Yes, I actually meant to address that issue and assumed it would come up naturally. It only occurred to me later that my guests don't know what she normally sounds like, so they wouldn't see those high, wavering flutes she uses in this as a song-specific choice. I should have said so but forgot.

Next up: Sue's basso profundo version of Doki Doki Morning...

Go for it!

@@AndrewHartley Haha, she is lovely but quite scary sometimes, I'll try to catch her in a good mood.

It's one of my favorites off the album. That may not have come across in this video because I didn't want to lead my guests too much, and was keen to ensure they had the space to be candid, if that makes sense. But yes, great song.

@@AndrewHartley Is this kind of no-hype, thought out, planned critique even _allowed_ on KZfaq? Be careful, kk? 😉

@@Varksterable yeah, I’m taking flak for not just being an enthusiast. Unfortunately, this is how my excitement manifests: in analytical discussion 😬

@@AndrewHartley Meh. The internet is mostly idiot. Just keep doing what you are doing and maybe it'll even out.

@@AndrewHartley _this is how my excitement manifests: in analytical discussion_ But also in your big grins when you watch Babymetal perform 😁

Yes, I think there are legitimate reasons to be concerned about cultural appropriation but, sometimes with the best of intentions, people who want to be on the right side of the issue sometimes assume what is, effectively a conservative take: assuming that all cross cultural engagement is appropriative. But this is why I wanted to approach the subject carefully and with people who both know more than me about the subject and whose insight I trust. I thought they were very even-handed and positive.

@@AndrewHartley It's great to listen in on a nuanced conversation about this kind of stuff. Although finding a Thai rapper on your faculty might be a little more difficult. : ) You've probably already got this bookmarked, but if/when you get to 'PA PA YA!!': twitter.com/Fucking_Hero/status/1145354490226155520

@@rickwagner- Totally agree. Whenever I hear complaints prefaced with words like "liberal", "SJW" or "woke", I'm inclined to think the following grievance registers as nothing more than a dog whistle. As one of the guests said, there is no such thing as "pure culture". We are all better served by nuanced takes of people who must be from the group whose culture is deemed appropriated.

Source?

They explained the origin of the fox sign in a Hotwave interview in 2013. Interviewer: I hear its origin was your mistakes, wasn't it? Su-metal: Yes. We were shown the photo to try the sign of the horns. But we didn't understand well. We said, "It looks like a fox" and made different signs. Yuimetal: Our sign has been the fox sign ever since. Su-metal: Seeing our signs, our staff said, "Well, the fox sign is alright." Interviewer: Your staff accepted it, did they? Su-metal: Yes, they did. Yuimetal: From our mistakes... Interviewer: It came out. That's awesome. You can see the whole thing here. It's two minutes and forty seconds into the video. du-metal.blogspot.com/2013/08/talking-on-hotwave-1.html

@@ClawCarver Thanks!

Don't blame YUI. In the interview that's linked here it's Moa doing it wrong. YUI and Su are just fine.

Yes, I think their response was very positive and thoughtful. This is tricky territory to navigate as a non Indian person, so I really appreciated their insight and support. They were very supportive of what I was doing and of the impulse behind the song.

Glad you enjoyed it! And good to know. Thanks.

Yes, I too have started to notice what you said about the lyrics after I started watching videos on the "Babymetal Reactors Resource" channel which has English subtitles. Before, I just focused on how the songs made me feel.

@@emb5091 Have you watched Prof. Hartley's analysis of Yava? That really was when it dawned on me how clever and sneaky Babymetal's lyricist(s) and production team is. From what seemingly is a song full of undecipherable gibberish is in fact a shout of irreverent self expression against conventions. And Gimme Chocolate being possibly a chocolate-covered middle finger to the unfair patriarchal traditions of Japan. Babymetal is the gift that keeps on giving.

@@10Shun IMHO I totally agree about YAVA! 100%. When they placed it in the dark side, I was not surprised at all.

Thank you kindly!

As opposed to kardashian

Yes, I agree. Many thanks for the comment!

Yeah, I misspoke on Band Maid (who I don't know much about). Thanks!

Thanks for the comment!

Yeah, I was going to talk about their meeting Metallica and Judas Priest but couldn't think of a Maiden connection. Thanks!

@@AndrewHartley Maybe one of the closest they've been to Iron Maiden was actually at Sonisphere 2014. Babymetal opened the stage at 12:00 or so and Iron Maiden closed the stage that evening. Babymetal didn't have a show the next day (the day after was The Forum) but my guess is they didn't stick around that long.

I appreciate that. I was poised to quit…

Good question. I'm open to suggestions.

@@AndrewHartley In my opinion, the main focus on the song is the instrumentation mix of Latin/Caribbean with the bits of Flamenco sound to it.

@@synco1732 yes, it has a Miami Sound Machine feel to me

@@AndrewHartley Same! You can go deeper into Latin music genres that inspired the final product. Can’t wait to see your next video upload!

@@synco1732 its funny how people all over the world agrees it sounds latin but a lot of latin american people think it sounds more spanish, maybe a new panel with a spanish person and a latin american person :D

Yes, exactly. I think this happens inevitably, but lots of bands, writers (and fans) are often very rigid and controlling about holding onto what they say is the authentic meaning. What I like about BM is that they are so accepting of and up front about the way songs shift and change their meanings based on audience response, personal backstories, experiences etc. It's a natural part of how songs evolve, but it's rare for bands to embrace that idea so completely.

Thanks! Glad to hear you found it interesting. Appreciate the comment.

I didn’t know that! Thanks

@@AndrewHartley His name is TAKESHI UEDA Lyrics are other guys. Awadama Fever: babymetal.fandom.com/wiki/Awadama_Fever Gimme chockolate Look at composition: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimme_Chocolate!!

I agree.

Thanks!

When I heard BxMxC for the first time before looking at the lyrics, I could not simply understand what Su was singing rather than ambiguity. "Want Some Beat" was pronounced with an acute accent at the end in the song, while "Wasabe （山葵)" has an accent at the first syllable. In addition, there is a difference of pronunciation between two "Wa"s. The spelling is the same but sound is "o" and "a". Of course, it is my own perception.

​@@flugelhornoldman1362 That's really interesting, and good to know. I had wondered if the songwriter was playing with the similarity in sounds between "want some beat" and "wasabi", but it seems like the way it's pronounced in the song makes that unlikely. Thanks!

@@flugelhornoldman1362 Thank you so much, this clears up a question I have had since I first heard the song.

Great observations. Thanks!

Ha! Indeed :)

Yes, I knew that about the stated purpose of the album, though intent doesn't get you off charges of appropriation of itself (in the same way that you don't get away with telling offensive jokes by saying you didn't intend to offend: these things are measured by their effects on others). That said, I agree that the song isn't appropriative for all the reasons we discuss, though I think each one has to be taken on a case by case basis. I agree that some of the words here may just be sound though others have speculated about proximal words in either Japanese or Hindi, so I'm not sure.

I've a few other songs to do first, but I'll get to Kagerou. Thanks!

You're welcome

BAND-MAID also have a deliberate "gap" between their visual presentation and their sound (Hard Rock), but you're right, definitely not a Kawaii Metal group.

I misspoke. First thing to come to mind in the moment. I think they have an element of the kawaii, but I don't know them that well and will trust your judgment.

@@rickwagner- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kawaii_metal_musical_groups Wikipedia actually lists Band-Maid as Kawaii metal! But I would disagree :D

@@AndrewHartley From what I know, the only Kawaii Metal band that had some kind of success is "LadyBaby".

@@BlackArr0w Yeah, I'm not a fan

Quite possibly. Though I'm not sure what that would mean in context. Sujata had some speculative readings of some of the 'sound words' in he song as being close to Hindi terms, but we weren't sure enough to discuss them.

That would be great! :)

Yes, I think the samurai/scifi ethos are intertwined in modern culture. Star Wars is full of vaguely Japanese aesthetics. I didn't know about the Indian band touring with BM. That's very interesting. I wish they were a bit more transparent about this stuff, though I understand that they want to rely on the mystery of the product in its final form and not spend so much time on how the sausage is made. Still...

@@AndrewHartley Good PR to keep fans debating. Keeps interest high and BM relevant. I like the fact that it gives fans the opportunity to create their own lore and believe what makes them happy. For instance- Yui is still in Babymetal. She can't leave as she has been chosen by the Fox God. This brings me comfort. Might not be the best example since Yui and Koba disagree but you get my drift.

She said she disliked the part of the choreography where they appeared to line up to show the multi-armed goddess pose, but she clarified that she didn't have a problem with the choreography itself, but that similar gestures have been used by other performers in mockery of Indian culture. She was not saying she thought BabyMetal were doing this. Hope that clarifies the point. I'll try to get the subtitles working.

@@AndrewHartley Thank you so much for adding English subtitles. I will watch it again for sure.

@@minamihideki7123 These are the automated titles, but hopefully they are accurate enough to give you a better sense of what we're saying :)

Yep :)

Its "hindi" not indi

Who said fun wasn't worthy of analysis or that things which are light and playful don't have meaning?

@@AndrewHartley - of course they have meaning. But my point was only that you need to take into account the context for Babymetal and its crew. They probably do not understand the Indian specific implications. They do everything from their perspective. I generally think you all did a nice job understanding that. So, I am not complaining. And you are a Babymetal fan, so I think you might have as much knowledge as me in that regard. There were some few times where I thought you tried to put too much into it. Many Babymetal songs has a meaning. * 4 no uta: A play with 4 and death. In Mandarin 4 and death is pronounced the same and therefore Chinese (and Japanese to a lesser extent) do not like 4. They like 8 and 9 that both are positive. Thats why you see such strange phone numbers in China. Long numbers full of 8 and 9 and no 4. The story goes that Moa and Yui pestered the crew with this rather annoying song and finally someone decided that this annoying song should be performed live. * Death: it is just a presentation and the talk about Su becoming a goddess is just for fun. * Gimme chocolate: the dangers with being too fond of chocolate * GJ: it is nod to their parents that have done a good job raising them. (Sometimes, it is another text.) * Headbanger: becoming a heavy metal girl. * Ijme, fame, zettai: anti bullying * Megitsune: female empowerment * Onedari Daisakusen: small girls charming their fathers to get money and stuff * Pa pa ya: making fruit sallad * Road to resistance: yet another anti bullying song * Sis anger: not sure, but I think they hate the audience. Or maybe just those that are not nice. * The one: its about the fans and that they are one with Babymetal * Yava: not sure, but it is about Su being confused that it is different. It is one of my favorites. One day I shall try to understand the text fully. Apart from that, most songs are playing with words, Japanese and English. And I think Yava might be one of the more complicated there. I once saw a series of KZfaq videos by a Japanese older gentleman that explained Babymetal texts. He had lots to say of double meanings and being clever with words. It would be fun to find that series again.

@@rolandkarlsson7072 Yes, that was Duane-Metal, now retired, alas. I don't disagree with your assessment, but to me the function of art is generative: it's meanings aren't limited to a single reading or the intention of the creator. They are designed to produce new ideas and impressions, so that the song (in this case) stays fresh, making new thoughts each time you come back to it. I think this is especially true of BM whose meanings are open ended and the audience is asked to complete them for themselves. Your mileage may, of course, vary.

@@AndrewHartley - Thanks - yes, you are right - it was Duane-metal. Searching for him I found his channel: www.youtube.com/@DuaneMetal. Howe nice, I shall look at som of his videos again. Finding meanings in art is complicated. There are several kinds of meanings. * The obvious meaning - what the song is about. Like presenting themselves in BM Death! * Another sub-meaning, like Su becoming a metal goddess in BM Death! * Diverse conscious small things added. Like the play with the Japanese word Desu and the English word Death in BM Death! * Diverse sub conscious things, things added that the performer or writer is not aware of himself. * Diverse things that are context dependent. Obvious when analyzing old stuff or stuff from other cultures. * Meanings that only the analyzer understands or maybe is only possible to understand with some kind of theoretical framework. The three last ones are difficult. And often the reason why I am skeptical to some analyses. It is easy to project yourself or your own culture or beliefs on something where the maker of the piece of art totally and genuinely has no idea what you are talking about. I reacted a bit to one of the ladies not liking the multi arm part of the dance, even took some offence. It did not lead to anything when you, rightly, decided that no offence was meant. Which was nice. But, that it is even possible that Babymetal would mean any offence is quite strange to me.

@@rolandkarlsson7072 Yes, it's tricky. But the issue is not whether offense was intended. It's whether it was caused anyway, particularly in areas where people might perceive cultural appropriation, because--again--meaning and consequence is finally about reception not creative intent. I deliberately raised this issue in this video (and invited these particular guests) because I knew this issue had been raised in the BM community and people were unsure how to process it. I felt confident that people who understand Indian culture and the complex intellectual issues around appropriation would be able to speak to it and clear the air. As you say, it's tricky, but I thought it worth addressing.

Thanks! Hadn't seen that.

"rich university liberals"...hmmm such a loaded phrase chock full of assumptions Funny you made it to the 15th minute with all that preconceptions with the type of people who complain about cultural appropriation.

You weren't listening. No one was complaining. Check the length of the video before you click. If you just want to be entertained without having to think, look for a shorter one. Took me a week before I had the courage to watch.

No one was complaining? Dude, look at YOUR comment. "...is really hard to get through." is about as whiny a bitching one could dish for watching (only) 15 mins of a 54+ min reaction video.

@@10Shunhey I'm on your side. I just answered the comment like you. I'm not the original commentator.

@@jefffromchicago6321 Ooops.. my bad. Sincere apologies mate.