to a people when you have throughly conceived them you hate them.

@@stephaniewilliamson4611 I watched the debate with Kwaku and many others and he does not say that…quite the opposite. I know you consider him anti…because he takes position against your beliefs, but you’d be hard pressed to give specifics on where you base that.

​@@thekolobsociety He already risked his reputation with this video

are you delusional. You are absolutely calling your previous prophets LIARS. Good grief it is your history. Yall can play on words if you want, your intelligence is hugely questionable.

Exactly. If they are just another denomination, why are they trying to evangelize us?

@@theworldisharvested Because to put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. There are many things that are taught in our Church that adds clarity to everything taught in the Bible and/or more information about God and Jesus Christ and their gospel. An example being why God created us in the first place and why the fall happened but there are many more things. Why would you reject more of God's gospel? Plus you don't have the proper authority to act and do things in God's name to make a covenant relationship with God like baptism or giving the holy ghost among all the other things we do.

@Dylan Williams Joseph Smith was either a lying scam artist or was demon possessed. He's now burning in hell for his false gospel. Repent and turn to the true Christ or you will also face the same judgement.

@@dylanwilliams2202 Mormonism is not GOD'S gospel as it contradicts Jesus's own words and teachings. Christians reject Mormonism for the same reason they reject Islam, because it is evidentially false.

@@war13death _" Mormonism is not GOD'S gospel"_ Yes it is. _" it contradicts Jesus's own words and teachings."_ No it doesn't. Only someone who either doesn't know the Bible nor knows what we teach would say that, based off of my own personal experience of you all, it both.

I bet you $5 thank Jeff won’t have the kahuna’s to accept that 🤣

@@MightyChange22 I’ll add another 5 bucks lol Jeff only talks to random people at the temple lol

@@mickski548 right 😂🤣

What is wrong with them? I seriously have no idea what all these different churches teach claiming to be Christian

​@@lefthandedfork3337There's nothing wrong with them. I'm SDA convert so I might be biased 😅. To be honest though, we do have plenty of problems.

Here's why it's different: The accounts of Judas' death are given by different people - much like eyewitness accounts taken by police officers. They do not contradict one another, they do show that different elements of Judas' death stuck out in importance differently to the two authors, but can both be true. All of Joseph's accounts are from Joseph. And contradict each other significantly, and cannot all (about 9 versions, right?) be true. Not only that, Joseph's account disagree with scripture - no one has seen Fod, and God does not have a body of flesh and bones. The accounts of judas' death in no way contradict other scripture.

Just by looking at your comment history, you are absolutely suffering from some kind of hysteria. You’re terminally online bro

Lol Jacob called Jeff out and Jeff won’t debate him lol

Calvinism they believe god predestined everything and that Mormons we’re predestined become Mormons and Hitler was predestined to kill 6 million Jews

What about all yours? Which LDS are you?

"Especially because it seems to me their system teaches them to cherrypick and NOT study context." LOL You are joking right? That is literally all you people do. In fact, I beat *you* in an argument because you cherrypick a verse and try and twist it to your theology despite there being another verse that contradicts what you are saying.

@@dylanwilliams2202 which argument did you win? Keep in mind I had to tell a missionary earlier this week that Yahweh and Jehovah meant the same thing after I asked him about the name, because the guy thought that Yahweh Elohim in the OT was Heavenly Father and Jehovah was Jesus. Sigh. Then I gave him like 8 passages to show that the Father definitively speaks as Yahweh in the OT because Yahweh is different than the Son or the Messiah in those passages. Then he messaged me that he found out I was right about Yahweh and Jehovah were the same. He was more Trinitarian than he knew. So I think I have a leg to stand on that LDS aren't comprehensively taught doctrine. I tried to look up what LDS thought about 2 Thessalonians 2:4 but I couldn't find anything on the website that provided context for the first 3 verses after searching for a while.

Seems like we probably don't even agree on Mormonism...but that was my biggest gripe with the video. There's a way to respectfully disagree.

​@@valeried7210 And I'm sorry about that interaction with the missionary 😅 Yeah Yahweh and Jehovah are the same. I think some missionaries overstate the depth of their knowledge. At the same time, I don't think missionaries (or any disciple of Christ, LDS or not) should have to be fully theologically studied for the gospel to have effect. Much of the point of young men and women being sent to preach is because the Gospel should be simple. Not that these questions or issues aren't important, but I think those details are a little out of their scope. If you have more detailed questions about LDS doctrine I'd be more than happy to answer. Not even to convince you or debate anything, but to share a somewhat more studied perspective. Appreciate the candor of your comments here.

@@AeliosArt I'm not sorry. I specifically asked him a question about it because I think it shows your doctrine gets very complicated quickly, and it's maybe the easiest defeater of your doctrine to explain that can't get re-interpreted. LWhen an older gentleman came with the first two missionaries I met with because I was home alone, I think he was offended that I said it took me a while to think in a different paradigm. 😅 He said I think it's simple and explained about spirit children, etc. Anyway, I think that this missionary didn't know about Yahweh/Jehovah showed he has read the scriptures plainly and I pray God will use that in his life to show him truth. I have lots of questions 🙂 but I'll start with that one. Can Heavenly Father take the name Yahweh?

Not sure if your an SDA or a Hebrew roots member.

@@chattown09 hello, I am neither. I believe in every word of God and what I practice I can back up with that inspired word. God is not offering salvation to the whole world at this time.. look up how many times the word Mystery is mentioned in the NT. And then read the context. You love to label people. Instead open your bible and prove all things. Stop leaning to your own understanding. Jeff also says alot..that Not one jot or tittle will pass from God's word..but scripture doesn't say that.. it says Not one jot or tittle will pass from GODS LAW!! Completely different meaning. Gods law IS spiritual and eternal. And when Christ returns, ALL mankind will be keeping this law..Label that!!

Jeff didn't even address what he said. Jeff doesn't even understand the Bible and claims he knows Mormonism better. It's irony, you see.

I think it's both - both Jeff's view and a fulfillment where an anti-Christ will set himself up in a place of worship after a serious apostasy or rebellion, and Christians will be confused at first about whether this was the second coming because it is so deceitful. Does anyone know if that view has a name? I'll have to ask a pastor. 🙂 Double meanings are throughout scripture, and even in the scriptures Jesus fulfilled. But what do LDS believe the son of perdition is?

So postmil believe in one final coming of Christ. The first was the judgement of the temple. However 2 Thess. does refer to an end of times note. Meaning that this is where Christ saves His Church once and for all.

Apparently it did enough to constitute the necessity of another testament

I’ve done in depth reading of Mormon apostles and prophets. I definitely don’t see it.

@@mr400meter sorry, I don’t follow. Don’t see what?

I didn’t get that after having watch Jacob’s video first and then Jeff’s response.

​@@thekolobsociety You really are in here coping and seething for your buddy.

@@thekolobsociety You can communicate with me in written format. If you don't want to on here give me your email and we can talk that way.

@Hayden I don't comment on two different accounts. You don't want to talk face to face either. You want to do a zoom call which is a massive waste of my time. Why can't you engage anyone in a written format? It's much more flexible and precise.