"can play with anyone" as long as Draymond and Klay are healthy

@@pex3 That's why it's called a ceiling raiser. You're starting with a team that already can contend, and you make it a lot better. A lot of players don't fit this mold because they're only dominant when the ball is in their hands all the time, or aren't great passers, etc. A lot of times, people only judge greatness by seeing how well the team does when he plays with a garbage roster, but that's not how championships are won. Those guys are floor raisers. But these guys don't necessarily mesh well when added to strong rosters so they only make the team a little better.

Literally Bill Simmons is the one who said that

@@mrmacross so in other words, steph is the ultimate front runner and lebron is the ultimate bum carrier

Wait, wasn’t it Zach Lowe who said this about Steph Curry and James Harden, not Lebron? Maybe during the 2009 redraft, when they were talking about the #1 pick.

LeBron did start the FA super teams so yeah. Kinda on him.

@@TruthDissident if he started the free agency super teams do you want to explain to me the Houston Rockets of the 90s the 2010 Lakers Tracy McGrady Grant Hill magic and honestly the Mid to late 2000s suns teams. The Harding Howard rockets. This was going on long before LeBron made the decision

@@MacNCheezeWhiz The Lakers in 2012 had a washed up Nash and Kobe/Howard. That wasn't a superteam. The Celtics were but they were traded to be together. LeBron legit joined a team with another top 5 player and a top 10 player in Bosh at the time. Diff shit.

@@MacNCheezeWhiz The Rockets....Pippen, Barkley, and Olajuwon were all the very tail ends of their careers. The 2010s Lakers, Nash wasn't an MVP caliber player anymore & not really sure why Dwight fell off a cliff so drastically. The Magic....Hill never lived up to expectations because of the injuries and was past his prime at that point. Harden & Howard were after The Decision. LeBron ushered in this era of player power and movement, whether his fans want to admit it or not. 2010 Wade had a legitimate case as the best player in the league, and LeBron chose to team up with him. Obviously Wade's knees & back began to give way shortly after, but LeBron didn't know that going into the situation. Never has another player of LeBron's caliber, smack in the middle of their prime, joined another top 5 player via free agency before he took his talents to South Beach. I get it, y'all will defend LeBron until your dying breath, but you're just wrong on this one.

@@illuminatedstorm a

Watching the Bill Russell video that Bill has on here reminds me of this. I really think Curry is a great winner himself with hearing that

I remember when they didn't trade for Amar'e Stoudemire because they wouldn't come off of j.j. Hickson in 2009 LOL

@Tong Zou Sam Presti would like to have a word...with the "greatest talent evaluator of all time." He may not be there yet...but he's coming for West...as INSANELY great as West was...West also didn't want Magic. Though, to be fair, Sidney Moncrief was an outstanding NBA player. A VASTLY underrated and underappreciated player from the 1980s. So even that, not a HUGE knock, but...Presti is fucking amazing.

No he never had the patience for the team to develop young players. If it is about the organization then he would never left Miami. It is always about taking the short cut and how it would be easier to get to a place to win it now. That is why he keeps trying to form super team and jump ship.

And also, the expectations that Lebron had to carry the burden of. Steph didn’t have the burden of getting comparisons of Kobe and Jordan. Nor were people saying Steph had to win X amount of rings to be great or whatever. So Steph was able be patient and allowed the franchise to grow into a monster.

@@scourge8097 If you're going to knock West for the Magic Johnson incident, then you have to nail Presti for running out of money to sign Harden while staying under the luxury tax because he signed Kendrick Perkins to a large extension. They lost James Harden because they thought Kendrick Perkins was going to be a major impact player.

🤣🤣 always hand on chin maybe thinkin are you outta your mind Bill

He’s been ELITE for a long time

I agree. His vibe is different from what I remember from ESPN. He seems more relaxed and just more, I guess conversational. Like he can just be himself.

Fam steph ave 17pts and over 40% from 3 as a rookie he was also a superstar in college. He had a lot of hype coming out of Davidson obviously no where near the hype of LeBron but he had a lot of pressure to live up to his Davidson career and his dad was also a great role player

All that is irrelevant, just like they are saying, imagine if lebron was more grounded as a person and put surrounded himself with people giving him great advice. Curry was dealt a better card as in his pops played in the nba so even tho he was popular coming into the league he was still grounded coming from a more stable family situation. That's no excuse tho, lebron imo severely underachieved for his career, with a head start and great physical tools he still has the same amount of rings as wardell

Excuses are like assholes, everyone's got one or two. In LBJs case .. I count 6 just from you 😂

False. Ever since 2010 it's been championship or bust and he couldn't handle that 'pressure' so he created 3 superteams back to back to back smdh.

lies. Lebron said himself he was talking about playing toegther back in 07-08 LOL

@@savonsanders3955 I picked a round multiple of 5 number instead of trying to think back to the exact year, so sorry I was off by 3 years. Also putting pressure in quotes like it's arbitrary or flippant to be expected to win a championship or be viewed as a failure for over a decade is idiotic. Being held to a standard that no one has previously accomplished is insane pressure. Lastly, I'll give you the Heat were a super team, second stint with the Cavs is also probably a super team, but none of these Lakers teams have been super teams, so I don't know what you're considering the 3rd super team

@@alxfonso4924 he also has talked about playing together with CP3, Melo, and I believe one other star that I can't remember on the 'Banana Boat' team, but that's never happened. Talking about it doesn't mean planning. The fact is that he didn't leave to join the Heat until the season after KG and Ray Allen joined Pierce and a young Rondo in Boston

Gotta have thicker skin. Curry could have heard the noise these last few years but he had faith and stuck with it. I'd rather work with that kinda guy.

And the funniest part is that Bill makes fun of other shows for talking about Lebron. He can’t keep Lebron’s name out of his mputh.

@@omieg89 Bill wouldn’t be mad if “his” Celtics lost just so he could spend the summer convincing himself Curry is better than Lebron

That’s not necessarily an advantage over Steph. Bron formed a super team in Miami, he was going to win there regardless. If Steph goes and teams up with Gianni’s and Luka they will win at least 2 chips…what does that prove?

And we have seen him lose the most with multiple teams

Giannis and Luka are way better than Bosh and Wade were by 2011. Neither Wade nor Bosh were the best players at their position at that time and Wade was already slowing down because of injury issues (knees if I remember). Luka and Giannis are MVP candidate caliber players right now. This scenario is not comparable to Miami in 2011.

@@soleil3gs DICK RIDAAAAA

That doesn't help Lebrons case. He has to switch teams every 4 years and join other star in order to continue competing for titles

Duh. Thank you captain obvious. Water is also wet

only he doesnt make contending teams great, there was no point in lebrons career where his team was clearly the best, most people would call his 2013 heat his best team but they barely won two seven game series, while steph when steph's teams were at their best they were basically unbeatable

@@trimrimmer except that series where they almost lost to the thunder, and then did lose to the cavs. But yeah unbeatable once they added Durant, except then they almost lost to Houston, twice, and did lose to the raptors.

@@dayneamyx5916 16-1 in 2017 steph was injured in 18 and they smashed houston in 2019 without durant then this year they’re 12-3 so far

Actually half of the time when lebron won. It was a shortened season.

It wasn’t an either or conversation. Just as they said, Bron is the ultimate floor raiser for teams. Prime Lebron puts nearly anyone in contention, but Steph… raises the ceiling of potential on teams. No one is saying that Steph is better than Lebron. No one.

It might be BETTER to build around LeBron because he's one of the absolute greatest to ever play. However, it might be EASIER to build around Curry because he fits with a lot of different kinds of players.

@@flibbidyx2 no because Steph is like Duncan. It’s easier and better to build around Steph, because when Lebron leaves you’re at Rick bottom, because of the way Lebron demands a win now type of management. So after 3 or 4 years the roster is cooked, but you probably will have rings. Lebron is a better player no doubt. No debate! Steph is easier and better to build around because he allows you to build around him and draft/grow the team in his image.

@@lewisjones3345 prime Steph is better than a prime bron easily. Bron doesn’t make anyone a contender unless he has multiple superstars and not even then

@@indmslikedeez8005 yea you don’t know basketball lmao

Not to mention you need all defensive players to hide Curry

@@firefistace6407 not really.

@@qthe6thman ignore that guy he’s a troll lol

I agree. With Steph you need at least one other high IQ guy with great/elite passing. We saw how Steph and the Warriors struggled this year without Draymond. With LeBron you just need a bunch of 3 and D guys and you’ll make a deep playoff run

@@georgecos814 lol you can be a decent player to excel with Steph. As long as your selfless you’ll be ok. He had Maurice speights lookin like prime Rasheed Lewis

And a COTY... and EOTY...

That depth perception is based on those players being maxed out by the system they play in. Remember Lebron fans complaining how unfair it was that Kobe had Shannon Brown and Jordan Farmar off the bench? Those guys were key pieces in the triangle offense on two championship teams. And they were worthless everywhere else.

Who runs and benefits from playing with Steph? 😸 THE WHOLE TEAM

I think the hardest thing for people to believe is that Curry had anything to do with how well his teammates play with him, and that Curry had anything to do with how players are empowered and developed while playing along side him. In 2015 and 16, Curry was so good, he made folks believe he was on a Superteam. But no one other than Steph was good enough to be the best player on a contending team. If we are being honest, KD was the only acquisition that was Super all by himself. Steph wasn't gifted a Super Klay, Green, Wiggs, Poole, Iggy, Barnes, etc. They became great around him and it was Steph's greatness that elevated their game. Name me another Superstar player in which players became great because of him? Duncan is the only guy that comes to mind. Most of the great guys LeBron played with were already great. No one became great because of KD, Kawhi, Harden, or any other player in this generation. Curry doesn't get enough credit for that.

Outside of Steph's gravity making everyone better, Steph's ankles being shoddy in the beginning was actually a blessing because that allowed for his ridiculously team friendly first contract. I believe he was the fourth or fifth highest paid player on his team for some time. That allowed GSW the cap space to sign for depth and eventually helped with getting Durant (although Durant coming was mostly due to the cap spike). If i recall correctly, during a Draymond podcast, he and Steph even acknowledge how important Steph's first contract was for their run.

It really comes down to this and I don’t understand how Bill can have this convo in good faith and not acknowledge it.

Lebron did that to himself, He choose to wear number 23 he called himself the chosen one, the king, Curry just started calling himself the best shooter of all time when he pass Rey.

@@Dm-lx1jt uh, Sports Illustrated called him The Chosen One...when he was 17 years old and they put him on the cover in HS jersey. Again, no one had that pressure from the outset...and delivered.

@@AdanBean He tatted himself chosen one, He put that on himself. He choose to wear number 23, He calls himself the king even when hes not Mj is better than him.

Well who cares just get better and win idk y nba players care so much about the media like they a bunch of clowns who cares. Like who actually respects skip bayless takes

you say team building but they lucked into all 3 of those players. twolves could have easily taken steph bucks could have easily taken klay more than twenty teams passed on dreymond... warriors didnt take kris middleton. you can look at any dynasty type team and its always luck in the draft or rip off trades. remember warriors passed on lamelo ball.

@@rayrayschnapps8217 i mean you can say that about every team in the history of teams lol. at the end of the day they drafted those guys and it panned out. I thought they should’ve taken LaMelo as well but who’s to say wiseman poole and kuminga can’t be a great trio as this current core ages and eventually retires.

@@fireestyle its not "team building"

@@rayrayschnapps8217 why are you so insistent on arguing. with your logic,any player who wasn’t the number one pick and became the best player in their respective draft the team “lucked up” on.

what pieces did they build around curry clay and dreymond? you could say wiggins but that was from the Durant trade. they got a free asset. cleveland couldnt "build" because they were almost instantly a playoff team. lebron cavs missed the playoffs his first 2 years only and second year barely. playoff purgatory is a known phenomena.

That is a good distinction. Curry likely "fits" with more stars which doesn't necessarily equate to who you would prefer to build a team around.

I'll take Steph .

Yeah I think people are getting confused about Bill’s point. Lebron left the Cavs bottomed out twice for one chip. When Curry leaves the Warriors they will have 3 or more chips and with a talented roster still intact. If you could draft a rookie Lebron or Curry right now for most teams getting Curry would would be better despite the fact Lebron is a better player.

There’s only 30 teams

we can't really say that about curry cause he never changed teams

Lebron literally need to team up with at least one already all star mvp and gold medalist to win every single time where half of the seasons he won it was actually a shortened season and he still lost more than half of the time. So as a matter of fact. He won’t win with most of the other 30 teams. Otherwise he would never need to left Cleveland to win one in the first place. And stop at the team was doing good job at constructing roster bullshit. If that is the case, he would never left Miami in the first place either.

Here’s something else to think about. Steph is the greatest shooter of all time, the greatest off ball player of all time, and probably has a top 5 handle of all time. I don’t think LeBron is the best at any one thing except chase down blocks. Doesn’t really mean anything but it is interesting.

Wait what was that Westbrook point?

Then why did he go team hopping then. It's cause they weren't able to build a proper team around him. I'm not saying Curry would be better but the whole notion that you don't need to build around him is ridiculous. D. Wade and Bosh played differently so that they could synergize with Lebron.

No, kd would make more with Westbrook. Kd actually allowed westbrook to play his game. With lebron westbrook can't do that. The issue is westbrook has very little value when you don't allow him to play his game.

Agrees on everything. Draymonds game is not based on stats, he brings the intangibles that lead to winning kinda like Rodman who would score 2 points double digit rebounds and get in the other teams head. Draymonds gives you 4 points 8 assists 7 rebounds and high level defense

we definitely need to make sure the billionaires get the praise they deserve!

More valuable missing shots?

@@benjaminan1183 meaning Steph could go 5-47 and the D would still quake in their boots cuz they know he can erupt at any moment and the fact that he can pull up from anywhere, him just standing at half court is helping his team cuz of the attention he commands

how's that teammate elevation going this year? it's almost like you need to have actual good players around you for any of that gravity shit to mean anything

Dray is top 75 but he simply quit on that team.

He didn't build up Giannis lol. Giannis dominated, AND BUD GAVE GEORGE HILL WHO RETIRED IN 2017, JORDAN MINUTES AND GRAYSON ALLEN LEBRON MINUTES😭😭😭😂😂😂✌ BUD plays for the celtics

Haha. Can’t put it past ya

Giannis hype? Nah, it's not that complicated, he's just that good 👍🏽

Lol,the warriors won in six

@@kofiantwi7958 they were the better deeper team, never said they weren't, I said I respect Bill for his fandom, dunce

You have to factor in the East was far less competitive than the West and that its window was exactly four years (three, actually, since they had no chance without Kyrie) due to age, lack of depth, and lack of young player development. I agree with your point in general but it's also fair to ask if they might've been better without moving their young talent).

@@mrmacross they wouldn’t of tho just like the lakers wouldn’t of won a championship with Lonzo ball and BI instead of AD

@@mrmacross all the cavs picks were a bust outside kyrie, they did the right thing trading away.

@@khalxd1991 They needed the trade to win in 2016, but I don't think it's quite that simple to make a final determination that the trade was for the best. I don't know if the Warriors recruit Durant if they win the 2016 Finals. Also, take into account that the version of Kevin Love they got was not the best version of himself when he became a third option, and they had to take on additional cap space to roster him. Maybe Cleveland would've been better in 2017 and 2018 if they stuck with Wiggins? I mean, you're right that the trade was the best outcome, but it's fun to think what could've happened if they stuck with Wiggins. Wiggins is flourishing as a third option on GSW now. What if he started his career as one instead of being expected to carry the Minnesota franchise? What we can say for sure is that trading for Love increased CLE's chances of winning a title right away, but because they got into salary cap hell shortly afterward, it also accelerated LeBron's departure.

are you stupid? caruso and lebron had the best net rating of any laker pairing. did you forget the 1 seed in west at 60+ win pace and ring in 2020 with caruso and javale??

Wtf are you talking about Caruso got a 4/36Ms after playing with Lebron

Like when?

@@indmslikedeez8005 ur joking right? 2007 cavs 2009 cavs winning 66 games and mo Williams was his 2nd best player btw mo’s only two all star seasons came playing next to lebron how about the 2010 cavs that won 63 games with lebron mo Williams the ghost of shaq and the ghost of Antwan Jamison but these are only a few examples it’s plenty more

@@gordonbryant8144 u mean 07 where he had no comp to get to the finals and then proceeded to get swept by the spurs cuz his bum ass couldn’t shoot? U mean 09 where he was favored to get to the finals and lost in 6 to the magic? U mean 2010 where he was again favored and blew a 2-1 lead and lost against the aging Celtics? Oh and mo will scored 50 without bron so he was good with or without bron thank u very much. Bron hasn’t done shit with no talent, he plays with established talent he doesn’t help make em. He’s a bum

@@indmslikedeez8005 your entitled to your own opinion guy so am I

@@indmslikedeez8005 were you not alive in 2018? Let alone 2007?

It took Wiggins almost 8 years to live up to his pick. Lebron has no patience for that

you'd think that watching guys like dirk and giannis win a ring would show this to ppl, but no, they still try to reduce this stuff to 'player x is just so much better than player y'

The Warriors before Steph Curry hadn't won anything since 1975.

@@hollyprice4351 the cavs literally never won anything in the entirety of their franchise history until bron, so what’s ur point 😂

Not the GOAT discussion, but if he wins the title and Finals MVP this year, then arguably top 10 all-time. He's in contention for top 10 if he wins this year.

Here's a better question: "How many championships would Lillard have if he had Kevin Durant, Draymond, Klay, Kerr, and Iguodala instead of CJ McCollum and Al Farouq Aminu?"

If anything, we give way too much credit to LeBron when he is irrelevant at this point. The man is not even in the playoffs.

@@pex3 0. Something u lil fanboys don’t get is Steph makes the players he plays with. Lillard would make everyone on that team worse cuz he doesn’t move without the ball and doesn’t have stephs proficiency numbers. He wouldn’t win shit

It was when he was in the worst eastern conference for a decade and the top teams were young Paul George and ducking Roy hibbert 🤣🤣

Luka been in the league 4 years, no one cared about Curry when he was 4 years in, quit hating fam

@@santivalenzuela14 curry was hurt his 1st years in the league

@@rosethao6004 stick to WNBA

@@santivalenzuela14 nobody wants to sit in the corner while Luka dribbles for 22 seconds of the clock lol. And don't ever mention Luka and Curry in the same breath lol. You must not know Curry is levels above.

His top teammates were a guy who was hurt for the last 2 years and a guy that’s one dimensional and zero threat to score. Wiggins was considered absolute poison. No one wanted gp2

He doesn’t have to have the ball, he won with kyrie where kyrie was assisting a lot of his buckets. He also played with wade who wasn’t a spot up shooter, he is just the best on his team and he’s haunted by the ghost of Jordan, so if he doesn’t “get the job done” himself he wouldn’t be successful. Not to mention that he’s pretty much a pg and the best decision maker in history outside of magic. And finally he’s never had a great system around him where he didn’t need to be as ball dominant

which makes players want to play with him but not playing for him cause it’s always LeBron and scrubs, his personal agenda made everyone sure that Wade, Kyrie and AD were just as scrubs as anybody else.

@@maxiqums1549 that narrative is different with AD now cuzz Bron has won

Lebron has played with 3 different types of second options. He has won with a star big man. A Star do it all player like himself in Wade. And a star scoring point. Those guys weren’t completely off ball in all their time playing with Lebron.

You’re crazy, one Dwyane Wade could shoot the ball, it wasn’t a three point dominant league at the time. Mario Chalmers nor Bibby we’re ball dominant. Lastly, it just goes to show how much you don’t pay attention to but Chris bosh is not just a big man. If you really think about his contributions to the NBA he was the start to the stretch four. You can see it in his attempts from outside of 20 feet his rebound percentage is going down and the percentage of use in the post. He revolutionized his three point game, and had his career cut out from underneath them early. Now onto the second team he’s one with, he didn’t just play with a ball dominant point guard, he was playing with one of the best scorers of the time. Remember it’s Kyrie who hits that dagger three, much like 13 when he had to have another Hall of Famer bury the three that he missed. And remember at the time the Golden State Warriors were running scores up the wall. The desperate need for somebody who else could pop up 20 points a game from anywhere on the floor was desperately needed. once again Kevin Love was not a basic big man, comes off his peak in Minnesota, comes into Cleveland is not expected for 20 rebounds a game anymore not expected the count for 3/4 of their teams points. Kevin Love really became a great off the ball player. And was becoming efficient in a rapid hurry. Stretching his game back out from outside the post where he was forced to play in Minnesota in order to get every rebound. Kevin loves career change Kevin loves game changed. It is not shown that LeBron can play with anybody. If so why didn’t he win with Larry Hughes or Eddie snow. The reason why that they didn’t was because that these players could not get to the level that LeBron was at. I can’t stand LeBron, but if there’s one thing that he has always been able to do that I am praising a lot of the other players on this list that he has one with is that he has been able to elevate and change his game year by year no matter what the circumstances needed in order to try to win. That’s a mentality that not very many players have in the NBA, we hear about it all the time players being happy they scored 30 or 40 points in a game but still lose. LeBron didn’t care if he only scored three points in a game as long as they won. Don’t sell yourself nor those team short

@@MacNCheezeWhiz except Lebron did win with Larry Hughes and Eric Snow. He didn’t win the championship but what other superstar in NBA history drags that team to the finals. The following year, again he had a terrible supporting cast and almost beat the eventual 2008 Celtics. When Kobe played them in the finals, he lost in 6. And Kobe had a way better team than Lebron during that season.

@@omieg89 I should have been more clear I meant his rookie year when those players mentions talked about how they didn’t need him.

People leave out one of the most important details of Steph’s career. He had the bad fortune of early injuries which ultimately paid off by having Steph on such a cheap contract during the 2015-2017 seasons. You can’t really compare the two players. The warriors wouldn’t have had the cap space to sign KD if Steph didn’t have the injury history.

Its easier to build around steph because he had no ego he his no ball dominant..

FACTS

"Probably a lower ceiling when it comes to him facing better overall teams (Celtics, Mavs, Spurs, Warriors)." There you go.

i don't 100% agree with this, but...1. i appreciate that you also mentioned draymond, bc ppl act like he's not the 2nd-most important player to the warriors' run and 2. that 2022 playoff run was indeed incredible, made me put steph over durant. excellent finals performance against a team that ppl thought could defend him too. i wouldn't argue with anyone who said 2022 was steph's best season from beginning to end.

Good we need more to wake up the lecult

Yea he didn’t think before he spoke lol. Lotta anti lebron from bill, but all sneakily

*should've

bron didn't even make the play in this year, what's his excuse?

@@markarren7480 he's almost 40 and wasn't healthy for all the games. Also this lakers team is worse than last year's

Highly debatable

Disagree

@@nicholaschristodoulou3821 Sorry I meant this Lakers team and last team warriors team