“I was a bit of a goth” I would have never suspected

I think the goth, metal and gamer misinformation was just because parents groups didn't like them.

In the aftermath of Colombine, my school in a small Colorado town about an hour or so away from Colombine held an assembly about bullying. Being a goth kid, I was specifically named (without my permission) in said assembly as an example of someone like Eric and Dylan and why people like me shouldn't be bullied, the intended message being lost in the process and replaced with a warning of "Jeezy will shoot you if you treat him badly." Yeah, that went about how one would expect. The bullying got worse, many of my friends distanced themselves from me, and I spent most of my school time as the troubled loner of my school's own creation.

i remember growing up on the myth that dylan was the sweet and gentle one who got sucked up into eric's black hole of insanity because he was depressed and wanted to die. later reading the stories of how dylan acted and the things he said while it was happening, i honestly find myself even more disgusted with him than i do with eric and it annoys me when people try to make one the scapegoat for the other.

The term " A GROUP of loners" has always seemed a little strange to me.

From Bowling for Columbine (2002) Reporter: "If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine and the people in that community what would you say to them?" Marilyn Manson: "I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say and that's what no one did."

When we learned the mythologized version of Columbine, the description of the killers fit me almost perfectly. Lonely, bullied, weird interests, dark fashion style. It completely changed how people in school treated me.

Dylan did want to end his life and was profusely depressed but even if he mainly helped plan it without desiring the same kill count as Eric, he’s still an atrocity. Popping up behind tables in the library yelling peekaboo before capping a high schooler and even responding to someone asking what he was doing with, “I’m shooting people “, he’s every bit as bad as Eric. I’m not saying YOU have it, but many people have the misconception that Dylan wasn’t as bad as Eric when in reality, they’re both equally bad. It’s too bad that people idolize this shit and copy instead of realizing how horrific bad can be

As someone who: 1) is about to graduate from columbine 2) my mother was a student who survived the shooting and 3) has a ton of intel and credibility, I can confirm that this entire video is completely true. Thank you for setting the facts straight, this video has a strong message that needs to be heard. EDIT: For all of you being dicks in my comment and trying to prove unrelated and completely irrelevant points, please show yourself off of KZfaq and go join a conspiracy theory site or some shit. Smh.

As someone who was suicidal and had no friends in school i hate the whole "mentally ill and bullied" excuse,like no millions of people are mentally ill and bullied but don't do this It's either in you or its not Evil isn't a mental illness

To quote Carl T. Bergstrom and Jevin D. West in their book, Calling Bullshit; "A lie will make it to the other side of the world before the truth will even get its shoes on."

I think part of why the media lumped these two in with the Trenchcoat Mafia goes back to a quote from the show "Daria." "When you're popular all unpopular people look the same." I know that adults run the media, but many "adults" seem to maintain their high school mentality.

I learned that the media messes up a ton of information when a small airplane crash landed in my grandma's yard. We helped the guy out of his plane and talked to him while waiting on 911 to arrive. He'd had mechanical problems with his plane and landed it where he could get help (we lived in a pretty remote area and another house wouldn't have been in range). The news reported that he lost consciousness from a heart attack and sustained severe injury in the crash. Neither were remotely true. He had a cut above his eye and didn't even take the ambulance to get checked out at the hospital. After that I have always wondered what the real story is vs what comes on the news.

“They were gay, they practiced witchcraft and had a different fashion sense” *starts to sweat nervously*

As a goth student myself it always made me mad that people treated every Goth bad and judged us because of this incident. My public school even started making everyone wear uniforms so we could no longer dress goth. Out of fear of Goths.

i rly do not like Sues approach to this, HATED her ted talk. Took 0 responsibility, placed no blame on her son, blamed the media and gun laws despite the entire town knowing her son was bound to do something awful and she willingly ignored it. So disappointing.

When my daughters were in middle school, they came home one day and said that a male student there had a list of students and planned to kill them all. Since this was post-Columbine, I called the principal. I'm sure other parents did, too, and he had a meeting for us and basically tried to dampen the concern. I didn't feel this was being taken seriously, so I contacted the school district's attorney and explained what was happening. He chuckled and said he probably said the same thing at that age - "Boys will be boys." So I called the local sheriff's department who took it very seriously. They met the young man's bus as it pulled up to the school the next day and what they found in his backpack and in his locker guaranteed that he'd never be a student in district school's again. Threats like this - and threats of suicide - MUST BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

"This was a failed bombing." I don't know why, but out of everything else in this video, that's the part that gave me chills. I don't want to imagine a world where they gained infamy from a successful bombing with the story assigned to them by the press in this world.

Putting your daughter in the middle of a scope for the cover of a book about her murder, makes me feel uneasy to say the least

When I was in Catholic school, that girl who was asked about whether she believed in God was held up as an example for us...I was in 5th grade. We couldn't even imagine that happening to us, let alone what we would *actually* do in that situation.

This reminds me of that article that's been going around... the title was "I Tried to Befriend Nikolas Cruz, He Still Killed My Friends". It adressed all these people who were like "If only somebody sat with him at lunch none of this would have happened!". Like, yeah, no, it's not always that simple.

I think murderers are sometimes idolized because they represent the actualization of certain power fantasies that people have.

Thank you for this video and for clearing up some of the pernicious myths that have been allowed to grow up around the Columbine shooting. One element of the Columbine shootings that deserves more attention is the way that the shooters enabled each other. The vast majority of mass murderers are lone shooters, so it's worth understanding the dynamic. Some accounts tend to treat Klebold as the follower, someone who would never have harmed anyone but himself if Harris hadn't been leading him. That's probably true, but it's also equally probable that Harris wouldn't have acted without Klebold. As Ochberg and others have noted, Klebold provided the rage-he's the one on video promising "the most deaths in U.S. history"-and Harris provided the focus. Harris is easy to dismiss as a monster: he has every characteristic we despise in sociopaths. Klebold, on the other hand, is someone who might have been saved. It's easier to feel empathy for him. That sometimes leads us to regard him as the lesser evil, which he definitely was not. It's also interesting to note how Columbine changed the nature of "school shooting." There were school shootings prior to Columbine, but they were usually motivated by personal grievance. This is one reason why the media gravitated toward the "trenchcoat mafia" theory: it fit the existing narrative. Harris and Klebold had a much different motive-their aim was not to punish individual students, but to devastate the whole country. Shooters since then have tended to follow their lead, using children as a way of doing psychological harm to entire communities. It fits in with the grandiose fantasies that the boys shared.

Yeah, the religious are never going to care if their "martyrs" are real or not. Stories are their bread and butter. Thank you for talking about this.

All throughout middle school and highschool, people believed I would bomb the school because I was a loner and wore black. People need to stop this shit.

I was a junior in high school and I too was a goth. I was ignored until that day. After that day, I was picked on.

When I read the book, that was the biggest and most chilling reveal! Had no idea that they had placed multiple explosives in the cafeteria that were set to go off at the specific time when the MOST students were present. If their plans had worked out, it would have been sooooooo much worse than it was! Horrifying to think about!

I know this is an old video, but as a Columbine student of the era, that knew people involved with the shooting, I very much appreciate what you've done here.

Had to give this a rewatch after the Uvalde shooting. Nothing has changed. And the media, once again, perpetuated the “lonely shooter”. That evil man was a BULLY. I hope Americans are as mad as I am, we need change. And the media needs to correct itself.

Huge respect to Sue Klebold for her work. Also, laying out the fetishization and copycat murders in the USA helps explain why for instance in New Zealand the government didn't want to widely publicise the name of the mosque shooter. It kept the focus on the heroism of the victims and survivors. The guy who set out to kill them is just "some asshole".

The fact that you speak truth is why I love you channel so much. Keep up the channel. Hope all is gold.

This happened my junior year of high school. I was the only goth kid in my school of 400. I received several one-on-ones with faculty and a few group-on-one talks from student cliques, trying to gauge my level of "will he do this too". Never had any intentions to do that, but the pressure to conform was never as high as it was during that time and after. Even wearing all black after that was viewed as insensitive.The silver lining in all that was at least people left me alone instead of making me the butt of in-jokes. They were too worried they'd turn me into another Columbine. Which of course they never were going to be able to do. On the one hand, I resented the Columbine kids for turning the spotlight on goth kids. On the other hand, I was happy for what I perceived as respect/fear that came along with it. Yes, at the time I was an edgy teenager, so it was easy to make the event all about me.

I was a sophomore when this happened. I was also one of the only goths at my school. A lot of people started thinking I'd do the same thing and a senior who always wore a trench coat was asked to stup wearing it. He did so, respectfully, though he noted that he had every right to wear it and was only stoppig out of respect for the victims and to make others feel more comfortable at the school.

I agree with Sue. We do glorify the "bad guy". I can remember the names of Bonnie and Clyde, but if you ask me to name the officers who took them down I can't.

Thank you Caitlyn for taking on such a heavy subject so fearlessly and candidly, and not shying away from the gun problem...

i love the channel but after watching Sue Klebolds Tedtalk, I think she and her husband may have been more responsible for the shooting by ignoring her kids dangerous and alarming cues, and she also denies any blame or remorse for the situation that her son caused.

“They were bullied for listening to Marilyn Manson and wearing black trench coats” I’ve never understood that excuse. I’ve always been bullied for being goth, listening to dark music, and wearing trench coats; and I’d never hurt anyone. There was much more wrong with those boys than their style or music taste.

In 2000 myself and some of my 'goth', 'troubled' friends were sent home and told not to come back dressed in black. My mom ripped the Principal a new asshole, that day. I was so proud of her. Love you, mom!

As a genx goth this made my life hard for many many years

As a kid born in the 50's and grew up with guns, I learned at an early age the responsibility of owning a weapon. That's what is missing in today's society. A gun of any kind can not work without a person to either pull the trigger or set up a mechanical system to remotely set of the trigger. Goes to the old saying " Guns don't kill, people do.

I survived one of these. I was and am in a wheelchair. It was at my college. At the time, I was living in a shelter for battered women who were also homeless. School and the shelter were the two places I felt safe. My few trusted friends and all of my professors knew my situation in case something went bonkers or the people I was hiding from were looking for me. When it first started, I thought it was them who were involved. Myself, along with other disabled people present that day were unable to leave for 5+ hours. I still hear the sounds of the weapons and fellow students. I already had PTSD from the abuse I went through and this one made it worse/another PTSD event. My professor stayed with me the whole time until I got back to the shelter to help me feel safe again. The shelter put a ban on people talking about it and told the others if they wanted to read the papers/talk about it to do so far away from my presence. A good friend of mine took me out of town for about five days so that I would not be surrounded by media/people talking about it. Their dog knew I was hurting. He did not leave my side the whole time. They literally had to pick him up and bring him outside to do his business. He was half german shepard, half border collie (so a big boy). If my wheelchair moved even one inch, he'd take one step to be sure to ALWAYS be next to me, I am not exaggerating. I did not want to know the person's name. I did not want to hear about their life. I wanted (and still do for every event like this) to know about the victims. The news should not be talking about the people who do this and instead talk about the victims and the survivors. When reporting the news, they should say something along the lines of "There has been a(n) [event like this] at xyz school. There was XX amount of perpetrators but they killed themselves/died because of police cross fire/been taken into custody to face charges/etc..." (Note: I STILL have to refer to the events by a name other than an event or "one of these" that is why in my above statement about reporting on the event(s) I call it an "event like this"). I am almost certain that the number of school events like this would diminish if people stopped talking about the people who commit these acts. Part of why they do it this way (Other than going to a field to commit suicide) is because they know the media like to report all the "juicy" details of the people who do this and not the victims. I also know not all of them then kill themselves but I'm generalizing for simplicity.

I think the narrative Sue thinks of her son is how she copes, if you watch Dylan and hear stories he was just as violent and sadistic, especially when people were dying he taunted people all the same. They had different personalities and Eric was more manipulative but the level of "evil" to do this was shared

I hate the idea that Dylan was "just suicidal" and Sue "didn't know." She's done a great PR campaign. However, she was aware enough to put her son on medication, be afraid of him at times, and write in her diary about these things. She KNEW he was suicidal and her claiming she didn't is absolutely insane. Another thing, Dylan was the FIRST to mention and write about NBK, their codename for the shooting. HE was annoyed Eric copied him on certain things. HE called Isaiah the N word. HE was the one who taunted Kyle. HE was the one on a LOT of stuff. His "innocent suicidal boy turned school shooter" is the most insane turn of events.

Glad that you credited Dave Cullen’s “Columbine.” For anyone interested in Columbine, I couldn’t recommend that book enough. It really is the definitive history. No bs, just the facts. - A clarification on Cathy Burnall - she didn’t say yes or no. She was never asked the question. She was killed without any conversation.

Pretty pissed that Cassies father came to my high school and gave a 2hr presentation to the whole school telling the "she said yes" story.

I am so happy that Mrs. Klebold has been able to work for good against what her son did. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for her, even now.

Sue was warned by the parents of the other boy that he was violent and dangerous and she shouldn't let her son around him. She ignored it and didn't pay attention and let so much of the terrorism be planned on her property and now tries to keep pushing that Dylan was a good kid who actually hated Eric but was dragged along for the ride. She's awful

I keep coming back to this video. You are an amazing, insightful lady and, like with all of your videos, I learn much.

I am incredibly impressed with Sue Klebold, and how she has used this tragedy to open peoples eyes to the truth of what happened. Instead of hiding in a place of shame! You did an awesome job on this, thank you!

I admire that Dylans mother is doing what she does. Everyday she must be reminded what her son did and the pain he caused.

my school got a threat from a kid and no one took it seriously. the whole day people (the boys mainly) were setting off those paper popper things and making everyone panic-y. the principal finally heard of the situation and from what i was told expelled the kid. most of the police officers didn't do anything though and played it off as a sick joke, thank goodness for my principal and the only officer who took it seriously because i recently found out the kids whole plan. he was going to do it during 6th hour, he sat right behind me.. :/

It blows my mind that it's taken this long for me to get the facts. Thank you sincerely.

The biggest thing that came out of Columbine was a change to police procedure so that they went in to confront the killers immediately... oh, wait, never mind.

Sue Klebold has done a lot of good. Her honesty and efforts to mental health has saved lives in more ways because of her son.

Caitlin, you have done the world a huge favor in addressing the need for mental health research. I proudly support The Brain and Behavior Research Foundation every year. If only we could all imagine a world without mental illness!

I’ve watched this video several times over the years. It’s still difficult for me. Thanks for your earnest and honest perspective.

Time and time again, I am astounded by how well you discuss sensitive topics in your videos. Your content is very much appreciated!

OH so they're the reason why parents and news anchors all believe that violent games turn kids into serial killers.

I was in middle school when this happened and had been born in Colorado so it was the first time I felt old enough to understand and have some tangential connection to something on the news that also dealt with kids who weren’t adults hurting others. It hit me hard. I was already terrified of high school. I remember everyone trying to villainize Marilyn Manson and Eminem in the aftermath. The media terrified parents. Life for kids, especially any of us who were not in that popular clean cut group, was hard for a while. Any weird doodles we drew, any music we listened to, movies we watched, friends we had… were heavily scrutinized for signs of “going Columbine”. Instead of taking measures against gun control, they made the kids and the music/video games/movies we consumed into the bad guys. Instead of the adults of the world taking accountability, they looked at kids for blame. Instead of worrying about how they were able to get access to bomb building material and multiple high powered weapons, they tried to blame music, video games and kids. I remember Marilyn Manson went on a late night conservative talk show and the host asks him all these inane questions and tried to trap him. My opinion on him and his music is neither here nor there, but he IS a very smart person. The host asks “well what you have said to them?” Marilyn said “I wouldn’t say anything, I would’ve listened. Because no one else did.” And that’s the truth of it. Instead of doing that, listening to us and letting us work out our weird periods when our bodies and lives are changing, our emotions are all over the place, we don’t know where we fit into the world, we want more control of our lives but we have minimal life experience… middle and high school are incredibly challenging times for kids. Instead of doing what needed to be done and listening to us and limiting people’s access to firearms etc, they placed the blame on us and watched our every move, interpreted our thoughts, words and actions completely wrongly, accused us and only ever created an environment of distrust with access to guns. Nice job, guys. I don’t blame the parents- the media frightened them for their children. I do blame the media and the politicians, and the government at large. This is the best video I’ve seen on this topic, and I appreciate the honesty and most of the discussion in the comments. No one is going to agree on everything and that’s ok, but it isn’t ok to loudly spew hate and misinformation and then completely close your eyes and ears and refuse to listen to anyone else’s opinion. I genuinely hope that one day we can come together and change this entire situation for the better and for the next few generations. I have my own children now and I wish I had all the answers and could promise them complete safety at school but I can’t and that hurts.

Excellent video, and a welcome change to what we seem to usually here. Viewed here over the other side of "the pond" it is very hard to wrap your head around the sheer scale and frequency of shootings in the US.

I am and was a goth. I was 19 when this happened. And because these guys were called Goths. My friends and I were attacked and harassed for months after. A friend of mine had a rock thrown at his head during a funeral. My neighbour and friend had a group of people planning to show up to his house and assault him. And I was followed several times including when I was pregnant with my first child. Thankfully I was not alone because these people yelled at me and were very intimidating.

I’m so glad you put Sue Klebold’s story in this. She really didn’t deserve all the hate she got, and still gets, I’m sure. Such a sweet woman who went through the worst thing imaginable. She lost her child and then had to deal with her child ripping other children away from their families. Because in the end, she lost just as much as every other family that day. If not more, because she lost the right to grieve because of her sons actions. She does such great work and I’m incredibly proud of her.

sue klebold is not someone we should be looking to for anything, she to this day downplays her sons role in Columbine and hers as a mother.

“We lost count a while ago” and this is 4 years ago :

It's kinda surprising that the religious would latch onto "I believe in God. " instead of--or better yet, as well as--"I believe in God. "

Sue Klebold seems like an absolute angel of an individual. I watched her Ted Talk, and it seems like she has dedicated her life to prevent anything like that ever happening again.

I am glad you got all of the details exactly right. I've read through a transcript of the pdf file of the police interviews (which includes a nearly-excessive use of the verbiage " advised that..."). Fascinating to see firsthand how so many people can remember everything so differently, but also how trauma like that affects peoples' memory is saddening. But also whenever my best friend and I had discovered Brooks Brown's blog, it was harrowing to say the least, and he's well-spoken. But the fact that my best friend and I looked at each other and were like, "nah... We share similarities with being interested in the 'Anarchists Cookbook' like them, and also like 'violent' videogames, but that's as far as it goes. We theoretically could, and so could anyone, but we have absolutely no desire to do so." I can understand that mindset to a very small extent, but do not agree with it at all. People want to be heard, be known, be 'understood', and sometimes will do ANYTHING to get it. It is sadly a shame and abhorrently disgraceful that this was the avenue they chose. Being a teenager can be and is tough, but taking the lives of others and hurting MANY more, is no excuse. It is selfish and it is wrong.

I really appreciate the unbiased video clearing up all the myths and misconception’s it actually addressed the biggest issue and best of all it had no politics

I remember being asked if i was part of trench coat mafia when this happened. People were really looking to blame the weirdos

I was a sophomore in Austin, TX when this happened and less than a week afterwards I was "randomly selected" for questioning and a counselling evaluation along with all the other students who found dark fabrics fashionable.

Wow! You have shed some light on a piece of history I had been deceived on! Thank you!

I didn’t know any of this. Thanks for sharing.

I was a sophomore that year but I remember our school implemented IDs you had to wear around your neck with your parents name and phone number on back, so they could call them if you were shot. We also had lockdown procedures about a year after and if you were between classes during one you had to go to your next class (even if it was across campus), the teachers at your last class were not supposed to let you in even if it was closer. They banned trench coats and friends who could be considered goth were picked on even more. It had a big impact on my life. I remember even planning what I would do in a shooting, how to get out or hide.

When you showed that old photo, of Sue Klebold and a younger version of Him, sitting at a kitchen table together looking completely normal, really punched me with a strange, powerful emotion. Just wow.

Wild to see every comment made in the last two months be regurgitations of some guy's video about Sue Klebold.

Always interesting and informative, thank you.

I'm so glad that someone with a platform is busting the myths aroung this horrific event. We can never fix a problem if we believe the wrong causes.

*"I wouldn't say a single word to them, I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did."* - Marilyn Manson When asked what he would say to the poeple in the Columbine community.

Amazing video and analysis! Thank you!

This was so well done. Thank you.

I 10000% agree with the not naming the shooters/murderers thing. If you think about it, it is so horrible having to see these people’s faces and stories plastered everywhere. I believe that as long as there’s money in publishing all this information (for news outlets etc.), it will never stop.

I heard a podcast recently about an autistic high school boy who was essentially run out of his school by administrators because he wore a dark duster style coat-not a trench coat at all. Someone told admin that the coat made them nervous. The coat was a gift from the boy's grandmother and had lots of pockets, which he liked as he carried his various supplies in it. He was essentially tagged as a potential school shooter based on essentially no evidence at all. I think the podcast was on "This American Life" or "Snap Judgement" but I don't recall off hand which. But it's really a sad story.

It's great to see someone bringing some nuance to this conversation.

Thank you for covering this. My grandchildren are in kindergarten and first grade. They had their first shooter drill last week. I’m angry, frustrated and afraid for them… for all the children and people living in fear of the criminally insane.

It’s terrifying to know that so many school shootings took inspiration from columbine

Yes! In a Public Health Law class, our final “paper” was to propose a public health law, and I picked a “no name, no pics in the media for mass shooters” law. I now hear more people having the same idea, which is great. Not a cure all, of course, but this is already done by many journalists in Europe, when covering those accused of but not convicted of a crime.

I know this is an old one, but you make the best content on KZfaq.

Caitlyn, I gave mad respect for you giving honor & respect for the dead to get the facts & events right.

I was a goth in middle school, and a member of an Anti-Bullying group named "Friends of Rachel" Founded by those who were "Honoring" one of the Columbine victims. That group did Absolutely nothing to help with bullying, and instead was very judgy about my personal style and interests. So I left.

As somebody that struggled with depression and suicide that had a not so nice friend... its amazing how easy and impressionable you become. Its shockingly easy to become isolated, dependent, and unwaveringly loyal to somebody that knows how to manipulate you. Its difficult to explain, but I felt obligated to listen and obey because I needed them, I was lucky to have such a "great friend", they knew best. I wont go into much detail, but I carry lots of trauma from that period in my life, mostly from that "friend". I was lucky to have a different friend to help pull me out of that situation and a fantastic support system to help me get to a good place in life.

The uncanny resemblance to the shooters to the killers in scream is terrifying

A really good analysis about society today. I'm impressed of your skills to say enough in less than 15 minutes

I was in high school when Columbine happened too. The aftermath was just SOOO weird. I had a friend who wore a raincoat, not a trenchcoat, to school every day. Every. Day. for at least a year. Teachers knew he wore it. The day after Columbine the principal caught him by the arm and told him that he was out of dress code for wearing a "trenchcoat." My friend corrected him that it was just a raincoat, not a trenchcoat, and there was nothing in the dress code about either. The principal marched him off to the office where they dusted off the dress code and read it. Of course there was nothing in there about any kind of coat. The principal let him go but told him he would be changing the code soon. My friend told him, "Fine, and until then, I'll keep wearing my coat." I always thought ill of our principal for that, but as an adult and a parent I now understand that the poor man was just absolutely terrified something was going to happen to the students and was just going nuts doing anything he could to stop what he probably thought was inevitable.

After Columbine happened the faculty at our school always gave the goth kids kind of a hard time. The fact that a friend of mine always wore a trenchcoat didn't help. They just presumed we were dangerous.

Wow you really think that Dylan was a poor sheep following around an evil man instead of an equally despicable monster? Because his mom says so?

This happened when I was in eighth grade. I got called to the office more than once for "suspicious activity."

Perpetuating myths about tragedy only creates more tragedy. Thank you for taking the time to set the record straight, Caitlin.

You handle these topics with such grace and class. Thank you, Caitlin. Loves from Idaho!

Sue is a narcissist who does not take responsibility for badly parenting her son. She turned a blind eye to what he was doing and who he associated with. Now she gathers attention and feeds off of her sons heinous acts.

Your video was very eye opening. Thank you!