Thanks to MONIMOTO for sponsoring today's video! Visit monimoto.com to learn more and use code "CHAOSCAUSES" to get 10% OFF (for the next month only).

me watching this with a motorcycle life full of drum brakes🤣

One of the biggest advantage of radial calipers for racing is to enable easy swapping of disk sizes to switch between a wet and a dry setup, just using a spacer between the caliper and its mount. Radial master cylinders main advantage is probably just the dramatically different sizes of master cylinder bore and lever ratio

You know I never knew the difference, so thank you for a crystal clear presentation of the difference between them 😊

Very great video, the bike community is lacking of this kind of straight forward type of content

Great video! About stiffness on axial calipers, the one you have on your dirtbike is a sliding pin caliper. The pistons are on one side, and the entire caliper moves to bite on the disc evenly (ish, pad wear is biased to one side) and there are two pins that it slides on. Opposed piston axial calipers are on older high performance bikes. Those are solidly bolted on. Alignment variations are far more difficult to deal with. Saying which is better between axial or radial, you made a good point about better materials, design and manufacturing. I would take a radial master all day, if they didn't stick out and hit the dash on older sportbikes. Semi-radial cylinders do exist for a compromise. (hope the next part is not too long!) Design example: Opposed piston calipers in the 80's were split, meaning each caliper piston side can be separated.Those have problems with bleeding, then you end up with a bit of a sponge because of all the passages the fluid has to go, a bleed block (push the pistons in almost all the way and chock them) is almost always needed. There's also some O-rings between the two halves, they rarely weep or leak but if they do hope there's a part for it. For a motorcycle example, take the FZR1000 and the 80's "Bike Of The Decade" FZR100R EXUP. Later in the 90's you start seeing "blue dot" calipers - those are monoblock as with all modern high performance calipers, but have a pipe running across the two sides at the bottom. Still not ideal, but better! Example would be the YZF1000R Thunderace. Real single piece axial calipers came later, as seen on the original YZF-R1 and R6. From there, the internal passages are similar to the radial calipers. Some (usually denoted with "gold dots", for reference your MT has "blue dots") has pistons that aren't steel or iron (presumed as aluminum, maybe titanium) and provide even better response with the weight reduction, plus no rust anymore! There's also this example. The first iteration FZR400 used two-pot front calipers, and needed great maintenance to stay biting sharp. The next iteration onwards came with four-pot units similar to the FZR750 and 1000 of the time, and those woes are not as prevalent. Same master cylinder. Radial master cylinders are an astounding upgrade for old axial calipers. A good investment, the improved feel pushes that confidence up in any situation. Beware of the fakes!

Thanks for finally saying out loud what most people don't understand right. Radial mastercylinders don't make breaking "stronger"! The Breaking force is determend by the breaking fluid pressure. Pressure is force/surface. Anyone who understands this will notice that the direction doesn't change anything here. Only the surface of the cylinder matters and the force that is applied to it. The force can be changed by the lever length. => it does absolutly not make sense to go for an upgrade radial master zylinder and than limiting it's effect by using a shorty lever, with decrease the amount of pressure you can put on the masterzylinder with your hand. higher quality components are usually nicer for the feeling tho

I’ve been around bikes all my life and often wondered what the difference was, but had never seen a clear explanation. Until now. Thank you.

From the geometrical point of view, axial and radial master cylinders are perfectly the same (only different points of alignment, but same relative-to-center-point movement, with the difference being that the radial shown in the video has a different type of adjust. If I'm wrong, please explain what really changes?

Cool video! I know how difficult it can be to come up with new a different ideas for videos (as you have mentioned in the past). This was great! 😎👍

How does “axial” vs “radial” master cylinders change the feel? From a physics perspective this makes no sense.

Very good timing. I was thinking about changing my brake caliper this afternoon . Well explained . Thanks😊

The axial calipers have no centering pin because they don't NEED them in a first place. The main benefits are a ligther construction and an easier faster mounting, useful for quick change. As far as master cylinders the radial setup reduce A BIT friction, hence better feeling and "power" but for most of us a little lubricant in the lever mechanism is already a huge improvement. For extreme improvement, small needle bearings and accurate diameter tempered steel shafts are a must. For any road bike a drop of oil is already doing wonders....

As always thank you for the great vid and keep up the good work.

As a mechanic i never heard of that term. We call this float or fixed caliper. The fixed caliper is used in racing because you can transform the heat better from the brakes. That way you have less brake fading...etc This apples for cars and bikes. Making the float caliper bigger will help with that but you add quickly diminishing returns.

My previous bike, an FZ6 had both axial master and callipers, and they were plenty for very hard braking on the track, just make sure you hover the foot over the rear brake so the ABS wouldn't go crazy and take away front brake. Then I went to an R6 with radial both and the instant braking was awesome! The biggest difference was confidence because of feel and finesse, not stopping power

Dude, i'm from Brazil, and never EVER heard about these two types of brakes calipers before. My actual bike is a CB500 from 2000's, Brembo axial brake calipers and no ABS , as you mentioned, i've seen no diference beetween those, cause i'm a regular biker. Congrats for your amazing content, ride safe!

Once again this channel is so underrated! Superb editing superb content

The mounting system is really a red herring.. its really fixed vs. floating calipers that makes the difference and there's little difference in material quality if both made of steel or aluminum.. and master cylinders could be the same either way, so there's a tangle of misunderstandings on this topic.

Some other time I saw a different video about brakes but there was only talking and hand gesturing (not sure if it was Motojitsu?), anyway they didn't get the point across. Now I understand the differences real well! Thanks!

Great video as always, short and sweet. I've actually just upgraded my 2021 S1000R from an Axial MC to a Radial unit from the RR, Difference is night and day! Great mod

A great quick non biased video I wish more KZfaqrs would make content like this I learnt a lot quickly without over compalacting it

Radial Brembo’s on my Rally Pro. They give outstanding feel and will stop *on a dime! Great video! Thanks.

As always, Love your videos man !❤

You missed the main differences entirely, Your axial calipers have brake pistons on both sides of the disc that squeeze the pads onto the disc that is between them while your radial brake is actually a sliding caliper type that you will find on most cars and they have brake pistons on only one side of the disc. It pushes on the pad on one side and when that bottoms out the caliper is pulled across on its slide pins and applies pressure to the disc pad on the other side of the disc so one piston applies both disc pads. It sounds cumbersome but it happens very quickly and works well for everyday braking situations. Having piston on both sides of the disc is seen as a better system for heavy duty braking but it is more expensive to make so you only see it where necessary or where brake pad changes need to take as little time as possible as in racing. The situation with the master cylinder pistons means nothing in relation to their ability to apply the brakes if the leverage and freeplay is the same for both. In that case the force applied will be the same. You may well have a difference in feel but that is subjective and will be different for a variety of riders. Hydraulic pressure is equal in all directions so if your handle leverage is the same and the master cylinder piston dimensions are the same and the caliper pistons are the same spec then braking force will be the same no matter what brake handle system is used.

You are quickly becoming my favourite channel. It’s interesting and you and all the other experts might be right but from a basic physics view, both types are dealing with forces that are applied across the mounting bolts. Radially the forces are upwards against the top bolt in compression and the bottom mount in tension. Axial brakes have forces acting the same on both mounting bolts but at the other side of the bolt about 180 degrees , with a slight difference re the width apart. So to me it’s certainly not strength of the mount thats different, the big difference is the centrifugal forces, slowed by braking or free spinning are in line with the calliper mounts, negligible to no difference on the road but for Rossi and Marquez, perhaps it feels smoother. I can’t remember who, perhaps Honda , but they introduced floating callipers which self-centering for lateral and radial forces and a better force distribution.. I thought this was very clever.

I’m not that sure about calipers, but from physics point of view, there should be basically no difference between radial/axial master Cylinder, only difference would come from bending in the leaver, and that would be super insignificant.

i love your videos i may not understand have the stuff but there just intresting to see

Thank you, great video. Something i had only wondered about for the first time a few months ago.

Thanks ! I'm glad someone explained me the difference at last. 🙂

This couldn't be any clearer. Excellent work.

Good post thank you...but you are (mainly) wrong...the reason race bikes adopted radial calipers is that they could change the size of the rotors (discs) fast and with just a spacer in the calipers...easy to experiment during a race weekend.

Great video with really easy examples that make sense.

Nice and informative !

He, who brakes last, is longer fast.

Clearly explained, thank you

both levers apply force DIRECTLY to a master cylinder. details are only in angles, leverage ratios and quality, and all of it can be adjusted and different in both setups. it's just physics

Ibrake with my boots, do they cout as radial?😀

My bike have a axial braking set up. IMO it is not the set up which make the difference. It is the way I maintain the overall bike. Every year replace the oil,brake fluid,break pads is an expensive affair,but doing it in by early is not. (Depending purely on riding) I do it every year,15000 kms. Proper maintaining doesn't mean I have to wait until it's broken,every part might work much more but life is priceless,investing a few grands on motorcycle won't do any harm. That includes tires,brakes,oil,filter,fluid,chain,cables etc.

My bike has an expanding shoe, foot operated brake on the back wheel, and a hand-operated, contracting-band brake on the sprocket shaft. Oh, and hub-centre steering. :-)

Drum brakes is sitting in the corner like, "what am I chopped liver?"

As always very interesting information. The sponsor banner progress was suppied or is a self invention? 😄

Great information.

I have both a Z900 and Z900RS. RS brakes are radial, Z's are axial. Both 4 piston up front. To tell you the truth, when riding hard on the street the Z's axials seem to perform as well as the RS. When sitting in the garage though, grabbing the brake levers, the RS feels a lot more firm. Might upgrade to stainless lines on the Z for better feel and performance.

I'd say that a radial conversion kit for a 450 super moto for street use is a must, with that kind of power in the twistes here in Italy you better hope to have at least a radial caliper installed instead of the oem axial 2p caliper, don't underestimate brakes even in a sporty street use

Another great vid! Here I thought I would lose interest after you sold your Duke (I had a Duke when I started watching your vids) but your content just keeps getting better!

Well said. All things being equal, radial mount callipers are better, and radial master-cylinders are better. That presumes all things are equal. They rarely are. In principle, it's a very small detail difference, but in real life, it's usually a fairly large and noticeable difference. In principle, the only people who would notice it and be able to tell the difference, are top level racers. In practice, the quality and execution of the whole thing, is (commonly) advertised by the radial or axial orientation. If having 'good brakes' is important to you, you go radial. That means the quality of execution, of manufacture, of design and engineering, is usually significantly higher with radial setups. That, possibly more than the defining detail, is what makes the difference.

Well explained

A great advantage of the radial brake caliper is that it does not require maintenance like axial brake calipers. Which require lubrication on the movable fixing pins.

I have mannaged to get better brake feeling out of a fully axial setup that some to out of a radial. I drove a 2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 1100 with 2x Brembo P4 30/34's axially mounted, 4 piston callipers. Together with a higher qualaty Brembo PSC16 maser cylinder that thing has a more direct feetback than my brand new Guzzi V100 with Brembo M4 callipers and PR16 (or 18?) master cylinder. And im currently upgrading my SC59 Fireblade Trackbike from Tokico callipers / Nissin master, to Brembo Stylema callipers and PSC16 master.

Nice and simple. I work on bicycles and we have the same setups on mountain bikes.

Excellent explaination imho. That said, brakes like all other components continue to evolve. The hard fact is that if someone knows the limits of even drum brakes they are going to out perform the novice with even the latest techware.

always thought the words originated from one another... radial = radius of wheels, axial = axle of wheel. but even if it isn't its nice to remember :D

on bicycle can be axial/radial brakes, same caliper is mounted on both way and it is good because shims can be mounted on both to get right position of caliper

Even with Ad, the video is short enough to explain Axial vs Radial in a crystal clear way. Just an idea, can you please make a video that explain whether or not dual disc brakes have better stopping power ?

Its interesting that the current generation of the MT 09, whether it is stock or SP, have Radial brakes and Radial Master cylinders.

Same as you, radial on the street triple r and axial on the Crf sumo.

any comparison can only be made in brake systems that have similar specifications. in truth the only advantage, although significant, is that radial brakes with the dowel pin locators mount with far greater accuracy in relation to the disc position allowing less energy to be lost during actuation of the brake

You can see that on the RS125 two stroke, newer versions have the radial brakes, but the main difference is the new Brembo system with bigger calipers rather than the radial system.

Fantastic video 👏👏👏 Im on an order bike, so axial for me...

I thought that radially mounted callipers were originally used to enable easier swapping of brakes at the circuit as you only have to add spacers to the calliper mount for different disc sizes.

Ducati streetfighter 848, all radial en iron covered brake hoses, its good, and looks nice!!

What do you want brakes for? They only slow you down!!

Really but the math says it's not how the caliper is mounted but where the rotor is mounted. I always thought rotors closer to the axle make the caliper work harder to stop. While rotors away from the axle mean the caliper don't have to work as hard. I have axial on my Buell and is superior to radial. Not because of caliper or how it's mounted but because of where the rotor is mounted.

never used radial but my modified 1998 600 facer has 2000 RSV mile r frontend with a set of billet 6 callepers based on the tokodo desine and a 2003 R1 master cilinder this set up is way better than stock blue dots it came with

Radial brake calipers were designed to allow the quick change in diameter of discs on racing bikes. The caliper then can be moved radially, very easily, with the use of correct spacers for the discs. There's nothing inherently wrong with a good axial caliper. That radials are found everywhere now on road bikes is just fashion & marketing descended from racing bikes.

As usual with safety-related parts on a vehicle, the best parts are often cheapest when including the cost of an accident and the chance of avoiding it through better gear. Saving money on tires means buying the absolute best for riding on the street, because that's where the dangers are. With brakes, it's similar, but the price increase is often too much for some to bear. Buy the best brakes, best tires and never skip the abs. If in doubt, remember how many drivers are texting and driving.

I have a sport bike from the 1990s, and a budget underbon that has an old brake design from over 20 years ago (both have axial front brakes)

Great video, thanks for this, as well as for all the comments beneath. What I don't fully understand yet is absence of any floating element in radial geometry. Is it necessary or not? Years ago I had a bike with floating disc, then I had a bike with floating caliper, but currently on both Hondas it does not seem any of these have any floating element. How do these deal with pads wear of thermal expansion? Thanks

Good content 👍 👍 I am from India, I have a 220cc motorbike (Bajaj Pulsar 220F) with axial type braking installed, but I have modified my master cylinder into a brembo rcs radial master cylinder but the caliper still has the default ones.. and also i am using sintered brake pads in my case to improve the braking ability.. 😊

The big differences between radial and axial caliper designs are 1) the additional stiffness achieved with a monoblock body, and 2) accurate location via dowels in the fork leg. (Note how the radial caliper in the clip almost 'clicks' into place on it's dowels). The dowels take the shear loads very well. A dowelled monoblock body reduces the deflections that exist in other designs; less deflection means more load applied for a given pressure/load at the master cyl. It also probably improves the feel, being less 'spongy'. The solid / one piece nature of a monoblock caliper is better at reacting the piston forces which are, in simple terms, trying to open the U shaped cross section of the caliper. If an axial monoblock caliper was made as accurately and more specifically, accurately dowelled to the fork leg lugs, given the same piston area, it is likely it'd be almost as effective. Split axial calipers however, need to have their two halves very well connected/clamped together, with large mating surfaces (a thick, wide bottom of the U) to reduce bending loads in the clamping bolts and thus deflection, but the disc gets in the way of doing that evenly and within the small space envelope. One solution, or improvement at least, for split axial calipers would be to have relatively thin walled dowels (with the largest feasible dia.) running across the two halves and that were a very smooth or almost interference fit...

Hey thanks for that great info, been riding for 45 years and just found that out...got more?

I have axial calipers but without problems with play and flexiness (R1150R) - just 4 pistons.

I worked in hydraulics for 30 years and the answer to what is better is easy to answer... For the average person it doesn't matter what system is used. The difference between the two are very small and can easily be compensated by technology and clever engineering. Yes... there are differences between the two systems but these are more theoretical and- / or only in extreme contexts like on a race track for example. Again , for the everyday person in normal road conditions it doesn't matter 👍😀.

I'd wager your average Joe or Jill Kickstand couldn't tell the difference using 'em if they couldn't see which type they had and nobody told 'em, but thanks for explaining something I'd wondered about for awhile but was too lazy to really investigate.

I have recently upgraded the 'floating' 2 piston axial calipers on my V-Strom 650 to axial 'ridgid' mounted 4 piston calipers. My experience is that these brake much better and have a more liniar feel then the standerd ones. Maybe this is because Nissin is better quality then Tokico? Maybe it's because the are solidly mounted instead of floating? I honestly don't know but it was definitely worth the money if you ask me.

Very good explanation. Thank you sir.

I ride a Chinese 450 sumo (KTM replica) that came with an "Axial" caliper. just did the oversize 320mm rotor upgrade with Galfer pads, stock was 260mm with I don't even know what type of pads it came with. I agree that the "Radial" caliper are better. But, that upgrade is freaken incredible. If I pull as hard like I did with the 260mm rotor, I will endo over the bars... I also now how good "Radial" calipers are as I owned from a 350cc to a R1. So I really don't think I need anymore breaking power.

Ridden both and I am no rookie, ridden for decades many bikes of all type and sizes and on street it is all a sales pitch. fact is growing up on bikes when discs first appereared on street then dirt bikes a modern street bike has better brakes than 99% of riders will ever need or use. the top 1 % of racers can feel difference. Like I learned playing golf, i am a 10 -12 handicap and cheap cavity back clubs are easier for me to keep good scores, a pro club like Tiger and those guys are BETTER but only if you have the skill to use them like they do, I played with those once with a golf pro at local club my hits were terrible as you must be perfect to even hit a decent shot but in the hands of a real golfer they can shape shots and distances with one club I cannot do with any club. Like driving a race car it is a fine tuned weapon and if you are not pro you will be slower on a a track than in a street car. it sounds good but fact is on street bikes with street rider both are more than enough.

I have brembo axial brake caliper with axial brembo master cylinder on my Ducati 1000S, still works much better than a brand new mt09 with axial brakes

I just checked the bikes I've ridden and mostly, newer bigger bikes around 900cc have radial, and 600s below has axial. Older models like the T120 and the R9T has Axial even with huge engines. My Trident 660 has Axial since it's light weight, while my MT09 has Radial.

My gen 1 r125 is axially mounted caliper (layer ones are radially mounted however looks like it has a radial style master cylinder, (brembo made so who knows) 😂

Make a video about KN filters vs Normal filters

Radial master cylinder feels so good when braking, I feel like I am in complete control of the braking force. It completely eliminated the spongy feel of the stock master cylinder and there is no going back . Is it necessary for the street ride? Absolutely not, but it’s a nice thing to have if you could afford one.

I prefer top notch pads in axial calipers than crap pads in radial calipers. EBC HH for my Versys and my SV1000S

Excellent info,

I prefer Fred Flintstone brakes.

Radial callipers are better on tarmac, where you have more traction and using slicker tyres breaking force is bigger. On motocross track you don't need such a strong breading force especially on front because your break caliper will simple block front wheel and cause crash.

Axial calipers can slide thus need pistons on one side only. The other sides barke pads ride on the calipers body itself. On radial mounts, you need to either have pistons on both sides (making the hydraulics path complex and calipers costly to make and maintain, or make the rotor disk floating on bobbins (costly rotors).

So, basically, IS mount vs. post mount? 😁

4:50 Exactly!

Soooo if you have a radial mounts you have no fading brakes? I am still used to the the old school....

Tacing applications maybe the radial is worth it. Normal street riding any setup is more than enough

Radial towards the Radiator, if there's one :P

As far as the calipers go the only definitive difference is ease of replacement when a caliper starts to play up during racing. Radials are very quick to remove / replace. That’s a lot less relevant on every day bikes. The more directly operated radial brake master cylinder argument is stronger although a more high tech bearing on a conventional system would already be a big improvement. The rest is more a matter of fashion and myth building versus affordability. As so often.

Next question is: Which is the floating part in the brake system? The caliper or the brake disc?

Drums and best 😅

First you said your MT-09 has radial calipers. Next you said the master cylinder piston in an axial setup like your MT-09. So does your MT-09 have radial calipers but axial master cylinder?

I have both systems on my street bikes, radial is absolutely the best one.

Good disertation.