I have a 3x9, but indexed. And it runs prefect as well 22/32/44 with a 11-34🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣44 to 34 I get a little rub, but I'm NOT moving to friction.

@@bindingcurve why don't you try friction out ?

@@mryotahead Be there, done that back in the 90s I still have a vintage road bike with down tube shifters. Never like bar ends.

i'm using 2x9 alivio on my blacksnow dragoon. excellent transition between gears.

You only need a 2 by on large wheels. My Tern Verge X11 runs a 52 to 10--42 rear cassette. There is no hill it cannot climb. And it can kiss 30mph on the flat. So that's what's not spoken about here. It's the overall gear ratios. And the WHEEL SIZE has to be factored into this. 20 inch wheels 406 or 451 like the X11 has don't need 2 by systems. 52--42 on my X11 has never been defeated. And I've been up mountains on that baby. And it floats up them..

The old school set ups are much more versatile and modifiable. With modern ramped and pinned gears they work fine if the rider has a clue how to shift properly. Plan shifts ahead, find 'em, DONT GRIND 'em! Modern stuff requires more proprietary parts because its all designed to function as a system. Friction shifting simplifies things in a major way since you can vary the amount of the front derailleur's throw easily with limit screws. Its not dictated by the shifter. On a double chainring setup there is no need for complex indexing if you understand HOW to shift. Trimming the derailleur to avoid chain rub is far easier and infinitely adjustable. As far as long distance touring goes, cheap low level parts are much more available and way less proprietary. They can be tuned to work just fine. Just not with proprietary modern 'popular' overpriced junk! They're often much easier to find in a pinch.

A 2000$ heavy bike with outdated components is not the answer

@@rollinrat4850 yeah no, you can find entry level indexed shifters at way cheaper price than the friction ones

@@rollinrat4850 I enjoy my old 3x up front. It gives me plenty of range.

@@mahmam3128 These days, $2000 buys a pretty cheap bike unless you're clever enough and buy used junk or get it free like I often do. Really Good old stuff is out there 'cheap' of free if you look hard enough. They certainly don't make 'em like they used to. Ive witnessed most of the bike industry decline for decades. It started when manufacturers began building things in China. Ive worked as a source inspector. Nobody fools me. There's a reason that happened. It is INDEED cheaper, corners are cut, compromise is made, all in the name of corporate profit. Haha, all my friction shifters are pretty ancient. They were paid for long ago. Often I get this old used stuff for free. Folks think it's just old junk. But Its like finding treasure for me! Ever been gold prospecting? Its a real thrill when you find something. REALLY Hard work though. Modern cheap Chinese junk never lasts even half as long as 'good old junk'. Even high end Sram doesnt last that long. When cheap junk requires frequent replacement and repair, it's not so cheap. My rides are often long enough and remote enough that my life relies upon my bike's reliability. Walking out is hardly an option. There is no cell signal. Ive got to be able to fix things if they break on my own. I ride in N Wackofornia's largest state park often enough. 80000 acres. Several hundred miles of trail. Part wilderness, sometimes bikepacking for a week all alone, usually I'll fish out there to eat enough. The entire bike industry is devolving quality wise. I've tested and repaired most of whats on the market and it's mostly just job security. More service, More sales, more PROFIT. I'd really like to buy some of those fancy Rivendell friction shifters, but my 'old junk' still works fine. I can't justify the cost nor do I see the point. I'm a retired machinist, mechanical inspector and a shop mechanic running my own business. I could machine my own shifters if I really wanted to. I can measure and prove quality and I've rebuilt and replaced all sorts of shifters on my customer's bikes. Nobody's fooling me. But to each his own. I have customers who constantly abuse, break and ignore their high end junk, not to even mention the cheap Chinese low end garbage. Its all just more job security. Modern indexed shifters are complex like clockwork inside. Cheap junk is stamped metal and plastic with cheap weak springs. In other words, you pay for what you get. They've all got a bunch of complicated tiny parts to wear out and get dirty. Its even worse with brifters. This sorta stuff rarely lasts decadeS. Even if you don't use it, it gets worse. Believe it or not. Even the high end junk. Friction shifters are simple with very few parts to go wrong. The simplicity, long life, 'foolproofness'and reliability makes them an excellent value no matter what they cost. Mine haven't failed to shift yet. When they do, I figure I already got my money's worth 10 years ago. I use really old Sun Tour ratchets, Dura Ace 8 and 9 speed bar ends, some more than 40 years old. They've all been on several different bikes, toured all over, crashed and raced on a muddy 'cross course, hosed down even. The indexing on all of 'em pretty much wore out a few years ago, then I just switched them to friction, they still work fine. Friction also allows me to use any of my numerous cassettes and wheels, 6 speed thru 10 speed. That's more gears than I'll ever 'need'. I also use some old '80s XC Pro and XT thumb shifters custom machined to fit in the hooks on my dirt drop bars. They used to index as well, still friction shifting just fine. Some still do but I want friction The old Sun Tour XC Pro stuff is as nice as old XTR. Got several for free! This is my 'newest' set up. Its pretty cool because I like riding in the hooks mostly. You can get away with inexpensive derailleurs, gears and chain, but shifting precision is in the shifters. They're worth spending extra on. This is a pro mechanic's tip. Sometimes paying extra gets you a better product. Sometimes not. I understand why and how. Believe it or not. A fancy derailleur will get bent or torn off the frame much like a cheap one in a crash. Ive got a drawer of broken derailleur. Sometimes I'll take several broken derailleurs and built one good out of all the spare parts. I like recycling and repurposing. Cycling was supposed to be a green sport, opposed to cheap junk that quickly ends up in a landfill. You should check out our dumpster! Derailleurs are expendable, ride hard enough and their destruction is inevitable. Cheap indexed junk is simply shoddy, then it dies an early death. But it's your money. Ride what you like. Modern 'affordable?' 12 speed Sram and Shimano is finicky, imprecise and clunky shifting. I fix this stuff every day. I wouldn't ride it if it was free! But maybe I might if I was sponsored and they actually paid me. I can actually afford anything I want. Ive been down that 'upgrade' rabbit hole before. Its empty. But I also see no logic in buying poor quality junk. I simply know better. I build entirely custom bikes, frame up, just the way I want, often with nice old parts. I DIY as much as I find practical. Ive built my own frames, forks, stems, Ive machined cranks, brakes, hubs and lots more. I build custom wheels as a small business. Bicycles are actually extremely simple machines. Ive helped build aircraft, spacecraft and a surgeon's instruments, lots of other expensive stuff too. Bikes are relatively easy by comparison. I fixed bikes as an 8 year old. I'm a lifelong bike geek. Its a lifelong lifestyle for over 5 decades. I can get all the newest high end junk I'd want at cost, but why? My 'old junk' still works just fine. Besides, it's the rider, not the freakin bike. My favorite, most used bike currently is a fixed gear 'cross bike. So shifting is sort of moot. I just push the pedals a bit harder. But again, ride whatever you like. Its your money. As long as you ride, that's all that matters.

Apparently you can move with your foot.... Russ mentioned that last video.

I do this too when ever I do a 1x conversion I always leave on the small ring

😂🙃😂

Also may work with narrow wide chainrings for avoiding chain drop, but missing the ability of foot derailleur

The small amount of weight saved by removing small chainring and bolts makes little sense. Ive run the sans derailleur set up quite often as well with a 1X big chainring. It might force you to try harder on the 'big ring' so you don't need to get off to shift. When I was a kid in the '70s my derailleur broke and I was also broke. So I learned to shift by hand while I was riding. Never tried with my toe. I think some folks are afraid to get their hands dirty! Downshifts are pretty easy if you plan ahead. The up shifts are trickier but possible if you're not pushing the pedals very hard.

Indeed! Friction shifting works much better in these situations. Trimming the derailleurs infinitely is possible when cross chaining. Friction shifting has a bunch of attributes service wise as well as incredible reliability and almost universal compatibility. Most especially on a two ring setup. Riders NEED to learn to shift properly and become weaned off the clicky bits. Its the RIDER, not the freakin' bike! I'm an old school shop mechanic. If anything drives me away from the bike industry, its overpriced, overly complex, unreliable proprietary bike junk! It all makes my job way harder than simple machines ought to be! The good part is that it's ALL job security! Fewer and fewer people are mechanical these days. More complexity, more service, more sales, MORE PROFIT!

@@janeblogs324 the cross chaining shouldn’t be different to any standard double chainset as the distance between the two chainrings is the same, unless you are using unusual chainrings. My idea with the super-compact was to have it as a 1x plus granny, so that I would use the small chainring very rarely on steep hills when in the larger sprockets. But it actually works well in the smaller sprockets also. Rides really well and the shifting in the front is pretty much on par with standard double. In the ‘large’ chainring it works in the second to largest sprocket just fine. For reference I’m using a 9 speed 11-36 sunrace cassette and the 40-24 chainset is setup from a 110/74 bcd triple and using the inner 2 chainring positions only.

How do you save comments for future working-in-the-garage inspiration?

Deore 2x10 with Clutch is impressive.

This is the quickest most sound option going. To those w older cranks, you can make a decent 2x- Small and middle rings, or large and middle w nice corresponding cassette in back. You do not need to spend a lot of $$$

What? Put on a drivetrain that works instead of cobbling something together, are you nuts?

But 3x will be the next big thing!

I am also a fan of 1x. I will say, they can certainly still suffer from chain/tire clearance conflicts. The Surly Wednesday (according to Surly) clears a 4.6” tire in the most rear position. We found out the hard way with a Surly Edna 4.3”, that while it clears the frame, it does not clear the stock 1x12 chain line in the largest gears. Surly told me that this figure was indeed a frame cleanance number, yet it ships with the 1x12.

@@ElevationEveryWeekend indeed! Just tossing a 1x on the bike does not compensate for poor frame design, or enable any combination of drivetrain and tire/rim configurations. It's amazing how many bikes ship with 12spd groups or expanded cassette groups just because it's become "standard" while being completely ok with chainsuck, terrible chainlines, chain loss while backpedaling at steep gearings, and loss of tire clearance. I have a number of beautiful custom boost spacing bike frames I designed with 40mm rims and 3.8" tires in mind, where I utilized extra wide square taper BBs (you can find some amazing quality, bizarrely wide titanium spindles floating out there on ebay) and Middleburn/White SS Cranksets. Totally outside the realm of normality, and makes for a spectacular backcountry platform. For folks who prefer more than singlespeed configurations for bikepacking (most people 😂), I've strongly gone back to recommending 1x10 expanded groups as they are less finicky and prone to some of the surprise limitations of 1x11 and 1x12 groupsets... Plus you can get some great 10spd setups at very affordable prices.

I live in an extremely hilly area so it's super important for me to have that granny gear. When I've already been riding hard for 40 miles and then come up to a crazy mile long climb, I thank myself for having a 3x. For your situation though, a 1x makes perfect sense. You probably need a wider tyre more than anything else. This is why I find it weird that people judge others on their choices. We know what's best for our situation. I also got weird looks at the store for saying I prefer mechanical brakes over hydro... When will people learn😂

@@Ferrichrome it's great to see a few more quality mechanical brakes hitting the market. Mechanical brakes are a non negotiable for me given my riding desires. People have literally told me to my face "well I guess you're just not riding very hard stuff" because of my dislike for hydros. Funny how, if I can control a 100lbs bike fully loaded down a black diamond singletrack, I don't have a need for more stopping power 😂. Paul Klampers are expensive 🫰 but when dialed with 200mm rotors and quality housing, they are very strong. Even BB7s have great stopping power when setup appropriately. I think most folks just don't know how, and don't want to take the time, to dial in their mechanical brakes every so many miles. I have certainly learned that - due to the singlular piston (don't much prefer the spongy feel of dual piston mechanical brakes except for commuting) - mechanicals just need a tiny bit of regular love to maintain optimization. Cheers 🥂 🚲

@@renaissancecyclist9120 that is very true about making adjustments. I’m personally not great at it. I haven’t ever had hydro brakes (trying it on my next build). I think it’s wild people just anybody’s choice in bikes negatively if it’s what they like and are happy with it. I thought about going square taper too, but I haven’t. Sounds like you have some cool bikes.

That sounds absolutely great, could you please elaborate? Does it work well? Are you index shifting? Have you considered adapting a MTB triple chainrings before building iit from scratch? What are the requirements for it to work? From which manufacturer do the parts come? How does it compare to a modern 2x10 setup in terms of shifting? And finally, are you satisfied and if not, what's there to improve?

@Telegram @path less pedaled what? This is some scam, is it?

its a scam.

@@PathLessPedaledTV yes, and I reported it as such.

You don't even need a front derailleur. Use a 1x chainring most of the time, hand shift in or out of the granny gear for the hard hills.

Not all frames have cable stops. Some frames don’t have a single cable stop anywhere on the frame. Thus even if the cable is run under the downtube (assuming that the frame even has a downtube) won’t allow you to run a front derailleur without modifications or a special clamp such as what he showed in the video. I will also add that many frames don’t have a single round tube to allow a normal round clamp. Thus requiring a band type clamp, proprietary clamp custom made for that frame or drilling holes in the frame (or welding/brazing cable stops) - this is a common dilemma with mountain bikes and carbon fiber. Most modern carbon fiber mountain bikes don’t allow front derailleur’s to be mounted. Some front derailleurs have an integrated cable stop but they are rare.

Roy I'm running a 22 granny with a 38 narrow wide on my monster cross without a front derailleur. I just keep pushing the 'big ring' until I can't, then get off shift and catch my breath. Sometimes I can shift by hand without getting off. I've been doing that since the '70s. Lately my old back's hurting and I'm thinking about a front shifter. What do you hack to shift on the 1X ring?

My old bike came with 5 speed cassette indexed and double chaining friction. Changed that about 20 years ago to triple 28-38-48, works great with just a bit adjustment. And never drops the chain like my newer 1 x bike does.

I made several videos about 1x mullet builds and at the end of it, couldn't get the range I wanted without spending stupid money.

@@PathLessPedaledTV Why stupid money? The Deore 11 speed 11-51 is what I run on my flat bar, and I'm a tight wad. (I do run 7020 105 on my drop bar)

@@bindingcurve the bikes all had drop bars and to get it to work on drop bar bikes you either have to go electronic or other shenanigans.

@@PathLessPedaledTV or just use those friction shifters you have on your bar ends.

TA and Stronglight are both old French manufacturers. They both make really nice products. They also both make chainrings to fit lots of BCDs. They're not cheap, but it excellent quality, long lasting stuff. The silver TAs are very nicely polished! Sugino is another older manufacturer from Japan. They make really nice cranks and chainrings as well.

I think it is novel but too complex and expensive for mass adoption.

TA makes great rings! So does another old French company, Stronglight. They all shift great too! They both make chainrings for a whole bunch of BCDs!

I bought one of those TA chainrings. It was expensive. It’s also the nicest chainring that I’ve ever seen.

Peter White is the only shop I know of in the US that imports them.

@@rollinrat4850 Ditto. You can occasionally find them on eBay! Thankfully they tend to last longer than most - I've also had good experience w/ the similar but cheaper Stronglight rings which some sellers sell on eBay and import from the UK.

@@mattdrange4219 Ive got some ancient Stronglight model 93 star Cranks, Coolest looking cranks ever IMO. They're on an old Motobecane Grand Record from the '70s. Bernard Thevenet won the TDF on those cranks! I Don't ride it anymore, I just like looking at the cranks. Check 'em out. I've also got several Stronglight roller bearing headsets. Awesome headsets that can solve fork shimmy problems. They've lasted as long as my Chris King headset from the '80s. These I do still use on a regular basis. I don't overhaul them often either. All are on the same sets of bearings just like my Chris King stuff too. I dig the good 'old junk'!

What chainrings that small work with an Ultegra crankset?? Would love a setup like that

@@peterwills735 Ultegra 6603 triple crankset Outer two positions are 130bcd so minimum is 38T inner is 74bcd so you can go down to 24 teeth I have run 30-46, 26-39-46 but currently 26-42 - very flexible with the right shifter and mech

Ive found that friction shifters and mtb 2x derailleurs work best and easiest to tune with these wide ratio chainring set ups. I did not know there was an Ultegra triple with a 74mm bcd. Interesting! I'm using an older Sun Tour XC Pro.

Even if they didn't exist. You need to use a bit of initiative sometimes. I have a Trek FX3. And I put a 1 by system on it. 44 on the front to 11 to 36 on the back 1X9. The problem was I was getting alot of chain drops. It become so annoying. And at times dangerous. It happened to me one time on the Caterham Bypass in London. And thats not a place you ever want to be stuck on a bike you can't pedal. I was lucky I was near my exit when it happened. So I got washers and using the 5 double ring bolts Started to play around with the positioning of the single front 44 chainring. I centered it more by about 4mm from where it was SUPPOSED to be. And bingo I've never had a single chain drop since going from 11 to 36. Sometimes you've got to use your own initiative to get what you want. It's often personal to your particular bike..Just like the right saddle for the individual is..

If ageing is in mind then stick with the 3x

@@mmmbass6068 Its an idea. PS: I see what you meant now. Upgrading to a climbing 3x would do the job in all aspects without adding anything new. As I mature am more concerned with utility, comfort/pleasure, and health.

Exactly! The least effort, cheapest and best working method and approach!!!

I don't know whats so confusing here. I had a triple for years and barely used the big ring. Its just optimizing for the gears I used most.

For commuting most of us will never be challenged. You will typically get some hills 10 to 20 grade. A couple of hundred metres long at most. And we are cruising up them with our 5 to 10lb rucksacks on. The quads face no real challenge. If you are bike packing. And moving a total weight in excess of 250lbs. That's when the 2 or 3 by systems come into play. And have their merits. It's horses for courses literally..

I went for a used 2021 trek fx2, ended up being a cheap price for a decent quality new bike. It's a good all-rounder type bike. but yeah you're right pricing is fucking insane for the better stuff

Since I don't own a car I saved the down payment so my expensive bike came about for free.

If one is patient and actually looks around, there are perfectly good, barely used old bikes to be had for cheap or even free. I've been procuring such bikes for decades. I restore or build em up, ride the hell out of 'em, break 'em or grow bored and give them away.

@@rollinrat4850 Oh yea I agree. I do the same to be honest. Like only $100 buck builds or if you're feeling real fancy, a $200 build XD I just wanted the State Bicycle to review it on my channel since it was getting popular

105 "5800" 11-speed rim-brake mechanical used to be sub $500. It was the "group set of the people". But the new 105 12-speed disc & Di2 is priced out of control! $1886.87? Feh? That's more than I paid for my complete Giant TCR w/105-5800 new.

I have done this repeatedly, fastest cheap accurate method. And for those who move faster, then large middle rings. No reason to reinvent the wheel.

@@Llamabanger Haha, there's a reason alright. But I'm not buying it. Its not what I 'need'. I know better! I boycott what I don't need or don't like. Too bad so many people pay attention to marketing BS. There's lots of better and logical alternatives. 1x is best used for the gravity-centric riding and cyclocross racing.

The narrower chain could have been another potential reason it was getting stuck in the middle.

www.amazon.com :)

Clearly. But someone will always say, why did you buy such expensive bike parts when u can buy something that works at Ace.