Exactly - I hope to inspire riders to go make one change and start their journey on making them find settings to their bike rides the way they want it to.

@@CatalystReactionSBW hi good day Dave I'm looking for for your tuning app on the play store but I can't find it do have a link please thank you!!

@@nolydpot8967 The App was discontinued several years ago as there were no users so all the content was removed and placed into Total Access on the DMT website. I may bring that app back in the near future based on levels of interest for basic set up, rebound and compression fine tuning and tyre wear.

@@CatalystReactionSBW okay then Dave thanks very much i really appreciate it was looking everywhere just wanted to get the correct yss PD valves for my 1990 Suzuki dr 800 sr42 model, don't know the inner diameter of the fork tubes it's the 41mm conventional damping forks

@@nolydpot8967 The inner diameter of a 41mm fork is 39mm. You will find the valves should be 38mm AND the manufacturer (PD) should tell you that.

Exactly.

The Sickening do it by height.

Daniel Crowder Yep, gotcha! I understand why. I'm experimenting with everything now. I even poured and measured different oil level heights in the fork, then poured the oil back out and measured, just to collect data and see what heights gave me what volumes.

Excellent work and thanks for sharing the reuslts form prior to current and how much better your R6 is.

Excellent work and thank you for using the videos to assist you with this task. Set compression in the middle of the total range and make sure you put preload at minimum when you go for an exploratory ride at 50-60% ability to assess fork travel and braking stability. Take the preload and compression tools with you :)

Excellent - thanks for rolling your sleeves up.

Yes.Loosen the top triple clamp first then remove the fork caps. Always add equally so you have the same air gap.

Thank you for wanting to learn and seeking out my channel.

Electronics define your experience and I want to be mechanical and use my good judgement verses a software answer. All the bikes I've tuned have returned to manual suspension for the sheer simplicity of quick adjustments and visceral results. So.... can you get a surrogate set of fork with better cartridges in them?

I should also add that i am a bit confused with something you said in a comment that, to do an oil change on the fork, the fork it does not have to come apart, but then you said in another comment that to check the oil level the spring has to come out.....wouldn't you have to check the level after doing an oil change?

@@spinna6996 Thanks for the kind words and I appreciate you leveraging the content. There are 2 ways. One is a "dump and run" of oil out, the volume recorded and oil back in to the same volume. Two is to take the cap, spacer and spring out, change the oil and set the level EXACTLY where you want it to be.

@@CatalystReactionSBW Ah ok thanks for that, makes sense now.

Mr.dave im using 2t oil for my fork but the problem is the bounce of my front shock is toohard,the amount of oil that i put is 60ml base on my motorcycle manual.what oil can you recommend to me to use for my fork stabilizer?im weighing 68to 70kg.Do you think what viscosity is neded for my fork oil? Thanks

Please send me a picture of the fork cartridge nd what you are trying to remove.

Assuming you're not skidding then it will feel like you bottomed out your forks

Yes correct - millimeters. It all depends what you start with and what the maximum oil height is. That tell you what you can do BUT, you have to take the cap, spacer and spring out to see what you have first!

Great train of thought in regards to oil level and air gap. Where we need it most is under the compression/braking stroke and note that extension is controlled by rebound. Adding preload may extend the forks creating less air gap (based on internal engineering) and yes with the forks extended , oil level in your thinking is lower due to extension. BUT adding oil does not work as you may hydrolock the forks. So, based on that explanation, please watch this video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e8-KjJOdyNfJgmw.html

Yes, that volume will take away travel. Easy enough to pull oil out with a syringe with a tube from an animal vet store. Take 100cc out initially.

Thanks for being proactive. You can only add so much oil as you can create hydraulic lock so please be careful. If you start losing fork travel you have too much oil in the forks.

Yes, thanks for the awesome vids. Just going to add a few more mL to the left shock than the right as the left seems to be leaking more than the right at times. I like the soft feel but I've put the bike to stock using this guide as messing with sag and everything requires the bike to have everything working as new (maintenance). Old setups if you create sag, depending on how hard you push it stays up or down say 5mm rather than returning to the same spot with new oil. I think a lot of people who mess with their settings think they know what they are doing don't so running on the street can be very dangerous. You can only truly know your setup is good with a lot of special equipment like race engineers. Things could feel good at certain levels but to truly test if things work or not can be dangerous and can lead to unpredictable behaviors that create irreversible unwanted results. The suspension is rock hard in the winter compared to the summer when hitting certain bumps. How do you soften up the compression during the winter? What dials do you change? www.sportrider.com/suggested-sport-bike-motorcycle-suspension-settings

Anthony Abelardo Dude, if you're fork seals are leaking then you need to replace the seals, not just keeping adding oil to the forks. That is very dangerous, as the oil, as you stated, leaking on the calipers is also going to soak the pads and the rotors. There goes your brakes. And no, manufacturers do not design forks to automatically leak oil when they are overfilled with oil.

I put the heaviest fork oil you could find and it softened up the seals and it stopped leaking so much.

Changing the oil may help. I believe stock is 100mm? You can do this a little easier by adding 25cc in each leg which is a lot less work. If that makes no difference you have to go to a much stronger spring as your weight and ability require that change.

Yes, adding oil to the forks would help in that regard with the air spring effect. You would work in 20cc increments and must bottom out (just). A loss of travel might mean hydrolock and that will reintroduce harshness back into the forks.

You add oil by unscrewing the fork cap which will give you a gap to put oil back into the fork. There's no way to know how much you lost so if you are okay with an educated guess, a little bit of oil is literally 10cc. If oil coated the forks and the brakes, 15-30cc might be approriate. With taking the forks apart, you don't know what you lost in precise terms. Hope this helps!

The closest to that fork is this one in terms of common parts and service protocols. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrViibOpr8qVcX0.html

I do not have a video on that fork but would be happy to create one if I can get a set in the next few weeks.

Dave..this would be great..if you have the opportunity please do. On www.r1-forum.com/ forum is quite a lot of interest for YAMAHA R1 04-06 fork service guide. Thanks

Oil volume can be used as a reference but oil height is more precise so you actually choose the volume YOU want. Yes, volume and height are both the same if you know what volume you needed to get the height you wanted.

@@CatalystReactionSBW appreciated ! for a regular street bike, do you recommend to play with height by +/- 5mm or 10 or 15mm ?? Can you give any tip about it..? Thank U

@@plt4415 +3mm at a time only.

@@plt4415 +/- 3mm is the standard change we use.

Lower oil level could help, thinner viscosity could also help :)

Dave Moss Tuning great . Thank you Dave

Thanks for getting your fork oil changed! Fork oil viscosity is not like engine oil that is standardized all over the world. So, if the 5w was too thin, jump to 10w right away and you should be in the middle of the damping range. If you do use thicker oil you might not need the same amount so be careful with that.

awesome! thanks Dave!

Forums will generally have that information in the technical section including volume and viscosity. You can ask the service department of the local/regional dealership that represents the brand or email corporate for help. You can go by oil height instead. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ldGPfdmLma_Ilpc.html

@@CatalystReactionSBW many thanks Dave

Yes, Motul or Maxima 10w.

Very interesting. Did you check for witness marks on the fork caps to see if there are any recent tool marks.? When the oil was fully drained, were there any black strands of metal visible when you go down the base of the fork? When the fork was allowed to drain over night, did you see any sludge or metal paste? As per your perception based on experience, there should be some contamination from the fork spring scraping on both up and down strokes.

Air gap would be 130mm for street which would offer a decent air spring effect.

@@CatalystReactionSBW Thank you Sir for the quick reply and expert advice.You ARE the man!

Dave Moss Tuning Dave, I’m getting ready to change the factory 8 weight fork oil to Motul 15 weight oil in my 2018 Suzuki SV650 per your recommendation. You recommended a 130mm air gap. My local dealer provided copies of the maintenance procedure they use. It specifies an 84mm gap. This is measured without the spring and fully compressed. This is a massive difference and I would greatly appreciate your comments before I start work. Best Regards.

@@ronniefranks4351 If you use thicker oil it moves slower so the thin oil needs more volume for the air spring effect to assist in bottoming. It also allows you to feel the new oil and get plushness. If you do get close to bottom, you can add 40cc to each leg to bring the oil level up. Given you local roads, climate and your speeds, 15w may be good for Winter and Spring but 20w might be better for summer. Test, test some more and define what you need :)

Dave Moss Tuning Thank you, sir. You’re responsive, very helpful, and a valuable asset to motorcycling (and all us knuckleheads who don’t know better.)

Agreed when traveling if the forks do not move, you won't build pressure. Stick a Go Pro on the back window and watch the suspension move. Period bleeding during a drive can help relieve air pressure. I tie down my CRF450X at about 25% of travel to avoid pressure build up.

@@CatalystReactionSBW Great idea and thank you for your time :)

Fork springs out and if there is a spacer below the fork spring it stays in.

No difference at 5mm. At 25mm you would get a different air spring effect is the oil level was higher than 150mm

@@CatalystReactionSBW Thank you

Both adjusters should be the same. Have them removed and installed again correctly to match

Thanks for the kind words. You ride at average speeds of 100-140kph. Aggressive would be over 150kph all the time. The fork springs in your bike are very strong and the shock is softer. If you have over 12,000kms on the rear shock, the rear will be much softer than the front, so you should have the preload adjuster 3 notches from the strongest/maximum setting. Use Maxima 10w. Replace by the volume you remove from the fork or by setting the oil level at 130mm.

Thanks for the reply.. Currently, bike reached 24k+ kms. What do you mean by "...should have the preload adjuster 3 notches from the strongest/maximum setting"? Should I set the shock preload stronger/weaker? I forgot to mention that I've replaced my rear shock with Ohlins KA-1100-16 (specific for ER6n) at 20k kms. Ok. Maxima 10w then :) Can I assume that Volume I remove from the fork is the same/close as the spec in the manual? (completely dry: 479 ±4 mL)? Thanks again, Dave...

With the Ohlins shock check that you have 10-12mm of static sag with a cold shock, and then see how much travel you use. You should access 70-80% of the chrome tube and be 8-12mm from the rubber bump stop

Great! I'll follow your guide! Thanks again dave :)

Thanks for the kind words!

The dive may be oil viscosity not volume but for now change oil height to 150mm. This will not hurt the seals. Great work on the fork oil combination!

If the forks have never been serviced before nor have leaked, that's a fairly safe bet :)

If you are going to do only one of the two, figure out what is most urgent. If you cannot control rebound, oil viscosity. If you keep bottoming out oil height. If you bottom out and can't control rebound, take a minute to figure out what oil weight to change to and how much more than stock volume you will try.

More oil is for air spring effect to aid with much slower bottoming out. There is a video on that. Thicker oil is generally slower movement to keep rebound under control.

Remove cap, spacer and spring. Collapse the forks to their minimum length. Add oil. Bleed the cartridge/damping rod correctly. Then measure from the top of the tube to the oil surface and make it 108mm.

When you brake, one fork will collapse fatser than the other so the bike might steer in the direction of the leaking fork. For maximum braking/panic stop, the bike might steer to the leaking side profoundly.

If you have a drain bolt at the base of each fork, that allows you to drain the oil out. Taking the forks apart and doing a strip clean is essential work as so much metal builds up in the bottom of the fork. I will do that every 20-30k depending on use. You can price seals on line, that is not a problem and the labor seems to be consistent with dealer prices.

@@CatalystReactionSBW ok thanks dave!🙂

Take a look at your fork travel using a zip tie and mark fork bottom out. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m8qjZseflrKmm6s.html Once you have that information you can see if this is oil or spring related.

Thanks for replay , but i have tried with zip tie and even after agresive ride doest come near to bottom out, some 40 mm from triple clamp, if i put preload gets stiff, if i add compresion bit jumpy but comfortable on lower speed with aceleration handlebar start to woble, same with rebound, so whay i think there is a problem with oil because i tried everything else, components are year old with matris rear shock, absorber, new tyres, road attack 3. So drive is possible only on very lo rebound, and even less compression, half turn preload,shame have seen faster bikes with more copliant forks then mine.sorry for my english.

@@tomislavkljakovic2676 If you have marked bottom out correctly and 40mm is from the bottom out mark to the zip tie, oil or spring may be the culprit. Unscrewing the fork caps would be the first test to measure installed preload. Then oil level second.

See how much travel you use. As long as you vigorously pumped the cartridge to make sure it was empty you should be fine. If you lose travel, then you have too much oil.

@@CatalystReactionSBW seems a little stiffer,, and yea I fogot to pump the tube thank you, maybe i should siphon out an oz?

@@markhanson3981 It would not hurt to remove it.

That is 100% correct - we always set oil height after following the air purging process.

@@CatalystReactionSBW ah perfect thank you

1. Did you strip clean the fork and take it all apart? If so, there is no issue being 1oz less. 2. Did you "dump and run" and make sure the volume you extracted was 16oz or more? If not and you find you are not getting the same travel, you may have too much oil in the fork.

Yes, absolutely. The video "dump and run" is exactly that technique.

@@CatalystReactionSBW awesome, my R1 just hit 11k so time for a refresh. I won't have to mess with the settings or anything will i?

If you are stating travel available and want to know how to measure fork bottom out, use this video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/btWdbNKhupu1Zas.html

It is always easy to add oil, so start at 140mm and see how that feels when riding for both braking and corner entry. If you feel the forks dive too fast, add, 20cc of oil to each leg. Ride again and see what change that makes.

@@CatalystReactionSBW can you explain how to add oil when forks are not removed?should i lift bike in front when adding oil?thnx

@@pinctinc Put the bike on the kick/side stand and undo one fork cap. Add the oil, put the cap back on and torque it. Switch to the other leg.

@@CatalystReactionSBW thank you greetings from slovenia :)

That sounds like a very reasonable executive decision. Did you mark bottom out during the process on one leg?

Dave Moss Tuning I didn't Dave, should I have? Is this when the new oil has been fitted and whilst the forks are off the bike?

It is just one of those things you can do with the forks off the bike. You can also do it this way: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m8qjZseflrKmm6s.html

Dave Moss Tuning thanks Dave appreciated! Will give that link a watch. rewatched the video and know exactly what you mean now. possibly service again in the winter and I'll do this.

also look up the OEm recommended oil and then look up what you used via a fork oil viscosity chart (use Google). Look at the viscosity index number to compare them. That is also very useful information to have in acquiring a deeper understanding of fork oil and how to best use it.

15w fork oil, volume at 160cc

@@CatalystReactionSBW thanku so v much sir for quick response.God bless you.😊😊.

Most of the time spring and spacer out unless the manufacturer requires the spacer in.

@@CatalystReactionSBW Thank you.

It should not cause wheel vibration. Old thick oil is cause suspension action to be harsh until the oil becomes less viscous. That is felt through the handlebars as fork oil takes a lot longer to warm up than shock oil (no engine heat assistance).

This may help: www.hdforums.com/forum/oil-and-oil-related-topics/351357-fork-oil-capacities-all-years-and-models.html

Found online for the 600R: Amount for change - 273cc Amount for rebuild - 317 - 325cc Type - SAE 10W20 Front Fork Air Pressure Standard - 8.5psi Front Fork Air Pressure Usable Range - 7.1 - 10psi Front Fork Air Pressure Maximum - 36psi

Add the missing amount of 209ml

Oil level and volume depend on displacement based on fork internals present when setting oil height eg: 440cc might = 130mm oil height in a 43mm fork vs a 45mm fork (inner diameter). I always belled the fork very carefully to remove air and then set oil level. Higher oil levels = more compressed air to assist with bottoming out.

The recommended volume in the service manual is fine unless you are over 90kg. Then you would need thicker oil to the same volume. 440cc is the volume IF the fork is completely disassembled.

Dave Moss Tuning thanks for your valuable reply 🙂

+Dave Moss Tuning . hi Dave just a quick one? I have to soft suspension on my ktm 2018 so I popped more oil in to stiffen the suspension, this help but for steep down hills the suspension was still to soft, so I have put some bigger springs in,this is much better and the suspension feels good apart from i am only using around 65% of the chrome leg and the front sits a little high. if I take the oil out that I added will it lower the shock slightly or do you think I need to shorten the spring because of to much preload. any advice would be appreciated thank you.

Correct, remove all preload to disassemble the fork and bleed the fork cartridge with compression all the way open.

@@CatalystReactionSBW ok. Thank you for responding. Thanks a lot for your videos too. They're helpful. I've been struggling with the forks since i bought the bike. I don't have the money to take it in anywhere, so i appreciate all of the info i can get.

First thing to do is a simple oil change to the right viscosity and volume, and that does not require the forks to be disassembled at all. Have you done that?

@@CatalystReactionSBW yes. First i tried changing the oil level because the oil looked clean. Then i changed the bushings, seals, and oil. I then tried lowering the oil volume to the lowest amount my manual says is ok. I didn't have the right size hex bit to take out the cartridge, so i ordered it. My bike is an 02 yz250. I can't get the forks to compress the way they should. When i get on the bike and jump up and down they don't compress. They do a little when i hold the brake and push forward, but only about a couple inches. They're also sticky. They don't move smoothly. Today I'm going to try what you suggested in one of your videos about using a little grease to help with striction problems. I didn't try to get them to fully compress while they were off the bike. I've also messed with the adjusters and made sure they're not binding. The axle was a bit messed up. So i filed down the spots that were causing it to grab the forks so it could move smoothly. I jump up and down on it and push it forward while holding the brakes before tightening the pinch bolts.

@@CatalystReactionSBW one thing i forgot to mention is that the springs aren't marked, but according to my manual the standard size springs are the only ones with no markings saying the size. The standard size is for 140-170 pounds. I'm at about 165 pounds. So these springs shouldn't be too stiff for me.

He didn't say that the volume remains the same.

You change oil level, the volume changes in cc's so you can track oil level or cc's removed. The choice is yours.

Great. keeping tab on the oil level looks like a more dependable option. Thanks for the video

You need to explain that a higher oil level reduces the air volume raising the compression pressure thus raising the spring rate

Thank you for your comment. The spring rate cannot change as it is a fixed piece of metal designed and engineered to maintain its rate for years of service in the forks or shocks. What can change is the air spring effect via different oil levels with compressed air. Hence off road bikes having fork bleed valves to be used daily.

If the fork base is held in a vice and the allen will not move, turn the fork upside down and put some diesel fuel into the opening. Give it a couple of days. Try not to use air tools as you can snap the head off. Apply some heat via hair dryer or propane torch and get it nice and warm, then us a long breaker bar and sustained force. That should make it pop free.

@@CatalystReactionSBW the fork is still on the bike tryed heating it already and put some gb weld bolt loosener on it wont budge. Should I just take fork off ?

@@ccskoocoo Yes, remove the fork leg and see if there is a local shop that can assist. Again, power tools are a last resort.

@@CatalystReactionSBW ok thank you for your help!

Unscrew both fork caps with the bike on a center stand, then push the front wheel up and have someone watch the fork caps carefully.

@@CatalystReactionSBW thanks Dave. Am I right in saying that a preload spacer/washer might need to go in the forks. From what I can see in other Yamaha forums this seems to solve this problem. Thanks jon

@@1jonblaze Possibly yes especially if this is a common problem and what you find mirrors the information.

@@CatalystReactionSBW thanks for your help Dave and thanks for your great videos on KZfaq. Have a great day jon from Scotland

@@1jonblaze Yes, as long as you have a minimum of 20mm of static sag.

Fork oil volume as specified in the service manual for volume and viscosity works well off road.

Dammit - you stumbled on our enlightenment ruse........

You can do that of course! But, if that was the wrong volume (used bike purchase) would it be better to get the volume right, then go for the simple process after that?

He answered this at 2:40

Funny - your reasons are what so so many thumbs down?