I totally understand you, I lived the same story. Some people should undergo psychological evaluations before considering having children.

Could not relate more. My father is the textbook example of a Narcissist. Any one that ever met him for a moment or knew him on the surface adored him, cause he knows how to put on a face. They could never know who he really was to his daughters. My favorite was when people would tell me I was “ so lucky” to be his daughter

Yes and half of the children said she was the devil and the other half said she was lovely

@@pimpharold1 Both can be true. It happens all the time. In every walk of life. Friendship, marriage, and parenthood. My mom would push my sister out of the way of a speeding car but she wouldn’t piss on me if I was on fire. Go figure!!!!

Hear hear.

Completely agree with you.

Excellent point. I just found out this movie is a camp classic and found that unbelievably disturbing. It also makes me wonder if Faye Dunaway suffered like that but just couldn’t expose her abuser. Or perhaps she had forgiven them, because she keeps talking about wanting to “humanize” Joan. And the movie became about Joan and not about the little girl’s perspective. It seems like such insult to injury that Faye should play a character so true, give audiences a glimpse into something horrific and disturbing, and be laughed at for being “over the top.” Honestly I don’t think anyone who hasn’t lived it could play the character that way. Like you said if you’re just watching and have never experienced it, her performance looks ridiculous and over-blown. It’s not, it is perfection. This movie scared the hell out of me as a young person watching it. I thought Faye Dunaway was amazing but I HATED the movie because it was too disturbing and traumatic for me. 😔 My brothers and sisters felt the same way.

Sometimes my mom would go on for so long that my brother and I (hiding in our respective closets or just out of her sight) actually would start (giggling silently, of course) at some of the things she was saying. We'd already been terrified and finished crying at that point, so emotionally we were just exhausted...nothing left to do but giggle.

Mommy dearest or Daddy dearest? They used to say this one was so beautiful. How was I so blinded by it all? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fs-FrdRnp5m0aY0.html

Very good point.

I knew a woman like this. She was ostracized at work for being racist and cruel. So everyday she would come home and as soon as the door was closed behind her she would just screeaaammmmm. Then she would lay into her children, screaming at them for every tiny thing. It was awful.

I would get in trouble for not folding the towels right in the cupboard and putting everything in properly. I think people don’t want to admit that it can be a tiny unreasonable thing that can be the final straw for a person that sends them over the edge. I remember one night when we had had a really wild day as a family and I can’t remember now what the problem was but for some reason mom had forgotten to feed us kids dinner. and at bedtime I reminded Mom’s that none of us had eaten and she just looked so defeated that day and I remember her falling to the floor at the foot of my bed and just sobbing. We still didn’t eat that night but that always reminds me that on that one day my mom was totally defeated in whatever had happened that day, and that happens to all of us

I'm so sorry you went through this. My heart aches

My mum would shout at me for hours and shake me and get right in my face screaming just because I burnt food or put the glass on the wrong side of the kitchen or didn't switch off and unplug a socket. I actually ended up feeling so bad about myself I thought I couldn't do anything right and started loathing myself and lost my happy energetic fun enthusiastic self

​@@nightshadow73my mum would often say that whenever she went off on one (screamed and shouted at me) at me it was a straw that broke the camels back due to years of abuse.... By Me!!!!! She actually accused me of abuse several times and that when she goes crazy it's because I drove her to get so mad she acted crazy

Thank you, I was struggling through this video because it seems to be doing (and critiquing Mommie Dearest for not doing) what movies like Dahmer are criticized for- humanizing a monster. Crawford wasn't a serial killer (obviously) but I think there's something really powerful about NOT humanizing the monster, not couching their actions in flashbacks and soliloquies.

@@janine7384 I completely understand how you feel about it! My opinion on the matter is still fairly undecided (I think for me, it depends on the individual person/topic). 🤔 I agree that sometimes a person is simply a massive POS and you don’t need to try “explaining” WHY they’re a massive POS...they just are. I usually feel that way about “small scale” monsters-(someone like Amber heard, for example). And by “small scale” I don’t mean that it’s “not important” and isn’t horribly destructive to those experiencing the nightmare! I simply mean the situations where the abusive madness is typically confined to just one family/household. But with a large scale POS horror (like a hitler level monster) I think it’s really important to “humanize” and show them as normal people. Not to create sympathy for the monsters-but because I think it’s really important for people to remember that monsters don’t just “pop out” of the ether one day and start causing suffering in the world. A monster can come from anywhere, at any time. They were ALL just regular babies like us, little kids like us, they had hopes, dreams, loves, sadness, disappointment, favorite foods, beloved pets(etc.) like us…but somewhere along the nature/nurture line, something went terribly wrong with them. So, I feel like knowing the details involved in creating THAT particular type of monster-might possibly help us all be more aware of how we treat others, or be more aware of how others around us are being treated/acting -and possibly even lead us to better recognizing the warning signs that someone is in desperate need of psychological assistance! Obviously not because we’re likely ever going to find ourselves working alongside the next hitler…but more along the lines of us possibly seeing the warning signs of someone around us, who is angry/violent and about to “snap” and do something terrible to a lot of innocent people. I know that probably all sounds really dumb/weird/grandiose-because the chances of anyone finding themselves in the position of noticing the early warning signs of a dangerous individual (and being able to help at all…) are slim, to none But I figure it’s probably better than just being 100% oblivious, right? 🤷‍♀️ I dunno. Just my late night ramblings I suppose. Lol☺️💗

@@glorygloryholeallelujah stopped reading when you called Amber Heard, a victim of DV with credible allegations, a monster. You should be ashamed of yourself.

@@janine7384 you’re joking-right?🤣

@@glorygloryholeallelujah unlike Johnny Depp stans, I never joke about domestic violence

I grew up with an abusive Stepfather who would do “night raids” similar to What Christina said Joan did. Terrifying for a child

Same here, I also never thought it was that over-the-top or camp because there was a lot of accuracy in the rage. The tiny thing that just comes out of nowhere. And sure, sometimes you're also a bratty shit of a child, but sometimes the anger is way disproportionate to the offense.

Having experienced somethings like the situations the movie depicted I was just petrified the whole movie, got really surprised when I read it was considered campy by some people

@@express999snsd As far as this film goes, I think it comes down to the glamour and fantasy quote. Because the film distracts from the abuse with the Hollywood glamour, and it is clearly more invested in the Hollywood glamour. It never contrasts the two, it makes the abuse seem hyperreal, like it is also just a plotline of a Joan Crawford film and ultimately not real. And people don't want it to be real, because contemplating the idea that a glamourous person in films with sympathetic roles may also have been something other than a saint doesn't gel. No one aspires to be 'the mother of them all'

@@msdisco85 that's good comentary and I like the way you used "hyperreal" to describe it. Now that I finished watching the video I can understand what you mean. It's a Hollywood movie star story that happens to have child abuse.

They don't, but I do.

My mother was in the process of hitting my sister with a fly swatter when the plastic part came off and then the exposed metal part went into my sister's hand. Onetime (driving home from CHURCH, so classic...) We were evidently too loud in the backseat, so my mother was trying to hit us from the front seat with her purse, and gashed my head. My father picked on my older sister relentlessly and one time was hitting her and ripped the earring out of her just pierced ears. My youngest sister came home drunk, years later, and my mother sat on top of her and was beating the crap out of her. My other sister remembers my mother pounding on me, but I don't remember it. Having narcissistic parents is dangerous. And then to cause further trauma, what is going on is ignored, (enabled,) or rationalized "It wasn't that bad." Both of my parents were tyrants, and I was the scapegoat because I knew what was going on was crazy. Onetime they threatened to send me away to school and I begged them to do it. But they didn't. I do find myself grateful, however, that we had a beautiful home, medical care, all the food we could eat, nice clothing...Many advantages growing up that many did not have. However, we weren't really allowed to enjoy it because my parents were damaged people who got progressively worse as they aged. That's what happens as they lose their youth, feel a loss of power and control, see their children poised to gave their own lives. You have to be tough as h*ll to survive narcisstic parents. I believe Christina Crawford. She paid the price for defying her "mother." Joan tried to beat and punish the resistance out of her, I get it. I've lived it.

@@eagleeye2300 yeah then no one believes you when you're older & their dead & not as afraid to explain what happened you sound crazy.

@@jilljohnson9310 I am far from crazy...A survivor... Spiritually guided... And as "dumb as a fox." All to the glory of God.

If our beds weren't made to her standards my mother would rip the whole bed apart and drag the mattresses off onto the floor, ranting and raving and screaming the whole time about what ungrateful littles bitches we were that we didn't care about our beautiful home....and we'd have to remake the bed from scratch as we sobbed in fear. She used to tip all our drawers out of our dressers and closets too and throw all our clothes on the floor with the same ranting and raving. We dreaded room inspections. We were like unpaid maids who couldn't do anything right, but we were just little kids.

Christina wasn't abused and has even lied about being strangled by Joan (the most damning accusation she made about Joan too).

@@Garsons-oq4lh You don't know what you're talking about, you weren't there. You don't get to say what did or did not happen. All you have is what Christina says happened. Stop dismissing abuse just to defend an actress you like, it's beyond pathetic.

@@Mels0103 No you don't. Doubtful you bother to do research and get other perspectives other than Christina's namely Billie Greene. Billie was a former secretary to Joan Crawford (also mentioned by name in Christina’s MD 20th anniversary edition) and here is a quote from her from an unpublished interview done around 1980 “I believe I am quoted to have said something like, “Stop, you’ll kill her.” There was a point where they were having an argument. What precipitated it was possibly one of many misunderstandings. Or where Christina had lied to Joan, and the hostility was getting greater. Joan came towards her and gave her a good swat, and hit her towards the neck area. I remember at one point taking Joan’s arm when it was in midair and saying, “I want you to stop. You’re going to hurt her.” This was not for Christina’s sake. This was for Joan’s sake. No one wants to see anyone out of control. I can tell you that I’d never seen any discipline towards Christina or towards the other children that I would call out of control. There was not brutality that night. Possibly there was rage. I can’t conceive of the distortion, unless Christina had a deep-seated plan, a vendetta that was present even when she was 14. Christina lied often for absolutely no reason." [**Courtesy of ChristinaCrawfordLied site**] So yes Billie admitted to witnessing Christina getting a smack however Christina doesn't write in her book that it was just a smack she wrote a grand story about strangulation. So based on Billie Greene's recollection Christina was not truthful about her most damning accusation against Joan. So if she was untruthful about one thing then what else has she been untruthful about. Also according to Billie there was a pattern of Christina lying.

@@Garsons-oq4lh obsessed much? I've seen your comments and the resource you cite are unreliable. Former employees are certainly able to defend the rich and famous in any circumstance, it's very common, especially with public figures as beloved as she was. Double so especially with the laissez-faire policies on what is considered child abuse for the past and even still today. I fear you might not grasp the lasting effects of trauma you might be dealing with over your own past evident by the typical sign of defending or rationalizing the behavior of an abuser like Christina's. Therapy does help.

@@unitymomentum And I've seen your comments. Who received all the money and notoriety from accusing Joan of being a abuser? Huh? It was Christina Crawford. But Billie Greene some former secretary? What has Billie received? Her interview disputing Christina's strangulation accusation went unpublished. No one dare call out untruths it seems.

It’s camp

@@williammclean5897it’s abuse. And drag artists are the worst

@@bulliboyz Word.

That doesn’t mean that Christina is telling the truth

@@bulliboyz you're the worst, closet case

I actually recommend the book. I do agree it's a ridiculous notion... but Christina has since revised the book with new material and I read it last summer. It was one of my favorite books of 2020--it's a deeply human book and I hate that people have reduced it to a revenge tactic from a bitter, lying child (which many still do, including in these comments) slash associate it with the camp of the movie. She does contextualize her abuse in the 40th anniversary edition and indeed does give Crawford a lot of layers/depth/humanity while trying to understand her abuse. So ironically she did exactly what is being demanded of her, just with later editions (since I'm guessing the original edition lacked the hindsight she was able to add 40 years later).

@@AlexaDonne I had no idea she wrote a new version, I'll check it out, thanks! It makes sense, abuse victims go through layers of grief, some accept and contextualise, some try to forget and not engage with the subject anymore, both are valid. It makes me very angry when people say "she must be lying, that's not the person I knew"... Like wooowww what a revelation, rapists don't rape every last woman they meet, abusers don't abuse every last person they meet. But people feel like "I admire Joan Crawford. If she's an abuser and I admire her, that makes me a shitty person. But I don't want to be a shitty person. So if I just claim her child is lying, I don't have to feel like a shitty person"... Thus making themselves into a shitty person. I also think people are just desperate to believe abuse is rare and Hollywood stars actually are perfect. Kinda pathetic. Thanks for the detailed response. Stay safe in these trying times.

Not to mention SHE is the only one who claims the abuse and every few yrs, she remembers new stuff just in time for a revised book. SMH

If you can’t write then don’t write a book. There are other ways to deal and heal from trauma.

@@AlexaDonne Too little, too late from Christina.

It doesn't...

Me neither.. I haven't seen the entire movie in many years but the clips I have seen while diving deeper into the film online have not made me feel that they are ridiculous to the point of being funny.. To me, Faye is playing an extremely over the top, dramatic diva who is narcissistic to the core and cannot stand anything being out of her control for even a moment. Whether this was true to who Joan really was is not that relevant for me rather it shows what it might be like to live with a truly unstable, narcissistic parent.. I am sure there are kids out there growing up with parents that fly off the wall like Faye/Joan did in the film... And for that I do applaud Faye because you can see her really giving it her all and trying to embody this persona. The only thing I do lament about the movie is that they took a memoir from an abused child's point of view and turned it into a movie that was all about the abuser's point of view. Christina was a side character in her own abuse story.. That's sad..

It was a HUGE exaggeration and Christina herself says so!!! Read my posts above where Christina admits this herself!!!

@@bigbandsrock1 the point is, to many of us this isn't an exaggeration at all. My mother was a total psycho and to this very day admits no wrong doing. She hurt and abused us mentally, physically and emotionally every day and still people side with her. "It's hard to be a mom" is what I hear most. I AM. A mom. I KNOW how hard it is. And it's still not ok what she did. Its not ok that we're all still pretending this doesn't happen every day.

@@bigbandsrock1 Maybe an exaggeration of Joan but what were saying is that the movie isn't that "funny" because over the top as it might be, there are people that actually act like that and go off on their children like Faye portrays. This is some people's reality. That's all we're saying

Mommy dearest was my mom to a fault..

💯🎯

@@ZanePrice-hd5gjsame. It’s honestly like my mom was trying to reenact the movie.

​@@LasPhoenix777 My Mother brought me to Mommie Dearest (and TOMMY) double feature. When I was 6. Four hours later, I left the theater a short 36 year old...

Just because someone (Joan) is accused doesn't mean they're guilty.

@@Garsons-oq4lh if you read my comment, you see I never wrote she's guilty. I just dont doubt she was as bad as she seemed based on my personal experience of a mother quite similar.

@@Garsons-oq4lh you are 100% an abuser

@Garsons2059 Kids don't just lie about this stuff for the fun of it. Narcissists carefully cultivate this 'other'/alter personality to show people in public and especially in their social circles. At home, the switch flips, and they're _completely_ different people. As someone with N family members, it's really, really disorienting...and if you were an altruistic child who was too honest to understand how people could even exercise that duality to such an extreme and come across as wonderful to everyone else, but horribly abusive to you, congrats! That's narcissism for you. People think that the golden child/scapegoat dynamic has to involve more than one child, but the roles can easily be switched on an only child for whom the parent must project these roles. Children who are presented as perfect in front of everyone else, but a f*ck up, a burden, ungrateful, etc. at home.

@@Discodancez WOW. You obviously didn’t read @Barbara Dellis ‘s comment correctly. She was supporting Christina’s description of her mother, as her mother was similar!

Agreed.

Christina Crawford, who said she had nothing to do with the movie, said she disliked it. She said her mother never mentioned wire hangers.

My narcissistic mother could be the twin of Betty Broderick. Mom tore up ALL the family photos after dad divorced her and sent them to Dad in another state. I now have no photos of my late soldier brother. Narc mom also threatened to kill me yesterday. No-one will do anything if I even called the cops. They are worthless and won't put her in a home. They have visited her 3 times in 4 months because of her behavior.

@@bostonblackie9503 Christina has said that her mother would have rages over wire hangers in her closet, but that Joan never hit her with a wire hanger.

It's heart breaking that things like that triggers you. You clearly had a lot of trauma in your childhood. My childhood was far from trauma free, but I was always safe and felt loved behind closed doors. I've always believed that saved my mental health later. I'm sorry you didn't have that! 😢

There's so many comments saying "well her siblings didn't say anything" clearly ignoring one of the most important things to a narcissist is how other people saw them and that narcissists won't abuse across the board because it's not beneficial to them to not have any allies.

Agree. I saw this movie in the 80s as a young child. It was the epitome of my own Mother's behavior. There was no logic in my Mother's behavior. You didn't know why she was acting the way she did. She didn't stop to ever explain herself or give a back story. Lol. She was just a wretched abusive narcissist. She raged about the slightest things. I remember she once had a meltdown because I accidentally dropped a pair of rolled up socks in the floor. I was carrying my laundry to my room and dropped them. She came to my room and started bopping me in the face with the socks. She was yelling about how I didn't respect her. I was probably 10 at the time. It was so crazy and random. So, in my opinion this movie is spot on. I feel for everyone who relates to this movie. So to one survivor to another, I see you, I acknowledge you, and I understand.

The only reason I'm not 100% on the way Joan was depicted in the movie is because Christina herself also says that the portrayal is inaccurate

I also think it’s ridiculous that people looked at the victim’s story (the book) and were like “why didn’t you round out her character” or something about how Christina should’ve provided context. Why were people expecting the victim to humanize their abuser.

Exactly. She pitted the twins against Christina and Chris. The twins were her allies that she treated well and Christina is the main one she hated and treated horrifically. Joan was narcissist and created an image of the perfect mother. She was too perfect to be believed. She only fooled her fans but the assistant and the nanny and most of the men in her life knew what was going on. I met someone just like Joan and I have not spoken to that person in over a decade. She displayed very similar traits and I did not want to be her next victim. Joan wanted fans to cheer her on at home and when she did not get the cheers and the applause after being a monster to them it was their fault.

Right! People forget children are small and defenseless

Camp isn’t simply about the performance, the way it is shot contributes, as well as writing. This movie is definitely camp. I’m not sure why to some that portraying the story and classifying it as camp due to its feel and performances, is a bad thing. The camp, while unintentional, has made it a cult classic, timeless. Also, Christina said the movie wasn’t correct in its portrayal, so let’s stop pointing to her to say it was accurate from her point of view. It is indeed, camp.

For those who had parents that were unstable that could go to extreme on the drop of a dime. By the way, Bette Davis' daughter wrote a book about her and she was depicted as worse than Joan Crawford. "Davis’ biological daughter Barbara “B.D.” Hyman released her own damaging tale, “My Mother’s Keeper,” in 1985. It portrayed the actress as a ruthless bully who faked attempted suicides for sympathy." The entertainment industry attracts narcissistic people. It is almost a necessity to protect them for all the trauma they will have to go through to survive industry.

I agree. It looks like how adult temper tantrums look. They’re stupid and terrifying

you summed it up perfectly. this was exactly my experience with my dad. It’s unreal how childish the anger and temper tantrums are but they were absolutely terrifying for me and I still struggle with feeling like I don’t have control because of it. I’m so sorry you had to endure that as well. I hope that you are safe now

​@sunny-gt7qw that's the thing. You know as a child that this is stupid and idiotic. But you're in terror because you know they can do anything to you

the power of bkr >>

SAME!

Same!

I know it’s weird. I like watching reviews of films I have never seen. I like to think it’s because so I will know if it’s worth my time watching those movies. But actually it’s just that I love good analysis and commentary. 😁

We're in the same boat here. Always planned to see, never did. It's a testimony to the quality of BKR's content, to have me sit for 50 minutes, watchin an essay about a movie i've never seen. Legend.

YES.

Billie Greene -Former secretary to Joan Crawford-unpublished interview “I believe I am quoted [in Christina’s book regarding the strangling incident] to have said something like, “Stop, you’ll kill her.” There was a point where they were having an argument. What precipitated it was possibly one of many misunderstandings. Or where Christina had lied to Joan, and the hostility was getting greater. Joan came towards her and gave her a good swat, and hit her towards the neck area. I remember at one point taking Joan’s arm when it was in midair and saying, “I want you to stop. You’re going to hurt her.” This was not for Christina’s sake. This was for Joan’s sake. No one wants to see anyone out of control. I can tell you that I’d never seen any discipline towards Christina or towards the other children that I would call out of control. There was not brutality that night. Possibly there was rage. I can’t conceive of the distortion, unless Christina had a deep-seated plan, a vendetta that was present even when she was 14. Christina lied often for absolutely no reason. [The book] was a pack of lies that made your hair stand on end. I have utter contempt for Christina.” **Courtesy of ChristinaCrawfordLied**

@@Garsons-oq4lh so she literally just admitted seeing Joan hit her kid and only stopping her not to protect the kid but for her? Do you really not see how fucked up that is ?

@@JanWest24 Well all I know is Yes she admitted to witnessing Christina and Joan in a spat and Christina getting a smack however Christina doesn't write in her book that it was or just a whack SHE wrote that she was STRANGLED by Joan who then had to be pulled off of Christina (not what Billie says). So based on Billie Greene's recollection Christina lied about the most damning accusation she made in that book. If she lied about one thing what else has she lied about. And according to Billie there was a pattern of Christina lying.

More of Billie Greene's quote- "When Christina was at Chadwicks, she would tell some lies. Like the lengths Joan would go through to see that she had everything to get back to school. Shoes, dresses, etc. I don’t know what Christina would do with them between Brentwood and school, but she would arrive with a couple of beat up, old dresses and the call would come from Chadwicks. “Couldn’t you send this girl one decent thing to wear?” I got Christina in my office one day and said, “Christina, what did you do? All those things we picked out and packed and got ready for you that you chose?” She said, “I gave them to my friends,” and I said, “What does this do? Make you a hero with your friends?” and she said, “No, I just wanted to.” I said, “Don’t you know what you do to your mother when you make her look cruel and evil and selfish?” and she said, “No, it’s just something I like to do. I like to give my clothes away.” On more than one occasion I found Christina to be an opportunist, dishonest and distorting everything, every single actions of her mother.” **Credit to ChristinaCrawfordLied**

Oh please Sharon you are blind. Christina lied about the most damning accusation she made in her book which was being strangled by Joan. She lied about one just what else has she lied about. Well she also lied in her book about Joan’s last words spoken to her caregiver. There is no telling what else. And it's called research.

You met her once at a book signing, so of course she SEEMED nice. Plenty of people also thought that her mother was absolutely lovely in every way, although she had issues that contradict what they thought of her as well. However, Christina has absolutely exaggerated her story for profit -she’s been living off the proceeds for over 40 years! Because Joan could be and typically was a lovely woman. Her other daughters absolutely adored her and insisted that she was a wonderful mother. She might have had a more difficult dynamic with Christina, but it isn’t a black and white situation with Christina being totally innocent in spite of Joan’s evil behavior . Christina leaves out all of the privileges and advantages that she was privy to in order to sensationalize the negative things and is far from being entirely on point. I don’t know how anyone can even read “Mommie Dearest” and not be able to perceive the gross exaggerations and outright lies throughout. In fact, the publishers have had to edit out material in several printings because there was easy to debunk untrue information presented as fact that was hurtful to other people who were still alive. It probably couldn’t even get published today because Christina Crawford is hardly a reliable narrator. The memoir might be”her truth” but that’s not necessarily THE truth. She has successfully manipulated the public into seeing her as a beleaguered victim even though “Mommie Dearest” makes the National Enquirer seem like a sophisticatedly factual periodical.

@@serenawilliams6138 it wasn't a book signing it was contact over a number of days. Also, if you haven't lived with a crazy mother you can't comprehend that kind of behavior. I have. If she lied, shame on her. If not, let's give her a break.

@@sharonf468 I have lived with a crazy mother and a crazy father and I do know and I also know what it is like when people don’t believe victims of abuse. However, Christina is not one of them. She is a known liar with a scorched earth agenda. You should watch and read a few accounts of the many people who knew them both at the same time. Nannies, secretaries, business people and family members all have said that Christina is the one making things up. People who also knew Christina professionally have said that she was a nightmare to work with-totally independent from Joan too. I know a stage manager who worked with her who said that she was terrible to work with and didn’t follow directions. They had to fire her. People who lived WITH Joan and Christina have all said that she totally distorted the truth, including all of Joan’s other kids! Even her son’s daughter has come to Joan’s defense. People have told exactly what did happen and Christina is someone who isn’t reliable or trustworthy. She grossly exaggerated things and made mountains out of molehills. I have personally caught her in SEVERAL lies over the years and even as a kid I knew some things she said were untrue. Today I understand it better and think that she is a classic narcissist and she has propped herself up at her mother’s expense. I understand why some vulnerable people who have suffered a abuse still believe her but they have hitched their horse to the wrong wagon. She is not a good example of someone who has suffered and she is vindictive and her book is a deliberate hatchet job.

​@@serenawilliams6138 Thank you for the information. It's a hot button topic on all sides!

I also have to hear "how wonderful" my horrible "mom" was. It really hurts. I feel for you.

My mom is a great Christian mother who has a sweet and giving heart.... to others. And my older brother and younger sister. I was targeted. No one would believe me if I even tried to explain.

​@@katrinafitch3534 i believe u

Yes I felt like a hypocrite when I just nodded or didn’t respond when people said how sweet she was

Ahhh the “too sensitive” phrase is all too familiar and makes me shudder.

I had a similar experience with my mother. I replied, yes mommy dearest. She looked at me with that hate filled expression, and said l, don’t ever call me that. I have tried for over 40 years. I finally gave up a few months ago.

36 years of it myself babe, I’m estranged af, stay strong 💪🏽

I watched it with mine too when I was a kid and she just kept making a joke out of it. I don't even think she realized she was abusive

Love you guys ❤

Welcome to the double-standard that is human opinion

Same if someone only adopts a child for popularity or to improve their career is “exploitation “. Children are not shoes you buy to improve your image with.

That’s true

@@christienelson1437 It kind of depends whose lense you look through though - Joan adopted 4 children to help them and to do the best she could in her eyes whereas in Christina's eyes she did it for money/fame/popularity

@@jonathanhunter8076 True the times and beliefs about adoption and raising children were very different. However, Joan’s lifestyle and lack of experience with children did little to foster a wholesome relationship with the older children. I believe she did a lot better with the younger ones.

So proud of you

It would have been even more satisfying to slap the pure de shit out of him. Now, disown that!

You didn’t deserve to be treated like that but I am glad you are on the path to recovery.

I hope you're finding peace Peggy. I feel your pain. When I confronted my mother about putting me in hospital as a toddler with broken arms and legs, she had the nerve to threaten me with a solicitor. The day she finally committed suicide is the day I began to heal but I will always hear the scars. Love to you

Learn from his mistakes. Be better with your children, I know you will. GOD bless you and your family ……….

Thank you for your comment. I had a similar experience. Everyone thought that my mom was perfect and wonderful. Behind closed doors, she was abusive and cruel.

My dad related to it. And unfortunately some of the breaks, like the shouting of “no wire hangers,” bled into his behavior with me. But my heart goes out to him and his brothers. They lived through all of the “campy, exaggerated” trauma…it’s trauma. My childhood was confusing. Because at the end of the day, that woman who was much like Joan, was my grandma.

Billie Greene -Former secretary to Joan Crawford-unpublished interview 1980 “I believe I am quoted [in Christina’s book regarding the LIE that is the strangling incident] to have said something like, “Stop, you’ll kill her.” There was a point where they were having an argument. What precipitated it was possibly one of many misunderstandings. Or where Christina had lied to Joan, and the hostility was getting greater. Joan came towards her and gave her a good swat, and hit her towards the neck area. I remember at one point taking Joan’s arm when it was in midair and saying, “I want you to stop. You’re going to hurt her.” This was not for Christina’s sake. This was for Joan’s sake. No one wants to see anyone out of control. I can tell you that I’d never seen any discipline towards Christina or towards the other children that I would call out of control. There was not brutality that night. Possibly there was rage. I can’t conceive of the distortion, unless Christina had a deep-seated plan, a vendetta that was present even when she was 14. Christina lied often for absolutely no reason. [The book] was a pack of lies that made your hair stand on end. I have utter contempt for Christina.” *Credit to **#ChristinaCrawfordLied*

I'm sorry that you had to endure that. Sending healing vibes your way

@@Garsons-oq4lh so basically Joan was going to hit her child in the neck but that doesn't count as abuse because the quoting from Christina wasn't accurate huh?

And at the end of the day YOU were not there.

@@ronaldreaganhater6982 Christina Crawford claims in "Mommie Dearest" that she was strangled by Joan Crawford in the summer of 1953. Here is how she describes this incident in her book: "The choking pain of her fingers around my throat met the thudding ache of the blow to the back of my head. She banged my head on the floor, tightening her grip around my throat....I gasped for air and felt myself sinking into unconsciousness as I tried desperately to fight back....If something or someone didn’t help me very soon I was going to die. I tried with the last bit of my strength to struggle free of those choking fingers and managed to wedge one of my knees between her body and mine and push upward on her ribs with my hands which loosened her grip slightly. It at least allowed a trickle of air down my throat and kept me from losing consciousness." This type of physical attack would, no doubt, leave bruises to the neck and throat. However, according to Christina, she had no bruises to the neck or throat, and the bruises she claims to have received to the face were greatly diminished within "a few days." This is what Christina Crawford said regarding her "injuries" after this alleged strangulation: "I had one black eye and a cut on my upper lip that was swollen and covered with dried blood. My whole face was sort of puffy and I had a perfect handprint bruised across one cheek....A few days later I was on my way back to the Chadwick’s house...I still had vestiges of the black eye but the rest of my face had returned pretty much to normal." This claim is medically impossible. Bruises to the face take at least a minimum of 1 to 2 weeks to fade. Perhaps this was a quick rationale by Christina in her book to account for no one seeing these "injuries" after she returned to Chadwicks. By 1988. Christina Crawford claimed in her book "Survivor" that the stroke she suffered in late 1981 was the result of this "strangulation." Christina claimed the strangulation caused an embolism (a blood clot) that blocked the flow of blood to her brain, and this embolism had lied dormant for over 28 years (1953 - 1981) without causing issue before it dislodged and flowed to her brain. This claim, in and of itself, is medically improbably, if not impossible. However, the impossibility is further enhanced when considering that Christina did not even have bruising to her throat from this alleged strangulation. In "Survivor" Christina writes: "In the hospital the doctors questioned me as thoroughly as they could about possible causes of my stroke. They were interested in what might have been a source of original damage to the left carotid artery in my neck since I had no history of high blood pressure or high cholesterol. They asked me about a car accident or a neck injury. I had experienced none. The only incident I could think of was a violent argument my mother and I had when I was thirteen years old. She had been drinking at the time and flew into a rage. I recalled this incident in the book Mommie Dearest, not knowing at the time I wrote about it that I would later have a stroke" This outrageous allegation is further debunked by a 1978 sworn deposition, whereby Christina DENIES knowledge of this incident. Along with a unpublished interview with the secretary (Billie Greene) who was an eye witness the evening Christina claimed this strangulation took place. Greene refuted the claim that Joan strangled or choked Christina. **ChristinaCrawfordLied**

I've also heard you can't negotiate with a crazy person, cause what they see isn't based on reality.

Exactly.

That's nice and all, but Christina is full of crap

@@yeetnama9094 So you were there?

Christina Crawford Lied

I never found t funny, either. I had a great mother but it reminded e of my stepdad and step mother.

@@seameology I’m sorry that it mirrored anything you had to deal with irl. I was lucky in that regard.

So sorry to hear what you suffered. I suffered in childhood too. Took me 20 years of therapy to heal.

I watched it with two friends - one thought it was hilarious, the other was horrified. I found it pretty triggering and would never watch it again.

I was adopted and abused by a narcissist mother. This movie was all too real. I personally feel like the actress of Christina kinda sucked.

@@DylanRomanov I’ve always wondered why certain people actively seek to adopt a child only to subject them to physical/verbal abuse, as if they didn’t want them. I guess narcissism and the idea of having someone who “needs” them (ie a child) makes a lot of sense

@@pivotb5691 That’s exactly what it was . I had to clean at midnight before as a child . They want the image of a perfect family and they start to crumble when kids can’t live up to their expectations. I do believe my adopted mother has love for me but she doesn’t know how to communicate without being back handed or judge mental.plus I’m a extremely sensitive man and the physical abuse I haven’t been able to deal with. As with Joan me my mother they were not monsters but they could be down right cruel and I feel like intent or not, it still fucks up a child. With that being said I’m still a huge fan of Joan and Faye. They were all very strong women during a time when they had so many closed doors and limitations. They mastered their craft and made a mark on the entertainment business. I definitely respect a hard worker, and a go-getter. But when you decide to have a family you must sacrifice the need to be on top all the time. Parenting is all about patience , being vulnerable, gentle, firm at times , and most importantly a GUIDE to this vast world around them. People forget that children usually think and act just like them. They can’t handle the brutal honestly and lack of control when it comes to the child. They see them as an extension of them instead of a fully bodied human who has the right to do whatever they desire. Parents are way too controlling when it comes to a child’s interests or being allowed to have separate opinions from them. I’m 28 and I’ve seen my adoptive mother maybe 5 times in 11 years. Her “image” and her need to be in control has forced me to stay away. She’s really sick I’m the hospital right now and I just feel so many emotions about possibly losing her. I’m like deeply sad but a fucked up part of me feels like I’ll finally be mentally free from her. Which I feel terrible to even say that.

Maybe a combination of narcissism and borderline personality disorders. My mom was diagnosed a paranoid schizophrenic but I think she was undiagnosed borderline from what I've learned about that disorder. She was a volatile person to be around and anything could set her off or nothing for that matter. I have a sister whose a lot like her.

It is camp. It's camp because it's written by a bitter little girl who wanted to bad mouth the woman who left her out of her will.

@Natalie I'm sorry for your diagnosis because BPD is very difficult to deal with. I'm not sure what you mean by "extra". My sister is a diagnosed BPD who has refused to acknowledge this for many years and yet it drives her life and behavior. I find her difficult to be around because she reminds me so much of my mother and I feel like I have to walk around on eggshells when she's around so that something doesn't set her off, just like my mom. So I just don't go around her which I feel is fair for me because when I was a child I didn't have that choice. I do now. While I can have empathy for people with this diagnosis, I can have empathy for myself having been traumatized by this behavior and allow myself to not be around people who are volcanic as this is difficult for me. You have acknowledged your diagnosis. That is the first step to working on it and dealing with it. I truly wish you the best. I wish my sister would but I can't make anybody do anything but I can protect myself. Good luck to you.

Agreed. Pathologically narcissistic people are generally disastrous parents. This type of personality was not designed to be a caretaker. The needs of other people don't matter to them and the feelings of others are nonexistent. They are callous, selfish, cruel and indifferent. Children raised by narcissistic parents are haunted by the idea that they are not good enough and that they must be perfect in order to be loved. They are plagued by the idea that people will abandon them and that nobody can be trusted. They are allowed no security, no safety, no boundaries. They are simply tools for the narcissistic parent to use in whatever manner they deem necessary. How the narcissistic parent treats the child or children depends on what they are using the child for. For example, children that exist to showcase what a wonderful parent the narcissist is will often seem to be treated very well in public or in front of people, and there will be pressure on these children to perform perfectly in front of others. Performing badly or making mistakes will usually be taken very personally by the narcissist, and the child is often accused of embarrassing the narcissistic parent on purpose. Children that exist to provide unconditional love and acceptance to the narcissistic parent are treated like dolls on a shelf, to be used only when the narcissist needs them and ignored the rest of the time. Most children perform both of these functions and many others as well, all in the service of the narcissistic person's ego. The child's needs, personality and identity are often ruthlessly stomped out in an attempt to replace it with the narcissist's own. The child is not allowed to have boundaries or to be their own person. They exist only to service the narcissistic parent's ego and have no other use. This applies to spoiling the child, too, by the way. Children are usually spoiled for the same reason they are beaten: because the parent has a need that they are satisfying by using the child to do it, and it cannot be said enough that spoiling a child is abuse. Narcissistic parents may alternately spoil and ignore a child, which may leave the child unable to ascertain what behavior is appropriate, with difficulty understanding consequences, feelings or how to relate to other people because the reactions they receive are widely inconsistent. It is not uncommon to hear people say things like, "My wife was a wonderful mother at first," or "My brother was good to his children when they were babies." This is because it is easy for a pathologically narcissistic person to have positive feelings for something that does not challenge, threaten or contradict them, something that cannot reject or abandon them. This is why many narcissistic people seem to have positive feelings for animals, for instance. Children are easy to control. Animals are easy to control. They don't assert their own needs in a threatening way and for a time will love you unconditionally, no matter what you do to them. When the child gets older and starts to assert their independence and individuality or starts challenging the narcissistic parent, this will often change. The parent feels rejected by the child and offended by the child's individuality. If they blame the other parent, they will accuse the parent of turning the child against them somehow. They will often do what they can to control the child and try to turn the child against the other parent, in the misguided and toxic belief that they will win the competition they believe they are in for the child's love and admiration. If they blame the child, they will often shame, humiliate and abuse the child as punishment. This can be devastating to a child, especially because sometimes this happens when the child is still a toddler or very young. The child - who is still little more than a baby - is used to all of the parent's attention and love but now gets ignored, pushed away and denied. The golden child/scapegoat dynamic often comes in to play around the time independence shows up if there is more than one child, with the less difficult or less disappointing child being cast as the golden child. This is the child chosen to represent the narcissistic person's triumphs and successes. This child often seems to be treated very well. The child that is more difficult or disappointing somehow will often be cast as the scapegoat. This is the child that is forced to take the blame for everything that goes wrong. This child is generally treated very badly, sometimes by the entire family at the narcissist's direction. It's important to remember too that a narcissist can feel rejected by the child at any time, even when the child is a baby. A baby that cries too much or that needs too much can inspire resentment and rejection in a narcissistic parent. A narcissistic parent that pictured themselves angelically rocking their sweet bundle to sleep to the adoration of others can be very upset and disappointed in a screaming, shrieking, needing baby that does not love them as they imagined. There is also the issue that narcissistic parents often do not understand that there is a difference between themselves and a child, regardless of the child's age. They may compare themselves to children, even very young children, and say things like it isn't fair that the three year old doesn't get yelled at for being careless but they do, or that the four year old gets more consideration than they do, or that you are treating the 10 year old better than you treat them. They often don't seem to understand that the expectations for children and adults are different. They may believe they are being treated unfairly because of this, or they may expect children to behave like little adults and punish them if they do not do so. This is the kind of thing that really makes people wonder if there is something wrong with this person and the answer is yes. There is. When there is a narcissistic parent, the child will never matter any more than the narcissist wants them to matter. They are inconsequential if the narcissist needs something that does not involve them. If children are considered to be in the way by a narcissistic parent, they may even be in danger. Consider the cases of Susan Smith and Diane Downs, who killed their children because they believed the children were preventing relationships with the men they wanted to date. Consider the unborn child of Scott Peterson, who was killed because he wanted to be rid of his wife and did not want to be bothered with the way a child would complicate that. Consider the words of Casey Anthony, who faced trial for the murder of her 2 year old daughter Caylee. While in jail, Casey was recorded speaking to someone who was trying to reassure her that her friends and family were on her side. Casey's words were, "No, they're not. They just want Caylee back. That's all they're worried about, is getting Caylee back." Anyone interested in a very clear portrait of a pathologically narcissistic person should look into that case. Casey Anthony is, in many ways, a text book example. In the end, sad as it is, the way narcissistic people relate to children is no different than how they relate to anybody else. Their children exist to fulfill their needs and for nothing else. If the child does not succeed in this task or has needs of their own that the narcissist is threatened by, they will be abused, punished and even discarded by the narcissist without a second thought. No one is safe from a pathologically narcissistic person. They are disastrous parents and abusive, neglectful caretakers.

@@aliross2720 What you say say is so real and true: my mom was exactly like this.

Think about it. Christina provided no witnesses to corroborate her claims (that are within her book). For example, Christina made the accusation that Joan nearly strangled her to death (in June 1953) if not for someone in the house that day to stop it. Christina put a name to this woman in her 20th anniversary edition as Billie. At no point on any of Christina's many television interviews did she offer this woman (in person on stage, as a call-in, or even a signed written anything from her) as a witness to corroborate her claim. There was also no solo print or television interview from this woman corroborating Christina's claim either. *This woman had worked for Joan and was not dead in 1978* Also of note is that Christina made no accusation of violence in her 1960 interviews with Redbook magazine and Mike Wallace, nor in her 1978 court documents contesting Joan's will.

Yep, same. A step mom

Fuck man i remember my mom coming Into my room in the middle of the night to kick my ass for no reason .......she's better now many years later lol

Oh wow, that is awful So sorry that u guys had to go through that

@@ceceoo3 hey it builds character man. But thanks

I'm so sorry you went through that! A dear friend of mind has night terrors bc of her mother. I haven't spoken to mine in about 12 yrs and mine wasn't half as bad as Joan. I hope you are doing well❤

I don’t know that version. What does that mean?

@@lalat5899 during the promotion of A Star is Born, Gaga would repeatedly say (about Bradley Cooper) "There can be 100 people in a room and 99 of them don't believe in you but all it takes is one and it just changes your whole life…"

@Ramón Jurado Borrero you’re straight, aren’t you?

@Ramón Jurado Borrero relax, it’s just a comparison with no bad feelings.

@Ramón Jurado Borrero The similarity is that both women had a cheesy “canned response” (for lack of a better word) they used repeatedly during interview tours. Of course they aren’t the only celebrities who have repeated the same line in multiple interviews, but Gaga’s line became a meme, which is why the OP thought of during the Faye montage.

And so your story PROVES Joan Crawford abused her children.

Same here.

I’m so sorry to hear you experienced an abusive childhood 😞 I hope you’re in a far better place now

Wow, I just finished the book and as someone born and adopted in the 90’s I was so frustrated. I’m so sorry you went through this, you are worth much more and deserved much better. These days you WILL be supported if you want to talk about it, we younger folks are ready to talk about it if/when you are and we support you. 💙

Same as a child that suffered abuse in the 90s and 00s!

- Shawn, I'm so sorry that you too experienced abuse as a child. I have made some sort of peace with my abusers, but it has taken me far too many years to get there. I watched this movie with my Mom. It most definitely was good to see her sympathize with Christina. That was good enough for me in the moment. I do hope you have found some peace now as well. Children deserve so much better. ♥️

@@toiwilliams1582 same here :,( I suffer from PTSD from it. I can’t psychically watch this movie because of it. I have to pause this video so I can read the comments. We’re in this together ❤️

Ironic, isn’t it?

,,thatz RIGHT.period

Joan Crawford said that in "Conversations with Joan Crawford" by Roy Newquist not in her book "My Way of Life".

@@thomassperduti4500 "Furthermore, it has been stated that Crawford's secretary, Betty Barker, claimed to have no records of any appointments Newquist ever had with Crawford, and no records of any interviews he conducted. This Webmaster can confirm, from first-hand knowledge, that Newquist's name is not within either of Crawford's voluminous telephone directories from the 1960s and 1970s. The fact remains there are no aspects contained within this book that were not previously told, or alluded to, in Joan's own autobiography "A Portrait of Joan," or Bob Thomas' biography, thereby making this book very easy to have manufactured from prior published sources. I have personally interviewed Newquest's children, who refer to their father as an alcoholic "con artist." I wholeheartedly contend this book is completely fraudulent." www.theconcludingchapterofcrawford.com/biographies.html The quote was probably made up.

@@vih6650 well, and so your wrong! Again Conversations with Joan Crawford is the Technicolor Spectacular of all the books written about Joan and its much, much to late to try and change this consensus after decades of authors and critics agreeing.

yes, several scenes triggered me 2.

LMAO

😭😭😭

Oscar for best comment goes to

This is genius

AAAAHHHH iconic

Oh goodness, I was worried it was going to end much worse. Still not good to do to your little kid. Sorry he did that hon, I know drunk parents are scary.

By the time I came along in the 80’s, my grandfather was sober. He was a character, extremely rough around the edges but a wonderful grandfather. Very confusing for me bc I started to pick up on my mother and uncles’ animosity and downright disdain for him when I was pretty young. I spent many weekends with my grandparents as my parents were both working full time and attending college at night. I remember my mom picking me up when my grandma was out. At 7/8 years old I couldn’t understand that my mom didn’t say a word to my grandpa and he would say things like “Thanks for letting Mandy stay the weekend, we had a great time.” Rarely say responded with “yep” or “ok” at best. Over the years I witnessed the same dynamic between my grandpa and uncles. It was SO confusing bc here was this man that picked me up from school and took me to the zoo, the park etc. He always had a “treat” or “prize” for me and as I got older bought me things my parents couldn’t afford. When I did hear my mom and uncles talk to my grandpa they were “curt” and at times downright rude. Finally I asked my mom why she “didn’t like grandpa?” She explained that he was much different as a grandfather than father. She went on to tell me all that mattered was he was a wonderful grandpa. I felt very torn, that’s a strange dynamic for a kid. Finally I started understanding the conversations I overheard. My uncles and Mom often making comments to my grandma that it was great he sober but she should’ve gotten him sober while they were growing up. They all referred to him as “the old man” and I heard them talking about how miserable of father he’d been the older I got. Finally as a teen I got angry. I started confronting my mom. If he was such a “horrible father”, why had he been allowed to babysit me? Furthermore why was he nothing but kind to me and my brother? At 16/17 you have the wherewithal to know someone isn’t just a monster for decades to all of a sudden become a good person. Finally I learned the whole truth, he was in active alcoholism as a father. Barging in their bedrooms at all hours drunk, reciting Bible versus. He would crank up chamber music at 2, 3, 4am and make his kids get out of bed to “appreciate” the music with him. Apparently he was a verbally abusive drunk as well. When I was born he was active in his sobriety. Even volunteering through his AA group to spend time doing outdoors activities with at risk teens. Teens that lived in alcoholic homes. I realized he had tried to make amends to my mom and uncles and was giving them their space. He was respecting the fact they weren’t ready to start repairing their relationships. It must have been a miserable childhood bc my mom and uncles never did give him a chance as an adult parent in active sobriety. I think it was too painful for them. The emotional abuse must have been pretty heinous. My mom was very emotional when he died. I was a HS senior and actually disrespected my mom. Telling her she hated him and to quit crying. I even told her she had no right after “treating him like sh@t my entire life.” Finally the whole truth, she got mad as hell and told me she loved him for being so good to me and my brother. She just couldn’t get past the years of hell experienced when he was drinking. I finally started to try and understand (as much as possible) what she’d been through. Even though they never had a relationship, I think her way of “forgiving” him was allowing him to be a grandpa to her kids. Sadly, even with 15 plus years of sobriety the damage had been done physically. He died at 65 years old, his liver wasn’t working properly, heart damage etc all caused by years of drinking alcoholically. It’s amazing how much children of alcoholics suffer. Many for life. It’s sad his kids never wanted a relationship with him. I don’t judge them though, obviously being raised by an alcoholic must be hell that affects people for life. I think my mom made her peace with him seeing him work so hard in recovery and allowing him to be a very active grandpa to her kids. 20 years later if his name comes up she always says she’s grateful we experienced a completely different person. Sorry, for writing a novel. My grandma died yesterday so all these memories are coming forward. It’s sad my nom and uncles were affected for life by the disease of alcoholism. It’s sad to read your comment and others about alcoholic parents behaviors. I’m sorry you had to experience abusive behaviors from an alcoholic father. I hope he eventually got sober. Most of all I hope you’re healing from the effects of alcoholism. A lot of people don’t realize it’s a family disease and often affects children of alcoholics for life.

@@amandanegrete1306 I hear you.

@@amandanegrete1306 Hi Amanda, thanks for sharing your story. I feel like I have the same story as your mom except my father is not sober and has made no attempt to be part of my sons life. His only grandson. pride will stop a lot of things but it didn’t stop your grandpa for being in your life and changing his life. I feel for your mom... have some compassion with her and patience with her especially during this time. She’s gonna need your right now especially since he’s gone. I’m sure she has a lot to think about. Till this day whenever I’m around a drunk man who seeks hostile I get PTSD. I just shut down and wanna leave the room.I never want my kids to go through this and feel of me. I struggle morally if I could ever do what your mother did and let him in my sons life... what she did was big of her, even if she talked shit the whole way. She didn’t have to give him the chance but she did for your sake more so than him I can guarantee you that.

@@amandanegrete1306 Thank you for sharing your story. I can relate to your parents story and like you said unfortunately a lot of people can because it is so common. Not just alcoholism but a myriad of other ways that parents can't be there for their children because of the trauma they had in their lives. I hope your mom got some help with those issues of growing up in an alcoholic home. I'm grateful I've had the opportunity to work on my issues as well through a 12 step program called ACA. Even as a stepson these issues will filter down and effect you as well. They say you either pass it back or pass it on.

I hope your days are mostly peaceful.

Legends only.

I thank you for doing that

I can't believe I haven't been paying proper attention to the first drag queen I had ever heard of. I remember reading about her in the 80's - it was either Time or Rolling Stone Magazine.

Who's next? Matthew Martin on Bette Davis?

Iconic

It’s a cultural reset

Oh! I did not even check the time! I see BKR, I click.

A new standard, I hope!

50 minutes?! Damn, I guess I'll watch it in the morning lol

And it’s so well done, Bravo 👏

Lmmmfaoooooooooooooooo! Gotta watch it now

You are so right. It is the true American Horror Story when you see your traumatic childhood play out on tv😢

I don't know how anyone could consider this a comedy!

You’re absolutely correct

Glad I wasn't the only one feeling exactly the same

@Kakashi In CHRISTINA CRAWFORD'S memoir "Mommie Dearest" she wrote of an incident whereby she ALLEGES Joan Crawford strangled her after she returned home from boarding school for summer vacation in June 1953. When Christina wrote of this allegation, she stated Joan had "a look in her eyes that will never be erased from my memory." After this ALLEGED altercation, Christina was sent immediately back to boarding school. Christina published "Mommie Dearest" in October 1978. Nearly simultaneously to her writing this FRAUDULENT memoir, Christina was court ordered to be questioned in an UNDER-OATH deposition by Joan Crawford's estate in February 1978. During her UNDER-OATH, court-ordered deposition, Christina is specifically questioned about this incident, to which she responded: "I don't know what you are referring to," and continues to evade the questions regarding this incident. In addition to Christina's complete, on the record, CONTRIDICTION of this event, the EYE-WITNESS to this event came forward to confirm Christina LIED in her book. That EYE-WITNESS is Billie Greene, She was Joan's assistant at the time. Greene stated in her unpublished interview: "I believe I'm quoted as saying 'Stop, you'll kill her."...I can tell you that I've never seen any discipline towards Christina or the other children that I would call out of control. There was not brutality that night." (Greene's full interview is in-depth and REVEALING) *Credit to ChristinaCrawfordLied facebook.*

Thankfully my mom was kind & loving. My father was & still can be, a monster. Kakashi, I feel for you & others, who are victims of abuse, like myself. To everyone attacking Kakashi on here. He was stating how Faye's performance reminded him of his own abusive mother. He wasn't stating that everything Christina Crawford wrote was the honest to god truth, he was relating childhood pain. He doesn't deserve to be attacked for this.

May God help you and your sister to have a better life at this time your mother will I guess I shouldn't say anything bad because she is your mother but be blessed and safe all the way from Baton Rouge Louisiana 2021

I have a... complicated? relationship with my mum. She's been abusive & she's been amazing. She was abused by a mum she saw the same way. I feel broken still. My mum took me to see this in theatres when I was 5. She defended Joan & Christina alike. My mum has apologised for narcissism & psychologically invalidating me. She's apologised for corporal punishment. She also forgets she's apologised & then treats me terribly all over again. I love her & I spend so much time trying to get her to love me the way she loves the idea of who she imagines I ought to be. I'm truly a broken woman. XO & love to all.

@@Garsons-oq4lh And.....?

Dear good, are you cruel! Get some professional help to deal with your problems, and that is for once a very seriously meant recommendation and not an attempted insult.

So sorry for your terrible childhood I can see that you have overcome this and what a victory for you. Your best revenge is to have a happy life!!

Once in the 8th grade my mom slapped me across the face because she didnt like my hair. That was the first time she ever hit me in the face. I punched her right in the mouth so it was also the last time she ever hit me. When I tell people that they always act indignant and say "I would never hit my mom" but I would just challenge them to live with mine for a week.

Oh my goodness, just read what you wrote and am so sorry your parents treated you like this .. 😞 .. heartfelt condolences .. God bless you 🙏😊

I agree! Past abuse and trauma aside. I remember the axe scene like no ones business. My brother and I used to joke and call our mom “Mommie dearest”. If we did tho you had to be ready to run. Lol we quote the movie to each other all the time now. I watched it a couple months ago just to do it. And it’s one I wouldn’t rewatch again for a couple of years lol

An aspect of gay culture is taking something - and sometimes even something that causes us great harm - and turning it into something else. Something that we can own. A lot. And I mean a LOT. of us have mothers who see our femininity in childhood as weakness and reflective of their own personal failures. It's fucking weird tbh but we don't have to get all into that lmao. Point is - I personally think that the audience of gay adult men who were watching this movie in the 1980s, especially after they had started to really face the collective trauma in films like Boys In The Band, they took this trauma of childhood and laughed at it. Maybe part of the laughter was to heal. And maybe they were also laughing at themselves. Look at this clown of a monster my memories have painted. This isn't a real person and it can't harm me anymore. So pass the fuckin' night creme, Joan and bring me the axe!

@@clarkrogers7789came here to leave a comment asking if anyone else thought it was weird that we took someone's trauma and made a joke out of it. (Like pls tell me those drag performances didnt involve people hitting dolls resembling Christina Crawford with wire hangers.) But I suppose your points ate very profound. I too am a trans woman living with my own mommie dearest in quarantine and I guess I ca ser the funny here. Cant say I wasnt laughing at "DONT FUCK WIT ME FELLAHS!" but I was also crying at the hair cutting scene... definently viewed this film much differently than most.

Movies about child abuse read different to children or even young teenagers. Mommie Dearest was terrifying to watch as child. Which is why I disagree with this "camp" and "not about Christina" takes. Dunaway is terrifying in the same way a horror movie villain is terrifying. You don't get an insight into the monster of "It Follows" sad childhood or complex psyche, they just come at the undeserving protagonists fully formed with deadly intent, inevitable, inescapable, not to be reasoned with. The question is not if they pop up, just when and how. Dunaway flips out over the wire hangers, it's pretty close to a jump scare. Not because it's surprising that she would flip out (it's not) but because the movie posits that it is inevitable that she will. It also makes sense that the movie is a laundry list of episodes and a flat portrait of Crawford, because that's why you remember your childhood and your parent when you're a kid. Your childhood doesn't have an arc and your parents and their decisions are incomprehensible and all-powerful. If Mommie abuses you over something that should be unimportant or even benign, then there is nothing you can do. Abusive parents are inevitable in their abuse, inescapable and not to be reasoned with. To an audience more likely to identify with the child character , Dunaway's Joan is the metaphor squared - the horror movie villain that isn't just the metaphor but also the real thing.

For real. My parents would get so ridiculously violent over the most trivial things, like bringing them the wrong fork. So when I saw the no wire hangers scene, I was like, shit, that’s accurate. I was very surprised to find out people find this funny.

she would IF it was today

Faye should've been hung out to dry for the ruination of a great stars legacy (yes, the movie was more a nail in Joan's coffin than the book). Faye should've also been hung out for that Oscars gaffe a few years back when she announced the wrong film. That she looked at the card saw Emma Stone La La Land and still read La La Land is just mind-boggling. She couldn’t have been that blind.

She’s really good as one of those crazy a-type people who has to have everything just so. I don’t get the reviews where they say she has no humanity,but also I guess some people have never been terrorized by a narcissist or have dealt with that volatile surreality of dealing with that sort of person. I mean the behavior is so beyond the realms of what is inappropriate that the reaction when you’re divorced from it is to laugh, but when that person has power over you they get to set what’s appropriate even when they’re obviously and outlandishly wrong, and having that as your reality is bizarre in a way most people who haven’t been abused can appreciate or really understand.

@roter13 , The roll of Joan Crawford aka Mommie Dearest , almost killed Faye Dunaway's, acting career forever and It did for years.

@@wingatemose1182 it's a far cry from Bonnie n Clyde

She was. Amazing !! N Joan Crawford. Was so beautiful !!

Agreed.

Exactly, Joan was camp, and I bet she acted just like that in real life. Most of her "acting" is just her being herself, great actress but you can tell she was a dramatic, manipulative person.

Only late in her career, as in post-Baby Jane late in her career, did she really become camp, with roles in Strait Jacket, Berserk, The Karate Killers, and Trog. Some of her performances in the 30s through arguably the mid 50s come off as extremely natural and modern. Grand Hotel, The Women, Strange Cargo, A Woman’s Face, Mildred Pierce, Humoresque, Johnny Guitar, The Story of Esther Costello, etc. I’d hardly call those “camp”

@@heywoodjablome7535 Her early stuff before she was polished was very over the top.

@@LeolaGlamour I suppose you could say that, like in her pre-code stuff like “Paid”, “Rain”, and “This Modern Age”, and a few others that came after it like “The Gorgeous Hussy” (ugh), but I think for the most part her career wasn’t very campy. If anything, while I do think she was the superior actress between the two, Bette Davis had more roles that I’d consider camp.

Even Mildred Pierce is high camp. I've seen plenty of interviews with Joan. She was indeed The Queen of Camp 24/7.

Whilst I agree with your grading of the film, I believe for most people it's a contextual thing. The film resonated with victims of domestic abuse and the "camp-ness" or exaggerated nature of the perfomance would seem almost parody to those who had never been exposed to this in real life. In that way, it most certainly is a masterpiece; understood for its subject and misunderstood for its execution.

They portrayed narcissism in the most accurate way possible, imo.

Right. As a kid my mom and I watched it together and I thought the acting was amazing. I still feel that way. I was surprised to find out it was trashed when I got older.

Me too

I have never understood the degree of notoriety of this film. I have always considered it an epic dissertation on Hollywood, the victimization of women, an essay on star pathology, and deeply misunderstood by critics and camp-purists alike. I love camp: give me about 10 minutes (no more, please!) of Maria Montez, or a good, if brief sketch on The Bad Seed. But I don't see it here; I never did. A much maligned movie - whenever it appears on a Worst-Of lists, it automatically signals to me the essential ignorance of the list author. Faye Dunaway may or may not have been a problematic, bullying, mean-spirited, spoiled actress; Joan Crawford may or may not have been violent and mentally ill; either actress may or may not be a monster. But to assign the ambiguity of our response to their admitted problems, illnesses, weaknesses and flaws, and somehow arrive at the conclusion that "Mommie Dearest" is a "bad movie" or a "camp classic" is simply wrong-headed and simple-minded. This essay, I believe, attempts to parse the question, but is not entirely successful. It's no shame to come to the conclusion that everyone who sees this movie simply as bad filmmaking or a camp comedy is mistaken. It's no shame to state that the movie is far, far better than its detractors insist. Nothing against Lypsynka. A girl's gotta make money, I guess. Like Crawford and Dunaway.

The shady sound from drag race played in my mind at that moment

Most people have never lived a life with abuse like this. I think the film is absolutely wonderful and I believe Christina told her truth, but I can understand why people find it quite campy.

I thought she was pretty fantastic, especially while keeping up with Faye in those harrowing battle scenes.

Roger Yeah but Faye also wrote her own book, she's going to be bias in her account of events.

Keep in mind that the razzies, at that time, was just one guy's Oscar night party with friends. I don't think they'd pull that today since it's an actual "institution".

goldie. That scene where *Joan Crawford* just flung all of Christina's clothes from her closet to the floor and told her to pick them up. She may have been a great actress but not as a human being!

@@jordanabeaulieu2530 Joan Crawford didn't di that... Faye Dunaway did

Because Christina has spent her life living off a dead woman. I wish she had taken some of her money that she got from suing her sisters, and her many "anniversary " mommie dearest books and seen a psychiatrist. She needs help.

@@angelcitygirl I mean, this bitterness doesn't just foster itself. I think if more people cared about Christina when it counted, she'd be in a much more stable place where she could move on with her life.

@THISIS THEGIRL That's a big claim you should probably back up with evidence...

that's because people are star fuckers and they dont care. i mean, rather than empathize with the kids claims, people defended michael jackson for years. that's just one of countless examples too. just a very extreme one

@@angelcitygirl Girl, if my abusive mom was a big name figure, you better believe I'd write an public expose too. And, hey, if I could make some money on the traumatic abuse I suffered as a kid, I'd already be doing it.

Christina Crawford Lied

@@ChristinaCrawfordLied yes, that's your username, we got it

@@theinvisibleme4104 Doesn't seem that you do.

@@ChristinaCrawfordLied get help

@@-redacted2554 I don't need help because I'm not a complete moron...

Yes, what happened between the movie Joan and Christina was abusive and cruel.

Hugs, praying for u ! God bless u!

@Stephanie, I’m so sorry you had a mom like that! YOU not only survived, but from your comment seem to be a kind and caring person. I’m so glad you were able to escape that life. You’re a strong woman.

It really bothers me how so-called feminists use feminist terminology to safeguard abusive women. Joan Crawford is no hero for women, there are a lot of women who came from nothing and became stars and didn't abuse their kids.

They defend Joan because a lot of what happened from this story is not true.

She was a warrior in Hollywood. She was also a terrible mother.

It’s better than her role in “SuperGirl” that came shortly after this; course that still isn’t her doing because the script for said superhero movie isn’t very good

I think faye dunaway is still alive

@@jessyjulie5506 she is, but the 80s was the peak of her career.

Thing Is Public Didn't Want To See Joan Crawford According To The Book "Mommies Dearest" They Don't Think Of Celebrities As. People I Didn't Know They Think Of There Celebrities As Property Even In Death Less Im Wrong

She’s a nasty woman in person though - yuck - I met and once and ughhh - icky. No way Jose ! I can’t stand the energy there! Totally negative and creepy

My heart goes out to you.

💓

I always believed Christina and felt bad for the flack she caught for telling her truth.

Ditto

Sorry to hear you had a traumatic childhood

Billie Greene -Former secretary to Joan Crawford (and who is mentioned by name by Christina in one of her MD anniversary editions) "When Christina was at Chadwicks, she would tell some lies. Like the lengths Joan would go through to see that she had everything to get back to school. Shoes, dresses, etc. I don’t know what Christina would do with them between Brentwood and school, but she would arrive with a couple of beat up, old dresses and the call would come from Chadwicks. “Couldn’t you send this girl one decent thing to wear?” I got Christina in my office one day and said, “Christina, what did you do? All those things we picked out and packed and got ready for you that you chose?” She said, “I gave them to my friends,” and I said, “What does this do? Make you a hero with your friends?” and she said, “No, I just wanted to.” I said, “Don’t you know what you do to your mother when you make her look cruel and evil and selfish?” and she said, “No, it’s just something I like to do. I like to give my clothes away.” On more than one occasion I found Christina to be an opportunist, dishonest and distorting everything, every single actions of her mother.” **ChristinaCrawfordLied**

@@Garsons-oq4lh So you believe a no doubt well paid employee who would want to continue their work and upkeep their reputation among Hollywood royalty over that of an abused child who told a story that countless other abused children have related to for decades? Shame on you.

@@Courtanie So cute of you. The interview was long after the fact in 1980! Billie (a she) was only employeed for a year or two around the time of 1953. Again Billie is mentioned by her first name in Christina’s later anniversary edition of MD so good luck arguing she was a made up person.

​@@Garsons-oq4lhThe dude didn't even refer to Billie as a he

my mom had her nice, charming persona, but growing up, she verbally and physically abused my sibling and I. I don't feel the pain from the beatings anymore, but the hurtful things she said is a different story ....she did not care how much her words hurt us, and she showed no concern for our feelings. Not sure if that makes her a sociopath or a narcissist, but she's cruel.

Narcissistic people desperately need help.

@V J wow. 81. Seems remarkable. Time passes for all, I guess.

However in-human they may seem, at one point or before the tipping point they were as you call simply “human!” It’s more what exactly caused them to become this way is what is appealing and actually mutually exclusive to their humanity!

That's the point of the discussion around the book, was Joan really like that or was it revenge. I used to take the movie and book as fact until I read comments from co-stars, co-workers and people who knew her personally and I was left wondering how much of it was true and how much of it was Christina trying to get even. Having an emotionally abusive mother myself I used to be angry with her and resent her a great deal until I became older and more mature and could recognize the damage her own abusive childhood did to her and how it reflected in her raising me.

@@harperstacey9604 aha

Lmao!!

Pass the cheese and wine

That staircase.

@@VJ-lo2pp, and the bathroom/closet.

The pool, backyard and landscape, her bedroom and closet alone!!!! ... simply breathtaking 🤤🤤🤤🤤

Art deco entry & living room was to die for😍😍😍😍😍😍

And the front door was just dreamy! The window pane in the wire hanger scene, loved it! The bar in the living room just yummy!

cathy killed herself but u wont hear anything bout that

sorry correction Cindy

@@sandrasorice8455 theres literally no evidence that cindy crawford killed herself unless you have some 14 year old evidence to prove it? and if she did then why wouldnt cathy say anything even though she only died last year

@@jonathanhunter8076 how do u no it was 14 yrs ago

@@sandrasorice8455 because all records show that cindy died in 2007?

I’m so sorry. Seems us Dallas kids at that time had a lot of shit to go though. (You know, Joan was from Texas and had a really dark upbringing too). My father was more like Joan than my mother, and it was fucking hard, especially being a small child from Mesquite. I feel you deeply. 💗

@V J Karma is very real. And it's alive, coming into people's lives around the clock.

You should write a book. Seriously.

🙏

We should team up and write that book together. My childhood was a living hell as well. Haven't spoke to my mother in almost 40 years and I've never missed her.

You said it!!! Everyone trying to dampen the outrageous horror is ironically hilarious.

yep, she was put on a pedestal. sadly, people overlook what's on the inside; they only focus what's on the outside.

Was your caregiver/abuser diagnosed with anything or do you have a guess? Joan Crawford mirrors someone in my past who abused me. I've searching to figure out what was wrong with them.

@@tanyahorula1060 my mother never got help so we don't have an official diagnosis. Her mood swings were so drastic and so predictable -- unfailingly predictable -- that I would say bipolar, but she also checks all the boxes for anti-social personality disorder. I'm not a healthcare professional but it's my best guess from years of experience with her and research. In the end, getting help for myself was 10x more important than figuring her out.

@@nhmisnomer In Christina Crawford’s memoir Mommie Dearest she wrote of an incident whereby she ALLEGES Joan Crawford strangled her after she returned home from boarding school for summer vacation in June 1953. When Christina wrote of this allegation, she stated Joan had “a look in her eyes that will never be erased from my memory.” After this ALLEGED altercation, Christina was sent immediately back to boarding school. Christina published Mommie Dearest in October 1978. Nearly simultaneously to her writing this memoir, Christina was court ordered to be questioned in an UNDER-OATH deposition by Joan Crawford’s estate in February 1978. During her UNDER-OATH, court ordered deposition, Christina is specifically questioned about this incident, to which she responded: “I don’t know what you are referring to,” and continues to evade the questions regarding the incident. In addition to Christina’s complete, on the record, CONTRIDICTION of this event, the EYE-WITNESS to this event came forward in 1981 to confirm Christina LIED in her book. That EYE-WITNESS is Billie Greene, she was Joan’s assistant at the time. Greene stated in her unpublished interview: “I believe I’m quoted as saying ‘Stop, you’ll kill her.” I can tell you that I’ve never seen any discipline towards Christina or the other children that I would call out of control. There was not brutality that night.” *Credit to ChristinaCrawfordLied facebook.*

I have to wonder what would posses people to think that a movie about abuse would be pigeonholed as campy and even laugh at the horrible scenes. To me, that's sick.

What does "campy" mean??

I agree she was a scary person

It is so terrible what you has to go through, I know how you feel because Ive experienced things like this as well. It’s truly horrifying. I hope one day that you and I both will be able to forget the past forever.

Thank for sharing your story.

I also had abusive father with probable mental issues - this helped me, The Three Hs: HURT, HEAL, HELP others going through the same thing. And yes, all three Hs can be happening at the same time. 😇

Oh, this brought back a horrible memory from my childhood. My mother threatened to cut up a white turtleneck top I had, I can't remember what provoked her. It was frightening!

The child Christina is the real narcissist and why do black women have such an affinity for a hunk of junk like MD?

More terrifying than a stephen king novel.

What kind of movie was Mommie Dearest? Ans. A hit--and a whack.

Hi!!

We see you, you stunning blonde woman on the go. ~

Willam girl why are you everywhere

Worlds I never thought would collide but Im rlly here for it!

THE...Willam Belli? You were on Boston Public with Loretta Devine.

I'm so sorry for having such a childhood. Most who abuse their children were abused themselves. Thank goodness you did not repeat what your father had done to you. It's beautiful that you became a good mother! Bless you & your family!

ĺĺj

Agree. That last creature that complained that Faye threw a hairbrush at him should have considered it an honor! She doesn't throw tantrums or a hairbrush at just anybody! There are way to many Sissy-la-la's that walk among us.