I really liked the second half of it and it has some great skill trees and the story adds a lot to Jack's character. I honestly just didn't have any space left on my computer for recordings lol imma leave this pinned cuz I see this question a lot.

@@bigfreakinfrogI appreciate you not jumping on the hate bandwagon for the pre-sequel. It wasn’t perfect but some people bash on it WAY to hard and it makes me sad. In my opinion, it had the best action skills. (Jack Doppelgänger) and made some improvements from the previous games.

@@bigfreakinfrog I totally forgot about most of this after so many years. Thanks for reminding me of it! It was never really my thing, but there's some nostalgia there all the same.

Downright LOVED 1 and 2 and the pre sequel was pretty meh by comparison but I made an Athena build with the super upgraded shield and sword skill trees. Some of the most fun I've had playing a borderlands game.

@@sirisaac6225 game is better with the UCP patch, the base game just sucks doo doo

Bl3 was peak: use one legendary that just so happens to be the best out of the 17 other copies you have of the exact same legendary.

@@ryoryo2884 Yeah, agreed. I pretty much did a "purple weapons only" challenge in BL3 because the ideal Dahl AR or Torgue shotgun was harder to find than specific legendaries.

Nah, give more respect on the pre sequels story That shit was fire

The story in TPS is my favorite out of all the Borderlands games. A big reason why it was so entertaining is due to the fact the Vault Hunters are acknowledged by other characters and have their own unique dialogue depending on who you're playing as.

OG Borderlands was peak story as well, but people don't know how to read, so very few actually know the story.

Good. Presequel was fucking abysmal.

@@xnyxiee1784 Hey, it's got that in common with three! :D

@xnyxiee1784 the pre sequel has the best story

@@Autistic-Raccoon not even remotely lmfao

I really like the Pre-Sequel, probably becuase ive realised we may never get this kind of love and passion about another Borderland's entry, period. A Borderlands game, made by fans, for the fans. Bl3's DLCs have been damage control and New Tales just undid all those years of hard work to regain the customer's trust. I will take my bug-filled game over 200 dollars worth of polished Corprorate sludge. And I already know Borderlands 4 is going to have a Battle pass (Limited Weapons, Items and Class mods) and a Season Pass, so im done with any future installments, another 120 dollars + 11 dollars a month for 14 months. Fuck you Gearbox. I will just watch people play it while I hop around Elpis.

The way they treated her and the addition of Ava ruined alot of my enjoyment for BL3

​@@trontosaurusrex9532bl3 was ass💀💀

They fucking fridged the fan-favorite femme fatale (Yes, I did it for the alliteration)

If they had to kill any one Salvador mightve actually gotten some applause given the right build up

How they treated half of the characters in BL3 is criminal. Don't let me get started on the TellTale characters... let alone the Pre-Sequel ones.

It was also during the peak psychosis of the wamen empowerment movement too. They sacrificed depth to turn every male into a joke and every female into a power fantasy. And they did that shit so poorly that even if you agreed with that agenda you could still tell how god awful and biased their finished product was.

"how do you do, fellow non-hetero females?"

@@quintrapnell3605I don’t think there’s anything of that sort in BL3… other than the gay wedding, but the fact that Hammerlock is gay was established since BL2… The absolutely cringe writing feels like a boomer trying to make Zoomers laugh.

You’re just not paying attention most of the female cast has a relationship or crush with another woman

​@@ElZamo92not boomers. Aging millennials who think they're still hip and funny, but never really were to begin with.

Agreed with the ava thing, i swear to god gearbox just doesnt want anyone to be a couple from our vault hunters, roland died before him and lilith could get back together, and now maya got killed cuz of idiotic fridging and the worst character ever written in the form of Ava, and krieg is just straight up gone

They killed off Maya to replicate the shock value from Roland. But everything about how Maya dies was so stupid. It didn't have the same effect as Roland's death

I hate how Lilith said sanctuary is yours no way in hell it is hers I’d rather it be claptrap’s or marcuses

Yep. I vividly remember my two thoughts at that time were "fuck ava" and "we literally just walked into this room, how are we just standing there watching this happen..." . I agree about bloodwing. It's crazy how much the writing changed.

Exactly.

He addresses the death in the DLC, still underwhelming though

The worst part about the Kreig DLC was that it felt like an inferior version of Claptastic Voyage from the Pre-sequel. If the two were reversed in when we got to experience them, or if the Krieg DLC got as much attention as CV it would have been so much better.

​@Akuma Imayaruk I mean it was created at home basically, but yeah, still underwhelming af

> That and if you looked at the cut stuff from the game..ouch.

Bl1 2 and tps are the only true ones

And it doesn’t even sound good, so I can’t imagine experiencing it. Glad I stopped at 2

​@@zacky7572At launch you couldn't skip cutscenes so i had to mute my tv every time the zoomer twins showed up. Be glad.

Yea the third game was so boring I turned it off mid mission and never played it again.

It's worth noting that he is fighting an equally militarized megacorp, so it's not unheard of that a significantly less prolific company like Atlas would have trouble with Maliwan

In New tales they made him into angry dumb generic white rich man and they focus on the new WaCkY cHaRaCtErS!!! Wow aren't they so zany?!

In the presequel (sorry I meant Tales from the Borderlands)Jack states that he bought Atlas solely for the purpose of gutting it and keeping it as a trophy. Technically speaking Rhys ownership of Atlas is only on A "I happen to have the piece of paper" bearer bonds kinda acquisition. Considering then he would have had to rebuild the company from near scratch id say it makes sense

You know... woke. A straight white male character HAS to be pathetic and need a STRONG WOMAN to save him. 🙄

@@VladGasula The problem isn't that atlas was having trouble fighting maliwan but the way the character was portrayed and how it clashed with previous portrayals.

It was the same in every other borderlands tho. I don't think that's a valid criticism of 3 if the previous games did the same.

@@falloutglasster7807 it didn’t feel that way in BL2 even though it didn’t have very many cutscenes, prime example is when Roland Died. Jack was talking to you at that moment which immersed me into story. Only moment I can think of that was somewhat similar to this in bl3 was when Troy phase locks you which I guess counts as a cutscene since it’s a scripted event.

We’re not even a side dish for the main meal… we’re a fucking appetizer that serves no purpose but to do Liliths bidding cuz she lost her powers and apparently doesn’t remember how a gun works, like come on

@@falloutglasster7807 bl2 only had a handful of cutscenes but every character at least acknowledges you by calling you the vault hunter in bl3 they don’t mention you hardly ever and also pulling a Matt hardy and just deleting you from existence for a brief sec

I just cant get over what they did to Tiny Tina man, just to release a game where she's a kid again. Gross gross gross

There's a lot of BL3 that feels like awkward bad fanfiction. Generally any time there's a dip in writing quality the product ends up feeling like bad fanfiction.

In game: Wombo combo slam dunking at 100 mph with drones and 5 buffs while switching guns on the fly. In cutscenes: Stands constantly and moves like they're covered in drying paint. Same problem in Far Cry 5. Every cutscene must take away your controls otherwise you'd wipe everyone's asses with lead before they can mutter a syllable.

Lots of them are based on the player not being there, being completely powerless or just simply not doing anything.

@@TecTitan so much media now feels like bad fanfiction though, not just borderlands. It's basically the norm. Like all these entertainment companies hired fans of the series, but they hired the fans that were more concerned with their tumblr fanfic self inserts than they were with the actual direction of the media they were using as inspiration.

@@mikkelnpetersen maya dying right after you come out the vault and walk up to her really exemplified this. You waltz out the vault, probably with some new loot ready to shoot and walk up to maya, get forced into a cutscene where suddenly you don't exist anymore, and then she's dead in front of you.

After playing TPS, I ain't saying he's right, but... I understand. Mans saw a lawless wasteland and sought to cleanse it. Can't blame him there

​@@Yotarnn absolutely

I always kill jack at this line specifically for dramatic effect

@@Yotarnn I can. He had no right, but he did have an unearned savior complex that people seem to love venerating because they see a place that isn't an American suburb. That's exactly what he would have turned pandora into. Colonists always feel like they have the right to step in and change what they don't understand. This kind of thing always reeked of "We have to kill the savages!" mentality that fueled Manifest Destiny's atrocities. It was shitty in 2, it was shittier in TPS.

@@gene8447 nah bruh your hatred for whitey is showing 🤣

I mean 1's lore was equally confusing. BL3 honestly suffers from the lack of lore surronding the Sirens from 1. Reason 2 is so good is because the writers made a narrative that distracted from the Siren issue. 3's villians are so fucking bad they allow the viewer to notice cracks in the whole franchise. Never have I seen a game pull this off lmao.

@@godfrey4461 1 didn't put too much into it's story and didn't expect you to really pay attention to it. Do jobs, find vault, get paid. Simple, concise and fits what the game is going for. Borderlands 3 says as much but in far FAR too many words. And the words it does use usually end up in an unfunny joke. It's trying to throw so much at you hoping it sticks. But it straight doesn't and we're left with less then we had (Maya and Lillith all in exchange for a horrible Goblin Child). And it expects you to watch it, or listen to someone prattle on thinking it's so much better then it is.

BL1's story is a lot clearer if you read all of the quest descriptions & conclusions as well as listen to all the echo recordings. Kinda lazy on the Dev's part, maybe, but their budget wasn't great at the time.

@@gaelofariandel6747 what? I mean the stories easy to understand you’re there to find a vault and legendary loot you find the vault figure out it’s a monster that’s gonna destroy the world and you kill it

@@NEEDbacon YES, nailed it. They're waaaaay too verbose. I know this is taken from 4chan but it's too true: (I actually had to type it all out myself though, since I could only find a screenshot of the OP. Saved it in notepad so I can use it later, this took way too long to not do that) >Normal line: "If you can get some fuel canisters, I can re-activate the main generator and get our shields back up . I marked the objective on your map" >Gearbox line: "Heeeeyyy buddy, great job killing those mutants and all. You're really good at that. Killing things; that is. One problemo though, a bunch of monsters on this planet are gonna tear our eyeballs out if we don't get the shields back up, and this is just my opinion, but that's gonna suck. Not having eyes sounds terrible! I mean, how am I supposed to read my collection of 'Bodacious Space Babes' without any flippin' eyeballs? So here's my brilliant plan I got written on this here napkin. There's this generator thing, and it needs GAS! Who knew? So maaaaaaybe, you could go fetch some canisters. And then we can get the generator running. And then the shield will go back up, and we won't be horribly, viciously murdered! Doesn't that sound great? I know, right? So, since I did most of the work coming up with the plan, I was thinking you can do the last step and get the canisters. If you see any monsters, shoot them in the face or something. Oh and one more thing, try not to get killed out there, that will put a wrench in this plan - metaphorically that is. I hate people who misuse the word 'literally'. It drives me FIGURATIVELY insane! *Anyway, I'll just be here, cowering in my bunker while you go do that. GO TEAM BADASS!" It honestly scares me how accurate that is. If the BL3 incarnation of Tannis said all that, word for word, I honestly wouldn't even be slightly surprised. Handsome Jack made witty quips, Tyreen just won't stfu... and somehow all of this is less abrasive than FRAN. Jesus christ, why did the Skywell laser not turn her into fried pork?

The story is such a bunch of nonsense they had to make another game to explain it, the guns are the literally the worst they've ever been in the entire series (quantity doesn't necessarily translate into quality lol) and the only BL title I never managed to replay because calling it a piece of shit would honestly be an insult to shit. I'm going with -10/10 mastercrap, 100% the worst game I ever played in almost 30 years of gaming.

It makes me super curious if they were taken in a completely different direction! Kinda like how Zarpedon left the main characters in the dark in Pre-Sequel. I thought that was pretty neat but definitely left her feeling unmemorable.

It is hard to top handsome jack to be fair

@@charlesluikart1799 they shouldn't have tried to top him and made a brand new unique villain instead.

I think another huge issue with them is that their goals just arent well established until late into the story. When you fight jack the objective is clear - open the vault before he does. In bl3 the story is convoluted and unfocused. a lot of the time it feels random and meandering. The only part I remember being interesting is when Roy gets more powerful and starts standing up to his sister... but that plotline gets dropped pretty quick. In general there isnt much motivation behind their actions besides "were a cult and were evil". There are a lot of things that bother me in bl3s writing but I gotta be at least a little bit fair to it. Its not like borderlands 2 was shakespeare either - a lot of its writing is also pretty cringy and most of Jacks genius is less in his script but the delivery of his amazing voice actor.

@@allanredhill8682 totally agree, without their goals being clear in the early game they’re just like evil irl twitch streamers lol. Didn’t make any sense. And yeah the BL2 story line would be pretty bland without Jack, the voice acting and dialogue was just perfect.

It was written by someone who had no attachment to her character in BL2, and I'm amazed it didn't get overruled in the writers room. IMO, Maya+Krieg should have been inseparable in BL3, and any death of hers should have involved both of them. I'm not against killing her, but godddd they went about it in such a lame and infuriatingly disinterested way.

It was astonishingly bad, she was killed unceremoniously by badly written villains and the death was assisted by a new “protagonist” who proceeds to immediately point the blame at a character who is adored by the community for pretty much no reason. To make matters worse there is absolutely no retribution for this throughout the entire story, we just kind of ignore that her insolence got Maya killed and there was no significant apology about the blame shifting. AND she’s set up to be a super important character in future installments

For real, That's what stopping me to buy BL3. The story in the 2 previous installments was so interesting that I wanted to see what was next after BL2 and it's DLC. With BL3 came out and was an epig store exclusive for the PC for half a year my little interest in the already terrible story just fell entirely off and I just moved on from there. Sure maybe the Gameplay is the best that the series have ever seen but holy shit BL3 story throws everything out the window and tried to give it a more of a comedic edge then the first 2 games which yes, there humor is also dated but it still have some good jokes that is not incredibly forced in and have to rely on shitty internet humor to entertain the audience which they thought we was all 12 year olds. I still have no desire to play BL3 even if it goes on sale.

Woke writers always do this. They kill legacy characters for cheap emotional hits or to redefine the franchise they way their ideology needs it to be. BL3s writing was cancer

@@TheClintonio "woke writers"? You guys are obsesed with woke this and woke that. Literally no piece of media is just bas now, is bad becuse somehow its woke...

they wasted most of the cast from Tales

A male character in BL3 getting to hog the glory? Lmao no. BL3 has ended my love for anything new in the Gearbox Borderlands World.

To be fair that is his character he can fight but he’s ultimately a coward it’s why him and zero make a good duo, however if a BL4 came out and he’s still not at the top then they really are wasting potential because he’s now out lived 3 mega corps

@@redwiltshire1816 -fought off an army of bandits -brought down a space station -fought a vault monster They’re the ones that spring to mind Yes he had help and yes he was terrified the whole time but he kicked ass and ended tales and a legend And 3 took him back to square one a coward an idiot and a complete joke

@@KARL00300 yes but that’s who Rhys is and I think your forgetting all the people Rhys kills in 3 if he just became a total badass then he would literally just be handsome jack and seeing what happened to the twins do you really want to see a badass version of him? Also you forgot that Rhys survived 2 assaults and loses two vault keys

I would have liked it significantly more if it did that or if Ava had that deleted scene. A betrayal would have been so cool.

it didn't make any sense as to why Troy wouldn't betray tyreen. i mean, the story was already leading up to that point at Eden-6. Tyreen being a "commander" to troy and the Jakobs guy taunting him calling troy a "leech" the writers are just too stuck up on the "yaaas, slay queen" mentality i guess that's why they didn't make troy the final boss which i think he deserved more than tyreen

Genuinely believe if ava was written with similar effort to tina, Maya would still be alive. Her death was completely unexpected and unnecessary. Just because Roland died the way he did in 2, doesn't mean Maya should have similarly.

Way too many people think that for it to be a coincidence. It's what they were setting up but changed their mind for some reason.

​@@elton9721 holy shit someone understands, they had to kill off my boo Maya to even make a dent in the game

oof

Those two things are what literally get me to question if I want to do a play-through. The unskippable zoom calls are fucking painful.

just muted the game after a point, much better with music than the calypsos random noise

This to me is the biggest reason more people still go back to play BL2 and not BL3. The amount of time you spend in BL3 doing literally nothing is ridiculous. In BL2 you’d turn in a mission, accept a new one and there’s be enough dialogue for you to listen to it all while you refill ammo, buy upgrades and run to the fast travel station. You’re always doing something. In BL3 you just stand around while a bunch of poorly written story that you aren’t attached to at all happens around you. My first playthrough felt like a chore, let alone a TVHM playthrough or starting a new character.

@@Shad0w5carab Not to mention when you start getting into the First Vault Hunter parts of the story, you have to fight the exact same eridian (?) enemies for like hours on end. The maps look so fucking cool but it's like... move to next area, kill 300 enemies, move again, 300 enemies... like ugh

And that they look like they are about to walk across Project Runway with their 10 layers of clothing and as many accessories you can come up with. Their character designs are way too over the top and not fitting. Same goes with the playable characters.

I've been talking about this with a friend since this game came out. They over focused on making them annoying, to the point that it almost feels like 2K actually wrote them to take a piss at the fanbase, specially content creators. Not only they kept taking a crap on the sirens who have been constantly fan favorites, the streamer idea is so out of touch that it legit feels like one of the guys at 2K came to the office one day pissed at a streamer who criticized something about BL and decided to write a story based on that spite. Also, the dialogue is overall awful. I can't imagine having to voice Tyreen, looking at those insanely cringy lines and just "smile and wave". Her VA, if anything, did a fantastic job for actually trying with the abysmal quality that was handed to her.

"Also I see we don't talk about the pre-sequel." are you saying here that you dont like it so we ignore it? I love the PS.

@@jameshalle558 "it almost feels like 2K actually wrote them to take a piss at the fanbase, specially content creators. " oh palease - whining content creators came up with that, and their sycophantic fanbases spread it. but even if true - who cares?

Honestly? Presequel was a ton of fun. Space mechanics slotted into BL2 gameplay nicely, and the characters were great. I hated it at the time, because it *wasnt* 3, and I wanted 3 so badly. It felt like a diversion, like they were stalling for time and I was frustrated with that feeling. But playing the Handsome Jack collection in local co-op, it works perfectly if you drop that baggage.

You're souless. Don't even bother playing video games with a story. Go play Candy Crush or something.

@@dangerousdays2052 some people just enjoy gameplay over story, i prefer story sometimes but you dont need to bash people for their preferences

can you at least delete it from the game ive not played bl3 and wouldnt want to put up with that if i got it some time

@@skoovee Wrong. People that don't have an appreciation for story telling in video games are basically just apes pressing buttons. Like I said, souless.

All Borderlands do that

She needs to be playable again if they make a BL4, and also TINA ffs. 😥

@@MrNo1fan playing tina would be so fcking awesome

@@MrNo1fan along with Timothy

​@@MrNo1fantina and gaige are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY in bl4

I thought it was alright Definitely my second favorite DLC of BL3, behind Fustercluck, just cause Hammy and Winny are the best, but Gaige was alright

pretty sure there is a lore reason for this like the sirens are naturally attracted to one another or something but yeah i agree it still seems a bit eh

It would have been cool if we had a Borderlands game that didn't have any playable sirens. The vault hunters could rely on more skill and superior tech.

@@ATHLETIC_FEMBOYAgreed! Plus it could've been more interesting to explore the more grounded vault hunters. (aka non-sirens) Which sure the ones in 3 were good, but it felt that we needed more. A squad based one would be cool, hearing the banter back and forth even if you don't have friends to play with would add more depth.

​@@ATHLETIC_FEMBOYpre sequel

@@ATHLETIC_FEMBOYI’m the other way, I want a story with all sirens or at least one that focuses on their story. I feel like they could be taken in a really interesting direction

One of if not the best villain of all time imo

Handsome Jack was the reason why BL2, BL:Presequel and Tales from the Borderlands had you interested in the story. To this day I don't understand how out of touch the writers have to be to actually try to replace this guy with two cringe, bipolar zoomer kids with Mary Sue powers that somehow got more people behind them than the calculating, psychopathic but charismatic CEO of one of the biggest company ever. Those kids are quite the opposite of what makes a cult leader.

@@Bladerunner5146 best villain and BL does not go together lol

That's a testament to the writing overall, not just the effort the writers, director, and the actor put on Jack's characterization. He is a fantastic villain to go against, yes. His constant presence does add a lot to the game, but other characters stand out just as much as he does. I'm finally playing Dragon Keep and I'm finding the sorcerer to be the most forgettable part of the DLC while Tiny Tina, together with the 1st gen VHs, are the most memorable. Not because they're constantly present story-wise, but because their personalities have a chance to shine through and you really feel the bond they all share. BL2 would probably not have had the same impact it had were it not for Handsome Jack, but there's a lot more to that game than him alone. The intricate level design, the interconnected world, the atmosphere (yes, BL2 has an atmosphere despite it not being the same as BL1, and you can really tell by how different BL3 feels right out of the gate), the playable characters, the loot, the DLC... If none of that was on par with the writing and Jack's characterization, BL2 wouldn't have been as influential.

@@sosa8549 opinion discarded lil bro

And even ignoring the stupid additions that bog down the story, you still don't have a good story that the game is telling. Sure, it COULD have been good. But that would require competent writers who put in the work to make characters earn things. Like having Ava grow as a person before getting Maya's powers. Or utilizing previous characters who have absolutely no reason NOT to be in the game(Kreig). Or maybe, just maybe, making the villains actually feel threatening instead of just uber lucky that they're dealing with winter temperature IQ opponents.

maybe but I always felt that BL2 had a "too good" story almost for the type of game it is... BL3 has best gameplay though

You act like bl2 isn't a carbon copy of that

The only part I actually enjoyed was the eden 6 story mission and the bounty of blood campaign. Rest of the story was hard to get through or forgettable. But I even forgot the parts I liked, so there's that. The games writing is just mid at best.

@@yes11889 There were no jokes made about Roland's death. At all.

Literally "what the fuck?"ed out loud and smashed escape. Stupidest ending I've ever played to.

Me and my roommate literally busted out laughing 😅 such a bad choice in song.

Huh... As in the human???

@@TheReZisTLust yes, the credits rolled with a song written and performed by Alicia Keys, a human.

@@Deeplycloseted435 debatable

thats an old hebrew proverb

wisdom is so everywhere sometimes @@bekl0r

Dude that's really sweet and I plan on doing something similar with my past grandma but with wrestling

I'm sorry for your loss.

No one gives a fuck

I definitely understand wanting to show a new gen of characters but none of them added much at all!

I'm zoomer. I fucking hate it. Please don't put me in the same category with """"people""" who likes this piece of glorified dog poo.

Actually the writters where millenials writting what they think zoomers would like, that's why the dialogue is so weird and cringy

​@@bbrr12 it's not super off from what an actual angsty 13 year old would say in 2017-19 tbh

@@jonathonchastain491 I mean, I get your point, but also is an ingame universe so it doesn't have to be cringy without being self-aware, also almost all the characters are now a millenial version of themselves or have weird traits that don't have anysense

see ya later fuckers.

Yeah, Bl1 the GOAT

it must have been a game that you had to be there for i tried it after i played bl2, and couldn't stand how empty it felt, bounced off it super hard when sprinting for like 10min just to get to the next quest

I really like how BL1 still had weird and wacky humour that we see in 2, but balanced out with more realistic characters and writing from time to time. One character that I never see mentioned that is super underrated is Helena Pierce, the mayor of New Haven. I also very much appreciate at the very beginning of BL2, you can find echo logs around the first town revealing she was killed in cold blood by Handsome Jack. While I was kinda bummed they killed her off, it instantly made Handsome Jack a formidable villain to me.

Thank got im not alone, always God sick of seeing people say bl2 was goat especially because of it humor. All I could say was, given five years all these jokes will have aged and be annoying. BL3 went even further down the millennial comedy hole and suffered for it. BL1 is infact, goated.

@@thunderborn3231 A matter of perspective and preference to some degree I guess, but also a bit up to how you play. If you know when/where to fast travel, and when to use a car, there's really not that much boring running. If you also pick up a bunch of side quests to do while in the area, those help fill the empty space as well. I do agree when it comes to the Knoxx DLC though, for some reason, the only spawn point when reloading is in the middle of a very long, linear world, and you basically have to drive for several minutes to get anywhere (this DLC is the exception, not the rule though).

Oh yeah I loved her. Wanted her to be a rude af ally.

not to mention SHE LITERALLY GOT SAVED FROM ELPIS TO TAKE BACK TO SANCTUARY????????????? she was gonna be good 😭😭

Well, yeah, that's generally the biggest problem people have with woke writers. Because, and here is a secret: writers have _always_ pushed their views. It's just that bad writing used to be met with _failure_ of the product. But now with companies like Blackrock and Vangaurd literally handing out free money so long as you're willing to engage in their societal conditioning, writers don't _have_ to be any good at their job. They'll be hired right out of the communist factory to write what their professors told them the world was, and everything is secondary to The Message. And when you look at how they behave on social media, you realize they literally hate the properties they are supposed to be working on, hate that those properties ever found success, and they revel in ruining those properties to an almost sexual degree. If woke writers were able to write actual genuinely quality stories, far fewer people would have a problem with wokeness in general. But it's not _just_ that these people are political psychotics, they're _terrible at their jobs,_ and unjustly smug about it to boot.

Not to mention flat out disrespectful with how quick they were to turn a serious moment that was supposed to be eulogy, only to turn it into a "haha" moment immediately after. Smh.

@@ChocolateLoveKitten honestly if I didn’t know any better I would have thought they picked up writers from marvel. You need only to see Thor love and thunder, as well as the new ant man to see it. Especially love and thunder where there is joke after joke after joke and even the serious moments aren’t allowed to be serious for more than a minute even though one of the main characters is dying of cancer. You’d think they dragged some of those people over to write BL3 before they came out with that movie.

@@absolutelydegenerate1900 Oh lord. I’ve heard things about Thor: Love and Thunder, and even watched videos that were using clips of the movie. Whilst critiquing the use of over abundance of jokes. Like- I’m someone who loves comedy to an extent (I also like to tell jokes and puns), but even I know full well that not every moment should be something funny. There needs to be a balance if you’re going to have some funny moments as well as grim ones. It’s tricky to find that balance, but it can be done. Sad, because I remember how they handled Roland’s death back in BL2 and how you saw the NPC’s reaction when telling them of his passing. They handled Roland’s death with care and respect- Even giving him his statue as a final send off in Tiny Tina’s DLC. The end of that DLC to this day makes me feel emotional. But with Maya? It’s like they said “screw her. She doesn’t get a memorial” and continued to take a piss on her in-game grave.

and it’s not even that they killed her, it’s that they killed her in no honorable way. there was NO REAPSN for her to die.

@@alyssarahn2650 Yeah, like Lillith gets her powers stolen, but she's mostly fine after. Maya just MELTS like WHAT?

BL3: "Now this looks like a job for me."

I mean, there were plenty of opportunities to get quests on Pandora from either BL2 Vault Hunters while they were dealing with matters off world (IE Axton, Salvador, Gage & even Krieg in his cage) or even put them on other planets. Who said Zero was hired by Reese and that's it? Having Zero AND Axton running the Atlas PMC would have been great!

That wasn't any different in BL2 though.

​@@nightmareTomekwasn't that annoying though

@@pants35 But ya putting BL2 on a pedestal by conveniently forgetting that it was just as bad.

@@nightmareTomekno? BL2 was so much better

@@DeathByAnvil Nah. It was only slightly better, all that annoying stuff was just as present, only players were more willing to overlook it, because of Handsome Jack. On the other hand I didn't like the balance around slugs and how long the grind took to reach max level. That's something BL3 does much better.

It took them three WHOLE games to deal with Jack and he was fan-fucking-tastic. Then we got some pre-teens trying to be 'Cool' with the Pandora version of TikTok and it hurt me, it physically hurt me to see them kill professionals like they were skags walking into shotgun range.

I dont think BL2's writing hit the mark aswell as 1 did. I will say the writing had some notable high parts, but there was a lot of millenial sarcasm that just isn't funny for longer than 5 minutes and actively puts a bad taste in my mouth. BL3 shifted even further into that and at eden6 I finally just turned the dialouge off and imagined the story instead a la dark souls.

I think your statement on how humor is used in borderlands 1 compared to the rest of the more recent games is honestly almost identical to fallout 3 compared to the modern fallout games. Was much grittier in the beginning

Was just gonna say this.

@@Phurzt Yeah, a lot of the humor in Borderlands 2 is honestly dated at this point, making references to memes that over 10 years old at this point. I will say it's with Borderlands 2 where the humor started to drop in quality.

@@Memphis_ritz Fallout 3 has an incredible amount of silly, unfunny shit like people playing fake democracy, a town literally ruled by children, people pretending to be super heroes and vampires. New Vegas was far more serious, even if it had its fair share of silly stuff, but a lot of its humor was used to hide a lot of dark undertones like in Old World Blues. And if you want to compare it to the games before, It was also far more sillier than Fallout 2 and Fallout 2 has dumb shit like scorpion playing chess and the implication that ghosts exist. But it was still far more gritty and grounded than Fallout 3.

This effing misuse of the word has got to stop. Shit is embarrassing. YOURE THE WOKE ONE FOR BEING AWARE OF HOW OUT OF TOUCH THESE PEOPLE ARE! ! YOURE THE WOKE ONE AND THATS OK. 🤦‍♂️

No it was insanely woke, all the main characters were strong and independent women, terrible characters, terrible writing and so many cringe movie tropes.

@@maxisgod4357 that's not woke. You're being woke for realizing that it is insanely liberal and progressive. Use the effing word in the correct context. The movie is insanely liberal and progressive. That is their viewpoints. "Woke" are people like us who realize the trash they are trying to put on us instead of being "asleep" to it.

It was way to woke and too many woman leads…cringe dialogue and story that was all over,it was just like all the shitty movies and everything else to come out in the last 10 years

@@maxisgod4357 powerful women in a series where women have extremely powerful magical abilities??? How dare they

That would fit the humor more, a little. “Guys please stop destroying!- No please I can’t take it-“ quickly whispers to you. “Damn I hope they take the bait. I mean yeah, I may be lactose intolerant. But the lunch breaks of my workers have suffered enough, so hurry vault hunter!”

It really was.

this is no place for no better man.

@@charliedulol This ain't no place for no hero, to call home

I love this reading.

Idk I just fuck with Jack’s Origin Story so hard. I was really rooting for him. Also when Moxxi betrayed the fck outta him together with lilith and Roland. Actually it’s kinda their fault Jack was going nuts, and I actually can’t blame him.

​@D H jack was fucked up even before the betrayal. It's too bad they just escaped from him instead of killing him. Oh well, but we got bl2, sooo

The amount of odd changes they made to just put in as many like politic grifts is pretty much to the detriment of the story. It's like directly foreshadowed there, and then just doesn't happen. The credits song really annoyed me and my buddy and was the nail in the coffin for the joke we had about it. Gearbox lead writer is just an autistic man that screams "MORE STRONG WOMAN" and puts in stupid shit like >The villains are a super popular mean girl with super powers, and her useless brother that has to leech off her to survive >Lilith is stunning and brave with deep complex struggle (that comes off as her being useless 90% of the time because she pretty much mopes about being normal all game, than is the cow that jumped over the moon, somehow saving the planet lmao) >Tannis is siren. It doesn't matter. Plus she waits for you to save her than frees herself. >Ellie replaces scooter (I know why, and that's not at all a problem. Moxie taught both, but it's about the vibe that the writers probably greatly enjoyed that being the case) > Maya is a strong single mother that need no man. Strong single mother btfo by leech of a man. > Moxie pretty much being significantly more useful and involved than Marcus (gotta spotlight the ladies) > Hammerlock kinda relegated to "faghag" of the bunch of you'll pardon the expression (which, remind you it's an autistic writer, that probably gets confused and says gay men have girl power) > Random woman commando running atlases shit because Reese is a wimp that's really not fit for running it (also not a problem, just them optimizing girl power farther) > Claptrap rebuilds one of his own to not be alone, and they turned that into a gross meanspirited joke, with of course more girl power for like no reason. Could have landed if he just powered her off and said "being singles not so bad" imo. > Put the little girl in charge? I mean there's like 1000 of these forced things all over the game. This script is a stunning and brave example of how far a mentally challenged writer can make it in the gaming industry. Yasss queen

@@coldeed agree

@@G396 I genuinely think they just had really stupid people in the writing room. They thought Lilith was a inspiring character in 3, but she comes off as a very sad loser that gives up for far too much of the game, and a redemption comes really late with a hero said. That's far too stupid and out of nothing. I don't think they realized that Maya is just an actual inspiring version of Lilith, that's far more active and actually jumped into the fray knowing the risk that Lilith didn't. And because things weren't going well up to that point, they basically got a lot of people more into a character that they heavily plan to kill off like they did rolling for the same kind of payoff, be killing her off at that moment just made the entire story worse, frustrating literally anyone because there was no good way for it to go, because I'm borderlands 3 you're the only game that has a total crew behind you that does what feels like significantly less than in the first or second.

I think what the story and Lilith both really needed is Roland's replacement. Either by establishing a new character or choosing someone from those who we know. What bl2 showed us is that Roland and Lilith were a match made in Haven, they both were complementing each other, Lilith is passionate and impulsive, Roland is calm and focused. And now, in bl3 Lilith lacks someone who could inspire and also would always come up with a plan. Aaaand it sounds strange, but obvious choice here would be Rhys. He is not Roland at all, and there is no need in another Roland, but what Roland essentially was bringing to the table. While Roland was a brave collected soldier who never gives up and in the charge of his own band, Rhys is an intellectual who never gives up and in the charge of a big weapon corporation. Atlas easily could take new Sanctuary under their wing. Rhys's and Lilith's relationship could be not romantic at all (though with Sasha's and Fiona's absence it could be brought even to that extent), but, again, the story itself needed for Lilith to meet someone who could bring in a new hope to her. But that would mean to give a man leading role in the plot, which is the thing that bl3's writers couldn't let themselves to allow somehow.

​@@coldeed so I played a shitload of 1 and 2 and haven't played the pre sequel or 3.... Today is very depressing seeing how they massacred this series

Yeah. it feels like you aren't there, which really sucks you out of the game. I wish we did have one new game that fully included us in the cutscenes, no matter what we are wearing, and have us be CHARACTERS!

Wtf you talking about They constantly talking to me

I hope so dude. The DLCs were great so I hope the writers that were brought around for that or just grew from the base game continue refining themselves.

One can only hope for that, but unfortunately I can't believe it. With BL3, TTW and New Tales, a larger, different group of players has now been developed - the regular players! And they don't care about all the shortcomings. At least not to the extent that we do. My guess is BL4 will have more online focus and really bring back Handsome Jack...

Don't forget the Pre-Sequel

Tales destroyed what pandora supposed to be

Nobody cares about this franchise after BL3. Time to move on.

Yeah i seriously hate how that was done! It was a bad decision that really killed all interactivity with the world and characters.

I just posted a long rant about this and I am relieved to see I'm not the only one who grated with this. Cutscenes are supposed to be the anchor point of the narrative, but for half of them you're unsubtly put in a box because obviously your presence would disrupt them, then half just trundle on like you never existed. Roland's death was too quick to react to, but there's the other key detail: He wasn't talking to Lilith or on the radio with Brick or Mordecai when he died. He was looking at you, the Vault Hunter, the player, in the eye and talking directly to you when he got shot. Handsome Jack was slagging off directly at you, establishing that now with Roland dead, you are now his primary concern. It was a moment of passing the mantle of plot significance from Roland to the player, Brick and Mordecai set up the missions and opportunities from there but they were backing your play.

@@stevekarns8416 Perfectly explained! It was a shock but done right! The BL3 cutscenes we’re just done fully differently like it was a whole different game.

For BL2 yes. Except when Jack appeared. You should've quick scoped him the moment Roland's body dropped.

Hey tell em Atlas has my favorite guns and their designs were peak

@@RyuKaguya will do!

It's a if you know you know thing.

idk i think getting max level and end game is really bad rn, the grind to get good rolls on weapons is horrendous but even then the 4 characters are so OP that there isnt really even any challenge to the game. I can go in on any character and nuke raid bosses or in zane and moze's case they can just afk and nuke bosses. I prefer the challenge that OP levels brought

It’s seriously such a fun game, it’s a shame how obnoxious the story is. I usually skip all the cutscenes and listen to videos/ audiobooks when I play.

Which is why I appreciate the fact that they added the ability to jump right into a DLC. I started a new Zane right into bounty of blood and I've been playing through the DLCs and ignoring the main game entirely, it's been pretty awesome. IMO the writing in the DLCs is FAR tamer and more palatable than the base game which actually equals out to a pretty fun experience.

I just make a boosted character and play through the dlcs with modded difficulty Dlcs are unironically awesome

@@doyoulikeworms3151 Calling the DLCs tamer in writing doesn't seem right. They are more polished for sure with maybe the exception of the Krieg DLC being the only one that felt lacking the same way the main story did to me.

yeah, maya's death would've been more acceptable if they had made it so your character ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING in the cutscene but it still failed, the siren character in 3 sure as hell wouldn't have stood there and watched, at least in BL2 Roland's death is understandable because 1 you didn't expect it and 2 jack teleported right behind him before anyone knew what was happening

Also, they could have gone with a Taoist/duality/dyad motif. They had a hint of that with the twins' general color scheme. With a male yin and female yang, even!

The cutscenes killed me cause it's like the vault hunters never existed in them

if i remember correctly someone from gearbox said that during Maya getting killed the vault hunter was still in the vault hence why they did nothing. But at the same time how the fuck were we supposed to know that we we're still in the vault during all that

@@pjchayer1012 How do they explain the other cutscenes where the vault hunters are just, none existent.

Chris Rager! Otherwise known as Mr Satan from Dragonball z!!

The grandma tongue was the best thing I’ve ever sat through

he needs an award and something for his throat, that must've been brutal in that regard

I loved him in the original Tiny Tina’s assault on dragon keep as well

Torque is not funny. He is an evil loudmouthed, lying, cheating Jackass and a few other choice words I cannot say on KZfaq. A character one must endure a few times to play other fantastic content. When he gets imprisoned in the stocks in the Tiny Tina DLC I just leave him there. Up to me he would be executed at dawn. Kit

God they blew what potential they had hard lmao

Tannis getting angel's powers made ZERO sense to me. Gaige getting them made far more sense. Tannis was and always has been a wack schizophrenic loon. Why on earth would angel choose her over someone who actually loves machines and mechanical objects and would make much better use of her siren powers? Just a bunch of crap retcon writing from morons who didnt love nor respect the original games

Sirens are still rare and still mysterious. No one knows how they came to be. And though not explained well by the devs, it was clear that not only did Sirens already KNOW about their successors, they also know the moment of their death. Maya knew her successor, trained her as best as she could and TOLD AVA TO STAY ON THE SHIP, WHY? Because she knew Ava being present would cause her premature death. And that is exactly what happened. And so Ava, like Maya doesn’t get to learn about her powers or how to evolve them, she learns nothing but what Maya tried to teach her. And remember this is why Maya went back to planet Athena, to learn more about what she is. But she is largely left without answers and could only teach Ava what she knew. Not everyone gets to or can “BE” a Siren. If you take some of the comic’s explanation into account: Sirens know their successors and they will travel to that person to make them aware that they were chosen and that they will become FULL Sirens (Lilith not having the tattoos on her body when The Eldest came to her after her father had died), pass their powers and psychic telepathy on and die as there can not be more than 7 in existence at a time. It also kind of explains why Troy was not a “full Siren” at birth. Sirens are females, he was a male who was never intended to be a Siren hence his need to “ leech” of of his sister to survive until he killed and STOLE Maya’s powers. Not everyone gets to or can be a Siren.

Tannis was always going to be a Siren, ever since your meeting with her in the Dahl excavation site

@@DK22200 please point out where it is even hinted at that Tannis was always going to be a siren? I'll keep waiting for your evidence. Don't bother using BL3 as your evidence, as that would be circular reasoning.

@@vexedmirage4678 She’s a fucking rogue Dahl scientist obsessed with Eridian technology, she knows more about siren capabilities than anyone else in the galaxy. If you listened to her ECHO logs in BL1 you’d understand. Don’t bother arguing against something you know fuck all about, as that would be irony rhetorical. Stupid fuck

Sad what happened to the sequel though.

it did more for the franchise than all games together

They killed vaughn's character because he was too powerful :(

@@Exel3nce Kind of a broad statement, in what way did it do more for the franchise then say 1 or 2?

Slightly disagree, I loved all of TFTB until the ending portions. Even though Jack's death was actually really well displayed, it sucks he had character development for every single chapter until the end where he just 'randomly becomes a villain' no matter how much you actually see him change before then. Telltale really dropped the ball. That was so disappointing - cause he sorta transforms into this normal-ish mentor for Rhys but the writers decided they had to have a conflict eventually.

That's an underrated part of presequal, the fact all the characters react to what's going on in their own way. Timothy grows more sheepish as jack's character gets darker. Wilhelm and Nisha become more unhinged and grow into the villains they become in borderlands 2 and well claptrap is claptrap. Can't speak for Athena as I never played her

@@harry2597 Athena was very neutral and focused purely on the mission (Outside of Janey flirting with her which threw her off her game), but as soon as Jack started to go darker she began regretting taking the mission and just wanted to get it over with so she could get the fuck out. A lot of Athena's changing thoughts are kind of heard in her telling the story to Lilith and co.

@@Reidlos1773 ah ok, as I expected then

the fact that in the sequel she says “tell hammerlock i’m sorry for being a bad sister” AND THE. COMPLETELY 360?????

@@alyssarahn2650 is that in 3 or TPS?

Felt that. The weird thing is I don't think 16-17 year olds would enjoy it either lol I got a few cousins that age that say 2 is their favorite.

@@bigfreakinfrog bingo. It’s almost like it’s marketed towards them during the development cycle instead of the target audience at release.

The "streamers as villains" is the clearest sign that this game was marketed for the youngsters.

@Frogwater I'm an actual 16 year old and I gotta say I liked 3 way more. Sure the writing was worse but the endgame is so much better. I was really salty about the story but after putting like 150 hours in it I really don't care that much

@@anshitgupta1294 gameplay in 3 was best in the series. If it would’ve had a better story it would be the best in the series.

Bl3 writers based their entire characterisation on something that only happened in Fiona's imagination smh

Aye, not to mention she doesn't have a proper debut trailer like Krieg in BL2 is also a huge let down for me.

In a sense she is kinda Cucked too because she had a crush on Sir Hammerlock.

Remember during the Claptrap DLC in Pre-Sequel when they hinted at her and Axton hunting down allies for a future war they were gonna have? Yeah... that would have been awesome... But no, let's have her be a wedding planner and do NOTHING ELSE!

Massacred her, how so?

Salvador got shafted just the same

I mean that's kinda the same for all the bl games, so it's not much of a valid criticism towards bl3 specifically

@@umairashraf5167 Nah its much more egregious in 3, in 1 and 2 you can really walk away from most conversations or do a side quest to pass the time, there's even simple little tricks you can use to skip dialogue. Pre Sequal does keep you still for a bit but its a much shorter game then the others so it doesn't feel as long. 3 though just seriously forces you to stay near the character or else you wont progress through the mission and there are so many instances that right after a long bit of dialogue, you have to talk to the character again to just continue the story, you cant walk away and you gotta listen unable to do much else, they even lock doors sometimes until you hear everything.

This wouldn't be a problem if the characters and story are exciting. And if zoomers had patience...

@@Dickstick True, but when you do replay the game every now and then you just wanna get a move on, you know the story and if its your third or fourth time playing then you start to care less and less.

​@@Dickstickwhat does zoomers and their patience have to do with this?