Wait...what? The Old Hunters did everything Artorias of the Abyss did. It fleshed out the overall backstory of the hunters curse, as AotA fleshed out what happened to Oolacile and the spread of the Abyss. It had some of the best boss fights of the whole game and introduced a ton of new weapons, though it still suffers from the same problem of giving you all those weapons so late into the game. Like AotA, The Old Hunters includes the backstory of the legendary characters that you only read about in item descriptions like Ludwig, Maria, and Kos. We learn more about Byrgenwerth and what probably lead up to its members splitting off and also about the desperation and superstition of the old hunters. The Dreams and Nightmares have a direct relation to the actual world, as they do in Lovecraft's novels. You even said this in your earlier Bloodborne video. Once you defeat Maria and the Orphan, the Doll comments on how she and Gherman have felt a weight of guilt lifted from them. The DLC starts with the regular "Bram Stoker" atmosphere, with beast hunts, crazed hunters, moving corpses, creepy prisons and laboratories, then goes into a literal retelling of Shadow over Innsmouth with the player fighting an infant/aborted Great One at the end. I'm sorry but your arguments dont really add up and everything you praise Dark Soul's DLC is also found in Bloodborne's. The actions you do in both DLCs dont really effect either games in anyway other than an altered cutscene in Dark Souls. You still have to fight Sif regardless. If Bloodborne's DLC has no impact on the story, then neither does Dark Soul's.

I'm kind of disappointed in George for the first time ever. It feels like he either hasn't finished The Old Hunters, or didn't devote very much time to thinking about all that it implies for the lore of Bloodborne. From Soft has a fetish for DLC that explores the past of the base Souls games, and Old Hunters is no different. His complaints about the levels being "mostly recycled" is just dishonest. Maybe 10 percent of the Cathedral Ward was actually recycled, the rest being heavily altered or entirely unrecognizable. The Cathedrals and the Research Hall are completely new, and while the Hall definitely calls back to the Duke's Archives, calling it a straight retread is disingenuous, and the same could be said for the Celestial Emissary and Living Failures. Those two were similar to make a point; The Church clearly created the emissary, but some failures came first. The research hall finally gives some insight into why, specifically, the church is fucked. I know this is just your opinion, George, but for the first time... your opinion doesn't feel justified, or maybe it feels like it isn't your actual opinion and you were just making a point out of it. The rest of the video is excellent, but I implore you to spend more time in The Hunter's Nightmare and to give it more consideration before you blast it for being a rehash with nothing new to offer.

"Pack of levels ended up being more enjoyable than what was in the vanilla game" A forest we've seen before with tanky as shit enemies, a village that only has one straight path to explore and a dark abyss like area similar to New Londo with a lighting system that was already implemented much better in Tomb of the Giants. Wow! Completely changed the game, right? Meanwhile the Old Hunter levels added battles between beasts and other hunters, dizzying and vertical level design not seen anywhere in Bloodborne, and some of the best boss battles between the Souls series and Bloodborne itself.

I respect your opinion, but I really think you were using double standards when comparing The Old Hunters and Artorias of the Abyss. And this is coming from someone who adores AotA. AotA had fantastic boss fights and rounded out the lore nicely, but most of the sections in between boss fights weren't great. Royal Wood was a reskin (intentional I know) with variants of pre-existing enemies, and Chasm of the Abyss was basically a less elaborate version of Tomb of the Giants (although admittedly the humanity enemies were cool). Oolacile Township had a very nice aesthetic (looked like an Escher painting) and was a well designed level, but lacked enemy variety. So, when you call out Bloodborne's DLC for re-using certain aspects of the vanilla game, it feels unfair when giving those same practices a pass in AotA. Especially when the areas in between boss fights feel more fleshed out in The Old Hunters. (Also I felt like comparing Fishing Hamlet to Blighttown was a stretch at best.) And The Old Hunters was arguably more Lovecraft inspired than the vanilla game, considering that Fishing Hamlet was heavily inspired by Innsmouth. IMO three of the bosses in The Old Hunters are at least as good as the AotA bosses, and the sound track is phenomenal.

Completely disagree with you on the Bloodborne DLC. I would compare to the Bloodborne DLC to the Dark Souls DLC in that I feel they both add some of the best areas in the game, and in my opinion the best bosses in the game. They both add interesting new items and weapons and replayability as well. Your comment about how the DLC seems stuck in the pre-lovecraftian reveal part of Bloodborne is just flat out wrong as well. I just don't understand that comment. And there is quite a lot of new lore in the Bloodborne DLC that isn't just secluded to the DLC area, so you aren't exactly spot on there either.

You're criticizing Bloodborne for having a thing with a wooden floor and a ladder going down and Dark Souls also has a thing with a wooden floor and a ladder going down. What the actual fuck? If you're that nitpicky, Dark Souls has many elements from Demon's Souls and that game has elements from King's Field. It's practically a staple of From to re-use different elements but to try to improve upon them, change the context, put them in a different light, etc. That said, I don't think a wood floor with a ladder on it qualifies as some re-used idea. You know what else Bloodborne has? Stairs. WELL SHIT ON MY ASS DARK SOULS ALSO HAS STAIRS! Why can't we get some originality here? Stairs are too safe and predictable.

Super Bunnyhop: "The Old Hunters isn't that good." Everyone with a brain: "I'm about to end this man's whole career!"

I'm truly amazed...One minute in, and literally every single thing you said was the exact opposite of how I feel about Bloodborne and Dark Souls. Simply incredible. Never had that happen before.

Bloodborne's expansion satisfied me alone than most of the games released in 2015 did as a whole.

Honestly you're the first person I've met who doesn't think Old Hunters is amazing, are you sure you're not just overly nostalgic for Artorias of the Abyss? It was pretty short and while it had exceptional boss fights, there wasn't a lot to it other than that.

So Bunnyhop, are we ever going to get a Critical Closeup on Fallout: New Vegas? I mean you seem to love it a lot. Would be nice to see you do it.

You're out of your god damned mind, man. The Old Hunters is not only a fantastic DLC, but it's probably the most incredible portrayal of dream-logic in a video game I have ever seen, in addition to layering dreams better than Inception AND revealing the sin at the crux of the entire game.

"these two levels are the same because they both have messy plank floors and ladders" "area has dark brown wood staircases? COPY"

Seriously, that's all I do with non-niche games now. Wait for the "Game of the Year/Ultimate/Expanded/etc. Edition". *All* the content at half or less of the original price. I've got a big gaming backlog. I can wait. Kind of aggravating that the Assassin's Creed games never do that, but still.

Are you actually comparing two ladders? What...

I highly suggest you make a single video for New Vegas

"well blightown has wood and ladders, it was here first so......" Did you sprain your hands stretching that far

Fishing Hamlet = Blighttown? You are better than this George, come on.

I like your videos dude but this one is kind of all over the place and doesn't really make sense. Your criticisms of the levels in Old Hunters are especially baffling; saying the Research Hall is a direct copy of Dukes is disingenuous as all hell especially considering you only do the staircase change thing once and it changes the structure of the entire level. It also attempts to do way more actual storytelling through it's level design and progression than any other location in any other Souls game. The Hamlet v Blighttown comparison is embarrassing as well. If wooden planks and a wooden ladder make an area a carbon copy of somewhere else then jesus christ what are we even doing. There's not even a fucking poison swamp in that area which would be the true sign of a valley/blighttown retread. I like AotA but you massively overrate it here. AotA shined because of it's boss fights and because of NPC's like Gough. The actual levels were nothing special. One was just a reskinned Darkroot and Oolacile and the Cave were very simplistic and not, I'd argue, visually better than anything in the base game. They didn't bring anything new to the table either so I don't know what this "played with lighting in ways the base game didn't" stuff is coming from. That really seems like grasping at straws. Also the level design in the Research hall and Hamlet are superior to anything in AotA and I'm just talking mechanically there; not even going into visuals or art direction or lore or anything else. I'd almost say that the stuff you're saying in this video is deliberately misinforming people for whatever reason that might be. It's crazy just how many factually wrong things you're saying or lying through omission (mention lacklustre bossfights like Failures but don't show any footage or mention of Ludwig or Maria or anything. also mentioning the lighting in the abyss cave as some new thing when TotG already happened in vanilla DaS1) Like I said I've always enjoyed your videos even ones where I've disagreed with some things you've said, but this one feels especially sloppy and kind of throws the rest of the vids you've made into a different light. It makes me think about how many other possible things that you've said in previous videos have been poorly researched and deliberately misleading.

The old hunters is actually regarded by the souls community as being on the same level (if not more) than artorias of the abyss. And actually has a twist in it, the old hunters story is actually better than the main game, and i don't know how did you get the idea but the old hunters top bloodborne's in every aspect. saying that you would skip the old hunters on new playthroughs in criminal, since that expansion has 4 out 5 of its bosses as some the best bosses in every souls game. and more than 30% of the games weapons (and most are from the better ones) are in the old hunters

Blightown: rotten, vertical area with poisonous enemies and a poisonous swamp at the bottom. Fishing Hamlet: Houses built upon a river, a fishing area with aquatic looking enemies, fishing and dock motifs and tunnels in the bottom. Fuck it, they both have a ladder and wooden floors. They're pretty much the same thing.

I always liked silly DLCS like Blood Dragon for Far Cry 3 and Undead Nightmare for Red Dead Redemption. The developers decided to just go silly and just have fun with it. Make something of an almost self parody. And I like that a lot. To see a big game publishers and developers let loose and have some fun is something I wished we'd see more of.

"DLC didn't have to be a dirty word" - Such a true and sad statement. An innovative development for modern games that's primarily been exploited.

I was shaking when I first beat Ludwig, I was ecstatic and that alone is worth the dlc for me. And Ludwing is not even my favorite boss, it's Maria. Everything is amazing on this DLC/Expansion. The music, the bosses, the enviroments and the story reveals many new things but also leaves so much potential for new theories. It's great.

I have not seriously disagreed with your critiques until now. From the enhanced build diversity, insane boss fights and brilliant story explaining the origin of the hunters curse I loved this dlc. The only dlc I've enjoyed since the crown trilogy in fact.

Artorias of the Abyss experimented with lighting in a way that the main game didn't? What about Tomb of Giants?

I get using other people's footage for a review because getting it is time consuming, but not giving credit and cropping out their watermark is kinda shitty tbh

I'm actually failing to see how you could've come to this conclusion on the Bloodborne DLC? Like you're practically giving misinformation on the quality of it really. Ludwig himself is one of the best boss fights in the entire souls series, it fills in a ton of gaps in the lore, the soundtrack is incredible, the scale of it doesn't outshine the maingame, yet many encounters managed to feel fresh or just plain exciting. I don't think i've ever loved a fight as much as Lady Maria. This video doesn't really do the DLC any justice at all. :/

Just wanna point out I'm the person that recorded and uploaded some of the dark souls footage that was used in this video. For the record I talked to bunnyhop about this via twitter dm's and we hashed out any issues/misunderstandings. So please don't continue to attack him for this as I don't think there was any malicious intent behind this.

Wait, what? How the hell isn't The Old Hunters some spooky Lovercraftian stuff? It literally rips off Innsmouth.

I loved the crud out of the Bloodborne DLC, I think its probably the best piece of DLC in a souls game so far. It adds so many new weapons and they are so good! The level design is great, the twist of it is great, its all super good stuff! Been having a blast with all of it. Also, cmon why do people always focus so much on Fromsoft's recurring ideas and designs? Okay folks, you gotta come to terms with this: Fromsoft always does that, every soulsish fromsoft game has at least one area with rickety wooden bridges, just like they all have a Patches and a moonlight greatsword and something about a curse, these motifs were happening in Demon's Souls too, some of it was happening even before that, its just what they do.

Though The Old Hunter's DLC was not a massive expansion, it gave the fans what they wanted. More bosses, more places to explore, more armor, and especially more weapons. Although a short experience, I enjoyed the crap out of it.

How the hell is Fishing hamlet similar to Blighttown? Fishing hamlet is literally Innsmouth in almost every single way. You praise it's lovecraftian tone in your other video and yet you completely miss the point of the one area directly inspired by one of Lovecraft's works. It's like you didn't even play the DLC.

I thought living failures was one of the best fights. Just because it wasn't mechanically complex or particularly difficult doesn't mean it's bad or lazily designed. Here are my thoughts as to why it's a fantastic fight. Before you reach the failures you see many mentions of Maria from the patients. You are also told by an NPC to kill Maria to progress. So this boss, Maria, is fully set up for you. Naturally you expect her to be the next or final boss. You find some big doors and I cannot tell you how many streamers, yourtubers and even myself didn't realise it was opening to a boss fight. And then extra surprise, it's not Maria, but something called "Living Failures". You step into one of the most impressive set piece environments in a souls game, the music slowly builds as more failures appear, and you experiment hitting them. The boss fight is unusual, placing you on your guard more than normal. One you figure it out it's pretty straight forward, and the story significance starts to sink in. You are fighting the epitome of the failed experiments found throughout the previous area. The church created these creatures, once human, and there is a sense of tragedy and yet majesty which is perfectly reflected by the second half of the soundtrack. Like the rest of the bosses, killing them is not necessarily a joyous victory, there are more complex emotions at work. There's a tragedy that these creatures failed to reach great one status, and are essentially relegated to living out their days in a garden not unlike something you'd see at a psychiatric or special needs facility. They also compliment the back story of Maria and vice versa, both bosses are stronger for the others existence

It's unfortunate how small the playerbase for this kind of story-based DLC actually is. The vast, vast majority of people will never play these and they are rarely talked about as much as the main game. Some of the DLC I've played over the past few years is so good that it actually completely changed my opinion on a game (Mass Effect 3- Citadel) or even gave me a whole new favorite in the series that stands on it's own (Bioshock 2 - Minverva's Den.) Citadel gave me everything that I wanted out of Mass Effect 3 and more. It gave me a hilarious final adventure where I get to take every member of my squad with me. Lots of inside jokes and banter, you even get to throw a party and participate in massive group conversations about your previous adventures and relationships. It's bittersweet, it felt like the true end of the game for me and I feel so sorry for anyone who missed out on it. And Miverva's Den had better writing, and level design than the main Bioshock 2 game did. It was extremely clever and actually provided a real emotionally heavy reason for the player being a Big Daddy. Rather than just saying it would be cool as with the main game.

Old Hunters is still amazing I don't see Bram Stoker-esque Horror as a problem and it really helps ease into the complexity of Lovecraftian Horror

Where the Bloodborne dlc shines are the boss fights, excluding the blue man group. The level design isn't exactly much different from what we had previously, but the difficulty does ramp up significantly along with the boss fights being some of the best in the whole business. Also all of the new weapons they added are all actually quite interesting and some are even unique as well.

Fishing hamlet is probably the most atmospheric place in any of the SoulsBorne series. The piles of shells, the corals on the wall, the mutated fish-like enemies, the vista where you can see Kos, the enemies sound effects, the rain... I could go on. The Bosses were amazing and meaningful as well. Hey, ever wondered who that Ludwing guy was? Yeah, the one who used that kickass sword? Well, here it is, bossfight Hey, ever wondered on who the doll was based on? here, lady maria, bossfight. The Old Hunter is amazing, just as Artorias of The Abyss was. I'd say it was even better, because of the level design ( wich in AoTA was mediocre in the first& last level) and because of how many weapons it added. ( BTW you comparing Blighttown to Fishing Hamlet because of a ladder and comparing the Reaserch Hall to the Duke's Archives because of the spinning stairs made me laugh out loud because of how stupid it was.)

Can't disagree enough. Smells like bias because somebody likes Dark Souls more. The Old Hunters is as good as AotA in every way. If The Old Hunters is "skippable" then so is AotA. People were crying out for more backstory on The Doll, Laurence and Germahn and we got it. Both DLCs cover past events leading to prior game so I don't see what's so different between them.

You totally missed the mark this time. The Old Hunters is at least on par with Artorias of the Abyss and it adds to Bloodborne a lot more than what AotA added to Dark Souls. If there's an exemple of excellent additional content for a Souls game, that's The Old Hunters.

How convenient you brought up the Living Failures but not Maria or Ludwig when talking about TOH. Of course this DLC was going to cover the past, that's what it is and was always going to be, they never said other wise. A great one was the main plot point of the whole damn DLC, too.

Now that I've played The Old Hunters, I have to take issue with just calling it "fine." I believe it has some of the best level design in Bloodborne and some of the best bosses in gaming period.

I feel like SBH overlooked alot of the same things that I did after beating the DLC. After seeing Vaati's analysis I understand that story better, but also my favorite thing is how the dlc's first area takes place in the ocean below the third area. (You can see Yharnam's Nightmare down there, and the masts are all visible from nightmare frontier, which can also see nightmare mensis. fucking nuts) All of the nightmare areas from the base game and dlc are actually visually connected. Nightmare Frontier is above the Fishing Hamlet, Nightmare Mensis is in the distance as well, and Hunter's Nightmare is below those. When you think about what the game talks about with greater planes of existence and oceans, it actually adds tons of depth to less obvious aspects of the nature main game that hearken back to what ash lake represented in DS1. Rom's lair under Byrgenwerth makes me now wonder whether the main game is real or even what the nature of real even is for Bloodborne. Alot of the content that is sourced from the main game is done so with extreme purpose to make a statement about the world and recontextualize it. It is pretty overwhelming on a first playthrough, though. I did play the dlc in a fresh playthrough. I played BB originally on a friend's PS4 twice, so this was my first time going through the game on my own system and I worked the dlc into that as well. It flows pretty well from the later areas of BB (the best time to play it would probably be directly before Nightmare Frontier) The bosses seem incredibly imposing and borderline unfair, but tricks like "Dodge to the side where Ludwig has less arms" and learning how important backstabs are to the OoK fight make them seem much less impossible. I might not replay the chalice dungeons again, but I'll definitely work the DLC into every playthrough. It's some of the best content in the game.

I think The Old Hunters is really good, much more than only alright. It introduces SO many more cool weapons to the game, and the bosses are amazing (and amazingly hard, for the most part). It does focus more on the "Bram Stoker-esque" side of things, rather than the Lovecraft side of things, but I honestly don't mind that at all. Bloodborne has a way of just mixing the fucked-up diseased beasts with the weird alien gods, and it all just flows so seamlessly thematically. It's kind of it's own thing.

If you think The Old Hunters was lacking in depth, you really didnt pay attention to what was unfolding as you played, your surroundings, or NPCs

I agree with Bunny's overall point about DLC, but using The Old Hunters as an example of "just okay" DLC I gotta disagree with. Pretty much everything you said was so great about AotA applies to TOH as well, so I don't really understand his argument here.

I am so happly to see most of you guys disagreeing with this man's opinions about BB DLC. This is a great DLC, comment after you beat it.

2:02 so the fishing hamlet is comparable to blighttown because it has ladder? Not even close. Its completely different. The old hunters DLC is great and is arguably the best From have ever made. It's a must play for each playthrough as it elevates the game to a new level. It fleshes out storyline and characters, adds new weapons, and has some of the best bosses in any game IMO.

Imo, the Bloodborne DLC is amazing purely for the weapon additions, which shores up the base game's major weakness (i.e. lack of weapons). I also think the level design progresses in an interesting way, starting with the hodge-podge of older set pieces mixed with new bits of level that is the Hunter's Nightmare, progressing to the weirder mad experiments of the Research Hall, and area that recalls the Dukes Archives but does it way better, and ending with the violated Fishing Hamlet, an excellent Innsmouth-inspired area with level design that I would very much call its own. Not to mention each of the bosses (aside from the Living Failures) are all top notch and do interesting things with the boss concept: Ludwig changing drastically accompanied with a mid-battle cutscene; Lady Maria being probably the fastest and most aggressive boss in the series; and the Orphan of Kos just doing a lot of weird things like beating you to death with its placenta. Overall I'd say it's just as high quality as the AotA DLC. The only real difference is AotA follows the abysmal second half of Dark Souls, while Bloodborne's base game is quality throughout, so the difference in quality isn't as steep.

i actually disagree in regard to artorias of the abyss being better as a expansion, because artorias of the abyss is so separated to the core game "conflict" to the point of being redundant to being just a "optional area", while old hunters storyline is far more connected toward the core "conflict" that is the main game to the point that i was expecting finishing the old hunter's dlc to override the 3 endings of the base game. There is also the fact that...what happend on Artorias of the Abyss stay there, in the fact that...there is nothing you get there that will carry over the the main sections of the game that is significant, just a "recolor" of magic spells that is already on the base game, while the old hunters add more significant things you can use in the base game (it almost double the trick weapon count, the new transformation runes, the new firearms and spells that will affect how people play the core game)

Probably worth noting that the AotA dlc for Dark Souls was mostly cut content from the main game, which is probably the reason it seems more coherent when compared to Bloodborne's dlc which was made after the game was completed. I really enjoyed AtoA, The Old Hunter's and even though I personally regard DaSII the weakest in the franchise, I enjoyed the dlc for that, too. I've no complaints about how FromSoftware handle their dlc whatsoever.

The Bloodborne DLC was amazing... it added not only to the lore but also has one of the best boss fights I’ve ever had. Does simply going down a wooden ladder mean it’s “copying” another game? In that case... there’s been a lot of copying going on since Donkey Kong.

This video was like an acid trip for me. Basically ti starts with "The Old Hunters is "fine" but it isn't as good as Artorias was and I'll probably skip over it the next time I play Bloodborne and also just being "fine" is part of the problem with DLC" and then some stuff in the middle, ending with, "The Old Hunters is one of the first, genuinely good and worth your money pieces of DLC to happen in a really long time". Dude what?

Personally, i thought The Old Hunters was excellent, and added a lot to the story and world of Bloodborne. This guy has a very weird and contradictory way of rating games. I dont know if it is intentional but to this day i cant figure out what he actually likes or dislikes on games. Seroiusly, Artorias of th Abyss is better because it uses more types of lighting and there are characters that talk more? Really? That just seems weird to me.

Two out of the three levels in The old Hunters are up there as some of the best in the entire game. Hardly middling quality DLC if you ask me.

Most souls players actually find the old hunters better than Artorias of the abyss, vaati did a poll and it turned up 68% on ToH.

The Old Hunters > Artorias of the Abyss

Super bunny hop, I got to disagree with you on this one. The old hunters is excellent Dlc. It nearly doubles the amount of playable weapons, had some of the best boss fights in the whole game as well as including more lore than I can mention in this comment. To be frank compared to the rest of the souls borne community you are really unqualified to give your thoughts on the matter. Stick to things you know and leave the bloodborne video to people that have spent more than one playthrough of the game :)

Why are you using stolen footage with cropped watermarks?

Is someone gonna tell this dude Gascoigne isn't a vampire

Probably should have actually played Old Hunters before saying what you did. :P

So what about the disappointment that was Ashes of Ariandel? Two bosses?? Whereas Old Hunters features four bosses worthy of top 10 bosses of all time by perfecting bloodborne's unique mechanics of always dashing regardless of equipment and rewarding aggression via regain. You were punished for dashing with attacks instead of through them, dashing on wakeup after you were staggered, and rewarded for parrying Orphan via regaining all of your health w/o rally or runes. While I agree that DS1 dlc is also phenomenal, I can't comprehend fighting the bosses w/o fast roll, or better yet, dwgr. They all have super high elemental resistances as well, so good luck sorcerers, pyros, and clerics. It's like they wanted to create bosses oriented around dex builds, hmm sounds like another IP that isn't mechanically flawed by having to compensate for medieval fantasy tropes. So when you bring in ds3 with the mechanics of bb in mind while returning to medieval fantasy tropes, you get phenomenal boss fights*, and "why bother with 70% of the content that is heavy armor (poise working as intended), slow weapons, 5 stats, magic (and all the areas, rings, NPCs, stats, and quest lines associated w/ magic), shields, poison, and covenants (no offline benefit, and online mechanics are shit)"? *if you're sub 70% equip burden and are using fast-recovery melee weapons.

Have to disagree with you on this one. I liked the Old Hunters DLC more than the Artorias of the Abyss DLC (and this is coming from someone who prefers vanilla Dark Souls over vanilla Bloodborne). I think you were a bit unfair for the Old Hunters. Like CrownieCrown said, the OH does give a lot more backstory to the main game. Also, maybe not all the bosses were great (living failures, that cleric beast reskin) but it also had some of the best bossfights in the game (Maria (waifu4laifu btw)). And lastly, if ladders are bad leveldesign, well then fuck me is From soft bad at making levels.

I disagree... Completely... With the Bloodborne/Dark Souls comparisons...

Funnily enough, I think Old Hunters is some of the best DLC to be released for virtually any game. Definitely in my top 3 for DLC. It adds masses of extra play time to the game, some amazingly unique and tough as hell bosses, some really fun weapons, and really interesting levels with lore all tied into it. This expanded on the original and added more, which is exactly what a DLC should do. Plus it was really reasonably priced (even more so these days). Gotta agree with most other comments here and say this video really missed the mark.

the hypocrisy in this video is unbelievable... he loves AotA but the old hunters is just meh, even though the dlc has the same layout as AotA, I can't disagree with him more

George, I am having an absolute trip going back and watching your older videos. A lot of these topics really need to be revisited, discussing trends in the over half a decade or more. I'd watch the hell out of that.

Old Hunter is the perfect example of how you nail the dlc,it had some of my favorite locations in any game like The Hunter's Nightmare , Research Hall ,Fishing Hamlet.Bosses like Ludwig, The Holy Blade ,Orphan of Kos,Lady Maria and Weapons like Whirligig Saw and Rakuyo and it perfectly completes the story.The dlc is bloodborne at its finest and it completes the game that many sequels just fail to do and it left me satisfied with my experience unlike any other,i really dont get why you think otherwise i enjoy your videos but this is just plain awful and wrong in so many ways especially when you compare it to Artorias of the Abyss

On the 'rehashes level design concepts from previous Souls games' idea, I think that might be the point to some degree. It's taking the concept of a world that doesn't connect together in a way you'd expect and loading it with familiarity so it feels even more uncanny because you have expectations of how these areas ought to exist relative to the space around them. In a space of a few minutes you go from Demon's Souls to Bloodborne to Dark Souls in one area, but funnily never Dark Souls II. It's basically Silent Hill, but even as a huge fan of SH, The Old Hunters did it better. Beyond that, the additional weapons are absolutely essential, and unless you're happy with the lore being a weird Lovecraftian mystery you can never hope to understand, the lore is absolutely essential too.

When George showed Opposing Force as an example of great DLC I cheered.

im actually quite surprised how george didnt fall in love with the old hunters. i mean even the research hall is enough to tempt me into going through it multiple times.

Something that wasn't mentioned in this brief discussion of BB's DLC is the inclusion of the new weapons and how accessible they are. Many of them are found in the first area which opens up early on in the game, and can be sprinted to, the enemies are tough so its not easy but it's very doable. A big driving force for replayability is the option of alternate playstyles, and at least for me almost doubling the weapon variety was a huge bonus for the vanilla game. I was never unsatisfied with the vanilla weapons but the new ones really elevated it for me personally, alongside the inclusion of Kin and Beast Modes. I wouldn't say the DLC proper was as good as Artorias either, but it didn't fall too far from it and Simons Bow Blade is fun as hell with a BT build.

Way to ignore everyone in the comments. Bravo

I enjoy that you put an agenda on your videos, putting effort into making a point beyond your opinion of an individual game. It makes the videos stand the test of time and contribute to a great collection of commentary on games.

Speaking as somebody who has sunk more hours into Bloodborneh than any other game I've played (except for Pokemon, but only if you combine the time from every game from Gen 3 on) I loved The Old Hunters, and felt it did so much right that it was comparable to Artorias of the Abyss in terms of how it serviced the main game. The Hunter's Nightmare was, in my opinion, the least original of the levels, but it did something game developers rarely get to do: mess with a player's familiarity, which they did expertly. After the Hunter's Nightmare, the Research Hall and Fishing Hamlet were so unfamiliar by comparison that I was amazed how the two really turned the main game's formula of handling enemies on its head. So many of the enemies in the main game could be easily handled by either shooting them constantly until you found the parry timing, or just attacking their backs as they were locked in attack animations. The Old Hunters, by comparison, implements enemies that are faster, hit harder, and are more unpredictable than the vanilla game, but still can be parried by a skilled player. Also, one thing that The Old Hunters did SO much better than the main game, in my opinion, was boss battles. where there were 17 bosses in the vanilla game, only about half of them were really great boss fights, while the others fell into mediocrity, with Mergo's Wet Nurse, Micolash, and the Moon Presence being notable examples. Contrast with The Old Hunters, which only has 5 boss battles, but only one of them (which just happens to be the only one you showed) can be called mediocre. Ludwig and Laurence are excellent boss fights that really push the envelope in terms of challenge, whereas Maria felt just as amazing as the Gehrman boss fight (I consider those to be the best fights in the entire game) and the Orphan of Kos, while it seems like one of the weaker fights at first, really pushes the boundaries of a final boss fight where I feel the Moon Presence failed. When I got my first 50 hours into Bloodborne, I was ready to name it my favorite game of all time, but I still couldn't decide whether or not it had outperformed Dark Souls, but then I realized that I was comparing Bloodborne's vanilla game to Dark Souls + Artorias of the Abyss, and withheld my judgement of which was better until the Old Hunters came out. Well, now that I've played it thoroughly, I've named Bloodborne my favorite game that I've ever played, because I felt its DLC did just as much for it as Artorias of the Abyss did for Dark Souls. But that's just my opinion, which you are free to ignore if you like.

ummm how much are you involved with the Bloodborne lore community? because they can tell ya just how essential TOH has been to solving BB's story. seriously, without this DLC, BB's lore was too ambiguous and drove people insane..... now we've finally got some answers and people are starting to feel satisfied

As of 2018, I genuinely look back at Ludwig The Accursed as the greatest boss fight of the entire series.

Been waiting for a new video for a while, it was worth it. Thanks for your content!

Even if it's quality wasn't the main core of the review, I personally have to disagree with you over The Old Hunters. I was genuinely surprised by how much I enjoyed TOH. I felt it both expounded on and built upon the foundation of Bloodborne's lore beautifully, while re-embracing some of the Souls Series's famous open-but-winding level design. It also contains a lovingly crafted* "artist's recreation" of Shadows over Innsmouth and some of the best boss battles in the game let alone the "series." Also, I don't know if I should be surprised that you didn't mention Dark Souls 2's DLC, as I'm sure anyone that realized how not very "Souls-like" it was voiced their disappointment by not buying any of the three DLC areas. But here's the irony: DaS2's DLC is so good one might be surprised as to why it's even attached to DaS2. To this day I load up DaS2 and fly through the garbage just to experience Old Iron King. I know, it's a lot of garbage... but all three DLCs are really, really good. *I swear to god, there was no pun intended when I typed that out. I would not blame anyone for ignoring this entire comment after reading that accidental pun... but I can't bring myself to delete it. Forgive me.

Uh... Listen. George. I know you're at that stage in life when you think that things are all "campy" and "not to be taken seriously" unless they're basically Apocalypse Now; you're the type of person that, if we let you have your way, you'll manage to explain 9/11 away as a unserious parody of terrorism that we should all have campy jolly-good time with -- every critic goes through that phase. That's fine. The problem is how you're letting it completely colour your perspective of the things you're making a critique of. The way you compare The Old Hunters to Artorias Of The Abyss speaks volumes about this, to me. It reeks of someone who took a certain piece of fiction as serious as it asked to be taken, but is now unable to. This is ultimately just your opinion and clearly a lot of people disagree, but beyond doing yourself a disservice, you're doing others a disservice by convincing them of something that can never be anything more than your _subjective_ perspective of things. Bloodborne really _isn't_ that light-hearted Transylvania romp through Castlevania Town that you've, on more than one occasion, seem to want other to believe that it is. It doesn't take long to understand this. The game literally feeds you this fact with every line of dialogue. The fact that you've dismissed Bloodborne's plot and lore both away because of how you perceive the whole package disallowed you to see the connections explained in The Old Hunters. That's where the problem began with this particular case but I'm sure there were others if I looked hard enough. Taking fantasy fiction seriously when it asks it of you while retaining a degree of sense and reason about it, it's a _skill_. Not all fiction has to be taken the way it was initially intended to be taken, now, but we have to agree that, by not doing so, it's likely we'll be missing part of the point in the process. In this case, I think _the_ _point_ of Bloodborne just went way, _way_ over your head. Ultimately, it's a skill acquired by reading a lot of fiction. It doesn't mean you take videogames too seriously, it means you're experiencing X piece of fiction how it was intended to be experienced. It's like having fun with children's cartoons at age 25, only in reverse. Creating an analogy about how Bloodborne is like Kid Dracula for the GameBoy is just as inherently silly as saying Pokemon is about child labour.

Personally I felt that the bosses in Old Hunters, namely Maria, Orphan, and Ludwig, were all better than the already good bosses in vanilla. The Research Hall has a similar aesthetic to Dukes Archive but its a much more varied experience, with NPCs to talk to for a quest, a hidden area, and even the option to use stealth.

Just started to follow your page and watch your videos, but I have to say (like most of the people in the comment section) that it was probably your laziest video analysis. Lore wise: the DLC is a great complement to the vanilla game (specially from the research hall forward). The character of Maria, her involvement (possibly with Gherman) in the Fishing Hamlet massacre, the fact that the first umbilical chord in the possession of Willem could have been the one extracted from Kos when the scholars of Byrgenwerth experimented with it's body/carcass "A corpse... should be left well alone". Just love how you can extrapolate new theories with the DLC that connect so well with the vanilla game. Kudos to the developers.. The setting is just great. Love how they are able to present what a reproduction of a nightmare/dream would look like. You know you are in Cathedral ward, but at the same time you have these beige walls and routes that represent the information you can't fully process/render when dreaming of having a nightmare. Fishing hamlet is such a great place. So mysterious and horrific with all the lovecraftian elements (so lazy to say it a rehashed version of Blighttown). The clock tower you fight Maria, the balcony full of flowers on the first floor of the research hall (great contrast with the horrors of the main building), the beach you fight Kos. Amazing details.... The boss fights: Name me a boss fight in Bloodborne more epic than the Orphan of Kos boss fight. The setting, the presentation, the viciousness of the boss, THE ENDING.... "A bottomless curse, a bottomless sea, accepting of all that there is and can be".. The boss fights against Ludwig and Lawrence. I get that they aren't that creative or groundbreaking, but they are certainly more satisfying than the ones against Vicar Amelia, Cleric beast or Blood Starved Beast (I'll give you that the moonlight sword thing was a bit far fetched). The fight against Maria... So epic man... Specially if you don't use gunparry you can have one of the most epic one on one battles ever and truly display your skill as a hunter.. The weapons: Amazing feature of the DLC. The number of weapons, the quality, the connection to the lore (specially Marias Rakuyo) and the fact you have a weapon for every build (quality, blood and arcane). Bloodletter is such a badass weapon.... In the end of the day, if you think the DLC is skipable you are just missing a super important part of the game (bosses, settings, weapons and lore). For me, it's hands down the best DLC from FSoftware (followed by the Ringed City and by AotA).

Thank you Superbunnyhop, for always giving very thoughtful and well written reviews, commentary, explanation and some brilliant opinions. That are based on comment sense, most of the time facts. Keep up the good work!

Old Hunters was better in nearly every way than the original Dark Souls DLC. The bosses in the Dark Souls DLC were great but the rest of it was mediocre. The bosses. environments and enemies in Old Hunters were all exceptional. It was a lot longer and had more content too.

Why didn't you bring up Dark souls 2 dlc?

I am sorry...but i have to disagree, the old hunters DLC tells a story that is self contained, while still revealing a lot about a character that we hadn't known anything about up until the DLC: The Doll (and gehrman) In an era where we get 30 dollar season passes and weapon/armor packs as DLC's, calling the old hunters "a fine but not great DLC" is something i am not willing to do. You have to consider that dark souls was an unpolished and unfinished game rushed out to the masses on a pre-scheduled release date, and slightly fixed at a later date. That is why the DLC pack felt better, because it was finished! Bloodborne is inherently polished and squeaky clean perfect to the smallest of details. It is already such a massive and amazing experience, that a DLC pack comes just as an extra, a really well done, and well put together extra. It has well designed areas, 4 pretty amazing bosses, and one that is kinda...eh...but they needed to be "eh" (talking about the living failures... i mean, their point is in their name, so they're not a negative, the poor things), new weapons and a whole lot more. I think the old hunters and artorias of the abyss are off the same borderline quality, but Dark Souls needed a DLC more than bloodborne did. Dark Souls needed an expansion of it's lore, and it fit indefinitely well. Now i will agree that AOTA did more creative things with what tools had at their expose, but for some reason didn't do in the original game. Yes i know you mentioned re-used designs that are callbacks to dark souls 1, and i getcha, i really do see why you think what you do...i just really do not agree with it. if you've read this, i want to hear what you think about what i think about what you think...imminent inception joke.

The Bloodborne dlc was brilliant, the bosses felt more evolver and every part in those 3 areas connects to its story

I simply don't agree. I think we can agree that the hunter's nightmare area felt kind of half baked, but it was decent, and it introduced a lot of good new items and two incredibly memorable bosses. Fishing Hamlet and Research hall? These are two of the most frightening and awe inspiring moments in bloodborne for me. The way it hooks the terror that you feel in the research hall with the sense of sadness that you get when viewing the atrocities of the healing church. It primes you for the fishing village and a horrendously tragic boss fight with another atrocity. Ludwig and Maria feel just as essential to Bloodborne as Artorias does to Dark Souls for me. Just because Old Hunters isn't exactly cutting edge for From Soft, doesn't mean it cannot be an excellent DLC.

It seems like you've been a lot more cynical and harsh in the past few months. Old Hunters did everything AotA did and more. Ludwig, Maria, and Orphan of Kos are some of the best bosses in the entire game, and the new weapons are phenomenal. This is the only "review" I've come across that says Old Hunters is less than great.

this guy does such great videos, ive been impressed with almost every single one hes put out for years.

Dark Souls 2 dlcs was nice, each had something interesting and unique to it.

this is the guy who said the chalice dungeons don't level you up enough or drop good loot lmao

The Old Hunters DLC is easily the best content in Bloodborne.

I think the greatest contribution of the Bloodborne DLC were 3 excellent boss fights (Lady Maria, Ludwig, Orphan of Kos) and the 10 new weapons. They were incredible and cathartic to use (outside the Boom Hammer) and felt extremely distinct from the existing armory, and each gave me an excuse to play the game again with a different build.

Happy New Year George. Thanks for another interesting video, we seem to be starting the year on the right foot :)

Woah, everyone is so civil about disagreeing. 0_0

I think this is probably one of your not so great critiques George. Opinions will always be subjective, thats fair enough. But comparing Fishing Hamlet(an area that is loved by nearly everyone for evoking Lovecraft) to Blightown(one of the hated areas in Dark Souls) and the Research Hall to Dukes Archives is rather shallow and just scraping at the barrel here. not hating on you, but I feel like you didnt do enough research on the Old Hunters or chose to play it with a negative mindset. The Witcher's DLC will definitely be fantastic(they proved it with Heart Of Stones) but the comparison cant be equal. One is full of lore and details while the other is story driven and character focused with dialogues(both are different stuff). Agree about DLC being used for bad business examples for the other games though, not Bloodborne.

Excellent, Essay level commentary. Glad I found you on Game Theory!

Never got into playing this game but stumbled on VaatiVidya's channel a while back and have watched most of his videos on the game series. The story and thought that has gone into the game makes me marvel at (and be thankful for) this wonderful medium we have for telling stories, and developers trusting gamers to actually get what is going on while giving us such fantastic gameplay. Happy New Year SuperBunny Hop :) I am looking forward to more of your great content in 2016 so keep doing that voodoo you do do so well.

I honestly disagree completely with your opinion on the Old Hunters and think it is a great addition to the game's lore and gameplay due to it offering very fresh weapons like the Bow Blade and Amygdala arm that can change play styles completely. Plus Maria is one of the best Boss fights in Bloodborne imo.