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Are Suno and Udio Making Musicians Quit?

  Рет қаралды 1,000

Paul Croteau

Paul Croteau

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 39
@NoBudgetTechShow
@NoBudgetTechShow 2 ай бұрын
Just coming to the end of your video and want to say how much i enjoyed it. i found ai music the day the UDIO public beta dropped and jumped in with both feet. i am an amateur musician/producer and its my hobby in my retirement years. first thing i did with AI music was to put in some lyrics for a song i started writing in memory of my girlfriend who passed away in mid march, so just shortly before the beta test. i am not ashamed to say i wept like a baby when i heard what came out of my speakers. it helped me grieve, i could never have pulled something like that off with the thousands of dollars worth of hardware and software i have here. im firmly on the AI bandwagon and look forward to hearing how people use it going forward.
@vexistentialist
@vexistentialist 2 ай бұрын
I'm going to be a bit harsh, here...and probably repeat myself from the last time I spoke on this subject...but I'll try to keep it short. If you quit because of the way the landscape is changing...no matter what medium of creativity it refers to...then you were never that passionate about it in the first place. One of the key parts of being creative is adapting to change. Literally nothing ever stays the same, whether you consider it progression or regression, the only constant is that it WILL change, eventually. I have seen way too many traditional artists...especially the ones already based in primarily digital work...claim that "THIS IS THE END OF ART!", because of the rise of AI. How ironic that many physical artists, before them, said the EXACT same thing when digital art programs started becoming prominent. Same thing was said even further back when cameras became easily available/affordable, etc. Yet here we all still are, enjoying art in every possible form. All of this, of course, applies to music production and composition, just like with visual art. The simple fact is, if you understand how to adapt and are truly creative, you will roll with the punches and keep moving forward. Thanks for a great conversation.
@fakeman6542
@fakeman6542 2 ай бұрын
its very easy for you to say that, but if you have built a livelihood off of doing something a very certain way that suddenly doesn't compete anymore, how are you supposed to adapt? The change is massive.
@vexistentialist
@vexistentialist 2 ай бұрын
@@fakeman6542 I don't think there is an easy answer to this, for anyone...and I think the answer is going to be different for each individual. Some are just going to be able to easily pivot...like in terms of concept artists, for instance, they'll branch out into other forms of physical art and not rely so heavily on easily produced digital work that AI can do faster. As to what it means for those in the music business, Geebz or Paul are going to have more insight in that field. I can only say that it really depends on what you do with music. If you are a core musician or in a band, and not trying to produce or compose for corporate needs, then I don't think there's any real danger of being "replaced". There are always going to be humans playing and recording music, until there aren't any humans left. On the producer/composer side of it, you just have to find the niche you're good at and be better than whatever AI is producing. Use AI as the tool that it is, and find a way.
@stevematta
@stevematta 2 ай бұрын
As a.so called AI artist myself thats how i found this. Im coming for all. Probably nobody will ever hear my AI SONGS with the oversaturation with all AI creations but i still love music but i can hear the music i want the way i want it.
@silverworks7
@silverworks7 2 ай бұрын
Great conversation and keep on surfing and making music.
@farmersmith7057
@farmersmith7057 2 ай бұрын
I find that the more granular the music skill (eg specific skills on guitar or piano), the more we are tethered to muscle memory, the sheer habit of the mind. We walk down those same paths even though we don’t want to. I had my first brush with so-called AI via the random MIDI notes plugin for Ableton. It freed me from my habits. Now I could discover utterly random melodies, and I’d become a mere editor. Taking it a step further with Udio, I’m freed from my usual drum patterns, styles, genres! It’s now all about EXPRESSION, not musical ability. Does that hurt my ego? So far, no. I feel that there’s enough of my personality in my Udio creations to feel I’m expressing myself. I also have the freedom of having a very very small following. I don’t care about switching from classical to chill wave to prog rock to MOR rock to folk to ambient. Expression takes many forms. Ultimately, are you having fun? If so, keep going. Purists and gatekeepers tend to have vested interests.
@YoPaulieMusic
@YoPaulieMusic 2 ай бұрын
Excellent comment. Using these tools to find new musical directions is a good way to go.
@PopLife
@PopLife 2 ай бұрын
Great conversation! I just had a co-writer push back on my use of AI to help write a song. Even when I said we could take the idea and make it our own, they were just not comfortable doing it. I shrugged my shoulders to myself and said, okay, I'll just write this on my own and we can just go about things as usual. However, to be honest, I can see not working much more with this co-writer since I see so much potential working with AI that I just don't want to be held down. As Paul said "embrace it and adapt or keep writing as you have been"
@blurtam188
@blurtam188 2 ай бұрын
I use it to intro my shows!!
@maccagrabme
@maccagrabme 2 ай бұрын
I've heard far better AI music than I've heard in the last 20 years of mainstream music. If the best of AI was on the radio I would switch it back on. However, the best stuff I've heard tends to be where where someone has input their own lyrics.
@fjzingo
@fjzingo 2 ай бұрын
I agree with the assesment of music overflooding, humans only have time to listen and adore a certain amount of music. Music is communication, some will continue to prefer listening to the real deallive etc. My issue with the AI companies is if they do not licens the music used for training. The machine learning models should be viewed as databases and be handled accordingly wrt ip.
@BobHarleyAndTheTraders
@BobHarleyAndTheTraders Ай бұрын
I stopped being a musician like 10-15 years ago. Suno brought me back and now have a steady growing yt music channel with parody reggae, lol
@DarthMadV
@DarthMadV 2 ай бұрын
I started seriously song writing and producing because of Udio. I didn't see the point in making beats... boring, oversaturated. I needed the most important instrument... the voice. Now I have that, I bought FL Studio and am making music I want to hear, bringing the songs I write and hear in my mind, into to life. Ai allows people who couldn't afford to make music, to afford it. If I really, really work hard on a piece, I can produce pieces that pass as authentic. Which I have proven to myself with my upload "Lasso" which took 450 prompts AND external production. Through the process I've realised that making music and writing it is therapeutic. I think too many people who feel threatened by Ai in music, are thinking of music too capitalistically... which if you want to quit making music because of Ai, you're in it for the wrong reasons. Music is for healing the soul. Everyone should write their own song and see what it does for them. Most of it won't be appealing to others, but it will be healing for the individual. Share it with your people or just keep it for yourself.
@DarthMadV
@DarthMadV 2 ай бұрын
Also Thanks for talking about this. Like you guys said, it's a novelty. Most people will play with it for a day or two and move on... Excitingly, the truly talented musicians will rise to the top. Maybe the music industry will change for the BETTER. If anything, I write my songs as pitches for artists who can perform them because I could never.
@DarthMadV
@DarthMadV 2 ай бұрын
@@amremorse lmao. There’s a difference between using the TOOL of Ai to just generate junk and using it to bring your vision to life. Ai produces junk on its own. Period. I write the lyrics, I prompt the style I want the song, I sit there and prompt hundreds of times just to get it to sing a 30 sec section the way I need it to, I’m the one with the ear extracting samples I think I can work with, that’s a skill. And this process would be much easier in real life without Ai! But hey, we don’t all have partners we can work with! Most big artists in Hollywood have whole teams to bring their song to life. That is what working with Ai is like. I creatively direct the sound I want, once I get it, I have an idea of how I want the song to expand. I change prompts, I structure it, I aim to develop the style, I even have an idea for a melody and will sit there and generate it until Ai GETS it or gets it good enough. Not everyone using the tech is on the same level in that department. Thats why labels aren’t going to just sit there and use Ai themselves to make music without talented song writers. In-fact they’ll most likely use Ai combined with artists because once you got the first part of a song done, it’s much easier to develop the rest IRL without Ai. Ai does not produce gold on its own. It’s shockingly bad 99% of the time, even when you’re working with it. You really have to know what you want and what you’re doing to extract a smidge of something workable from that 1%. You still need to find the talented creative who knows how to use Ai to get what they want. One who has the talent to know what is worth extracting. It’s the same as people who use Chat GPT. We can tell the difference between someone copy and pasting, and someone who actually put the work in to their submissions. We can tell the difference between an Ai song and a non-ai song… UNTILL a talented person works with the Ai to create something that becomes original. It becomes original when a human works on a peice enough to get it passable as a non-ai work. When it passes, that’s how you know a person put WORK in. This does GOOD for the culture. Idk if you’ve been listening to music lately but most of what’s on the radio and charts is just crap because a lot of it is just privileged people who can afford to make it. A lot of nepotism has been in music. Ai changes that. Now talent from the lowest of socio-economic circumstance now have the tools to rise to the top. Saying I did not write a song bc I used Ai to bring it to life is an extremely daft incorrect take. I wrote the lyrics, I creatively directed the sound, I have the ear to know what I like, I directed the structure, I promoted it like 300+ times just to do my lyrics justice. THEN I moved it to FL studio where I spend days cutting crap, extracting samples, moving them around, creating cohesiveness, adding instruments… adding effects. Comping vocals. Structuring. Mixing. Im doing what a producer does. So I’m writing, directing, promoting and co-producing. If you wanna disregard that, that’s abit delulu because I own the copyrights to the final product for a reason.
@DarthMadV
@DarthMadV 2 ай бұрын
@@amremorse “ripped off musicians” Ai mimics a human brains neural network. Musicians are constantly “ripping off” other musicians to create their music, if ya wanna call it that. Thats how music works. Every artist takes fragments of all the music before them to create their own original work, with and without Ai.
@pieczumusic
@pieczumusic 2 ай бұрын
​​@@DarthMadVbut an artist is a human being with feelings, with a self consciousness, that makes a huge effort to learn from other artists, spends a lot of time and dedication to become a good composer. AI is just a machine in spite of its "neural network". It's an obvious difference, but anyway...I see it's the same to you. You obviously don't give a f### about it. You don't get it and just don't care. Not even as a philosophical concern. Mediocrity and lazyness at its best.
@DarthMadV
@DarthMadV 2 ай бұрын
@@pieczumusic wrong. Ai is the reason I’m learning how to produce better because it now makes making music more interesting to me. I already know how to play the basics of piano, guitar and drums. Now I’m learning the basics of orchestrals and am taking song writing seriously. It takes a lot of hard work to be able to use Ai and turn it into something genuinely consumable by humans. I am making works that make people cry because of how much work I put my music. I’m tired of people saying just because someone uses Ai, that it reduces the work or one’s legitimacy as an artist. Bullshit. I wrote the song, I directed the sound, I am the one who was very critical with the melody and ensured I got the sound I wanted by prompting hundreds of times, I’m the one who cut what I didn’t like and merged different files, I sampled sounds, comped the voice, I added instruments, I mixed it. I structured it. If you don’t think artistry is part of that process, you’re in denial. Not everyone using Ai as a tool is creating on the same level. It’s just like when students use Ai in their school assessments. Just because ya use it doesn’t mean you’re gonna get 100/100. If you don’t know what you’re doing, you will fail. If you obviously haven’t done any research or put any work in to change the output, you will fail. You will only get a high mark if you use Ai in your assessment if you use it as a study PARTNER. You have to know your shit to be able to push it to generate what you need so YOU can take the output and work your magic. And even then, you’re not gonna get a high mark unless you are well-read on the topic, and know when what is coming out is shit you need to sift out, AND if what is coming out is worth working with.
@ronschultz4901
@ronschultz4901 2 ай бұрын
Excellent conversation guys
@gilligillihan8347
@gilligillihan8347 2 ай бұрын
it is a good co-writer if you ain't got one!! js...
@angrytrader3783
@angrytrader3783 2 ай бұрын
I dont think quit is the right word. But it dramatically alters what you may prioritze to study, learn, practice and create music. Using AI it is very possible to create commercial quality music far faster than you could otherwise. I think it is a bit like what happened when cameras become mainstream. People no longer needed people to draw and paint anything. In every town there were familly painters like there are tatoo shops today. We will likely see the same when robotic printers and automated systems allow you to get a Tatoo for $50 that now costs $500. People will have to quit if they depend on certain areass for income.I can see a lot of indie movie and film producers now not needing to hire arrangers and compositionists. So you learn to use the AI and create music more efficiently and leverage your musicianship. Just like the tatoo shops that 10 to 20 years from now that invest in a $250k system that gives you a flawless tatoo in 20 minutes for 10% of todays cost.
@isajoha9962
@isajoha9962 2 ай бұрын
AI generated music still kind of lack the consistency of the background instruments and mostly just generates "the focused" sounds in a track + drum beat. Kind of like scratching the surface of an arrangement.
@Shyeep
@Shyeep 2 ай бұрын
Creating the old school way isn't the point of art.... it's like saying an architects job is about digging a hole with a shovel and that industrial digging machines is "ruining the creativity". Working alongside generative models IS creativity. That's why you can give ten thousand people Suno and you will get TEN THOUSAND very different results from each person. It's just this new explosion of possibilities to explore as an artist. Faster and fuller to get to the end result of art. It isn't the suffering in the process that makes something worthwhile.... that is just a magical fantasy that hobbists have that they try to apply to different arts.
@YoPaulieMusic
@YoPaulieMusic 2 ай бұрын
Well said. Using it as a tool instead of whining about it stealing your creativity is a good stance. :)
@ronnenvallejo7444
@ronnenvallejo7444 2 ай бұрын
Whoa. Great talk. I agree with the AI flooding, therefore people backing away from social media. A shiny new toy to some, but to others like myself, a great new fun tool.
@elmentor8919
@elmentor8919 2 ай бұрын
Those who quit music for financial reasons because of AI , they are not real musicians and they deserve to quit music as quick as possible.
@byoud3214
@byoud3214 2 ай бұрын
The main thing that AI will change the way music is made. The prompt engineer will be the new musician. Right now, it's a novelty because the people who are using it have no musical knowledge. Once real musicians start using it, we will have a digital renaissance.
@michaelbodalski
@michaelbodalski 2 ай бұрын
"prompt engineering" will be gone in a few years, it just takes longer for GUI's to evolve and we are still in the early days of AI user interfaces.
@rileylove8560
@rileylove8560 2 ай бұрын
If these prompts will listen. I wish i could tell it what key to use and to make a key change
@gu9838
@gu9838 2 ай бұрын
this is so overblown. there is a ton of music out there already anyways. so are you gonna just blame ai ? i dare say it challanges the music industry and i think thats not a bad thing. you need to prove you can stand out a bit more i think. ai is not going to destroy music or creativity you just gotta use it to stand out!
@YoPaulieMusic
@YoPaulieMusic 2 ай бұрын
I personally don't think people should quit making music because of these tools, the title of this video is based on comments in my other videos from people saying that THEY want to quit music, or hate music, because of these tools.
@MarcoMugnatto
@MarcoMugnatto 2 ай бұрын
In summary: You two are AI negationists. We needed someone to provide a counterpoint.
@YoPaulieMusic
@YoPaulieMusic 2 ай бұрын
What exactly do you think we are trying to negate?
@MarcoMugnatto
@MarcoMugnatto 2 ай бұрын
​@@YoPaulieMusic That AI will be something much bigger than previous digital advancements in music, more than just tools, and capable of making people believe that real musicians are playing, able to compete directly with human musicians to the point where it will be impossible for the overwhelming majority to "be better" as the guy on the left suggested. From the perspective of someone who believes these "tools" will evolve to the point of directly competing with human musicians, it is almost "cruel" to assert that "if you are surpassed by AI, it is the human musician's fault."
@pjo5214
@pjo5214 2 ай бұрын
The "Campfire Complex" as he calls it, is laughable, clubs will eventually be able to afford AI and Holographic "artists" (not immediately but not too far off) and it will likely destroy most human live music just because it is more affordable, and this "Campfire Complex" will be niche at best if at all. It's a simple result of profit over humanism. If you cannot write or arrange a tune without AI you are not an artist. In the future you will see great (or not) singers and instrumentalists playing AI compositions because they lack compositional prowess and the "Standing on the shoulders of giants" argument is garbage. Human influence is real and unpredictable but stealing from AI is just lazy.
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