I popped in in the middle of Howard’s opening ramble. It was legitimately the most insane thing I’ve ever seen

At the end he said" i am not here to debate, i am hre to get my message out". That says all you need to know. It is truly a shame that you are asked to debate these people. You are an exellent debater and deserve to have an opponent worthy of your time.

Howard is definitely a poster child for the saying "if you open your mind too much your brain falls out"

This was such a nightmare, Matt. I literally stood up and clapped my hands when you walked out. What a tragedy.

If you see a car crash victim with a mangled leg you don't have to be a doctor to see that they need help. Likewise, you don't have to be a psychologist or therapist or neurologist to see Howard needs help.

"As soon as you discard scientific rigor, you're no longer a mathematician; you're a numerologist." - Sol Robeson

Never expected you to walk out of a debate, but damn if I’m not glad you did. I listen to a lot of your debates while driving as I’m a FedEx driver. So I tend to space out and it becomes white noise here and there. This debate I kept dialing back in when he said the most batshit things. I’m glad you left. The fact MDD platforms him is, like another commentor in the debate said, unethical. Just ridiculous.

Kudos for getting up and walking out, Matt. Modern Day Debates should be ashamed of themselves for not vetting your debate opponent.

Gives a whole new meaning to "God hardened their hearts."

I'm literally done with MDD after this one. When you're platforming these types, it's not debate its just clickbait. I can't believe after everything we've been through there, we'd match this guy up with Matt. It wouldn't take 5 seconds to know this conversation would be pointless. Rubbernecking trainwrecks isn't helping anybody but MDD.

I could hardly believe what he was saying and I thought he must be trolling. You were so right to walk out

When I heard that Matt walked out of a debate my initial thought was that it is a bad look to walk out because it gives your opponent the opportunity to claim victory… Then I watched the debate… Matt was completely correct to leave

I feel like being a flat-earther should disqualify someone from being involved in anything approaching a serious conversation right off the bat. The vast conspiracies required for someone to believe in young-earth creationism are bad enough...but outright denying something that can be demonstrated to children in grade school? Nah, man.

Matt you handled things beautifully (I say this as a retired academic who witnessed too many bad debates over the years as well). That situation with Howard was so painful to observe, and I applaud you for making an honest effort to engage. You were respectful as well even though he attempted to focus on you personally not the debate topic(s) (typical poisoning of the well). You stayed for over an hour, and I think it was more than clear that Howard was not discussing the debate topics, and that Howard should not be plat formed by MDD as there are very serious issues there (it’s not fair - I don’t think Howard is aware of how delusional his claims are and grasping basic concepts was a challenge for him - this was depressing)

I hope Modern Day Debates also takes at least a little (but more fairly a lot) of responsibility for allowing the debate to happen. My jaw dropped when he claimed heart shaped rocks were proof because they were ACTUAL hearts. And the red flag of "many people are starting to say." That's almost a full on code word for conspiracy theories.

I think the responsible thing for the community to do is to just stop watching MDD until they come out and say they'll do a better job of vettting their own debaters. Matt isnt the one responsible for vetting the people who show up on MDD. The people that run that platform are the ones who should be held responsible.

Bravo on providing the kindest, most charitable viewing of the interaction and your interlocutor. It’s so easy to get caught up in the moment, to get fired up, to lose sight of consideration even when the person your dialoguing with doesn’t adhere to the same standard, but your display of patience in the moment and willingness to reflect in such a thoughtful fashion afterwards are just two of many, many reasons I am such a huge fan of your work. Thank you so much for what you do and how you do it!

No, you were totaly right , he needs help... I was actualy interested in debate after while as it went to crazy levels so i was hoping for some fun, but it went to absolute madness levels after that and it felt like it was impossible to have any real discussion with him. So you did good to just end it.

I wondered, "why hearts?". Is there another stream somewhere that's full of fossilized gallbladders?

I am amazed you lasted as long as you did.

You could shine a light through Howard's ears

Since your debate w Howard, the algorithm has put some of his previous debates in my feed. HFS! The young earth nonsense, the denial that dinosaurs existed, and he brings up the "heart shaped rocks" in all of them before delving into any and every conspiracy theory you can imagine. 😂

You should probably vet your opponents on MDD. They platform awful people and some folk who could be mentally ill.

Glad u walked out. That was ridiculous.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure soft tissue like hearts don't petrify or fossilize like that. It also begs the question, what other body parts got petrified in the "flood?" Why don't we find skulls or femurs in abundance at the surface level?

I was excited when MDD was first starting out, but I haven't been able to watch it for a looooooong time now because of the way it's run/modded.

Matt, I am generally upset that this happened to you. What an absolute waste of time.

You're right that platforming these unhinged individuals is a huge issue. I'm glad you are putting more weight into vetting future debate opponents. Debates like these recent ones is going to cause way more harm than good.

I bet it went something like this from The Simpsons... Judge Schneider: Do you have any evidence at all?” Lionel Hutz: “Well, your honor, we've got plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are 'kinds' of evidence.”

"Modern day debates" just made their platform a complete joke. There have been lots of questionable debaters before too, but this was off the charts crazy. No serious debater should even consider taking part in anything on that platform again.

Honestly glad that you pulled a Mclatchie on this one. I agree that you can't or shouldn't diagnose Howard from a far. But for similar reasons, its never a good idea to accept a fight challenge from an eight year old.

Owen Morgan says something to the effect of, individuals like this exhibit behavior that is nearly indistinguishable from those with mental health issues. However, unlike persons with legitimate mental health issues, these peoples symptoms were learned over time and cannot be treated medically/with drugs.

MDD has a very laissez-faire, brain-dead way of hosting debates. There's no moderation at all. No attempt to build a productive and coherent exchange of ideas. So many of their 'debates' are just personal attacks. Hell, literally in their most recent debate, one of the debators spent the entire debate calling their opponent a whore and nothing was done about it. Absurd

I'm so glad this was addressed. This was so frustrating to watch & I'm glad Matt put this out. Edit: I want to put this out there too. Matt was put in an impossible position because he was paired with a person who had bad intentions and irrational (and I'd argue irresponsible too) arguments. He was dishonest and Matt's only recourse was to walk out or stay and possibly make the opposition's stance seem reasonable. I hope I don't see MDD make shorts in the hopes of attracting views but we'll see. The whole debate should be considered as an episode that is just shelved.

I’ve listened to several debates involving Howard. Each one has been a dumpster fire, by turns hilarious and disturbing and always completely ludicrous. The first time I heard him....I was driving....I had to pull over because I was laughing too hard. The problem with MDD is that they seem like they’re pitching for the dumpster fires, because they get buzz and views and create conversation. The moderation is generally terrible, if the mods even bother at all, and the guests they get in are often fringe even among the fringes. The mods don’t seem to do anything about how bad it gets. Tbh I’m surprised and a little impressed that Matt stuck with it for an hour. Howard is so awful and his arguments are so preposterous that having him on was an insult to Matts time, and that of the audience.

You don’t owe that guy an apology. He is either a troll and doesn’t believe what he says, and therefor shouldn’t be taken seriously. Or he truly believes everything he says, and therefor shouldn’t be taken seriously. Either way, he needs help. And I have zero problems saying that.

Always enjoy listening to your ideas around rationality and irrationality. Your clarity is appreciated. 🌟. 👍

Having seen Howard debate previously I had an idea of how his arguments were going to go. I was glad that you left the debate, it was the right thing to do.

Thanks for this review, Matt. I hesitantly watched about 10 minutes (if that) of this "debate". I quickly realized it is just one of those BS-shows put on by Modern Day Debate. Modern Day Debate is for the most part only interested in eyeballs and dumpster fires. It's about money; not honest debate. Howard Stirrup, bless his sole, lives is an alternate reality. He'll probably take this comment as a compliment - which ironically explains it all.

The way Howard leaned back and relaxed and got this "Aha, I gotcha' face" on when you responded to his opening presentation of pure insanity, and pretty much held it the whole time without even once raising an eye brow, let alone blink more than twice over the whole ~10 minutes, I knew there was nothing but a big "VACANCY" sign up there! You would have been cruel not to end it! Did you watch him field the chat questions? Oh my!😢

Unfortunately Matt, that’s not the first time Howard has been on MDD

You are a hero, being the better being!

What Howard Stirrup said after you walked away from the debate which was the right decision gave me the impression Howard wasn't all that there because the things he said afterwards no normal or sane person would say or come out with

I was looking forward to this review. Watching the "debate" was hard to endure. I cannot imagine how it must have felt to actually being part of it. Very understandable to walk out of it.

I found a rock shaped like Dracula - Flat Earth Confirmed.

Wow, this was such a kind summary of what was the most confused opening to a debate I have ever witnessed! This guy was so far off the mark it was scary how he had found people to back his ideas up. It sounds to me that he has gone down a youtube rabbit hole and got stuck in his own land of wonder.

Oooo a serious shitshow to walk away from. Matt, i thank you for all your patience 🙏 you are a role model for the modern-day man.

Honestly after this debate My only question is how strong is connection between conspiracy theory and religion?

Thank you for your content, Matt.

Thank you Matt for your rational, clear and critical thinking and your ability to express it in an understandable way. I love how your mind works. Thank you for the debates you present.

Well said, keep doing your amazing work

You are the most viewed debater. You give value to all the other crap on there.

Oh my dog. He was a Mudfossil U. graduate.

I only had to hear a couple of words from that debate before I knew it was pointless to continue.

Lol great description

Thank you for that, Matt. Your empathy for Howard shows your for love humanity. As a Psych RN, I recognize that delusions are on a spectrum with societal norms as a backdrop. For example, the believe that Zeus actually throws thunderbolts maybe considered delusional. Whereas, Mohammed on a winged horse can be considered perfectly reasonable in an Islam country. Who needs “help”? The person that won’t drink or bathe due to fear of electrocution from Zeus’ thunderbolts.

I encountered people similar to this. At some point, I wanted to have conversations with them about certain subject, but was always uncomfortable to do it and now I see why. I would not know even where to start. It almost feels like speaking different languages. This debate was unfortunately set up for failure from the beginning.

My brain hurts because I've done too much thinking today. Thanks for giving me an excuse to think more

29:22 "There's not enough tin foil.. in the world.. to make a hat.. that would protect *any* of us from what this individual is talking about"

Wow I'm here early!!! Time to make popcorn

About the "you need help" comment. I had serious mental health problems. As a child all I was told from my parents was "you're evil, the devils spawn, always ruining everything" etc etc. Surprisingly none of that helped in anyway! As an adult I started getting told by strangers that I needed help. It was a spectrum from publicly, mockingly or viciously saying it, to saying it privately with care and concern. Eventually after hearing it enough times I actually did get help! It's now 25 years later and I've had a ton of counselling and psychotherapy, and I'm on the right medication 🤗 If I had never been told I need help, I may never have gotten any and I'm almost certain that I would not be here today! I get why Matt thinks he shouldn't say that, but like how religious people won't deconvert after one conversation, I do believe stating facts here could be a small part of someones recovery. TL;DR: Don't kick yourself too hard if you tell someone they need help. It could be what they need to hear.

It wasn’t a debate. It was a mentally ill man talking at Matt

I'd love to see Matt debate our New Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. Johnson is a YEC and believes the Buybull literally. In fact, he wants to have the whole country believe just like him. and he is a science denier, thinks evolution is a lie and teaching it has caused the decay of the country's morals. Johnson really needs a session with Matt.

This was awful, and the sad thing is that the upcoming debate with Bigpoppafascist Andrew is gonna be just as bad.

You can't debate or reason with crazy! 😅

I really wanted to know if these heart shaped stones were shaped like

I saw the debate and it was a train wreck. I was going to comment about heart shaped rocks, mainly the icon we have of a heart shape is not what the human hear looks like. The human heart has the shape of a strawberry 🍓 not a heart ❤

"There's not enough tinfoil" 😂

Matt, you did your best and the vast majority around here will agree that you made a good decision by walking out. I must also applaud you for admitting where you made a mistake by saying that Howard needs help (even though that's what we all thought at that moment). Hope MDD won't platform these guys anymore, it will do this type of persons much harm in many ways by platforming them.

Thanks again for leaving this debate, perfect! We heard enough of this guy by that point. Now Alex/cosmic skeptic and other debaters could follow suit when they're being misrepresented to their face.

Your time is yours. Guard it with due diligence folks

Production notes: The green screen is reflecting back on host causing "ill" look. Couple small wash lamps either side on host should overpower reflected green and provide clean image of the talent.

I was hoping this was the review about Pedokatchu!!! I cant wait to watch that one!

I saw that debate up till you left and no kidding you should have left. My mouth was wide with disbelief at how crazy that guy was.

Well said Matt. And that was a bizarre debate to watch is all i'll say on that

SciManDan says: "I don't debate established facts". And he's absolutely correct.

Let me get this straight: in the year 2023 people still believe that an immortal super-being in the sky literally watches our every move, during our life, as well as “before” and after it, and sends us to eternal torture for not unconditionally loving it. Huh!?!?!?

I heard in the aftershow that Howard said he couldn't attend the after show, because he was going to celebrate the victory.. 🤦

I was looking forward to how you would analyze this absolute dumpster fire.

Right from the beginning of that debate, I quickly realized Matt didn't actually vette his opponent. I was really amazed at Matt's patience along the line trying to salvage the debate. At the end of the day the blame should go to the Morden Days debate team, they would have seen this coming. I hope they do better next time.

I love how the review of the debate is half as long as the debate itself. lol

My mom is paranoid schizophrenic and she is alway connecting unrelated things which leads to off the wall claims... howard sounded exactly like that...

Yeah....that really had to have been a rough place to be in. And good to reconsider who you choose to debate.

I agreed with you completely that he should not be given a platform. I’ve seen him “debate” a few times, and it’s just a disaster each and every time. It appears that there isn’t a single conspiracy that Howard doesn’t buy into. And that’s part of the problem here: The “Goldwater Rule”, and how it as affected society. While I agree that most people should not be diagnosed from a distance, there absolutely are exceptions to this. If somebody is walking around in Napoleonic clothing and saying that it’s 1812 and that they are Napoleon, you don’t *really* need an official diagnosis to know that something is fundamentally broken with their brain. It doesn’t mean that they should be treated as sub-human, or threatened, or have stones thrown at them, but it does mean that it is completely irrational to say that you don’t know enough to say whether or not that person needs medical help. I know that this has been abused all throughout history, especially when it comes to atheists, homosexuals, and many other minorities. But we’ve sort of thrown the baby out with the bathwater here. Under these “rules”, no one can *ever* diagnose Hitler or Stalin as having been completely insane - because we’re all doing it at a distance. It’s not as if we have records of any psychologists or psychiatrists who were diagnosing them at the time. That is, of course, the extreme example, but it still holds. And it is disingenuous to say that the rule should apply to everything and everyone. It shouldn’t. There are obvious exceptions. Howard is one such exception. He definitely suffers from a number of psychological conditions to arrive at the beliefs which he has. And to say that out loud should not be a condemnable offense in any way.

I wouldn't beat yourself up over the "You need help" comment. You didn't try and diagnose him with anything and it doesn't always take an expert to notice when something is off. I can tell when my truck needs work and I'm not a mechanic. But once I have noticed, I do then take it to said mechanic.

I was fully expecting Matt's ridiculous opponent to impale himself, sitting on his bizarre number wheel and spinning himself dizzy while cackling maniacally.

MATT! "The best disinfectant is sunlight". All ideas should be allowed to exist and be heard because it allows it to be heard by others outside of that persons normal circle and then is open to being criticized by the masses. 👍 👍

The problem is that Howard wasn’t there to debate. He said so himself. He has been on mdd before saying “I’m not here to debate”. I don’t know why they give him the time and space.

Based on the last 10 debates it seems modern day debates is going out of their way to platform flat earthers.

OMG, I just watched that train wreck. I loved the end where the moderator would read the comments/questions that asked why you would put up with him. BTW, the ark is real, the earth is flat, heart shaped stones PROVE God! /s

When Howard started talking about Dracula I fuckin lost it lol

"...in his... whatever it was that he was presenting" sums it up quite well 😂

A very reflective and humble analysis. Yeah the guy was unfortunate and deluded but I'd maintain that he STILL deserves to be mocked for his smugness alone! The guy was an idiot!

I was listening along as I usually do, and then I hear “pi and phi” and my brain jams. But it gets so, so much worse.

I don't always agree with your points or points, but I always respect them. It's really shame MDD has chosen the path they've chosen.

I think saying, "you need help" sounds reasonable.

It was embarrassing. He had no ability or desire to debate.

I view this debate as a learning experience. I admit that I have quoted Matt when discussing topics on Atheism, but I learned an important lesson here as well. Once you are certain that your opponent is dishonest (and probably mentally ill), walk away!

You didn't make any mistakes Matt. One can only handle so much and this guy is clearly bonkers. Way to deep down an imaginary rabbit hole and you called him out for it. You did great and I don't believe you need to apologize, however I understand why you would want to. Firm handshake to you, Matt!

Lies of H.