hi nick. if I set my 13.5 sweet spot at 6A using 2s on the analyser what A draw would I get in my car on 1s. thanks.

+dooronron69 Hi With a 1S Lipo it will then draw about 4 to 4.5 amps, depending on Lipo voltage.

+Nick Adams Thankyou. I did try to find out but when I did connect my multimeter on A setting in line with esc I got cogging every time but no cogging without multimeter, so thought I'd ask you instead, 👍

+dooronron69 Probably the connecting leads dropping voltage. Try and use heavy connecting wires to the multimeter, and keep them short. If you can make up some with the same wire you use in your car.

+Nick Adams will try that. thankyou.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rrKSobx7mM2uXWQ.html From 10 minutes

Hi Matthew I have not seen that view from Motiv. Heat is the main problem with motors running as hard as they can. So always use a high performance cooling fan, and check motor temperature does not go past the 70 -80 degree C at the end of the race.

Hi Moon You do not need to disconnect the speedo. You can switch it off, but it is not damaged even if you have left it on.

Nick, thanks a lot for the info. Makes it much easier to test motors which are directly soldered to the ESC

+Nick Adams Thank you very much Nick. You're doing some great work here, I really appreciate what you're doing. The rolling dyno is just awesome...throwback stuff right there :)

Hi. Some multimeters do not give comparable results. make sure the connecting leads are heavy duty , like on the ESC. 5.5amps at 47degree is about right. The amps start to increase rapidly after a certain advance. In your case 47 degree seems that point. At 50 degree it will probably jump a lot more. All the best Nick

+pSiLoKaTaLiSt Hi The meter goes in the positive wire to the battery. (In line) So feed the speed control positve wire into the meter, then take a wire from the other terminal on the meter to the battery positive. The negative wire from the speed control goes directly to the battery as normal.

Hi Yes, the 21.5T motors run hot, since they have high resistance windings. You will need to start at a lower amps, say 5 amps, and check the temperature. Temperatures above 70deg C after a run, will slow the motor, and any higher than 80deg C will probably damage the windings. Adjust the gearing to suit smaller tracks. Always use a motor cooling fan, if you can fit one.

Thanks. So I dont have a motor analyzer. Ill use my esc and radio but question about the radio. so full throttle with end point of 100. my radio has the option to go up to 150% so should i use 100% or 150% as my throttle endpoint ? thanks.

Hi If you have set the radio to the speed control , then it will be full speed when trigger pulled to max, and a LED normally comes on full on the speed control. (Radio set at 100%) The extra 50% on the transmitter is only used if you cannot get the LED to light, by nudging it up a few %. On modern radios and speed controls this is not normally needed. So just leave at 100%. Also if you put it up, then full speed is reached for less trigger (stick) movement. This could be useful if you just wanted instant max speed without much intermediate throttle control. Note that some speed controls will go out of calibration if you increase to 150%, so do it in stages.

Hi I have been asked this about 21.5T motors. See some answers below. The general answer is that it depends very much on the heat generated during the race. your motor should not exceeds 79degC at end of race. You will probably have to set the free running amps about 4.5A.

Hi Yes, you can set the same with short, 1S,2S. It will get you to a competitive setting, which you can fine tune depending on the type of circuit.

+ryan holcomb Hi Ryan Yes, rotors can explode, but it is not normal these days. Especially when you consider the revs of lower turn motors. I test at a lower voltage, about 7.6volts. Your motor should definately draw more than 1.8amps at 48degrees, so sometyhing must be wrong.

Hi What motor tester do you have? The motor tester is not putting out full power. If the motor tester has a built in speed control it looks like it doesn't reach full on power. Also make sure you have good (short) connecting wires and contacts, as they can drop voltage(and current).

Thank you for the quick response. I purchased a Trackstar Motor Analyzer from HobbyKing. It looks identical to G Force, SkyRC , etc., analyzers. Also, much to my surprise, I tested three 17.5 motors (one is new and still in the box) and all motor sensor boards only had a one degree variation in phase timing. Hmm :-) BTW, all motors are Trackstar ROAR approved units and are very competitive on a shorter indoor clay track.

Hi Well check some other motors and make sure the tester is working ok. Maybe it looks the same on outside, but is a second rate on the inside.

Hi If you have the motor checker, tha shows amps, then you will not need the meter as well. The meter is for those who do not have the tester. When connecting the meter, it should read with the leads either way, as the display will show plus or minus amps. All the best nick

Perfect. Thanks for your help Nick. Very informative videos. I look forward to more. And thanks for putting up with all my questions. I'm a bit anal when it comes to my RC cars and equipment. I like to do thinks right.

Ho No, that's good. You are preparing to win.

Hi Buggies tend to run motors hot, as there is little cooling air flow. Try and use a fan to cool motor. The motor should not run hotter than say 79 degree C. Measured on case as soon as the car has stopped. It is all about best performance. The lower gear will give more acceleration, is that what you want? The extra timing will add the top speed.

+Nick Adams Based on the new layout of my track more acceleration seems most desirable. I haven't had the opportunity to to test it yet, that will come tomorrow, so a bit of experimentation will be needed. But the d4 1s has a lot of torque it seems.

Hi The D4 and Revtech 24K use a strong magnet rotor and give good torque.

+Nick Adams That torque almost makes up for the substandard sensors.

Hi No. That is DC Volts. It should have a DCA position and a socket marked 10Amps.

Hi. A difficult one to answer, as there are so many variables. But i would use 40 degrees and 20 degrees of boost for a longer track. Others may prefer 30 degrees and max out the ESC boost.

+Steve Vakalis Hi Steve All the advice applies to the Blinky (Locked speedo zero boost timing). I checked a number of motors that racers had got to perform very well. 6 amps was a typical reading. Higher currents , say 8 amps made motors hotter, with very little performance gain. Lower currents dropped the performance and top speed, which is not recovered by the gearing. Also when setting the timing, after 6 amps, only a small timing increase causes the amps to jump, suggesting that is the best point for performance against efficiency. However , I give this information so that any racer can get a very good performance from their motor straight away, without being in the dark. Experienced and more serious racers can then adjust their motor up (or down) according to their own ideas, and or the size of track and type of racing. (ie very small track, or very long and fast) and whether the temperature of the motor is worth the risk of a small gain. Lower amp draw will be nice and safe and keep motor cooler and may benifit small tracks with lots of accidents. Lower amp draw will sacrifice top speed, but may not be a concern on smaller tracks. Hope that helps. Nick

Thanks for the great videos, Nick! I subscribed! The info above regarding how people settled at 6 amps is a critical piece of info that you may want to include in the notes section of your video. I was wondering myself how did everyone come to about 6 amps vs. 5 or 4, etc. Glad to see that there is a good factual reason as to why.

Hi The 21.5T motors are inefficient and get hot with the resistance loss in the windings. I suggest you start at 4 amps and see how hot it is after the race. If still below 70deg C on thcase, then try 5amps. until it gets too hot.

21.5T run very hot, as they have a lot of winding resistance. If you are using a 2S Lipo, then you will have to make sure the motor does not overheat. So try 4 amps at first, and see how it sounds, and where the timing is set on the endbell. Check the temperature during a run. Use a high power cooling fan. The motor temperature should not exceed 80degreeC. Generally the amp draw will increase rapidly after the sweet spot, so even a few extra degrees of timing will put the amp draw up quickly.

Hi Ian After a race the motor temperature should not be higher than 80degC Note that motors will get hotter when the ambient temp is higher, and on shorter tracks. Also fit the best motor cooling fan.

Hi Robert Yes, to check timing you can do it with motor still driving the transmission. But to test amps and KV, remove or unmesh the pinion.

Hi Leigh . Track testing shows that setting most winds from 4.5T up to 17.5T perform very well, in Blinky mode, when set about 6 to 7 amps. Your 8.5T motor will be good. On larger fast tracks you can increase the amps 7up to about 8 amps. But alwaqys check motor temperature after a run, and no higher than about 76deg C.

Hi Johnny Yes it can work for low turn motors, but with some experimentation. For instance: A racer had several 6.5T motors of different makes. One was the best on the track and others not as good. By measuring the good one, it was clear that the timing on the others was way out. (Amps too low or too high). By setting them to the good one, they all became competitive. However , with low turn motors, it also depends on any timing added by the speed control. But, if the no load amp draw is high, then that is lost power and is lost as heat in the motor. So, if you have extra electronic timing applied from the speed control, then 6 amps will give an efficient motor.

Nick Adams thank you I really appreciate it

+MerleSauvola Hi The motors can overheat in an offroad. This setting of the motor is for maximum performance for racing. In your 4x4 the gearing may cause overheating, so run it for a few minutes and feel the motor. If cold, then adjust gearing, faster. If too hot to touch reduce gearing or reduce endbell timing down by 10 degrees . Run and check motor temperature, until it runs just hot after 5 minutes. Race on. Nick

Hi Matthew. Yes you can set the motor with a 1S lipo. The amps should be set about 4.5 amps.

Nick Adams can only get upto 1.8 using trackstar , ive modified the timing ring to allow further rotation but i can only go as high as 2.5 after that the motor slows dramatically.

Hi Matt What wind is the motor? Is it a 21.5T. They cannot reach a high amps, due to the winding resistance. In this case, turn the timing to reach maximum revs, then turn back a fraction.

Hi Dimitri The Multimeter needs to be set to 10amps DC range. Then insert it in the positive power lead, so that the wire goes from the tester and in one socket and out the other to the battery positive. The battery negative lead connects directly to the tester, like normal. Hope that helps nick

+Nick Adams I understand. just need to find a multimeter with the proper sized leads for battery a analyzer. My battery takes 4mm bullets

Hi Most multimeters have 4mm sockets. Use heavy duty connecting wire, if the multimeter ones are thin.

Hi Jeremy No, the 25.5 are inefficient and prone to overheat. so a lower off load amp draw of about 4 amps is a good starting point. Then check the temperature of the motor after a run, and adjust to keep below 70deg C.

Hi James Not sure what you're getting at, but if you apply a load that prevents the motor reaching it's maximum revs, then the motor will be overtimed and will draw a heavy current and be inefficient. A bit like driving a real loaded car up a hill in 4th gear, as it picks up speed it will suddenly take off as it enters the efficient sweet spot for the gear. An electric motor in a model car operating with a lot of advance timing will need to be run at the higher speeds to be efficient, although the torque is very high at lower revs, so will still accelerate. All the best nick

that makes sense thank you for explaining.

+Bart Grider Hi Bart The sweet spot refers to motors run with "Blinky" speed controls: ie. With no advance timing (Turbo) added by the speed control. Therefore the timing on the motor endbell is advanced to get maximum performance. Low turn motors, such as a 7.5T motor normally are powerful enough at a low timing, as supplied. Also most speed controls can add electronic (Turbo boost) timing to give a lot of extra performance from the motor. So, it is not necessary to find an optimum maximum timing on these low turn motors. However, it can still be useful to check the offload current draw, since a high current, say over 10 amps, will cause the motor to heat up. NOTE: Low turn motors can rev very high with no load, and the rotors can explode. Therefore I do not recommend it. Overheating of motors should be avoided, so always check it, after a run, and if too hot to touch, fit a good motor cooling fan, and/or back off the timing on the speed control, or fit a smaller pinion etc. Hope that helps Nick

Thank you for the great explanation.

Hi. When running in Blinky mode, the ESC timing is fixed at zero and is not adjustable. That is why the motor timing is normally set high at 45 to 60 degrees. If you are in normal boosted class racing, the motor endbell is normally set about 30 degrees and then the ESC can be used to increase the timing up to a max of 64degrees, by adding say another 34degrees. Some ESC have boost and turbo settings which can be added together, but also set at various rpm points and ramp up times.

Hi A number of racers have tuned successfully at 6 amps (2S Lipo), and the used with a 1S lipo. Some racers prefer less or more timing, so it is critical depending on your track , FDR, and temperature of motor after a run. It is still a good starting point that will get you running at a good speed.

Thanks nick!

Hi I do have a Dyno that accelerates a heavy flywheel and the results can be analysed on the computer. It does take longer to set up and analyse the results. A constant load dyno would be useful, but the one I have was for brushed motors and cannot cope with modern high power brushless. There are a few coming on the market now, but are expensive. I have considered making one.

Right. I have a turbo dyno I use. Its great. I have it set to a constant volt and it will do 6 pulls each at a different level of torque resistance. From that i measure RPM, Watt, Efficiency and amp draw.

Hi Is that a TurboDyno you can buy, or made yourself?

They are TurboDyno from the brushed days converted for brushless motors. shoot me an email at dirt42fan@gmail.com I will send you some pics

Hi Cody The amp draw off load is lost power and will result in heat. Low turn motors are normally very powerful and do not need a lot of advance timing. Also timing can be applied by the speed control as Turbo boost etc. Therefore, set the amp draw at 6 or less depending on how the motor is used. For instance, if you have a speed control with boost, then you can start at say 10 degrees on the end bell, which will give a wide torque band and linear speed acceleration. Apply speed control boost and gear the motor for top speed. Race on. Nick

+dooronron69 Hi Assuming you are using a 2S lipo (7.4volt) Most older motors have restricted endbell timing, so you cannot advance to 50 to 60 degrees. It is possible to file away the end stops on some motors so you can add more advance.

+Nick Adams i am using 2s battery and they are new motors but cheap trackstar ones from hobbyking and have max 33 degree timing. my thunder power on full 50 degree draws 7.5A so gunna be turning that down to 6A and use that one. 👍

+dooronron69 Unless you haven't calibrated your radio correctly, the other option is to get a motor with higher timing. My motor goes to 40 and it basically doubles the amp draw in the last 2 degrees. Before that I was getting around 3 amps.

+Robert T it's all sorted now Thankyou, There isn't any radio gear involved, just a battery, multimeter, analyzer and motor. The timing on my motors must have been restricted, When I tried the top end motors they all had higher timing and higher amp draw,

Hi Joker. Racing results show that the X factor is the faster motor. Most of the new motors are performing at a high level, and the difference between them is getting less. So they are all are capable of winning.

Hi Stone. Yes, still is valid and gives very good results with latest motors for 2019. Blinky mode racing.

Thanks! I appreciate it. It's been a VERY long time since I've raced in Stock Class..... And it was all Brushed back then! We got good at "tweaking" the Endbells slightly and skewing the Armature!! 😱😱 From all I've heard, "Stock" doesn't sound very Stock anymore.

It isn't, just like back in your brushed motor days, there is a lot of cheating

@@Powerpickle68 - It really sounds like it's overdue time to either reinvent or redefine "Stock" Class. It's been considered since the early 90's, to do "Box Stock Handout" of Vehicles, for a REAL Driver's Race!

Hi Just to show, you can set the motor up with the ammeter, if you do not have the analyzer.

Thanks for the reply. I have one more question. If you set up your end-bell at 6.0 amp, but the motor analyzer's timing is a little bit off (maybe around 4~5 degrees), would you still follow 6.0amp or the motor analyzer's setting? If they are different, then what would you do?? Thanks.

Good for you knob head

I didn't find anything that "you" said here useful. Since you can't add anything beneficial, then why comment at all.

Hi Mits. Using this method, use a fully charged lipo. So 8volt is good.

@@nickadams5411 thanks. ive been thinking of using a step-down voltage device that lets me run constant 8v to the tester from a 12v power supply...

@@rcmits Hi. The KV remains constant no matter the input voltage variation. So the input voltage source is not that important , as long as it can supply the amps. That is why a 2S lipo is best.

@@nickadams5411 well... I learn something new everyday... Tha KS for the info