Ban Bike Helmets To Make Cycling Safer: Science Or Stupid? | GCN Show Ep. 476
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Күн бұрынA few weeks ago, Conor told us about a CEO of a cargo bike courier company who has banned his employees from wearing helmets. It’s a controversial take but he claims cycling helmets increase risk when on the bike, so we caught up with him to find out his reasoning. We discuss this and more on this week’s GCN Show!
00:00 Intro
01:47 Bike Helmet Ban
03:22 Interview with Ben from Pedal Me
11:21 Helmet Ban Debate
13:29 GCN Inspiration
16:27 Cycling Shorts
19:50 Coming Up on GCN+
22:03 Hack/Bodge
26:28 Caption Competition
27:52 Comment of the Week
31:00 Coming Up on KZfaq
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@gcn 2 жыл бұрын
Where do you stand on the helmet debate? We know that Ben's views will cause a lot of debate and strong opinions, so, as always, please keep it respectful and pleasant in the comments below.
@Kimberly_Sparkles 2 жыл бұрын
Pro helmets. Period.
@TroubleshootGamingMeds 2 жыл бұрын
I'm pro helmet but anti mandate. Let people do what they want.
@Monocausal 2 жыл бұрын
He is right about an increased willingness to take risk. But having crashed on my helmet in an unpredictable situation and suffering concussion, I also know it would have severely injured me if I had hit the concrete without one. The other lesson is that some crashes will happen without you having any control over it.
@bl8danjil 2 жыл бұрын
Pro helmet use, but pro choice for adults. For business, I don't know, but that's a good lawsuit waiting to happen in that a serious head injury could have been mitigated by a helmet.
@rinkemouris8412 2 жыл бұрын
as a dutchy is weird to see people wearing a helmet on normal city bikes, i dont understand the use of helmets in day to day life
@SonjaTheDork 2 жыл бұрын
12:30. Correlation doesn't mean causation. I think it's the other way around -- helmet usage is higher in areas with higher risk because of other issues. Poor infrastructure, drivers unaccustomed to cyclists.. Most people in my area ride with helmets because we've had incidents firsthand of belligerent or neglectful drivers, whereas things are much better set up somewhere like the Netherlands, so there's less inherent risk.
@pretzelhunt 2 жыл бұрын
He's hoping the risk assessment [compensation] alters the process enough they will treat it with more respect. It doesnt help with other road users' impact obviously, which is already a crazy variable to those injury studies he's talking about... I personally ride around a busy college town without a helmet, and with full headphones, but I damn sure ride like it.
@User-54631 2 жыл бұрын
Just being your brain don’t heal from injury keeps me wearing a helmet.
@lmaoroflcopter 2 жыл бұрын
I didn't wear a helmet, thinking it'll do naff all in an accident, then I had an off and narrowly missed a kerb, which broke my wrist (I covered my head as I went over the bars) which was the only thing protecting my head. Now I wear a helmet. Risk compensation is a thing sure, but... we've already established that the risk already exists anyway, does the increase in risk taken by the cyclist wearing a helmet negate wholly the benefit provided by the helmet in the event that the accident does occur. No? Then that implies we should wear them.
@frozenbean 2 жыл бұрын
@@pretzelhunt Yeah, those of us that live in places with little to no infrastructure and have had bad interactions with other road users definitely need to keep our helmets for the time being. I've been hit twice by drivers who were on their mobile phones, and if I hadn't had a helmet I wouldn't be typing this message!
@paulm9079 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. I think he's making an awful lot of assumptions about human behaviour. In some ways I wish he was right - getting more people out riding, less cars, etc., but an all or nothing approach is at best very optimistic and in reality a little naive.
@oldetymebiker2405 2 жыл бұрын
Ben has convinced me to ditch the helmet and buy a machete.
@cornishcat11 2 жыл бұрын
i cannot fault your logic, we all need a machete with a GCN logo
@jahithber1430 2 жыл бұрын
@@cornishcat11 Global Chopping Network?
@Vermonster23 2 жыл бұрын
Here in America I prefer to ride my bike with an AR…
@petevonschondorf4609 2 жыл бұрын
@@Vermonster23 I guess you're an offensive rider. I'm more defensive, that's why I gave up the road for spinning in the basement; however, a major flaw in my thinking was revealed. To put into perspective I'm 70, and after a good workout getting off the bike and walking up the stairs can be difficult. Well one night instead of the road biting back it was the stairs. The rest was covered by medical insurance, but its limited to physical injury and not wife nagging. I still doing spinning but also a fair amount of gravel riding, at least outdoors I might die with excoriating pain but not the wife standing over me saying "told you so." LOL she bought all my the bikes! Doesn't like my DIY rides.
@tpwkitomobrien131 2 жыл бұрын
Wow. Reminds me of a statistic out of WWI. When British soldiers were required to wear helmets, head injuries went UP, not down. Turns out that with helmets, injuries that normally killed soldiers became survivable - so the tradeoff was more head injuries versus fewer gravestones.
@strobi0001 2 жыл бұрын
4:00 When you pick statistics from different countries and apply on the UK you make a huge mistake. In the Netherlands I don't wear helmet on citybike (I do on roadbike, and 99% of the people do the same) because I can always ride dedicated bike lanes (or in some shared roads cars are limited to a very low speed) where mistakes have such a low risk, while in different countries you share the road with heavy and fast vehicles so making coclusion out of helmet wearing rate is pointless.
@racinqdoqqo5315 2 жыл бұрын
i’m also riding in the netherlands and your argument is really good!
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
Helmets are not rated to provide protection in collision with a car, and are only rated to work up to 12mph, the speed your head will reach if you fall sideways from a stationary bike. Since the energy of an impact increases with the square of the speed, the level of protection falls rapidly, and at typical car speeds, the helmet is effectively useless, so wearing them on the roads is pretty pointless.
@pcm9969 2 жыл бұрын
As a rider in the U.S., I am jealous of your infrastructure in the Netherlands. I wish we had the bike path system you have. I live out in the countryside, and cycling is great there. Drivers who pass me give a wide berth and I feel far safer out here (even though traffic is much faster) than I do in the city, where there are more obstacles to maneuver around and traffic is much more congested. More bike lanes have been created, but the process is slow. And I will say too that drives are much more aware of bicycles now than they were a couple of decades ago.
@davemeise2192 2 жыл бұрын
I completely agree with you. One can often take statistics and manipulate them in such a way that one can show whatever one wishes. The first thing I thought about was comparing US/Canadian cycling injuries while wearing a helmet with Amsterdam or the Netherlands. Clearly the statistics would show an increase in injuries while wearing a helmet because everyone wears one over here and almost nobody wears one there. So statistically, clearly not wearing a helmet is safer. BUT they have a more fully rounded out infrastructure for cycling. That also ties in with his method of mitigating or compensating for risk management. Eliminate risk as much as one can, education etc. If I was riding in a cycling aware and cycling friendly environment (not competing) I wouldn't wear a helmet. However, if I was riding in a not so cycling aware (city streets) or competition environment I would wear a helmet.
@Dezenaamisnietbeschikbaar 2 жыл бұрын
@@richardburton1909 what happens after the collision? You hit the ground, perhaps with your head. Pretty nice to have a helmet on just in case
@nicokeijzer9082 2 жыл бұрын
Fewer people wearing helmets = less injuries is more to do with the quality of infrastructure and type of use of the bikes I think. Growing up in The Netherlands, I first learned to ride a city bike (cheap, sturdy and slow). We have bicycle lanes all over the place (even separate tunnels) and that is the first factor that helps. The other factor (as I found out when I bought a sport bicycle much later) is that city bikes are much safer than 'racing' bicycles because a. they are slower and (crucially) b. you sit upright and have a much better view. To sum it up: I am prefectly comfortable riding a city bike through Amsterdam without a helmet, but I would probably be terrified riding a sports bicycle through London (even with a helmet).
@kidShibuya 2 жыл бұрын
You just need to look at Australia. Wearing a helmet is the law, but more people die on bikes there than anywhere else.
@boswellwhanau 2 жыл бұрын
Nico, I was about to get on my high horse and then read through your entire comment finding myself in total agreement with you! :)
@boswellwhanau 2 жыл бұрын
@@kidShibuya A number is meaningless without context. How did people die? Hit by a land train? Run over by a rogue kangaroo? Run down by a croc? The how is the important part because being hit by a 50 wheel land train is terminal regardless of what you are wearing.
@gcn 2 жыл бұрын
@@boswellwhanau But could the correlation suggest that focussing the bike safety narrative on PPE instead of infrastructure/ driver responsibility leads to more threats?
@marchelligaming 2 жыл бұрын
@@gcn I would agree with this lets mandate ppe for people and dont improove infrastucture, lack of ifrastructure couses danger than not wearing ppe, I have ridden with and without helmet I tend to ride slower w/o one and dont take risks
@skylerschwendeman 2 жыл бұрын
Ben Knowles is falling for some very basic logical fallacies. The reasons injury levels are lower among populations that have lower helmet wearing rates are largely because those countries have better cycling infrastructure. He even says “I don’t know whether it’s better for you to wear a helmet or not” - so why are you banning your employees from doing so? Unbelievably arrogant of him to make that decision for his employees and believe he’s an expert when he clearly doesn’t understand how to analyze data.
@mdbourne 2 жыл бұрын
100% its clear he doesn’t remotely understand the data, or how statistics even work.
@keithfoley-chell1645 2 жыл бұрын
Totally agree. So many assumptions in his discussion, and so many variables neglected.
@Emily09876g 2 жыл бұрын
Why? He's getting free publicity.
@AgentSmith16 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely!! This entire train of thought is based on “correlation implies causation”. Incredible to think where we’d be if statistics were done this way.
@skylerschwendeman 2 жыл бұрын
@@jamespurchase4035 hey buddy correlation still doesn’t equal causation
@mayalman 2 жыл бұрын
As a lawyer, if this gentleman was my client I would tell him that if an employee does get in an accident on the job and suffers injuries that could have been prevented by wearing a helmet he will potentially be liable
@1papasmurf 2 жыл бұрын
Hence how science is done these days: what will the lawyers be able to use to get money for their clients. If it caused insurance companies money once, it must be science.
@Drbudweiser 2 жыл бұрын
Let’s hope he stops blindly following questionable data sets. At least for his sake. I never felt safer with a helmet. I don’t even realize I wear it after a few minutes. I don’t feel like Superman.
@Kimberly_Sparkles 2 жыл бұрын
As someone whose worked in legal quite a bit, which jurisdiction did you base that on? Does it matter his relationship to the employee? I don’t know English law to know. I have to imagine if he’s saying this in public, then he may be protected locally. Dear god, I hope he was smart enough to discuss this with a solicitor before talking to the media. I agree with your point and think that even if this app functions like Uber or Lyft, and everyone is under a 1099, he’d likely be liable for injury in the US.
@mattelliottmusic 2 жыл бұрын
@@Drbudweiser You've contradicted yourself in one sentence and perfectly proven his point. 'I never felt safer' which precisely means subconsciously, you are more likely to take risks, and so are those around you, as they perceive that you are safer. 'Risk compensation' is a psychological fact that is borne out from all statistical studies on the subject (not just in cycling but in all areas where risk is studied) as well as facts like, when seat belts became mandatory in the UK, pedestrian and motorcycle injuries/deaths went up. The 'questionable data sets' always gets brought up but, unfortunately the statistics don't lie and are pretty consistent. However I will concede that I think helmet use should always be a personal choice, but I largely agree with everything else the guy said.
@mattelliottmusic 2 жыл бұрын
@@Drbudweiser You also do what a lot of people do when talking about themselves. When I was discussing a study which found that even hands free phone use is dangerous, they claimed that they were perfectly able to use a phone and drive, hands free or not. We are not always the best judge of how we behave, under various circumstances. Many drivers who are texting and driving, believe they are doing a great job, whereas in fact they are weaving all over the road. The fact that you said you don't feel like superman, but opened with 'I never felt safer' is a case in point.
@junkandcrapamen 2 жыл бұрын
Fine, tell your employees your stance on helmets and try to convince them on the merits, but let them make their own decision.
@1papasmurf 2 жыл бұрын
What!? And let people make their own risk decisions!?? How will be maintain the current sweet of laws keep us safe? (COVID shot, anyone?)
@junkandcrapamen 2 жыл бұрын
@@1papasmurf Bicycle accidents are not infectious.
@woutervanr 2 жыл бұрын
No thanks. You can see in these comments that for many people their research consists of their feelings regarding helmets and personal annecdotes. I have infinitely more trust in actual research proving him right. Cyclists take more risk, on average, wearing a helmet and motorists take more risk, on average, around cyclists wearing a helmet. In Australia they made helmets mandatory and the amount of death/km went up. In NL almosts no casual cyclists wears one and they're the lowest deaths/km numbers anywhere so clearly helmets aren't what's helping the average person. And for every case where a helmet would've helped 9/10 are for car drivers and people falling down stairs/slipping in the shower.
@CrusherUK2013 2 жыл бұрын
@@woutervanr Sorry that's like comparing apples and oranges. Have you ever driven in Australia?
@cloroxbleach9222 2 жыл бұрын
@@woutervanr Sounds like the deaths are more because of psychology and not because the helmet fails at its job of protecting the head. That's a dilemma
@garienri 2 жыл бұрын
Risk mitigation goes out the window when you get blindsided by a drunk driver There is absolutely no way you can be in 100% control of the risk on the road, the only thing you can do is use a helmet to protect yourself from stuff outside your control
@alxie 2 жыл бұрын
A helmet wouldn't save you from a drunk driver anyways, it was designed to prevent head damage when falling, not when being hit by an uncontrolled 2t vehicle traveling above 50km/h.
@ianhuckle8101 2 жыл бұрын
@@alxie 100% correct, a bike helmet will save you from a very specific accident at a bike speed. This is exactly what the guy in this video is saying. Sometimes, wearing a helmet makes people & drivers around them, over confident.
@OriginNowSound 2 жыл бұрын
A lot more is out of control than you think. You cant even control if you have a heart attack.
@ianhuckle8101 2 жыл бұрын
@@OriginNowSound that's true but why not wear a crash helmet at home then. Recently heard of a guy who tripped over a rug, hit his head on the coffee table & was dead before he hit the ground.
@verityviolet 2 жыл бұрын
@@ianhuckle8101 any evidence or are you just assuming that?
@glennet9613 2 жыл бұрын
A helmet only protects one part of the body. I don’t ride any more recklessly because I’m wearing a helmet because a crash can still break my bones, my spine and put me in a wheelchair for the rest of my life.
@ZebraLemur 2 жыл бұрын
I had a concussion riding a bike at about 3mph with a helmet and falling off. The head is just so much more fragile than everything else. Even in the absence of reckless driving, it's a long ways down to hard cement.
@gcn 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for replying Glen - we cyclists certainly don't ever want to crash!!
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
"A helmet only protects one part of the body." A very good point, as almost all the cyclists who died with a significant head injury also had other catastrophic, fatal injuries. As one commentator put it, it makes it easier to identify the body, but it doesn't prevent the death.
@ninetendopesaitama2107 2 жыл бұрын
Exactly. This argument is utterly bs. Its like saying people become down hill pros wearing a helmet. And are taking the risk of 5 to 6 m jumps. Sure.
@Justin-hn9uv 2 жыл бұрын
@@richardburton1909 Conveniently ignoring the fact that we cannot know the extent of people who have simply gotten up and walked away from crashes that might otherwise have caused serious head injury. A common problem of implementing a safety measure is sometimes you cannot know the extent of its success because unhurt people don't present to emergency rooms and become verifiable statistics, people with their skull split in two do.
@alanthompson637 2 жыл бұрын
It makes perfect sense, the more risk you feel the more careful you are. If cars came with a large sharpened spike on the steering wheel, people would drive a lot more carefully!
@redsandokan 2 жыл бұрын
Ive removed the brakes from my car, its done wonders for my driving skills
@skiparock 2 жыл бұрын
I wore a helmet to watch this, hopefully it protected me from this advanced muppetry
@jagrutirathod 2 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂
@bettyjones8363 2 жыл бұрын
LOVE IT!!
@yaacov9008 2 жыл бұрын
😂
@becmango 2 жыл бұрын
Top comment.
@ACESandElGHTS 2 жыл бұрын
🍤🍤🍤🍤🍤/🍤🍤🍤🍤🍤 Five out of five shrimp comment. It looked like Ewan McGregor just pulling random words straight out of his ass. "I have no idea if using a helmet is effective." Great scientific basis.
@davidpatrick79 2 жыл бұрын
Benjamin makes a lot of great points, but none of them justify taking away the choice of his employees to protect themselves
@Hashslingingslasher- 2 жыл бұрын
"but none of them justify taking away the choice of his employees to do what they think is protecting themselves" Fixed that for ya
@ChiTownBrownie89 2 жыл бұрын
seems like we are in the day in age where companies can make personal choices for us.
@christopherjohnston6343 2 жыл бұрын
@@Hashslingingslasher- nah. All he has is correlation and his theories on the matter. It's literally just his opinion. Correlation does not equal causation. It could easily be that increased helmet wearing could be a response to more dangerous conditions.
@Hashslingingslasher- 2 жыл бұрын
@@christopherjohnston6343 Everyone's opinion is their own, including his employees
@pcm9969 2 жыл бұрын
If he doesn't believe in helmet use, that's fine. For him. He has no right to tell his employees not to wear a helmet. That should be THEIR choice. And, as others have said, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. Attitudes vary from country to country and region to region. Riding conditions are also quite varied as well. I live in the country and riding here is great now. But it didn't used to be that way. A decade or so ago, I could reach out and grab the mirrors of drivers passing me. Now they usually change lanes completely to go around. On the other hand, riding around the university was horrible. Traffic was bad and they didn't watch out for cyclist's the way I thought they would around a university. Many countries have elaborate bike paths and routes to protect cyclists, unlike many (if not most) areas of the U.S. The point is, there is a lot more to this subject than simply saying helmet use causes increased risk. It's a simplistic conclusion to a complex issue.
@johngallien9467 2 жыл бұрын
Helmet Debate: I have worn a helmet while riding on roads for years. I never needed a helmet until I did. My crank-arm unexpectedly and suddenly broke while accelerating from a standing stop. Despite that I was wearing a properly fitted helmet, I still sustained a very mild concussion. Had I not had the helmet, I surely would have fractured my skull. The protection the helmet gave me had nothing to do with my riding behaviour.
@gcn 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing 🙂
@ACESandElGHTS 2 жыл бұрын
And as a host pointed out, had you simply X-rayed your bike daily like most of us or simply bought a new bicycle every 48 hours, you lilely would have spared yourself a head injury. The UK anti-helmet camp is genuinely puzzling. When the world bans motor vehicles I'll consider it in town, but even then going off-road I would never.
@jowen85 2 жыл бұрын
flippin hek, wish I had power like that! I would have just fallen on my foot
@MaximRecoil Жыл бұрын
Do you also wear a helmet when driving or riding in a car? How about when just walking or standing? Ordinary falls (not on a bike) are the number one cause of head injuries, and car accidents are the number two cause.
@markleigh47 2 жыл бұрын
This is a man who understands the social dynamics of risk. Well done. Right or wrong, risk is a subtle and socially conditioning phenomenon. He makes a lot of of sense!
@christopherkelly9153 2 жыл бұрын
From someone who has been in a catastrophic bike accident that was not my fault, another cyclist going the wrong way came around a group and hit me, STUPID. Not all accidents are controllable by cyclists.
@Kimberly_Sparkles 2 жыл бұрын
Hit by a car. Same.
@amjan 2 жыл бұрын
"another cyclist going the wrong way" - so your accident was ALL in control of a cyclist.
@endcensorship874 2 жыл бұрын
Exactly.
@tictoc4156 2 жыл бұрын
@@amjan the question is. That cyclist going the wrong way was using helmet? Most stupid stuff i see from cyclists on the street are from ppl not wearing helmet, proving this CEO wrong, people will do stupid stuff because they are stupid not because they wear a helmet.
@OriginNowSound 2 жыл бұрын
Ive had car doors open on me going fullspeed .. Been hit buy a van comming out of a driveway , fullspeed. Fell off my bike down hill at 35 mph walked away with brusies every time.. I think it helps im used to falling from skating and skateboarding gymnastics in school and in fairly good shape. If i was not in such shape and couldnt fall as well as i can like my mom or dad then their decision to wear a helmet is no biggie just as mine not to
@bmorlok1 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely idiotic reasoning by this guy. He tweeted this too: "People taking risks that are sufficient that they feel they need to wear helmets are not welcome to work for us."
@DanielButler92 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if he now allows for extra time to take less risk? Or pays people more now to encourage less risk. Regardless of right and wrong this should he personal choice.
@moisesrosario9716 2 жыл бұрын
for me it seems your typical corporative "stadistics and spreadsheets over context" mindset. i consider helmet usage as something very important on most of the world; yeah people on the netherlands can safely cycle without a helmet but most of the world don't really have the adecuate conditions to cycle safely(mainly on commute) without a helmet; cycling itself it's not dangerous but the enviroment can be dangerous. (also helmets can also add space for mirrors, cameras and sun visors so they can fill multiple roles)
@mboothy 2 жыл бұрын
Well when you're riding in central London with two passengers in the front of your cargo bike you shouldn't be taking risks that put you in so much danger that a helmet would make a difference (especially as the passengers are very unlikely to be wearing one either).
@milesrosen2223 2 жыл бұрын
Saw one of his riders fly through a red light with pedestrians on green today. Sure he was "riding in such a way to mitigate risk"
@bmorlok1 2 жыл бұрын
@@mboothy By that same reasoning nobody should wear seatbelts in a cab
@ronhuffman7973 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting theory, but… personally ruined 3 helmets (with my head inside) one hit from behind with no possible avoidance on my part( concussion) and two helmets ruined by mistakes of my own with a headache to remind me that your not always on your game. If you ride long enough, the odds are your going to need one.
@zivkovicable Жыл бұрын
55 years of cycling. Never needed one.
@WillPower46 2 жыл бұрын
As someone who rides a lot of motorcycles I can confirm that I am way more of a lunatic when I am wearing full PPE as opposed to when I am commuting in jeans I am very slow and careful as I am aware of my vulnerability a lot more. So I take the point on risk compensation on board.
@imbalolpro 2 жыл бұрын
I have a friend that has been hit twice (yes twice) while standing still at a red light. Without the helmet she'd be dead. She had a total of 11 brain hemorrhage, broken Jaws, arms, nose, bones etc. Helmets saves life.
@michielfm 2 жыл бұрын
According to his logic the helmet caused the crash 😂 The driver clearly had no empathy with cyclist because there are non due to the helmets!! Also he become more risky because he knew the crash wouldn’t kill her so he stepped on it 😂
@lakelobster 2 жыл бұрын
That's an argument for safer streets more so than helmets. 3600+ pedestrians are killed in traffic crashes in the USA/year, yet we aren't going to say they should wear helmets. Most crashes are a result of poor street design, that's what needs fixing.
@rob-c. 2 жыл бұрын
Sounds like the helmet completely failed to do the slightest to protect her.
@imbalolpro 2 жыл бұрын
@@rob-c. no. Her skull would have been crushed and she'd be dead without it.
@OriginNowSound 2 жыл бұрын
Tbf we all have the ability to make our own decisions about our saftey but then we get toled to position our selves in scary places on the road eg boxes infront of trafic where if a car shunts in to another at a red light , you will be involved in the shunt. To folow law you have to override your own saftey thinking to abide by silly road laws. ... In the wild you would think for your self and get your ass out of dangerous precsreous situations by your own thinking.... I think this is why you see so many cyclist running read lights because it is probably safer when done like a normal junction with out lights
@ZOB4 2 жыл бұрын
Why wear seat belts? Why have life boats on cruise ships? Why have fire escapes? This guy's logic is completely flawed and I would never work for him in a thousand years. He is going to cause a burden to the NHS with his ludicrous policies, and shame on you for giving him so much of a voice here, GCN.
@alexseguin5245 2 жыл бұрын
I guess that must mean that the Dutch healthcare system is overburdened because of cyclists head injuries? Oh wait, it isn't.
@liamkaloy 2 жыл бұрын
Its the second time in a short period where popular bike related YT channel undermine the effectiveness of helmet usage. They do it because topics like this generate a lot attention, views, comments etc. - in other words it generates them $$$ - and unfortunately potentially takes health/life from people who after watching this will decide to not war a helmet.
@midknight2K 2 жыл бұрын
@@liamkaloy this channel has also talked about the MIPS system crash lids and how they can save lives unlike not wearing one.
@gcn 2 жыл бұрын
Hi, thanks for the reply. 👍 We are in no way advocating Ben's controversial stance. By enganging in this debate, we are also raising awareness about other issues, notably the effect infrastructure and cycling culture have on our safety. We always promote helmet use, but by sharing Ben's logic, we open up the wider debate!
@ljadf 2 жыл бұрын
Ooh, sorry GCN you're a bit late with the backpedalling, like it or not you have a responsibility to take the high ground when deciding to fan the helmet debate. I'm seriously disappointed, but I suppose you've made money so...
@bulletprufrodo 2 жыл бұрын
I have had two accidents when I've been moving slowly that result ed in head injuries, that were unavoidable on my part. From my experience, I would encourage people to ride helmets.
@richardharker2775 2 жыл бұрын
Same. 3 crashes on bike paths non of my fault. Less than 20kph and 2 concussions from those incidents. I still like to give the opinion of choice but doctors in emergency will give very grim advice.
@grantbeerling4396 2 жыл бұрын
Bike Helmets; Correlation is not necessarily causation, but he is right in this case. There is an old law that says that the worse you make the braking system on a car, the safer people drive as the assessment of risk is higher, and therefore a greater braking distance is allowed for and therefore also a slower speed is considered. ( I once drove some distance just on a handbrake, long storey, but 27mph was fast enough). I can't remember than name of the law, but a paper was written about it I think in the 1950's concerning Volvo's and the consequences of better braking systems , the result was people brake later when the brakes are better, ie how late do volvos brake? They had a reputation for having bad drivers as the cars were considered so 'safe' in the 1970's. This is about the annoying issues of cognitive responses that are not always straightforward ie regression to the norm in statistics is the classic. ie a person at the top of thier game will statistically fail more than a person at the bottom as the room for improvement for those at the bottom is greater ( ref; Kahneman, nobel economics winner 'Thinking Fast and Slow', Israeli flight instructor story). Also car drivers see you as a softer ie unprotected and give you more room, I have experimented with this, though unscientific it always seems to work, but it would be an interesting experiment on a mass scale. ( at least 2000 respondents would be a good figure, along with accurate measurements and driver questionnaires asking what they noticed, though if we all stopped wearing lids would drivers revert back to bad habits?, answers on a postcard.) Reality; I also descend way quicker with a lid.
@DrSomhairle 2 жыл бұрын
The other thing I thought of was, I work in a lab, we wear eye protection, but don’t necessarily go around splashing things in our faces because of this, PPE is for the times when you have an accident and you don’t want to lose your eyesight, the same applies to helmets and brains! I don’t think people are more reckless when they wear ppe, accidents can happen. Sharing roads with cars and lorries though is a massive problem in countries like the uk where the infrastructure is poor and the cars drive like crazy. Wear a helmet, not to ride more recklessly, but for the case when someone else does and you end up on your head, your brain will thank you!
@mattelliottmusic 2 жыл бұрын
But if you didn't wear eye protection you would no doubt take even more care. I think that is the point.
@DrSomhairle 2 жыл бұрын
@@mattelliottmusic I disagree, you wear the protection because of the times when the unexpected happen which could result in the loss of eyesight. Likewise, you wear a helmet for the times when, regardless of how careful you think you are, you may still have an accident and end up on your head. The consequences are devastating, and yet probably rare, yet you wear them to prevent this.
@woutervanr 2 жыл бұрын
@@DrSomhairle That's nice that you disagree, but he has actual evidence from proper research supporting him. Your personal feeling regarding ppe are fairly meaningless.
@DrSomhairle 2 жыл бұрын
@@woutervanr It's not a personal view on PPE, people in labs don't work in a sloppy manner because they wear protective glasses, it's protection from accidents. I have never had a splash on my glasses and have only heard of 2 examples in my career. however, these people were not working recklessly. You cannot account for all accidents which may happen, and wearing PPE is there to prevent the worst from happening. Plus you can't yourself fact check the research he speaks to as it wasn't referenced in the piece, so you cannot comment on how valid or not this was. I however have 30 years experience working in and around labs and know that PPE is extremely useful, and can, and does save people when accidents do happen.
@woutervanr 2 жыл бұрын
@@DrSomhairle I already have checked the research he references to actually because it's not really new research and this debate isn't either. Also, he did refer to it on his Twitter account, but I already read it a couple of years ago. I don't care about your experience, it's not scientific research. It's just as meaningful as the comments refering to a "friend" that was following all the rules, taking no risks and would've definitely, 100% been killed if it wasn't for a silly plastic hat. Edit: And just because PPE might be helpful in other situations/occupations doesn't mean that all PPE ever invented is useful.
@andyamos8594 2 жыл бұрын
My life has been saved at least twice thanks to wearing a helmet, both times out of my control due to road surfaces. If I followed computer risk statistics, I'd be dead now!!!
@jtcedwards 2 жыл бұрын
Me too. I am currently still recovering from being hit from behind by a car. If it wasn’t for a helmet I would definitely be dead. And if it wasn’t for the bontrager wavecell my concussion would have been substantially worse. Whoever claims that not wearing a helmet is better is daft.
@robertm1552 2 жыл бұрын
What was the risk you put yourself in to have it twice save your life?
@kidShibuya 2 жыл бұрын
But the point is that without that protection you might not have ridden so fast over that surface to begin with
@rob-c. 2 жыл бұрын
Prove it.
@cappaculla 2 жыл бұрын
@@robertm1552 Moronic comment of the week
@shaunthomas112 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you to the people who looked after me in Llangollen, when a tractor pulled out in front of me . And a big thanks to KASK for protecting my head .
@Outsideville 2 жыл бұрын
Bad justification. He admitted one person would have been helped by a helmet. That seems good enough to me. I don't want to be that one person. Totally idiotic to ban anyone from wearing one.
@ianhuckle8101 2 жыл бұрын
The countries with the highest rates of cycling ( Denmark, Netherlands etc... ) have it ingrained in their psyche and also the infrastructure. . We need to get away from the idea that cycling is an action performed by someone in lycra at breakneck speed. In Copenhagen it's just a way of getting around. Most people wear normal clothes, no helmet & wouldn't think twice about their kids riding the same. Asking people on here is kind of counter intuitive as they're most likely not riding to the shops, in a bike lane at 16kph. If you want to put people off cycling , make it a legal requirement to wear a helmet have insurance etc... if nearly always your journey is just for day to day running around. Cycling is no more dangerous than being a pedestrian if everyone concerned, pedestrians, cyclists, drivers etc... all have mutual respect for each other. Drivers ( & I live in central london ) do not have a problem with someone taking their kids to school by bike, they are nearly always respectful. The people who really piss them off are lycra clad, aggressive, red light jumping twats. Wearing a helmet will not save you from a white van man you gave the wanker sign to 2 sets of lights back. I've been riding & racing bikes for over 45 years & rarely feel the need to wear a helmet, even in central london, which as it happens now has an amazing network of bike lanes.
@julian_hesse 2 жыл бұрын
If you actually want to be safe, just drive safe AND wear a helmet!!!
@Laudrengen 2 жыл бұрын
And wear it whilst walking too :) Oh and most accidents happen in the home, so no need to take it off once you get in :p
@jhgylugkfhfhlgf 2 жыл бұрын
There's also some studies indicting that (motorvehicle) drivers tend to take more risk around cyclists wearing a helmet (compared to cyclists not wearing one); so I'm not sure it's as simple as you state.
@jimdunlop1404 2 жыл бұрын
And yet empirically this doesn't happen. You have missed the central point of the video.
@philspencelayh5464 2 жыл бұрын
Is that ride safe, or just get rid of the bike and drive a car instead whilst wearing a helmet?
@choanlpoto 2 жыл бұрын
I dont know if the ceo cover this point. But also his company is transporting people by cycle. The biker transport someone who doesn’t wear a helmet. So it’s logical to not wear a helmet and pedal safer, be careful for yourself and then for the client. If the biker wore helmet, maybe they would take unnecessary risk.
@Aeronwor 2 жыл бұрын
I'm with Dan on the helmet question, when I just hop of to the shops/pub I normally don't wear it, when training or going on a long ride I do. I also wear a helmet when out with my daughters. It seems like Ben took the arguments against helmet mandates and ran with it. Dutch statistics show, helmets have little impact in day-to-day riding/commuting but do in a sport (mtb or road) setting.
@gcn 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for replying Aeronwor! It's always important to note that Dutch cycling infrastructure is amongst the world's best so not equally applicable to situations in other countries!
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
@@gcn It is applicable, because it shows what works. If infra works and helmets don't, which is what all the reliable evidence shows, why does everyone concentrate on helmets to the exclusion of infra?
@gcn 2 жыл бұрын
@@richardburton1909 Helmets are cheap, infrastructure is expensive would be a simple response to that. In an ideal world, infrastructure would remove all the risks but this takes time and money that many administrations don't have or aren't willing to spend. Whilst infrastructure remains largely inadequate and attitudes towards cyclists problematic, helmets are one of the best means to offer some level of mitigation against the risks of riding on the road.
@Justin-hn9uv 2 жыл бұрын
So on the trip down tot he pub or the local shop your head is magically safe? Why would your destination dictate why you do or s=don't war your helmet? Especially fi you are riding back from the pub after presumably drinking there. Don't you think it would be a bit of a cruel irony if you wore your helmet on long rides and in front of your daughters to be a good role model but ended up with a serious head injury peddling down to buy some milk?
@Aeronwor 2 жыл бұрын
@@Justin-hn9uv speed matters a lot. At low speeds (like going to the shops) the actual speed of collision will be closer to walking speed (most day to day cycling is 10-15 km/h that is a running pace). Do you wear a helmet when out walking/running? The dutch statistics I was refering to are from the emergency room, they clearly show a pattern, high speed - way more head injuries, low speed - more grazes and limb injuries.
@milesnewman2176 2 жыл бұрын
The value of a helmet can’t be dismissed, I was riding down a quiet country lane . I didn’t spot the hole in the road hidden by the shade from a tree. Before I knew it I was horizontal on the tarmac . Skin on my elbow or thigh now missing . I looked at my helmet only to see it crushed on one side.! Without it I think I’d have really hurt myself. I was only travelling at 30k or so, relaxed and enjoying the sun. Not a high risk environment at all. I’d always wear a helmet, I kept a photo of the inside of the helmet to remind me of what could have been.
@wotexpat9367 2 жыл бұрын
That Pedal Me founder is a lunatic. Encouraging people to fail to use a helmet is just wrong. You cannot eliminate factors outside your control, and therefore you need to mitigate those risks. That bloke is just plain dangerous as is his rhetoric.
@jeremylee6352 2 жыл бұрын
i was like whut? it's never abt self ... but things like ... falling branches ... flying debris ... etc ... sure, a helmet can't eliminate all head injuries ... but it's a last-ditch "insurance" for a chance of survival ... as for statistics - he'll need to take driving culture into consideration as well ... different countries hav different regards for cyclists ... and they legit drive different speeds too ... ie, in my region, SG drivers drive at speed limit, same thing as Bangkok ... but in Hanoi, ppl go a lot slower ... and the demographic is different as well ... geez man ...
@MrMichaelfalk 2 жыл бұрын
I would call him stupid.. full blown Dunning-Kruger effect.. The science is clear - you save lives with helmets... from a danish study that has looked at 23 studies... "use of bicycle helmet reduces the risk of getting a head injury with approx. 49%. At the same time, the risk of getting a serious head injury is reduced by 60%"
@jeremylee6352 2 жыл бұрын
@@MrMichaelfalk i'm resisting very hard not to call him names to be very honest ... lol ... his take on wearing a helmet means taking more risks - that's a behavioral issue that cannot be generalized ... not every cyclist is a speed maniac ... geez...
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
@@MrMichaelfalk "I would call him stupid.. full blown Dunning-Kruger effect." Wow, just wow! He's looked at the data, as have I, and the reliable, large scale, long term studies show that at best, cycle helmets do not reduce risk, and at worst increase it; and you accuse him of suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect! Hysterical. You don't give details of the Danish study, but I'm pretty sure that like all the similar studies showing significant protection from helmets, it is short term, small scale and uses suspect methodology.
@marionunes8930 2 жыл бұрын
What a brave marketing play, obtaining business exposure to a wider audience for free with a simple controversial change. Hope he understands that he will legal liable for any injuries caused by the non usage of safety equipment by his employes. What really suprises me is that gcn, that is a channel for the average cycling joe promotes this message and even somehow agrees with his point of view. Whats next, using a ligth at night makes you a target for cars because they can notice your presence???
@jhgylugkfhfhlgf 2 жыл бұрын
Really surprising to hear gcn being referred to as 'for the average cycling joe'. IMHO that only holds true if you take the average only from the population that rides (racing) road bikes (maybe also gravel bikes) with sportive aspirations. There's tons of cyclists outside that population.
@pcm9969 2 жыл бұрын
And he is setting himself up for being liable by not allowing his employees to wear helmets. If he simply makes it voluntary, he would be fine.
@pretzelhunt 2 жыл бұрын
He really wont. Delivery riders are individually bonded, and the evidence isnt clear who's at fault in your prognostication of injury..
@Justin-hn9uv 2 жыл бұрын
"What a brave marketing play" You say brave, I say cynically reckless. Anti-helmet zealots have tried just about every imaginable tactic to disprove helmets are sensible safety precautions and have failed miserably. I have to assume their motives aren't evidence and facts; the bloke in this video surely didn't have any, but it is an ideological point of view. It is a resentment of the state telling them what to do but given refusing to comply with other things the government mandates they do has real consequences they pick this low-risk issue to protest. Given the amount of energy that they've put into the anti-helmet crusade you'd think wearing one was like donning a torture device. I don't know what ones they've chosen to wear but once mine is on and adjusted I can ride for miles and completely forget it's there.
@galenkehler 2 жыл бұрын
"The hands can't hit what the eyes can't see" -Muhammad Ali
@hopleyp 2 жыл бұрын
I can ban my employees from wearing helmets and get free advertising on GCN
@rizzlerforthergyatt 2 жыл бұрын
Helmets saved my life in multiple occasions. Seeing them debating of banning makes me lose fate in cycling
@rob-c. 2 жыл бұрын
You can’t prove that. Anecdotes don’t count.
@AndrewChuter 2 жыл бұрын
I've worn a helmet on countless occassions and it didn't save my life because I didn't collide with anything. Wearing my helmet is a waste of effort virtually all the time.
@gja2000 2 жыл бұрын
Regarding the pedal me no helmet CEO. He made an argument that helmets give the perception that bike riding is unsafe.. That's what car manufacturers (at least here in the US) used to avoid putting seat belts in their cars: We don't want our customers to think our cars are unsafe. Doesn't pass the logic test.
@pretzelhunt 2 жыл бұрын
Youre thinking of airbags. Yes: one company (read: marketing department) thought that about lap belts or "they'll tear you in half! or what about fire!?". Seatbelts primary function is to hold you in the driving position longer. No helmet is going to keep you in control of your bike, when it's off the road surface, to administer inputs safely like a seatbelt does. ....riding into clothesline-height objects are the one thing, possibly....
@talonlan 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah but air bags and seatbelts are rigulously tested whereas cycle helmets are not really tested very much.
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
"Doesn't pass the logic test." I'm afraid it does. My MSc dissertation examined the relationship between what people thought the risks of cycling were and what their perception of the efficacy of helmets was. The people who thought that helmets were much more effective than they really are also thought that cycling was much more dangerous than it really is. The sole proven effect of helmet promotion and laws is to deter people from cycling.
@alisoncunningham4062 2 жыл бұрын
This is the first time I am ever commenting on a video (not just on your channel but ever) because I have never disagreed with a topic so whole heartedly that I have ever felt the need to voice my opinion as strongly as I do just now. I can't believe you aired that conversation with Ben. Many people could have watched this video and taken what Ben has said as fact, and because you did not provide another person on the opposite side of the argument to debate his ideas, they might leave your video truly believing that his ideas about wearing a helmet are the only correct ones and that a helmet won't save their life in an accident as long as they manage their risk. If I believed what he had said around 3 years ago, I strongly believe would be dead right now (and no, I was not taking any unnecessary risk at the time). People come to your videos because they respect your opinions and see you as experts. Because you didn't give any real strong opposing views or any strong evidence one way or the another such as links to studies (Ben provided NO evidence to support his views), people will assume that you agree with this and take it as fact. I think is highly irresponsible and dangerous on your part and I'm really disappointed.
@mdbourne 2 жыл бұрын
Completely agree, well said. It was irresponsible on GCNs part.
@keithfoley-chell1645 2 жыл бұрын
Totally agree. Incredibly irresponsible by GCN. But I believe everyone makes mistakes, so I’ll still be watching next week.
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
"Many people could have watched this video and taken what Ben has said as fact,......." Well, that would be good, because it is a fact. Cycle helmets don't save lives, that's what all the reliable, large scale, long term data shows.
@mdbourne 2 жыл бұрын
@@richardburton1909 haha and your comment shows you have zero clue how to read and interpret data and statistics
@meibing4912 2 жыл бұрын
Suggest you try to study the issue. There is lots of scientific research on this. The adverse health effects of mandatory helmet wearing is very well documented and one main effect is people ride less and thus suffer deteriorated health that kills some of them - more than the helmets save. It is also a reason why many biking countries - countries that actually care about cycling and cyclists and who research these matter - do not want to make helmets mandatory. (I personally do not think its good to ban wearing them either - people should just be left to choose themselves).
@guussophie3074 2 жыл бұрын
In the Netherlands (where I was born) and in Japan (where I now live), nobody (me included) wears a helmet when riding a bicycle to go shopping, ride to school, or ride to the train station. When I'm on my road bike or commuter bike, I do wear a helmet, because I'll take more risk! Bans are just as bad as making it mandatory.
@jessetamez7362 2 жыл бұрын
Makes perfect sense to me. Will no longer wear a seat belt in my car, I’m now much safer!
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
It is extremely likely that you will be a much safer driver without a seat belt. Before the seatbelt law was passed in the UK, the government ordered a study, the Isles Report, into the effects in other countries which already had a law, but despite being ready before the vote in parliament, it was never published because it showed that although some front seat passengers would be saved, more cyclists and pedestrians would die.
@davidmunchin9865 2 жыл бұрын
In one sense it is true. However it's like the undoubtedly true theory that if you really wanted to make cars safer us, you'd put a large spike in the middle of the steering wheel.
@kevinshort3943 2 жыл бұрын
It only works in the short term. Studies have shown that people get used to the extra risk, and their behaviour slowly returns to the same as before the change in risk.
@rob-c. 2 жыл бұрын
@@kevinshort3943 do you have a link to the studies?
@gcn 2 жыл бұрын
This is a good analogy David! Whilst we don't agree with Ben's controversial views, we think this debate is really important and actually highlights the bigger issues of things like cycling infrastructure which have a big effect on rider safety. 👍
@kevinshort3943 2 жыл бұрын
@@rob-c. Unfortunately KZfaq will delete any link, but "google" about Sweden's switch to driving on the right and the accident stats.
@stevek8829 2 жыл бұрын
@@kevinshort3943 anything about Sweden's change to right side driving has no bearing on wearing helmets. It has no bearing on risk taking behavior either. It's bizzare to use such an unrelated event to support your "studies have shown claim." Except on KZfaq.
@krijnbuijt 2 жыл бұрын
Two years ago I was hospitalised with a stroke. During my 3 months rehabilitation I met a lot of patients there who had traumatic brain injuries after an bike accident. Most of them healthy sporty people. I will never ever step on a bike again without my helmet.
@TheAsianDavid 2 жыл бұрын
Genuinely wondering though, were they wearing helmets when the collision occurred? Sounds like these were some hard case scenarios where a helmet made minimal differences (still good protection). I think the point of the CEO bit is that helmets don't mitigate accidents. They just mitigate a certain level of injury.
@verityviolet 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheAsianDavid yes BRAIN injury. The kind you dont recover well from.
@TheAsianDavid 2 жыл бұрын
@@verityviolet I know what a TBI is. Reiterating they're brain injuries doesn't answer my question or address the discussion point.
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
You met lots of patients with TBI having had bike accidents? Given the extremely low incidence of cycling accidents that result in TBI it seems unlikely that there would be so many, and the majority of such patients are car occupants.
@ryanhall4745 2 жыл бұрын
its very simple...wear a helmet when you need one. some always need them, some only occasionally. if you don't know the difference, wear one, you are a child or overly fearful...and thats ok. but don't tell me when I should and shouldn't wear one. for me it simple. on a mountain bike I wear one when there are a lot of others around or the terrain merits it relative to my skill level...smooth, empty trails, no helmet. rocky fast downhill and people around, wear one. road bike...climbing on a not very busy road, no helmet. group ride, helmet. descending, helmet. simple. what blows my mind is people will tell me to wear one on a street with no cars, but they will go inline skating or to roller rink on short wheel base footwear with rolling round things and not wear a helmet. I was a pro inline speed skater and almost always wear a helmet skating. it just depends on your level of fear, intelligence and skill level. everyone should be able to decide for themselves.
@z-6785 2 жыл бұрын
Like many people I've ridden bikes for over 30 years, putting 10k-12k a year, with only 3 accidents. Two of them exemplify why helmets should be worn, but at the end of the day should be a personal preference. First example, adventured into a gnarly steep (-25%) descent on my gravel bike. Eventually lost control, crashed. Dislocated my shoulder, requiring surgery. Helmet intact. Second example, again on my gravel bike, but this time on a harmless smooth gravel road. Coming out of a corner, front tire slipped. Went immediately to the ground. The whip effect made my head hit the floor very hard. Needed several minutes to gain control over my body and be able to think what to do next. Helmet cracked. Didn't loose consciousness, and that's where the helmet play its part. I think helmets are for those situations you cannot control and are completely out of reach. Like in the 2nd example, everything seemed to be in control: smooth surface, low speed, but all of the sudden, it wasn't. So to this guys argument: who is 100% in control of every situation? If you live in Amsterdam, or few other cities across Europe, you don't need it, for regular commute, but that's because culture, infrastructure, and regulations are meant to make the streets safe for the cyclists. But, what about the other 99.99% of the cities?
@cegb551 2 жыл бұрын
I don’t wear a helmet, but I don’t think he should ban his staff from wearing them if they want to. Personal responsibility.
@onilovni1234 2 жыл бұрын
I don't know you and I respect your point of view but there is a saying about accidents on bikes: there are the ones who already crashed once, and there are the ones who will crash. The trick is that everybody is at least in the last category. So what do you want to have on your head when you inevitably have an accident in the future?
@mdbourne 2 жыл бұрын
While i personally am pro helmets, I appreciate you saw the bigger issue here. Most are arguing about helmet laws, which to me isn’t the point. He is taking away the personal choice of his employees, which is the way bigger issue.
@joshuarasmussen42 2 жыл бұрын
All I have to say, I hope that this CEO has really good insurance to cover his employees and himself. You wear a helmet to protect you from the things you can't control. ie poor or inattentive driver and animals. I will always wear a helmet, and I smart about the roads I pick and when I ride to lessen my risk on the road.
@tommylobotommy 2 жыл бұрын
This policy will end with the first serious accident, probably together with his business.
@iambarks2814 2 жыл бұрын
Why don’t you wear a helmet driving your car or walking around then, people get injuries in these situations?
@tommylobotommy 2 жыл бұрын
@@iambarks2814 why don't you think before asking such idiotic questions?
@noseudian 2 жыл бұрын
@@tommylobotommy it is not an idiotic question at all. pedestrians and motorists suffer from head injuries just the same, despite airbags. Still nobody talks about car helmets, which would arguably be more convenient since you can leave it in the car instead of having to take it with you wherever you go. Do motorists lifes not count, why do we accept such high numbers of head injuries in one mode of transport and not in the other?
@tommylobotommy 2 жыл бұрын
@@noseudian football and rugby players suffer more frequently, maybe they should wear it first? What about sleep? Multiple head injuries happen when people sleepwalk or fall from bed. Should I continue this nonsense?
@TheGreenhillsCyclist 2 жыл бұрын
Haven't heard a single valid arguement regarding not wearing a cycle helmet. I'm a commuter cyclist enjoying being a cyclist in life part 2. I was a commuter cyclist some years ago & yes, I wore a helmet back then too. I was cycling home from work, lined myself up to take a right hand turn. Next thing I knew, I was falling backwards & did some back somersaults before gravity slam-dunked me into the tarmac. I later realised, I was rear-ended by a driver who was on his mobile at the time. Was taken to my local A&E were the head surgeon, neurologists I think they're called. Looked at my helmet in a mix of 3 bits & dust looked at me on a gurney with my head locked in place with the EMT's head gear fully awake and talking away. I suffered a slip disc in T6-T7 which still gives me grief today. He told me that if I wasn't wearing a cycle helmet at best I would have been anything from brain-damaged to coma at worst dead. I returned to cycling in February 2020 before all COVID hell broke lose on the world. First thing I picked up off the shop floor in the bike shop:- a bicycle helmet. I rather keep my cerebellum inside my skull & not scattered all over the tarmac thank you very much.
@yanniskoulouridis1805 2 жыл бұрын
An association found in observational data does not mean causality. The paradoxical association between helmet use and accidents can be explained by the Ecological Fallacy, a statistical bias when trying to interpret population data and make inferences on individuals. It is easy to implement a helmet law but difficult to build adequate infrastructure. When helmet laws are present, usually there is increased, but still inadequate, cycling infrastructure. This infrastructure, will usually incentivize cyclists to be in closer proximity to motor vehicles and high density pedestrian areas. It is easier to paint a bike lane at the side of the street rather than build a new bike path that is not connected with traffic. This infrastructure, though inadequate, will still motivate more people to cycle which are also likely to be less experienced. More bike lanes painted at the side of the streets sandwiched between parked cars and unaware crossing pedestrians, more bikes using them, less experienced cyclists... the highest the likelihood for accidents to happen. The actual reason of the accidents is the false security that inadequate infrastructure gives to cyclists.
@richardmeyer5518 2 жыл бұрын
I have a history with concussions. I prefer a helmet but it’s up to the individual.
@benjaminknowles1270 2 жыл бұрын
Yes....you're not riding a bike with a total gross weight of 500kg and quite a lot of potential to cause harm to others, though :)
@MashO356 2 жыл бұрын
It also depends on the journey, if I’m popping to the shops
@peterhardie4151 2 жыл бұрын
Helmets aren't good at preventing concussions.
@midknight2K 2 жыл бұрын
@@peterhardie4151 the newer lids with MIPS are
@peterhardie4151 2 жыл бұрын
@@midknight2K they might be better but good would be an overstatement. Cyclists primary danger (85% of fatalities) are cars. You aren't going to find make a cycle helmet that protects you from a vehicle. Very few people survive a hit with a 40mph vehicle. This is why we need a different approach. More cyclists on the road is our best strategy.
@AnabolicBobBarker 2 жыл бұрын
I had 1 wreck that seperated my right shoulder AC joint about a year ago. The first thought as my head smacked the pavement was I sure am glad I had my helmet on. I will never road ride without one
@andyamos8594 2 жыл бұрын
I remember the same thing as my head slid along the road with everything else above it. The left shoulder was back dislocated, the helmet semi desintergrated but the brain 100% fine!
@tonyk8368 2 жыл бұрын
I crashed last winter wearing a full face helmet that I was using to protect my face from the cold. Worked super well against the road too. Had the same thought as yourself while it was happening.
@gcn 2 жыл бұрын
Oof sounds nasty Pat! Incidents like this are why we always advocate wearing helmets on GCN! We do think the debate is important though as it helps raise other issues like culture and infrastructure!
@liamkaloy 2 жыл бұрын
Had exactly the same feeling while flying, just before hitting the ground - almost like a relief - I have the helmet. Even if I would not survive this at least my last thought would be not - gosh I am so stupid I did not wear a helmet.
@tomekkruk6147 2 жыл бұрын
Risk per mile rises with helmet usage, because generally in countries where helmet usage is high, cycling is way more popular, means more cyclist on roads, means more accidents. Holland is an exception, as in Holland people generally don't use helmets, but they have the best cycling infrastructure in the world, and pretty much everyone there is cycling on a daily basis. Banning helmets in London is just plain stupid. By all means, i'm not a fascist, who want's to force everyone to wear them, but banning them is out of the question!
@peterhardie4151 2 жыл бұрын
Some important points. 1. In Holland you are 20x more likely to be hospitalised if you are wearing a helmet. 2. 85% of cyclists are killed by motor vehicles. Helmets offer very little protection against a car. 3. Helmets are good at preventing minor cuts and scrapes and not good at protecting serious head injuries. The question is not are helmets effective as a safety device, it is why are they so ineffective. You can look at the data from places that have gone from very few people wearing helmets to 100% wearing helmets. NZ, pro cycling are 2 places where this is the case.
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
A good attempt to inject some real facts into the debate, but as I know from experience, facts don't change the minds of people determined to believe the lies told by helmet promoters.
@AstroLaVista 2 жыл бұрын
Take my helmet away and I'll most likely stop riding as I just don't trust other people on the road. Anyone who has had a car drive into them will probably understand this.
@OriginNowSound 2 жыл бұрын
Anyone else noticed that when you ride with a helmet cars drive closser to you and dont respect you. Take the hlemt away and cars become more scared to hurt you so they finaly behave a bit better? just saying that is my experiance.
@OriginNowSound 2 жыл бұрын
Notice how cars dont respect you your space when wearing a helmet. Take the helmet off and car drivers are more scared that they will cause damage to hou and they finaly fix up and drive respectfully
@JenfWomf 2 жыл бұрын
I can’t believe you’ve wasted your time giving this person the time of day. My eyes have rolled so back in my head I’ve banged my head. Thankfully I was wearing a helmet
@bettyjones8363 2 жыл бұрын
Totally agree with you
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
What is it about having facts plainly stated that made your eyes roll back? Helmets don't save lives, demonstrated by all the reliable, long term, large scale studies.
@MrBongo1111 2 жыл бұрын
I had to fast forward through his argument on helmets . It was so unbelievably narrow minded taking statistics and extrapolating a conclusion for rare and uncontrollable circumstances that lead to head injury . The randomness of accidents do not account for statistical calculations . The numbers of people who are saved from serious head injury , me being one of them on four occasions ,racing and non racing , are not what is reported in those statistics . The idea that the helmet causes the risk may be true in certain sports like American football , weaponizing the helmet, boxing , allowing more punches to the head, and other similar sports can be argued . Cycling is not one of them .
@RubenFRS 2 жыл бұрын
Team no helmet for me. I still own one, but don't think people need helmets the vast majority of the time. With that said, I don't care if people wear it or not, it's everyone's own responsibility to act in the manner they feel they should to keep themselves as safe as they feel they should.
@nigelmcclean4166 2 жыл бұрын
I'm sure a helmet saved my life a month ago...bless you Smith Portal. He's mistaking correlation and causation
@Dhungerf60 2 жыл бұрын
Right on, Nigel. I picked up on the same thing.
@gcn 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for replying Nigel. Yes, correlation vs causation is a good point to raise here. But we do think sharing Ben's controversial views will aid the wider conversation around safety!
@nigelmcclean4166 2 жыл бұрын
@@gcn absolutely...thats why we're here!
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
"He's mistaking correlation and causation." How? All the reliable, long term, large scale studies show no reduction in risk with helmet wearing.
@nigelmcclean4166 2 жыл бұрын
@@richardburton1909 if i m wrong..im wrong. but can you show me a study that says wearing helmets causes accidents
@DrSomhairle 2 жыл бұрын
Wearing a helmet doesn’t mean taking more risks, and countries like the Netherlands where most people don’t wear one have much better infrastructure than the uk, so more miles ridden doesn’t necessarily equate to the same reduced risk as they don’t share the roads with cars!
@OriginNowSound 2 жыл бұрын
With all those tram lines you cant just bomb it around you need to ride safer lol
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
But it does equate with Australia and New Zealand, where the helmet laws didn't reduce the risks to cyclists, they increased them.
@IamBlueDragon_ 2 жыл бұрын
@@richardburton1909 yes they do in my case where a car hit me from behind and my helmet was in pieces. Obviously you never been hit by a car or involved in a crash. Please don’t speak on behalf of the Australian people, you don’t represent them.
@TomTravelling 2 жыл бұрын
Beyond head protection: 1)Helmet is a great place for reflective/fluorescent tape, lights, cameras. 2) Wear it while shopping - show that cyclists are everywhere 3) Better place to mount a rearview mirror than glasses or handlebars. Also, if injuries are correlated with helmet use, than maybe people wear helmets because of the danger, rather than vice-versa! MANY more people get head injuries inside cars and walking. Should helmets be compulsory there? That said, it should be for each person to choose, not a law. We also need more protection vs concussion as well as fractures.
@belperflyer7419 2 жыл бұрын
I didn't wear a helmet for many years simply because no-one did - including racing. However, back in 1990 (I was 50) I got knocked off by an uninsured driver, wrecking my bike and knocking me unconscious. So I bought a helmet for my 13 mile each way commute. I even rode a 400km Audax afterwards, helmetless, because it wasn't city riding. However, on my way to work 3 weeks later, a cat ran full tilt across the road and I had to make a very quick decision - avoid or be prepared to ride over it. As there were cars behind I opted to keep going. I went over the handlebars, smashing my new helmet to bits and ended up in the middle of the road paralysed. Very frightening. I gradually recovered some movement but I'm still quite restricted and I can still ride. My other sport was dinghy racing and I had to give that up because I lost the ability to balance as well as loss of upper body strength. It certainly changed my life. Ironically, the driver behind was a guy I often rode with who was in his car that morning for some reason, so would have given me room to swerve! So the question remains. Would I have suffered the same spinal shock without the helmet or would I have been killed? Who knows? Certainly it prompted most club mates to buy helmets and established the club's 'Flat Cat' award for the crash of the year :)
@soumafan 2 жыл бұрын
I remember a researcher a few years back that reported drivers gave wider berth to unhelmeted cyclists, therefore riding without a helmet makes you less likely to be involved in an accident with a car. He also tried wearing women's cycling togs & a long wig and reported that women were also given wider berth, though there is the possibility that he was actually measuring the fact that drivers were merely avoiding transvestites.
@naufalap 2 жыл бұрын
I think someone else tried using empty baby stroller, it worked wonders
@tylerbruce5731 2 жыл бұрын
Yes it was a UK study by a professor. The problem is it is one guy in the study population. Its a good study in terms of shedding light on cycling issues. Not so much for policy. The argument is wearing a helmet makes you unsafer based on other behaviour. At a societal policy level it would be better to address the unsafe behaviour.
@idiotidiot5821 2 жыл бұрын
Ive been hit by 6 cars. No helmet everytime. I wasnt asked about wearing anything after any of them. Ironically my worst neck injury came from helmet snagging on something that would have just brushed my hair and almost sliced my jugular wide open
@idiotidiot5821 2 жыл бұрын
People actually aimed at me in 3 of those incidents. Maybe people just like crossing the middle line to run over skateboarders. I guess I cant blame them too much
@ToolTimeTabor 2 жыл бұрын
No disrespect to that researcher, but based upon what you describe, his control measures to ensure valid data collection were...lacking.
@joeylopezphd 2 жыл бұрын
Having had a concussion with no helmet and breaking a helmet on a fall but no concussion and being able to just get up, I wear a helmet. But hey I live in Texas where they do not even require helmets for motorcycles…
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
Helmets don't prevent concussion.
@joeylopezphd 2 жыл бұрын
@@richardburton1909 hahaha, you are funny.
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
@@joeylopezphd If you think stating facts is funny, you have a very peculiar sense of humour. Maybe you ought to do some research about helmets, rather than just stating your own misinformed opinions.
@joeylopezphd 2 жыл бұрын
@@richardburton1909 you might wanna think about how a helmet saved my life and why I have my opinion and freedom to decide for myself to wear a helmet if I want to. I am not saying anyone else needs to.
@basholtzer4311 2 жыл бұрын
In these discussions the Netherlands are mentioned often. But there’s is one big thing where we differ (I think) from most other countries: our law. We have a law that states that whenever a car collides with a pedestrian or a bike, it is ALWAYS the cars fault. This law, which is basically a revised version of a very old law from the early 1900s where cars were new, scary and dangerous, was the topic of a large publicity campaign some 20 years ago. In our country, car drivers think twice when they encounter bicycles because they know they will be blamed for an accident.
@cardiaccyclist7477 2 жыл бұрын
#Captioncompetition: "Okay Kelland it's time to give it full gas.....NO NOT YET!!
@richcrompton6891 2 жыл бұрын
I hardly ever wear a helmet when I ride through Watopia, but always when I’m in the real world! It’s saved my bonce countless times!
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
If your helmet has saved you countless times, you might benefit from training.
@richcrompton6891 2 жыл бұрын
@@richardburton1909 most of the crashes weren’t really anything training could help with. Hit and run incident, black ice on a corner, compacted and wet clay soil on a corner after farm traffic. I live in a rural area and on the lanes I choose to ride, these incidents are sometimes unavoidable. My handling skills have kept me upright far more times than I’ve hit the deck in my 50 years of cycling. But thanks for your suggestion. Maybe I could benefit from learning how to keep my bike upright on icy roads or learn how to avoid hit and run drivers…
@26realmc 2 жыл бұрын
A helmet saved me from serious side head impact on metal tram tracks twice! Why is this even a debate?
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
Because all the reliable data shows that they don't reduce risk, but the people with opinions, and nothing but opinions, think that their opinions are better than facts.
@26realmc 2 жыл бұрын
@@richardburton1909 😂😂😂
@rjdverbeek 2 жыл бұрын
There is another factor that needs to be taken into account when looking at helmet usage. More people will cycle more often when there is no helmet obligation. This has also a significant health advantage.
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
And the safety improvement caused by the safety in numbers effect. More cyclists = safer cycling.
@davidsmith3285 2 жыл бұрын
My wife crashed a few years ago, hit a pothole at 24mph (according to garmin data)which she didn’t see because she was looking for oncoming traffic on a country lane,and used her head/face to stop in 3 seconds. Concussion for a few months, brain haemorrhage, whiplash and a few nights in hospital. They told her in hospital she was wearing a helmet, she asked how they new and there response was “because your still alive”. She wasn’t going to wear a helmet, she didn’t see the point, she would never fall off etc, but I convinced her that its only a helmet nobody cares what you look like.
@02foolofatook 2 жыл бұрын
To be fair, you never need a helmet - until you suddenly do.
@LukaszMielczarek 2 жыл бұрын
and will be too late
@toozydude2 2 жыл бұрын
Wait so according to his logic, lets assume that in the US, the helmet wearing rate is higher than in the Netherlands or Copenhagen (because its quite alot safer there with cycling infrastructure). So according to this, we should ban helmets because they are obviously making people fat. And look at China, barely anyone wears a helmet and they arent that fat at all ;)
@kidShibuya 2 жыл бұрын
Omg you are a genius. I am sure they have never even heard of correlation or causation. Maybe you should consult for companies, they obviously have no one qualified to your level.
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
"So according to this, we should ban helmets because they are obviously making people fat." You might think you were being sarcastic, but it's true. Regular cyclists live longer, suffer less from all forms of illness, including obesity, and here in the UK, NICE (National Institute for Clinical Excellence) pointed out that the best way for the government to reduce obesity was to hit its cycling targets. The only proven effect of helmet promotion and laws is to deter people from cycling, so they lose the overwhelming health benefits, get fat and sick and are a gigantic burden on health systems.
@babbleboyquito 2 жыл бұрын
That guy is mistaking causation for correlation. Such a basic thing. And he’s probably comparing data from cities like Amsterdam which is a very bike-centric city. By that score alone, you can’t compare data because it’s like comparing apples to oranges.
@donaldendres2173 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if his INSURANCE carrier even knows about his ban on helmet by his employees while working on the bike.
@danalbert5785 2 жыл бұрын
As a cyclist in his mid 70's, I started cycling before helmets, I have crashed two helmets in 60 years of riding. Neither crash was when I was taking any risk whatsoever! I am alive because I wore a helmet. Even with the helmet, I sustained a concussion [twice although 20 years apart]! I am alive and still riding! What?
@djkenny1202 2 жыл бұрын
But likely in a place like the USA, where we lack basic civilized infrastructure. I too wear one. I wish I lived in a country with safe cycling facilities.
@andre9307 2 жыл бұрын
@@djkenny1202 not everyone can live in the Netherlands
@djkenny1202 2 жыл бұрын
@@andre9307 I know. I want to.
@dannymcilreavy9470 2 жыл бұрын
I've seen three crash's in groups I've been in, two where helmets got cracked when people's head hit the road, no one even hurt a little, would have been different without the helmet I'd imagine.
@cwmoo 2 жыл бұрын
I personally know one person that died from a head injury while not wearing a helmet, and another that has long lasting memory and mood issues due to brain swelling after a crash without a helmet. I'm going to keep wearing mine, thanks.
@largepimping 2 жыл бұрын
But they'd have avoided the crash altogether if they weren't wearing a helmet!!!! [THIS IS SARCASM, THE GUY THAT OWNS THAT COMPANY IS AN IDIOT]
@BerenddeBoer 2 жыл бұрын
Fully agree with Benjamin. I didn't wear a helmet when I had an ordinary bike, for some of the reasons he mentioned and one he didn't: cars are more scared of bikers without helmet as they look much more vulnerable, so they stay further away. I'm wearing a helmet since I bought a speed pedelec, as my speeds are now so much higher.
@dombaker6210 2 жыл бұрын
Like everything it should be your own choice. I tried wearing helmets years ago and I found my situational awareness dropped massively. They restricted my ability to rotate my head fully to look behind me as I constantly do, and more importantly the shrouding round my ears meant I couldn’t hear a massive amount of traffic coming up behind me and I was constantly startled by cars coming past that I wasn’t expecting. When I took the helmet off again my senses opened up and I realised how much I lost when wearing a helmet. Without one I can hear a car coming in the far distance. Remember not everybody lives in towns duelling it out with busses and trucks. I am sure if you get hit then wearing a helmet may be better than not but it’s a bit like the town 30mph speed limit. If you stare at your speedo trying to keep just below 30mph for fear of getting a speeding ticket whilst keeping some practical forward progress, then you may save the child’s life when you hit them. However if you travel at around 30mph and don’t really care about the actual precise speed which may well be more than 30mph, but you instead stare out of the windscreen looking for the danger then you won’t hit the child in the first place. That is just my helmet experience and everybody’s will be different.
@Kuriketto 2 жыл бұрын
This guy's inferring a correlation between helmet wearing rates and accident rates without regard for how cycling-friendly the infrastructure is in those areas. The Netherlands has a low rate of helmet-wearing but they have arguably the best cycling-friendly streets and infrastructure in the world. I'm not sure metropolitan areas in the UK are at that level, but the US certainly isn't. His rationale for risk compensation and management being responsible for higher accident rates while riding with a helmet is also total nonsense. As if riding more carefully while not wearing a helmet could somehow compensate for reckless driving behavior or force drivers to be more considerate around cyclists. And by his logic condoms shouldn't be a necessary part of birth control. Just learn your partner's menstrual cycle and practice pulling out at the appropriate time. Genius.
@moisesrosario9716 2 жыл бұрын
basically "correlation doesn't mean causation". good analogy
@timp2751 2 жыл бұрын
Riding carefully can compensate massively for idiot drivers. Defensive driving/riding is a major part of advanced courses in such matters including pedalme's own rider training. Collisions can be both not the cyclists fault but also something that could have been avoided. Basic workplace health and safety that avoiding the accident entirely is far better than having one and hoping ppe make it better.
@Kuriketto 2 жыл бұрын
@@timp2751 You can have both. Construction sites are heavily regulated and controlled environments but workers are still required to wear hardhats while on-site, at least in first world countries. Cycling isn't really much different, even given ideal circumstances. Banning PPE outright is a shortsighted policy, period.
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
@@Kuriketto Except that cycle helmets aren't PPE.
@Kuriketto 2 жыл бұрын
@@richardburton1909 Except they are, at least in Europe. Not even sure what your point is here. PPE simply means personal protective equipment, which a bike helmet most certainly is. In Europe, bike helmets are also legally classified as Category 2 PPE after undergoing certification.
@colinb8327 2 жыл бұрын
So how will he compensate his workers the first time one of his workers gets a serious preventable head injury. The biggest cause of risk to cyclists is loose nuts behind a wheel, here is a prime example of another loose nut.
@poursuivant1 2 жыл бұрын
He probably made his employees sign a contract absolving the company of any liability in case of an accident as a condition of employment.
@kitbradley2689 2 жыл бұрын
My favorite thing about this so-called discussion is how everyone becomes epidemologists and statisticians, absolutely certain that their unscientific read of science data and complex statistics has more validity than, I dunno, the Mayo Clinic's read of the same data. But, sure, this guy running a bike cargo company knows more than the British Medical Association. He has a better read on the data than every major medical association in the world. Sure. I buy that.
@onilovni1234 2 жыл бұрын
Here is a reality check about helmets: this Tuesday at my job I had to read a coroner report concerning a 25 year old cyclist who succumbed to his head injuries after a crash with a car. Turns out it was an accident and nobody will be charged with anything but the cyclist most likely died because he was not wearing a helmet. Sure he would have been in a critical condition if he had had a helmet but his bare skull hit a windshield at 45 km/h... So my point of view on that subject is that I respect somebody's stupid decision not to wear a helmet while cycling but I will tell them to go fu** themselves if they tell me I should not wear one for whatever reasons they come up with. It's the stupidest idea I have ever heard concerning cycling and GCN you should not put this up for debate if you care about your reputation just a bit.
@mattschm5486 2 жыл бұрын
I honestly don’t think normal people ride more or less careful with or without a helmet. They’ll always go a speed they feel they can control. Also the worst accident I’ve had so far were caused by the other driver and I didn’t have any chance to do anything about it
@onilovni1234 2 жыл бұрын
@@mattschm5486 True! And most crashed I had were very painful enough just because of the road rashes, cuts and bruzes let alone the damages on my bikes. So nobody wants to crash, period! And a helmet won't make you less cautious about it.
@joelp2419 2 жыл бұрын
Two months ago, I was hit by a car while I was riding on... a bike path !!! Was it something I could have prevented from happening ? I don't think so ! Did my helmet save my life ? Oh yes !! Given the concussion I got, and the inner ears issues deriving from the collision I have been experiencing for two months, there is no doubt that not wearing a helmet that day would have been the end of my life. You can do risk management for things under your control, but a car driver looking at his phone rather than you ? you better wear a helmet.
@andTutin 2 жыл бұрын
you got luck you didnt brake your spine or something. i knew few cyclists, they died from back injuries, helmet didnt help
@bettyjones8363 2 жыл бұрын
I agree. Even if it saves one life, that one life is important. That guy was quoting that the numbers were low. It doesn't matter how low the data is, even if it saves one life, that one life is important
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
@@bettyjones8363 Pedestrians have the same death rate per mile travelled as cyclists, so should they wear a helmet? Many more car occupants die from head injuries than do cyclists, so should they wear a helmet? If it saves just one life........ Or does that snappy little phrase only apply to cyclists?
@ChristianAlkjr 2 жыл бұрын
Long time ago, I heard about a study, which concluded that motorists on average, kept a larger distance to cyclists without helmets, than to those with helmets. I think that none competitive cycling is so safe, that even if helmets will increase overall safety, there's still no need for them. Personally I only use a helmet when I'm on my racebike exercising. Everyday cycling is done without. My kids can choose themselves if they want to use a helmet. Even on the racebike, every fourth week is done at very low intensity without helmet. Normal cycling is a very very very safe thing to do.
@elementric1 2 жыл бұрын
Exactly this. The whole conversation around helmet wearing and the thousands of people who wrongly think that a helmet 'saved their life' just because it was damaged really harm the perception of cycling safety. Compared to so many other things we do without a second thought, cycling is extremely safe.
@cardiaccyclist7477 2 жыл бұрын
Banning helmets!? Nothing like a bit of controversy to drum up some publicity, or am I just too cynical?
@Maximilian178 2 жыл бұрын
As someone who also drives motorbike I can tell you, I wouldn't ride without a helmet even if it was not mandatory...it is the thing you don't see coming that will get you down and the only thing between you and the road is the little bit of stuff you are wearing for your personal protection.
@georgedawson235 2 жыл бұрын
All the best to Ben, I think his employees should be aloud the choice to wear a helmet or not, whether the risk taking argument is backed by fact or not that will not stop a car knocking me off and my skull hitting the pavement. Either way pedal me sounds like a nice step in the right direction!
@joules531 2 жыл бұрын
I give helmeted cyclists plenty of room, when I come up behind them in my car, but I give cyclists without helmets even more room, because I instinctively perceive them as more vulnerable.
@benjaminknowles1270 2 жыл бұрын
And you're not alone! Professor Walker found the same thing in his study.
@monkmchorning 2 жыл бұрын
Case in point for my thesis. Drivers give more leeway when they see more vulnerability. Or maybe we just look friendlier without them.
@joules531 2 жыл бұрын
@@monkmchorning - the friendly part could be a "thing", but I certainly think the perception of vulnerability certainly plays a big part in driver behaviour. As an example, I have two bike trailers. Drivers definitely give my child trailer more passing room than my utility trailer.
@meibing4912 2 жыл бұрын
There are studies that confirm this behavior in general.
@paulwickward6703 2 жыл бұрын
A better way to get more space from drivers (if you're just commuting and not worried about speed) is to put a child's seat on the back of your bike
@slowiss 2 жыл бұрын
Bike helmet saved my life, car from side jcn wiped me out, landed on my head 20feet down the road. Like seatbelts in cars, helmets protect when needed. Road safety needs rules and education.
@bulletprufrodo 2 жыл бұрын
I want to echo a comment (now buried below, since I had to sign in) tha t it would be awesome for GCN to have on an expert in cycling safety who could address the research. I would appreciate a better understanding of both sides of this debate.
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
Any expert in cycling safety would merely echo what Ben said, since everything he said is demonstrably proven, but most other people prefer their opinions based on forty years of helmet propaganda.
@thor4164 Жыл бұрын
Most studies are just plain stupid. Whatever happened to people using the thing that sits underneath the helmet? Have we all lost the ability to think for ourselves? Comparing a flat country to hilly countries such as the UK or the US is moronic. There's just too many variables to list when comparing countries. But maybe helmets give some people a false sense of security, and in which case - these people are probably best not wearing one, and instead, ride more cautiously
@benlampe5020 2 жыл бұрын
Once during a road climb my left calf cramped while I was going 5 mph. I couldn’t pedal or unclip because of the cramp. I fell sideways onto the road and my shoulder and helmet took the major impact. Obviously the helmet made me over confident and I wouldn’t have crashed according to Ben.
@patrickbateman7444 2 жыл бұрын
Well if you fall off your bike, just by going up a climb...you better wear a helmet.
@OriginNowSound 2 жыл бұрын
U might have rolled and absorbed the fall instead of freezing in a split second and allow yourself to break the fall with your head... Sorry you experienced this though. Sounds scary.. We always said speed is your friend lol riding slow is dangerous! Maybe clips should be banned?
@mattwilksphotographyvideo3867 2 жыл бұрын
I had some nut job on that point in a debate. His version of the world was based on a Dutch study that couldn’t possibly be wrong and some big data which excludes the literally huge number of unreported head impacts saved by helmets. Like the three I have experienced personally. I didn’t report them so they don’t exist. I feel sorry as you said for the poor bugger who through no fault of his own ends up with a traumatic brain injury. Muppets with faux science equals someone getting hurt.
@dukehong7491 2 жыл бұрын
Back in the early 80's when helmets were rare, 1 of the 3 of us wore a helmet. Yeah I was a kid and reckless but I've also gone over the handlebars at 40+ mph. Our helmet wearing friend, when he crashed, he went head first into a trash can and had a concussion. Did the helmet save him? Sure. Would he have done more to avoid a head injury had he not been wearing a helmet? Maybe. My brother, who crashed with him, was not wearing a helmet and did not hurt his head. Some ppl think helmets are perfect and don't even bother trying to avoid head-on collisions (see football players).
@smiddysmidton8313 2 жыл бұрын
You sound like the sort of person that should wear a helmet walking tbh
@horsepower7045 2 жыл бұрын
I have been cycling for 50 years without a helmet. I have never fallen on my head once.
@jdssurf 2 жыл бұрын
Until you do. Hope you don’t.
@dewiz9596 2 жыл бұрын
In preventing head injuries, what you start out with inside your skull is much more important than what you strap on the outside of it. Yes, I wore helmets while racing, ot while out on mountain bike trails. On the road? Never. While in touring Nova Scotia a few years ago, I was wearing a helmet for a bit since they were mandatory. I removed it because the motorists were doing their own “risk analysis” because I was wearing a helmet. I’m 77, and was a lifelong commuter before I retired. I rode that road in Ireland in 2007. . . without a helmet
@duaneding6653 2 жыл бұрын
He thought he had the data, but he read it wrong. It is literally the first lesson you learn in any statistics course that you should distinguish ‘correlation’ from ‘cause’. It is true that in statistical number, the higher rate the cyclists wear a helmet, the higher rate the accidents there are. However it is not the helmets that are causing the accidents. It is because countries friendly to cycling tends to make better infrastructures and/or laws to ensure the safety of cyclists, based on which these countries tends not to obligate to wear a helmet, which makes cyclists not so often wear helmet. Or simply, you can’t assume the dangerousness of cycling without a helmet in London based on that in Amsterdam. And not wearing a helmet in London definitely won’t make it another Amsterdam!!
@pretzelhunt 2 жыл бұрын
it works the other way as well; that's why he's trying it. "Other things reduce the chance of collisions" etc.
@Rose_Butterfly98 2 жыл бұрын
I would not ride different without a helmet. I've always ridden the way I ride before I ever got a helmet. My club made it compulsory so I just ended up wearing one. Then they made it a law that you have to wear one while on the road. I think there's another effect, after they added these laws a lot of people felt that cycling is safer now and a lot of new people started cycling which has made it more dangerous. Some of them just pull u-turns on shared paths without looking. Others ride in 3s and hog the whole path, which means the rest of us have to pass on the edge of the path. Helmets to me definitely make it safer and I'd continue doing it even if the laws were lifted.
@yomin2162 2 жыл бұрын
I don't think he's talking about club riders. As a commuter who's ridden 10000~15000km per year for over 8 years, Ben's got a point: not taking risks is safer than wearing PPE while taking risks. Club riders zip past me with their ridiculous 10 grand aero race bikes all the time, I don't give a crap.
@OriginNowSound 2 жыл бұрын
Cars definitly dont drive around you safer when wearing a helmet. They think it gives em the right to be up your rear end and overtake really close and just in general be pushy. Not wearing a helmet makes the drivers think
@Rose_Butterfly98 2 жыл бұрын
@@yomin2162 not that kind of club. School club lol, one of the main purposes was to encourage safe riding. Which is a little hypocritical of me, since outside of club rides I am definitely not safe. Maybe still safe on the roads since there are pretty simple rules, keep to the left and stop at red lights is about all you need to do. But on shared paths and pavements I'm not all that safe. It just doesn't seem like I'm taking risks when I've been riding the same way for the last 15 years. Granted I kinda learnt to ride that way because I used to race other people all the time on these paths but it really doesn't seem risky, my clubmates felt weaving in and out between people and bicycles was risky but I've done it for more than 10 years it's just the way you have to ride of you don't want to get stuck below 20kph. Regular commuters I know do it too.
@Rose_Butterfly98 2 жыл бұрын
@@OriginNowSound illegal to be on road without helmet here. But what did you want to say at the end? I think KZfaq cut your comment off.
@OriginNowSound 2 жыл бұрын
@@Rose_Butterfly98 it might have cut my comment off but it still reads fine. IT MAKES DRIVER THINK. LOL. i have noticd drivers think more about being respectful of you and not want to cause any harm. If they hit you withought a helmet they think they could kill you. But when you are wearing one they tbi k you are safe if they hit you. Atleest in my experience when im not wearing a helmet they dont drive so close behind me or give me more room in general. When wearing one they overtake really close and cut back infront and all sorts of there mad non conciderate driving. At least thats how it seems to me here in uk
@blackricw6495 2 жыл бұрын
When I first started cycling, I didnt actually have a helmet and was on the main road on my 20 quid pro bike from Gumtree. I was going at turtle pace on the small gear due to a broken front derailleur that would cost more than the bike to fix. Here, many motorists on the road would pass me much slower or more cautious with plenty of space I should say as I may not look experienced at all. After a while, I had an upgrade to a road bike along with a nice helmet. On the same road, I use to commute 6 times a week, motorists pass me much quicker and closer but that might just be a thing in my head. Despite this, I still would stick on a helmet since it just feels that much nicer on my head than my hair flying all over the place haha.
@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391 2 жыл бұрын
They give women more space as well, and recumbents are given LOADS of space.
@CrusherUK2013 2 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see the data that Ben is referring to. The figures can be misinterpreted if all the data isn't there. When I was younger (mid-30's I think), I was going around a large roundabout and got hit by a van entering the roundabout. I hit my head on the ground (no cycle helmet) and had to go to hospital to get checked out (it was a slight bang, no concussion). Last year I got off my bike, caught my leg on the saddle as I swung it over, landed on my side on the tarmac driveway. My head hit the garage door, no injury because of the helmet. My left hip was broken and had to go to hospital to get my hip replaced. Is he saying that I wouldn't have damaged my hip if I wasn't wearing a helmet?
@TVadicto100 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, let’s also ban airbags in cars, abs and seat belts because you know, they’re dangerous and encourage reckless driving. 😂
@SonjaTheDork 2 жыл бұрын
There is a point with actual driver assists reducing their concentration on the road. Lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control.. The car can handle itself, why should the driver have to pay attention? Of course it's gonna affect it, but straightforward safety equipment that doesn't assist a rider/driver (with the exception of ABS and such) should always be incorporated, or at least allowed
@gcn 2 жыл бұрын
This is quite a good analogy Hernan and certainly pokes a hole in Ben's reasoning!
@richardburton1909 2 жыл бұрын
@@gcn No. Before the British government brought in the seat belt law, it commissioned a study into what had happened in other countries which already had such a law; it was never published even though it was completed before the vote on seat belts because it showed that, overall deaths would rise. Some drivers and front seat passengers would not die, but more cyclists and pedestrians would die because the drivers drove less carefully because they wore a seat belt. It seems inevitable that the same would apply to any other devices that made drivers feel safer. So no, it isn't a good analogy and it supports Ben's reasoning, it doesn't poke a hole in it.
@jamesplegg 2 жыл бұрын
Not wearing a seat belt will make me drive more slowly. So, of course, let's not wear seat belts. Not. This sort of misrepresentation of data, applied to bike helmets, is hugely dangerous, should be called out, and the company should be stopped from operating until proper and universally acknowledged safety measures are put in place. Disappointing to see GCN supporting this misrepresentation of data and provide some sort of support for this thinking. If people presented pseudo-scientific data to suggest that seat belts increased the risk of serious injury when driving, should they be given the time of day. NO, they should not!
@rob-c. 2 жыл бұрын
Helmets are not legally required. On what grounds are you ceasing the operating of this business beyond your personal opinion on helmets?
@GHWMR 2 жыл бұрын
Here in the Netherlands most people on road bikes or mountain bikes do wear a helmet but those on city bikes do not. This makes sense as on a city bike you are travelling slower and because of the upright position you are less likely to crash and when you do, you are less likely to hit your head. People on city bikes here do not consider themselves 'cyclists', they do not dress up in lycra, they dress for the destination which does not include a helmet. This is similar to driving a car; in a racing car you would wear a helmet and a fireproof suit, in a regular car you would not, even though it would save some lives. On the other hand, while wearing a helmet on a city bike may reduce injuries, it would also greatly reduce the number of people cycling in The Netherlands with the negative impact on general health associated with that. Finally, I have also lived in the UK and the US and I did wear a helmet there regardless of the type of bike I was on as the likelihood of accidents there is much much higher because of poor city planning, poor infrastructure and other incompetent/aggressive/unaware road users.
@TheRealRoof 2 жыл бұрын
When i started riding again last year, I could not be bothered to wear a helmet. Until i watch the first day's of the tour the france 2021. Now i never ride without. And in holland it is not compulsory
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