Thank you

Mine 3.0 tdi 250hp audi a8 d4 does same rattle first 3-5 engine turns about 1 sec and goes away only when cold or when driven and let for 30min to stay off

@@afatsum3180 if the pressure needs to build up, something is already not working right. The pressure should be constant and chain tensioners shouldnt loose pressure. The rattling basically tells you that you need to replace the tensioners ASAP unless you want the engine to be destroyed by a lenghtened chain

I don't agree with you Anders. If this was normal, Audi would deliver the cars with this sound.... And they don't. 😊 My car has almost 360.000 km on it and I have replaced the tensioner at about 191.000 km. Never had the problem since and hopefully it will stay that way.

@@Apoindeed you can't expect oil pressure in the engine instantly, it's simply physically impossible given the design of the V6.

Anytime! 😊

A tip: If you want to hear the sound, you have to wait for the oil to drain from the tensioner. You can only hear it when the engine has been started for the first time after being shut off for a couple of hours. The second time, the tensioner has build up oil pressure and the chain is not loose anymore.

Hi Vanja, As stated in other replies, I have replaced the complete parts set as chains, tensioners, guides, etc. To fix the problem, you don't have to replace everything, but only the tensioners. I have done this out of precaution and because I plan to drive the car for a couple of years. To repair it, you have to get to the back of the engine and for that you have to take out the transmission. Audi guide states you should remove the engine and transmission which would make a couple of things easier, because it's easier to work on the engine on a bench rather then mounted on the car. If you have the equipment I would recommend to remove the engine and the transmission completely. Hope this will help you!

thx for the super quick reply:) i have a manual gearbox so i hope only taking it out will work...tnx for all the info.

Vanja Kokol Cheers! Anytime!

Damir Okanovic Pozzz druze. Imam isti problem vec 2/3 dana. Ali meni se desava samo ujutru kada ga upalim,kada je hladan. Posle normalno pali bez tog skripanja. Izgleda da im je to mana koliko sam mogo da primetim po komentarima.

Damir Okanovic Da li si menjao ceo set lance i spanere ili samo taj koji je popystio?

Katarzyna Walter It is possible to replace just the tensioner, but it's easier to remove the engine, replace the tensioner and put the engine back in the car. This is the procedure as Audi describes it. I didn't do this myself and ended up doing a lot of climbing in the engine compartment and a lot of up/down bridge movements. If I had to do it again, I would probably take out the engine and the gearbox and then do the work. It is easier to work on the engine when it is on the table, then when it's built in the car. It depends on what you prefer. Both ways are possible.

Bonjour j'ai une a6 c6 avec 334mkm j'ai le même problème au démarrage est-ce que je peux passer au 5w40 avec pdf

I have covered 50,000 km on Motul 5w40. So far no problems, DPF is good, egr is good. The engine runs smoothly and quietly. This was not the case with castrol oil, the engine is noisier with Castrol oil, and judging by youtube reviews and tests, castrol is one of the worst oils in terms of material wear because castrol is a mass production oil and you never know what you will get. Now I use the new oil from Motul 5w40 Xclean gen2 for diesel engines. This oil is made for engines with a DPF filter. I am from Croatia, and our climate is very hot. So 5w30 is like water in my car. My friend has an a6 3.0tdi with 350,000 km. same problem with sacatrol oil. He put Motul 5w40. The problem is reduced by 70%. a big improvement. you can try, you have nothing to lose. If it works great. If not, then it's time to change the chain

Ok je vais essayer le 5w40 j'ai remarqué que la chaine plus bruyante quand il fait chaud a l'extérieur donc je pense que la 5w30 est trop fluide et ne reste pas dans le tendeur

@@kristijanklancir8885hi kristijan can u send me the right name of this Oil i will try it Motul 8100 clean 5w40 gen2? Is this right?

I have replaced the chains and the tensioners. There is an official Audi repair article on how to deal with the problem. If I'm not mistaken, they first have to check the software version and do an update to the latest where the oil pressure buildup is done differently which gets the oil pressure inside the tensioner to the correct level so when the engine starts, it doesn't make the noise. If this doesn't work, the article recommends to replace the tensioner on the left side of the engine looking from the front or the right side of the engine looking from the rear of the engine. The tensioner also needs to be of a certain partnumber. I assume because the previous versions have the same problem. The reason I replaced everything is that the noise isn't the problem. It is the possibility of the chain lossening enough and finally jumping a tooth or more that might become a problem. This most certainly would break a couple of valves and other parts in the engine so you would need rebuild the engine completely. Kind regards, Damir

hi, indeed, that's my plan. How much km/time did you drive it like that before you got it fixed? Can it survive one winter? I am more asking because i know it takes time, not because saving money is any good, as often that leads to spending more in the end :)

And thank you so much for being that nice with your explanations :)

I just got my car from Audi today exactly this problem. They said the software needed an update as the timing sequence was incorrect. However I don't believe this even though the car seems to be much better I fear it may come back.

Hello Jozef, I didn't fix it yet. The problem did get worse. I'm planning on fixing it next month. If I get to it I will make pictures of the proces.

It´s interesting... I try update too and I will see. Thank you for answer.

The software update It did not work, so I booked the car back into Audi. There was a massive up roar as they said the car was remapped when it was not. They are now working on it apprently its a 23 hour job and they are replacing the timing chain and tensioners with modified tensioners and chain.

It´s not good news.. I fix it like you next month maybe. After job in Audi you can put here something about that.

Hoi Sven, HBT had uiteindelijk op het moment dat ik de reparatie nodig had, op dat moment geen tijd voor een afspraak en ik wilde het probleem voor de vakantie oplossen. Uiteindelijk heb ik het zelf gerepareerd, waarbij ik alle onderdelen die je in deze video ziet bij 14:05 vervangen heb: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gtunhrecrrHad5s.html. Deze onderdelen zijn alle glijrails, alle tandwielen, alle kettingen en de kettingspanner. Uiteindelijk is de oorzaak van het probleem de kettingspanner onder de rechter glijrail. Deze houdt op een gegeven moment geen oliedruk, waardoor deze na een tijd gestaan te hebben, bij het starten niet op spanning is en daardoor de ketting niet op spanning is. Bij starten hoor je dan een klapperend geluid. Om het probleem te repaereren zou je alleen de kettingspanner kunnen vervangen. Dit is ook voorgeschreven door Audi, de rest van de onderdelen hoeft in principe niet, ben ik achteraf achter gekomen. Heb zelf echter zekere voor het onzekere genomen en heb alles vervangen. Kost een paar 100 euro extra, echter ben je dan helemaal klaar met dit probleem. Zoals ik in deze thread ergens vermeld heb, dit is geen klusje voor een beginner als je het zelf wilt doen. Mocht je het zelf willen doen, koop dan de reparatie documenten bij Audi op de website: erwin.audi.com en neem deze goed door. Koop/huur ook het noodzakelijke specifieke gereedschap zoals de blokkeer pinnen, hulpgreedschap om de oliekeerring te plaatsen etc. En neem de tijd ervoor. Het is een precies klusje dat redelijk wat tijd in beslag neemt. Succes iig met de reparatie! Mocht je nog vragen hebben, laat het gerust weten. Groetjes, Damir

Bedankt Damir, Ik ken zelf wel wat van auto's maar om er zelf aan te beginnen lijkt me dit een onbegonnen taak, heb je de motor eruit gebouwd of de volledige neus van de wagen gedemonteerd? inderdaad voor een paar honderd euro meer kan je het maar beter goed doen als hij toch uit elkaar ligt, de mijne heeft er nu 132000km, zijn deze kettingspanners nu beter, of binnen een goeie 100000 km hetzelfde probleem? alvast bedankt. Mvg Sven

Sven Vertriest Hoi Sven, Er is een verbeterd type spanner gemaakt door Audi. Het onderdeelnummer heb ik als ik me niet vergis ergens in de comments genoemd. In de artikelen op de Erwin website staat dat exact. Of het probleem terugkomt is nu even koffiedik kijken. Ik heb het gerepareerd zodat ik iig met een beetje hoop 100.000 tot 150.000 km kan rijden zonder issues. Zelf heb ik tijdens de reparatie niet de motor eruit gehaald, maar alleen de versnellingsbak en de in de weg zittende onderdelen. Achteraf gezien zou het misschien makkelijker zijn geweest als ik de motor en bak eruit had gehaald. Kun je gewoon normaal werken zonder je rug te hoeven breken. :) Soms heb ik namelijk moeten zitten in de motorruimte om bij de zaken goed te kunnen komen. Qua werk was ik ca. twee dagen alleen bezig met het verwijderen van onderdelen om bij de achterkant van de motor te komen. Nu heb ik niet veel ervaring, dus ben daarin langzaam, je moet erop rekenen dat de hele klus als je volledig voorbereid bent ca. 5 dagen in beslag neemt. Groetjes, Damir

Ik pols wel even bij HBT wat ze mij voorstellen, of iemand die ervaring heeft in Belgie met dit soort werken. Mvg Sven

Sven Vertriest Zou ik zeker doen. In alle gesprekken werd ik heel goed geholpen.

Hi, Yes I have repaired it. I replaced everything, tensioners, wheels, chains. In hind sight only replacing the tensioners, (2x) is enough. This is also stated by the official Audi repair guide.

Damir Okanovic cost? thanks

i have the same problem. if i change only the tensioner , its ok?what do you think?

How much was it to replace?

Yes it’s the EGR valve

I couldn't agree more! 😊

They did that software update on mine maybe 3years ago, no improvement at all. and they never explained how a software modification could help on that mechanical problem. Now it's clear. Thanks. I have show that noise to 5 French official Audi dealers. Some say's me no, there no sound. Some say's me we don't know what it is, some say's me that it's the chain tensionner and guide. That it's very expensive as it requiere motor+gear box removal and many hours and at the end it could cameback quickly. Of course even my 5 years extended garanty is now ended. Audi tell's me by phone ( of course nothing write ) that if the problem became permanent, they will take main part in charge even out of garantie because I have open a case....What I can tell it's that I have that since maybe 40.000km and it's not increasing. It's just not sexy to get a V6 3.0 expensive high motor starting with the noise of a garden mover.

@@badrobot4935 Oh man, i feel sorry for you. That is a prime example of what I mean. A lot of shops/ mechanics started specializing in doing these timing jobs, maybe there is one in your area. They do this all day every day, so they can do it "cheap" and fast. At the dealer it is over 7k, at least what I have been told. Back in 2017 i found a shop that did it for 1680€. Engine out and everything. And no rattle since.

Pozdrav Adnane, Kako ti mogu pomoći?

@@DamirOkanovicQ Prije svega hvala na javljanju. Imao bih 2 pitanja, ako mozete pomoci: 1. Da li mozete poslusati zvuk motora na sljedecm linku i da li je to problem s lancem odnosno spanerom lanca (pretpostavljam da ako jeste, oboje se mijenja)? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iZ53nNplx9qRo3U.html 2. Da li ste vi neko ko se bavi popravkom istog ili mozete preporucit nekog kompetentnog za popravku? Hvala na odgovorima!

Hi, the engine code is CDUC. The problem occurs on all variations of the 3.0 TDI engine if I'm not mistaken. Whether it's fixed om the facelift edition and those engines I'm not sure.

Zdravo Zorane, da je to normalno, tako bi se čulo kad izađe iz fabrike. ;). To nije normalno za motor da radi tako i u jednom momentu može doći do preskakanja lanca, što u biti znači da će doći do velike štete na motoru. Problem i uzrok tog zvuka je španer za lanac koji posle gašenja motora izgubi pritisak i tako olabavi lanac. Sekund dva poslije paljenja ulje ponovo nabije pritisak u španeru i lanac se zategne. Posljedica svega toga je prijevremeno habanje lanca i drugih djelova u motoru, tako da će u jednom momentu nešto da "popusti". Kad je taj momenat, je teško reći i od toga zavisi jel sve "normalno" ili ne. Ja kao ljubitelj auta i mehanike i uz činjenicu da je se ovo meni desilo kad sam tek kupio auto sam zamjenio lanac, španer kao i sve prateće djelove. Tad je auto prešao 181.000 km. Sad je 330.000 na satu i nadam se da će preći još mnogo više. Dali da radiš nešto po tom pitanju zavisi od mnogo faktora, između ostalog koliko planiraš da voziš auto, itd. Jedna isto bitna stvar koju sam naknadno saznao je da su intervali mijenjanja ulja bitni u vezi sa ovim kvarom kao i sam španer koji je modificiran u više verzija upravo zbog ovog kvara. Verzija koju sam ja ugradio je izašla oko mjesec dana prije nego što sam ja radio svoj motor. A što se tiče ulja, iz jednog holandskog auto magazina sam pročitao da kvarovi vezani za lanac kod Fiat servisa koji su mjenjali ulje na pola propisanog intervala, se u biti nisu pojavljivali, a kod servisa koji su to radili po propisima i izvršavali 'longlife' servis, su se motori kvarili. Ja svoje ulje mjenjam na 15.000 km a ne na 30.000 kako je propisano fabrički. Nadam se da će ti ova informacija pomoći. Lijep pozdrav! Damir

@@DamirOkanovicQ Hvala Damire mnogo na odgovoru mora da se menja onda nema sta

Hi, This is indeed a common and known problem. Audi has a TPI for the repair of it. If you want to buy one, make sure that the repair has been done recently or repair it yourself and calculate this in the price. Either way, it's is costly, but worth it. I have the car for more than 2 years now and still love and enjoy driving it!

The chains need to be replaced every 250 000 km , so not that often :D

Great to hear that the problem was fixed! I am preparing myself for fixing the issue this weekend. I have allready bought the parts. I also found the article from Audi on erwin.audi.com where they describe this problem where as the first step to the solution they recommend a software update. If the software update doesn't help they recommend to replace the tensioner. To be able to check the tensioner there is a procedure described whereby you disconnect a sensor and start the motor. The disconnection of the sensor makes the oil pump, pump at full pressure thereby getting oil in the tensioner immediately and thereby identifying that the tensioner is the problem. After positive identification they recommend to replace the tensioner. I will try to make as much pictures as I can during the reparation and will make an article about it with the procedures, article numbers and what I came across during the repair. Wish me luck! :) P.S. As it seems at this moment this isn't a job for a beginner mechanic. Keep this in mind if considering reparing the issue yourself.

Luke Smith hi did replacing the timing chain and tensioner solve the problem?

Hi Shaun, Replacement of the tensioner has solved the problem indeed. There is also an official article which describes the problem and the solution. You can download the article (paid) officially from Audi at erwin.audi.com which describes the symptoms, the way you should check whether this is really the issue whith your own car and how to fix it. You can also find the repair articles at the same website. The solution in the case of the CDUC 3.0 TDI engine and is to replace the tensioner to resolve the problem. I did this, but also replaced the rest of the tensioners, chain support rails and the chains them selves. The only reason I did this was because it's a pretty big job to take everything apart and put it together. The cost of the job are about € 1.600 to € 1.700 with original parts from Audi and all fluids, filters, gaskets, seals, chains, tensioners and screws. I like to do things by the book so I replaced every screw, tensioner and everything that belongs to the distribution mechanism. You don't have to do this and Audi doesn't describe this in the article TPI 2035906/10. If you stick to the TPI article from Audi and only replace the tensioner, then the the costs of the parts are far less then I spent. Besides the parts you MUST prepare your self for the job by downloading the repair manual articles from erwin.audi.com and study them and follow them in detail to correctly do the job. It took me about three days about 20 hours only to disassemble everything and get to the back of the engine. Totally I spent about 60 - 70 hours on the job. If I am not mistaken Audi does this whithin 24 hours, about three days. My advice is to prepare yourself properly, get the parts, get a garage whith the right tools, buy or rent specific timing tools and patiently do everything step by step and label and organise everything not to loose track. You have to be an experienced mechanic to be able to do the job. Colleagues of a friend of mine that work at the dealer called me crazy because only their best mechanics do these jobs. I have some experience but most importantly I had a failsafe/fallback scenario with the help of a friend of mine who is an experienced mechanic and has done the job before. If you are not experienced or don't have an experienced help, DO NOT this job!! You may ruin the enige with the slightest mistake. Then I would recommend to get it done either by proffesionals like HBT Techniek (Holland) or your Audi dealer. The costs is about € 2.200 at a proffesional shop. Audi costs I don't know exactly, but are far more.

Damir Okanovic did u have to pay for it or was it under warranty? mine is now 4 years old outside warranty unfortunately. seems like a big job and very expensive

Hi Shaun, I updated my previous reply. My car is also 4 years old and is without warranty so I had to pay everything myself. I did this because I just bought the car and plan to drive it for a couple of years.

die steuerkette rasselte. meistens werden nur die spanner getauscht oder audi versucht das per software und öldruck zu fixen. Damir hat aber kette, spanner und alles was dazu gehört gemacht. finde auch das ist der beste weg.

Može, pokušat ću da pomognem. O čemu se radi?

@@DamirOkanovicQ , A 6 , 3.0 tdi , 2014. 60.000 km. Kupio sam sa defektom modula navigacije, popravim nakon 700 km , rikne alternator i akumulator. Pronjenimo novi akum. repariran alternator i na dijagnostici pokaze da ne puni na 14.6 vec non stop 11,6. netko imao slicne probleme ?? thx

yep. more like regurgitating gargle sound to me.

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Hallo Lukas, Das "nageln" ist nicht normal. Dies wird durch einen kaputte Kettenspanner verursacht, der verhindert, dass sich die Kette beim kalt starten spannt, weil nicht genügend Öl darin ist. Nachdem der Motor einige Sekunden gelaufen ist, baut sich der Öldruck auf und das Nageln stoppt. Anschließend muss der Kettenspanner ausgetauscht werden, um ein Überspringen der Kette zu verhindern. Mfg, Damir

@@DamirOkanovicQ danke für die schnelle Antwort! Beim zweiten Start meinst du doch, dass das Geräusch weg ist, aber für mich ist da trotzdem noch ein "nageln" zu hören. Hab gelesen, dass das ein normales "Diesel-Nageln" ist? LG

radakas1 Das ist das normale Geräusch der Steuerkette, die hört man einfach wenn der Motor läuft und die Haube offen ist.

Around 3000 EUR with General Engine check up and some smaller work on top

@@alexanderg9770 Who can do it for 3000 euro?

Ćao Nikola, pogledaj moj odgovor koji sam updravo na jedno pitanje napisao. Kao što sam tamo napisao, da nije problem svaki bi se tako čuo kad tek izađe iz fabrike. Ali dali je u pojedinačnim slučajevima problem zavisi od mnogo faktora, između ostalog koliko dugo planiraš voziti auto. Ja svog još uvijek vozim.

Where is the update :)?

So did you replace the chain and tensioners?

Drug, sad je na mom autu 396.000 na satu. I isti mi se je problem vratio. Vratio se prošle godine oko ljeta sa visokim temperaturama. To je oko 365.000 km. Vozio sam sve do sada međutim sada je došlo do te mjere da kada su visoke temperature, se veoma jako čulo i duže je trajalo. Kupio sam sredstvo za podizanje viskoziteta samo da traje do popravke i sad je auto u servisu... Mjenjanje svega ponovo... To znači oko 180.000 km sa mijenjanjem ulja svakih 15.000 km mijenjanje lanaca svih ostalih djelova...

​@@DamirOkanovicQ Pa to ti je to 200ak hiljada znaci. A zavisi i od voznje jbg ako laganije vozis duze ce trajati . Ako ga zajebavas i grublje vozis trajace krace ko i sve . Ali predvidjen rok trajanja je 200-250 000km

​@@DamirOkanovicQ reci mi koje ulje sipaš ? Ja sam ga kupio islo je 5w40 castrol od audija . Hocu da prebacim na 5w30 . Opet neko kaze ne valja castrol msm nemam pojma

+Luke Smith If you have warranty on the car I would do that. The Internet is filled with these videos and topics on the fora. If I'm not mistaken there is also a similar problem with the V6 petrol engine. But VAG isn't doing much about it. My car has 185.000 km on it and the chains are beginning to rattle. I will get it fixed when it gets worse. I have also seen other 3.0 TDI engines where this started at about 120.000 km. This while the chains aren't ment to be replaced.

+Damir Okanovic what year and model is your car? I will get It checked out and let you know. My car is 2014 audi a5, my girlfriends dad has 2011 q5 3.0 tdi he doesn't have the problem but then again they changed the engine in 2013. Thanks for replying

+Damir Okanovic also his car is 150,000 km mine is only 65,000 km

+Luke Smith I have an A6 from 2012. The mileage doesn't seem to matter that much. It's a PITA and I'm very dissapointed in the quality and the reliability of the engine. I love it, but this should never happend.

+Damir Okanovic I must admit it sounds like the starter motor overturning not like the timing chain.

Pošalji mi privatnu poruku pa da vidimo moguli šta pomoći.

Kako care ne znam gdje hehe imAs li fejs

Sta je bilo kod tebe

@@adnantekesic286 našli smo. Se. :) Kod mene je jednostavno bio spaner. Dio košta oko 40 eura, ali imaš puno posla ako hoćeš da odradiš sve kako treba. Ja sam tek bio kupio auto i vozim ga jos uvijek. Tad je prešao 191.000 km sad je 315.000 na satu. Zato što sam ga tak bio kupio, zamjenio sam sve djelove oko distribucije. Lance, vodilice i španere, zubčanike, sve... To košta i vremena i novaca ali u mom je slučaju bilo vrijedno. Posao nije prekomplikovan ako imaš iskustva sa popravkom tatvih stvari. Ako nemaš nediraj ništa jer jedna greška i motor možeš baciti. Ja sam sve instrukcije skinuo sa Interneta kod Audia. erwin.audi.com. Moraš platiti za to ali je vrijedno. Treba ti i nešto specijalnog alata, to sve piše u artiklima kod Audija.

@@adnantekesic286 Evo link gdje možeš da vidiš kako to izgleda na motoru. Ovo ti je zadnji dio motora.

Hello Amin, I can assure you this is not a normal TDI sound. Look at this video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qN6po7d2uN7Upn0.html This is a soundwave where you can see the difference between the first start and the second start. Every consecutive start after looks the same unless you leave the engine foe a while and then start it. The oil drains from the tensioner and the engine starts with a loose tensioner which results in the distinctive rattle sound. The car now has 350.000 km on it and I replaced the chains and the tensioner at 191.000 km. One thing I do to hopefully prevent the problem is change the oil at 15.000 km instead of the recommended 30.000 km.

Ja da hast du recht es ist der Kettenspanner den man am Anfang hört. Aber es gehört sich so die ersten paar Sekunden. Sobald es länger wird Kette und Kettenspanner wechseln lassen. Gruss

@@joni1749 ich hab ne frage. Ich fahr ein audi a5 3.0 tdi 245 Ps BJ 2013. Der macht die selben Geräusche beim Start nur wenn der Länder standt, z.b über Nacht, was ist deine Meinung kann man so weiter fahren oder sollte etwas getauscht werden?

@@miroslavzhekov2740 Ist bei mir genau gleich. Ich fahre immernoch und habe keine Probleme nur irgendwann werden wir den Kettenspanner die Kette usw wechseln müssen. Wie viel km hast du?

@@joni1749 148.000 km ist nicht so viel würde ich sagen

@@joni1749 hallo joni , ich habe auch die selben Gerüche für 1-2 Sekunden bei mein a6 3.0 l , Gersten musste ich ein Sache in mein auto reparieren. Und der Meister hat gesagt die Steuerkette hat bisschen Luft ( spielt bisschen) aber ich habe bis jetzt kein Probleme. Was meinst du soll ich das auto sofort verkaufen, oder ganz normal fahren. Danke

Hello, I agree with you! The main thing to prevent the problem is to change the oil every 15.000 km / 6.000 miles. I do this on all my cars. Unfortunately on my car, the previous owner didn't do this, so I had to replace everything. I also read an article in a technical automotive journal, where they wrote about Fiat dealers that had different maintenance practices for their cars. One part of the dealers changed the oil according to the Long Life interval (30.000 km (diesel)) the other part changed the oil according to the normal (15.000 km (diesel)) interval. The ones that changed the oil according to the normal interval didn't have engine / chain failures, while the ones that changed it according to the long life intveral did. This is of course from the begin of the maintenance of a new vehicle.

Just saw the video. Worth trying to flush the engine according to the video. The flush will cost you about a couple of hundred, while the replacement will cost you about € 2.500 (not at the dealer ;).