B16A vs B16B: What's the Difference?

Рет қаралды 199,001

4 жыл бұрын

Article: dustrunnersauto.com/honda-b16...
In the world of Honda performance, the B16 is one of the most legendary engines ever produced. At the time it absolutely blew most of the competition away and even today it still offers a ridiculous amount of horsepower per liter naturally aspirated. The B16A is the most common B16 engine, but Honda also built the B16B for Civic Type R, and today we’re going to find out what the differences are and which one is better!
Check out our website: dustrunnersauto.com
Follow me on Instagram: @bryce.cleveland
Gear I use to shoot my videos:
(Buying through these links supports the channel)
Panasonic G7: amzn.to/2FKsmKe
Panasonic 25mm F1.7: amzn.to/2X8LQhG
Rode Mic: amzn.to/2J0lrik
Tascam DR05: amzn.to/2LvYFjR
Neewer lights: amzn.to/2Xem68x

Пікірлер: 341

@Dustrunnersauto 4 жыл бұрын

If you guys enjoyed the video, please SMASH THAT LIKE BUTTON. It helps the channel out a huge amount and helps KZfaq put the video in front of more people. Thanks for watching 😬

@williamparent4320 4 жыл бұрын

what about the b18c1 and b18c5

@WarriorsPhoto 4 жыл бұрын

Smashed! And I hope your V-TEC kicked on!

@randomguyontheinterweb 4 жыл бұрын

A better title for this video would be how many times can you say b16 in 5 mins.

@satched 4 жыл бұрын

74 times. Not counted but a guess

@shakethaspot6301 4 жыл бұрын

I lost count after the b16a1-6 breakdown 😂

@Dustrunnersauto 4 жыл бұрын

😂

@WarriorsPhoto 4 жыл бұрын

LOL, yeah he did say it a lot. (:

@WarriorsPhoto 4 жыл бұрын

You won me over when you said the B16B is a B18C block. Thank you for saying this. It is something people look over all too often. (:

@GarageBuiltHondas 4 жыл бұрын

Nice, thanks for using my clip!!

@Dustrunnersauto 4 жыл бұрын

Garage Built Hondas hope you’re okay with me using some clips from you 😬 keep up the awesome work man! We’re both in Phoenix I think, let’s get a collab going 👍

@GarageBuiltHondas 4 жыл бұрын

@@Dustrunnersauto Use them as much as you want, I enjoy helping out the community!! I'm about 7 hours away unfortunately in El Paso, TX. I do visit every now and then though as my brother still lives there. Maybe someday we can get something together!

@saadareeb4631 4 жыл бұрын

Hey man, love your channel. All this Honda stuff is great and I find it incredibly informative. Would you consider doing videos on the F20C/F22C1 from the s2000 and the H22 from the prelude?

@twmijjit 4 жыл бұрын

I was expecting a detail comparison. This was very high level.

@canyouhearmatt5529 3 жыл бұрын

So happy to have b16b EG8 . It's such a blast to drive I thought it had to have a something because I saw p72 on the block and I knew that wasn't a b16 casting number . Good to know the extra info now. Just got a chipped p28, gonna see what I can make on her 🔥❤️

@nik7870 4 жыл бұрын

Still using eg8 until now . I love it so much !

@Snake2303 4 жыл бұрын

And the most inportant, B16B had a LSD in the gearbox.

@effingwrecked1917 4 жыл бұрын

Same with the jdm b16a

@skaterockerstar 4 жыл бұрын

B16a, some variations came with a LSD transmission.

@effingwrecked1917 4 жыл бұрын

@@skaterockerstar Actually all jdm b16a from the civic 92-00 came with lsd. It is the delsol and 88-91 civic ef with the jdm b16a that didnt come with lsd.

@dirkdiggler9082 4 жыл бұрын

S4C,Y21,and S80 boxes came with LSD and non LSD

@TrueBlueEG8 4 жыл бұрын

effing wrecked Not true, but it was certainly an option on civics and the del sol

@miixfixxgarage 4 жыл бұрын

Superb explanation of these two motors!!

@kevinc9006 4 жыл бұрын

I had a b16a that revvved to 9500rpm ALOT and I drive it for 5 years...still running when I yanked it for a ls VTEC

@jimhiscott2918 3 жыл бұрын

You got tired of having no tourq, thats why you built a ls vtec. So did i my friend. I got me a b18b1 bottom end and built a fully booted ls vtec

@etakishinji7266 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this video. Someone actually offered me a b16a engine but needs a lot of work to restore it.

@waz00z 4 жыл бұрын

Very informative video ! thank you

@lawrencedavidson6195 3 жыл бұрын

Very useful information thanks. Greetings from sunny Jamaica.

@brandonwymore9526 4 жыл бұрын

Like the vids man.great info.can you do one on 90s Toyota 1.8L?

@G_B_2000 8 ай бұрын

Very well explained… much appreciated it

@lancepoh1269 4 жыл бұрын

just a question. since the block of b16b is from b18c, it can convert into a 1.8liter engine (with more torque) by changing the rod and piston? also i believe the b18c block can take a lot more beating than the b16a and the limit of redline is a testimony to that i suppose

@gooo1762 Ай бұрын

Sick video. Thanks.

@yunglizvrd5164 4 жыл бұрын

Detail explanation, thanks bro

@mianriyaan2647 4 жыл бұрын

Good job dude u got a sub

@PRASIPP 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the information .

@samoammo1027 3 жыл бұрын

Del sol b16B here...love the explanation 👌

@davidwootton6633 4 жыл бұрын

U should make a video on what's a better engine b16b or b18c5 since they are both Type R engine's from the same time frame. What are the differences unless its just a .02 litter size change

@__red__general2369 4 жыл бұрын

Can you do a video about the L15B7 and L15BA, found in hondas civic, crv, and accord lineup? That would be much appreciated!!

@teknos380 Жыл бұрын

Very good informations. Thank you.

@lukeskywalker1840 3 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure where you live, but finding a B16A2 engine was very hard. I looked for almost 9 months to find one for my EM1. They're pretty hard to come by.

@SimbaSoundPower 4 жыл бұрын

Could you do a ‘ultimate guide to tuning a b16a’ type video?

@projecthonda 2 жыл бұрын

Good quality video very entertaining

@filthiestcurriedsausageini2625 4 жыл бұрын

Can you do review of f22, h23 and h22 please?

@SilverScarletSpider 4 жыл бұрын

Very good educational video. Now it makes definitely makes more sense why the Honda Civic Type R was so lauded as the forbidden fruit in the 90’s despite being in a FWD chassis. Can you share some info on the H-series engines? The whole Accord Type R and Prelude Type S family tree is still messy to me. And then there is the Acura models too

@enhancedphysique6452 4 жыл бұрын

All type R's do

@joeybunten5544 4 жыл бұрын

Anyone have any ideas on where to post my b16a p30 pistons/rods for sale? I put them in a couple Honda groups but heard nothing, they’re fine I’m just putting forged internals in lol

@user-ku2rz5sf9h 2 жыл бұрын

Which engine of b16A's series is better?

@TheMrmagic101 2 жыл бұрын

Code on my head reads pr3-4 not sure which b16A series engine I have. Gonna check the ecu when I get around to it

@jeremyleo1982 6 ай бұрын

Hey can Greddy B16a timing belt work on a any B18 series engine?

@1Tekdrive 4 жыл бұрын

Looking to put a B16A or B16B into my Swift Sport ZC32. Got heaps more info than I excepted. Great video!!!

@kylelaughinghouse1893 4 жыл бұрын

B20vtech

@ckryses3962 2 жыл бұрын

Don't tell me you are putting in suzuki swift sport!!?!!

@numierymacabando6753 4 жыл бұрын

Good day! I have b16a engine and its already port & polished & tuned. Can you refer me what the best after market camshaft be the best for my engine to have more more power & torque? Thanks!

@kylelaughinghouse1893 4 жыл бұрын

Ctr, skunk2, or brian crower for boost

@vebzuia4336 3 жыл бұрын

My integra DA9 came with a b16a when I bought it from the previous owner. Planning on b20 tho

@preludedudesi5208 4 жыл бұрын

Awesome video

@The_Slippery_Slope_NZ 4 жыл бұрын

So is the only difference between a B16B and a B18CR just the stroke length of the piston?

@jimhiscott2918 3 жыл бұрын

To correct the rumor, they did port the typeR head however they did not polish the ports. Just ported

@dalemyrie597 4 жыл бұрын

How is the zc sohc engine compare to the b16A

@bakhtiyargillani 3 жыл бұрын

What is the fuel consumption of a B16B?

@marioskunchev9855 4 жыл бұрын

Make a video for the defence between neo vvl N1 vs b16b vtec

@assassino1002 4 жыл бұрын

So lucky I have a B16b in my EK4. Never letting go of this car hehe

@channeltv6595 4 жыл бұрын

SpartanHD rub it in why don’t you 🙄

@Dustrunnersauto 4 жыл бұрын

SpartanHD jealous!

@assassino1002 4 жыл бұрын

@@Dustrunnersauto Thanks my dude! Previous owner swapped it in and luckily in my state people want hondas for free, so i bought the car for $6000 w Milano red paint, sunroof and plenty of spoon and mugen goodies! Its the funnest vtec honda ive owned and its only getting better! Also at the moment its in the shop for an ek9 LSD install, driveshafts, new clutch, bearings and seals, and oils/filters!

@Shinny1338 4 жыл бұрын

I'm in the same boat. EK4 with a B16B mated to a GSR transmission. Debating trying to find a CTR transmission or put a shorter final drive, LS 5th gear, and LSD into the transmission I have. I also want to switch the engine over to coil on pack ignition. I think cap and rotor really hamstrings the VTEC. Hoping for 40mph highway and 200hp at the crank.

@assassino1002 4 жыл бұрын

@@Shinny1338 nice man, my motor has basic bolt ons i/h/e atm and i plan to continue that and go for bigger injectors, fuel pump, hondata s300 v3 and a dyno tune. That should easily see 180-200hp at the wheels. coil on pack ignition aint really necessary imo

@gtgodbear6320 3 жыл бұрын

So can you bolt a b16b head to a b18b block for the ultimate ls/Vtec? Re: I guess it would be pretty much just clout that you have a LS/b16bvtec. A b16a head could be just as good for cheaper.

@corymccurdy9169 3 жыл бұрын

Question I have a 95 Civic non VTEC base model I want a VTEC the head on it which head should I use

@jonathanyoung5260 2 жыл бұрын

D16z6 head

@tabswon9572 4 жыл бұрын

B-series is on a comeback 🧟‍♂️🌙

@preludedudesi5208 4 жыл бұрын

Tabs Won heck yes they are, I have 4, ones gonna be an lsv Turbo build

@Rc-ho4sv 4 жыл бұрын

👀

@Vsm_integra 4 жыл бұрын

Part of the reason why they're on a comeback is cuz people are starting to realize that they can't afford a $10,000 k swap build

@WarriorsPhoto 4 жыл бұрын

I would use a B-series engine even now a days. They were way far ahead of their time. (:

@sbfhawk4343 4 жыл бұрын

Yes sir. I just rebuilt my b16B with special secret sauce parts to bring up passed 250+Hp will have to make a video on it when it comes thru.

@bryanmunoz3166 4 жыл бұрын

Do H series next please!!!!

@Dustrunnersauto 4 жыл бұрын

Bryan Munoz it’s on the video to-do list! Honda engine videos seem to get good views, so that video will likely happen sooner rather than later.

@jmmj9332 4 жыл бұрын

Old thread but how simple is it to swap a b16b head onto a b16a block. I.e. would I just follow the cam timing marks and be ok with that?

@Hetzerg 3 жыл бұрын

B16b uses b16a head lol. Its just more refurbished with port and polish.

@zackakmal86 4 жыл бұрын

F20C vs K20A, pls?

@joseromero419 4 жыл бұрын

Do a video on the b17a1 ❗️❗️❗️

@kylestewart15 3 жыл бұрын

can you do one comparing the b18 and the r18?

@rehanali-hy9tk 3 жыл бұрын

R 18 is just an economy engine where as b has many versions like b16 b18 b20 basically B series is for both economy n racing 🏎 whereas R 18 u will find in civic fd as economy engine nothing more

@ricerhonda9940 4 жыл бұрын

Just picked up a b16a second gen for my del sol a month ago just waiting to be back home from vacation to do the swap just gotta order a few del sol specific parts for the b16

@sentree9857 4 жыл бұрын

Owen Monias nice!

@stevenmarin7861 3 ай бұрын

Did you need any fab work ? I’m looking to put a B16 into my del sol as well as

@chinna9056 4 жыл бұрын

Good work man

@dr.wisdom3282 4 жыл бұрын

Ok 👌 got it! B16B the best of the two.....

@628RWHPstang 3 жыл бұрын

Just picked up a B16B tonight

@dannydequiroz4435 4 жыл бұрын

Yup I agree with you.

@stevieh6 4 жыл бұрын

Also had B18c inlet manifold

@bobbycatgt70 4 жыл бұрын

What about a G23? F23 Block H22 Heads and somepeople put K20 pistons in it

@BP-fx3qc 4 жыл бұрын

Just buy an h22a. G23 will suffer oiling issues to the head overtime

@kevineyster1ify 4 жыл бұрын

Wish some one would explain stroker cranks and cams and how they change everything maybe use K-20 K-24

@catch22frubert 4 жыл бұрын

A stroker crank increases the stroke, thus increasing displacement and torque. Downside is you can't rev as high due to increased piston speeds. Cams have nothing to do with bore or stroke. A bigger cam will open the intake and exhaust valves more, and for longer, letting more air in and out of the engine. More air equals more power. An engine is really just an air pump. The more efficiently you can get air in and out, the more power you make.

@meowtrox1234 9 ай бұрын

how about the 4g92 Mivec?

@gtgodbear6320 4 жыл бұрын

Will a B18b bolt to a B16b head with nonVtec cams. Feels like that would be the best setup to build the best LS engine w/turbo. Build s sport version of an Intera RS. A RS$450 runs neer me.

@Dustrunnersauto 4 жыл бұрын

Why would you want a B16 head w/o VTEC?

@seanclitman8730 Жыл бұрын

I've been running my b16a for close to 10 years now and it still tacks like it did when it bought it

@cameronortega4475 4 жыл бұрын

Do a D Series video

@SpeedomusicSM 3 жыл бұрын

I got a b16a my mate has b16a1 ? What is more valuable

@reneromero8667 4 жыл бұрын

I have a b18b1 with a gsr head ls bottom end

@04tacomaguy1 3 жыл бұрын

Where is the best place to pick up a full b16a swap without spending a fortune? I had the chance to pick up the whole swap for 1500 last year I'm kicking myself in the ass over passing that up lol

@Mugenkidd82 4 жыл бұрын

Short version the B16B is a B18C5 destroked. The B16B has a more aggressive cam than the 18.. The PR3 head also flows better which is why the GSR head and R head are not the same

@joninoa4249 4 жыл бұрын

Now u got to do a video of which is better b16b or b18c

@catch22frubert 4 жыл бұрын

Easy answer. B18C by far, assuming they both have an LSD trans. I've driven everything Honda you can drive, b16, b17, b18, and owned an EG hatch with a B18c and LSD trans for many years, and the more torque you have, the better the car is to drive in my opinion. I love the high revs as well, but torque is what really feels good. B16 revs to the moon, and sounds good in theory, but it just makes a lot of noise and doesn't feel like you are going anywhere. Being buried in the seat by torque is a much more enjoyable experience, and it's faster.

@joninoa4249 4 жыл бұрын

catch22frubert I somewhat agree with you but I currently have a b16b and I wouldn’t change it for nothing

@DonYagon03 4 жыл бұрын

Many potential Hondaboys in Russia and I for myself are scared with non-availability of information about such not so popular for Russia JDM engines like B16. The problem is the language barrier. The most part of us have a low level of speaking/reading in English. Sorry to see that the most part of Russian JDM community gives preference to more common (but really awesome) engines like RB, SR, 3S even 4G63 and especially JZ. Thanks for the video, that was exactly what I looked for.

@jb2123 4 жыл бұрын

Love my B16A2

@DirtyMikeSlays 4 жыл бұрын

I had two friends with the b16a. The one had it in a ek hatch and the other had it in a eg coupe. The vtec crossover in the ek was just about as loud as my k20z3, but the eg’s crossover was very subtle and didn’t pop on the crossover. I never really understood that until now

@edgarsoltero1989 4 жыл бұрын

What was the reason?

@DirtyMikeSlays 4 жыл бұрын

Edgar Soltero the only reason I could think of after watching the video is the ek was obd1 and the eg was obd2

@jakenothanks307 4 жыл бұрын

@@DirtyMikeSlays ummmmm putting obd2 into an eg would be stupid af. Or do you mean sir 1 and sir 2?

@catch22frubert 4 жыл бұрын

I've also heard some b series really pop on vtec crossover, and some were softer. My B18C was on the softer side, but I think it depends on your tuning solution and vtec solenoid used.

@Fa5Squad 4 жыл бұрын

The b16b pistons have the highest compression and has the biggest intake came out of all the b series.

@roshanpolog1363 4 жыл бұрын

Which is better? B16 or B18?

@adamdesjarlais8183 3 жыл бұрын

Nothing wrong with the b16a. If your looking to stay stock crank than b16as awesome. B16bs only benefits fitting a b18 crankshaft. Other than that both cylinder heads have the same potential

@2_2_4_3 4 жыл бұрын

B16B rare and comes with higher hp 185 and higher compression.

@enhancedphysique6452 4 жыл бұрын

It comes with 185hp an b16a2 comes with 170hp

@enhancedphysique6452 4 жыл бұрын

B16a 160hp

@2_2_4_3 4 жыл бұрын

@@enhancedphysique6452 thanks go those tripped up

@soto575 4 жыл бұрын

@@enhancedphysique6452 for europe guys the B16a its 160 i dont know about the B16b i know the 185hp was in Japan but i dont kmow in europe if its the same or in USA market ..

@johnbowden7058 4 жыл бұрын

@@enhancedphysique6452 The B16A SIR II made 170hp, the B16A2 made 160

@nitebluesky Жыл бұрын

I wish it was the same price now. HMO sold their full b16b swap for 7000 last fall. The b16a now is roughly 3500 to 4500 ish depending. I'm sure you can get it cheaper somewhere else but people are paying these prices from HMO.

@nickamarit 4 жыл бұрын

Why does it not work longitudinally in a FR configuration? (whereas the K motor can be mounted longitudinally)

@nickamarit 4 жыл бұрын

@Sergio Aguirre CCW?

@nickamarit 4 жыл бұрын

@Sergio Aguirre Do B- and K- have the trans on the same side of the car? Or is it opposite?

@nickamarit 4 жыл бұрын

@Sergio Aguirre Ahh, ok. I get it now.

@Pats-Shed 4 жыл бұрын

The B, D, and H series engines turned backwards. I heard that this was to suit racing in Japan as they have RHD in Japan and the engine balanced the side to side weight distribution. There is a company called KGP engines here in Ireland that convert B16C engines to rotate clockwise for RWD applications in rally cars.

@nickamarit 4 жыл бұрын

@@Pats-Shed nice

@darizo 4 жыл бұрын

Who white ek hatch is that in the video

@catch22frubert 4 жыл бұрын

It belongs to one of the guys from Roads Untraveled. He got it for a steal. He recently made a whole video about it. Check out their channel

@Crypt_Thief 4 жыл бұрын

So would you recommend a b16a or a b18c for a swap?

@Snake2303 4 жыл бұрын

More powaaaaaaaaa, b18 of horse

@2_2_4_3 4 жыл бұрын

B18C5 if you can get one

@petrolhead8851 4 жыл бұрын

HCM 619 I have a bone stock b18c5 in my fully itr swapped integra that I just happen to blew up

@2_2_4_3 4 жыл бұрын

@@petrolhead8851 I love those B18C5 , High revving fun motors as is stock. . Don't need to do much on those out the box. If you want 300 whp boost 8-9-10 lbs stock. The compression is not too high for it. I'm currently rebuilding my B20 block for high Compression 12:1, head is a B16 full Crower built, port and polished.

@petrolhead8851 4 жыл бұрын

HCM 619 oh believe me it was fun while it lasted,I smoked ap2 s2000’s,g35’s,was dope to dope with 350z’s,I smoked v6 accords lol,when I’m done building my f20b swapped ej2 coupe I’ll rebuild my b18c5 to factory spec and maybe just add a kraftwerks supercharger...b20’s are a good n/a monsters When built right

@joserotary9636 2 жыл бұрын

Have one they are awesome engines 💯👍👍👍

@kennythao9558 4 жыл бұрын

Need a new engine for my bro’s 1994 Honda Civic eg coupe

@jwrecka231 4 жыл бұрын

It's like comparing apples and oranges it's not just the engine is the total package of the Type R that makes the b16b epic. Go for a ride in a clean low km b16a Civic then do the same in a low km b16b Type R and you would not even think they were the same car. The b16b is Leaps and Bounds ahead the way it develops power how hard the VTEC kicks and how it just drives is no match and this is coming from a guy who has a b16a2 in my Civic

@willbroccolo8389 Жыл бұрын

b series vs k series cost please

@sukajaa6426 4 жыл бұрын

B18c is op right

@TheMannyAdvan 4 жыл бұрын

They only partially polished the intake bowls.

@psykid1941 4 жыл бұрын

plz do a b18 videoc

@markbanuelos4420 4 жыл бұрын

Is the b16a worth to boost it?

@catch22frubert 4 жыл бұрын

Just boost a B18c. The money difference isn't much, and more displacement equals more power more easily.

@stewartoonagh 4 жыл бұрын

300hp reliable easy n cheap

@tegnando2697 4 жыл бұрын

Dude I have a B20B low comp now I want a B16B

@catch22frubert 4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, man. You don't want a b16 block, what you want is the b16 head. Slap it on your b20 block and enjoy the torque. I never thought b16's were fun. Having No torque sucks and it's slow.

@connoisseuroftigolbitts 4 жыл бұрын

CTR B16B of course

@synchole 4 жыл бұрын

With the amount of money to buy a B16B, Is that amount of money enough to buy a B16A AND modify it and be faster than a B16B or close?

@jonburton8054 Жыл бұрын

Are all those books about engines?

@viveklego 4 жыл бұрын

How do you destroke an engine?

@TrueBlueEG8 4 жыл бұрын

A different crankshaft

@matthewstorm5188 4 жыл бұрын

And longer rods.

@robertquigley6753 4 жыл бұрын

What do you think of the B18B1??

@clueless3398 3 жыл бұрын

IMO, why would they destroke the b-18c?

@ulisesavila2879 2 жыл бұрын

What opinion?

@RedPillVegan 4 жыл бұрын

Subbed

@thefinalroman 4 жыл бұрын

Where's the ultimate matchup B18 VS K20 ????

@reachmorelove4293 4 жыл бұрын

What about Honda d16y8 could you do a about it and d15b

@adamsalazar2430 4 жыл бұрын

Reach More And the D16Z6!! 🤗

@jakenothanks307 4 жыл бұрын

Y8 has a garbage bottom end it has oiling problems

@reachmorelove4293 4 жыл бұрын

@@jakenothanks307 ok so what should I do to fix it

@jakenothanks307 4 жыл бұрын

@@reachmorelove4293 get a z6 block the problem with y8s is they have less oil journals on the crank

@1stock1not 4 жыл бұрын

@@reachmorelove4293 look up the d16 mini me. Good times.

@aqilahazrain5235 4 жыл бұрын

im feel so lucky having B16b engine on my sedan ek 😭

@wendellgreenidge3362 4 жыл бұрын

Ahmad Saifuddin but why not have an h22 or k20 instead?

@leoabrelat9203 4 жыл бұрын

@@wendellgreenidge3362 because of its rarity and its unique design. Also those are completely different engines from the b seres. Also if you race your car the difference in displacement puts you in different classes which can give you a disadvantage.

@wendellgreenidge3362 4 жыл бұрын

An h22 weighs only like 80 pounds more than a b series engine. If you set up the suspension properly there is no disadvantage. Now as for a rare engine that may be the case but the point I thought was to have a high reving performance engine when I could buy a stock b16 for third the price and build something more powerful for the same money as a stock b16b

@spankthemonkey3437 3 жыл бұрын

@@wendellgreenidge3362 I've heard of people getting 4 to 500hp out of the b16b with stock internals

@Mazdatechsenior 4 жыл бұрын

Had b20v. Eagle rods and b16 head. Rev to 9k rpms

@Liveforeever 4 жыл бұрын

Really? What's the build list?

@Mazdatechsenior 4 жыл бұрын

BMWm6e63 pistons RC. 84mm. 12.:5 comp. eagle rods. And hone block.. supertech valve treain. S2 cams and ultra street intake . Ported. Made 230hp. 145tq. I still needed P&P head and bigger cams and fuel.