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"So what changed" ? A 7-footer with a unibrow

You can't just use the rings argument, but you can't just dismiss it either. Have to look at the entire body of work and it includes chips, stats, accolades, eye test, dominance at their peak. When comparing the GOAT have to look at every single thing they have going and against them. But winning is a huge part because you play to win the game, you don't just play just to play it.

didn't people say the same thing after he won his third title?

The title of the video makes it seem like lebron won his 6th or 7th ring

You gotta give the Lakers their props but you can't ignore Steph, Klay, KD, & Kyrie were all out due to injury & this is a Covid season where the lack of home court advantage played a massive factor. If Steph & Klay weren't injured the Western Conference Finals would've been GSWs vs Lakers/Clippers. If KD & Kyrie weren't injured the Eastern Conference Finals would've been Nets vs Heat. Also if this wasn't a Covid season with no home court advantage no way in hell do the Nuggets come back down 1-3 in two separate playoff series.

This also seems flawed. Kevin Durant to GSW? They were already winning championships and going to the finals. So many other factors to consider: Training, coaching, competition, player health, team chemistry. This is a very surface level analysis. I get your point but the examples and logic seems rather limited in conveying the reasoning.

My problem with the whole argument is people want to pick and choose when it’s a team sport. For example, people always give Bron all of the credit for him making it to the finals, speaking on his dominance and how he “carries teams”. However, whenever he loses the Finals, all of a sudden it’s a team sport so you can’t blame him for it. I feel like if you give a player credit for making it to the finals, you have to give them the majority of the blame when they lose on the big stage. Also, rings are what players play for, so to say they shouldn’t be used is flawed imo. If you don’t use the most important thing in a player’s career, how do you rank players? I don’t think using just stats and personal accolades can fully portray a player’s career.

No one person can dominate something designed for a team.

Here is the flaw in your argument: No one is saying "Lebron became good only after joining Miami" They are saying Lebron conquored his demons, whatever they may be that allowed him realize his full potential in 2012. He completely shrank in the moment in 2011 which is why its often said that DWade pushed and subsequently taught Lebron how to win and BE the guy. Also rings do matter. They are important but they arent the end all be all. Neither are FMVPS, because neither tell a complete story of how good a player is, how good their competition is and the level of help they had. This is something that HAS to be on a case by case basis. And here is a good example. In the 2002 Finals, Kobe didnt win FMVP even though his numbers in the middle of the dead-ball era vs a top defensive team was as good if not better than Lebron's finals numbers in 2013 and this is comparing a shooting guard who plays iso to a small forward who drives. Does that mean Kobe simply wasnt good enough? No, context is needed. Also FMVP ignore that in reality, Wilt would have 2 and Bill Russell would have like 7 or 8.

I 99% of the time agree with your videos but this one? This ain't it chief.

Rings aren't everything but you can't just dismiss them

We should definitely use championships to rate players. The issue is people who use that as the only determine factor.

Having another top 5 player on the team helps win a title as well.

Weak argument. Think about it. If the ring argument should not be used, then why did Lebron needed to win it? Why did he claim that he's the greatest only after winning the ring in Cleveland? Consistently appearing in the playoffs only prove that he is consistent (hehe),; Great, but NOT the Greatest.

Wow all these Jordan fans so butthurt after seeing "Lebron" and "rings" in the same sentence. Not once did he even compare Lebron and Jordan in this video. Not everything has to be "MJ vs Lebron".

Also to be fair, adding AD is like MJ saying the Bulls were a Horace Grant away and the Bulls filling it in with Shaq.

if someone can convince me that every player on a team contributes equally to a championship i might take the idea seriously. If thats the case then the 2018-2019 cavs should be considered one of the most disappointing teams in nba history since they lost 1 player from the finals team the season before and then went 19-63. Notice how stupid that sounds? Championships can't be the only measurement of greatness. But when you're comparing all time great players, they will carry weight. I'm willing to bet in everyone's top ten list are ten players who all won championships, at least two each. Can anyone sit there with a straight face and say those championships had NOTHING to do with their placement? at all?

This championship that lebron won was by far the easiest in his entire career ever. The Miami Heat were just too small for the lakers. I just hate people that just disregard Anthony Davies as if he wasn’t the biggest reason why lebron even got there. The reason why lebron didn’t even make the playoffs last year wasn’t because he didn’t have a team it was because he needs superstars to win. I mean, if you are the BEST player to EVER touch the ball you should have the ability to lead your team to the finals and win no matter the roaster.

Also there is a reason the finals had such horrible ratings and don't blame it on covid cause the last dance came out during covid and did huge numbers.

The real NBA GOAT is Basketball Examined. Glad you're back, man!

After 10 finals and only win 4 after jumping from team to team to team to team most overrated player ever

Jimmy Butler and Udonis Haslem took Lebron and AD to 6 games. Goat my ass

So they play 82 games to do what exactly? Win a spot at home with the rest of us while someone else takes the gold? The ultimate goal for every nba player is a piece of gold fam. That’s it. If that’s THEIR end all be all goal to win AS A TEAM, I don’t see the problem with judging according to what THEIR goal is. Idk any player that says “ I’m just trying make it through this season so I can focus on the next 82 games.” Great video just don’t agree with that one statement fam.

I respectfully disagree.

Last time I checked didn’t Lebron play on the Most Stacked teams In the East from ‘10-17 and Still Underperform bc He still Lost In 11,15,17, 18 U can’t erase Losses

I respectfully disagree with you in this video. No doubt Lebron is an all time great but when you compare elite players you have to look at winning and losing. Yes basketball is a team game and you need other great players but at the end you need a player to close it out. There’s a reason Lebron has always won FMVP he’s been the main reason his team gets to and wins the finals. Excluding the 07 And 2018 Cavs where he had to carry a bunch of YMCA players through the playoffs Lebron has always had help going into the finals. Dwade & bosh heat Kyrie & Love Cavs and this year with AD. So making the finals argument is fair when you look a superstar player having a championship level team and they don’t win the championship

Did he?

Had this one locked and loaded

Davis brought the change. From missing the playoffs to championship. LeBron is a genius in forming superteams.

Lebron Armstrong proved that leaving a staked team to an even more staked team has destroyed the nba along with his work politics. Didn’t watch one game of the finals.

Appraising a players body of work should be done via multi-variate analysis - all aspects should be weighed and considered. Championships are just one facet

You always coming with the bangers💯

How much of this championship run was won by endless complaining to the refs?

Bron learned to win in Miami because before that, he had a tendency to disappear during crucial games, especially in the fourth quarter. During the 2012 Finals, he finally managed to get over that. He didn't shrink in the clutch and made key plays down the stretch. So yes, he learned to win in Miami.

HE STILL 4/6 IN THE FINAL'S WITH A LOSER RECORD AND HE HAVE ALL THE LEAGUE BEST PLAYER'S ON HIS TEAM

IT TOOK LEBRON 17YRS TO WIN 4 RINGS THAT AINT GOAT stuff's

People come here, dont watch the video or watch it and ignore the actual points he's making and just decide to hate. Cool

How long you had this video cooking for?

First, i love your videos. 2nd, but this video is flawed. The Heat should've never lost to the Mavs or Spurs, that's what's damaging to Lebron's legacy. And then you add all the other finals losses.

Jordan has more than just rings. Compare the accolades 🔥

I love how LeBron stans will bend reality in whatever direction they need to to facilitate the GOAT debate, down to saying that traditional metrics of greatness need to be thrown out if they don't support LeBron's narrative, but Steph Curry isn't one of the top 5 PGs in league history because he never won a Finals MVP.

LeBron put an end to the ring argument by chasing rings lol LeBron himself said “I want my damn respect”. But yeah, it’s about teams.

The one thing that has hurt Lebron is his playstyle because of how ball dominant he is if he played in more of a team system like the spurs I think he would have more rings

Cheapest ring in nba history. Didn't meet any great teams. The Rockets are aan AAU team who live and die by three with a SF as their center. The Lakers would've been a WCF team without LeBron regadless.

Great Video! Basketball Examined, keep making basketball logical great videos! Awesome Job!

100% - Ask yourself if you'd view LeBron as a lesser player than you do now if AD didn't join the lakers this year.

Rings is not an argument. Its the GOAL. The ONLY GOAL. Stats is what you get while trying to get rings. Players sacrifice stats for wins. Players tell you after every game that the most important thing is the WIN. Players have great stats and leave their teams to WIN. People that argue against rings use Bill Russsll as a copp out without doing any comparison AT ALL. Lets see... Bill Russell play in a league of 8 to 15 teams and played 25 rounds of playoffs to win 11 rings while Jordan played 24 rounds to get 6 rings. Then they wanna use the Robert Horry argument as if theybdont know a star from a role player. SMH...

You act like the media hasn't praised Lebron

The ring argument is used as a finisher of sorts. If players are comparable through stats and individual accolades alone but one can't be discerned as greater then rings and championship success has to be brought into the discussion. It can tip the scales one way especially if both have many appearances but one is more successful.

can't be a winner with no rings, i answer yes to all of your questions

Your are hands down the best NBA KZfaqr.

How he ended the ring argument when he still is 4-6 ? Still got a loser record.

So 4 is equal to 6 now?

LOL You can barely count this year considering the circumstances. Lebron has always needed a superteam to win, and still lost more times than won. If we gonna use the rings argument, then you can't forget how many Finals he lost in.

I shake my head at the narrative that every time that Lebron passes to a team mate at the end of a game and that player misses the shot, the media says that Lebron doesn't have Jordan's killer instinct. Meanwhile Jordan didn't start winning titles until he had Paxson and Steve Kerr to hit clutch shots at the end of games when he passed to them. Jordan got 3 rings off of Paxson and Kerr jump shots. What makes Lebron great is that he can pass better than Jordan and is just as unstoppable of a scorer as Jordan. The media praises him when he passes for 47 minutes. The media shames him when he passes in the last minute like it's his fault that a team mate misses a wide open jump shot. Let's not forget the giant elephant in the room that everyone tries to just pretend didn't happen. Michael Jordan quit. He flat out quit on the game for almost 2 seasons.

People called MJ "The GOAT" when he had 3 rings and went to play baseball. Same amount as Larry Bird, 2 fewer than Magic Johnson. It was engraved on the statue outside of The United Center when they opened the place. So ring count can't be the end all.

This dude doesnt kno shit about basketball !!!!!

LeBron fans steady always moving the goalposts lol

Beautiful. I would like to apologized to you, Sir. For a very long time, I thought you were a LeBron hater, but you proved me wrong. Respect!

If the argument is close, championships should be used. Also you have to look at performance in the finals

Hey man I'm curious, how many subscribers do you have? Love your videos

Your video is completely fault too - what being a defensive player of the year or any other individual accomplishment have to do with winning? Theoretically, defensive player of the year could come from a team that have 0-82 record, just like any other holder of individual award!!

AD LEAD THAT TEAM U SPEAKING FALSE FACT'S

MJ expanded the nba’s popularity more so than any other basketball player. Lebron is carrying the nba down the toilet. But, sure focus on the ring argument. At the end of the day people are losing interest in Lebron and the nba because his story was not even close to being as impactful and impressive as the 90s bulls. Can’t wait for Lebron’s documentary where they blame his teammates for the six losses and credit only him when they win.

What is the music in the background called?

Month 7 waiting for Chronicles of Judah144 to upload.

LeBron James said himself that he learn to win from Wade in Miami. Not the “main stream media“. If anything it’s the media that pumps him up artificially.

Basketball examined, has never said a positive thing about Jordan

if the ring argument is flawed since that depends on teams, there's also no reason to rank players in any circumstance

The real story for me this year was the Miami Heat run. They were underdogs throughout and even took the heavily favored Lakers to 6 games. Butler’s stock really rose this year along with their other players. The social justice narrative and drama along with the liberal sports media shoving the Lebron 🎭 storyline down our throats all year was a turnoff for many fans.

Rings should only matter if the player was the best or second best player on the team. This means they won fmvp or someone like Curry, Kobe, AD

Did this man said Kobe let the SAME lakers to nba finals?

20 Millon people watch NBA Finals. The fact that the public disregarded the Bubble Finals en masse is not an accident. This was summer league and not NBA 🏀 Unless they're now going forward are going to stop every season in early March and take 4 months off before restarting a shortened season. Then have teams play without enough court time, no access to loved ones. No travel, no fans. Unless that happens, this post season is an outlier and has no relevance to an established championship History. I mean someone had to win this debacle that it was. But this is not even worthy of a Spurs asterisk where everyone was on level ground and had similar challenges. I believe History will look at this summer league playoffs as an exception without merit/classical standing. The game has been hurt sorely by its politicking that now creates an uncertain future. $ilver and LeBron has just about put the robust game handed down to them by Stern, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, SHAQ and Kobe on life support. The NBA has no easy pathway forward. And, with a COVID CUP Champ as unpopular as LeBron James, I see severe struggles ahead. This a one-off not worthy of official NBA championship status. I mean there were no road games or home games. Not sure what it was but I'm glad those politricKing hacks are off the court. Basketball minus the extras por favor! Good luck NBA, you're gonna need it. This should be start of the new season. Not the end of summer league. Numbers never lie. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there, does it make a sound? If a Finals happens that the general public didn't care for--is it a championship??? Definitely not a "World Championship". They never even traveled outside of Disney World.

This also applies to role players. Teams every year overpay role players due to them being on a championship team. When Kyle Kuzma becomes a free agent, his salary will be much higher than it should be due to him winning a championship. He sucked the whole playoffs but he'll be classified as a "winning player" even though he should be considered an inconsistent role player who doesn't excel in any area.

Good video. Basketball is a team sport. Nothing but facts 💯

Jordan never gets a superstar, he made a superstar and always made playoffs.

Maybe total rings can’t be used, but rings to finals appearances can. If you have a roster that can make it to the finals then it is a championship roster. So wouldn’t it fall upon the leader of said roster to secure a victory once your team is good enough.

He didn’t end a damn thing. He was the third best player on the Lakers in this Finals. Got carried by AD, Rondo, KCP, the refs and Adam Silver. Half of his chips have came in a lockout/pandemic. Can’t respect that. Also, Jordan only added a few pieces to his roster during his second three-peat and it was basically guys from the Bad Boy Pistons to help the Bulls get better defensively. LeBron been re-doing entire rosters since Miami days by bringing in a few former franchise players to help him. THAT’S the difference

Lebron puts an end to the ring argument by......winning a ring?

this has got to be the most underwhelming championship run I've seen in recent memory. Blazers, Rockets, Nuggets, Heat.

How convenient, let’s get rid of any argument that makes LeBron’s goat argument any weaker.🙄

The people don't respect the BUM and this Mickey Mouse bubble ring

Rings should be used as a factor, a great player must have an impact to their team to some extent, but it should not be THE factor. Those that are saying the conversion is over solely because lebron lost in the finals before is just flat out ignorant.

What about the six L's in the Finals? What about how bad LeBron played in the 2011 Finals?

Lowest rated finals in NBA history!?!?!?!

This Championship got asterisk written all over it lol 😆 this was a weak finals run highjacked by social justice movements smh this was pick up basketball definitely not finals basketball so long story short and a short story shorter this don't change nothing LeBron just got a Disney Mickey Mouse bubble ring its not impressive and the ppl not buying it lol 😆

I don’t agree with you at all, but the video was still good.

JORDAN WON RINGS 6/7 YRS WHEN HE PLAYED WITH THE BULL'S THAT'S GREAT 💩

I would have to make 20 minute video to explain everything wrong in this video.....but to keep it brief the overarching issue is conformation bias. Also since we throwing out rings (as a "team" accomplishment), along with this channel (among others) exposing all "individual" awards (as full of politics/rigged) all we got left is raw talent evaluations.....and that's not where ya'll really wanna take it.

idk that you posted a video on 2020 man all the old heads will not be happy with this video lmao,

Hold up, a pro lebron video by basketball explained

that lebron "learned how to win in miami" was the dumbest shit ever lol. All the man needed was a great team like most other stars had that won chips. Lebrons flameout in 2011, then winning in 2012, and wade already winning one in 2006 made simple minded people think Wade taught him how to win or that he learned somethin from Wade that put them over the hump lol. the man led a average team to the finals at 21 years of age.

6/6 > 4/10

6 > 4

What I don’t understand is LeBron get compared to Jordan. I personally never looked at him like Jordan because I thought he played more like Magic. I thought Kobe played like Michael and LeBron played like Magic that comparison to me made more sense.

So it’s not about the rings it’s just about playing baskball n lucky to play with championship ready team?

I always believed winning championships was part of the criteria in GOAT status because the better you are the better your chances are of winning. Not the only metric but at least I believed rings should hold some weight. But you may have swayed my opinion. Only question is, if rings shouldn’t be an argument in determining the best all time. What should the criteria be when we compare players against each other?

How?

The nba isn't about developing talent and team loyalty. Now super stars go where they think they can contend for a ring. Who picked miami to be in the finals this year? Nobody did and that's amazing. Lakers were a stacked team with 2 super stars. Heat 2 piece away. They need an answer to AD.