Braiding rubber motors - a "lost" art from the 1930s!

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11 жыл бұрын

Here I show a simple way to braid rubber motors and note some of the advantages. I also mention some simple variations. There's scattered information about this on the web, but there must of been detailed knowledge of this back in the 1930s, the heyday of rubber power, that has since been lost.
A good example of the need for braiding with a long motor is shown in my 'first Smalvihill' flying video, at • Rubber RC Mulvihill, m... The prop has folded after a nice climb, about a minute into the video, but some rubber bunched up in the back of the fuselage and so the plane stalls back to the field. Braiding solves this problem.
Update: you can wind the two halves counter clockwise so they wind together clockwise, it's a little neater, and that way the motor doesn't loosen when winding down, though mine usually stop before they get to that point so it doesn't really make any difference.

Пікірлер: 67

@tifosiman68 11 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this Tutorial, I've been looking for a braiding video for a while. I might actually get the guts to fly one of my planes this spring.

@robertbrunston5406 5 жыл бұрын

I don't know much about these rubber band motors yet! Thank you.

@MarkRobinson555 11 ай бұрын

Excellent video, thank you very much for sharing 😀

@domoremath 11 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I think its nice to see it done at least once, just to get started. Go out and fly, its fun!

@frankartieta7483 5 жыл бұрын

Hello :) This is becoming a lost art I must say that You are a modeler like I have never seen There is much to learn from you ! Thank you for the great videos here ! I just recently found your KZfaq videos I have a bunch of questions :)

@domoremath 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you, I hope the videos are helpful. You should also go to hip pocket aeronautics for posting questions, there are lots of useful people there, its a great hobby!

@collinmccallum Жыл бұрын

great information!

@aeroearth 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video! I always braid rubber motors by putting a dowed/small screw driver in the middle of the motor held temporarily with a small rubber band looped around the ends. I wind BACKWARDS to braid otherwise the two skeins fly apart during the run down and can hit the delicate fuselage uprights or formers and damage them. Then to form the braid bring both ends together holding the mid point in the other hand. Then let go. dowel/small screwdriver which will spin until it reaches a rest point. I put a small rubber band around each end then fit them around a "Tim Gray" double loop 1/16" piano wire hook. Third band at the hook to hold both halves together. Pull out dowel/small screw driver from other end and fit another small band to hold the rubber strands together about 1" from the end. For the prop. shaft hook I bend a "D" shaped hook at the end of the shaft, with the back of the "D" against the nose block. Back of the "D" is just half of the flat as shaft goes into rear bearing. The small central hole in the "Tim Gray" piano wire hook just fits over the open end of the "D". Rubber loops of "Tim Gray" hook have short pieces of 1/16" bore neoprene or pvc tube pushed on to protect the rubber strands. The "Tim Gray" hooks on the "D" end of the prop. shaft NEVER climb the hook.

@domoremath 4 жыл бұрын

Yes I mention the backwards winding above, though it doesn't really matter for tube jobs with folders like these. I never use hooks anymore, bobbins are wobble free, dead true, and there's no possibility of climbing, so I eventually started doing everything with bobbins around 2014.

@HughJarse1968 10 жыл бұрын

Very helpful video, thanks. Just one question: at 3:15, does it matter in which direction you make the winds? Kind regards from England.

@domoremath 10 жыл бұрын

I've always wound both halves clockwise, then they will braid nicely. You could try it counterclockwise, but that might give you less energy because the halves will be tightening further when winding, whereas with clockwise they actually untwist when winding. However, I haven't tried it so that's just speculation, but I know that clockwise definitely works!

@kbird529 7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing, I enjoy all your videos and it has helped me in learning more about free flight

@domoremath 7 жыл бұрын

Thanks, glad the videos are helpful!

@tifosiman68 11 жыл бұрын

I bought a 30" Dumas Cub just for flying. I always thought a Dumas would fly without modifications.

@kingpinboogie 7 жыл бұрын

Very well explained! Thanks!

@domoremath 7 жыл бұрын

You're welcome. I use 'slightly' braided motors on all of my oldtimers, really helps in my view.

@falconeaterf15 3 жыл бұрын

Behold the future of commercial aviation........

@Astracygnus 4 жыл бұрын

Is there any advantage of using many strands of smaller cross section rubber motor than using fewer with larger cross section? For example how about using few 1/4 strands rather than many 1/8 strands while making same length and weight rubber motor? Thank you.

@domoremath 4 жыл бұрын

There's lots of discussion and debate about this, but I've never noticed any difference between using more strands of thinner rubber or less of thicker, power characteristics seem the same. The only times I vary from 1/8 is when I want to make motors with an unequal number of strands - e.g., if you want a 5 strand motor of 1/8, you can use 10 strands (5 loops) of 1/16 - or if I want a certain length in Coupe/Wake/P30.

@josephwolf1 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the helpful video. I'm new to free flight rubber powered and have a question, how do I know how much to wind.....I have the feal as if my model is about to crack when I wind it more then a 100 turns

@domoremath 3 жыл бұрын

I usually mention how many winds I have for each plane, typically it is at least 800. You have to lubricate and stretch the motor, do a search on 'rubber motor maximum winds' and you'll find a bunch of useful resources, there are also charts around that give the maximum winds for a given motor, and ways to calculate it. Good luck!

@josephwolf1 3 жыл бұрын

@@domoremath Thank you I will.

@07870553254 4 жыл бұрын

Can I ask what size rubber motor would you recommend for smaller models ie a 17 inch span T6? Thank you Simon

@domoremath 4 жыл бұрын

Hard to answer that, follow the recommendations on the plan, for 17 inch you're probably talking in the range of 2-4 strands of 1/8.

@garryhammond7619 8 жыл бұрын

Hi I have build a 30's style rubber motor powered boat (based on the Bowman Aeroboat2 pictures abound of these boats on the internet.) I have watched your video a number of times and just get a little confused at the directions the first strand is wound then the direction the second strand is wound, and finally which direction the motor is wound in. It looks to me as if both strands are wound clockwise and then they are released together which binds them in an anticlockwise direction. Do you then wind the whole motor clockwise? I have just bought my first rubber strip and would like to get this right. I have tested the boat just using elastic bands but they are too tight and drop the power like a dragster. Many thanks for the great videos. Hope you can help. Kind regards Garry UK (The English Bit).

@domoremath 8 жыл бұрын

Hi, yes that's correct, the two half set of strands are wound clockwise separately, then put together and wound counterclockwise. The braided motor is then wound clockwise. I hope that helps, have fun with the boat!

@garryhammond7619 8 жыл бұрын

Thanks I shall give it a go. Kind Regards Garry UK (The English Bit)

@jimbo2629 6 жыл бұрын

I think it is better to wind both halves backwards and then wind the combined strands forwards a little to produce an even braid. That way you don’t unwind the braiding every time you start to wind the motor to fly. I think this may be important. I’ve never braided your way so I don’t know what happens in practice.

@jimbo2629 6 жыл бұрын

Interesting video. When braiding I wind the rubber backwards. That can’t be done with your winder as it will unthread. It certainly helps stop bunching. I can’t remember where it said to wind backwards,but there is logic to it. I think it stops you unwinding the braiding at the start of each motor wind. I lubricate before braiding to get at all the rubber. Despite this your models fly better than mine, even with the extra weight of RC gear. Braiding is much easier with a helper😀.

@domoremath 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks, yes you can also wind backwards and then join the halves, then it doesn't unwind during the first few winds, though it doesn't seem to make much difference since you'll have some turns left on the motor anyway when it hits the stop. Here's hoping they keep coming up with lighter equipment!

@stanburdick9708 5 жыл бұрын

dont ask me why but I should know by now!! but is it correct the motor before wound should be 1.5 X the fuse ,so say the fuse is 24in. so am guessing the motor should be 60in total before winding, right???

@domoremath 5 жыл бұрын

You have to measure the distance from the nose hook to the rear peg. If that's say 24in, then the loop of rubber (regardless of how many strands) should be 1.5 times that distance, or 36".

@stanburdick9708 5 жыл бұрын

hello again, so I made up some braided motors different strands/lengths, question is how long should a motor be if the distance from rear peg to prop hook is 18in. …….this is not considering prop size

@domoremath 5 жыл бұрын

Choosing the correct prop/rubber motor combination is the most important part of rubber power flying. You can't do it by distance alone, it depends on the prop size and pitch. I'd recommend using the prop/motor combo given on the plan, then you can try small variations depending on how it flies, that's what I do. If it's not on the plan, SAM has a very useful list of length/strands for most oldtimers, www.antiquemodeler.org/ - look in the 'How to's - rubber' section.

@stanburdick9708 5 жыл бұрын

k thanx, I think your referring to the gene wollack list but it doesn't say what kind of motor ,braided or non-braided or does it matter??

@domoremath 5 жыл бұрын

When referring to motor length, and I do in some videos as well, it's always to the unbraided motor length.

@FourDollaRacing 8 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the how-to video! Looks like white dreadlocks....BLECH!

@falconeaterf15 3 жыл бұрын

Has anyone ever lost an eye doing this? YES !

@domoremath 3 жыл бұрын

That's why I point out in some other videos that one should always wear eye protection when winding motors - for ex., see my travel box video. I haven't lost any eyes yet in over 50 years of winding!

@56Seeker 6 жыл бұрын

So you use dedicated metal fixtures to end off the rubber? I naively thought it was just looped onto the hook from the prop. This type of info is great; it's not the sort of thing you see on kit plans.

@domoremath 6 жыл бұрын

Yes, it's common to use aluminum hooks in the front, like the T-hook shown in this video, then you can wind with the prop off and use blast tubes or half tubes. The ones I usually use these days are shown in the Lanzo build video.

@jimbo2629 6 жыл бұрын

I use a reverse S shaft and Tim White loop to prevent the rubber creeping up the shaft.

@domoremath 6 жыл бұрын

I've gone totally over to the bobbin instead of any hooks, no way the rubber climbs with a bobbin plus you get a nice true spin, which is important.

@56Seeker 6 жыл бұрын

A video focused on these internal fine details would be most helpful

@Astracygnus 5 жыл бұрын

Great video and information. Can you please make a video about how to install rubber motor in plane and how to use half tube to wind motor outside plane. Thanks.

@domoremath 5 жыл бұрын

Next time I make a half-tube I'll make a video. In the interim, this video might help, it shows the half tube and how I wind outside the plane: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fNpgiqdhmJypnYE.html also check hippocket aeronautics, they have a lot of useful information.

@Astracygnus 5 жыл бұрын

@@domoremathThank you. I have seen that video. I don't understand how rubber gets pegged at rear peg with half tube. It seems you just pushed it in plane and motor clicked in and locked itself to rear peg.

@ltdvideos7216 5 жыл бұрын

Yes, it uses a "Piserchio" hook that you can twist onto the rear peg, do a search on Piserchio at hip pocket aeronautics and you can find many pictures, also available here: www.starlink-flitetech.com/windings

@gregp.5739 10 жыл бұрын

When you wind the rubber, do you stretch it out?

@domoremath 10 жыл бұрын

Yes, you should stretch the motor to about 3 to 6 times its' resting length (I've heard some flyers go up to 8 times!), put in about half the winds, then slowly move in for the other half. You'll get a lot more winds with stretching, try some test motors and wind them until they break to see how many turns you can get in.

@gregp.5739 10 жыл бұрын

domoremath Thanks

@donlawrence1428 2 жыл бұрын

Hi. I never saw a switchblade folding prop like that. How does it work? thanks

@domoremath 2 жыл бұрын

This type of folder uses a 'Z-bar', you could probably do a search on folding props (like on hip pocket aeronautics) to get info on them. They just let the blades swivel back into folding position.

@donlawrence1428 2 жыл бұрын

@@domoremath ok thanks

@bottling.hobo. 7 жыл бұрын

Do More Math, I'm new to rubber powered flight and I'm really enjoying the builds. my only problem is,I'm not sure how to assemble a simple rubber motor. How long should I make the rubber motor? I'm only taking a single strand and folding it in half with a square knot. so far I've broken every rubber band that I twist.

@domoremath 7 жыл бұрын

I can't give a general answer to that, it depends on the size and weight of the model and the prop size. Most plans usually note a recommended motor, I would use that, or find one for a similar plane. Make sure that you're lubing the motor before winding, I'd also check at discussion groups like hip pocket to learn more about rubber handling, maybe I can do something more on it as well.

@bottling.hobo. 7 жыл бұрын

+domoremath Thank you. I will look into that site. I love your builds and flights. I use your videos for tips and inspiration. Thank you again.

@domoremath 7 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the feedback.

@john.t645 10 жыл бұрын

can u do this on a P-nut scale model?

@domoremath 10 жыл бұрын

A peanut typically uses a single loop of 1/8" or maybe 3/16". In that case what I do is simply put a few winds in the strand before tying it into a loop, that will remove the slack.

@john.t645 10 жыл бұрын

hmm that solved my issue it flys great thx

@domoremath 10 жыл бұрын

john t Now that I think about it, you can see an example of the twisting ('braiding') for peanut motors in my "Rubber powered models - some preliminaries" video, which includes two peanuts - you'll see some twisted peanut motors in that video. Glad to hear your flying is great!

@nevillecreativitymentor 3 жыл бұрын

2021 BUMP Hi, I am from India ... where can I geth these rubber bands especially for Rubber powered flight and even Peanut Scale Rubber

@domoremath 3 жыл бұрын

The rubber you want is Tan Super Sport rubber (try searching that), the closest to you that I know of would be Mike Woodhouse free flight supplies, in Britain, google him and it will come up right away, he has all the sizes you need for big or small.

@nevillecreativitymentor 3 жыл бұрын

@@domoremath 💗💗💗 Thank you