Luc Adriaenssens : Thanks ! Glad the video helped to diagnose the issue. Now that winter is coming and it is cooler in the evenings, mine faulted on the segment sensor that is in the back a week ago so I made a video for that as well in case someone has that issue also. It’s up on my KZfaq channel now if anyone needs it...Steve

delo85 , hey man...thanks 👍. So when you hit the button to retract the top, does the motor make a bad grinding noise or no noise at all? Also, went you tried with the hex key, does it make popping noises when you turn it or just acts like it’s not getting a grip in the hex hole? Reason I’m asking is, if the motor is just grinding or the hex key pops when turned then it is probably going to be the gears that the motor turns to unlatch the top from the window top. Just let me know if it’s grinding or not and maybe we can figure out what to do next, Steve

Hey man, is the red light blinking on the center console where the buttons are to open and close the top? If so, I’d say the segment sensor may be not reading the correct segment so it won’t let the back window move. If it’s not blinking, but the window won’t move, I’d suspect the window motor, the relays to the window motor, or maybe a fuse. Let me know which your seeing and maybe we can get it figured out 👍. All the best ! Steve

Hey man ! Thanks...glad the video helped some 👍. The good news on your’s from what it sounds like is that it’s trying to run the full sequence, but is stopping trying to finish one step to go on to the next. Like you said, after it lifts the wings, it should then switch the pump over to the compartment lift cylinders and raise it up. In order to switch the pump valve, it needs to know that the wings are fully up from the segment sensor attached to the wing lift mechanism though (I believe the sensor is shown in this video, but if not is definitely in the checking the segment sensor video on the channel). If the sensor is not reading the correct segment, it keeps trying to lift the wings by running the pump so that may be what you are hearing. If you want to check to see if it’s the sensor reading slightly off, you can run the cycle till it gets to that point again, then have someone gently wiggle the driver wing up and down a bit. If it picks up the right segment and takes off lifting the compartment then I’d say the segment sensor was slightly off due to wetting the top and it relaxing which seems to change how well it hits the correct position on the segment sensor sometimes. Mine acted up in the fall when the temp changed until I finally changed the segment sensor out when it finally died. Maybe give that a try (wiggling the wing when the wing is up) to see if it will then continue on with the cycle. If that doesn’t work, comment back and we can think on through other things it might be 👍. Just let me know and all the best ! Steve

@@StevesDIYs Hi Steve You are a genius! It worked just as you said. I also used your video regarding the faulty segment sensor in the rear wing to identify the what I was searching for. After four days of messing around, I tried your video’s. Five minutes after your advice the roof was back in action. I also gave it a small squirt of electrical switch contact spray for good measure. Cycled a few times without fault. Not sure if it is worth replacing as I don’t fancy this recurring 100 miles from home but at least I know where this particular issue lays.I couldn’t have done this without your advice and excellent videos. Thanks again! It is people like you that empower us mere mortals and make a visit to rip off dealerships, less common. All the best! Robert👌

@@robert1616 , thanks man and thanks for the compliment ! Glad you got it working again and that was all it was 👍. They can be kind of grumpy at times I’ve found lol, but most times it’s just one of the sensors acting up. Yep, if it does it again at least you’ll know what to try first...hopefully it won’t give anymore problems 👍. I actually started making the videos for the channel because I couldn’t find any info on the top when mine first messed up years ago and when I called a dealer, they were honest enough to tell me they really didn’t have anyone with any knowledge on the top anymore since they were getting older. I figured others were going to be in the same situation as me eventually. Glad the videos were helpful and I could help out with getting it going again. All the best ! Steve

Hello, does it actually close the latch hooks so far that they don’t hook under the latch pins in the pockets above the window? If so, it could be that the rods inside the short front section of the soft top need adjusting or it might be that the soft top material has shrunk a bit and not allowing the short front section to come down. It actually starts to move the latches a little just as it’s lowering the short section as both of these movements are controlled by the latching motor. If you still have the plastic cover off the area where the motor and cables are, you should be able to see how the arms pull on the rods to lower the short section down. If you begin the closing and it gets to the point of latching, you can release the close button and it will stop so you can check to be sure nothing is binding, then press it again while pulling down on the short section and release to slowly allow the latches to engage.

Hey man ! Yep, it’s been a few years, but seems like I had to pop the AC hard lines out of the plastic holder (or remove the holder…can’t remember) so they could be pushed to the side so the cover would clear them. For the plug tubes, seems like I rocked the valve cover back and forth so the lower ends of the tubes pushed against the head in the pockets and then they popped out of the cover. They are only sandwiched between the cover and the head. I replaced the tubes as well when I did the gaskets so I wasn’t too worried about them getting damaged as a couple of mine were leaking oil around the spark plugs. I’ll be doing all of this again soon for my stem seals replacement so I get to experience the joy of this soon as well unfortunately.

@@StevesDIYs Tah much for the input. I'll go with your suggestion. My tubes had a good seal as i see no oil at the spark plug recesses. Will lyk how i get on. Not that i have a valve stem seal issue - but did research it when looking at another 650 that smoked badly after idling and could only find one DIY video on it by a South African which does an ok job of it - nonetheless, i think you'll garner a bunch of traffic with such a video! When you do, make the whole valve cover replacement exhaustive cuz there's no video of such on the E63/4 engine bay, they are all about the 5 Series and X5 mostly. Found only one on the 6 series by Chinese guy with no audio or subtitles! Best.

juan Pablo Sanchez , hey man, thanks for the comment 👍. If you are hearing grinding as the last section of the top closes, most likely it is the gears in the motor that also does the final latching of the top to the windshield. This latching motor also pulls the cables in the top to pull the last section down as well. The gears in the motor are made of plastic so it’s becoming more common that they wear out now that the cars are getting older. There’s another video on the channel called “BMW e64 Top Latching Motor issue diagnosis...grinding when trying to open” that shows the issue and how to replace the gears...maybe it will help some. Here’s a link to it: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Z9ajlKhkutCRcoE.html . All the best ! Steve

Thank you very much steve for the reply and the link. Luckily I was able to make the top latch down, however while driving it still gives the top not locked warning and noise. So what your saying is that I can either change the gears or the motor to correct the problem ?

Thank you once again for the quick reply, i will definitely subscribe!

juan Pablo Sanchez , if the grinding noise is coming from the area in the middle above the rear view mirror (where the hole is to put the Allen key in to manually lock or unlock the top) I would say it’s the motor gears for sure. If it is coming from that area, yes, the options would be a new motor or replacing the gears in the motor. The motor is pretty expensive vs. just the gears though, but would be easier then having to open the motor up to fix it. Hope this helps 👍, Steve

Steve’s DIYs awesome thank you.

Thanks ! Yep, I sometimes have to help mine a little when it first pops up the small section in the front as well. That movement is actually controlled by the same motor that does the latching/unlatching of the hooks that connect the soft top to the front windshield frame. There are two levers that this motor pulls just at the end of the unlatching movement that are connected to adjustable tensioning rods (one on each side). If you stop the top movement (release the button) just as the top opens this section and look in between the inside liner and the outside of the top canvas, there are little bars with pivots on them. These could possibly be adjusted to make the movement better, but I have never adjusted them since mine only does it when the weather is cooler and I don’t mind helping it a little to get it to pop up. Hope this helps and all the best ! Steve

@@StevesDIYs Thanks very much for the prompt reply. I'll see if I can adjust them. Thanks again.

@@ilovesoltan no problem...glad to help 👍. Just in case, I’d probably mark the current location of the adjustable ends to have an initial reference, but you probably already thought of that 👍. All the best ! Steve

Steve Brewer , hey man ! The PC is just a cheap laptop I got that I use to connect up to the different cars I have. The INPA software running on it was a free down load from bimmergeeks.com since I already had the cable for my old ‘98 740il. The cable is a special OBDII cable that is needed to link up to the car that has to be purchased (it’s not expensive though). I had looked around and it looks like a good place to buy a cable is from bcables.com as the software comes with it and says it loads up to the pc pretty easy, but there are other websites selling them as well. The cable needed for this car model is the Silver one...it works for several other models as well since it has the k-Dcan switch on it though. Hope this helps, Steve

Hey man ! Yes, out on the channel in the 650i playlist, there’s a video on how to retract the top manually (I believe it helps to also disconnect the battery to reduce the resistance of the motors above the front window as well as the rear window motor). Also, if you do retract the soft top manually, but still have a sensor fault after looking at it, once the cables in the trunk are pulled, it will no longer allow the side windows to be raised until the sensor fault is corrected. There is a way around this though and there’s an additional video I did that shows how to re-latch the compartment lid (the opposite of pulling the cables) which will allow the side windows to work again until the sensor fault can be fixed. Hope this helps and all the best! Steve

Thanks sir, I truly appreciate you

Yes, from what I’ve found, the issues are mainly with the locking mechanism or sensors above the windshield in the top ( when the top is closed) or with the segment sensor in the back. It’s hard to diagnose without the software, but I think it is free now from the web and the OBD II cable is under 40 USD now. Hope you can get it fixed...it gets aggravating when it does not work right for sure.

Boomhauer’s BMWs and others what is the name of software ?

Hey man, yes, the top can be opened manually…here’s a link to a video I did for the process: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ebaUiLictK2reY0.html . The rear window needs to be fully down and I believe if you disconnect the battery it allows for the motors to be rotated manually easier. You’ll probably need to watch a couple more videos I’ll send links to in just a minute as the KZfaq comments only let me clip one link at a time.

When unlatching the soft top from the front window (after pulling the handles in the trunk), be sure to keep turning the motor that’s above the front window even after the latches release as this motor also does the lifting for the small front section of the soft top. Once it’s lifted up well away from the top of the window, it’s ready to be folded open. Also if your rear window won’t go down, here’s a link for how to do that as well: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qLSaZq1qy5bdlnk.html .

And finally, if you run into problems (like the top still has an error and won’t cycle automatically) and want to manually close it back till you can get a replacement part, once you pull the cables in the trunk to move it manually, if there’s still an error, the car won’t let you raise any of the side or back windows (it’s a safety feature to prevent damaging the windows). To get the windows to go back up if the top is still faulted after the manual movement, you will need to rematch the compartment trunk latches manually, but BMW didn’t really plan for this so it’s a bit tricky. Here’s a link to how to re-engage the compartment latches in case it’s needed: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/abelltionsWoe6s.html . Hope this helps and all the best ! Steve

Hello, I’m not familiar with the Z4 convertible top, but I looked up the code and it relates to what looks like an issue with a motor reaching the stall voltage (like when a window fully closes), but the sensor that detects it closed was not reached. Are you having an issue with the back window maybe? If so it might be that there is too much resistance for the widow to make the complete travel to either fully opened or closed. Sorry I couldn’t help much, but hope you get it working again, Steve

John Hindman , hello...the software is called INPA and since the cars are not the latest gen, it is now available for free as a download off sites like BimmerGeeks and others. Just a tip though, I use a cheap laptop dedicated to the software since I don’t trust free software downloads (some actually tell you to disable your firewalls and antivirus to get it to run, lol). I bought the cheap blue RAM drive PC, hooked it up to the internet, downloaded the software, then disabled the WiFi, and then extracted the files and let it initialize the software. The pc will never be hooked up to my WiFi ever again just to be safe. So far it has worked flawlessly 👍

keith waring , is the top closed now (covering the car and attached to the top of the windshield)? Also, was it closed when you pulled the cables in the trunk or was it retracted and in the compartment when you pulled them?

keith waring , you can put the rear window up manually with the Allen key crank that’s in the trunk (or the same size long Allen wrench). There’s a video in my channel that shows how to do it, but go slow and be careful or you’ll strip out the Allen hole in the motor. That won’t fix the trunk not opening issue though...It will not open until the red light is no longer blinking. You can normally use your metal key that’s in the fob to open the trunk though even if the red light is blinking. Till you can determine what is faulting the mechanism.

It's not the same set up as the one in the video

Ah, yes, the F12 is probably different than the e64 in some ways...didn’t realize that’s what you were referring to in the reply with “Ok 2012 red light...”. There still should be a way to bring the rear window up manually, but I’m not familiar with the F series.

And the rear window doesn't go up...

keith waring , hey man, were you closing the top manually for an issue it was having? When you pull the cables it prevents the trunk from automatically unlocking and also the rear window from moving because both of these would interfere with the top if you were closing it in an emergency (like the hydraulics failed or something). If there are no errors with the top movement you should be able to close the top manually over the car by pulling it out of the compartment and expanding it (best to use one person on each side when lifting it). Since it sounds like the cables are pulled (they hold the compartment lid down), you can manually lift the compartment lid up, the grab the top by the part that connects to the windshield upper and slowly pull it out. Hold the wings up as they come up so they don’t catch on anything as well. Then lower the compartment lid (it will drop slowly by itself), then push the wings back down on the closed lid. If all is ok with the sensors you should be able to press the top close button like normal and it will finish the cycle by doing the final closing of the front small section and then latching of the top to the windshield top. If it will do that, then it will automatically re-latch the cables and raise the back window like normal right at the last...then it should gong that is complete. All if that is if there are no errors on any sensors...if there was a fault that caused an issue, it may not complete the cycle, but it try that first to see if it will finish the cycle once you have the top out, lid down, and wings back down (the front of the top above the windshield should still be up about 8”...no need to push it all the way down before pressing the button to see if it will complete the movement and re-latch. If it won’t complete the cycle, just let me know and we’ll try the next step to get things functioning again👍. Steve

Prophet DA Berry , I feel your pain ! When mine was faulting I always had that anxious feeling every time I opened the up...not knowing if it would close and lock properly. If the car faults enough times it will disable the functions and won’t do anything. You can try taking the battery loose for a few mins and then hooking it back up to see if it will let you put the windows back up. If you can get the top to open up, you can also remove the plastic cover that is over the latch drive system and then close it and manually rotate the drive cables to the latches till the little sensors read home till you can get the latch system repaired. Hopefully you can get it straightened out so you can enjoy driving it again 👍.

Hello, the software is called INPA. It is free from several websites that sell the OBDii cable that is needed to connect up to these cars. The cable needed is the one they call the “Silver” one (not the blue one). If you are thinking to buy the cable that the software supports. All the best ! Steve

skynz711 , hello, yes a back window issue will stop the operation of the convertible top for sure as the car needs to know that the window is fully down before it will begin the top opening or closing movement. It could be that the Salmon (pink colored) relay in the trunk that lowers the window went bad so the window did not fully go down or it could be an issue with the hall sensor that detects the window fully down is bad or did not sense the window is down. The relay one is an easy check, just swap the two Salmon colored relays in the trunk (one makes the back window go up, the other makes it go down), then try to lower the window with the button. If you hear (or see) it lower just a little more then try the top again. If this doesn’t work, then it could be a bad hall sensor for the rear window preventing the car from knowing the rear window is down. I actually just did a couple of videos on how to reset the tabs that are pulled to manually close the top and also how to remove the rear window module to repair a bad hall sensor, but don’t have them uploaded to the channel yet...maybe tomorrow I can get them edited and loaded for you. Re-latching the manual latches once they are pulled was not something that BMW thought about having to do, but it can be done fairly easily through the trunk. If you want to try swapping the Salmon relays for the window to see if one went bad, but are not sure which ones they are, you can look at the “failed hydraulic pump relay” video on my channel and I reference the to Salmon window ones that sit beside each other in the trunk at about the 5:30 time mark in the vid. Just pull them and swap their places to see if the rear window will move. Hope this helps...if not, I’ll see if I can load the other vids tomorrow that should help get it working again.

@@StevesDIYs Thanks for the quick reply Steve! Of course swapping the relays would be too easy, lol! The window didn't move at all. I'm also confused about whether or not the hall sensor just senses whether or not the window is up or down to activate the top, or would it actually prevent the window itself from moving up and down? Or would that be the rear window module itself? Either way, i'll look for the hall sensor replacement video whenever you post it.

skynz711 , hello again, yep, just having a bad relay would have been awesome (like the hydraulic issue I had a bit ago), but most times it’s not that easy for sure :( . The rear window hall sensor only senses if the rear window is down and doesn’t really affect the movement of the glass EXCEPT if it is bad and not able to send a signal at all. For the case I had with one of my other Subscribers cars that lived close by so he dropped it by the house for me to look at, the hall sensor was corroded so the car registered it as a fault. With it not sending any signal, the car halted everything (including the back window movement ), so it would not damage the back window mechanics...sounds a lot like what you are seeing. After pulling the tabs to manually put up the top, if there is still a fault on the back window module, the car is really mad and most everything stops working on the top...including the side windows it seems (and of course the trunk will no longer pop so you have to open it with the physical key). The video on how to re-latch the tabs after pulling them should give you a sigh of relief that it you are back to where you were before pulling them, then the other video on removing the back module and checking the hall sensor and motor should help diagnose if there is an issue there. I think KZfaq will notify you when the videos load up on the channel since you subscribed. Let me know once you can dig into the car if you get it fixed. Always remember...it’s just a machine (although it can be a frustrating one sometimes, lol !)

@@StevesDIYs Thanks for the help bro, i'll let you know what i find!

skynz711 , I saw your comment from today (I almost missed it as for some reason it did not tie to a specific video). Sorry to hear you still don’t have it working again :( . Unfortunately, the only way to test if the Hall effect sensors are turning off and on when the windows or top won’t move is to manually move each part and watch INPA on the hall sensor screen to see if they turn off and on (the screen circles turn black and white). In the “Convertible Top Not Locking Part 1...” video, at the 20 min : 30 sec mark, you can see the back window circle turn black when I move it (but mine is working so it is easy). To check yours, you will need to take the Torx tool and manually move the window by turning the motor. If you still have the other back window module you can look on the side of the motor and there is a hole with a torx bit star at the center of the motor that allows the motor to be turned. It is accessible in between the seats with the module in the car. To check the other hall sensors you have to do the same...pull the tabs in the trunk, then lift the body cover that the top is under and watch the INPA screen to be sure it detects that the lid is fully open, crank the front latch fully latched and fully unlatched and see if the INPA circles change state. I need to do a video of the hall sensor screen from INPA like I did for the Segment sensors that show the screen as well as the car as it cycles...that may help you to see which once are made at what time during the sequence. I’ll try to do that tomorrow after work and get it posted up so you’ll have it for reference to check yours.

Vahid Zarei , hello...can you describe the issue some?

Hello, that’s a difficult one as it could be quite a few things causing it to not function at all. Will the 4 side windows and the rear window still go down when you use the buttons on the door? If so, at least the convertible electronic module is working and most likely it is waiting because a sensor on the soft top is not in position. It may be that you’ll have to get a copy of INPA and the silver OBDii cable (like what I used in the video) to diagnose which sensor is not in position. There are several videos out on the channel that go over different issues with the soft top…one of them shows the status of each of the Hall effect sensors as the top makes its movements and when it is fully open or full closed. Maybe the other videos will be of some help 👍.

@@StevesDIYs thank you for the quick reply. The windows are not working with the buttons on the driver's door

@@MyMathex , no problem 👍. I would say if it was me, I would definitely go ahead and get a communications cable and INPA to see what’s going on. The INPA software is a free download from several sites that sell the cable as well (I got my copy from Bimmergeeks.com that’s at the top of the screen on the blue PC I use). I’ve had a couple of cars come to visit me (folks that watched the videos on the channel and lived within a few hours of where I live), that weren’t working and when their mechanic tried the manual top opening procedure they stripped the rear window motor so then it wouldn’t go down anymore. INPA should let you move the rear window using the software unless there is a motor issue or hall sensor bad in the rear window module. There’s a video on the channel as well on how to lower it as BMW doesn’t specify the rotation direction and it can be easily stripped in case folks have to get the top up or down in an emergency). Once you have the software and can get the fault codes and see the sensor states (made or not made), you have a much better chance of getting it going again since, most likely, you’ll have to do the manual opening/closing procedure if a sensor is corroded or faulting. Having the software already available and verified that it will communicate to the car really reduces the stress as once the manual process is started (pulling the pull tabs in the trunk), if any sensor is faulty, nothing will work until the sensor is repaired and the soft top is fully retracted and put into the compartment and faults cleared. Just in case you were going to open the top to look around at the sensors and things, to do the manual procedure, the back window must be lowered or the top will hit it and break it when being manually retracted. The four side windows normally need to be lowered some for it to function automatically, but if careful, they can be fully up when manually opening the top. Sorry for the long reply, but hope this helps some. Steve

@@StevesDIYs I have to retract the soft top fully first then clear the faults if there are any? How do I retract the soft top?

@@StevesDIYs I don't have an INPA cable but I do I have an ICOM

Angela Jones , hello, does it make any grinding noises when it won’t close down the last couple of inches or it just stops? Does it do a fault (blinks the red led on the button) or does it just stop and won’t go further without a fault when still holding the button? The reason I’m asking is that the last few inches of the closure is done by the same motor that does the latching (the motor that you wind with the Allen key manually to complete the closure) so it could be the gears going bad in the motor or the motor itself is going bad. It also could be that the segment sensor on the back wings is reading the wrong segment so it stops the movement of doing the final close and latching because it needs to know the wings are fully down before it will do the last part if the closure. Just let me know if you are getting a grinding sound above the windshield where the latching mechanism is and maybe we can narrow it down. Thanks, Steve

@@StevesDIYs Thanks for your reply Steve !! There is no grinding noise even when i continue to hold the button, sometimes I can catch the roof just right and help pull it down and the latches catch and continue to pull it in, but lately I have to pull it down the last few inches and then use the allen key after I do that I get the red blinking light and roof is not closed message - which doesn't allow me to reopen the roof and sometimes even doesn't allow me to open the trunk. I have since tapped on the top behind drivers seat, until the light went away and then usually the first open and close after that work perfectly. Hope that info helps - Thanks again

Angela Jones , it’s good that the motor is not grinding and did work from time to time and also good to know that by thumping on the top on the drivers side would make it clear the fault. Since you could thump it and it would clear the fault and allow it to work again, it sounds like the segment sensor that reads the wing position is going bad or is reading the wrong position. If it doesn’t think the wings are in the final down position it will not allow the motor (the one you’ve had to crank manually with the Allen key) to energize and close it the rest of the way. Here’s a link to another video on my channel that looks at the segment sensor: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Zsd3oKar2rizpnU.html The segment sensors and Hall effect sensors can be checked using INPA and the K+Dcan OBDii cable (like what I show on the PC in the videos) to see which is acting up, but if I didn’t have the software, I would first suspect the segment sensor based on what it’s doing...these sensors are known to go bad. Hope this helps...all the best ! Steve

@@StevesDIYs would just replacing the sensor with a new one resolve the problem or is placement always going to be an issue, whether new or "modified"? Money/time wise??

Angela Jones , I modified the position on mine (the video) and it didn’t fault for this for about 18 months, but then faulted again due to the sensor finally going bad. I changed it out since it had a bad segment and it had not faulted for this since I changed it out last year. For the replacement I used an OE one vs an aftermarket since the car seems so finicky about this sensor. RealOEM.com has all of the schematics for our cars...it will give the BMW OE part number then it can be googled to find one. If it is bad, there’s not much to do but change it out as there doesn’t seem to be any other options for them. It’s not very expensive and pretty easy to get to so it’s not too bad to change out.

delo85 , also, when you press the button to retract it, does it do the “gong” or blink red like it has a fault?

Yep, sorry about that…I had left the driver door open at the beginning of the video and didn’t realize the mic on the camera would have picked it up so loudly.