I have used plant medicine/psychedelics on several occasions, including MDMA to treat life long ‘untreatable’ depression. What I was shown and had to process was truly horrifying, so I understand how the experience can be destabilising. But I have to also point out, that 3 years on, I don’t know myself. Actually, for the first time in my life, I do know myself. I have come home and it feels like a miracle to me. Before I took any medicines, there was a 3 month lead in time of inner child work, meditation, intention setting work with a guide on a weekly basis and on a daily basis by myself. The ceremonies were not in an insane group setting where you absorb the energy of others going through their own stuff, but in a peaceful, quiet almost reverent setting with just me and the guide. Afterwards, it has been 3 messy years of intense weekly work with a somatic practitioner who is beautifully skilled and well versed in other modalities for working with trauma eg IFS. I also used neurofeedback, yoga, meditation, tai chi, nootropics, etc to augment my healing. The now-cliched “it was like 10 years of therapy in 1 night” is bullshit. The medicine is the catalyst and it loosens the soil. YOU are the medicine. I’m not surprised people are having rough experiences that are overwhelming and destabilising. I’m not sure how people who are under prepared hold their minds together. Psychedelics are fearsome in their potential. Treated correctly, it can be life changing. Also, not everyone should use psychedelics. And I would certainly be wary of using them in a circle of strangers, some of whom almost certainly have unprocessed trauma.

We live in a society who values extreme stuff. As if gentle was not good enough.

I have participated in ayahuasca experience 3 times. Twice in Peruvian jungle and once in jungle in Ecuador. Always with genuine indiginous shaman. I have no psychological problems. Didnt do it for that kind of healing. Three wonderful profound spiritual experiences. The first time heard everything singing and now I know everything sings beautiful sounds all the time but not in state of mind to hear it. 2nd time floating in embryonic fluid of universal love. 3rd time healing of relationship with my deceased parents who came into my being. I am a long time meditator. I have done a lot of spiritual work. I dropped acid back in the 70s. Possibly more prepared than a lot of people and really understood it is a very sacred ceremony. I carry what I experienced with me and would do it again. Research. Go with someone you trust and make sure you are physically and spiritually and mentally prepared. Peace

Sometimes we are looking for healing in all the wrong places..thank you for sharing.

Sometimes I have thought about doing ayahuasca, but I'm so sensitive. This solidifies that it's not for me.

My first ceremony with Ayuhasca was the best experience ever even thou it was profoundly painful as it revealed a lot of the memories and emotions I’ve buried. For 6 intense hours I was taken constantly from a traumatic event to another. Once the traumatic event was elaborated, re-written and integrated, I was taken to another one. I can understand how this experience can be very triggering for someone that is not prepared to face their deepest traumas and don’t have the emotional capacity to integrate and elaborate what is happening during the ceremony. For me, Ayuhasca helped me solve in 1 night with a single dose, traumas that neither 10 years of psychotherapy would’ve been able to help me with.

I am another person who developed serious nervous system issues post Ayahuasca. It took me over two years to recover. I could not sleep for more than 4 hours for almost a whole year. This man almost had an identical navigation that I took. I spent close to $10,000 trying to figure out how to heal, going all over the place seeking out people to help me. My doctor said I should write a book also. So I'm about 4 years out now. I was able to go back to work fortunately. But I still suffer from sensory overload and memory loss. I'm considering getting a $3,000 assessment with neuropsychology because this issue. I don't advise anyone to take Ayahuasca if you are a highly sensitive individual, possibly have ADHD or on the neurodivergent spectrum. The rewiring of the system significant chaos. I'm thankful to be able to work again because at one point I thought I was going to be homeless. I'm a medical professional as well. It's been a really tumultuous past 4 years years. I'm glad to hear that this man healed.

What you experienced is called a spiritual emergency. I had this 8 years ago when my natural DMT releases from my 3rd eye and I thought I was loosing my mind and having night terrors and flash backs etc. yes I had severe trauma background. Please note that this happened naturally so without plant meds. The soul can decide it’s time to spiritually wake up. It took me 2 years to integrate but it was so worth it

This can happen to you even without ayahuasca, it’s an awakening and can happen from loss, stress, breakups anything can trigger it and your entire life can fall apart because this is process of healing from the person you thought you were into your true self.

Thank you for sharing. This was an amazing video. Plant medicine is big business now, and there are more unhealed healers holding ceremony, making tons of money and leaving people unresolved, thinking they had a healing, creating more trauma. It's like a rite of passage to go through all that physical/psychic/emotional/mental intensity...peak experience....Plus there are so many healing centers that seem like cults....you really have to be SO discerning with where you are going to heal.

I think going to India, Bali or some exotic place to heal is an expansion of the idea that we are not enough and the answer is somewhere outside. We dont need to travel, we need to come home to ourselves.

I was stuck in the endless loop of suffering too. There are no words to express how terrifying it is. I thought ‘the jokes on me. I drank the koolaid… I will be here suffering forever.’ I still have flashbacks of that moment and have intense fear about the nature of reality. I do think there is a deeper message to learn from that experience. To me… I just took away from it much of what the Buddha taught… life is suffering… we have to surrender. Thank you for sharing your story. I’m grateful you came out the other side 🙏💖

Great video!! Substances like psychedelics when administered temporarily and in the minimum and safe dose can save life (prevent suicide), yet..long term all of them are NOT the answer (solution to the problem). self honesty, emotional and spiritual healing (done correctly) produce safe and lasting results..health happiness, inner peace

Being literally surrounded by psychedelics and mental health specialists, I am coming to the conclusion that a great portion of the people doing psychedelic treatment are looking for a shortcut to spiritual groundedness or healing.

I had a really horrible Ayahuasca experience as well that left me really messed up, and the organizers say it's "just the healing taking place." I was in a constant triggered mode where I couldn't sleep, and I was so ungrounded I started to lose touch with reality and go psychotic and lose my mind. This was over 3 years ago and I'm doing so much better now, in fact the best I ever have before. I can't say I regret doing it because it really got me talking about my painful past and my beliefs but I compare my experience through this like botched surgery that I ended up recovering from. I feel bad for the people who don't have a support network or cooler heads in their life to help them with what happens after an experience like this because it was the hardest thing I've ever been through and I'm grateful I'm here today thriving. Use extreme caution before going to one of these retreats, please. Do not get swept away by their magical healing talk and how it's all "meant to be" and all sorts of asinine new age junk that's thrown in and easily confuses a person who isn't thinking straight from all the painful beliefs and memories they have and physical/emotional state they are in. There is a tremendous amount of risk when it comes to this stuff and they throw all caution into the wind cause "they can just feel and sense who is ready to drink the medicine." It's much safer to do a lot of research and do this in a modern therapeutic environment with people who have training and oversight, there is definitely need for some oversight and a more comprehensive and developed screening process and support system after taking stuff like this. Not some retreat in the middle of the jungle where they just send you on your way after.

Very similar path brother. Thank you both for having the bravery to speak on such a topic and provide harm reduction wisdom to those concidering this means of healing. Blessings continue to follow you where ever you go!

I can deeply relate to Juan Pablo’s story, and I’m so grateful he shared. Every part of his story, from his childhood existentialism, to losing his senses and feeling as though he was dying, to his journey to healing resonates. That’s also how I found Irene. These stories aren’t talked about often, but they aren’t uncommon. Your bravery will help others ❤️

The same thing happened to me. Overly intense experience went for 12 hours straight. Negligent and untrained people in charge. Matter of fact, The shaman left midway through. Left me scared for 2 years and to pick up the pieces. People don't understand this is not a toy or a weekend fix. Auyahuasca is like opening up pandoras box what you see, find out and realize are yours for life but what you sacrifice far out weighs its beauty.

Thank you so much for talking about this and shining light on it.

Thank you for this raw real truthful open interview. Irene, Juan Pablo gave such a genuine account. And I love how aware he was before and now even more of himself. I was thrilled to hear that Byron Katie's work is still alive. That he knew he wasn't ready to confront the dark and how smart his advice or just relaying his experience that if it's not time to deal with that darkness you probably shouldn't. This was such a refreshing interview. ♡

I have always said I feel like I was born depressed and it’s been a battle throughout my entire life.

One of my favorite videos in it's own right. Thank you, Juan Pable & Irene 🕉

As Juan Pablo said "This is F#$@ing it". That's exactly how I feel. Starting this work is the best thing I could have done. Also after trying many other modalities. Thanks, and all the best to you sir. And thanks as always Irene xx

I wish I could share this conversation with everyone I know and their friends! I am a Somatic Experiencing practitioner and in the past year I am getting more and more requests from people who have had bad ayahuasca experiences. It has become so popular as people are seeking new avenues to explore their truths, which in itself is beautiful. But with more and more inexperienced spaceholders with hardly any awareness of the risks and dangers, this is a recipe for disaster for many. Thanks Irene and Juan Pablo for sketching this picture in so much detail, as well as the hopeful message for anyone who has gone through a similar experience!

I did Ayahuasca 15 years into my personal development and spiritual journey And I had a very good experience! I think the preparation is very important and also many other factors such as the space, the shaman and the community

Now I know the reasons why I have never intuitively been attracted to undertaking plant medicine ceremonies. Thank you for sharing this very detailed video.❤

Oh this was good and I love how slow the message develops 🧡 blessings to him in his journey .

This is a really eye opening interview. Thank you for sharing your story and experience with ayahuasca. It just goes to show how important it is to not rush healing or take on cultural practices that we have not studied well enough to grasp. You're so right, healing is not linear and we are all on our own journey❤️ I will definitely cross ayahuasca off my bucket list and go for somatic breathwork instead!

My acupuncturist started “encouraging” me (it felt like pressuring) to lean deeper into some very traumatic family stuff and write a letter to my mother - at a time when I was teaching myself some “brain rewiring” practices that essentially involved doing quite the opposite, bringing myself back to the present and letting go of rumination on the past. She said that I was ignoring trauma and needed to face it in order to work through it, otherwise it would always stay stuck in my body. I instinctively knew this was deeply harmful for me, but I didn’t stop seeing her for several months because I was so emotionally vulnerable. I didn’t have the self confidence to do what was right for me. I can see now that this had a negative impact on my healing for a while. Listen to your instincts.

your point about cultural illness being unnatural got me thinking about a grove trees I used to walk through on the river. initially when I would go through there I would suddenly get a sense of panic, the urge to escape immediately. even in broad daylight. after a few months of this I finally stopped to ask the trees what's going on. they responded by saying "you're ok, we are just trying to keep the assholes out. fear is a universal repellant." they eased up on me from then on. I reckon my acknowledgement of their presence allowed for some kind of pardon. I can't even imagine using a powerful plant medicine without being attuned to earth mama first. sounds like a roll of the dice.

Very genuine and articulate young man. Thanks for sharing x

Wow, when you, Irene, mentioned how strong his soul was…. Tears. I resonate so much with Juan’s experience, and in the 4 months since the ceremonies I have been beating myself up because I didn’t take 3 cups or for being weak. I really really needed to hear your words and to witness Juan’s beautifully emotional response to your reflection.

I have participated with plant medicine. I have had lots of trauma as a child and young adult . When I participated I followed all the guidelines to the T. I did not play with the medicine in any way. I had the upmost respect for the medicine. I would never approach something so powerful without that complete respect. Why would anyone do this medicine and not adhere to the guidelines and expect to have good results? Also the medicine called me while I was in a deep meditation literally. I believe you have to be called to do it. From this account I hear he was not called to do it. He did it because a friend paid for it. This medicine is powerful. All the components have to be in place with the upmost respect. I have never heard of anyone committing suicide after a journey. I knew death was a possibility. I was offered more medicine and I knew myself well enough to say no to the second dose. I came into it with complete respect. It has changed me for the better. This young man approached this medicine with some degree of disrespect by not adhering to the protocol prior to using the medicine. You cannot play with this medicine for kicks and thrills, for sure. Even the deaths related to it have been brought on by not adhering to to the pre experience guidlines.

Such a good video! I can totally relate with the danger of substances and of spiritual journey/meditation. Thank you for share it guys ❤️

This interview is FULL. I can't thank you enough.

Brilliant interview. Very eye opening. Good to know the 'other side' of ayahuasca 🙏🏻

Thank you for this brave post, sharing a difficult experience. Just a reminder to everyone that we've never heard of anyone having lasting damage from music healing practices.

Ayahuasca opens up your trauma. That is why it feels traumatic. That is what it does. It will be your responsibility how you work through that trauma. Sounds as if he was able to do that. This is a great conversation for him to share what helped him process that trauma. 1000% there needs to be more conversations and after retreat care for people to know how to process this trauma. I think there are a whole lot of people including myself that have had to deal with everything by ourselves that it doesn’t even cross our minds that other people might need help processing the trauma that comes up.

Thank you. For sharing this. It probably took him immense courage to be able to talk about it and having to remember and re-live everything in thought… I feel very grateful for your sharing, that’s precious to hear. I have always had a feeling… That’s exactly why I never did plant medicine, even not smoking the slightest thing… I have been through strong panic attacks for years, without having taken anything. Life was already scary enough. And I survived it. I finally built a stronger nervous system, after years and years of nervous system break down… I can’t imagine what this man has gone through while taking the plant and after… it’s not for everybody, and often people don’t talk about the dark side of plant medicine. Some people even go there without knowing what they are doing, and the risk they are taking.

It triggers a dark night of the soul . Most important thing to do is to ground yourself

I found this discussion so resonant. I had a similar experience 30 Years ago when something was put in my drink. I got stuck in what felt like a never ending loop where I lost sight of what was real and what wasn’t. When this experience was over (I ended up in hospital after about 8 hours of looping and running away from my own self -thank god I had a friend there) I was a different person. I became full of fear and everything felt Like a threat. It affected me for 20 years until I discovered hypnotherapy and yoga. I also realised I had all the symptoms of PTSD. Once I realised what had happened to me and began releasing the control it had over me by practicing yoga, polyvagal theory exercises I am now able to self regulate my nervous system. Like you, I now devote my life to helping others heal from trauma through somatic exercises and yoga. Thank you for sharing as I have tried to piece together what happened To me that night. It was terrifying

thanks for another insightful discussion.

Man, this interview triggers stuff in my system. I had a traumatic event like that with marihuana. Extreme fear and then dissociation, that left me with years of panic and chronic fear.Back then I didn’t know I was so disregulated that my system couldn’t take such stimulation. I was angry with myself that I listened to a friend who recommended me to smoke that joint so that I can relax a bit. My dad passed couple of months prior to this and I was in a bad shape already then this harmless friendly meeting turned into a nightmare. Thankfully now I know more and I am healing with Irene’s program day by day. It has to be slow and steady so that my system can feel safe in this world again.

Bravo, you two! So good!

Thank you both ❤️

I just finished a therapy session talking about my ayahuasca experience gone wrong, and I swear, 2 minutes later I saw your newsletter in my mailbox with this video..... Mind blown!!! Can't wait to watch this

We can't stare at the Sun more than a few seconds without damaging our eyes. I think that's a good analogy about how our environment is not always hospitable. The sun sustains our lives, but we can't take it all in with abandon. We have learned that for example our skin can withstand direct sunlight much longer than our eyes. And people with darker skins can tolerate much more sun than people with fairer complexion. Things like that are common sense in our society. We know that everything that comes from the Earth or the Sun is not automatically good for us. Still, in certain circles it's quite common to take shortcuts and make incoherent assumptions that disregard common sense and can lead to unfortunate outcomes. Thank your for this very enlightening interview!

I wouldn't personally mess with this.... Do old school therapy.... No psychedelic drugs.

Thank you for this conversation, Irene and Juan Pablo! In 2016, my chronic illness was at its worst. I wasn't able to sleep, my nerves were buzzing and my heart would jerk me awake anytime I was about to fall asleep. I got stuck on the idea that an Ayahuasca ceremony would heal me; curing my mental and physical agony. Until this day, I still don't know how I did it, but I booked an Aya retreat in Costa Rica. I made the first leg of my journey to Florida. Then, I completely collapsed. I could not make it to Costa Rica. Today, I'm so clear that I would have died in ceremony. My liver would not have been able to process the medicine and my NS definitely wouldn't have been able to handle the experience. And... my adrenals were in no shape to handle physical purging. I'm so grateful I was lead to Function Nutrition, the work of Anthony William and your SE work, Irene! These tools have me feeling more grounded and connected than ever! Yet, at this time, I know I am still not ready for a "big" plant medicine experience- and that's ok! I am enjoying mystical experiences that are within my capacity.

Thank you so much for this interview, Irene and Juan Pablo 🙏 there are so many parallels between this story and my own. It currently feels like there is space expanding and a softening within my ribcage. Simply hearing that there is an ‘other side’ of experiences like this, that there are others who have come through and out of that terrifying experience helps me remain hopeful. It has been a year and seven months since I had a hallucinogenic experience in which it felt like my chronic freeze was lifting from my body, to name one of the less terrifying things that i experienced during those 15 hours. This time last year, I was considering suicide. Very few people seem to mention that the hallucinations don’t stop after the initial ‘trip’. I used to think that because I had acted on that ideation in the past rather ineffectively, the fear of failing again is what kept me from following through. Knowing what I known now, I realize I wasn’t giving enough credit to my body’s natural proclivity towards survival. Though, I really did feel that the after affects would never cease and could not imagine any other alternative at the time. I found SBSM through obsessive searching into what was happening and trying to find healing of any sort. I’m currently in my second round of the program, and it has been *the* key in my finding regulation again. I still feel survival stress surface from time to time, especially surrounding autonomic functions like swallowing. Now, when it arises, I am able to orient and sense my way to more relief and increased capacity as I continue practicing. I have recently been able to recognize the feeling of sensory overload before it creates a state of sympathetic activation in my body that feels like life or death. I have also begun to accept my aggression more (something I was very ashamed of as long as I can remember) now that I am aware of safe and ethical ways to express it through my body. And most of all, i have found myself slowly becoming curious again, as opposed to hyper vigilantly assessing and categorizing all stimulus and information. I have even started to find myself becoming curious about connecting with other humans again- a realization that came as a bit of a surprise to me. Connecting with my felt sense more has started to open up this integrated sense of be-ing in me that a lifetime of obsessive analyzation and spiritual bypassing could not. I am so grateful for the work you do, Irene (and Seth), and for how accessible you make this information. I truly believe that this knowledge needs to be more widespread- it bridges so many gaps present in current therapeutic approaches. For lack of words to describe how I’m feeling, I hope this emphatic thank you can convey it. Thank you!! 🙏

Yes completely agree thanks for sharing this x

This episode stirred so much strong emotion and feeling in me when I first watched it and it was a wonderful gift that it did because I was given an opportunity to discover what was in my nervous system, that this interview had triggered.. The same could be said for JUan Paolo and his experience with ayahuasca, that rather than destroy his nervous system, ayahuasca triggered and brought to conscious awareness what was already there. I have heard Irene talk about this in a previous video pointing out that "it will open the floodgates to the unconscious" and should be approached with caution. Ironically, I was on a 7 day ayahuasca retreat when the interview was being recorded and experienced many of the same things as Juan Paola, the difference is that I went in without an agenda ie hoping it would save a relationship, I took a lot of time in choosing the team that would facilitate my retreat, had already done a lot of work in regulating my nervous system and followed the guidance of the shamans for both preparation and integration of the retreat. Ayahuasca is not and should not be seen as a magic treatment to cure all in one dose, which it sounds like what Juan Paolo expected it to be. Yes, there are many calling themselves shamans that are nothing of the kind, which is why research and careful consideration of intention as well as expectation is so important. Ayahuasca is a very powerful medicine, to be treated with respect and approached in the correct manner. THat the interview was presented in the way it was I found both shocking and disappointing because I have heard Irene speak of the risks before, so she is not unaware. If approached and used in the correct maner, ayahuasca and indeed other psychedelics, can be a very powerful tool for healing and that more care was not taken with clarifying this in the interview I find very sad. Humanity needs all the help it can get with healing, whatever modality anyone chooses to make use of and interviews like this, serve only to cause more confusion, mis-information, distress, anxiety and division. A very biased, one sided interview, made all the more shocking that it was made and promoted by Irene, it would seem for commercial gain,.

These are the kind of videos that SHOULD be recommended and promoted not the pro- drugs ones.

Such great grounding rare information. A big takeaway is that there is no guru who knows your body & mind better than you. The instinct to "obey" as you said, can be so damaging. We are each the authority on our own lives, the hard part is actually listening & following through on what is heard, instead of giving up our responsibility to someone else (which seems so much easier). Thank you for sharing your story Juan!🙏 I almost didn't watch this video because the title sounded click-baity, but it was like nourishment to my mind to hear someone else speak of things I've experienced also.

This was so helpful to me. ❤️ Thank you both

Amazingly, I had come across this channel a mere month before my ayahuasca ceremony. I believe I stumbled right down the path that was the most helpful to me by taking Irene's course on SE just before taking the plant medicine. I had not taken the bait of "spiritual bypassing" and knew I had things within me that needed letting go, so I went into ceremony believing thoroughly that I was going to purge the trapped trauma by allowing my body to do whatever it needed without my Default Mode Network getting in the way, and that is exactly what happened. Had I not known what my body was experiencing throughout the ceremony (convulsions, panic attacks, random uncontrolled movements, fits of rage, terror at feeling that I was a consciousness stripped of my body, etc), I would have been far less prepared to handle it the way that I did, which was to lean into it. I was still absolutely miserable during and exhausted afterwards. Even the days that followed I still experienced panic attacks, but was able to soothe myself with reason and theory from Irene's course and have come back better than before. I'm not truly convinced that I could have gotten over myself on my own, but would agree that ayahuasca is a very cathartic and traumatic way to go and think that I can do the work myself now with the jumpstart that was that ceremony. I definitely believe that a course in SE would be very helpful to MANY people before taking ayahuasca, if they still felt it was something they needed, and I am looking into deepening my education on this topic to one day help others in this combination of modalities. Thank you, Juan and Irene, for this wonderful intersectional talk.

I sat for 3 nights back at the end of September / early October. Most of my 33 years I have been in addiction and dissociation. Hiding from life. Scared of life. The first night with ayahuasca was the most harrowing and excruciating experience I could have imagined. The third night I saw a vision of my inner child shriveled up and traumatized in the corner, terrified of life, telling me "I dont know how to exist in this world." This was in Hawaii. I ended up moving back to live with my parents in Chicago, as I felt so ungrounded and unsafe. The last three months I've mostly been navigating suicidal ideation and despair and depression. Feeling incapable and like my nervous system is completely broken. Like I can't stay in my body for more than a few minutes at a time. All of this feels like it was already present and ayahuasca showed me the truth. I haven't been able to work or do much of anything other than go for walks and talk on the phone with friends, as well as seeing a therapist. I'm scared and lonely and holding on to hope that over time and with gentleness and devotion I can heal my system. Thank you for sharing this information.

This experience, within the ceremony, sounds normal to me because from my experience Ayahuasca is not a gentle teacher. I was honestly expecting something else not what he described. Although I wasnt aware of after effects, hallucinations, etc. Ayahuasca can be very scary, very lonely. Also beautiful. And when you're in it you have to face and deal with the darkness if thats what comes, theres literally nothing you can do but surrender and thats whats scary, which in itself is a lesson is that we are not in control, control is merely an illusion.

Irene Lyon and Juan Pablo, thank you so much for this interview! You're doing a great service to people. I never tried Ayahuasca and I won't. I already had my share of prescribed and unprescribed drugs and lucky me I had to go through short-time inconveniences from both before I understood that my body (and psyche) don't need any and generally speaking NO psycho-active ingredients. Some people are just like that. I cut off the little amount of alcohol I used to drink and gave up on coffee. Best decisions ever. I came to know more about Ayahuasca because I randomly listened to hinos and dances and I immediately clicked with the music. The most fascinating side for me is the DMT part as a chemical we naturally have in our brains (like so many others) that is being released in big doses before death and in NDE. There are a lot of documentaries about this plant, mostly of two types: 1) Churches of Santo Daime with lot of people singing and dancing, standing on their feet after drinking the cup (as if they're taking the blood of Christ, but where's the body). From an outer perspective they look simply happy, smiling, calm, gently shaking their bodies in an organised dance with no off-beat physical movements, open eyes, some have a deeply meditating expression with close eyes and nobody can say if they're fine or not but they still are standing up, older people quietly sitting in their chair, moms with small children who get their small dose of the drug... At the end of the night in the forest, every one is still so calm, clean, their white clothes still look pristine, the ones who get interviewed simply look a bit over the lines in a pleasant way, people quietly go back to their lives. More or less the same with videos of these churches in other countries, like Japan. 2) Tales from the "I wanted it to be dramatic and it was": people from western civilization looking for a strong experience or for healing where other things failed, paying big money to go to a well-kept resort with fancy self-proclaimed shamans, mats and buckets and toilet paper, everyone doing their own thing, screams, crying, puking and shitting, feeling devasted afterwards but going through more, shamans being quite unaware of what's going on, 4 days of devastation. Then some are ecstatic about the experience and others (more than you think) are scared or just nervously broke for long time. So either people are different with different psychic backgrounds, different intention from both shamans/facilitators and people or the drug is done differently or the environment is different or whatever OR there is a lot of untold and conveniently cut off from camera and people's experience. Who's cheating here?

Thank you for this honest feedback and saving me from a horrible experience. I have a very sensitive nervous system. I know I will have your same symptoms to Ayahausca medicine, probably worse. It’s not for everyone. There are so many more ways to heal than taking mystery drugs that we know very little about.

This is such an important message, thank you both for sharing! I know someone who took her life after a "ceremony". It is critical to address what needs deep healing before diving into plant medicines, and there are many unscrupulous practitioners offering ceremony without any knowledge of safety or providing a safe container...say nothing of preparation and follow-up processing. with participants.

Just a few minutes in and I can already relate to so much of what Juan is saying about spiritual experiences. My nervous system was left messed up after an energy healing (Kundalini Activation Process, KAP) session and i've spent the past 2 years piecing my life back together. Irene's work has helped me immensely!

fantastic, fantastic talk!! so much i resonated with here. thank you so much Irene and Juan Pablo for this! i feel SOOO much grounding after watching this in trusting my body.

Thank you 🙏🏽 this has been insightful and the deterrent that I needed.

I didn’t try this but It almost sounds to me like people that are already sensitive souls and can get deep into themselves that these stuff can just takes things too far for a human to handle. I did some heavy deep breathwork and fainted , I kept blacking out throughout the day, got super weak and couldn’t get back to myself for weeks, I was told it would heal me and it’s only beneficial it can’t harm but I learned that there’s no shortcuts and natural and slow works best. So I will stick to my old methods that work like regular excerises for nervous system and natural breathing , nothing to crazy. Stuff that feels like my body can handle , meditation and prayer :)

Thanks Irene, this is such an interesting topic. In hindsight we'd ideally build a strong foundation of mind-body awareness before experimenting with altered states, but it doesn't always happen that way - I can relate. Dimethyltryptamine (DMT, the psychotropic molecule in the Ayahuasca brew) is so strange and special... but much of society has yet to make a space for it in our worldview... as it can be such a bizarre and surprising experience in small doses, it's no wonder entire Ayahuasca sessions can be stressful/ traumatic. Thanks for sharing this talk. Blessings!

I've had about 40 ceremonies in my life. One of them I felt like I was dying like this gentleman was expressing. To a point where I was afraid and I was in a very bad place and I accepted it to a point where I wanted to give back. So I sort of blessing everybody in the room and really just reaching for any humanity. I had any care for others. However, I didn't recover from this for a while and I was leaving the retreat and I remember walking back and I saw this flash of light and I was able to release everything. I just got it. I can't explain at all. It's just that the flash of light was letting me know that my current beliefs are holding me where I'm at and I could be okay with where I am right now. Just knowing that just getting that permission brought me to tears. So I could feel for this gentleman and and it's hard to imagine 6 months of psychosis. However, a majority of the ceremonies have been pretty scary but always a chance to be born again. And all my experiences. I've never recommended Ayahuasca to anybody. Because I felt called to do it. I don't think it's a joke and I don't think it's something people should do to just try.

thank you both

This reminds me of an EDMR therapist who suggested and pressured me in the session to do a bresthwork excercise that was prana. It literally traumatized me that it wiped out my stomach acid leading to me almost being hospitalized. I don’t even knew that could be possible but I’m never doing that again and I’m never even going back to EDMR. Gentle somatic work has been more than enough for me and body feels better because of it.

You didn’t need anything outside yourself Juan! You were on the path already unfortunately the people you were interacting with at the moment made you doubt yourself. The image of you reaching the “good side” and it flipped to the “bad side” was telling you to not look outside of yourself and understand how the feminine and masculine energies complement each other to see the bigger picture. You are the center and the fountain of your whole being.

I had a very traumatic childhood and used meditation as the gentlest, slowest form of therapy. With deep meditation, which not only deeply healed me but also revealed a ton of information about who I am and everything else in life. Liberation is the state of being after you truly understand who you are and realize that you are not your physical body.

Such an important message! I had done so much emotional healing work, trauma therapy with a somatic therapist, many experiences of deep dives. And so I truly thought my experience with mushrooms would be one of expansion, enlightenment and joy…as that’s how it was spun for me. I was hesitant for Ayahuasca because I’d heard about psychic breaks, and often had very difficult experiences with marijuana. So I wish I’d paid attention to this red flag message my body was giving me. My mushroom journey was deep, dark and filled with every bit of grief, betrayal, fear, abuse and trauma that my scared inner child had spent a lifetime avoiding. It was terrifying and while others felt expansive, joyful and spiritual… my experience felt like the depths of darkness and death. It’s been a year and a half, and now I know so much better. Even a float tank, in utter soundlessness and darkness catapulted me into full on anxiety and panic. The entire time I had to speak to my scared inner child, reassure her… it’s no wonder she doesn’t trust me. I want to learn so much more about this, and plan to join your program soon!

In ayahuasca the death trap is rejection. The entity in his experience that he related to as threat was to be his teaching but it was rejected in favor of salvation. The teaching, however, repeatedly pushed it self forward and was repeatedly rejected. Is there really any surprise here? The plant can tap into amazing intelligence if you are open to it.

I Cant believe the watch this now.. 5 years ago I exactly lived the same experience what he told.. it was horrible..this is serious not a toy

I mean all I am really getting from this is that people have no idea what they are getting into and that is very dangerous, plus it is absolutely not for everyone. Aya is not a quick fix the integration period that follows is hard because you have to deal with everything that is brough up. Plus now this is turning into a mass tourism thing and you have to be careful where you go and who you trust. No, the curanderos can't support you enough because they live in a comunity where this is a part of their life and they see and experience life completely differently that we in the "civilised" western world do, where we created a sick society and we are totally disconnected from everything and we need intense therapy before and after and at least some meditation practice before we even think about attending anything like this. A lot of people in the comments saying how hard it was for years but now they feel better. That is exactly what working on yourself feels like. It's painful and unpleasant. When you mix in something that makes the work 100x more intense and faster and you do it without support of an integration therapists, to me that is insanity. I can empathise, I understand how hard it is, I have gone thorough it myself and although I was prepared my life fell apart but I also was able to process trauma I truly don't think I could have otherwise. I am glad this video was posted, I hope people think twice about what they are doing and that it takes hard work and a lot of time and support to process and heal.

Gracias por compartir, Juan Pablo. Bendiciones! Agradezco por la desprotección.

30 plus ceremonies and many were really tough. The aftermath was tough. It hasn’t fixed things for me. But my life is much fuller. Helped me grow up and become more accountability

I wish people would stop taking spiritual practices and substances out of their specific cultural context and commercialising them, without proper grounding 🤦‍♀️ It’s disrespectful and as we’re seeing, dangerous. It’s not the FU to big pharma that so many want to believe.

Valuable discussion thank you Irene!

Trauma healing work can be quite challenging and involves a balancing act of providing a safe space and resources and preparation in tandem with reprocessing traumatic memories. If you push someone into the reprocessing before they have adequate preparation and resources then it can leave them stuck even deeper in their trauma states. Psychedelics are particularly hazardous since they use chemical intoxication with foreign substances rather than meditative skills to disrupt the ordinary mental filters that keep things in the subconscious out of our awareness. It's harder to withdraw from the encounter if you are not ready for it. Psychedelics can be powerful facilitators of healing but care is definitely needed when using any powerful tool.

I felt similarly when I went to a Vipassana retreat.... I felt scared and unsafe and had some hallucinations once I returned home. I felt more depressed than I had for years... I have no desire to return.

I've participated in 9 Ayahuasca ceremonies. Do not know if I was really prepared or just lucky, so far all of them have ranged from positive to life-changing positive. I quit drinking (used to be a heavy drinker) and do meditation breathwork 5 times a day. Since the beginning of this journey I have never been happier in my life. Many friends and family have joined me, mostly positive with a couple of exceptions. I am no expert, but my suggestion is to pick your Shaman wisely and try to listen to your inner voice before you decide to participate in one of these ceremonies.

Thank you very important info!

Sounds terrifying, it sounds like my experience with pre verbal ptsd and going through emdr to heal it. I can’t even imagine going through this for two years!

Yes sounds like a kundalini awakening. Its intense and brings all the shadow stuff up, that one have not faced yet.

I can't find a source anywhere for any good psychedelics in my area, I suffer some pretty bad depression and i got a chance to try K and man it was a miracle substance, I felt free,the only high or euphoria was from the relief of my vices being released, that's exactly what it did

I had experienced the deepest fear and the snakes crawling under my skin also. I did follow all the protocols preparing for the sessions. It has effected me since and had hypnotherapy to deal with fear of closed spaces like flying, elevators etc. This happened on the 3rd ceremony out of 4. The 4th I was scared to take and made myself sick after drinking it. I am still working with a therapist and fear. I think my fear/terror came from childhood abandonment trauma being put into a childrens home. Been doing intense inner child reparenting and shadow work around being worthy. I practice daily yoga, don't drink and don't take any substances. This fear has effected a romantic connection. My therapist suggested I might have BPD but apart from the fear of abandonment I do not have any symtoms. Mind my romantic partner twice betrayed me before and after me doing the ceremonies to make sense of the connection. After it I started seeing material on NPD and he fits the bill. Three years on I'm still not out of the woods. I no longer question why I've had to go through this but celebrate how far I have come. No longer afraid of elevators and flew twice. Have no more night terrors and feel much safer in my body and living alone. I also do cold water therapy almost daily in the sea which helps me feel safe in my body.

Amazing story!!! I’m going to dig in!

I've been drinking Ayahuasca for 22 years with the Santo Daime church. For sure it's a strong medicine, originally, just for shamans or those going through spiritual trials to be healers. As you can see from other comments, Spiritual awakening can be triggered by meditation, yoga and spontaneously, not just with medicines, and that while it is true that most medicine facilitators don't know how to manage spiritual/kundalini awakening, neither do doctors or most therapists...this is a broad subject.

From what I understand too is that Ayuhasca has its roots in Indiginous cultures and I have found that when a lot of those things are taken out of context out of the original culture and become popularized people don’t have the context grounding and connection discern or utilize it as it was meant to be used. Which then often times has negative ramifications from the cultures who originated the practices as well because they get demonized, or their materials over harvested etc. the fact that a lot of us in this culture are not grounded with the earth with the land (because we have not reckoned with the historic trauma that has been settler colonization) to really be messing with some of these traditions that come from and of the earth. Sometimes it’s a f around and find out kind of thing. But I do wanna mention that, there is the cultural context to it as well. And the fact that, Indiginous knowledge, ways of being and healing, in which some of these plant medicines have the potential to be safe in a lot of cases have either been lost or are struggling to persevere. And when we consider that oppression in and of itself is a systematic trauma, there’s a lot to consider how we talk about and understand it.

Intense conversation - I started it the other day and realized I wasn’t ready to absorb it yet. Something about what is real and the feeling of not completely knowing what is real - but that could be the feeling of expansion.

Great video, very important to be prepared before ceremony like how to utilize somatic self inquiry I’ve been sharing in my spaces how shamans and shamanism is not trauma informed so finding a shaman who is trauma informed is like a unicorn. When working with a shaman also make sure you have an integration team or are resourced outside of the shaman who isn’t trauma informed. Thank you for recovering and spreading this information on the importance of trauma and specifically shamanism NOT being trauma informed. In fact, shamanic initiations are traumatizing in of themselves and require immense specialization to undo the trauma associated with the gifts given through the initiation. Even elder shamans have their traumas passed down although very wise, they can still be a wounded healer and miss the opportunity of refinement/mastery to be a bonafide healer.

We have a saying/ wisdom in Hinduism which goes "Too much Amrit / Manna is also poison". Which tells you Greed never helps the body. I am seeing many people who get access to these drugs become , irresponsible and greedy and overdo it because they think "Too much of a good thing cant be bad right?".

This happened to me as well. Four months ago. Taking one day at a time. Watch out, don't go unprepared.

I'm really glad this was shared thank you, I have been deeply considering this sacred plant but also have done a lot of research... This makes me 2nd think it I know I'd want to do it in a sacred session with people who are nurturing. I also have tried other psychedelics, I have had very very good experiences with mdma and microdosing with 🍄. Still on this journey to say the least good luck to all and trust your gut before doing anything out of your comfort zone that can be life-changing but also traumatic all the best 🙏🕉💓

This happened to me with ketamine at the AIMS clinic in Seattle. They had absolutely no idea how to help me. It’s been a long road back. All of these centers are charging huge amounts of money and you think you’re safe because their medical professionals. Wrong!

What a beautifully valuable conversation on this topic. I think we need to be well informed about our physiology at all times. When we embark on the path of healing and self-development there are more dangers lurking than just plant medicines. For example, I am also thinking of spirtual narcissism. Or the many therapists who call themselves ´embodied´ and yet cannot guarantee a safe setting because they themselves are not yet sufficiently regulated. There are many pitfalls in the healing world. Too bad. That is why learning about the nervous system is so important. Learning the basics yourself at and knowing exactly what is needed. It was the best investment ever for me.

This seems like OCD - the endless loop you experienced was a representation of the loop that people who suffer from OCD experience. We stay trapped in these thought patterns where we fear fear and as a result we don't experience life. The hallucinations that you had after the ceremony were intrusive thoughts. Prior to the ceremony you could keep them at bay but after the ceremony that no longer was possible. Even you feeling the food in your throat and being afraid you were going to choke is OCD, it's called somatic OCD... There is help and treatment, it is ERP and it teaches how to not fear fear... I had a similar experience to yours, I was in the infinite loop during my trip as well, I also experience intrusive thoughts after that seemed like hallucinations at times... I AM SHARING THIS FOR ANYONE who might take a drug and then experience these symptoms after... You are NOT going crazy, there IS treatment, look up Dr. Michael Greenberg, and look up Mark Freeman... OCD is not what you think and there are many great treatments and you can recover... Blessings to all of my fellow people searching for peace and love in this world, you can get better, peace.

Thanks for confirming what I was feeling. I recently had a client come for a past life regression, after having an “accident“, to work through some stuff. After arriving, I discovered client’s accident was a serious seizure that resulted in four skull fractures. It was later revealed that The client has done at least 40 Ayahuasca doses, and only two were with a shaman.🤦‍♀️ I had a strong sense there’s neuroses and perhaps schizophrenia going on. After listening to this video I now have no doubt. Truly sad!😢

My nervous system was very disturbed for at least one month after doing the journey, I was told that my chronic illness will be gone from this journey but actually it got much worse. But mushrooms were much better for me than ayahuasca --- my body rejected aya completely, and it felt that it was very very wrong for me..... there seemed to be something very dark in this medicine which I cannot put in words. But as a highly sensitive empath and a light worker I can say that it's not the best medicine for every person as people tend to believe. I also know someone who committed suicide after that and also someone who became schizophrenic after that. So people need to be careful. Thank you for this video. 🌷🌟🌷