I wish there was a way to pin this video in the howto section so more people would easily find it. Denis is absolutely spot-on on what he's saying! Thank you sir for this concise, clarifying and educative video on such a misunderstood subject!

I don't have one anvil. I realized pretty quick that the features of an anvil can be reliably broken up. For example, I have a flat faced piece that only weighs 24lbs on a stump. Much like a railroad tie plate. It's not the best for drawing things out. Instead of forge welding, consider putting a piece of nickel between a hardened plate and a mild steel Base. The shear strength is sufficient for the job. For rounding, I have a modified sledge hammer on the same stump as well as a triple layer of hard leaf springs (3x7inches) forge welded together for any bending I need to do as well as a softened hammer head for cutting steel. When I started I just had a piece of mild steel. They're very good for the money, and if they ding up, they're cheap and easy enough resurface. Eventually you can try forge welding a hardened steel plate onto it 1055 is a good choice and isn't fussy to harden though 1084 is preferable for it's shallow hardening properties.

I think the idea is that rebound makes it easier on the smith because it helps lift the hammer back up but I'd say probably not as much as one might think because you also have to consider the hardness of the item you're working on, which is usually pretty soft. I think if you work on the anvil all day you'd probably see a difference in fatigue though. Of course harder faces last longer without deformation as well as long as you don't chip or break them which is why several modern manufacturers have made a point not to make them too hard. You can actually get to good hardness by just facing a soft anvil with hardfacing welding rods and this doesn't require heating or a quench, just some grinding smooth after.

For those learning hammer control; A soft hammer is the answer not a soft anvil. Annealing is a needed skill for blacksmithing. If your control is so poor that you miss your work and dent your anvil, put your hammer in the forge. Allow a long soaking heat ( it is a hammer not a blade) then shut the forge off. The next day your hammer WILL be softer than your anvil.

i use an anvil that i made out of mild steel, with "100% penetration" welds (that is, about 10lbs of rod filling in so that the anvil is one solid piece rather than a bead on either side of the joint) the face gets dinged up sometimes, but is pretty durable and continues to work harden. this anvil cost me about $50, and it weighs around 120lbs. it's tall and skinny, but all the mass (3"x6"x16"h) is directly below the hammer, and for what it is, i think it outperforms any london pattern in the same weight range. i can't justify $5 $6 $7 $10 per pound for some clapped out 100 year old anvil. i paid 20 cents per pound on mine - so i always tell people to go this route, along with what you mentioned here about hardness. and, hey, if it gets dinged - we have angle grinders and mig welders nowadays. that's nothing to repair! much easier to fill in dings than to fill in chips.

"How Important is a Hardened Face on an Anvil?" You gave, BY FAR, the ABSOLUTE BEST ANSWER to that question that I've ever seen on KZfaq.

I've really enjoyed every video of yours that I've seen so far. As a beginner in the world of blacksmithing - who is still searching for my first anvil - this is some of the most useful anvil info I've seen yet. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with all of us.

Thanks Dennis. I am a beginner, and went for that long search for an anvil. I found one (Peter Wright), but it was expensive. I was untrained, plus the anvil had black paint all over it but the face looked relatively smooth with very little chipping. When I got it home, and scrubbed the paint off, I discovered that the center of the face had been repaired sometime in the past. Of course, the person who sold it to me did not reveal this fact, and the paint obscured it (be careful - I have seen this more than once). The areas that were built up with repair dent slightly when i hit it with a hammer. So I may need to perform some repairs myself to get to a satisfactory hardness. This left me with a lot of frustration and anger at myself for being such a dummy. This video has helped soothe a bruised ego, so thanks for that. And I will do what I can to improve it. Again, thanks for the reality check on the real reasons that an anvil works as a tool, rather than as a collectible.

I'm speculating that a harder surface will allow you to put ( bounce, reflect ) more of the energy from the strike into the piece your working. Where as a softer surface would absorb or dampen that energy. The amount of energy conserved may be significant.

In the eighties i bought an anvil of about a hundred pounds from an antique shop near by, they were using it as a door stop.It is a cast iron anvil with about 25% of the face beaten away,I tested the face with a file and the file wouldnt cut it.Even though that anvil is in such poor shape, it's still a good usable tool.I think it was $25.00 well spentThank you for sharing your knowledge, i wish the internet had been around when i was trying to learn how to forge.

I was looking at the harbor freight anvil. It case iron so it will/should work if I keep the work piece hot and soft. As it cools damage will occur. I see people beating a cold piece of metal and they are wondering why it damages the anvil. Go figure. This anvil might make a decent project. Heat it up and build up an inch of welded surface.

Thanks, Denis, for another great video. There is so much bunk out there concerning anvils. For the most part, people have come to believe anything the anvil collectors say and the myths are perpetuated. I am still searching for a serious shop anvil. I have a "traveler" which is a 128 lb PW which needed much tlc prior to it being functional, at least to my satisfaction. What I can't stand is the status that anvils have been given. As far as my logic understands, anvils are tools. If they need modification/repair/tlc then go for it. People who proclaim that anvil value decreases if you repair (flatten the face, radius-ing the edges, chamfering the hardy hole, etc) really have no idea what they're talking about and do nothing but increase the ignorance factor regarding anvils in general. However, the upside to this is that while the price of the perfect anvil is rising to ridiculous levels, the squat, wide, non-hardened face low rebound anvil sits in the corner gathering dust waiting to be discovered by me and given a good home.

Thank you for this video.

Excellent videos. I really like the way you balance the science and teaching. Great resource for those of us just starting out.

I love my London pattern anvil if I'm doing heavy forgeing I stay over the waist and no problem

excellent video Dennis, watching that ball bearing go "thunk" on to the hot steel has dispelled another internet theory for me!

great video. I do need to mention one thing about rebound of the anvil. This has no impact on the results of your video but the ball bearing test is an effect of the law of conservation of energy. The height of the rebound is perportional to the amount of energy retained by the ball bearing. But when hitting a a piece of metal with a 3 pound hammer if you loose 2 or 3 percent of the energy it's no big deal.

Couple quick thoughts on welding rods. 6011 is part of the fast freeze group. It was designed for dirty, painted and I'll fitted joints. It has extra deep penetration and would be suited to filling deep narrow openings. It does not build up fast. Nor is it strong enough to bond to tool steel. 7018 ( or preferably 8018) is part of the fast fill group which includes 7024. 7018 is an all position rod unlike 7024 which is a flat position rod. As a high speed welding rod, 7018 has iron powder in the flux coating and is used, among other things for build up of worn parts before re-machining. Therefore 7018 is preferred for anvil build up. Hard facing rods have little place in repairing anvils.

great video.i sub'd u after I saw just one of ur vid's,because I could hear wisdom in what u say.down here in Arkansas, anvils are hard to find.my first real anvil was a Fisher with the Hardy area broke off.it is still the anvil I go to for finishing work.the next a Hay Budden and I didn't test either one with a bounce test because it didn't matter, they were the only anvils I could buy without some farmer with deep pockets out bidding me at an auction.both of those anvils perform just fine.thanks for wonderful informative videos​ and keep them coming.

Thank you for answering my question. I will not attemot to harden my anvil face. 14:20 - there’s the key - “you’re not increasing the performance of the anvil; only the durability...” Makes perfect sense. That section from 14:20 to the end is really all anyone should need to know.

very good think you covered everything quite well I agree about tempering it's all about moving hot metal with a hammer and if you can't no tempered or hard face is going to let you do it

thank you so much for the video, I've been wondering about a lot of this for a while.

Thx Dennis, and excellent point, that blacksmiths have been doing centuries worth of great work, long before the advent of today's 'hardened' steels. Kinda reminds me of the frequent debate in gun culture, especially among KZfaqrs, over the 'necessity' of high caliber 'stopping power', when in reality even the smallest caliber will 'do the job'.... as ever, with the proper technique and skill in using the 'tool' to begin with.

This is an eye opening video. Thank you, very much.

You know his art. It gives me much admiration, the same that Ramón Recuero Ibáñez (Spanish smith who lives in Toledo) produces to me. Thank you for teaching me how to forge.

Thank for this because I have a early 1700 anvil I got at a flea market and I accidentally made a messy hammer blow and dented it and I stopped using that anvil so thanks so now I will start using it again

Very good points in this very educational video, Dennis. Thanks!

Just found this video Denis and it’s brilliant. I have some broken edges on my anvil which weighs in excess of 250Kg. Can I weld them without heating the whole anvil as some people suggest in their videos.

I don't understand why the rebound is a concern on an anvil!! You are not striking the anvil. You are striking the work!!! Thank you Sir for the great videos!!!! God bless you!!!!!

very interesting lecture. thank you so much.

I'm just learning so my understanding of the rebound test is more along the line of determining an anvil that allows body mechanics when striking that requires less energy to move the same or more amount of metal! But I also thought that the solidity from the face down through the anvil is relevant to produce the rebound you want! I'm also a drummer so, if I'm wrong, it's because of looking at the rebound of an anvil is like the rebound of a drumstick of a drum head! It's all in the rebound and grabbing that rebound to your advantage that will require less energy! I know that rebound can be more efficient for drumming and RYTHM!! I'm positively sure that if your in rythm with the rebound, it requires less effort in lifting the hammer back up, which should enable you to hammer longer which means more productivity!! But, I suppose I could be wrong! Feel free to comment and correct me if I am!

Dennis thank you for your commitment to providing such great educational videos on smithing. I have a 130# London pattern anvil that someone took off about the last 2 inches of the horn from. Otherwise the anvil is in wonderful shape and I could not pass up the price I got it for. I have contiplated adding steel to the horn vs sharpening the taper of what I already have. I hate to take metal away from the anvil. Any suggestions Dennis?

Great video. Some reason in a sea of internet anvil experts spewing forth all these myths and theories. Happy to fix up damaged anvils to be used again.

Do you have a name for this style of thick waisted anvil. I have a very old one of this type with no makers mark.

There is a very large anvil in the Hereford resource center that was made in about 0100 ad from bloom steel. Historians believe it to be roman but they have no idea how it was made as its huge its the largest single bloom for its time. Its also very hard and has cracked.more than once. i believe Viking and Saxon anvils where similar. the bloom steel is often a mix of hard and soft steels and iron. But i agree with you just the process of putting a hot thing on to an a tempered surface does little to help keep it hard. Ive worked anvils so hot you can't touch the for quite some time and they have been fine.

hell, I like to work backwards. I mounted my hammer on a stump and beat the steel with the anvil....kinda wears me out though...

Very informative! I'd like to get your opinion on something: I have a ~8-10" section of railroad track I've been using vertically as a "good enough for now" anvil. I've been considering adding a 6"x6", 1"-2" square or round plug of steel to the surface to give me a slightly larger area with which to work. I'm under no expectations of suddenly having a DIY Trenton as a result, but do you think it's worth the effort? Should I buy a piece that is hardenable or pre-hardened, or just find a chunk of mild steel?

Dennis, you a right of coarse, the best asset any anvil has is mass! Beating hot steel with your 2 or 3 LB hammer on top of a 500 LB anvil is always going to give better results than a 20 LB lump of railway track. Through good fortune I went from a 150 LB to an almost 450 LB and could not believe the difference!

Hey I know this is an older video but I just wanted to ask your opinion on the Gunther method. It recommends hardfacing in all cases, and judging by what you say this isn't in line with the parent stock in most cases. I've touched up edges with mild steel rod with the theory being that "well it broke before, why would I put something brittle back" would mild steel rod be appropriate for face repairs?

I must admit I rarely miss the work and hit my pretty Hay Budden right on the face. It makes me nuts.

I have an 100lb anvil I've got build up 90 0/0 of the face , wondering would it a good idea to put steel plate on it after I get it build up and ground. and if so what kind of steel plate should I use?

speaking of anvil shapes, what do you think about the block style and voles that don't have horns and all of the face is completely over the mass of the body? something similar to the design that Glen GS tong has made and uses.

something interesting I've read before was that someone took a piece of low carbon and work hardened it, so intentionally started beating the steel down evenly and checking for compressing it flat with marking fluid. im wondering if that would work? cause that would be easier for me than finding a hardenable steel plate of that size.

Have you ever heard the saying "you'll go to hell for striking cold steel on an anvil". The guy that taught me a little about blacksmithing told me it was an old saying but for all I know, he made it up himself.

I'm totally new to this very interesting subject and of course I have been soaking up KZfaq. From what I have come across having hardened tools missing the target and striking a hardened anvil could send very dangerous shards of hardened metal. So having non-hardened steel tools and anvils would get the job done and provide a level of safety.

The 112 lb anvil I have now has hammer marks from testing the rebound of my hammer. I forgot I was warned not to do this. I received the anvil with a pitted face which I welded up and ground down until it looked like an anvil face again. I thought I needed to harden the face. I guess not. Should I grind out the hammer marks? Just use it as is?

I am a novice just starting out. I bought a 50lb anvil from a friend and it isn't very hard. I've been grinding it to get rid of some weld and other surface deformations. Now I'm sanding it to eradicate grind marks and get the face flat and shiny, but when i tested it with a couple of hammers I'm making more dings. Am i wasting my time? From this video it sounds like i am.

Have you ever seen a smith who hits his anvil as much or more than his work? This is really irritating to me. They are the ones that need a hardened face on their anvil. I think the weight of hammer to anvil has more to do with it than a rebounding ball. Think about it if the anvil weighed the same as your hammer the would both rebound the same from each other so the heaver the anvil the more force goes into the work. Of course there is a point where you don't gain much for a increase in anvil weight compared to hammer weight. probably there is a sweet spot of hammer to anvil weight. Does anybody know?

👍👍up Denise

My uncle just gave me a 90 lb chunk of 4140 steel to use as an anvil. I don't think it's been hardened. Does unhardened 4140 steel make good anvils?

Wonder if you could take a piece of precision ground steel plate and plug weld it to the face of an old anvil, would it work?

Seems like the majority of the points people point to for harbor freight anvils being crap are kind of explained away by this video. How a harbor freight anvil is soft steel and cast steel tends to be brittle or what not. I see a bunch of videos of people trying to remedy that by adding plate or welding stringers on the horn to make it more workable. Is this saying that the base harbor freight anvil is workable?

The material used for pencil is graphite, not lead. it's a common mistake. o

2 things i would mention/debate. 1. hardened face anvils are not for beginers/idiots as you say, on the contrary. An idiot will mishit the corner or hit it with too hard hammer face and indent the face...once chips and dips occur, it is impossible to rectify the face and corners without reheattreating and ht a x00 pounds anvil is anything but easy/cheap. so the anvil is ruined if used badly. A soft piece of steel will not chip, no injury hazard also, it will roll and deform the face but with a simple grinder in few hours and few bucks worth of abrasives is just like new one. Si, imho, is opposite than you say. hard face anvils ware out harder and when used properly will last few lifetimes, a master blacksmith will never need to repair anything on it...considering in the past abrasives abd powertools were not available nor efortless to use, that was a huge step forward for proffesionals, spending time working not caring for the tool.

Dennis have you seen Jeff's side by side rebound comparison? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jLqHYMhm0avHhIk.html

I dont understand why folks who claim mass matters most and not the hardness of the forging surface will not forge on the surface of a large tree trunk

I’m coming very late to this, so consider that. So the first anvils were some not well understood combination of cast, wrought, or whatever the iron pour might have been. They didn’t really understand much of alloys, or even the proper way of hardening or tempering. For example, Damascus steel. Some people think that they really knew what they were doing with that metal back then and that the alloy was a secret. Well, it was a secret. But the secret was where the small mine for the metal was. They were lucky that the iron from that mine had alloying ingredients that gave them that fine steel, and they learned how to use it. But when the mine ran out, so did Damascus steel. It took 1,500 years before any real understanding came about. But skipping ahead to the 1800s, they did understand wrought iron quite well, and the could make “tool steel”, which was just medium to high carbon steel with any lucky natural additions that gave better qualities. At that point, they did forge those plates to the top of a wrought iron body. But metallurgically, the striking plate did get hardened, not necessarily intentionally, but from the heat of forging itself. This was very unpredictable, and the hardness varied across the face. Often the edges hardened more as they cooled off more quickly. Later they did harden the striking edge intentionally, but it was difficult to do so at the time as it also heated up the anvil body. More modern anvils, before the 1950s when new anvil production became cast tool steel of various known alloys, and modern technology allowed reliable hardening if the striking surfaces, most good anvils have a face hardened to between 48-55 RC, depending on the manufacturer. The problem with unhardened faces, below 40RC usually, is that people who are less skilled tend to hit the face with a hard blow while entirely, or partly, missing the soft steel being forged. Their anvils, as I’ve seen, look like the face of the moon, and no quality work can be done on it.

Why milling is a BAD idea. Even if we give licence to your soft anvil theory, any old anvil with even a medium carbon steel top (we know tops were actually high carbon, since they eventually become hard enough to crack) would work harden after 1-200 years of hammering. This is why anvil sway. Where did you think the metal went? The sway is always over the sweet spot ( center of mass) except in the case of single product anvils. This thin, ultra hard (extra good) layer cannot be preserved if on mills or grinds the top plate. There is NOTHING wrong with a gentle sway, in fact it is much easier to make items flat over a swayed anvil than a perfectly flat anvil. Removing even 1/32" off the top plate takes decades off the lifetime of a tool designed to last hundreds of years. I didn't comment on your previous videos since you asked nicely and I understand that your old anvil was already junk. As you said, with junk anvils you have nothing to lose so weld, grind, mill away Rene. The problem is that beginners often think a perfectly good anvil is junk.

should be heating a iron anvil above 250c before repair welding. peening welds as you go and post heating too.