Born Sexy Yesterday
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7 жыл бұрынHelp me make more videos!
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This video essay is about a gendered trope that has bothered me for years but didn’t have a name, so I gave it one: Born Sexy Yesterday. It's a science fiction convention in which the mind of a naive, yet highly skilled, girl is written into the body of a mature sexualized woman. Born sexy yesterday is about an unbalanced relationship, but it’s also very much connected to masculinity. The subtext of the trope is rooted in a deep seated male insecurity around experienced women and sexuality.
Note that Born Yesterday isn't meant literally. Born Sexy Yesterday can be written literally but it doesn't have to be. If media uses a "fish out of water" plot to frame an adult woman as an inexperience child then it fits the trope.
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FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT
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FOOTAGE USED
• Tron: Legacy (2010)
• The Fifth Element (1997)
• Born Yesterday (1950)
• Splash (1984)
• My Stepmother is an Alien (1988)
• Sheena (1984)
• Chobits (2002)
• Outlaw Star (1998)
• Enchanted (2007)
• Forbidden Planet (1956)
• The Time Machine (1960)
• Planet of the Apes (1968)
• The New World (2005)
• Stargate (1997)
• Star Trek: The Original Series (1964)
• Star Trek: Voyager (1999)
• Cloud Atlas (2012)
• Sarah Connor Chronicles (2009)
• Pleasantville (1998)
• Big (1988)
• Starman (1984)
• Blast From The Past (1999)
• The Mighty Peking Man (1977)
• Sleeper (1973)
• Demolition Man (1993)
• Mr. Peabody and the Mermaid (1948)
COMMENTS
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FAIR USE
All multimedia clips included in this video constitute a 'fair use' of any copyrighted material as provided for in Section 107 of U.S. Copyright law, which allows for criticism, comment and scholarship. Learn more about fair use with this awesome app by New Media Rights! newmediarights.org/fairuse
CREDITS
Writer/Producer: Jonathan McIntosh
Motion Graphics: Jonathan McIntosh
Logo Design: Justin McIntosh
Outro music: Jonathan Mann
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Help us caption & translate this video!
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@PopCultureDetective 6 жыл бұрын
I've been asked hundreds of times about whether or not I think Diana’s origin story in the new Wonder Woman movie fits into the Born Sexy Yesterday trope. Here are my thoughts on that: www.patreon.com/posts/13186089
@NomadicSage 6 жыл бұрын
The reason why I think Diana doesn't fall into this trope is because she is a adventurer in her own and her unfamiliarity to the foreign world doesn't hold her back. Steve is her equal someone she choose to be with for his qualities.
@CreoTan 5 жыл бұрын
^^ I agree! Diana is naive about this new, foreign culture, but she's still an _adult_ and she's framed in that way mentally and emotionally, unlike the other women who fit the trope.
@weronika8815 Жыл бұрын
@@NomadicSage is so cute 🥰🥰🥰🥰
@NomadicSage Жыл бұрын
@@weronika8815 thanks 😊
@xxxstar90dustxxxr Жыл бұрын
Thank you for that video. As a woman who Looks sexual and has noticed from an early age that if she doesn't act innocent all the insecure misogynistic sick men would label her a wh@re, that was so ingrained in me that I almost made myself stupid. I liked how well you have grasped the whole concept. Allthought it was hard and very triggering to watch. I know now that I am older that the power is within me to not care about those sick men and act like who I truly am. It is still a little bit hard thought, but I am on it! I have been through a lot and I have wasted a lot of time and energy on that trauma... it was hard to get over it (all the disgusting comments, harassments, bullying and critisism from grown men, and worst men my own age, just because I have a curvy body and I look confident) and also mourn my old self and the time wasted. I am sorry for all that deep sharing.... :)
@Toshimi1043 7 жыл бұрын
Anyone else find that sandwich scene kind of terrifying? He literally intimidates her into eating food, which apparently is not natural for her species, and he looks and sounds ready to beat her up if she doesn't obey.
@stephaniechang7376 7 жыл бұрын
Toshimi1043 also that sandwich looked disgustingly limp and unappetizing
@glitch84- 7 жыл бұрын
Toshimi1043 yes, it's disgusting and he is so scary
@katsucandy 7 жыл бұрын
It is. He's not only looming over her menacingly and basically threatening her into eating (seriously, the 'or else' can be heard loud and clearly), but he's also holding a bottle of booze which makes the whole experience 99 times more terrifying. Guy looks a bit like a slightly unfocused copy of any Drunk Husband Hits Wife scene ever. But hey, it was the 80s, where guys showing their machoness by literally throwing women around and forcing them into doing things 'for their own good' and being generally menacing and rough with them was considered socially acceptable and even Sexy. A "man putting a woman in her place", or whatever. The whole 'women treated as disobedient children' thing is extremely old. Doesn't change the fact that it's always been fucked up, we've just been taught that that shit is Terrifying and Not Sympathetic Character material thanks to all the murder mystery tv shows showing us the results of abuse, I assume (which, thank fuck for that. I don't even want to think about all the abused women who must've lived AND seen this shit on tv back in the day and still were told it was a 'desirable' trait to their faces.)
@dreamsicle3113 7 жыл бұрын
Toshimi1043 I REMEMBER THIS BIT FROM WHEN I WAS YOUNGER AND THIS SCENE JUST SOLIDIFIED THE FACT HE'S A MASSIVE DOUCHE. Who gets into anyone's face and intimidates them to eat? There's so much that just feels wrong about the scene I don't understand how anyone thought it was okay.
@meo2640 7 жыл бұрын
Stephanie Chang "disgusting limp and unappealing" for a second I couldn't tell if you were describing the sandwich or the man. 😂
@scpg142 7 жыл бұрын
I've noticed that whenever the born sexy yesterday character is a man, the female in his life tends to act motherly towards him.
@ronmka8931 Жыл бұрын
Almost as if the psychology of men and women are different
@Lizzehmeh Жыл бұрын
@@ronmka8931 or the social expectations are different
@zennloo7343 Жыл бұрын
@@Lizzehmeh I don't think it's a social expectation. I think it's what people are attracted to... Women generally want men on their level. They don't want to have to raise them up. They're not attracted to men they have to raise. They mother them.
@timthorson52 Жыл бұрын
However in Tron that's what "Flynn" was doing, well fatherly, not motherly. Sam and her never had a relationship. He might have had an interest, she's obviously attractive, intelligent, and he gets to see the world in her eyes, but he never makes a move.
@johnkingston1337 Жыл бұрын
@@timthorson52 Couldn’t agree more. They never even flirted. People just expect attractive people in films to hook up. It’s kind of weird how the film really avoids including a romantic angle.
@krokikrumpsun624 Жыл бұрын
“Since he’s the first and only man in this woman’s life he gets to be the best by default.” You hit the nail right on the head.
@TheNefastor Жыл бұрын
As with sports cars, this trope definitely targets men with PP size issues.
@sticc3978 Жыл бұрын
@@TheNefastor bruh this is not at all accurate. What tf are you on about
@mikukene1998 4 ай бұрын
@@TheNefastorBecause nobody wanted a sports car because they like cars and nobody ever wanted to bang an android only to say they did it?
@violetwade6528 4 ай бұрын
@@sticc3978you sound like you took that a lil personal
@Nutzername36 4 ай бұрын
As someone who is into Hifi i can relate to that ;D
@rebeccab.1797 3 жыл бұрын
"Perhaps that because most grown women don't find the idea of dating an inexperienced adolescent boy all that appealing" oooooof
@parallelfinn Жыл бұрын
I think that wording is unfair. Both men and women tend to have somewhat of a saviour complex, naivety doesn't necessarily mean childlike. There's plenty of female fantasy tropes that are as equally laughable but also understandable.
@twosunies Жыл бұрын
@@parallelfinn🤢
@jasonrichard7560 Жыл бұрын
@@twosunies 😂
@parallelfinn Жыл бұрын
@Mœrs hey Moers have you ever heard of this little film called Avatar? When the naive man gets taught by the knowledable Navi woman?
@SMunro Жыл бұрын
Didnt someone go to jail for that last yesr...
@PhilipPetrunak 7 жыл бұрын
I'm honestly shocked how this video never even uttered the phrase "infantilization of women" in which this trope is clearly a part of. Amnesia also commonly pops up in this trope.
@susannahmio 7 жыл бұрын
good point, if you take amnesia into account there are so many more examples!
@TheNumnutRandomness 7 жыл бұрын
So basically the trope is "Sexy, infantilized woman learns love through mediocre man"?
@NickonPlanetRipple 7 жыл бұрын
Yeah. Then idea is if she's never seen another man before, she doesn't have anyone to compare you to, anyone who may prove to be a more impressive specimen be it through looks, skills or brains. So she latches on to the first guy she sees like a wandering child with no frame of reference, and the guy doesn't even have to try to be exceptional. He becomes the focal point of her entire world because her world is very small. To be fair, some of the worldly male protagonists in these stories are genuinely decent guys who wouldn't take advantage of them for that... but you also see some examples of guys who clearly do. And as for the audience? >shudders
@Toshimi1043 7 жыл бұрын
More like, "mediocre man gets sexual validation through an infantilized and objectified woman"
@owen551 4 ай бұрын
@@NickonPlanetRipple “As for the audience,”what? What do you mean? What are you implying with that?
@beethovensfidelio 4 ай бұрын
@@NickonPlanetRippleWhat audience? If you’re talking about men, that makes sense since those movies are male fantasies! But women watch those “male fantasy” movies too (“Tron: Legacy”, “Fifth Element”, “Splash”, “Enchanted”)
@solaire7046 3 ай бұрын
So you're not allowed to be an average guy? And if you're an average guy you don't deserve anything good? Give guys a break.
@barbaram5769 Жыл бұрын
Personally, the most disturbing thing, to me, about this trope is how easily and often the male protagonist tricks a the born sexy yesterday girl into sexual acts, like saying that kissing is a custom required for health. NO! That's creepy!
@Kvast Жыл бұрын
And it's being shown as "romantic" 🤢
@ttt5020 Жыл бұрын
beyond creepy, full on sexual assault :( being informed is part of consent
@thecompl33tnoob Жыл бұрын
You're absolutely right. I feel like the Venn diagram between the type of power-hungry sociopathic monsters that tend to rise to the top of power structures (f*** you, Harvey Weinstein) and the type of people who lack the empathy, self-awareness, and conscience to date a grown woman is a near perfect circle.
@TacoMan99 Жыл бұрын
Yall do know that in 1956 romance itself was different and speaking on it now as “creepy” is undermining the difference in time period. In those times women were assumed strictly housewife’s and a strong man was all a woman wanted
@briankeys5941 Жыл бұрын
@@TacoMan99 dude most of these ppl dont know what its like to not have a cell phone for a week, much less think for themselves. I wonder if they are using the app, showing the 12k dislikes.
@abbymccutcheon1751 Жыл бұрын
'profoundly naive and unimaginable wise' reminds me of "very mature for your age" and both are red flags of grooming
@debbiegilmour6171 4 ай бұрын
It's also a complete oxymoron.
@colinjohnston9824 2 ай бұрын
Mature for your age fits a lot of situations, usually not related to grooming, but occasionally possibly so. A 20yo being told they are Mature for their age simply implies they probably aren't out partying hard and are focused on career instead. Alternatively, Mature for your age is often said to people who have been through a variety of trauma that has shattered the childhood illusion that the world is a safe and kind place.
@beethovensfidelio 2 ай бұрын
@@colinjohnston9824Calling a 21-year-old woman “mature for her age” is different than calling a 10-year-old girl “mature for her age” because the 21-year-old woman is a LEGAL ADULT in terms of her *owning a gun, voting, graduating from college, driving a car, having sex, getting a job, drinking alcohol, and smoking.* Legally, a 10-year-old girl can’t do any of those things. A 21-year-old woman may be immature due to her brain still developing and her limited life experience, but she is NOT a child.
@colinjohnston9824 2 ай бұрын
@@beethovensfidelio I agree, but in the context of the movies there is never any ambiguity about how old the women are, they are all clearly early 20's to 30's. Comparing the movies in this video to child grooming is just inflationary and farcical. It would be different if we were talking about Leon the Professional, where the actress was literally a minor playing a minor, but Leon wasn't giving into her advances so even then it doesn't really play into the child grooming narrative. I just think we should avoid diluting the seriousness and horror of child grooming by comparing it to a cinema trope.
@joeymoffett00 2 ай бұрын
I've heard both of these from girls older than me. It's the most flattering thing, but leaves you dependent on others estimation of yourself.
@not_them 7 жыл бұрын
there's so many issues about informed consent in this trope, and it's so disturbing. watching male characters lie about kissing and not explain the implications is awful
@TheNefastor Жыл бұрын
It basically sounds like grooming.
@salmon_wine Жыл бұрын
I really disagree with a lot of the "this trope exists because men secretly want to be pedophiles" or "the trope only exists due to insecure men," as the trope itself is a combined inversion of three of the Feminine Monsters; the Temptress and the Castrator, except reversed. The Born Sexy Yesterday character is often tempting for more pure reasons- I think a lot of the discomfort around the archetype comes from american culture's view of sex as inherently "impure," hence why the trope is still more common in, say, Japanese media. Drive (2011) is a good example of the female love interest being a "key to happiness," so I feel that this aspect of the trope is more misinterpreted intent. But THE SECOND that dishonesty for personal gain is introduced into the equation, the entire thing is gross and difficult to look at in any way other than the least charitable interpretation. Hence why I think it is still a useful trope to have in your toolbelt, if you have the tact to use it correctly.
@songl2544 7 жыл бұрын
I am astounded by the fact this might be the least toxic comment thread in youtube history...it's all just constructive criticism and dialogue
@PopCultureDetective 7 жыл бұрын
I've been doing some heavy moderation to try to keep it constructive and to weed out all the name calling from angry dudes etc.
@Selestrielle 7 жыл бұрын
I was wondering about this too. Most feminism-oriented discussion online gets bucketloads of crap, I can't imagine it would be very different without comment curation on this video. That's one hell of a moderation job you did!
@feliciadale1740 7 жыл бұрын
Agree! Thank you so much for the video and for the moderation!
@DairunCates 7 жыл бұрын
+Pop Culture Detective: I was gonna make a comment about how sadly people just don't tend to search out things that don't challenge them if it's not on the front page, but your moderation is VERY MUCH appreciated. Just discovered you today. Keep up the excellent content.
@Kalleesto 7 жыл бұрын
RE: Weeding out the angry dudes - thank you. I can imagine that would not be a quick few minutes of work ...
@TheCrimsonDrummer 4 жыл бұрын
It's crazy how so many creepy things are normalized through media
@vodkaboy Жыл бұрын
Humans are rather creepy
@mistersir3020 Жыл бұрын
Man gets cute woman "creepy"
@pinkraven4402 Жыл бұрын
How does this comment have 13k likes and 1 reply?
@mistersir3020 Жыл бұрын
@@pinkraven4402 haha
@mistersir3020 Жыл бұрын
@@pinkraven4402 somebody paid for likes
@Melcatsite 4 жыл бұрын
She held up the most basic sandwich in the world and called it exquisite. Then this man actually bragged about it.
@theshushu7940 Жыл бұрын
What? Bro you ever ate dry bread? This would for sure be fucking exquisite in basically any third world country
@thecoldglassofwatershow Жыл бұрын
@@theshushu7940 I ate dry bread for dinner last night and I live in America, New England to be precise. I could really go for some ham and cheese rn 😩
@OGRE_HATES_NERDS Жыл бұрын
it looked like a pretty damn good sandwich to me
@fondajames 4 ай бұрын
@theshushu7940 well then you have bo concept of other cultures. Culunary skill is not a developed nation idea, india had better food than the UK when the UK took it over. Now an indian dish is one of the most popular in the UK
@Funeral_Mannequin 4 ай бұрын
@theshushu7940 Lmao, clearly you’ve never been to a third world country.
@ilikeceral3 7 жыл бұрын
What creeps me out the most about this trope is how it associates childish traits with sexual overtones, thus sexualizing traits of children. It's a nasty pedophillic undertone.
@hyperelliptik 7 жыл бұрын
Infantilization in any form is rather gross, just take a look at Anime nowadays.
@rainy.. 7 жыл бұрын
ilikeceral3 yes yes yes, never could place my finger on what these tropes were or why they made me uncomfortable- its so subtle and kind of insidious
@avidreader2316 7 жыл бұрын
yup its so gross. it's almost like men like naive, innocent, pure women. I think something else that could be added to this would be the appearance of the female body. They almost always show them exclusively as hairless and nymph like, nothing like an actual woman looks like.
@Gat_Play Жыл бұрын
@@avidreader2316 But they show real woman there, not painted.
@Sebastian-hg3xc Жыл бұрын
In most cases the attraction is towards youth, not children. There is a difference between a young woman and a girl.
@Katinka0218 7 жыл бұрын
This is why "nice guys" are shocked that all girls aren't tripping over each other to be with him
@mylesleggette7520 Жыл бұрын
No, that's because girls blather on endlessly about how all they want is a nice guy, even though what they really want is a bad guy to be nice to them.
@Bubba__Sawyer 4 ай бұрын
I don't see how that really applies here. It's also such a lazy comment that bad boy chasers always use to deflect.
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
@@Bubba__Sawyer “Nice guys” aren’t really nice since they just pretend to be nice in order to get into a girl’s pants. Women aren’t obligated to date a guy just because he’s nice to her. Niceness is the bare minimum. “Nice guys” have nothing to offer outside of their niceness like charm, good sense of humor, assertiveness, good looks, or talent.
@edwin7834 Ай бұрын
@@beethovensfideliowouldnt even accredit them the niceness, its the bare minimum with the idea that that means they get the girl. because they dont treat girls/women equally, just their love interest, thats why they arent succesful
@fightinggamegeek9238 Ай бұрын
@@beethovensfidelioMotto: If you have to say you’re a nice guy, you’re probably not. (I’m using the Royal “you.”)
@Bakerygo 4 жыл бұрын
It screams "male insecurity" all over the place and I couldn't agree more with a video/creator.
@arthurkineard7356 Жыл бұрын
It is not male insecurity it is a male preference for purity. Much like a women's preference for a partner that is is successful.
@BK-ob3lo Жыл бұрын
@@arthurkineard7356 Why are these recent comments so creepy? The Tate cult has really been a bad influence on you kids.
@thefuturist8864 Жыл бұрын
Perhaps you're right, but maybe 'male insecurity' indicates something about our society and shouldn't be dismissed in pathological terms. There is a tendency to write off certain behaviours and groups with language that trivialises them; meanwhile, the reoccurrence of this particular trope (along with others) tells us something about what it is to be male in modern society. When we trivialise the experience of men we are no better than anyone else who has sought to dismiss the experiences of a group as not worth bothering about.
@pragmata7997 4 ай бұрын
@@thefuturist8864someone needs to make a video exactly about what you said, that yes, these tropes are mostly wrong and strange, but maybe the issue isn't the trope itself or the target audience, but rather why it works. After all, if there wasn't a problem, men wouldn't have these insecurities. The point is, men wouldn't have this fantasy of finding a pure and innocent woman if they didn't have issues with mature women because this fantasy arises from an insecurity, a problem, which shouldn't be seen as solely a one-sided problem (only the man's). If the guy is normal, polite, and generally quite average, I don't think he should be ostracized by more mature women, but this happens quite a bit, which intensifies this fantasy. Someone needs to make a video about this.
@1august12 4 ай бұрын
@@arthurkineard7356 The "male preference for purity" itself is rooted in insecurity, more specifically the fear of being compared to previous partners (other men) and feeling inadequate. You can't be found lacking if your partner has nobody to compare you with.
@Nicolae_Mew 2 жыл бұрын
This hits the same note as the male obsession with female virginity.
@ShiftedGames Жыл бұрын
Yeah a Pederass note.
@JoJoFlare Жыл бұрын
“Male obsession with female virginity”= not wanting a clapped out 240z for a gf
@sophieruby5893 Жыл бұрын
@@redmarble5624 If you want a virgin, then be a virgin. Don't be a hypocrite.
@mistersir3020 Жыл бұрын
It _is_ exactly the male preference for female inexperiencedness (which will safeguard fidelity, at least increase the chance).
@arsangelica6858 Жыл бұрын
It goes far beyond virginity. There are two sides to that interest in virginity. One is the desire not to have a high body count on your partner, with the attendant risk of STDs and other complications, including, by some accounts, emotional/hormonal bonds with past partners leaving something of a trail of wreckage. But some women have these concerns about men also. The other is the desire to be the only one in your partner’s life. If you as a man are also saving yourself for the right person, this comes from a place of veneration and cannot be called unpleasant. But if you as a man have been doing whatever you please, this seems hypocritical, and also carries the odor of desire for control. And this trope plays into that latter dynamic about as hard as possible, going way beyond mere interest in bodily chastity.
@user-ud2pq4wr4h 6 жыл бұрын
The idea of wanting a child in a grown woman's body is so deeply disturbing. It's steeped in control, power, ego, and pedophila.
@TheNefastor Жыл бұрын
I'm so glad this comment has so many likes.
@Sound_Tech Жыл бұрын
Isn't pedophilia the attraction to a child's body? While these characters are mentally children, I don't know that it's necessarily pedophilia. The people writing these fantasies want the characters to be grown adults without the experience to say no.
@FACTBOT_5000 Жыл бұрын
Pedophilia doesn't have much to do with personality. It seems purely physical in nature. No? Your comment doesn't make sense. Men just want a mature woman who will respect and appreciate their strength and leadership. Modern women too often reject this in the name of some misguided concept of equality. Men and women are as equal as football players and basketball players. They can both be great, but only in their respective specialized sports. You apparently don't understand men. If you are a woman, that makes sense.
@iheartblock3792 Жыл бұрын
@@FACTBOT_5000 ok you fucking weirdo
@tibbsazoid Жыл бұрын
Let me guess, you have blue hair..
@zlypy 7 жыл бұрын
I wish you had mentioned George of the Jungle (1997) ! I think that movie is so great because it very accurately parodies the "born sexy yesterday" trope but with a man, and is very self-aware in how it is using the trope
@solidsnake58 7 жыл бұрын
Brendan Fraser, again.
@jenni4claire 4 ай бұрын
And its never creepy.
@yoursoraka5019 4 ай бұрын
He does it again in cave man @@solidsnake58
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
@@jenni4claire It helps that “George the Jungle” was co-written by a woman: Audrey Wells.
@EC-qz2kw 2 ай бұрын
@@jenni4claireyou just have double standards
@bennyton2560 3 жыл бұрын
I've been directed here from a subreddit. Notice that when there's a kiss scene, the guy always initiates it and moves to put his hand on the woman's face/neck, tilts her head, strokes her hair etc, while the woman just stands there like a statue. Guys act; women only react. In Wonder Woman from 2017 that is not the case: when Steve touches Diana's face, Diana touches his face too; they both lean in to kiss. This shows that a female character can be done well when her innocence is no longer her defining trait. Forever grateful for Patty Jenkins
@sophieruby5893 Жыл бұрын
I've seen in old movies where the man is kissing the woman so hard that her head is tilted back as far as it can go. That can't be comfortable for her.
@beethovensfidelio 4 ай бұрын
@@sophieruby5893Blame the Hays Code for that!
@gracelandtoo6240 4 ай бұрын
Curb it with the antisemitic remarks.
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
@@sophieruby5893 Blame the Hays code for that!
@QueenyBunny 2 ай бұрын
@youreANnpc. There's a difference between taking the lead and being a creep, and that difference is called "consent".
@xF3ARL3SSx43VR 4 жыл бұрын
Also, usually her lack of an internalized emotional experience makes it so he has nothing to emotionally compete with. He just "wins" and "gets" her with no pushback. The biggest gross male fantasy - a woman who is somehow incapable of truly saying no because there aren't any emotions within her to protest, OR instead, a programmed need to emotionally please and be a pleasure to be around, which agrees with his wants.
@dhirajpallin2572 Жыл бұрын
Isn't competing kinda gross too though? It's not like you're replacing something ick with something perfect. It's just different kinds of ick.
@J_weew4756 2 ай бұрын
@@dhirajpallin2572 i feel like it's not about "competing vs complying", but about the woman actually having an opinion about the man's advances and her having the freedom to choose either to reject or accept them... or to punch him in the face when needed.
@QueenyBunny 2 ай бұрын
@@dhirajpallin2572Having an opinion and being able to set boundaries is not competing, it's called being an autonomous human being.
@dhirajpallin2572 2 ай бұрын
It's OP's words not mine.@@QueenyBunny
@QueenyBunny 2 ай бұрын
@@dhirajpallin2572 She didn't use the right words, but the message is still the same. I don't know what you were trying to argue about. Maybe I didn't understand your comment.
@jaycejohnson6846 6 жыл бұрын
"Children won't realize you're inadequate." -Lost Girls
@JamEngulfer 6 жыл бұрын
This is making me realise how incredibly creepy the whole thing is.
@thomasjones4893 2 жыл бұрын
I’m an asexual dude so it doesn’t apply to me so much but all of my female asexual friends have had dudes try hit on them but when finding out they’re ace tell them that they can “fix them” I think this trope could be supporting that idea that women have to be taught how to love
@OGRE_HATES_NERDS Жыл бұрын
so like you dont get horny?
@bjrnbjrnson4823 Жыл бұрын
I think it has more to do with "the right to have sex" as an intrinsic toxic male idea. So that the only reason for a woman to not have sex (with them personally) is a lack of knowledge.
@imnaelywa5113 2 жыл бұрын
This is such a big thing used in Anime. Totally naive, innocent yet sexy and experienced "waifu"
@luk11c4 Жыл бұрын
Yep, anime is for creeps.
@TheHappyZappy Жыл бұрын
@@luk11c4I promise not all anime is bad! You just need to watch out for some of them 😅 it’s only one particular medium of expression from one particular country, and like any medium (as seen in this video, most of the examples are American films!) there are upsides and downsides…
@twister1154 4 ай бұрын
A lot of anime isn't bad, it's interesting while the video makes it clear it was a sci-fi trope to begin with, when sci-fi anime are shown as examples, it's because anime is the problem instead of it being a problem with sci-fi.
@willstamcgee11 4 ай бұрын
@@luk11c4categorizing a whole genre because a sun-genre is bad makes YOU part of the overall problem
@inuhundchien6041 3 ай бұрын
But I mean almost always these waifus are less than 16 years old so it's possible to be innocent but still look sexy without the character itself thinking they are doing anything sexy. In addition the protagonist is also almost always less than 16 years old innocent boy. The not innocent ones are always the authors and the readers putting these kids in unsavoury situations.
@LovelyAngel. 6 жыл бұрын
When I was little I always thought kisses in movies are all staged (as in characters don't really touch each other's lips but it's an editing skill) because despite the film plots I couldn't believe the actresses would willingly kiss the gross older men they're usually coped with.
@mylesleggette7520 Жыл бұрын
Then you grew up and realized that for most women, actresses especially, if it's what they have to do to get paid, they'll kiss just about anybody, and a whole lot more than that. Thank goodness we now have a social movements that allow them to claim they didn't have a choice...
@pinkmenace2452 Жыл бұрын
@Myles Leggette wow! it’s so amazing how you completely missed the point of the original comment!
@teacherfromthejungles6671 Жыл бұрын
I bet you never watched movies with sex scenes where actors ... have real sex! imagine that!
@k4rec4 Жыл бұрын
@@teacherfromthejungles6671 You mean, porn?
@tanner4280 Жыл бұрын
@@mylesleggette7520 it must be exhausting spending so much time under one KZfaq channel crying about how you as a man don’t have it good enough
@Nverdis 7 жыл бұрын
The Chobits bit reminded me how much "born sexy yesterday" overlaps with how female robots are portrayed vs male robots in science fiction. With female robots, almost all of them are naive, completely submissive, and in some cases, literal sex toys. Most male robots, on the other hand, have the opportunity to be exceptionally cunning and dynamic, even if they were originally built to be servants themselves. All too often one can see misogynist men gloating about how they "wouldn't need women anymore" if robot women became reality. I can see the parallels such a statement has with what you said about how men construct this woman-child fantasy to avoid the fear of rejection or lack of control. tl;dr Seriously, when was the last time you've seen a human-looking male robot accidentally walk out of the house without any clothes or be childish in nature?
@jamess950 7 жыл бұрын
Yes of course, those stories are written by men for men.
@melissapaton8651 7 жыл бұрын
Which is why it's totally valid to ask for more female writers 👍🏼
@zimtkind2255 7 жыл бұрын
Nverdis Chobits is actually created by Clamp, which is a team of women. Doesn't make this any less problematic though. That manga is toxic.
@lillysmith5505 7 жыл бұрын
This is another reason why I really like the character Bishop from Aliens. Although he isn't a sex object, he definitely includes components of innocence that we usually find exclusively in female bots.
@kathylennerds750 7 жыл бұрын
And even if the female robots weren't like that they'd most likely be a foe in the story or generally formed to be dislikeable. Probably only by the time they'd change and "admit to their weakness" or some bs like that they are presented as likeable and/or desirable.
@fatosirrelevantes 3 жыл бұрын
it's funny because the characters who are female and usually knowledgeable or smart are seen as the 'ugly' unwanted geek. or the "quirky girl" who's constantly seen as maternal and/or best friend, until she finds another geek of equal "brain capacity" to love her.
@lagopusvulpuz1571 4 ай бұрын
It's the same with male intellectual characters on media. Often called the Nerd & unattractive. It's not just a Gender thing. Intelligent people are often misunderstood & tend to focus more on things rather than people tending to be more socially awkward.
@learodriguez6912 3 ай бұрын
When i finished watching Poor Things, the first thing that came to my mind was this video essay
@majocalle7660 3 ай бұрын
Glad I’m not the only one
@lilwaffleiron7845 3 ай бұрын
Yeah same here, but poor things felt like a sort of reinvention of this trope, where her empowerment and self-discovery take center stage, which I appreciate, even if it still exploited something icky.
@abwils7195 2 ай бұрын
But its commentary on both the trope and the reality of men fetishizing female innocence (at least thats how it felt to me). It was meant to make you feel uncomfortable, and the ridiculousness of Mark Ruffalos character and his decline as he realises he can't rely on her stupidity to make her love him is presented as comedy rather than tragedy. I thought it was great and valid use of the trope.
@IronheartvsMiles 2 ай бұрын
@lilwaffleiron7845 its the same thing acting like it not the same
@dongatello6969 Ай бұрын
Isn’t she supposed to be a child in the book?
@tessaviolet 5 жыл бұрын
I can't stop thinking about this video.
@tessaviolet 5 жыл бұрын
I freaking love Seven. I've never seen Cloud Atlas but looking forward to it.
@thebatman6201 Жыл бұрын
@@tessaviolet born sexy yesterday sounds fun in the span of a movie.. but would be so annoying in practice. As a wise woman once said "i like the idea of you"
@beethovensfidelio 4 ай бұрын
@@thebatman6201It depends on the gender. Men “born sexy yesterday” would become an annoyance to women in the long run because women are tired of being the “mommy” in the relationship. Women “born sexy yesterday” wouldn’t become an annoyance to men in the long run, unless the woman starts to gain autonomy, in which the creepy, insecure guy gets mad and violent.
@thebatman6201 4 ай бұрын
@beethovensfidelio I don't see how that would matter at all. Men would get tired of being the parent in the relationship, too.. And there are plenty of angry insecure women.. I'm just not sold on your theory. Sorry
@EbonyPope 3 ай бұрын
Don't. It's a bunch of nonsense trying to pathologize a normal male phantasy which is played for laughs. We're talking about someone who takes a comedy way too serious. That should tell you everything.
@KaletheQuick 7 жыл бұрын
I wanna make a movie where two people meet and they both think the other is all naive but it turns out they just don't have overlapping areas of expertise.
@opposumness3107 10 ай бұрын
An honorable mention is the female robot (can't remember her name) in Ex Machina, who manipulates - not only the characters in the story with her "sexual innocence" - but also tricking the audience into thinking she is a Born Sexy Yesterday character.
@kierancawley3990 3 ай бұрын
Ava if I remember correctly
@5b_c4ll3d_p4ul 3 ай бұрын
underrated comment
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
@@kierancawley3990You are correct!
@lolusuck386 3 ай бұрын
She doesn't manipulate, she learns the true colors of the protagonist.
@opposumness3107 3 ай бұрын
Well, I agree with the second half of your statement, @@lolusuck386 But if what she does is not manipulative, then I don't know what is.
@fatcat1414 Жыл бұрын
I think the grossest thing about this trope is the idea that the BSY character is almost paradoxically sexually pure while constantly making herself available to be oogled at and touched sexually (as seen with moments like them being nude in front of men.) It's extremely disconcerting that this trope makes the ideal woman out to be one that 1) cannot exist irl in any healthy capacity and 2) logically degrades the second a man that desperately wants to have sex with her actually does so, at least consensually.
@OsirusHandle 2 ай бұрын
there is something else thats odd though. i think there is a relief in that character not sexually judging you, perhaps the flip side of "you dont have to compete" is that you are freed from the very field of social pressure that they later recompine sexually perhaps indicates the instability of this, that despite being free their enjoyment is still reliant on it: the sexual relation later confirms "ah, you really did have the social value".
@OsirusHandle 2 ай бұрын
the Ops comment at the end expresses this dilemna: Experience is sexy, innocence is not. This encourages valuation of womens agency and so on, good, but hang on: doesnt is double down on social sexual competition and so on? That women who arent powerful, dont know it all, etc. arent desirable? Perhaps that is a good thing, since it encourages people thus to give women this, rather than withold it from them: but it can backfire painfully. For men, for example, the idea "they are mediocre and dont have to compete" explicitly announces that mediocre men arent enough, that if you arent the sexiest and hardest working you arent worth love. Same with women. Not so simple then.
@QueenyBunny 2 ай бұрын
@@OsirusHandle So esentially, this trope was created to cater insecure men.
@Yumyumsyruphasfun 7 жыл бұрын
female characters are written so terribly in most movies/tv shows. they always have to be sexy, and they alwaaaaays have to fall in love with the main character.
@evilxeye 7 жыл бұрын
feminists have been saying all this for decades and constantly gotten shit for it, so i appreciate how you delineate it clearly and concisely for a general audience. something i realized during the video is that the shift towards white ideals and "purity" in this trope is really just an extension of that old racist colonialist background.
@wishingonthemoon1 Жыл бұрын
Sorry for the double comment, but as someone who was groomed and infantilized, this trope has made its way into real life. I’ve seen it happen to friends, too. I didn’t recognize it until it happened to me and then I was married to my abuser and couldn’t get out. Innocence is not sexy. You know something is wrong, but you don’t know why. Your objections are being ignored, so you just go along with everything. Then you gain emotional maturity, and you learn to properly understand and properly object, only now your objections get punished.
@YaminiBerbi 2 ай бұрын
I hope you got out of this situation safely. I wish you the best and I'll pray for your well being
@wishingonthemoon1 2 ай бұрын
@@YaminiBerbi thank you
@SalomeJapiashvili-py7md 3 ай бұрын
And now we have "Poor Things" as well. It might be a criticism of the idea, but on the other hand, I am not even sure whether it criticizes this notion or rather romanticizes it even more...
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
It sounds more like it’s a subversion where it plays the trope straight AND deviates from it. A subversion is different than an aversion.
@aljaroiba 3 ай бұрын
I am confused too. While I think it turns the trope on its head, I feel the movie is just portraying a different male fantasy and hiding behind a “critic” to sexism…
@blank5519 3 ай бұрын
@@aljaroiba it would explain the 500 sex scenes
@SalomeJapiashvili-py7md 3 ай бұрын
@@aljaroiba yeah, I have the same feeling
@dhyana7880 3 ай бұрын
Was looking for this comment. It felt like watching SA happen to a child for two hours. Awful. Even if it wanted to be a subversion of the trope, the way Bella’s reactions were written and how the “””sex””” scenes were portrayed made it feel like the whole thing was a fantasy brought to the screen. And some clever dialogues mocking Mark Ruffalo and the “happy “ ending do not take this feeling away AT ALL. There’s so much to unpack in this movie… it’s a shame, and I so wanted to love this movie and had been waiting for it for months ..
@YamiToastDev 6 жыл бұрын
This trope has bothered me for a long time now. The way that the girl is often depicted as being child-like makes it creepy. I wish Japan would calm down with this trope and use it less.
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
Yet this trope has been used in American and European films, so if anything, the patriarchal obsession with female virginity is a global problem.
@EC-qz2kw 2 ай бұрын
@@beethovensfidelioIt's a non-problem, promiscuity is a bad thing
@haleboppshebopp 5 жыл бұрын
It amazes me when I try to explain this to men and they're like "Ugh, it's just a movie! Get over it". But when men are portrayed as total idiots or womanizing douches in movies they get annoyed... like "Hmph, NOT ALL MEN!".
@thefuturist8864 Жыл бұрын
It's almost as if they're people with their own beliefs, feelings and experiences, right?
@chilichinashop 4 ай бұрын
This reminds me of the Barbie movie discourse with the Ken’s (even though their depiction was fairly forgiving considering what took place 😅)
@stevenobrien7686 4 ай бұрын
I know this was written four years ago, but it really deserves to be said, that these two examples of media portrayal are in no way comparable.
@justsomenobody889 4 ай бұрын
The thing is, it’s very easy to pick on any tropes in movies and analyze it to reveal an unflattering truth about the viewer. For instance, I’m sure most women wouldn’t be terribly keen to explain why r*p* fantasies really get them going (weirdly common, which is perhaps why so many of them were turned on watching Game of Thrones), or why most people (male and female) absolutely adore watching gratuitous physical violence. If we’re to be as charitable as possible here, the trope just reveals the preponderance of men who find themselves wishing for something nearly impossible: that a beautiful woman thinks he’s special. How horrifying? The trope in its most innocent form is just meeting that need, which although indeed pathetic, isn’t any more pathetic than how chick flicks play up the trope of “win over the rich dude despite initially rejecting him and eventually become a pretty pretty princess” and how it reflects on their desire for unearned wealth and to be prized with much fanfare for their physical appearance. Now yes, when the male character starts acting sleezy, that feels gross. But in a lot of these the male character doesn’t take advantage even though he could, which makes me more willing to put it in the “harmless fantasy about someone who thinks I’m special” category And yeah, in case you’re about to attack me for it, I’m an experienced woman, so hardly one who enjoys a trope like this personally
@stevenobrien7686 4 ай бұрын
@@justsomenobody889 You are an absolute angel for giving a reasonable breakdown of this. It's highly fashionable these days to break down any male fantasy, or trait of male attraction and pessimistically deconstruct it into some innately evil, and harmful thing akin to murder, or R8pe, or pedo, or anything similar. It's a terribly destructive fad, that is highly damaging to male female relationships, and honestly needs to be called out for how unnecessarily negative and destructive it is.
@yesreneau 3 ай бұрын
Just saw Poor Things, and I can't stop thinking of how much it fits into this trope
@hugolena111 3 ай бұрын
Omg yes. I just watched Poor Things as well and it made me think about this KZfaq video 🥲
@gizmo26000 3 ай бұрын
I just wanted to say that, Bella is such a great example
@marco1824 3 ай бұрын
I thought so too but by the end of it´s more of a subversion of the trope.
@yc3099 29 күн бұрын
No, more like a subversion of the trope. It's what the men around Bella try to accomplish, but ultimately, fail. Bella's far too independent, intelligent, and self-centered to stay as their BSY doll.
@itzalion 3 ай бұрын
The trope is basically an adult man dating a 16-18 year old girl.
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
True, since some grown men will think any woman over 25 is old! Looking at you, Leonardo Di Caprio! 😤 There’s a difference between a 26 year old woman dating a 40 year old man, and a 16 year old girl dating a 40 year old man. Women in their 20s are able to give consent! Women in their 20s aren’t children!
@user-eg3uh3cu3g 3 ай бұрын
More like a 12 yo girl. With a mature body.
@SayHelloHelli 6 жыл бұрын
As a young, cynical virgin this trope is hilarious. If a guy found out I was inexperienced and he expected some timid, naive, waif he would be disappointed.
@ToyKnives 7 жыл бұрын
I feel like I knew this subconsciously, but never really realized it until now. Very cool video!
@SmoothRiker 7 жыл бұрын
Same here, and every time I'd watch something new with this trope in it I'd be like "Oh, I see, it's one of these"
@finalizer0 7 жыл бұрын
Yep, the video gave a name to something I've been seeing for a while now, particularly in anime. This along with the childification of female characters is something that's been bothering me, turning me away from a lot of series.
@nitewarden 7 жыл бұрын
I hadn't realized just how pervasive this trope is in movies. It's why I had so much contempt for Chobits. Everyone was into that manga/anime and I was like, why? She's literally a robot puppy dog with no inner thoughts or desires of her own. She's there to be cute and innocent to some boring dude and nothing else.
@skeletontime1223 4 жыл бұрын
I realized a lot of times when I see this trope occurring I think that the man will become a father figure! But right when I see the way he reacts to the woman I’m like “ahhh geez.”
@emma-nj4bz 3 ай бұрын
just saw poor things (2023) and couldnt get this video out of my head the entire time
@fp9204 7 жыл бұрын
Ex Machina seems to have realised this as well, and really plays around with this trope
@TheMellowFilmmaker 6 жыл бұрын
Fun ways to subvert this trope: The Born Sexy Yesterday girl then finds a guy that is a bit better and leaves the protagonist's ass. The protagonist end up finding the Born Sexy Yesterday girl boring because they have nothing to relate to. The protagonist gets convicted of rape or pedophilia. "Yes, this woman may be physically 30 years old, but her actual numerical age is 8 so your going to fucking jail". The Born Sexy Yesterday girl finds out she's asexual. The Born Sexy Yesterday girl finds out she's a lesbian. The Born Sexy Yesterday girl accidentally injures the guy during sex because of her naivety. The Born Sexy Yesterday girl ends up having sex with so many guys/ girls after the protagonist taught her what sex was, because he didn't mention monogamy or commitment, thus thinking that Sex was just a fun thing that people did. The guy who's trying to take advantage of the Born Sexy Yesterday girl is the bad guy. and there's probably more that I'm not thinking of.
@dianadionysusbacchus Жыл бұрын
genius brilliant incredible 🕶
@mylesleggette7520 Жыл бұрын
People who subvert tropes usually do so because they do not have an understanding of the deeper universal themes the trope embodies that lead to it becoming so common that it is a "trope" in the first place. They seek novelty and surprise at the expense of a rich exploration of the human experience. Your suggestions are a great example of this: the way they address subverting the trope are shallow and juvenile, and show that you do not understand why this trope exists or what it is about.
@vidu8925 Жыл бұрын
you took the ideas right out of mind. thanks a lot!
@nicholassmith5611 Жыл бұрын
These are awesome
@ThaJay Жыл бұрын
The Born Sexy Yesterday girl ends up having sex with so many guys/ girls after the protagonist taught her what sex was, because he didn't mention monogamy or commitment, thus thinking that Sex was just a fun thing that people did. This but unironically
@nostyleja Жыл бұрын
The internet needs more content like this: less angry ranting, and more actually educated pieces with valid thought-provoking observations that open discussions rather than flame wars.
@SweetiePie-ze2oe 2 ай бұрын
After watching Poor Things i had to watch this video again
@suwaysabdi9901 2 ай бұрын
hahah i just watched the movie too and omw home knew i needed to find this analysis video again. poor things really diasppointed me :(
@furbyhasteeth 2 ай бұрын
@@punkiimi If the film is that vague about the message and still flaunts the born sexy yesterday themes, then I reckon it failed in its efforts. I can imagine people that enjoy this creepy fantasy would enjoy “poor things” despite whatever subtle message it wants to push about the trope
@Queensthief195 7 жыл бұрын
This analysis is excellent. However, the final reminder that "innocence is not sexy" and "experience is sexy" is just as problematic for me because it still centres men's desires as the deciding factor in how to plot a story, and puts what men find sexy (or should find sexy) as what matters. The fact that stories are centered around male point of view exclusively is the problem. Creating a Mrs. Dalloway, who exists to give the inexperienced male protagonist experience, is just as bad, in my opinion. Instead, create stories from female points of view, or from a balanced point of view in which both female and male characters have authentic arcs (not one existing to prop up the other). Unfortunately, movies with a female point of view or which appeal to female sexuality are extremely rare. Even movies with female protagonists are often written by men and centre a male gaze.
@AuroraMoon2000 7 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I'd like it if there was more movies that would appeal to couples out on dates, or even just single people of all genders. a little something for both genders.. eyecandy for the woman, eyecandy for the man, etc. Instead of dividing it into "romcoms for ladies" and "fun adventure movies for dudes".
@PopCultureDetective 7 жыл бұрын
Good points and very useful criticism. In my mind I was thinking of those last few lines of the video as applying to characters of any gender but I'm realizing I needed to state that explicitly and didn't which makes it sound like I'm centering male desires. So thanks for the comment. Gonna keep this in mind for future videos.
@BlakeFaeMorton 7 жыл бұрын
Would not a better conclusion have been that equal relationships are sexy rather than experience being sexy? Everyone has to start somewhere and I fully believe it is healthier to do so with someone equally inexperienced.
@VanlockFR 7 жыл бұрын
You can add an annotation under your last statement in the video. :) Excellent analysis !
@elvnprince 7 жыл бұрын
Wow, yes. So well explained. It's the ultimate participation trophy: get a gorgeous, wise, and sweet woman who adores you as her hero and savior without any bothersome personal development, maturity, or relationship skill.
@JediJuniper92 4 жыл бұрын
The Time Machine (1960) is an excellent choice for explaining this trope, especially because in the book Weena looks like a young child, so her actions and naivety match her physical form, and the Time Traveller essentially views her as such, but also as a sort of pet he doesn't quite understand. They took all that into the film, but made her a beautiful young woman so the fantasy factor can come into play, and...it's just all quite disturbing in general...
@JessiPeele Жыл бұрын
Imagine if Buddy the Elf was sexualized.
@jenni4claire 4 ай бұрын
I cannot
@user-tw3rh9po4t 3 ай бұрын
I can. For a millisecond before forgetting.
@suzylovesmambo 7 жыл бұрын
Mike and Eleven's relationship in Stranger Things. They even do the disrobing thing.
@jacm4150 7 жыл бұрын
the fact that they're literally children makes it more weird tbh
@Chikorita2Chante 6 жыл бұрын
"Perhaps that's because most women don't find the idea of dating an inexperienced, adolescent boy all that appealing." Probably because it's morally wrong and feels entirely icky? Great video, once again. Inb4 comments from people of the manosphere.
@kennyg1358 Жыл бұрын
Probably because they have no money or resources to share.
@luk11c4 Жыл бұрын
Probable because woman search for someone who will take care of them like for child, because they will want to check if they will be a good fater of your child 😮
@anantmalik Жыл бұрын
@@kennyg1358 Finally a man among an echo chamber of wannabe ladies. 😊
@anantmalik Жыл бұрын
Probably because girls do not want to love a boy they want to love money. 😊
@kitekat5606 2 ай бұрын
@@luk11c4 oh it's sounds so gross. World is crazy
@alicecavalcante4648 2 ай бұрын
6 years later I’m back here right after watching “Poor Things”
@salmarahman5849 4 жыл бұрын
Omg omg omg can we say Cat Valentine from Victorious falls into this trope.
@vitoriabarbosa2305 2 ай бұрын
!!!
@goodnighttheskye 7 жыл бұрын
This made me think about Rocky from The Rocky Horror Picture Show, who is the only male I can think of to fit this convention. He's created to be beautiful but naive, and he's simultaniously childlike and hugely sexual. However, the more I thought about the more I realised that he does gain his own autonomy and riles against the advances of his creator, only to learn about sex and love from someone (almost) as inexperienced as him. Still an interesting counterpoint though, especially since his lack of consent is almost always played for laughs.
@dreamingscarlettm5415 Жыл бұрын
I was about to say the same thing
@Huhu0137 Жыл бұрын
@@dreamingscarlettm5415 The one thing that makes it different than the usual born-yesterday trope, is how Rocky isn't meant to be a romantic fantasy, it's a blatant joke and mockery. I prefer to say this show is the best middle finger to the movies like the fifth element, there's nothing wonderful or poetic in this trope, it's just an absurd fever dream fabricated by messed-up people😂
@scotthammond3230 Жыл бұрын
Avatar. Game of Thrones. Many examples of naive leading males with much more experienced females. Maybe not as obvious and completely tropey sexual, but still.
@Carlos-ln8fd 7 жыл бұрын
You avoided mentioning how the trope implies sexual gratification for men without being involved in a relationship of any kind. It's saying that a man can be around a beautiful woman without any kind of courtship or friendship or anything. It's just a really ugly trope.
@m1ck3y63 4 жыл бұрын
Feels kinda like the sexualization of children. Just with sci-fi or circumstance attempting to make it look less like molestation. This references the intellectual deficient between most of the characters. Bravo Sir!
@eveecco 2 ай бұрын
Having this recommended to me after watching Poor Things feels- apt.
@cidevant002 7 жыл бұрын
I think Milo and the princess of the disney movie Atlantis have desconstructed this trope. He is a "modern man", she is a primitive princess that doesn´t know about our earthy costumes, but because Milo is in her world and not the other way around, they are in a more equal footing. Also, can we include Fifity Shades on this? Christian is literally the only man Ana is ever with, but we are supose to see him as just the best there is without allowing any comparison and everything about sex (and consent and their relationship itself) is always taught by him, not her.
@beethovensfidelio 4 ай бұрын
Ironic since in the direct to video sequel “Atlantis: Milo’s Return”, Kida goes to Milo’s world. Also, how are Milo and Kida on equal footing if Kida is relying on him to translate Atlantean because for some reason Kida and her people can’t read? White savior trope much, movie!
@beethovensfidelio 4 ай бұрын
But I agree with your second paragraph!
@edwin7834 Ай бұрын
interesting thing about the fifty shades thing is that its that exact trope but from a womans perspective and shes massivley into it (the creator and women watching it as well). so the trope isnt even that one sided
@beethovensfidelio Ай бұрын
@@edwin7834 Yes, but from Christian’s perspective, Anastasia Steele embodies the trope, which is why he preys on her. Why would a handsome rich billionaire go for a virginal plain Jane unless he wants some sort of control over her life? Basically, “Fifty Shades of Grey” is an incel fantasy for women. What if a loser woman manages to attract a gorgeous rich man? It’s similar to the stories of loser men attracting gorgeous women. Just because Anya “enjoys” it doesn’t change the fact that Christian Grey is abusive and violates her consent during BDSM, so no, it’s not averting the “Born Sexy Yesterday” trope because Christian still harms her. He’s not a nice guy who treats a virginal woman with respect and assurance. If anything, “Fifty Shades of Grey” teaches women that it’s romantic to have a partner who controls and owns you. 🤮
@edwin7834 Ай бұрын
@@beethovensfidelioYeah thats what im talking about. in the video it's mostly that men enjoy that trope, because of the societal norms, so natrually the stories are mostly written by men and enjoyed by men. Fifty shades on the other hand is written by a woman and mostly women fantasize about it and enjoy it. The one thing different which makes it into a "born sexy yesterday" women enjoy is that christian is rich. My point being, considering the circumstances the Born sexy yesterday isnt an entirely male fantasy and women seem to enjoy it aswell (because the genderroles society pushes on men and women are kind of the softer version of the trope)
@MichiruEll 7 жыл бұрын
I find that there's a bit of a parallel with the vampire trope. Now this trope is made for women, but there's something similarly creepy. It's men who are over 100 years old in love stories with teenage girls, "but it's okay cause he's sexy".
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
“Twilight” in a nutshell!
@cresar369 11 ай бұрын
the idea of 'innocence is sexy' is gross itself. being attracted to a girl because she's innocent is big red flag.
@gontsekganyago4079 4 ай бұрын
WTF
@tynj4173 4 ай бұрын
definitely not
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
@@tynj4173 How so?
@tynj4173 3 ай бұрын
@@beethovensfidelio How would it be? It means you’re getting a pure unweathered/untainted soul. If you’re perfectly fine with a girl that’s been ran through a million times over an innocent girl you’re a walking red flag.
@marvelousmissmysie4837 3 ай бұрын
@@tynj4173 it doesnt make your case better. It sounds a lot like "if she's inexperient, she cant compare me with anyone andwont know if i'm not a good partner". But, sure, whatever helps you sleep at night
@e.hhampsen4508 4 жыл бұрын
I realized this trope was a thing very young, and it's made it a hard for me to enjoy sci-fi movies with my dad because I'm an early bloomer but in no way naive. People tried to take advantage of me young and I knew what to do. I hope this trope dies so I can enjoy nonmisogynistic sci-fi in the future
@marcoglara2012 3 ай бұрын
It’s not just men fueling this. People are pretending This idea is just a male fantasy. It’s also a female fantasy. Romance novels mirror this trope.. Women openly state they want a confident experienced man, as reflected in their knight in shining armor, and swash buckler hero, fantasy novels. Statistics show this to be true as well . A small percentage of men have relations with the majority of women. Women actively seek those men and Ignore the less experienced men. The hypocrisy from women here is astounding.
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
@@marcoglara2012 Not to mention that there are older, experienced women who desire younger, inexperienced men. Granted it’s not as common as older men desiring younger women due to women generally being turned off by male inexperience, but the reverse does exist in real life. Also, just as there have been predatory guys going after teenage girls, there have been predatory women going after teenage boys (see Asia Argento, Mary Kay Letourneau, Debra Lafave, and Brigitte Macron).
@bradburyrobinson 7 жыл бұрын
"OK, just stand here and spin around with this leopard on your shoulders!"
@littlemissmello 6 жыл бұрын
Who remembers _The Island_ where BOTH main characters were born sexy yesterday, Ewan McGregor and Scarlett Johansson, both completely clueless of the world around them and together discovering and exploring. That was tender and sweet and didn't have that strange and frankly creepy power dynamic that the trope so often includes.
@rkay4998 3 ай бұрын
YES loved that movie 😭
@littlemissmello 3 ай бұрын
@@youreANnpc. ?
@littlemissmello 3 ай бұрын
@@youreANnpc. I am talking about the trope talked about in the above video. I am perfectly willing to have a civil and genuine conversation with you if you are also willing but I don't appreciate name calling and the like. So, to clarify my question, what did you mean? Are you questioning the existence of a power dynamic or a power imbalance?
@marvelousmissmysie4837 3 ай бұрын
@@littlemissmello it's not worth talking to him. He's obviously a troll. Let him talk with himself
@littlemissmello 3 ай бұрын
@@youreANnpc. between the born sexy yesterday character and the experienced leading character you mean? Within the trope this whole video is about? I am just asking for more clarity on your question since this video explains very clearly, which is why I am confused about your query.
@jezuzfreekjklol Жыл бұрын
This reminded me of the Silicon Valley episode - a creeper has made an AI lady bot who loves him but the guys hook her up to the internet and she figures out that he’s actually gross 😂
@ArcadeStunfisk 4 жыл бұрын
Just watched Ex Machina for the first time, and I was pleasantly surprised by how it utilises and then subverts this trope. ...and popped onto this video immediately after because I couldn't remember whether you brought it up or not!
@KatBlaque 7 жыл бұрын
This video is so good. This is another thing I've recognized, but didn't have a name for. Love this video.
@Tozzie50 7 жыл бұрын
Kat Blaque! :) huge fan, got here from the link you shared on facebook actually
@EVGMoviemaker 7 жыл бұрын
Good analysis! One of the weirdest things is that these women aren´t just unfamiliar with our world but immediately become wide-eyed and childlike; one could assume they know a lot about their own homeworld and could think "ah, at home we have things and here we have other things" but instead they go "OMG, they have things here!!!" And I'm not very familiar with these movies but it feels like the skills the women do naturally have (except for combat/plot-demanded skills) are there to be kind of quirky and to weird the man out?
@Bubba__Sawyer 3 ай бұрын
You said a whole lot there without making any point in the end. I'm surprised it's gotten so many likes.
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
@@Bubba__SawyerThe point she’s making is that there’s a difference between having childlike innocence because everything is new to you and simply being in a different environment. In “Crocodile Dundee”, Mick Dundee may be unfamiliar with New York City life, but he’s not a helpless ingenue because in his native Australia, Mick Dundee knows how to take care of himself.
@RoseThePhoenix 4 жыл бұрын
I remember once asking my first boyfriend what the heck the "Catholic schoolgirl" appeal was. He emphatically said, "Innocence!" as though it were obvious. I didn't get it. This explains a lot, but I still fall firmly in the "experience is way sexier" camp.
@jg36 4 ай бұрын
That’s because men and women are different. It’s to be expected that women would be more likely to desire an experienced partner, whereas men would be more likely to desire an inexperienced partner. After all, the man is the active partner and the woman is the receptive partner: the one is naturally inclined to lead, so to speak, and the other to follow. Are you interested in following anyone whom you know has less knowledge and experience than yourself? are you going to pay for lessons from somebody who could stand to learn more from you than you could from them? That doesn’t make much sense, does it?
@RoseThePhoenix 4 ай бұрын
@@jg36 I'm a middle aged married woman and I'm not "following" anyone and have never cared to. What a disgusting dismissal of the humanity and autonomy of women.
@jg36 3 ай бұрын
@@RoseThePhoenix It’s a generalization about the natures of men and women, but the “leading” and “following” bit was just an analogy. Either way, it’s only dismissive of women’s “humanity and autonomy” if you believe that following someone else’s lead is inherently degrading or even subhuman behavior: were medieval knights (or samurai, etc.) being degraded or dishonored when they faithfully served their lords? The world needs both leaders and followers, and any man or woman might need to take the lead in one situation or follow someone else’s lead in another; there’s no shame in that.
@marcoglara2012 3 ай бұрын
@@RoseThePhoenix It isn’t. People are pretending. This is just a male fantasy. It’s also a female fantasy.. Women openly state they want a confident experienced man. Statistics show this to be true as well . A small percentage of men have relations with the majority of women. Women actively seek those men and Ignore the less experienced men. The hypocrisy form women here is astounding.
@ThomasBomb45 3 ай бұрын
test
@FoxHartley 2 жыл бұрын
Can't stop thinking about that disgusting fucking sandwich
@sindiaperez959 7 жыл бұрын
You should tour and give seminars at every comic con
@SuperCvdm 7 жыл бұрын
I had an interesting thought about why this trope is less appealing to women: Women have more often real experience with raising a child(-ish person) (at least more than men statistically in an average Hollywood audience (or is this bullshit? please say if)), so maybe they tend to less romanticize and fetishize it.
@29jgirl92 7 жыл бұрын
That's what I was thinking too!
@beethovensfidelio 4 ай бұрын
Also, male virginity isn’t fetishized and idealized like female virginity is. Male virgins are perceived as emasculated losers.
@peterjacobs6541 4 жыл бұрын
I am surprised that you didn't go back to Pygmalion creating his own idealised woman. The fact that for most of history, men have tended to be the older and more powerful partner in a relationship has a lot to do with the prevalence of this trope. Now that women are producing and directing a lot more movies than in the past, it will be interesting to see how the tropes change.
@andrewsanford 2 жыл бұрын
Your videos have really opened my eyes to a lot of tropes that have been - for me - more subtle forms sexism, abuse, etc. I’m now seeing these everywhere in movies, video games, and media everywhere. Thanks so much for making these videos - they’ve helped me be more aware and a better person.
@AliceMarkley 7 жыл бұрын
Thank you for voicing this! I remember when I recognized this trope. It was in the same instance that I realized how much it was hurting how I, as a girl, viewed myself. Then I began to understand how much it was influencing the way men treat me. Because of my physical features, I apparently give off an initial impression that matches this trope. It causes men to treat me as naive or childlike, often in a sexual manner, and then become disinterested or outright disgusted when I turn out to be an actual human being with thoughts and opinions. It still confuses and hurts me and has fundamentally changed things about the way I dress and speak so as not to "confuse" men. I wrestle daily with finding the balance of being myself and avoiding these situations.
@mylesleggette7520 Жыл бұрын
I'm glad that you grew up enough to learn that social cues and presentation are important. It's too bad that you were so poorly guided in that process that you feel hurt and confused about such basic aspects of existing in human society.
@sophieruby5893 Жыл бұрын
@Myles Leggette She's talking about how she looked. I was the same way when I was young. I looked younger than what I was and therefore appeared like I was innocent and naive, which I wasn't. People make assumptions based solely on looks.
@lilovs9952 Жыл бұрын
@@mylesleggette7520 ?
@RinoaL 7 жыл бұрын
honestly i never noticed this being a theme that spanned accross different stories.
@grrrlriot 4 жыл бұрын
"Innocence is not sexy" needs to be said more.
@michaelbell2492 4 ай бұрын
This trope was central to the narrative in *Poor Things*. I'd love to see you revisit this analysis in the context of that film.
@bananamanchester4156 6 жыл бұрын
I wish The Shape of Water was released around the time you were making this video! I'd have loved to see your take on it. That movie also plays on a trope Lindsay Ellis coined as "my monster boyfriend". It's interesting to see the blend of the two tropes into one character- how he can act like a wild animal at times, but this behaviour is innocent due to his inexperience, and he is also capable of compassion. He is also physically unsexy so the woman's attraction to him is born from an emotional bond rather than a physical one.
@PutkisenSeta Жыл бұрын
Mediocre woman rapes a fish in a bathtub he can't leave without dying. I can't believe you gross fucks would lecture anyone about consent and power dynamics. I fucking love it. The real yous, oozing out from under the door. All the layers of bullshit stripped bare.
@gmenezesdea 7 жыл бұрын
I don't remember that trope in Star Trek TNG. Edit: In fact I just remembered an episode in which Born Sexy Yesterday is featured, but subverted and thus corrected. It's called "The Perfect Mate", and features an alien woman designed to perfectly adapt to her partner's every need, and who falls in love with Picard. Instead of taking advantage of her naivete, he talks to her about free will, independence, self-knowledge, and seeing her own qualities and intrinsic value instead of subjecting to men's will.
@tinydaemon8363 3 жыл бұрын
This video is what inspired me to write an entire research paper just based solely on this trope, you really brought this all to my attention. Up until seeing your video, I just thought it was a one-off thing from the Fifth Element, I had never seen any of the other movies you used as examples of this trope. Creeps me out how popular the whole thing is.
@daviesman1234 3 ай бұрын
coming back to this after poor things is a really interesting watch
@erodiadecuri 3 ай бұрын
Same
@johng7410 7 жыл бұрын
Another example might be William Shakespeare's The Tempest has Miranda - a Princess that has lived her entire life on an island with her father. She then falls head over heals in love with the first male she sees. It's not exactly the same as this trope, as she wasn't physically born yesterday - but she's naive to the world except for the island. In fact, Forbidden Planet is a sort of sci fi remake of The Tempest to begin with.
@GoodNameWasTaken4812 7 жыл бұрын
John Grayson That's what I was thinking -- this trope is way older than science fiction. You can probably credit Ovid for originating it in literature with Pygmalion & Galatea in Metamorphoses (borrowing from earlier sources but I don't think those are known.) I wonder if Miranda is a comment on the trope as I read her "Oh Brave New World!" Line as kind of "Oh, Ferdinand's cute but he's not the only one out there after all!"
@NickonPlanetRipple 7 жыл бұрын
It basically panders to narcissists who can't be bothered to put real effort into a relationship and think women should be happy to lower their standards enough to settle for them. There's so many angles that just make the trope worse and worse.
@conibal5045 7 жыл бұрын
this trope is basically what drove me away from binging random anime because it's literally all over the place there but shit there are so many characters that fit i hate it
@computertoucher 4 ай бұрын
I feel like it can’t be a coincidence that this was thrust in front of my eyes right as Poor Things got adapted to film.
@l.l.storrie3851 3 ай бұрын
Exactly! I just wrote a comment regarding this. “ Poor Things” is the most in-your-face example of the “Born Sexy Yesterday” trope to date!
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
@@l.l.storrie3851Even more than “Splash” and “The Fifth Element”? DAMN! 😂
@computertoucher 3 ай бұрын
@@l.l.storrie3851 Now I've seen the film version, I'm finding it interesting that it this trope is both much more and less applicable to the film adaptation than it is to the source novel. In the novel, the trope definitely applies much more explicitly, but it is also explicitly refuted; the film just presents it at face value but tries to soften the blow a bit. I'm not sure it is as effective as the novel, but it's entertaining enough, given its limitations. As a Scot, though, whatever Mark Ruffalo was doing was not an English accent. Deary me.
@myratec5429 4 ай бұрын
despite being 6 Years old this essey looks like a modern top fresh video. I love it.
@mc_va 4 ай бұрын
Ohh yeah, I remember seeing it years ago and now I went back here after knowing Emma Stone won an award For her role in "Poor Things". Same trope but it's supposed to be about female empowerment? Coming of age? I don't know, gross nonetheless
@courtneydurham8429 6 жыл бұрын
I would argue that Wonder Woman subverts this trope. The thing I remember while watching the movie was feeling relief at key moments in the film when I braced myself for a tropey moment or line of cheesy dialog that never came. Wonder Woman had never seen a real live penis before, but she wasn't ignorant of them, nor did she mount Chris Pratt in the bathing chambers the second she saw it. That moment on the boat when she practically confesses to lesbianism highlights her knowledge of carnal pleasure and lack of need for a man to satisfy her. In that moment, we understand that she has sexual experience, and she is less doe-eyed because of it. And while it is true that Wonder Woman's origin story follows this trope very much to the letter, I give props to the director and writer of the movie for circumventing it's cringiest elements.
@beethovensfidelio 3 ай бұрын
It’s ironic since the screenwriter Allen Heinberg admitted to “Entertainment Weekly” to being inspired by Disney’s “The Little Mermaid” and “Splash”, both of which play the “Born Sexy Yesterday” trope straight.
@WeddingxPeach97 5 жыл бұрын
6:16 Jesus Christ guy it’s sandwich why are you yelling
@focafodace8686 3 ай бұрын
WHATS 3 X 7?!!!!!!
@bubblebubbleblip 2 ай бұрын
I had to come back to this video after seeing Poor Things. I doubt you’ll see this comment, but I’d love to hear your thoughts on that film!
@user-nm6zg1nw6v 2 ай бұрын
Yes! The same happened to me
@Pizza653 2 жыл бұрын
17:09 he looks old enough to be her father, it's ridiculous
@user-cv3fu6xv5c 6 жыл бұрын
While browsing Netflix, I noticed the movie Orbiter 9 that was just released. “A woman who’s been alone on a spaceship her whole life...” falls in love with a man who, “upends her whole universe.” As a Netflix original, they paid someone to make this recently. Here I thought this concept was dying out
@kimclarkqueen 7 жыл бұрын
I love the framing of this trope in terms of men's needs for understanding and adulation--makes us think about objectification for the purposes of fulfilling the objectifier's desires. It seems obvious to make this kind of analysis but it's so rarely attempted and never with as much thought and clarity as on your channel. Thanks for another great video! X KC
@d.w.5894 11 ай бұрын
After watching this I introduced this term at my university to my professor three years ago. Now it is used at same university as a general trope. So Pop Culture Detective basically invented a common term for a trope. Very cool! Greetings from Berlin Germany :)
@bittsystar276 2 жыл бұрын
One of these days i want the girl in one of these stories to realize that this dude’s nothing special and leave to have her own adventures
@Yonkage 7 жыл бұрын
It seems this is mostly due to the trope that "every woman in media must be sexy". Even the ones that are considered "ugly" are actually beautiful women that are merely dressed awkwardly, have bad hair, and wear dorky glasses; their transformation into the Homecoming Queen is as simple as getting contacts, getting their hair done, putting on makeup, and wearing a nice dress. When you start adding sci-fi into the mix, it becomes all to easy to handwave some kind of idealistic "female perfection" where she has been engineered to look that way. When mentioning sci-fi and anime, I feel it's important to mention Rei from Neon Genesis Evangelion. Despite being deliberately designed as an inversion of this trope, meant to be disgusting instead of sexy (she's literally a physical clone of the protagonist's mother), she became a poster-girl for it. Many viewers find her attractive and "pair" her with the protagonist, which is deliberately missing the point.
@chokichocat3083 5 жыл бұрын
Anime has this trope ALOT.
@lillithb1661 4 жыл бұрын
God I feel so bad for all the actresses in these scenes.