At 90k mikes on either the S85 or the S63 engine, 1) find an old rock quarry that has filled up with water 2) at night, push the car in 3) call the police and report it stolen, 4) call the insurance company and file a claim.

This is why the E36, E46 and E39 M3 M5 values are rocketing - anything after this is just an unfixable ticking bomb.

Nathan, love your brutal honesty on this. Keep up the good work 👍

thank you Nathan for the information! keep up the great work

Nathan you “do know a few things about these engines”. Love the info and debate. Big help.

Great video with explanations! Good knowledge and expertise in BMW's.

It’s time to get together as a community and design modules to combine different parts of the engine together with as least hoses as possible. Adapters for the hose ports to normal hoses.

Having owned a few M54 which is an all time great engine I see so many people rolling around in X5M/X6M and they are just timebombs and the real deal breaker is that when you’ve put the money in to the M5 you’ve got a genuine appreciating asset and an awesome legendary car. Huge petrol SUV’s have had their day and electrification and fuel prices will kill them off over the next few years, no one is going to want one as a toy or get nostalgic to own one but they will for the proper M cars so even if you’ve got to throw substantial money at an e60 M5 you’ll always get your money back on it.

Add one more S63 2012 X5M engine failures to the list. Engine seized at 108k miles. All oil changes and maintenance done regularly. Dealer notified BMW US rep and they wash their hands of it and offered no help. Last BMW I ever buy.

Very credible analysis - thanks !

Great video. I've got a 2013 x5m and she's definitely a huge pain to work on 😅

Thank you so much, I was looking at a 2016 750 I because of your video I popped the hood and saw that the heat alone had deteriorated the engine cover and it smelled like antifreeze in the interior and this was at a BMW dealership where they were asking 19k with 97k on the odometer.

Much respect for being interested in hassling with this material. I mostly work with Audis and I thought it's bad, but to fully rebuild engine it costs 10k which is a lot for 10-20k cars. I thought Q7 is a money pit. Cant even finish watching your video, because I get your point. What a mess. Makes me sick. I imagine rebuilding someone's engine for 7k which is a lot for most people, and then hoses and cables and other stuff start to deteriorate when they wanna go on vacation with their 7k fully rebuilt motor. It's tough business, and we get to blame in the end.

Great comparison. I have been considering moving on from my N54 and this gave me a lot to think about.

Never thought an s85 would look low maint....glad I have a warenty on my used x5 50i. It is a tu but still a lot to brake

Great vide 👍🏻 correction on fuel injector Genuine BMW for one single injector is $438

I do agree with this. However……. the N63 is a completely different argument. I will say that a N63 is cheaper overall no matter the scenario compared to the S85. Not starting any argument, I just have the proof to back it up. The N63 has tons of little gems of deals hidden all over because of its past. The key is to find them and take advantage of them and do your research. Brand NEW Garrett OEM matching turbos and lines/gaskets is $1800 out the door. No rebuilding no cores. A completely new long block with all components from Germany is currently $4025. It was $3025. Not a reman. Fuel injectors from FCP EURO lifetime warranty are $150 each Remanufactured. If they are bad keep swapping them out for life. No need for rod bearing becuase at 150,000 you can buy a new one for a swap. Bosch OEM HPFPs are $200. Just my 2 cents because I really am happy with my N63 and believe me I could not afford an expensive S63 at all. Nathan is right compared to the S85 for sure. I just would love to see some N63 content some day

I leased a 2018 M550i for 3-years. Great car that you DO NOT want to own out of warranty. Halfway into my lease it was in the shop for a month with a strange intake leak. BMW's twin turbo V8 is still as sketchy as can be.

You’re the best Nathan

Great video! I just changed all injectors on my f10 m5 2 months ago they did cost 550€.

I appreciate the content. I think E60 m5 has the best powertrain in any non-supercars. I really love the responsiveness and the sound, vibration, even the shock when changing gear flatout. It is really hard to find a car that u feel your foot is linked to the throttle these days, almost all cars have a built in "throttle lag(ger)"in the ecu.

Good video Nate

Great video. I appreciate the thoughts on this engine and the engineering. It is frustrating to know things are built as disposable for these prices. Makes me appreciate Porsche and Japanese Engineering a whole lot more. Keep up the good work.

Awesome review!Now I feel sorry that few years ago didn't buy a 2008 BMW E60 M5 manual with 56000 miles on it😁

Just sold my 1-series with N47 engine at 100k miles because of the same type of thing. Nowhere near as big bucks to sort out as these S85/S63 engines but bad enough for me. Sticking to my M52TU engined car of the 90's which still needs preventative maintenance but I've already done most of it so it should see me right as I treat it like an old lady now, which she is. An eye-opener of a video Nathan to those who are naive. There's a reason why these high priced BMWs depreciate quickly and a specialist once said to me that if you buy a car that was big bucks new, then it's gonna cost big bucks to keep on the road. I now ride my bicycle to work!

Well done 👏

I have a question? I you had a 2012 BMW 750Xi N63 engine. If you had the choice of a full engine swap. What engine would you swap it out for?

Great review, I bought my X6 twin turbo new, NZ$200,000 2010 sold at 87,000km when I learnt about the engine I had many sleepless nights what a nightmare, I traded it for a Ute, got $19,000 as a trade in no regrets, when I learnt that the engine runs too hot 🥵 and cooks the electrical wires in the V I took the engine cover off to allow better air flow. Absolute shame that these engines are produced and are so complicated, this shouldn’t be allowed or they should guarantee the engine for 500 thousand miles. I love your channel thanks for taking the time to inform the public.

Would love to know which M5 engine of all is your favorite, from E28 to F90

can you do rod bearings in a S63 with just taking the front subframe off, and going through the oil pan?

At what mileage should you do the rod bearings in the s63?

ALMOST got a 3 year old with the s63. The Dealer had and X5 with it and the exact same one with an N55, priced within a thousand of each other. Gas had jumped up and I was worried about mileage so I got the N55. Still expensive to service but not nearly as much. Lucked out.

What an epic and honest roast! If this isn't icing on the cake how big of a disaster an S63 car is to own idk what is.

Hi, so I have a 2021 M8 competition which got picked up a few days ago due to a really bad knocking noise (24k miles) is this the S63 engine or not ? What do you think the problem will be, supposedly something has snapped inside and now I'm waiting for a new engine getting shipped from Germany 🤦🏼.

try cleaning your coil packs with CRC electrical cleaner, I troubleshooted for years on air leak on my M54, turned out cleaning the plug, connector, pull apart and clean and clean spring and never runs better on original Bremi coils with 261,000 miles.

After watching your videos I can sympathized everything you say. My 2013 BMW X6 50.i was a nightmare. N63 was nothing but an endless money pit then you have to worry when driving something else is about to fail. I went back to my pragmatic thinking. My wife and I bought a new Honda and Toyota with 10yr/120,000 miles warranty. Life is really great when I don't have to think about mechanics, car repairs, reliability and going to repair shops to get estimate. BMW and Mercedes are great cars. The problem is when you leave manufacture warranty they will start kicking you in the nuts and bank account.

Thank you

Do you have a video like this on the 2009-2013 I think 3.5 in x6?

I appreciate the straight talk! I've also gained new respect for the S85 motor from watching your series here. I never was a fan of the E60 styling, but man, compared to modern BMWs they're actually alright. Looking forward to keeping up with the progress on your S85 build!

Thanks

You should do a video of you going to a dealer and showing what crazy rates they charge and what they try to screw you on. Also video of you shopping their used lot would be hilarious.

Do you know the exact year they improved the s63tu rod bearing’s?

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ 5 star content

Hi anyone get a part number for ARP rod bearings and bolts? For S63 (BMW X5M 2012) cheers

What about the S63 used for the F90 M5 Competition? Is it good?

Very informative. I will definitely stick with n62 engine and not worry about these issues.

New subscriber here. Do you sell any of these you work on?

There is no replacement for displacement

might be biased as an s85 owner but love this comparison this is exactly what i think abt the s63 lmfao

s63 is for rich ppl who buy em new then get rid of them at 100k miles, alot of the items you stated didnt have to be replaced all at once thats only if ur gonna keep the car forever most ppl dont, each bosch injector is 100 bux turbos

X5m 2011

The lurking problem with S85 and S65 are the main bearings. Seeing more and more of those on the forums over time. Still, wouldn’t touch S63 with a 10 ft pole.

When I see this video it makes me damn proud I have a m54 engine 😂😂

Not sure I understand the premise of the discussion - yes, twin turbo engine is more complicated, hence replacing parts will cost more than on NA engine, is anyone surprised? Sure turbo's will not fail on S85 as there are none and the injectors are just a bit cheaper compared to S63TU piezo injectors. The only advantage I see in the S85 is its sound due to being NA V10 - that's about it. The S63TU is better in all other aspects. If they go boom, neither is cheap, so whoever is buying must have few spare thousands in the pocket. What I'm surprised by is that newest M5 is still using the S63TU - basically the same motor as 11years old F10 M5, only with couple miscellaneous parts upgraded. If you look into it that way, I think the F10 M5 are pretty much a steal compared to F90

So in other words ppi really only gonna so much if any issues

I dropped out of the industry because of stupid SUV's like this. CRUSH THEM.

I sold my 08 manual M5 at 80k miles bcuz I was worried about rod bearings and bought a 2016 X5M 4 just to find out they suffer from the same issue 🤦🏻‍♂️ I think it’s time for a g80

does not BMW have a class action lawsuit on these motors S63,N63. They told me $3700 and $2400 core. I believe the lawsuit is only in the US.

This is was these German cars are worthless after 100k if there survive that .... great channel love the content

Not sure if you mentioned ten fuel injectors for the S85.

I have 214300KM on my 2006 M5 runs fine you must never run cold will kill the motor.

Jeeez lol you need an engine shop for your shop

My guy just went thru and named every possible issue with an s63 engine… it’s either they are super reliable or they weren’t taken care of and they are ticking time bombs. If you take care of the basics; all consumables, vanos, rod bearings and oil changes every 5k miles, then you should be all set. This engine is a proven performer and a lot of true BMW enthusiasts run these with major power. Yes, it’s an expensive vehicle to maintain but you’re talking about a v8 twin turbo from a luxury SUV, it’s no doubt it’s going to cost a pretty penny 😅 if you’re complaining about this vehicles expenses, you’re into the wrong car!

I brought this car in july for 30k. Put about 20 thousand miles on it and the shit threw a rod. Now it need a engine. Listen to this man he know exactly what he talking about

Nathan, do you have any example of reliable 555 hp stock turbocharged engine which is less complex than s63 and much reliable than it?

LS swap time !

When I first saw an X-5m I really liked it.. And still-do. The look is pretty cool in my-own opinion, but once I researched what Nathan went over.. NO Question Id never accept one even for free.. I really enjoy tinkering with my BMW. The X.. is for the "daddys got money" crowd. Nope.

You're not wrong but it's missing the whole ingenuity of these engines. The hose are unnecessary, the cpu placement is stupid on all the other chassis, and the N63 level power is not worth the level of maintenance. But by the time you tune or fix any of the little nagging problems (cat locations, heat management, brittle plastics, hoses everywhere) . It's hard to beat the performance

Unfortunately BMW has become like Range Rover. They make really nice pretty vehicles but definitely NOT something I would own outside of the factory warranty. Despite being able to take the S63 and do some fueling mods, turbo upgrades, down pipes, intake, and tune and make some extremely impressive power figures you wouldn't really want to have one where you are 100% responsible for the repairs. But a 2009-2010 5 series wagon to swap in a manual transmission, S85 with it's issues addressed and upgraded, suspension, brakes, and wheels would be awesome and much much better if it is possible upgrade the severely outdated tech. The Techno Violet Metallic E36 M3 convertible I had will be the last BMW I own for a very long time unless they address all the issues.

So is this generation mx5/6 a hard stay the fuck away?

🤘🏾🤘🏾🤘🏾🤘🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾

I've always told people that the S85 is more reliable and cheaper to keep going but they all say the TT V8 is better and more reliable which isn't the case. N63/S63 has turbo issues, fuel injectors, rod bearings and timing chain issues

No one would just replace the turbos and injectors on the S63 engine if there is no problem with them. Your build cost analysis is way too high.

I know why they are having problems. We used to get pre filled bearings from manufacturing and they were actually not filled all the way that they should have. The manufacturer cheated our company by saving on oil costs and the thought that we would buy more in the future from them.

Im in s63 life, including my f10 m5, you make alot of valid points but your numbers are exaggerated, very exaggerated.

This is what nightmares are made of..

S63 motor block is not available from bmw anymore Whole engine is 80k au

Mine is still running 199k on it

It is funny. I own a e60 m5. And everybody 1st words are about the problems. And with an f10 m5 everybody just accepts it.😂😂

Long story short never buy an s63.

they are worth over 30k in canada just saying

The s63 cost way more to repair hands down

Just LSx it already and be done with it.., you know you want tooooo Edit: Cant beat the sound of a DOHC. Are these really bad designs or do they simply suffer from Heavy Foot Syndrome and no proper maintenance?

Wise men will listen and harken to the words of the wise. Only a fool would hear and see trouble and head straight to it anyway. 😳 Hopefully A BMW engineer will somehow run across this video. This man is telling you all the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth! Shame on those old BMW and Mercedes engineers for building crap like that! And not there are countless of these beautiful BMW and Mercedes cars out there with their unfixable (waay too costly and not worth repairing) time bomb V8 and V10 engines! 😳 I heard the last few yrs they have improved them. That remains to be verified. I really want to purchase an X5 XDrive 40i for my wife (B58 straight six), and that engine seems to be the best I6 still available out there! I am still watching very closely though..

I think you're too subjective in your opinions. The modern engines are more complex then the old ones you fan of and require more thorough maintenance and if it done properly it last long. Replacing cooling hoses every 10 years is not that bad.

There is a reason why they are 20 k ........Just look at like this.... I'm getting a 40k car for half price and you'll be golden

FIRST!!

I love my 2008 E60 M5 6MT w 60k miles on her.

B M W = Buy More Warranty

I email you..I would like to get my car fix buy you

Another reason I will NEVER own another BMW.

20 years of shitty V8s should tell you to stay the hell away from any V8 engined BMW 😂

No thanks... I'll keep my 2000 E39 528i.

Get a B58 problems solved😅

They better go to all electric so they don't keep making shit like this.

I'll stick with my slow poor mans m54. :)

No Fkn way would I buy that. Not even for $1. Just makes your life complicated.

Fear mongering master ! Hoses ? LOL

This channel is a joke. No car is maintenance free, Half the people commenting can't afford the maintenance on a Honda Accord yet alone a S63 engine in a BMW M car.

S63 is an unreliable nightmare. Great for a 30k mile corporate lease. Major piece of 💩 shit once you approach 100k. There’s no debate.