Abduction As Romance

Рет қаралды 2,210,065

6 жыл бұрын

[[ Content warning: movies scenes containing domestic abuse ]]
Help me make more videos! / popdetective
Abduction as Romance is a media trope where a man kidnaps or imprisons a woman and she eventually falls in love with him. Abduction as Romance is one of a series of popular media tropes where violence against women and abusive male behavior is presented as necessary, exciting, or romantic.
PATREON
If you’d like to see more long-form video essays focusing on the intersections of entertainment and masculinity, please help fund this series on Patreon:
/ popdetective
PAYPAL
If you'd rather make a one-time donation you can do that via PayPal:
www.paypal.me/popdetective
TEXT TRANSCRIPT
popculturedetective.agency/201...
COMMENTS
All KZfaq comments are held for approval due to the harassment of this channel. If you'd like to participate in constructive online conversations about this video, please share it on your social media networks.
FAIR USE
All multimedia clips included in this video constitute a 'fair use' of any copyrighted material as provided for in Section 107 of U.S. Copyright law, which allows for criticism, comment and scholarship. Learn more about fair use with this awesome app by New Media Rights! newmediarights.org/fairuse
CREDITS
Writer/Producer: Jonathan McIntosh
Motion Graphics: Jonathan McIntosh
Logo Design: Justin McIntosh
Outro music: Jonathan Mann
/ jonathanmann
Help us caption and translate this video!
amara.org/v/jyaJ/

Пікірлер: 1 800

@nadjak3410 4 жыл бұрын

"help me! Call the police!" "God they must be so deeply in love." 🙄😶

@UPRailRoad-xg8cb 9 ай бұрын

Sums up the whole trope in one scene

@morganqorishchi8181 8 ай бұрын

I feel like a big part of the reason that kind of exchange never made sense to me is because my parents, while imperfect people with some flaws in their relationship, were both super clear that if anyone is trying to get away from someone else, there's a good reason why and you should believe the fleeing party. My mom is a psychologist and explained to me very early on that people have a right to not want someone to touch them or grab them etc., so when I see that snippet, I don't laugh and go, "oh, old movies!", I go, "CALL THE POLICE IMMEDIATELY!" and I think that's a testament to how much parenting can do to help combat super toxic tropes. We may not be able to fix media but we can teach our kids to know better.

@Bee-qd7ok 4 ай бұрын

That clip actually filled me with dread and anxiety. It's not romantic at all!

@Panda_Gibs 2 ай бұрын

Here's a modernist perspective problem. We think anything old is more literal. But in that clip, they were calling out the "abuse as love" trope. It turns out being sarcastic is not a modern invention. Who knew?

@DMAGAEscober 2 ай бұрын

Not gonna lie that was kinda funny 😆 😂

@nytheprincess 6 жыл бұрын

When my bf saw passengers with me he said "I was hoping she would kill him. That would have been a much better ending."

@Sharkwhisperer Жыл бұрын

What is wrong with forgiving someone?

@handlesarestupid154 Жыл бұрын

@@Sharkwhisperer yeah, just forgive someone for completely ruining your life, sure.

@brandonnguyen6718 Жыл бұрын

I'd actually prefer if Aurora didn't save him and rather let him die, then when she was all alone, be pushed to the same thing that Jim had done.

@Itskahuna Жыл бұрын

@@handlesarestupid154 My mother had Munchausen Syndrome and killed three of my siblings (my oldest sister and I survived) I would venture to say that this ruined any chance I had at a "normal" or "undamaged" life. Thats not to say I have not worked to overcome the barriers this put forth, as I have, but they existed none-the-less. That being said, the forgiveness I have found for her has led to far more contribution to my own growth an success than any disdain I ever held.

@The_Sleepiest_Socialist Жыл бұрын

@@Sharkwhisperer it’s more fun for guys when fictional characters don’t.

@UltimateKyuubiFox 6 жыл бұрын

The tragedy of Passengers is that the original script is actually a psychological thriller. They literally re-structured the script after buying it. The truth about Chris Pratt’s character was supposed to be a third-act plot twist that shows the inciting incident in a flashback, in a way that shifts the way you perceive the earlier scenes in the film. Meaning we would’ve been seeing the story through JLaw’s perspective. Somewhere along the line, an idiot thought that should be changed so it could be marketed as a romance. You know. To make it bad. Edit: You can actually read the original script online.

@CreoTan 4 жыл бұрын

The original premise as a thriller sounds so _cool_ ... like, a movie that seems like a silly romcom, but there's always something just a little off about it, something that the audience and main character brush off as quirky until it's revealed how twisted the situation really is....we were robbed of a great movie

@kitsune630 Жыл бұрын

Id love to read it! Ill definitely go find it sometime

@xxshinypinkxx 10 ай бұрын

But it could also be a good romance without Jim waking her up.

@franciscoancer2618 9 ай бұрын

@@xxshinypinkxx Like if it really was an actual malfunction instead of Jim waking her up.

@PanTrimtab 9 ай бұрын

I've always thought this would be a great recut opportunity, for a film student or something.

@Gargess 6 жыл бұрын

I think Passengers would have made an excellent horror film if it was filmed from the woman's perspective. That the audience only learns of her abduction when she does and in the end the man should have died (spoiler alert, he's revived at the last possible moment). With his death that dooms this battered woman to a life of loneliness and she's framed looking at the pods, faced with the same horrifying decision.

@wandam198 Жыл бұрын

THAT SOUNDS AMAZING OMGG

@majabajric2310 10 ай бұрын

Nice 👌

@makhnothecossack4948 8 ай бұрын

Though the end kinda explains and justifies why the man did what he did, showing that it wasn't out of being evil or such, it was about almost going insane because of involuntary loneliness.

@billbill6094 7 ай бұрын

This is very literally what the original script was, down to "finding out when she does." The OG is online and it's literally supposed to be horror.

@AniTube-ds8uz 6 ай бұрын

@@makhnothecossack4948I think intentionally shortening someone’s lifespan because your lonely is “evil”, at least to me. Also, what if she never hung with him ever or even killed herself, is he justified if he kept opening other pods just because he’s lonely??

@Supernaturlisch 6 жыл бұрын

Nerdwriter1 suggested "Passengers" would have been much better if it had been from Aurora's perspective. I wholeheartedly agree.

@sarahthomas8670 2 ай бұрын

Definitely

@jellynjelo Ай бұрын

that would be a great horror story

@OddNiffer 6 жыл бұрын

"Abusive men don't change overnight...especially after a lifetime of being a dick." So true! And such a great line!

@mardasman428 6 жыл бұрын

Jennifer Odd Abusive people in general

@whowhatwhydoyouknow Жыл бұрын

I was with an abusive female, I thought I was saving her just like how is so often described in abusive relationships. Females romanticize the fantasy of both being saved by the man and also being the feminine character that alone can save him. The traits are found all over in both genders.

@thersten Жыл бұрын

@@whowhatwhydoyouknow true. Btw, I've always wondered how a man could be abused by a woman. Forgive my ignorance but i don't understand why a man wouldn't just leave an abusive female.

@whowhatwhydoyouknow Жыл бұрын

@@thersten Cause he thinks he needs to save her.

@foolsplatinum Жыл бұрын

@@whowhatwhydoyouknow r/MenAndFemales

@blakeftpful 6 жыл бұрын

Misery by Stephen King swapped the genders and called it a horror. Does that tell you something?

@OsirusHandle Жыл бұрын

Its flipped precisely in Terminator 2, though there is a man-bot to back her up.

@loserbutch0 Жыл бұрын

Misery is already a horror film, plus there isnt many films like Misery when its the woman in power. Yet there are hundreds of the opposite.

@melp.6562 Жыл бұрын

I don’t recall the writer falling in love with Katy Bates character. Did he?

@xXAcidBathXx Жыл бұрын

it’s already is a horror? It’s horrifying either way?

@hunter423 Жыл бұрын

@@melp.6562 Neither Stephen King or Carl Reiner ever portray her as anything but crazy, and that's part of why the story works. There's definitely things to be said about how it's an unattractive female character abducting a man, as well as stereotypes about loners/outcasts, but I don't think Misery can directly be connected to the abduction trope.

@badreality2 5 жыл бұрын

To be fair, in Megamind, he doesn't fall for the girl when she is held captive. He even releases her freely, because she isn't his intended target. He's blackmailing the superhero.

@eliasfrp Жыл бұрын

She also doesn't fall for him when she's abducted. Still imperfect, but it's what we get. Cinema Therapy has a cool episode about it.

@joseanurkkalainen2832 Жыл бұрын

+ she's never afraid of him and he never even tries to actually scare/hurt her, like she isn't weak or powerless against him

@TheDarkroomDude Жыл бұрын

They were just using megamind to illustrate that kidnapping someone was a villainous act

@roxanne_ Жыл бұрын

@@TheDarkroomDudeinteresting how the villain is considered bad for kidnapping the girl, but when the hero does it’s ok.

@ceinwenchandler4716 Жыл бұрын

@@joseanurkkalainen2832 Yeah, she has a hilarious amount of control in that scene. He's already got it bad for her and wouldn't actually hurt her and she knows it, so she can drive him INSANE by refusing to act scared in the least. If anything, it reminds me of a guy in grade school teasing a girl because he likes her, then getting frustrated when she's mature enough to just ignore him. Only exaggerated for comdic effect. And it helps set up Titan as the villain too! Because when HE does almost exactly the same thing, she's terrified! The scene where he "saves" her just made me viscerally hate him, and when Roxanne is still clearly frightened of him in later scenes, it makes you realize just how dangerous this guy is, because she didn't take Megamind's intimidation seriously at all.

@HiopX 6 жыл бұрын

I'm more interested a the horror version of passengers then the actual film

@tinaregine3006 6 жыл бұрын

shit you really brought shrek in there, now i really have to re-evaluate every movie ive ever seen

@LimeyLassen 6 жыл бұрын

I was so ready to leap in and defend Shrek as a subversion of the trope like it is about everything, but thinking about it no it's just played straight.

@d_alistair-years Жыл бұрын

Shrek’s interesting in this case because it’s a romance formed from a rescuing of a woman from a place her borderline abusive parents put her because they were ashamed of her that’s also openly a bribe for a forced marriage to an abusive king, who couldn’t be bothered to kidnap her because of his reputation 😵‍💫

@ollieno971 6 ай бұрын

@@d_alistair-years yes but shrek doesn’t know that they are abusive

@RED-my9hl 10 күн бұрын

@ollieno971 so? he knows he's freeing her from being trapped in a castle with a dragon

@debbiejoyable 4 жыл бұрын

the recent "365 days" movie is the embodiment of what was spoken of in this video.

@markussokk2847 5 ай бұрын

So true. I hated them for making abduction seem "romantic" and "sensual". It's disgusting and normalises such criminal behaviour.

@entertain7us148 3 жыл бұрын

its so disturbing how violence against women has been so persistently romanticised. these are images which real women suffer every day. men forcing women to the ground, gagging them, pinning their arms to their sides, pulling them, up to the extreme behaviours of beating, kidnapping, holding at gunpoint, and killing - it's so hard to see them in a romantic/comedic context when you've seen what those behaviours actually look like.

@Dimension2364 Жыл бұрын

What you said is so incredibly true. As a little girl I got so brainwashed by such films that I was instinctively searching for justification when I saw such behavior in real life. I could not have helped that woman back then. But my reaction and my thoughts still haunt me till today.

@quasalor1480 10 ай бұрын

I find it so incredibly difficult to watch.

@valibaimoukhametov6795 8 ай бұрын

Its okay because Chris Pratt is handsome. If he was ugly it would have been a horror movie.

@aussieseal9979 8 ай бұрын

@@valibaimoukhametov6795missed the point

@lopave6 7 ай бұрын

Nah not true

@goodzillo 6 жыл бұрын

It was always so disheartening to see women in these situations react with very justified horror, fear, anger, etc to being kidnapped, abused, isolated or sexually assaulted, only for that to melt away as the plot forces her to fall in love with someone she should, and up to that point, did, hate.

@eileensnow6153 6 ай бұрын

Don’t forget all the gaslighting too! The gradual conclusion that we as the audience are told to draw: she was silly for having resisted so much in the first place. Can’t she see what a good guy he is?

@ryanrobotham7696 6 жыл бұрын

What's scary about Passengers is that this was initially going to explore this trope, but it was ultimately changed because of FOCUS GROUPS! A large group of people so conditioned to a problematic trope, that they didn't care so long as Chris Pratt and Jennifer Lawrence got together.

@AgTheFreeborn 8 ай бұрын

how old were the people they had in the focus groups yeesh

@seanmurphy3430 6 жыл бұрын

This really is a confluence of, like, every terrible romance trope. The assumption that two opposite-gendered characters in close proximity MUST get together by the end, no matter how unhealthy the dynamic, the use of romance as a narrative reward for one character at the expense of the other, the set-up giving the male character disproportionate power in the relationship - and that power imbalance never really being addressed - and, of course, the portrayal of really creepy, abusive behavior by men as "romantic".

@petiteange08 Жыл бұрын

When I was younger, I talked about rape culture and problematic relationships framed as romance with my dad. He said that relationships are complex which is why explicit consent is not necessary, that you should just read the mood and context. That you shouldn't care about a woman saying no because she only does it since she has to be modest, that's why a man has to be insistent and pushy, so they can have sex without her having to say ask or say yes. That was a very chilling moment for me (and he clearly missed the point of everything I said about rape culture).

@RandomSwiftie13 Жыл бұрын

Well at least you are better than your father in terms of the topic of consent.

@megkrish7568 Жыл бұрын

Das fucked up, but yea this kind of mentality is very common in older generations. They frame it as "showing a woman the way" or sth. I told my mom that if a guy ever hit me or hurt me physically(other than accidentally) I would dump him that very moment. And would u believe it she was shocked, she's like "over one single incident?" Like I was somehow being unfair😶

@gemh89 7 ай бұрын

My ex: "But women love that"

@gangstaberry2496 4 ай бұрын

Because of the perception of women's enjoyment of sex as humiliating and degrading (since women are more "vulnerable" than men), it has been, unfortunately, the experience of a lot of women (especially older) who first have sex to feel ashamed about it It's like a feedback loop... Even men with good intentions feel like they should "read the mood", since the woman might actually enjoy it but feel too ashamed to ask for it (according to this perception) That's the theory anyway... But all of this, as you said, is perpetuated by rape culture, and it's wonderful to see younger women are finally standing up for their autonomy

@tracygalicia7342 6 жыл бұрын

Kidnapper: "I'm not gonna rape you" Victim: "I love you" Audience: "wow he's a good guy"

@toomuchinformation 6 жыл бұрын

Tracy Galicia Yep, the bar is set so low it's barely off the ground.

@ExtraVictory Жыл бұрын

I mean credit where credit is due lmfao

@jennie5912 8 ай бұрын

@@ExtraVictorycredit for being a decent human being…?

@ExtraVictory 8 ай бұрын

@@jennie5912 a kidnapper who has already abducted a woman and violated her bodily autonomy using force, if he then doesn't rape her that's a better outcome than expected and definitely worth some credit lmao

@hellolithy 8 ай бұрын

@@ExtraVictory That's like putting a penny in your pocket and expecting the number in the scale to change. Like, sure, it may add to your weight, but not enough to matter.

@uchster9 6 жыл бұрын

when you realise how deep rooted this is in our everyday society, its even scarier.

@GritsnBeans 6 жыл бұрын

Michael Obiabumuo It's not scary, just sad.

@RiverOfWetness468 6 жыл бұрын

If you ask ask anyone who's been a victim of this trope manifesting itself in real life, I bet they'd say it's pretty damn scary.

@alisonlaett9625 6 жыл бұрын

The fact that a lot of time I never notice this stuff before watching his videos just makes me realize what a blindfolded life I've been living.

@thesurvivorssanctuary6561 6 жыл бұрын

GritsnBeans It's scary for women, 😱

@oskarkuelz2706 6 жыл бұрын

I think it's sad and scary.

@Meme-go9ts 5 жыл бұрын

“Audiences are treated to scene after scene fetishizing the domination and disempowerment of women. If she tries to turn the tables on her abductor, he remains unfazed and her attempts to intimidate him don’t work. In some cases, when he reasserts his control by disarming her, it’s framed as an act of seduction.” THIS IS 100% ACCURATE!! Thank you for putting into words what I first perceived when I was a child, as I grew up watching movies, series and so on that were like those. The subject of this video is incredibly important.

@eliasfrp Жыл бұрын

This trope is very well subverted in the first season of Daredevil. I could explain, but it's worth a watch if you haven't already.

@megkrish7568 Жыл бұрын

@@eliasfrp Could u? (I saw it a while ago I don't remember which instance you're talking about😅)

@eliasfrp Жыл бұрын

@@megkrish7568 Alright. Obviously, SPOILERS ahead. Karen is kidnapped by Weasley (right-hand man and friend of Fisk, the main villain) for having met with Fisk's mother and generally for researching Fisk and his past. He puts her in a room, holds at gunpoint. Tries to make her convince the others to drop their investigations and antagonism towards Fisk. In a moment of distraction, she grabs the gun and points it at him. He remains calm, telling her that obviously the gun isn't loaded, as he would never do such a mistake (remaining calm despite everything was kinda his trademark). In response to that she decided to try it out. On his body. Several times. Successfully. It was a nice subversion because despite never losing his composure he died as a result of arrogance, underestimating her, and a careless mistake.

@megkrish7568 Жыл бұрын

@@eliasfrp Oh yea I remember that scene but didn't think of it that way. Thank you😁

@gerardjagroo 6 ай бұрын

@@eliasfrpWhat movie is this from

@user-hf4qy3mt6z 6 жыл бұрын

OOH! Nerdwriter1 made this a video about Passengers as well. His video was about how he edited the movie to start with Aurora's POV so the tone of the film shifted into more of a psychological thriller. It looked much less of a love story and when we see Jim for the first time as we follow the story from her perspective, he seems so creepy and we're already suspecting him to be the bad guy.

@yorgosathanasiadis5335 6 жыл бұрын

I think Woody Allen deserves his own dedicated video on how he views women.

@PopCultureDetective 6 жыл бұрын

Yeaaaah. I dread the thought of watching all of his movies though. Yikes!

@Jazzisa311 6 жыл бұрын

Pleeeeeaaaaase do it anyway. I'd watch the shit out of that. Seriously, I find him so repulsive, but I just can't put my finger on what exactly it is that makes me feel thát uneasy.... More than other movies from that era. I mean, I wasn't even all that bothered with Polanski...

@nm541 6 жыл бұрын

Pop Culture Detective if you do, please watch em online bc that dude does not deserve anyone's dollars

@beckyginger3432 6 жыл бұрын

Please do It! So we don't have to

@ToyKnives 6 жыл бұрын

So glad you’re talking about Passengers. I thought the trauma Jennifer Lawrence was put through was horrifying, but the guy I saw the movie with didn’t see any problem with Chris Pratt’s actions at all.

@zedek_ 6 жыл бұрын

That is incredibly fucking creepy

@srky4346 6 жыл бұрын

ToyKnives I too thought Pratt’s actions in the movie were selfish and wrong.

@iihh517 6 жыл бұрын

The movie flopped for a reason. From my understanding, I think there was a division of opinion on how to deliver the film (is it a tragedy or a horror?)

@thesurvivorssanctuary6561 6 жыл бұрын

Makes sense, you'd be surprised how many decent people (men especially) can be complete narcissistic assholes! We all have our empathy blind spots, but watch out when your in another person's empathy blind spot! They'll be a jerk to you, and then blame you for it! Eh, basically my long winded way of saying, fuck that guy! If he ignores the suffering of a character you resonate with, then that bodes trouble down the road, 😾

@ellipszilonq 6 жыл бұрын

I watched the movie with a woman who's been abused for ten years. She didn't see it as anything disturbing either which terrifies me, because if abuse survivors can't see what really is happening, who can?

@JacyndaMinor 2 жыл бұрын

“It’s not possible to fix violent men by loving them in exactly the right way.” Oof. I spent my late teens and the entirety of my twenties suffering for not knowing this.

@rh8884 10 ай бұрын

Preach 🥲

@da3musceteers 8 ай бұрын

Mm. This world is hell

@gangstaberry2496 4 ай бұрын

At least you eventually grew out of it

@smaointewildchild 6 жыл бұрын

I started crying halfway through, because you are spot on. I was in a relationship with a person like that (only difference was that he was mostly abusive in an emotional way) and I didn't get out until I was severely traumatised because I had this romantic, Hollywood-infused view of "I'm the special one to fix him". A brilliant essay, as always. And an important one.

@azrani2023 Жыл бұрын

Even though I'm lucky enough never to have experienced anything like this, it was almost impossible for me to watch the essay. It made me speechless and incredibly angry. It is very important that we start talking about that kind of stuff. I am glad you got out of that abusive relationship and wish you all the best for your current life

@pfffttt9563 Жыл бұрын

I am sorry to hear of that

@artemismeow 6 жыл бұрын

Dude bros "but there's no rape culture" Literally all media: rapey plots! X(

@aviendha1154 6 жыл бұрын

artemismeow Preach. Yet we’re the crazy ones for trying to point it out?

@moomoocachoo9025 6 жыл бұрын

I think that's why I'm understanding when some men don't know how to act now, because society has taught us that bad behaviour is normal. It doesn't help that a lot of romance novels, written by women for women, have the same sort of plots. It's easy to say that this is all fantasy, but if it's all that we're seeing in entertainment then is it any wonder why we are the way we are?

@Torthrodhel 6 жыл бұрын

It's almost like it's become so normalized that it's completely invisible to the people who deep down want to go through with it.

@ZacharyDBrooks 6 жыл бұрын

Did you know John Wayne humiliates and beats Maureen O'Hara into loving him in not one but two movies? In the Quiet Man (1952) he drags his uppity wife through the streets by her collar and kicks her while an elderly woman hands him a stick to beat her with. In McLintock! (1963) he hunts down his fleeing (uppity) wife, who is stripped to her undergarments and spanked, to the delight of townsfolk. His farmhand hands him a shovel to beat her with. There is actually another scene in that movie where the farmhand beats Wayne's daughter into loving him in the same manner. It's a pretty problematic trope to show up so many times in one actor's movies!

@da3musceteers 8 ай бұрын

And pwople wonder why everyone is depressed and suicidal

@friendbotlu3920 6 жыл бұрын

It’s funny. I remember creating a story in high school with a stereotypical “bad boy” character who basically abducted the female protagonist, and then I had a revelation some time later (after being stalked for a brief period myself) how terrifying and truly absurd such “romances” are. Abduction and stalking are the epitome of anti-romantic, and it’s disheartening how normalized they are and influential it is, even on girls.

@Tay-wj9et 2 жыл бұрын

I don't see why they couldn't have *actually* had Aurora wake up by accident, without the main character's intervention. Maybe he could've been trapped alone for a year or more, struggling to cope with his fate, maybe even contemplating ending things, but then she woke up all of a sudden, and he had to deal with the best thing that ever happened to him also being the worst thing to happen to her. Then he could've helped her adjust to her new reality, they could've grown closer, maybe eventually having kids who would one day watch over the rest of the sleeping passengers, making sure none of them suffered the same fate as their parents. It still would've been morally ambiguous (having kids in that situation dooms them to the same isolation depending on the timeframe) without being quite the same level of horror movie. Or they could've even spent a decade or more figuring out how to fix their pods, going back to sleep together, and woke up with the rest when they were supposed to, a decade older than they were before.

@ruthiewitter569 9 ай бұрын

Holy crow that would have been an incredible storyline!! I would have loved that. It brings some really thought provoking and important themes.

@matthewglenguir7204 8 ай бұрын

That sounds so much better

@zillva 8 ай бұрын

Isn't that exactly what happened though? He was alone for a year, and it was explicitly shown as an act of desperation that doomed her to isolation and death alone. Now, I don't think they should've turned into lovers at the end, because that kinda undermines everything that happened previously, but they could likely end up accepting that they can't change what happened or whatever, and simply interacting to stop eachither from going insane

@jngrey 8 ай бұрын

@@zillvano because in that case he wouldn’t be the one waking her up. In the movie, he was the one waking her up therefore it was his decision and his fault. If it would have been an accident, he wouldn’t be the one to blame and her falling in love with him wouldn’t be problematic.

@baintreachas 7 ай бұрын

ohhh what if whatever thing made her wake up could also cause some other people to wake up (like she wakes up a year after him, but the whatever is failing at an increased rate... it's sci fi, figure it out) and they have to decide to fix the error or not, and they disagree. exact same moral dilemma but it doesn't compromise the romance and the guy doesn't ever actually HAVE to do it

@katejessener 6 жыл бұрын

Wait, so they didn't wake up at the same time in passengers? The trope could have been subverted SO easily by having the malfunction waking them both up. If they still really, really wanted to dedicate a portion of the film to J Laws character being angry- just have her think that he woke her up even if he didn't. God, and the added layer that he became obsessed with a woman he had never spoken to, or had any interaction with? Thank god I didn't spend money going to that movie.

@GreenSnapShot 6 жыл бұрын

amazingpm3 yep, the movie spends a while making you like Chris Pratt’s character and then he goes ahead and does that and you are expected to like him still, I nearly had to leave because the premise was so bloody ridiculous, even worse (spoilers) she if offered a chance to return to sleep and wake up when she is supposed to but she declines to stay with him forever 🙄

@booktales1687 6 жыл бұрын

amazingpm3 they could've easily fixed the glaring problem, like you pointed out, but instead they fall into that trope anyway. It's honestly pretty sad.

@plantmom6488 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's a better rewrite honestly.

@JosephQuimsonNuevaSchool 6 жыл бұрын

the weird thing about passengers was that there were explicit references to horror movies like the shining, which suggests that originally it was intentionally supposed to be a horror?

@hellobeauworld 6 жыл бұрын

That's indeed very creepy. Nerdwriter made a short video with the same idea: the premise suits better for a horror movie: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fdGjq9he3su7k4k.html

@imbara33 6 жыл бұрын

I found the comment on Stockholm syndrome quite mind-blowing and pertinent that was well thought man

@Ash-yh5oy 6 жыл бұрын

I was actually kind of bothered by that. I'm not sure I like the idea of a person being brainwashed or suffering stockholm syndrome is weak in some way.

@stevenhanley5505 6 жыл бұрын

The Beauty and the Beast discourse is interesting. People often claim that Belle has Stockholm Syndrome because she ends up falling for her captor, but she doesn't actually display any of the supposed symptoms. She never rewards his bad behaviour, and over time she forces him to change and not the other way around. The film is a better example of Abduction as Romance than Stockholm Syndrome. I do still love the film though, even if it's part of a problematic media trope.

@minhanhnguyen2213 6 жыл бұрын

Recently i watch a video of Lindsay Ellis (Nostalgic chick) and found out Stockholm Syndrome is not even a thing, it doesn't appear in the DMS, scientists do not approve it. People've been doing research about it and they even agree that it doesn't deserve a place in DMS clinically. So we can say that, "stockholm syndrome" is just another buzzword.

@yourbuttcrack 6 жыл бұрын

I took the comment in the video not as 'people with stockholm syndrome are weak or at fault' but as 'the discussion around that topic tends to frame them as at fault because the syndrome itself focuses on the victim and their responses'. So hopefully that's what that meant.

@ThePickleUpYourNose 6 жыл бұрын

It's not, but by shifting the blame from the man onto the otherwise strong woman for falling in 'love' with him it undermines the females character within the writing. Like, that's what the film is TRYING to do and how the writers want you to view it, not that a person who has stockholm syndrome is weak.

@maxroyston5342 6 жыл бұрын

Jesus Christ, the sheer number of clips. This is like... Every movie. Even genuinely good ones like Shrek or Stardust.

@Bubba__Sawyer 4 ай бұрын

Keep in mind that most of these clips were taken completely out of context.

@lillithb1661 4 жыл бұрын

13:05 Every fictional abusive dad ever. “BuT iT mAdE yOu StRoNgEr”

@allykat5899 6 жыл бұрын

It's much more Stockholm-esh then romantic in fact it's down right creepy. It also tells men that it's okay to victimize and or brutalize women for there own personal pleasure with no respect for the woman as an Independent party worthy of respect and to be treated with decency as an equal to them. Which is possibly the most egregious part of it all

@spacecat6022 6 жыл бұрын

Indeed, many think the women like to be treated that way because Hollywood said so.

@viktorbodnar7738 6 жыл бұрын

This is worse, because these movies suggest that the victims will develop genuine romantic feeling toward their abusers which holds even after the fact they got abused. Stockholm syndrome is forming a bond with the captor and rationalising their bahaviour as a survival tactic.

@izzy1221 6 жыл бұрын

Wow. This is unbelievably creepy and disgusting. Just because lazy writers need an easy out....they end up romanticizing abuse.

@TheYetixOUTx 6 жыл бұрын

i thought this movie was really cool and was never on jims side my skin crawling. the ending seemed pretty shoe horn tho

@84DouchkaLilichka 6 жыл бұрын

Isagail i don’t think it is only about laziness... this is a deeply rooted fantasy linked to the internalization of male domination

@Spatzleei 6 жыл бұрын

It's even worse than being lazy. I guess a lot of those screenwriters are abusive white men who take advantage of their position to spread fucked up representations of themselves as perfectly normal, lovable, acceptable. Like women have to settle for mediocrity and abuse. "Oh but we're nice in the end" hell nope, abusers are not nice. Or "I've been abused in the past please understand me" so have I and a lot of women (yeah also men I know but I'm talking about a general tendency here) and we don't end up abusing each and everyone of our partners (some do thought, it can get quite ugly), go see a shrink until you've really worked on your issues and in the meantime do a favor to mankind and DON'T HAVE A PARTNER, DON'T REPRODUCE. God this video made me so angry (in a good way)

@TheLithp 6 жыл бұрын

Basically every time I watch one of these videos, I'm flabbergasted by what's apparently considered normal by mainstream cinema.

@ChiefVizier 6 жыл бұрын

Isagail yeah its super lazy. Instead trying to have two unlikely people have the same goal, just have one forced in it.

@tosinakin2508 Жыл бұрын

Reminds me of the period of time in history where there was no written distinction between rape/abduction and marriage. Some areas still force women into marriage via abduction. Utterly terrifying.

@juliagoetia 7 ай бұрын

Yeah I was recently researching that. It's actually still extremely prevalent in the modern world as well as throughout history. Women being treated as objects to be owned, traded, stolen and used. It's deeply horrifying thinking about how many women have lived and still are living their whole lives as little more than slaves. Even in so called "developed" nations.

@Badficwriter 7 ай бұрын

Its strange that ancient Greece, which seemed to normalize rape, actually has some acknowledgement of this, with the Homeric hymn to Demeter poem speaking of Persephone's misery and how Hades forced seeds into her mouth. The Romans recontexualized it as a metaphor for marriage and emphasized Proserpine's delight in her new power as a Queen and somehow old Pluto looks like a youth. Grossly, many modern writers have rewritten this as an against-the-odds love story.

@TrueYellowDart 6 жыл бұрын

Princess Bride has an element of this, too. As much as they had already established a loving relationship in the very beginning of the film, Westley still "kidnaps" Buttercup from her previous abductor. He lets her believe she is still in danger and even threatens to strike her. He even drags out her grief by talking about how "Dread Pirate Roberts killed the farmboy", all so that he can see some "proof" that she truly mourned for him. I love Princess Bride but Westley is really being awful during that short period of the film.

@rh8884 10 ай бұрын

Such a good example! It's also interesting to discuss too in the context of him being her servant/worker earlier in the film and her withholding affection despite gradually falling in love with him. Such a dramatic role reversal later, with him going full cruelty mode for a while. In addition to using this trope to spice things up, I suppose it's to keep the audience in the dark re: The Man in Black's identity. But knowing it's Wesley, it's kind of inexplicable why he'd ever threaten violence toward his "true love."

@MylesKillis 4 ай бұрын

He only did that because he thought she moved on quickly and didn’t love him. He was seeing if she still loved him.

@TrueYellowDart 4 ай бұрын

@@MylesKillis …and? That doesn’t justify any of his actions in those scenes. He could have revealed himself and /asked/ her. She would have melted with happiness and joy. Instead he shows he didn’t trust her and therefore she has to “prove” that he mourned/loved him. Again, one of my fave films but that’s a total dick move on Westley’s part.

@thomaskilmer 6 жыл бұрын

I grew up with an abusive father, who abused my mother as his primary target until she divorced him (and I ended up in split custody), at which point I became his primary target. And it wasn't until after I in turn manage to escape him that I began to recognize these scenes as the horrors they are. Before then these scenes all seemed like perfectly reasonable things to do or perfectly romantic things. It was rather horrifying to finally realize what I've been overlooking as normal the entire time. But the most horrifying part was when I realized that many movies like this? Had been favorites of my father's. Many of which he insisted we watch together many times, commenting positively during the movie on just these scenes. That scene from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon in particular was difficult to watch, because the movie was a favorite of my father's and he was deeply enamored with the 'romance' those two characters' relationship. These movies don't just serve to inculcate these attitudes in potential abusers, or normalize them in the rest of society, or damage victims' ability to recognize abusive situations. They are also sought out by active abusers as a way of seeking validation for their violence. As a way of proving to themselves and those around them "this is romantic, *I* am romantic". And if that doesn't send a chill up your spine I don't know what will.

@thomaskilmer 6 жыл бұрын

Actually I also remember watching V for Vendetta for the first time with my mother, back when I was still stuck in split custody. And while my mom was horrified by what happened, I ... didn't see what the problem was. It wasn't until years later that I re-watched and, well, was horrified beyond belief. I've talked about it with my mother since, and yeah, she said it was basically a living nightmare to realize my dad had successfully gotten me to believe that kind of behavior could be justified. And he did it with the help of these movies.

@andrineslife 6 жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry this happened to you. Thank you for sharing your experience.

@dannyallegra 6 жыл бұрын

My dad is a fan of Bruce Willis' movies. My siblings and I would laugh at him because BW is a bad actor and his movies are bad action movies. However, I remember that when criticizing BW's behavior towards women, my dad would always blame the women. My dad's premise is that all women are crazy, stupid, and in need of being controlled because they don't know what's best for them, but since he didn't grow up watching BW's movies, I think his mentality precedes them. Later, as you said, these movies validated his thinking and misogyny.

@babykekse5137 6 жыл бұрын

Thomas Kilmer While I did not grow up with my father, my mother told me that he hit her in the stomach when she was pregnant with me, which is why their relationship ended. It's disturbing to think that films have contributed to our fathers' actions.

@Niobesnuppa 6 жыл бұрын

Very insightful input. I'm really sorry for what you went through, but I'm glad you shared it.

@sarahshaffer6593 6 жыл бұрын

some of those clips made me physically ill... fantastic vid as always

@michelek9321 6 жыл бұрын

Same. So disgusting.

@DanielEarl 5 жыл бұрын

Hollywood is so perverse, it's sickening.

@1080TJ 6 жыл бұрын

And this is why I don't understand people who walked out of The Force Awakens shipping Rey and Kylo Ren.

@TykoBrian7 6 жыл бұрын

TJ Hastie YAY, St Vincent!!!

@jessicaegizii6801 6 жыл бұрын

So true!

@katerobinson1988 6 жыл бұрын

Han and Leia is also a semi abusive relationship as well, so I'm not surprised. It's a plot point trope in Star wars (in the films, not sure about the expanded universe). Harrison Ford use to play a lot of roles where he can be seen as abusive, Blade runner and Indian Jones being two examples

@wellingtonsmith4998 6 жыл бұрын

TJ Hastie, we've been seeing this stuff so often (the love of a woman fixing a criminal man) that we've come to expect it. Our culture is still broken, but with work like this we will have equality one day soon.

@nm541 6 жыл бұрын

TJ Hastie RIGHT? People are like "but there's sooooo much sexual tension!!" I'm just like my good bitch, he literally tortured her and tried to kill her multiple times. Where's the sexual tension at?

@rosebrunniche4000 6 жыл бұрын

It's disturbing that a lot of these hostages in the examples are east asian women........ Horrific amount of racial fetishisation in the film industry in particular.

@sambeawesome 6 жыл бұрын

THANK YOU for calling out Passengers because good god did that movie make me angry. Even worse, as I watched it with my parents, they raved at how loving and great the romance was and I was sitting there like...UM...WHAT?

@WiltsKiwi 6 жыл бұрын

I actually saw it free on digital download after only seeing the trailer. I was so disgusted, that I nearly didn't finish watching it.

@theburntcheeto 6 жыл бұрын

The general out for fans of the movie is that the isolation Jim experienced drove him crazy, but the movie only uses those effects as an excuse to get him to waking up Aurora. It conveniently gets rid of them afterward.

@tenfoldvictory324 6 жыл бұрын

sambeawesome.. Same here. I didn't know what the movie was about before I saw it. I'm still not ok with this movie. The writing is really lazy and the story is boring. I don't mind boring but the it's also immensely creepy.

@TheYetixOUTx 6 жыл бұрын

the ending is the only thing that pissed me off but i love how it envoked rage and disgust until then

@merchantfan 6 жыл бұрын

That was a great title reveal.

@PopCultureDetective 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks! You're the first one to mention it.

@hauntedmushroomsasmr7716 Жыл бұрын

One of my FAVORITE stories ever is Phantom of the Opera, where abduction and threatening is a key focus on the story. The whole point of it is where an anti-social, deformed genius is obsessed with a beautiful young soprano that he has been training under the guise of an “Angel” since she was a child. When she discovered the truth, she is horrified and terrified but also feels extreme guilt when she rejects him after seeing his face for the first time. His obsession warps into hatred and blame and anger which explodes into murder, abduction, and threats to kill her boyfriend if she doesn’t choose him. She tearfully does, but he is overwhelmed with horror and remorse for his actions and instantly lets her go. He realizes that he has destroyed her life and how miserable and insane and unworthy he truly is. He lets her go because he knows he doesn’t deserve her and that she truly is better off without him. It’s a terribly sad story but one that ended in the only way that it could.

@tinidude8745 Ай бұрын

Apparently there was supposed to be a sequel, I think there is a written one at least, where the woman (I don't remember any of their names TvT) is in love with the phantom and even though she married the other guy she spent a night with the phantom doing.. you know what.. and so we discover that the kid the woman and guy had is not from the guy but from the phantom 🤡 when I read about all of this I was flabbergasted, it destroyed everything the movie did it's honestly so disgusting

@celebrimborblue5052 6 жыл бұрын

As a kid watching these sorts of movies always made me side with the guy, while I viewed the woman as uppity etc. Anyway, it's so insidious the way the narrative of these movies makes the guy look reasonable and the woman "has to be put in her place" and "see reason". It definitely affected me as a young and added a bucketload of manure to my blossoming internalized misogyny. Thank you so much for this perspective. Hopefully this trope dies in a fire.:)

@americossack3870 6 жыл бұрын

Goddamit, why do you have to ruin so many movies for me!? But seriously though, thanks for these videos, they are really eye opening. It's amazing how much nasty behavior in media ive overlooked simply because these tropes are depicted as normal.

@Ash-yh5oy 6 жыл бұрын

it's interesting to me that so many people weren't already bothered by these things. The scenes he showed made me incredibly uncomfortable and of the ones I had previously seen without this context they still made me uncomfortable when I originally saw them. No judgement certainly. Most people don't notice this or they excuse it for themselves in order to continue to enjoy the story.

@metallsnubben 6 жыл бұрын

It's both scary how much stuff you start noticing, but at the same time nice to know you're not missing it and being subconsciously affected into thinking it's "normal"

@Ruby_V_ 6 жыл бұрын

Its okay to both like and dislike individual parts of things.

@NickonPlanetRipple 6 жыл бұрын

That's because many people focus on the simple mechanics of a story, the characters just being devices to move the plot from point a to b, societal implications flying over their head. Things like "What do you expect Kyle to do, LET the Terminator kill her and doom the human race to extinction?" "What's prince charming supposed to do, leave her asleep forever?" are thoughts I myself have reflexively had because, especially as an (autistic) writer, it's all too easy to take things completely literally and not see the subtext. To strip down all the over and undertones of a narrative and reduce it to just the gears turning and that being the most pressing thing, the literal story devices. And for that first moment, it's easy for the notion of simply not putting the characters IN that situation where such actions are necessary at all and writing some different scenario to seem baffling. Impossible, even (but then there would be no story?). But only briefly.

@fruitpuff9388 6 жыл бұрын

For real. I don't think I'll ever be able to look at Stardust quite the same way again.

@super8studios208 3 жыл бұрын

Man: drags a screaming woman into a car as she screams for help Old lady: my oh my they must be terribly in love What is your logic, lady?!?

@itsthehallway7685 6 жыл бұрын

I have a friend in an abusive relationship and she believes that if she loves her abusive partner enough it'll change him. She at the point she accepts his abuse. Not only to her but other women as well. He's currently being accused of rape of another woman while in a relationship and she's blaming the other girl

@RandomSwiftie13 Жыл бұрын

after 4 years~ Did she finally leave or still with him?

@da3musceteers 8 ай бұрын

Yup, after a while of heing treated inhumanely that will inevitably happen

@itsthehallway7685 8 ай бұрын

Yeah she left him but not before they had a child and he’s now a permanent fixture in her life.

@rukome734 6 жыл бұрын

You have no idea how great and powerful your work is. I am watching this from Nigeria. Thank you for producing such an informative body of art.

@Candyrock15 6 жыл бұрын

Ruks hello fellow Nigerian!

@ReyhanJoseph 6 жыл бұрын

You're the greatest at explaining cliches and tropes that affect relationships in our society. Thank you for your contribution for helping me understand how to write better characters and set an example.

@cedricwublin9306 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, after this episode, I worriedly went back through my old stuff to see if I'd ever used this trope. Thankfully not!

@ludmilamaiolini6811 6 жыл бұрын

This video is so necessary. Everyday when I watch the news, there’s a story about a woman who was murdered by her partner or previous partner. We need to stop romanticizing this kind of behavior

@FrogLehane 6 жыл бұрын

Part of the problem is so many men still believe women are less in some ways than them: intellectually, when it comes to making decisions or controlling their own lives. There is at least one "esoteric" writer, at least a somewhat famous one, who has book explaining how women don't have souls and are unable to have a life and goals if they don't have a man (read: belong to a man). And the reason I know these things is that my father is a huge fan of such "theories". And yes, I haven't seen him in six years, he can have all the fun he wants with those books and movies. It's so amazing to see these videos. Growing up with a sexist father and a sexist brother certainly did not help with my view of the world, but these do. I will donate to your channel as soon as I start with my job.

@fiorefiore9910 6 жыл бұрын

When I was a little girl I used to think about this "kidnapping meet cute" as destiny, I only realized after growing up a bit about the bad influence this way of thinking can have in kids (both boys and girls)

@siljabogensberger2738 6 жыл бұрын

Fiorenza Agazzi me too

@gustavoa.belfiore4701 6 жыл бұрын

As a straight male, it takes years to shake off all these shitty tropes we acquired through pop culture. Thanks, mate.

@Elamado97 7 ай бұрын

who the hell is abducting women after watching these?

@DMAGAEscober 2 ай бұрын

These tropes are art, they’ll live on for generations. 😂

@Janegamin 5 жыл бұрын

Jesus this video makes me feel uncomfortable, which was probably the point. I hadn't realized that THIS MANY movies featured a man kidnapping a woman and forcing her to fall in love with him.

@EmmaSkies 5 жыл бұрын

I have this conversation with my father constantly and he rolls his eyes and says it’s a generational thing. Specifically when we saw passengers I pointed out that the entire premise was creepy and unacceptable, and he rolled his eyes and said millennials are just too sensitive and that it was romantic. Same thing happens in Bladerunner too. Harrison Ford’s character physically bars Rachel from leaving when she tries to go and they end up having sex. Creepy, abusive, and wrong but framed as romantic. This shit is everywhere :/

@starstorm1267 11 ай бұрын

Your dad ain’t wrong when he said it’s a generational thing. His generation was raised to believe that harming and imprisoning women is supposed to be a way to show that you “love” them. The younger generation however, is smarter and knows that it’s not romance, it’s abuse

@MylesKillis 4 ай бұрын

@@starstorm1267harming them isn’t love. However using violence to make them listen or to stop them from harming themselves was seen as love. Obviously I don’t agree but I see the logic. Better I hurt you than the world.

@deusexmachina9776 6 жыл бұрын

I got accepted to the university which was my first choice. Next year I will be majoring in Film Theory along with English Lit and Philosophy and a huge part of that is thanks to you. Your videos have inspired me a great deal, they have made me aware which helps me become a better writer and story teller.

@cedricwublin9306 6 жыл бұрын

Welcome to the Arts and Humanities, buddy! Many wondrous hours of essay writing await!

@rowanstrang8072 6 жыл бұрын

This channel could be renamed, ‘slowly causing me hate hate every film I ever loved’

@monicalux5455 6 жыл бұрын

10 Cloverfield Lane is a great example of a film that portrays abduction as abduction and its perp as creepy, disgusting, and unforgivable

@tylerroads9209 5 жыл бұрын

As an abuse survivor myself, this essay hit the nail on the head. I stayed with them because I could 'change them' and it was only when I was faced with the realization they wanted me to spend the rest of my life in a literal closet did I realize that maybe Hollywood had lied to me. I'm super glad you talked about Passengers. My family LOVED it, said that Jim wasn't in the wrong, it was true love, etc, and I could never explain WHY what he did bothered me so much. This video explains it perfectly.

@EpiphanyDraws 6 жыл бұрын

I'm actually writing a short comic right now which centers on "abduction as romance" being shown as what it really is: abuse. This was wonderfully germane and perfectly timed formy current project--thank you for making and posting this video.

@siljabogensberger2738 6 жыл бұрын

Epiphany Paige do you have a social media account on ig or fb? I would like to see it when it is done

@13ciaran13000 6 жыл бұрын

What’s it called?

@Torthrodhel 6 жыл бұрын

That's a valuable thing to add to the world, best of luck with it.

@danielwareking 6 жыл бұрын

I'm haunted by the idea of this film being a dark sci-fi horror directed by someone like David Fincher. It could be such a great film if they had just leaned into the creepy aspects of the story.

@casir.7407 6 жыл бұрын

Daniel King keeping in mind that apparently the director was heavily influenced by the shining when making this movie, its mind boggling to think why it wasnt a straight up sci fi horror film a la alien

@MRuby-qb9bd 6 жыл бұрын

YES!

@daltonbedore8396 6 жыл бұрын

Casi R. definitely should have been, and probably was meant to be, but executive producers etc etc.

@Jessamine29 6 жыл бұрын

I think Keanu Reeves was in talks for a while. Imagine it as a dark thriller with Reeves instead of Chris Pratt....

@becademarques 6 жыл бұрын

So... Dear lazy writers: Have you ever been threatened and "put in your place" by a guy big enough to break one of your bones? No. Let me tell you something: I have. And it is f***ing terrifying. (also: Yes! You're back! I've missed your videos)

@Liz_ArdE 6 жыл бұрын

This video is the one that finally conviced me to make a patreon. I never noticed this trope in some movies I've seen a bunch of times and love. We need to be critical of our media and your channel does a fantasic job of explaning how insidious some tropes are. I look forward to every video!

@PopCultureDetective 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for the support!

@Hermelu 6 жыл бұрын

These scenes always made me feel very uncomfortable as a man and I didn't really know why. This video describes precisely what I could never turn into words. Quality content as always :)

@ArrogantDan 6 жыл бұрын

It's crazy how obvious this lesson seems when you lay it out. "There are loads of films where men are abusive kidnappers rewarded with romance from their female kidnappees. This is gross - stop it." isn't a thing that should need to be said.

@xXnickylodeonXx 3 жыл бұрын

How sad it is that abduction continues to be a popular trope, the movie 365 days being one of the newest examples. That shit is not cute or romantic. Thanks for this video!

@patrickblanchette4337 6 жыл бұрын

Wow, Woody Allen is a part of this misogynistic trope; what a coincidence.

@voltairinekropotkin5581 6 жыл бұрын

In the comic _V for Vendetta_ , the character commits the same acts (and worse), but they're framed in a completely different way. Alan Moore wanted the audience to make up their own minds as to what extent V was the hero or the villain, asking themselves to what extent violent and cruel actions are justified in service of a good cause. V is depicted as being motivated at least as much by vicious bloodlust against those who tortured him as by his anarchist and antifascist beliefs. And Evey, despite agreeing with his beliefs, in the end rejects his methods, saying "I won't kill for you" as she bids him farewell. Mental illness also plays a much more explicit role, as it's implied that the experiments done on V when he was imprisoned have left him in the equivalent of a never-ending LSD trip. This begs the audience to ponder to what extent this makes him enlightened vs unhinged. In the movie, they took several things V did which were meant to be ethically ambiguous and portrayed them as heroic and noble - even torturing and (effectively) brainwashing Evey. And they had the audacity to try to work a love story into the story when their original relationship is more of a manipulative mentor-apprentice relationship.

@hecklinghecker4971 Жыл бұрын

This comment is superior old I know but I want to say that I really do appreciate it, I wish that the guy would have highlighted that difference between the comic and the movie, he said specifically about the movie but he never mentions that in the comic it is relevant and important and that the character v is not a very good person and that the narrative does not try to convince the audience that he is in the right always

@maricrisr. 6 жыл бұрын

OMG! This is so disturbing.

@isabelhuang_1 6 жыл бұрын

You can say that again

@bretbret8293 6 жыл бұрын

Maricris R. The best thing about these videos is that he brings up so many norms that shouldn't be norms, and often, we don't recognize them.

@ElevatorEleven 5 жыл бұрын

I think the cartoon Beauty and the Beast holds up as baaasically fine since Bell only starts to warm up to Beast when he stops acting like a douchebag and she doesn't take his shit before that point, and he is shown to be making sincere attempts to change. Not so much for the 2017 live action version though.

@YorkChangeling 6 жыл бұрын

I'd like to see a movie deconstructing this trope. Have it start as your usual "abduction turns to romance" gambit, only for the victim to successfully escape and admit that they did whatever they needed to to get their captor to let their guard down. It'd be an interesting twist on the formula, I think.

@ArkadianDream 6 жыл бұрын

You called out two of my favourites, but I love you anyway because this video is extremely necessary

@KrazyKain 6 жыл бұрын

Sara Mantilaro he did that for me with born sexy yesterday and 5th element. But hey, it is both possible and necessary to enjoy something and call it out for it's more problematic and pernicious aspects.

@Yahoodoraze 6 жыл бұрын

Was one of them Shrek

@daddyleon 6 жыл бұрын

*+Sara Mantilaro* Which were they?? Mine was _Crouching tiger, hidden dragon_ I feel so silly for not noticing it before.

@RandomSwiftie13 Жыл бұрын

@@Yahoodoraze and the other one Megamind because that would be it for me lol.

@Chocomunchie Жыл бұрын

@@daddyleon Mine was V for Vendetta, and it hurt for him to call it the "worst example of it". I think those scenes were necessary within the context of the story (which this video leaves out, of course) and a surprising twist (which this video spoils, sadly), and I feel that if she were a man instead, it wouldn't have changed the scenes' context or purpose. We also have to understand that V is a terrorist, he's no hero and will do terrible things to achieve his goals, to see if somebody is trustworthy, or to make people understand something, and she was rightfully disgusted and did hate him for a time (which the video also left out), but, I completely agree that it's problematic to have her forgive him or to develop any romantic interest after the dust settled. She being changed by going through exactly what he had experienced can still aid the story, but, turning their dynamic into romance was definitely unneeded, that I will concede. Still a great movie of anti-fascism and anti-discrimination, nevertheless.

@GritsnBeans 6 жыл бұрын

Passengers would have been more interesting had Pratt died leaving Lawrence's character to eventually make the same decision.

@Toshimi1043 6 жыл бұрын

Or Lawrence could have been the hero by convincing Pratt to go back into stasis in her place, preventing him from potentially trying to wake someone up again, and spending her time alone writing to expose his actions to everyone else when they wake up.

@a.l.michael6240 6 жыл бұрын

I never thought about the message of the victim being able to change the abusive guy as it's portrayed in movies. That one hit me. Because the women in my family, including me, have all endured verbal or domestic abuse by men. And for me I thought that it was possible to be the one women who "saves him". It puts a sickening feeling in my stomach but it's true, men don't just change over night and they don't change because of a women suddenly coming into their lives. They just accommodate their toxic behavior for the company of two. Thank you for this video.

@valencee.lectron3627 Жыл бұрын

the thing that pisses me off is that passengers could have been a good thriller and existential horror. i think Chris Pratt's character is 'realistically and understandably evil' because he's put in an extreme and horrible situation, being locked on a space station alone until he dies, and has few solutions the "best" of which is very morally dubious and selfish. I think there an appeal to that story wise, that any person left alone in a dire situation long enough might make bad choices and might make the audience question if they would ever go far enough to do the same. Aurora is in an equally bad situation, for most of the movie she is unable to return to cryo sleep and basically has the options of killing Jim, herself, both, or to go on living with the guy that literally took the rest of your life away. I think her killing jim would have been a good ending i would have been interesting to see an internal struggle to decide what to do, most people arent down to kill someone even if they are a bad person and if she did kill him she would be left alone for the remainder of the trip, the exact same situation he was in. it could have been a story about how much stress you can put a human under before they start throwing out their morals or completely lowering their standards until the bar is burried in the bedrock. but no, scifi romance...

@RoseanneEllen 6 жыл бұрын

Fantastic video. It's actually quite depressing seeing all these scenes bunched together like this.

@laurenbennett7674 6 жыл бұрын

Taming of the Shrew, anyone?

@MissYay11 6 жыл бұрын

So true!

@floraposteschild4184 6 жыл бұрын

I know. But there's a Shakespeare Retold version (with Shirley Henderson) which is actually workable in modern terms, yet not too far from the original story. It's one of the VERY few modern versions that is better than the original.

@aldenheterodyne2833 6 жыл бұрын

I actually liked the first part of taming of the shrew. She has autonomy, she has opinions, she is rightfully pissed about being sold off like cattle. This is a show which portrayed a woman like a being with thoughts and feelings. I do not, however, like the second half. But I excuse it because it was around 400 years ago, and therefore I still kinda like taming of the shrew.

@singenstattatmen5096 6 жыл бұрын

Lauren Bennett Much as I love Shakespeare, that one I really really hate and I will avoid ever being in it for all my life, if I can. The ending ist just disgusting.

@ejsbxbeiaskd1770 6 жыл бұрын

Lauren Bennett YES! that was so messed up

@demetrikissel6259 2 жыл бұрын

i do thnk one thing that gets missed a lot with beauty and the beast is that the story likely started as something young women wrote about arranged marriages, and how it felt to be taken from their homes to go with a man they didnt really know

@simonmandel2621 3 жыл бұрын

This video made me think of the movie Antz, where Z kidnaps Princess Bala from the colony against her will. As a kid I thought it was rather funny and normal, however, watching this video has made me rethink that whole film.

@UnknownGunslinger 6 жыл бұрын

This Movie would’ve been so much better if it started from Aurora’s perspective in the beginning. She wakes up, she sees all the weirdness that the creepy dude’s been making. You as the audience try to piece out the facts. Would make for quite a decent thriller.

@dangeldoll 6 жыл бұрын

I ‘ve been pointing this problem out for years, but I was a young girl, so I was told I “just don’t get it” many many times, or “this is romance” and then the “passengers” comes out, and a lot of people came to realize that from the perspective of the girl, this is a horror Ya don’t say... Thank you all, who do see this problem and speak about it, this needs to be talked about more.

@fyrefrost1898 4 жыл бұрын

Aurora’s name even suggests that Jim was a handsome prince waking up his princess through an act of true love

@VictorKB96 3 жыл бұрын

Bad thing you made this video before the release of "365 days"

@kimberlyterasaki4843 6 жыл бұрын

17:30 I agree with this statement, especially since Mrs. Potts says "Oh you must show her to look past all that" as though Belle was viewing him as a monster for his looks and not for his behavior. However, I do believe that Beast's growth is a touch more gradual than the single redemptive action typical of most abduction romances (at least in the original animated version). He does not harass Belle, instead he changes his behavior so he is no longer beastly, culminating in him releasing Belle, knowing she probably won't come back, and sparing Gaston. Not to say that there isn't still some abusive undertones (there are articles / documentaries that cite Beauty and the Beast as a main influence on children's perceptions of abusive behaviors), but I thought it was worth mentioning as for me that's one of the most aggravating aspects of abduction romances.

@casir.7407 6 жыл бұрын

Kimberly Terasaki i am almost sure this is a result of having a woman in the writing room... the complicated politics of beauty and the beast stories were already there, but i kind of think that this is the best she could do with what they had. theres a lindsay ellis video talking all about beauty and beast stories and how it relates to stories told to young women to prepare them for arranged marriages, if youre interested in further analysis of the trope

@Rosie_ee_ee_ee 6 жыл бұрын

He never takes responsibility for how abusive his actions were though. We don't even know if, even at the end, he believes what he did was wrong.

@moncielvariable 6 жыл бұрын

@enolalarchey3601 6 жыл бұрын

I couldn't tell why I felt so bad while watching "Passengers" and thanks to you, now I understand! I empathised with Aurora and throughout the whole movie, I thought that Chris Pratt's character was selfish and never taken accountable for what he's done ... And in the end, they lived happily ever after and blablabla ... The worst part is that, in this particular video, you used so many examples of recent movies! It's really alarming that nowadays, this trope still exists! Until now, I never noticed that women in those movies try to defend themselves but are not in any way considered seriously by their kidnapper ... Thank you for your amazing work, it's much needed 👍

@fishbuddy547 4 жыл бұрын

You can't "fix" anyone. You can help them along, but only they can change themselves.

@npcx-mq6cr 4 жыл бұрын

I genuinely appreciate the depth, clarity, thoughtfulness and articulation of these video essays, but it's still so messed up that we as women have to be grateful that a man is saying these things so that they might actually be heard.

@softmoonangel 6 жыл бұрын

I love watching your videos but at the same time they make me so mad! How are these violent tropes so popular and overused??And then when violence against women is brought up in conversations its treated like a joke, violence against women is so closely woven into our culture and media it's terrifying

@Moscato_Moscato 6 жыл бұрын

He’s back *BABY!!*

@lauraemz9458 6 жыл бұрын

Just what I was thinking 🤣

@JediJuniper92 5 жыл бұрын

I am literally the only person I know in my family and friend group who found Passengers terrifyingly creepy and disturbing. Everyone else was like, "It was so beautiful and sweet!" and I'm like, "Uhh no, that's horrifying and the fact that it ended 'happily' makes me even more uncomfortable."

@LiterallyMisty 2 жыл бұрын

The point about the double standard for men of color was very relevant

@splatterhouse2450 6 жыл бұрын

this is really terrifying oh my god

@upchuckles243 6 жыл бұрын

I didn't realize just how common this trope is. It's everywhere!

@arussell2467 6 жыл бұрын

Amazing! I always feel like I finish these videos a more competent critical thinker than when I began them. You walk a difficult line. I've often found analysis to either be too difficult to comprehend, or rudimentary. Your word choice, format, and editing practices display and communicate your depth of understanding in an organized, easy-to-digest way, which is a feat that I'm trying to learn from. As a young person who is interested in filmmaking and storytelling, gender studies and social activism, and psychology and sociology, so much of your content is right up my ally! Your videos have been teaching me many things, on a vast variety of topics- film history and critique, contemporary issues, critical analysis, personal safety, and essay writing only begin the list. Thank you so much for doing what you do, I look forward to hearing more from you and your wonderful mind. Keep up the fantastic work! Adored this video!

@jennymunday7913 Жыл бұрын

The scene where he feeds her pizza made me think that kidnapping is supposed to make the "good guy" seem good because 1. he has to nurture her by feeding her/ taking care of her needs 2. she consents to sex (disturbingly usually AFTER it has occurred). It's like she's rewarding him for being "nurturing" when he wouldn't HAVE to do any of that if she wasn't kidnapped.

@suzannewdowik 6 жыл бұрын

Really great video, as always. I never even thought about how the Stockholm Syndrome argument puts the emphasis on the victim, while the emphasis should be on the perpetrator. Some of my favorite movies use this trope, the first one coming to mind being National Treasure. Love these movies, but this trope definitely needs to die.

@dustinicer2138 6 жыл бұрын

I think, like with a lot of the tropes he explores, the issue is less that the trope needs to die and more that it needs to be explored in different ways. I actually disagree with some of the examples he uses here because of that. Personally I prefer his individual analyses (like on the Big Bang Theory) because of how this format makes it difficult to explore the moral complexity in certain portrayals of tropes. In this case, I think he misses out on some of the context of _particular_ movies where it's a case of an anti-hero, who, kinda by definition, does shitty things to serve some sort of greater good because they aren't strong enough to get the job done without making some sort of sacrifice along the way. Sometimes this stems from lazy writing but I don't feel he adequately confronts that element of, again, _particular_ movies which he listed (I really want to stress that because a) I haven't seen all the movies and b) I think in a lot of cases his points accurately reflect some of the skeevy parts of our culture which are reflected in our media.)

@spidervenomkilljoy 6 жыл бұрын

I literally thought about that same movie haha I remember how in National Treasure a kidnapping turned into a love story xS

@Uejji 6 жыл бұрын

I love this channel, and I love your work. Though I can't help but notice that massive praise is heaped upon you in the comments, while your message is practically identical to Anita Sarkeesian's, who has always had to disable comments and ratings due to the enormous vitriol she receives. It really goes to prove her point that men will accept being introspective about analyzing toxic masculinity in media, as long as it's a man leading them there.

@carolinepenn5916 6 жыл бұрын

Exactly. I love Feminist Frequency.

@Tozzie50 6 жыл бұрын

We usually let men say things weve been saying for forever just so well be heard

@yourbuttcrack 6 жыл бұрын

He also moderates the comments, whereas I feel like Anita got well known enough that filtering the helpful comments from the slimeball ones wasn't feasible. But I do agree that him being male probably effects the hate he gets (and that Anita never wouldn't have got it so bad if she was a man :( ).

@FunnyFany 6 жыл бұрын

... I mean, I'm pretty sure these comments are heavily moderated. But still, yeah. You have a point.

@thatjillgirl 6 жыл бұрын

He actually used to work for her on Feminist Frequency, I believe, which makes it all the more darkly ironic.

@chickenmon 6 жыл бұрын

With so many horrible examples of masculinity in film, I absolutely loved your exploration of Newt Scamander and why he is a great male protagonist. Could you do an essay exploring a myriad of positive portrayals of male characters in movies?

@mrsmith4036 3 жыл бұрын

This movie was such a missed opportunity. Seeing this movie from the perspective of Jennifer Lawrence's character as she slowly put the pieces together could have been great. As the audience, you would not be privy to the deception of Chris Pratt's character until J Law's character started to put it all together, and the third act twist that could have arisen from that... *sigh*. Such a shame.

@human9452 3 ай бұрын

I know this comment is 3 yo but yes exactly. Either have them both wake up and help each other come to terms with the terror of being the only humans awake for the rest of their lives or have it be a thriller that starts out from Lawrence’s POV