Just got my Journeyman setup with GRX 46/30 and 11-40 XT cassette. Goes a bit slow, but really easy on steep (10%+) climbs!

My 1961 CX bike has a 46/30 crankset from that era. And a freewheel with a max of 30. 58 years later and we are back to reinventing sub compacts on gravel bikes.

I'm glad you're helping bring awareness to touring and riding bikes for the fun and adventure aspects instead of just for speed and competition.

Mountain 22/36 does just right when riding loaded. Touring is usually around 18-20 kmh

This is the most practical and informative gearing overview I've heard - nice job!

This is great Russ. Cannot say enough about low gearing. I run a triple as it's pretty much the only way to get a 17 inch gear and still have enough top end to bomb descents. Big climbs in the Cascades are my favorite and my power meter taught me to get over the aesthetics of granny gear pretty quick and I love spinning past gravel racers suffering under the heavy yoke of 1:1 gear ratios. Plus, in bad moments like a bonk climbing at mile 100 this weekend, I just threw it in granny and ate and drank and did recovery watts instead of burying myself deeper in the hole. Too bad the "industry" thinks everyone is Ted King.

Finally, an explanation on gearing that makes sense to me! Thank you SOOO much.

Retrogrouch 9 speed triples forever! (or at least until I can't get parts anymore). 46/36/24 with an 11-32 cassette for loaded touring. 50/40/30 with a 12-30 cassette for rando/sport touring. Ok, and a 1 X 9 for commuting simplicity.

Thanks for using my question on your Q&A Vlog & for getting my surname right. Most people don't. Your answer to my question was helpful. Keep up the good work.

I'm really enjoying all of your videos. I learn something new just about every video.

Love this channel. Lots of great info.

I'm glad I kept my 3X10 mountain bike. It's super versatile, going up 20% hills on the trails or road touring with large gears and being able to keep close to my best candace. The chain also lasts very long with little crossover. Also, the front gears need little maintenance since for every 20 times I change the back gears, I only changed the front once. Sometimes the original ideas are the best. Like my rear rack, with the arrival of bikepacking I never took the rear rack off, it is useful for large or small panniers, a backpack or just a wind breaker, so useful.

I love this video and am glad you were able to talk about your crank preferences more. I use a 50/34 and a 11-42 and have really enjoyed it for long days (7+ hours) off road. The shimano 2x mtb gears look like the perfect solution with a wolftooth cable pull adjuster. You could get a 10-46 cassette and a 50/34 and have a massive gear range and really crisp shifting.

I never understood the logic of getting rid of one small alloy chainring (like 30 or 28 or 26) in front and then replacing it with 3 or 4 huge (36+) cogs in the rear and ending up with a cassette that either weighs more than my entire TA crankset and/or costs more than my entire drive train and then have chains that last 2000KM and chainrings and cassettes that are dead after 6000Km... I know someone that left for a long touring trip with a shiny new 1x12, he was a bit shocked that chains lasted about two weeks and after 6 weeks his entire drive train was dead (32T chainring and 11-50 cassette) his drive train budget was bigger than his food budget... He stopped and changed the whole thing back to 3x9... with 3x8, 3x9 you can get chains that last 6,000Km and a drivetrain that lasts 20 or 30,000Km, but who cares most people get a new bike way before that anyways....

I need to start taking notes when watching your videos! Always learning. :-)

Loved the gearing explanation

I love the take a look mirrors.

Great explanation of the gears! Thanks

I owned that same mirror type for years. Love it. And you can bend it for custom fit.

Mountain double works well for me! I’m not fast but I like to be able to climb. Thanks for the great video Russ!

Love the nerding out about gearing. I've been tweaking the gearing on my 2 old bikes (1989 road bike and 1992ish hybrid/kid puller) and have been amazed at how much it has improved my experience. My road bike came 2x7 with 52/42 x 13-23. I barely ever used the 52 but often wanted a little more than the 42x13. I am now running 48/38 x 12-25 (8 speed) and it seems great. I'm sure if I lived somewhere less flat I'd want lower than 38x25 but it's working well and much better than 42x23 for a low gear! My hybrid I converted from 3x6 to 1x9 and after playing around with several chainrings I've settled on 42 x 11-34 and love it for the riding I do with it.

I have a 38/24 and 11-34 on my Clem Smith. Works great for mixed terrain for me.

Rad update! Thanks!

This was delightfully nerdy. The graph was awesome. Also, just got my Further patches. Can’t wait to spread them across Canada. Thanks Russ!

I am converting my 25yrs old mountain bike to an ebike. This vid really help with gearing, Thank you.

Russ, thanks for such a lot of work explaining about gears, very helpful. Last year I did the JOGLE in the UK with a fully loaded steel bike and my 210 lbs of supreme fitness, ha !!! (this went down to 196 lbs over the 12 days it took!), sorry, I digress- I started off with the usual 22/32/44T front rings and 11-34T rear cassette. I never used the 44T front ring , so I am off to ride in Wales in a few weeks time (National Cycle Route 8) and have taken off the 44T, not to save any weight or aesthetics etc, I just know I don't need it. I am back at 210 lbs due to lock down and all the nice Barbie weather we are having here !. I have been training- 3 rides a week, just turned 60 and upped my daily prayers for good luck on the next trip. Take care all out there, stay safe because if where you live is like here in the UK, all the nutters are back at work in their big vans and of course they are not one bit bothered about you or me on our bikes. Cheers. Mike (UK)

(Re)watched this trying to decide on a new drivetrain for a Salsa Vaya. Great way to think about it and focus my decision process, thanks Russ!!

Like the graphs. You are right...you and Henry Wildberry show that there is other types of cycling. GCN do's a good show for the racing side. But I would still use the brommie for touring around England. Thank you.

Good stuff as usual. Back in the day, I'd make a gear-inch calculator for each chain ring and rear sprocket combo, including the % gap between each shift. This helped me figure out my shifting pattern, i.e., when it made sense to adjust with just the rear derailleur vs. when it made sense to shift the chain ring and the rear derailleur to get the next (smaller) step. Big gaps between one gear in the next is annoying and not conducive to a consistent cadence. Likewise frequently having to shift the front and rear to keep the steps small.

I switched to a MTB 44/28 and 11/34 cassette and I love it.

got my patches and like # 6 shirt, thanks man.

thanks for so much info, Russ! I ride a beefed up 48/36 36t steel and carbon cyclocross with a high-degree stem slant to avoid numbness. Thinking of asking bike shop to add a 24 cogring to the front for that really nice low gearing you mentioned. Thanks for the "light bulb".

IMO the big problem is all the 11 tooth cassettes out there. With many 11-XX cassettes your first 2-4 gears are so big as to be useless to the average rider except on downhills. I really wish the industry would go back to offering 13 and 14 tooth end cogs for all us bikepackers and non-wannabe racers. I cobbled together a 14-36 10 speed cassette and it was great. Tightly spaced gears and I was able to use all my cogs. Sure, this meant I'd spin out on long descents but A) Going 30+mph on a gravel descent in the middle of nowhere when you're by yourself is perhaps not the smartest thing to do and B) If a downhill is long/steep enough to allow those speeds that probably means I just climbed up something equally long and steep and now want a break! It would be great to see someone offer a 14-46 cassette for touring. For example: 14, 16, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30, 34, 38, 42, 46. You have tight 2 tooth jumps at the top end, 3 tooth jumps in the middle and only 4 tooth jumps in the low climbing gears. Seems a lot nicer than the 6 or even 8 tooth gaps you see at the low end of some cassettes these days. The 6 tooth jump from the 36 to the 42 and the 8 tooth jump from the 42 to the 50 are the worse parts of my 11-50 1x drivetrain. I'd happily give up some top end speed for tighter spacing at the low end.

Great Slides on Gear Ranges!

Last year 32 11-42 worked great on my Big Honzo, did 6 overnighters on this setup. Rode up all the hills and fast enough with + tires on the flats. Wouldn't mind making it a 10-42. Picked up a Kona Rove LTD a couple months ago, it's a 40 10-42 and will be my more paved gravel bikepacker. Haven't bikepacked with it yet but I will be getting a 36 or 34 to switch out the 40 for loaded hilly trips. I am pretty darn happy with the 1X setup, especially in mostly trail situations on the Big Honzo. I could go either way for gravel/paved situations, 1X or 2X, mostly I liked the Rove LTD and it came with Force so why not give'r a try and I gotta say the Force group is pretty sweet, including the brakes, and mated with the Rove LTD frame it's a Hell of a good ride. Looking forward to a loaded overnighter on it. Also I'm not racing when I am backpacking so if I spin out my big gear on a downhill I coast and have yet to think, darn it I need to go faster on this downhill.

I have a SRAM Rival 1x 11-42t because we predominantly ride paved, occasionally gravel, rarely mountainous. We are flat here in Texas. But we love the comfort level of a gravel bike

Thank you for this it was very helpful this really re-enforces my decision to go with microshift's Sword groupset as 2x

Very interesting video and topic Russ. Thanks. Gravel riders often ride in different locations and off road trekking requires a range of gear setups depending on the terrain for each trip. It seems to me gravel bikes in particular would benefit from moving away from a "crankset" mentality and back to having a crank and the ability to bolt on whatever size chainrings the rider deemed optimum for the next trip. Manufacturers won't sell as many crank "sets" that way though.

OMG! I want that bottom combo on the graph!!

With the Bike Friday 451mm wheels, 50/34, 11-34 works great! Before I had a 50/39/30, 12-26 and I had to crank hard up hills, so the 50/34 11speed cassette actually gives me extra higher and lower gears.

Currently running GRX 46/30 and 11-36 in the back, for bikepacking bike. loving it. Would switch to a 39/26 for loaded touring.

I just built a Otso Warakin gravel bike and put on a 46/30 crankset with a 40 tooth cassette using RX-800 derailleur and it works amazing. It was a big difference coming from my endurance road bike with 50/34 + 32 tooth cassette.

48/32 and a 11/34 cassette works for me 99% of situations

Rei co-op adv 3:2, 650b x 50 . 10spd , 11x36, 28 &44 crank.. changed to shamano 9032, 22 32 40, x180mm crank. 5ft8.5 " 78 yrs old . Love it. Don't compete,with shorter cranks. Years past, spent 7 days and nights riding in rain ,in southern b.c.canada. had low grade prostrate infection & internal yeast infection. Was running 34 cassette & mountain taimer quad crank. 48 ,36 ,38 ,18. Learned my lesson !! I can coast down 👇 without any effort, going up , takes efficient effort. I haven't pushed ,yet. Saved my life!!! Taken routes, many would not dare. P.s. I live to climb, it's keeping me alive 😂💪!!!! Great program !! Don't be afraid to think & and try outside the box

I live in a fierce hilly area. I run 46-34t crankset and 11 speed 11-42t deore cassette on my flat handlebar urban bike. Never miss the 1x 40t setup (with the same cassette) I had before.

Chain ring on my fatbike for road and gravel that works awesome for me is 28/38 by 36/12 cassette! Perfect!!

love your videos, thank you for all your hard work. Would you ever consider a live stream Q and A?

Its cool you do this. Thanks. i have a triple on my road bike and love the creeper gear with 34 on the rear. Im looking for a new gravel bike and want to avoid the 50 as I rode Bmx freestyle for 30 years and my body is beat up...

That 38t / 11-50t option looks like the most attractive option for someone like me (mostly touring and commuting, occasionally through somewhat but not overly rough and hilly terrain).

I'm building a 2x9 wide range set up: 17.3 to 110 gear inches! 42/26T (the Rivendell Clipper AKA Sugino XD2) and Sunrace 11-40 9 speed. Starts with 18.8 gear inches to 110. I have a 24T chainring that I'll put on for touring: 17.3 gear inches! It took some research to find a derailleur but Microshift Advent (2x9 Long) is speced to do this (47T chainwrap). And I'm putting the Microshift Marvo triple front derailleur on with a Sunrace thumb shifter to help with the big jump.

Low gearing all the way 🙂 11-46, 30t chainring. Bike is a full sus 120mm 27.5 mtb setup for bikepacking (extra supple!).

as far as the chainrings, I have 3 setups I may switch between depending on the train what i will be lugging and who I will be riding with ( al using an 11-34 10 speed rear casstte). An 38/22 is my current loaded mountain gravel touring favorite, basically run it as a 1x with a granny back up. I like my 46/26 (on a 50.4 bcd cranks) as a daily commuter and light touring the 46 is the largest that I would care to go. My all time favorite is my triple 46/38/24, the 46/38 work similar to a half step set up (more like 1.5) and giving a good selection of cadence options. This is helpful when riding in a group and others may be setting the pace so having the extra ability to adjust my cadence vs speed comes in handy. I choose the 11-34 rear 10 speed cassette for the ability to dial in my cadence when riding.

I run 3*8, 26/36/44 (44 replaced a 48T ring) and 13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28. Cassette, chain and middle ring (which I used the most) cost pennies these day and it covers everything I need.

Great video, lots of real smarties in the comments as well. Super helpful. Still, switching to 24 -36 One speed - never spill another Manhattan.

I just went from a 50 big to 46/34 with 11 to 34 cassette so thrilled. The 50 was so overkill for where I live in PA very hilly!!!!! I dont care about going fast I care about going Fun.....50/34 came stock on a Cannondale Synapse I just picked up...

3x7 BIOPACE ALL DAY BABY

Better than the Take a Look is two of them, one on either side. Today I finished a tour of Portugal. On busy roads two mirrors give excellent coverage on what is going on behind me.

Regarding the rotating mass thing: I'd like to point out that it's not just about the mass but also about how far away the mass is from the axis of rotation. Saving mass on your hub while keeping everything else the same will not make your wheelset any snappier. It will just make your bike lighter overall which will of course still help a little while pedaling it up hill.

I rode Minneapolis to Duluth, around 300 miles round trip on a single speed cyclocross bike, loaded with rear panniers, tent, sleeping bag, mat, etc. I think I’ll go 1x on my next bike.

3years after this posted- I finally settled on a 2x11 36/24 chainrings and a 11-36 cassette.

Love my 24/34/46 and 26/36/48 9 Speed XTR cranks. Do Wish Shimano made the new GRX double with a 46/28. Pair that with an 11-40 and you'd have a hell of a set-up

Just built a carbon mt. bike "monstercross" bikepacker using 27.5 wheels. 36-26 with 10-42 cassette 11 speed gives 17-97 gear inches- that'll do!

Keeping it simple when loaded... just use a triple crank.... and will get the low range without the need to bother looking trendy with the one by or a two by with a giant freewheel......and being a total retro grouch.... I am still using my 1992 Deore Xt triple crank....and love it!

A really good topic - not discussed a lot because a lot of reviewers are afraid to hurt their sponsors. Many bike suppliers and manufacturers use 50-34 because there is a bigger market for bikes for commuting and roadies than gravel. So all these really great gravel frames like the trek checkpoint are actually marketed for commutes and riding on rougher roads. Go on gravel with these compact chainsets (50-34) and you'll be visiting a knee surgeon in the near future.

Update!!! just went from a 50 big to 46/34 with 11 to 34 cassette so thrilled. Actually now swapped out the 50/34 for a 46/32 with a 11/34 cassette. I feel this is way more appropriate for my road light gravel riding with many hills some very steep I do here in PA Land...For More Info...FSA Omega cranks with a 10 speed Tiagra GS long cage derailleur. So far no issues and I didnt even have to shorten the chain just tighten the B screw...Also the front derailleur is a Braze on...I hope this help someone because wondering if this all works is a pain to find out....

On my salsa journeyman I run a 46_30 chainring with 9 sod 11_40 cassette with 27.5 and a 9 spd 11_34 with 700c tires

In my young days I rode a 52/39 x 13-21 in the hills of central PA. My present day bike a Canyon Pathlite AL 6.0 has the new Deore XT group that includes a 36/26 X 10-45 cassette. That's realistic for a guy in his 60's riding in the mountainous terrain of Idaho. The high gears keep me going on the pavement and the 26/45 gear is good for the gravelly 12% grades. I looked at gravel bikes and most don't have a reasonable low gear. Mountain bikes with 1x drivetrains don't have a reasonable high gear.

Yay!!! Shimano's new GRX 400 is stock with a 46/30 chainset!!! And they are making it compatible with both road and MTB cassettes! AND!!!!! they have hydraulic auxiliary levers!

Still not tempted by 1x but getting close. Most important point is to get a smallest cog of 10 not 11 so you can get a smaller chain ring say 42, with a 10/42 so fast enough with the 10 and also easy enough with a 42. So equivalent to a 46/30 and 11/30. Canyon sell their Grail with Force 1x with a 10/46 and 42 chainring, so as good as it gets. The RD will also take a 46 cassette for steeper hills. 9t cassettes are available as well....

46T-11-46 perfect for road, TT, triathlon, mtb,bmx, enduro, freeride

I am just after my first test ride of road/MTB combo 3x9 -- crankset 44/32/22 (range 200%) with cassette 12-26. Such cassette (~110% stepping) give you such smooth shifting... amazing. So far the the only downside is you need FD cable converter (JTek Shiftmate) so the price of the setup goes a bit up. But for now I would say it was worth it and I only wonder if I could hack this crankset a bit (violating Shimano advice) into 46/34/22 -- this would be a killer :-).

Great video Russ. Regarding your frustration with multi wheel size bikes. I have been thinking a bit about this, and will share my thoughts. Maybe the problem is that the bike industry tries to sell bikes as being able to run a too wide range in both wheel sizes. A multi wheel size bike should either run 700c gravel tires in the 45mm range or 650b/27.5” tires in the 2.35” range. That would only change the bb height around 5 mm (also the tire radius). That is the same difference you get from switching between 40mm and 45mm 700c tires. It seem to me that designing such a bike is possible without compromising the geometry. The problem I see with such an approach is that the bike might be a hard sell, it would not be recommended to run the hugely popular 650bx47mm tires. However the primary reason why I am drawn to a multi wheel size bike, is the the ability to run MTB tires, and the huge clearance is perfect for that, I do not care that much about the 650bx47mm tires. Others might have different priorities. There are bikes that are able to accommodate such a huge tire range, Bearclaw Bicycle Co. Thunderhawk and All-City Gorilla Monsoon for example. Maybe Bearclaw and All-City gets it and the rest of the industry don´t ;-)

Hey man! Great content! How do you feel about trailers for cargo commutes, touring, pets, etc?

E thirteen. Makes a 11 to 46. With a 30 or 28 crank. Pretty light. A little over 220 dollars. Used on mountainbikes

IMO only cyclists looking to maintain a specific cadence need plenty of gears to choose from. Personally, I like 2x drivetrains with 8-10 speeds with a wide range is perfectly fine.

This is one of the most informative and educational video’s I have seen you put out.

3x. 24/39/50 front; custom 9-speeds 14-30 rear. The only thing that'll get me to upgrade is a set of STI style triple shifters with hydraulic brakes.

Just extended the GRX 800 RD with a 11-46 cassette and a GRX 48/31 thats 18.4 gear inch to 120….all it needed was a wolf lint! I think it will fit a 11-51 and know someone running just that in the Di2 version, thats 16.8 GI on the low side!!

I think for me the death knell of the 50-34 gearing was finally shown in a video from last year on GCN. They interviewed the winner of the Transcontinental bike race across Europe, James Hayden, about his bike. He runs 46-34, and a custom cassette with 13-34. That's right, his top gear is 46x13. So all those people who "need" a 50x11 are totally kidding themselves, even if they are racing. Check him out chatting about how he chose his gearing setup: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kK-jqKppxs2-dH0.html

More speeds just gives more cadence options, I'm running a hacked together 11-36 7 speed setup and beyond the first 3 or 4 gears the jumps get kinda large and I go from a comfortable 98 rpms to 115 in one shift.

I ride 46/36, 28/11 and its perfect - not one useless sproket and everything works quiet and smooth. Oh i ride all kind of terrain and it works perfect and fast with wtb exposures in only 34mm (best all round tires)...

Just an FYI on triple life expectancy - While Russ is correct that the road triple (and MTB triple for that matter) will be dropping off quickly, Shimano is still releasing new models of triples in their "trekking" range (Based on the MTB design but with a much wider gearing range). Common examples are 48-36-26 and 44-32-22. These are extremely popular in continental European countries where bikes are heavily used for urban/utility transport. The vast majority of bike shops in Europe service "non sports riders" and are full of bikes with these trekking triples. The reason that we don't see them in US, Australia etc. is because the majority of riding in those locations is for sport/exercise rather than actual transport.

TRRRIPPPLEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How did you leave out 50-39-30!!!! w/ 11-34 or 11-36 please update, its my current setup and its amazing!!!!

3x9 48/38/28 11-40t Easy to get that combination here, if easy to get 44/28 crank maybe i'll swap 😁

Thanks for the gearing advice. Your advocating for the 46 - 30 or 28 subcompact double has me looking to buy one for my 2010 Giant TCX that I’m trying to retrofit for gravel bikepacking without dropping too much money on new parts.

We also need cassettes that start at 14T sprockets instead of 11. Even with a 46/30 crank, I don't need those small cogs and a tight pattern on a 14-36 would be great.

Currently running 1x chainring with 40T. Really wouldn't mind going down a little bit more...

10:10 A shining example how multi wheel choice bicycles should be designed are the Open U.P. and the 3T Exploro. No mounts on either, but bikepacking is very possible, & great after market solutions for racks & stuff exist (TailFin comes to mind). I know they might not be Russ or everyone’s taste (or wallet), but they’re a shining example on how great bicycle design for multiple wheel choices should be.

As I've gotten older, I find that I don't need those top gears as much. If I'm on a road where it is possible to go over 30 mph (like a nice downhill), then I'm not pedaling, I'm just enjoying the view as I coast down that hill. So even on my road bike I'm looking more for the lower gears. And yeah, on my gravel bike it's all about the low gears. Our gravel riding is on logging roads and some single-track, a lot of 10%+ inclines.

Need a video on your skin care route. Looking radiant 😘

I started out on triple set chain rings with 8,9,10 cassettes but over the 35+years I’ve noticed seldom do I get into speeds of over 25km/hr while loaded. My knees and Achilles’ tendons can’t stand that let alone keeping my loaded bike stable at such speeds. I’ve been reducing my top end more to concentrate on hill climbing ease more. Many bike manufacturers were always presenting speed as the thing to concentrate on, that was crap as I found out. I will be soon switching to a gravel bike but I want at least one gear range below 20 gear inches for hill climbing and I still seem to get that stunned look from bike shops when I request that, what not go faster? No I’m not racing, I’m touring and the world isn’t flat!

"voice of sanity" thank you... lower gears, wider bike shoes, alt bars, it's all good

A bit off topic, but...could you talk about some good ways of finding gravel biking routes in a persons local area? Like mapping apps, etc. 'm interested in finding those 'paths less pedaled.' Thanks!!!

I'm surprised you didn't include the SRAM 10-42 option. Accepting that the 10 tooth on the rear requires an XD hub, it can be paired with a smaller 1X chain ring to lower the bottom end without compromising the top end; Reducing the chain ring from 38 to 34 gives 21.75 inches at the bottom, while 34/10 is equivalent to 38/11 .

50/34 x 11/32 for fast rolling trails and... 42/28 x 11/42 on my monstercross for the extreme % I can find here in the French Pyrennees. Please brands, consider a 46/30 offering!

I currently have a 50-34 chainset and 11-34 cassette and get by with it, with a bit of struggle on super steep offroad climbs. Definitely plan to switch to a 48-32 or 46-30 on the front with a custom 11-36 on the back at some point. On topic of triples: They were necessary back when we had 8-speed tops, but nowadays you get more usable gears with a 2x11. Triples are just a hassle to shift and maintain, you can never use the full cassette with a chainring, just constant shifting the front to avoid chainrub. I could see a use for them if you were after an INSANE gear range, but then again there's probably no rear derrailleur that could keep the chain tensioned for that ^^

Newbie here. As a follow up video, could you talk more about the 46/30 36t combo? Being your personal favorite, what are some brands or configurations you would use? I'm still choosing the specs for a new bike build so this information would be very handy.

I ran SRAM 1x Rival with a 42t x 11-42 for about 10 months and it sucked. Even on gravel I never had the right gear for cruising - I was either spinning or pushing too hard. I’m now on the Praxis Alba 2x sub compact 48-32 paired with new 105 hydro groupset with 11-34 at the back and the Ultegra RX derailleur. Full range of gears, always the right one for the conditions, shifts silently and that bottom gear is a winch on long and/or steep hills. Never going back to 1x.

I am now unconfused and going to be a smarter when buying and setting up for gravel/backcountry touring for Rockies and Northern Plains this year. Looks like 40/28 and 36T is where I need to head on 700 wheels and a bike designed for 700's. I am still I am newb but familiar enough with ergonomic and industrial design to understand that good bike design does not lend itself to modularity.

I run a 34-50/11-36 on 35C, works fine but I recently got a Pack Rat and consider to buy sub-compact for 30-46/11-32 🤔