Thank you yet again for this battle

Awesome as always.

BazBattles Excellent battle baz 👍

BazBattles btw, IMHO you found an untapped goldmine with your narrator, he's one of the best video narrator in KZfaq for me, you should've expanded this collaboration. Expand the scope of this channel or cover other topics and create a new channel or something. A great narrator voice with good scripts are major attraction for a KZfaq channel IMO.

Another quality video, out of curiosity may I ask on what programme do you produce your videos?

more scibes than soldiers in this 1 i guess

conan263 watch Shaun’s video about the fall of the Roman Empire. Mass immigration wasn’t what killed Rome. In fact immigration helped Rome in many cases. Had the visigoths and Alan’s not migrated into Gaul than the western Roman Empire would not have been able to stop Atilla. And mass immigration is what created the states of modern England (saxons and angles) France (franks) Italy (Lombards) and the United States (various) if you live in any of these states you probably only exist thanks to mass immigration.

We have to thanks Ammianus Marcellinus for this account

Remember that if people flee their countries it's not because they woke up a morning with this idea, it's because they have serious problems like wars,famines... all caused by the therrible policy of western nations; then when you let migrants pass your borders but then you let them starve it's to be expected that they are going to revolt

I don't think this is even possible in modern western countries... And dude not cool!

Omg!

Funnily enough the Goths were probably mostly blond

🤣🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂😂

@@starfox300 they were blonde and redhead

@@berig_gutisk he knows, he just makes jokes mentionning modern "goths" lmao

Never fight the Goths, (something something "land war in Asia" or .. black clothing and poetry,) join with the Goths to fight the Hun!

They came from what is now Sweden.

THis is what happens when your empire becomes weak. You let the horde come in.

They had a chicken :)

I understood that reference.

JEEEENNNNNKIIIIINNSSSSSSSS

Valentinian: god damn it Valens… gaaahhhd damn it

I agree totally the infantry would always be the backbone of Roman armies even into the early Middle Ages with basil the seconds campaigning in mountainous Bulgaria.

Only Historians would fill the Turkish mountains with cavalry haha. Even Panzers regularly fell out of formation due to speed variability. If Europe wasn’t in a warming period, the Hun’s horses wouldn’t have gotten past Ukraine. Horses without food are about as useful as Tanks without fuel.

Except Western Roman Empire did not even participate in the battle.

Filip Batora The repercussions though.

The western empire would have fallen regardless

History Time after you finish with the middle ages you should talk again about the obscure parts of Antiquity

I'd say this was a ripple, Frigidus river was most likely what really put the final nail in the coffin.

The Romans + Goths beat the Huns at Battle of the Catalaunian Plains.

Finally someone that gets it.

Steven Mackintosh, it was the Visigoths and the Romans who defeated the Huns at Chalons in 451. The Roman general didn’t want to have to ask the barbarian kings for help. These Visigoths Defeated the Romans in 378 and after Theodosius I they sacked Rome in 410 and were given land in Aquitaine

To be fair, it sounds like they just didn’t have the resources to deal with so many refugees.

This era of history is called the "migratory period" of European history. These migrations were largely driven by a famine and colder weather pushing refugees South looking for food. Problem was there wasn't enough food to feed everyone anywhere on the continent. The Goths were given a choice. Either sit around and slowly stave or fight to the death. They choose to fight. After this battle the famines actually got worse and the Visigoths ended up migrating all the way to Spain and North Africa of course after sacking Rome along the way.

And the reason I think these tribes were there in the first place is because I think the more powerful huns chased them into roman territory or just wanted some land... I think

IMHO, Adrianople was the turning point of no return. The Empire was already in a downward slide for a century or two leading up to this point (Hyper inflation, loss of trade, civil wars, over taxation of the peasant farmers, loss of discipline of the army), but Adrianople was the point when the Army proved to be finally incapable of dealing with the border threats. And, as you summarized, this lead to the final slide into total collapse.

@@TEverettReynolds The Eastern Empire continued for a thousand years after Adrianople.

It's lead, not leaded, you illiterate barbarian.

@@CritKhan its leadeded, actually.

nah he burned.

nah he was a bitch and is likely still running

@@fitnesspoint2006 he likely committed seppuku. Most generals did after a humiliating loss like this one, rather than live with the shame.

@@signoguns8501 i don't think the romans called it seppuku but I see your point

@@apassionatenerd.3564 They probably definitely called it seppuku, tbf

slapnut1207 That makes sense. Good point.

Looks like he made the wrong choice in not waiting for his nephews army to show up. This should be an episode of the Terrible Blunders in military history.

@@Wallyworld30 I don't think VAlens was ever going to win.

Actually he probably would have. Caesar was a highly aggressive general and was never one to take the defensive. Remember that at Alesia he came to the very brink of total destruction because of his inability to defeat Vercingetorix before his allies arrived.

would have probably cut off supply lines and reinforcements before trying to engage them. i noticed it was the first thing he did in every battle.

At the battle of Thapsus Caesar's troops attacked without orders and started the battle

He would have built a wall around the Goths

@@EndOfSmallSanctuary97 First he built a wall....

They kind of did do that...

Nah, I'm just gonna let them in without any kind of check and let them destroy my country.

It was let them come in peacefully, or have them come in violently. When people are pushed to desperation, the fact your border starts at a river doesn't mean anything to them.

Varangian Guard you invaded the americas. what about that?

Too soon...😁

LMAOOOOO

@@manguy1259 holy shit wuuut.

why old times? To me it's still one of the best games ever made

@@terawatt1 It most surely is, I still consider it the best Total War game I have ever played. I said old times, because I used to play it when I was a youngster - and I have great memories with this game from that time

I wish i could play the total war series :( Im tempted to buy a pc just for those games lol

@@signoguns8501 In my opinion that could very well be worth it - Total War games are great and diverse coupled with mods for them - and the fact that there is so many of them anyone will find some which are to their liking

If the Romans hadn't lost this battle, then the Alans wouldn't have been in the western roman empire to save them from the Huns. In the long game, Rome actually got a lot more then is lost from this battle.

Yes, and then they went to the western part...Did you ever hear about the sack of Rome? Who is the stupid now?

Everything would've been fine if they hadn't mistreated the Goths, it was their own damn fault.

They couldve probably avoided this situation if they didnt try to quick fix the problem... twice.

Damn Goths? Please, the romans lost it by themselves. Especially the cavaly. Not only did they charge in like idiots without orders, they could not even give a deceisive blow. Then they got outflanked. Instead of forming up, analysing the situation and waiting for the enemy to make a mistake, like romans usually do

Except one was an organized migrant issue that was trying multiple times to settle peacefully into a nation and try to use the protection of the empire and their own forces to defend themselves from the encroaching Huns who forced them out of their original homes, while at the same time being mistreated by Roman forces unduly and aggressively because they do not care about the lives of the Goths, and the other is a bunch of random immigrants who have no need to come into Europe because they wish to take advantage of economic systems because they destroyed their home country with internal dissent, yes explain to me how the Goths are the same as the Muslims.

It was over a thousand years ago, calm your tits

Slightly untrue. I believe the Romans intentionally underfed them. At least I remember a different video describing it as such. Romans often dug their own graves with sheer arrogants.

El Psy yeah let's underfed dozens of thousands that outnumber us and still have their weapons.... Romans are not stupid like that.

And like I said, this is not a simple migrant issue, this is a literal nation on the march trying to settle new lands to try to survive. And yes I did watch the video, and I would like you to explain how the Romans could have resolved that scenario. They did not have the troops to stop them, but they still poked, prodded and generally malpractice the Goths who were a different tribe that simply wanted to settle in Bulgaria. Also, stop conflating modern immigration to the Romans, there were numerous issues that led to the migrant crisis of the end of the Roman empire, but numerous instances of Roman mistreatment of native tribes which led to mass unrest.

Haha nice

good luck convincing them to move across hundreds of kilometers with no food to a desert where theres even less food.

that wasnt a deser back then, also. Food could be provided if you really need those tribes as buffer

They'd still probably wouldn't WANT to live there.

That was kind of the idea. Valens allowed them through because he wanted to use the Goths as volunteers in his armies and as paesants working his lands, it was common practice.

edgy

ROMA AETERNA!

There is nothing crigier than an edgelord throwing latin phrases at the of their sentences to appear smarter.

Imperialx I have some bad news about your Roman Empire... hash-tag: breaking news (#teamLarsPorsena)

Reckless Roges What do you mean? Last time I checked Rome was unconquered.

@Ibrahim The US and Israel*

That was the general idea when Valens gave then permission to cross, though the direct distribution of land to barbarian chiefs in exchange for military service was not yet common practice. What would have happened, and happened for centuries before this incident, is that the families would be given to land owners to settle as colones, while volunteers would have been sent to individual army units across the Empire. The both the East and West in the Roman Empire were permanently hungry for both farmers and soldiers. At times emperors would have led expeditions across the borders to capture slaves and recruits for the army. The poin of Adrianopolis is that the corruption of the Roman military machine, coupled with the unexpected number of this particular "band", halted this system. But all the people here saying "That's why the Empire fell" think themselves so smart because they drew the dullest possible parallel between what happenened then and today's migrations forget that the East recovered and came to an equilibrium with Gothic tribes, while the West, who didn't suffer this defeat, fell, and not because of the goths

Diplomacy is no substitute for strength--it depends on military strength for success.

@@francescofontana9707 very wise

You'd be surprised how true that actually is.

Don't we wish

Fag Master it was actually a pretty anticlimactic just a bunch of dreadboughts nailing each other causing minimal damage

I wouldn't say like the biggest naval battle in history is that anticlimactic, and bigger ships did sink. Like the German Pre Dreadnought SMS Pommern. Anyway Baz did a vid on the Bismarck which is way less eventfull then this so

Well yeah, I know. But if they can do the Bismarck, then obviously they can do this, I mean how many ships got sunk in the Bismarck vid? Like 2 or 3. So the argument that its "anti climactic" isn't an excuse not to do it

Gotta point ^^

There is a really good video on the battle of Jutland in the very same sort of style as this one.

"F*** my Daughter" "You didn't F*** my daughter" "You disrespected our family" CASUS BELLI

I dont really get how its familiar?

@@toddharig8142 He's saying it sounds like Mexicans invading US and demanding lodging and 5-star cuisine.

@@Kathayne636 I know that's what he is saying. Im just calling fake news.

Conservatism is a mental disorder.

brenthud2170 homophobia and not acnolaging women rights is mental disorder. Also since when is fair that documentless people can have free shelter, food and medical care. While people with documents need to pay for them?

brenthud2170 Well, you keep yelling the same sentence makes you a lunatic.

Refugees are only a negative if you don't do anything with them. That's no different then if they were natives or any other population, if you actively tried to get them employed they'd happily work. If you offered classes to help teach them the native language, they'd at least make an effort. The European countries suffering the most problems are also the ones that are most actively trying to stop them from from doing anything once they arrive.

Shity way of handling refugees.. Roman army made up of annexed states soldiers.... This is roman lifestyle and way of getting unlimited army personal Then they became conservative and lost...

Cael Kernil I don't know why I kept thinking of Merkel while watching this?😂😂 glad I am not the only one.

Cael Kernil Gothic, Alan, and Frankish Refugees saves Rome from being entirely destroyed. Battle of Catalaunian fields boi.

Cael Kernil isnt america built on refugees

Cael Kernil Only that we literally have contemporary roman chronists telling us that the Goths were daco-thracians. The only ones promoting the germanic origin of the goths are the germans themselves and prussian pseudo-historians. There is absolutely no evidence of germanic culture found anywhere near the Balkans or Crimea. "Were ravaging the countryside" (one of the most fertile regions in the Balkans and Europe as a whole) also "were starving", yeah pick one. The whole thing looks much more like a rebellion that the romans would try to twist in order to preserve whatever morale they had left. Funnily enough, seems to have a similar course with how the Bulgarians would uprise against the Byzantine Empire about 1000 years later.

EMH dude during massive wars going on in Europe people used to flee and come to America....like come on it's all there on google

Well When Brain4Breakfast was still alive.

red sheep blue sheep

food please!

btw if you have no idea what the hell we are on about the wololooo is a priest sound off age of empires and the red sheep blue sheep thing is a easter egg in minecraft related to the AOE priests

Glyn Humphrey It wasn't exactly possible.

Given that the situation with the Goths lasted for years, i'm sure they had thought of what you said but did not want to go with it.

The idea was to break them up and use them as soldiers in the wars in persia, like it was done with thousands of other gothic warriors. It worked like that for centuries, but this time the task proved too complex for a number of reasons, mostly corruption of the officers who were supposed to keep the refugees fed and sheltered. The idea to settle whole tribe within the borders to act as buffers was a later one (see Visigoths in Southern France) but it proved fatal in the long run because it fragmented power too much, and when you give people the choice between a barbarian king who will protect them and a distant Emperor who won't they tend to choose the former.

Proclivity to Destroy Leftists but all that was kind of galic and thratian land before Rome took it over. What do you mean?

The Danube was an wall of water. They just not had enough troops to hold them out

Conservatism is a mental disorder.

Varangian Guard I agree! We should believe more in our instinct, just like we did most of human history

"If you don't have a border, you don't have a country." Trump was right

Exactly. The goths, and many other tribes/peoples entering the Roman Empire struggled with surviving inside the empire's lands. We see this especially in Gallia, where an unreasonable amoung of immigrants had to settle down in simply infertile land, or at least in lands incapable of sustaning the people living on it. This spread dissatisfaction within the tribes. At the same time, Rome was struggling with its politics and administration - in many cases, the local administration failed to understand the situation of the settling people . I mean, these weren't armies that marched into the lands ,especailly after they had to hand over their weapons to the Romans, but whole tribes. Sustaining such a large population was more or less unfeasable for the relatively small lands they had to live in. This, plus the fact that the Romans went through a period of internal struggles prior to the migration period, fueld hostility on both sides. Many empires throughout the ages took in fast quantities of different people and cultures- sometimes they could handle it, sometimes they couldn't. The fact that the people fleeing into Roman territory were running from an approaching enemy didn't make things better. Drawing a connection to today, or other empires that let immigrant enter, is a rather bold decision, as the circumstances are vastly, and I don't thing one cannot stress the word vastly here enough, different. Even bolder when some seem take theirentire history education from KZfaq videos. Going back to this very specific example at Adrianopel, Lupicinus and especially Valens who was hundreds of miles away (and communication took time in the 4th century) were incapable of assess the situation. Moreover, Lupicinus completely failed to defuse the situation - I assume (I actually never managed to find sources that tried to explain Lupicinus' actions in detail) he thought Fritigern to be the inciter of the Goths, the one who made them feel hostile towards the Romans while the Romans themselves were partly, if not completely, responsible for this.

Bullshit. They didn't even have the ability to feed these people, let alone do it for free.

Fucking THANK you!

They were too late

Rubbish, Goths had been raiding Roman lands all the the time a century beforehand because they figured out the Romans could only pursue them so far, but 99 times out of 100 the Romans caught up with them and kicked the shit out of them. In fact Gallienus and Claudius wiped out an entire generation in one campaign, do you think the Goths would simply have let that slide?. Add to this the Arian schism, constant silver devaluation, and recovering from two plagues how the hell do you think the Romans would react? With open arms? If you ask me it's just dye in the wool naivety to think these Goths were ever going to settle peacefully or integrate even if the Romans wanted them to, not at that rate in that time and certainly not when they would find it more profitable to just rob the gaffe (which they did).

You have to wonder what was Gothic leader thinking. If he loses *one* battle, it's not just a military setback - his tribe ceases to exist in an instant. On the other hand, what other choices did he have? Dividing his forces? Uh, they're already weaker than Valens. Leaving non-combatants behind and on their own in a hostile territory, with a number of Roman cities around? Not good either. Still, this situation should've given some advantages to Valens as well. - Since Goths did not seem to have their own cavalry around, Romans had months to harass them - and even if Alans were present earlier, Roman cavalry neutralizes them to some extent. - With Gothic forces being tied down to protect the main camp Valens could've focused on killing off foraging parties and other roaming bands, ensuring local superiority in every case. Even if main Gothic force breaks camp and moves in to rescue one of endangered detachments, Romans can always gtfo, destroying other groups in the meantime. - Finally, can you imagine what happens, when Roman cavalry actually listens to orders and does some proper flanking, ending up inside camp? Even if they start looting and make o other contribution to the battle, you have half the Gothic warriors scrambling to rescue their families. Bye bye frontline. At this point I wonder if Valens even knew Gothic women and children were around. It's a massive morale boost for a defender, but also a massive disadvantage if properly exploited. Doesn't seem Valens tried, as his army deployed as if for an ordinary battle, instead.

This type of thinking is what caused Stalin to refuse to let civilians evacuate Stalingrad. Stalin said his men would fight harder if they knew they had to protect the woman and children. So woman and children were stuck in the most horrific battles of all time. Thousands of non combatants died as a result.

It's this special kind of win, where circa 200k civilians got deported to do slave labor for Germans instead of evacuating beforehand and ending up in a T-34 factory somewhere behind Ural.

Yep I would have sent the cavalry around the back of the hill in secret. Pillage the camp followers then rush the main line from behind, and have them rejoin the main army again. Problem solved. Then ignore that army and focus on shoring up the river border. Then retreat to walled cities to wait them out.

It's not like the Goths are just standing there letting the Romans control their population. They're literally standing a few meters right in front of their families. A cavalry strike there is suicide for the men and it'd give the Goths even more reason to fight to the death since they've little left to live for. Even if the main roman army engages, the Gothic force is still big enough to delay and deal a lot of damage. Putting them in an even worse position when the Alan horsemen arrive.

It's easy for you to say, with modern day communication and laws. But literally it takes just one impatient cavalryman to charge and set everything off. Good luck telling them to stop with flags and trumpets.

+nahte armystrong roman units of the late empire were anything but disciplined. most of the western troops consisted of barbarian mercenaries led by barbarian chieftains and of poor-quality auxiliaries. if these units had to fight the legions from the 1st centuries BC and AD, they would get utterly crushed every time because the legions had a much higher morale, discipline, leadership and training.

exactly he called them well discipline,well armored legionaries,even though the empire at this state in time didn't have the glorious powerful army from other eras in romes history

So let this be warning to make sure you don't drop them off in the country side and try to starve them to death.

You mean how the mistreatment of refugees causes more problems than it solves? Yeah, true.

Because the two sides didn't trust each other, and the Goths wanted to make sure they had a backup plan in case the deal fell though.

You fucktard. Conservatism is a mental disorder.

conan263 bro i dont know if you have selective hearing or not but at 5:25 he says the Roman govenor lacked the resources and manpower to "properly disarm" the Goths. It never said they refused. And tbh if i was a Goth i would never give my weapon, its like trying taking Guns away from an american 2nd Amendment believer.