BRAW or ProRes RAW? The Battle of RAW DOMINATION begins...
Рет қаралды 65,653
Күн бұрынProRes RAW or Blackmagic RAW? Which is better?
With the S1H now enabling external RAW recording on both formats, I was finally able to have a fair comparison!
I’ll share some GOOD NEWS and BAD NEWS... strap in for another nerdy tech review!
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Related Episodes:
S1H ProRes RAW: Part 1: • ProRes RAW - Expectati...
S1H ProRes RAW: Part 2: • ProRes RAW - Expectati...
A7SIII ProRes RAW: Part 1: • A7SIII-PART 1: With Pr...
A7SIII ProRes RAW: Part 2; • A7SIII-PART 2: With Pr...
16bit recording Myth: • A7SIII-PART 1: With Pr...
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TIME STAMPS
00:00 Intro
01:12 Links to watch
01:41 BRAW Requirements on S1H
02:12 Record Presets
02:53 BRAW+S1H Vs BRAW
04:25 White Balance Control
06:14 WB control BRAW Vs Internal
07:18 WB ProRes RAW Vs BRAW
08:40 Noise and Details
11:01 NERD ALERT Noise Tests
13:48 Partially Debayered
15:28 DP thoughts
15:42 BRAW Vs ProRes RAW Summary
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This video represents my personal opinion and is not sponsored or paid for by any brand or person.
#S1H #BlackmagicRAW #ProResRAW
@davidmultimedia2024 Жыл бұрын
One thing that BRAW offers that very few people seem to realize is that you can trim your files and save them back to BRAW in Resolve (without any compromise or loss whatsoever), so you can minimize file size once your editing is done. It means you can easily record all day and fill up your 1 TB SSD if you need to.... then trim all the unnecessary moments and end up with only the ones that you need, and still have access to RAW data. Brilliant, and a total game changer! I truly don't know if you can do the same with ProRes RAW, but I doubt it.
@THEDPJOURNEY Жыл бұрын
Very good point!
@certainlyjoel7778 Жыл бұрын
Wow this is also hard to believe, I'd love to see a tutorial on this
@davidmultimedia2024 Жыл бұрын
@@certainlyjoel7778 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e7J0qdV3mMCoeoU.html
@billyoung9538 2 жыл бұрын
I've been thinking about the conclusions of this video with regards to BlackmagicRAW seeming more processed. According to Blackmagic the demosaic algorithm used for BRAW is supposedly a lot more advance than the any of the real-time demosaic algorithms that occur in editing software, because it is handled by the the hardware FPGA's in the camera vs a software solution that must operate in real time. The result is that things like a greater sample radius can in theory be used for more accurate inter pixel color estimation. What does this mean? It would in theory mean the demosaic would result in fewer residual artifacts in the final image giving the footage an overall smoother and less noisy look, but with, in theory, more accurate colors (excluding the white balance correction issue, as that is a unrelated issue ), but this smoothness could potentially be misinterpreted as if noise reduction had been applied. So this raises the bigger question that actually wasn't answered in this video: How does a post denoised version of ProresRAW compare to a post denoised version of Braw? This is ultimately the real question more so than how much noise was retained, because noise that doesn't add anything meaningful to the final image is just useless noise. In this video we were shown that BRAW cleans up significantly better than H.625, but it is never shown if ProresRAW cleans up as well or better. If ProresRAW cleans up better than Braw then that is the win, but if they clean up nearly identically then that would mean Braw got rid of useless noise information likely due to a more sophisticated demosaic algorithm and that they are equal from an end result standpoint; however, if Braw were to clean up better than the ProresRAW then that would imply the demosaic was actually better, and despite showing less noise in the initial footage could potentially be considered the superior format, because again it's the end result that really matters. My suspicion is that they will likely clean up nearly identically making them more or less equivalent outside of meaningless noise, which would mean the Braw was just better demosaiced and noise reduction was likely not used.
@shikharrawat5030 3 жыл бұрын
I only watch two nerdy's. Dp journey❤️ and Gerald undone.❤️
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
The NERD LEAGUE
@AK-IT 3 жыл бұрын
Facts
@JoaoSilva22222 3 жыл бұрын
DP Journey, spends on expensive gear so you can learn before you swipe your own card..... simply the best on YT!!!!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Wow, thanks! Really appreciate your support
@aleksandrshik9208 3 жыл бұрын
Nerd parts are exactly why we come to watch your videos. Pretty much no one goes this deep with information and testings like you! You save us so much time to figure all this out on our own. Thank you!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much Aleks! really glad you find my content valuable.
@MrVh78 3 жыл бұрын
You're absolutely right on your partial debayering theory regarding BRAW. The reason being is that Black Magic does that to get around RED' RAW patent of pure internal RAW. That's why prores Raw is only acquired through external devices.
@andrewrabon 3 жыл бұрын
First I've heard of this. Any idea when that patent expires? I think it's usually 20 years...
@MrVh78 3 жыл бұрын
@@andrewrabon Not sure, but Apple tried suing RED and lost the case so maybe its a permanent thing?
@luisa9628 3 жыл бұрын
That doesn't make sense. Canon has their own perfectly functional internal "pure raw" with no issues. Red raw isn't "Pure raw" either, it goes though it's own proprietary process to lower file size. Pure raw is cinema DNG, or any other special file type that is literally just pure code from the sensor and those files are even larger then redcode. Apple sued RED because Apple patent trolls everybody it possibly can. They lose these cases all the time.
@MrVh78 3 жыл бұрын
@@luisa9628 sorry my bad I meant pure compressed RAW. Cinema DNG is uncompressed. Braw gets around this by partially debayering the image. If Apple won the suit it would have benefited us not Apple. It was a major lawsuit google it. In fact Sony got sued by RED for its internal compressed RAW in F65 F55 cameras.
@divisionoflabor3070 2 жыл бұрын
RED as a company sucks for this reason.
@akmalsalikhov3732 3 жыл бұрын
16 minutes felt like 8 minutes, I left with feeling I want more) Thank you Sherif for great and this time pretty soon released video.
@dathofilms 3 жыл бұрын
Who else gets excited during Nerd alerts? 🤓
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
hahaha... I thought they were turn offs for most people!
@galachiev 3 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY but in fact they make us to focus on nerd parts more than anything else)
@luisa9628 3 жыл бұрын
It's the reason I subscribed. They're so good. Your infographics are clean, concise, and clear and I walk away knowing more than I learned in most of my cinematography classes. I think any other youtuber would have put that information in some sort of "masterclass" that they charge money for.
@shridexdigi1982 2 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY PLEASEEEEE kindly do a comparison like this between Red Raw and Prores Raw please. Your explanation of PRORES RAW is the best
@THEDPJOURNEY 2 жыл бұрын
This is a good idea actually… but won’t be an accurate comparison as it needs to be coming from the same sensor. And there’s no sensor out there that can record both formats
@stephanes. 3 жыл бұрын
This channel really is the Netflix of reviews! So interesting and joyful to watch!!!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Hahah that’s the best compliment ever!!
@vuspectrum 3 жыл бұрын
I can't believe that I've been missing out on your Channel. Thank you for the great info & knowledge!
@Dartheomus 3 жыл бұрын
Simply Brilliant. Thank you for taking the time to do these in depth investigations. They take a lot of time and require that you own the hardware. However, this seems to be the ONLY way to get to the bottom of these questions. Great work!
@TheProVideo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for video, I have a question, I was using Panasonic last 7-8 years now I am using Sony A7SIII, I love and hate this camera, I cant do the same color as I did on Panasonic, and it is really bothering me. I want to switch again to Panasonic but there is one issue here the stops me to buy Panasonic, it is autofocus, which is important for me as an Automative Videographer. if I decide to switch which one are you recommend?
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
At the moment... I would wait for the GH6 then... I have a feeling it'll have a new AF system that could be reliable.
@TheProVideo 3 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY I hope GH6 will have good AF, i will wait for that and your review too, Thank You, waiting for more video. i will be happy if you give me some advice for Sony color, I am using Slog 3 +1 exposing, recorder Ninja V 5inc
@omneyanoureldin3651 3 жыл бұрын
You never cease to amaze me! As usual, a very thorough and detailed info. You’re the best👍
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate that!
@TheFraziers 2 жыл бұрын
Nice comparison! I would love to see a comparison between the two formats in regards to workflow. Things like editing performance, compatibility with software, and file sizes.
@DanielsYoffe 3 жыл бұрын
These animations are sick! Love that style! Why can't I subscribe x10 times in a row, but just once? ))) Great video!
@THEDPJOURNEY 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much D, really flattered with your kind words
@boodi1170 3 жыл бұрын
That was a surprise! I’ve always thought that black magic & pro red raw process the noise the same way! Watching the raw war is pretty fun Can’t wait to see how it will develop
@AndreiLucaa 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! There is so much knowledge packed in your videos. 👏
@user-kn4by8rq5q Жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for the blogger who explained the most detailed information on the whole website!
@Esaisaenz 8 ай бұрын
Great video. This was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for testing it out!
@THEDPJOURNEY 8 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@MartinAaberge 2 жыл бұрын
Wow! The production value in this video man! Instant sub! I just got access to a bmpcc4k and naturally choose braw because I don’t have enough experience with the raw formats. This is super interesting though. Gonna have to try both :)
@JoaquimGonsalves Жыл бұрын
Incredibly well made video! Thank you for all the details. 🤩 One request: would love to see the RAW performance of both formats from the XH2S and the XH2. Thank you!
@JerryMa 3 жыл бұрын
Wow, been searching for article about prores vs braw for a long time! Finally you made one for us👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🔥🔥🔥!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Happy to help 😀
@YOUAREMYKIN Жыл бұрын
Your videos are so insightful! 🙏🏽 Just watched 4 in a row. I hope you do make the one about noise post production that (I think) you mentioned. And one about Canon’s R5C, or Canon RAW Light.
@TheIconfriend 3 жыл бұрын
Another wonderful analysis, thanks for the detailed info!!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@cinemavius 3 жыл бұрын
it's not a nerd, it's a knowledge that everyone should know and understand every detail.
@silas1414 2 жыл бұрын
This is a beautifully crafted video. Excellent information.
@THEDPJOURNEY 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for the kind words, really appreciate it
@nicholastoo858 2 жыл бұрын
- 2:37 There are cameras that output 16 bit raw, and there's a recorder that records 16 bit linear. Checkout the Sony AXS-R7 External 4K RAW Recorder for VENICE, PMW-F55 & F5. - 7:37 Thanks for the tip. - Thanks for the whole video. You answered lots of questions that I had about braw & prores raw.
@ShotByDale 2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Been looking for a comparison of the formats for a while. As a PC user, and davinic user, braw is the only option for me for now. I also love how lightweight it is, and now we know why. I look forward to seeing how the wb issue is in the s5 update coming soon. But not an overall deal breaker for me.
@Arsenjev_Kirill 11 ай бұрын
Great job! Very interesting information! THanx a lot!!
@THEDPJOURNEY 11 ай бұрын
Glad you liked it!
@Photographicelements 3 жыл бұрын
I think this should be an ‘Epic Rap Battle!’ Great tech review! Thanks so much for being so detailed! Best of youtube!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching! Always a pleasure to hear back from you
@SliwkaProductions Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this tutorial and testing both RAW formats 😀
@THEDPJOURNEY Жыл бұрын
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching
@libraproducciones 3 жыл бұрын
Amazed by the level of the production, every single time 🔥🔥 btw, how do you denoise (or recommend to do it) your braw footage?
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for the comment, I use neat video for the noising. It has a basic and advanced level in all cases. The basic level is pretty good out of the box
@Sethmotley 2 жыл бұрын
Man your video reviews are awesome
@peterleukhardt 3 жыл бұрын
I would love to see a video where you explain how you do these kind of videos. (Plugins/ transitions / animation etc) this is the best camera tech channel ever keep it up (right next to camera conspiracies of course :D )
@donaldharmonify Жыл бұрын
This is such well made and detailed. Thank you!
@THEDPJOURNEY Жыл бұрын
My pleasure. Thanks for watching
@josefrogoschewsky6458 3 жыл бұрын
Wow, that’s how you do motion graphics in a tech video. Outstanding work! Great video.
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks 🙏 really appreciate it
@skayeos 3 жыл бұрын
Great review ! Guess they could fix by an next update. Better choice by a DP is to create fast and control all clip.
@fatheadmediapro 3 жыл бұрын
Hells yeah. Got my coffee and excited to watch this one.
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Hope you like it Jon 👍
@egran2150 2 жыл бұрын
S1H and SIGMA FP allows now braw externally in 10/12 bit raw and they are very awesome in results !!
@colinthomas2525 2 жыл бұрын
Any updates on this??? Amazing video and channel, thanks so much for all your work.
@aram.v 3 жыл бұрын
Love your videos ! keep up the good work!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much 😊
@posebukse 3 жыл бұрын
Good and thorough vid! It doesn't matter for many tho, as studios invested in powerful PCs running Resolve just won't deal with the extra hassle of ProRes Raw. An A7Siii with BRAW would be a dream come true.
@mpell66 3 жыл бұрын
Really helpful and well presented review. I really like the smooth and interesting graphics used and found the 'nerd alert' part, the most fascinating - though great to have it announced beforehand as an option to skip, if it's not the right time to 'get into it' in the moment. For me, one very big part of the equation is the significantly much higher cost of Adobe Premiere and the fact it is on a subscription model. It is much more attractive and cost effective to purchase another monitor for BRAW at $800 than pay for Premiere and use that for Prores Raw using my Ninja V. Let alone the extra time and work required to process the Prores Raw file in Premiere first, before re-rendering it to then use in Davinci Resolve as the preferred editing software.
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much Marc for your kind words. Glad you liked the “Nerd alert” bit. Yeah the option of Resolve is looking much better than Adobe Pr. I’ll still be talking more about this topic. That’s just a start anyway
@SmolikDavidColor 3 жыл бұрын
I really love your in depth look into these things. I don't feel smart enough to do these kinds of tests myself, but I love learning about it as it can influence how I approach different formats. It's a shame that Resolve still doesn't support ProRes RAW. Until that happens, it's still a no go to me. Thank you for the video!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Really happy you like my approach, yeah ProRes RAW on Resolve will never happen... I can bet on that. Just export to ProRes 4444 and you'll get almost identical results
@robertfeliciano5723 3 жыл бұрын
Your motion graphics are sooooo good. Thanks for the thorough review.
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
My pleasure!
@_CRiT_hits_ 3 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY I love them too! What editor do you use to produce these so quickly and efficiently?
@JerzyCarranza 3 жыл бұрын
Excited to nerd out!
@magnus547 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video! I was curious!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
My pleasure
@tubeman1983 3 жыл бұрын
Great, interesting and useful information here and the production value of the videos you put out is outstanding! I wonder how long it takes you to make all those animations and finish a video. Keep the excellent work you´re doing! Thanks! :)
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much! it takes an average of 2 weeks for each episode, all inclusive (Testing-research-script.animation-etc...)
@matthewvonblerk9675 3 жыл бұрын
great review, thank you.
@Johnny_frost 3 жыл бұрын
insane production. Great rare content!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for the kind words and compliments
@josearce225 2 жыл бұрын
Not only is it great content, but also excellent visuals. 👌🏼
@CameraBattle 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. The effort put into the comparisons and graphics is fantastic. I only continue to take issue with your erroneous assertion that 16-bit raw out is "only a marketing stunt" as we discussed in the comments of your s3 video.
@BNC593 3 жыл бұрын
Really well put together
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Appreciate it
@amaurysvaldez638 3 жыл бұрын
Jeez! Your videos are crazy good.
@reflexmediacompany6389 3 ай бұрын
You're very good at it, but be keeping it so simple for the new comers in the game. Thank you very much for the Master Class lecture
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for watching, glad it was simplified enough for you
@ahmedelwan788 3 жыл бұрын
Great review extremely helpful Thanks
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Happy you liked it. Thanks for watching
@alanbowie 3 жыл бұрын
Great analysis! A lot of work! I aquired the Ninja V with the Nikon Z6 two years ago. Got the Z6 firmware update when ProRes RAW was released. At that time the Ninja V displayed 'Linear' as the input on top left corner. Results were great. As a Davinci Resolve user I purchased an entry level Macbook Pro just for Compressor to transcode to PR 4444XQ. Still very good footage. Just recently aquired the BMD Video Assist 12g 5 inch. Interestingly the codec label on the Z6 back screen says 'N-Log RAW'. After the latest round of firmware updates the Ninja V now displays 'N-Log' in the upper left input. So there is processing of some kind going on on both devices. Having researched a bit I came to the conclusion that Braw was developed to circumnavigate the Red patents? Whatever they've done? It's fantastic going straight into DR Studio on the wide colour gamut. I only wanted 12 bit. And now I don't need to trancode whilst keeping originals backed up. As ever updates will improve. Incidentally, Braw from the Z6 into DR Studio 17 has the highlight recovery option. Your work ethic is incredible and inspiring.
@Karthig1987 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome VIdeo. Really learned a lot.
@syharold 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the great explanation! I was thinking of upgrading to the s1h because of the BRAW, but also heard of an upcoming s1h Mark 2. From your experience, since s1h was released in 2019, do you think its likely for panasonic to update the s1h (i..e s2h or s1h mark 2) this year?
@jonniecandito181 2 жыл бұрын
Can you do a test on how "real" is the 12 bit color?? I'd love to see is BRAW is equal in that respect. I'm recording for HDR content specifically, and because of the 10 bit color end space, I need 12 bit as a starting point to edit from without artifacts or banding.
@shaungo1631 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video. I am deciding right now whether to get the Black Magic or the ProRes (via Ninja V). Question: at 10:46, the BRAW, looks sharper than the ProRes, and despite what you stated that the BRAW must have some noise reduction processing at some point. Noise reduction should reduce detail (?). Will you be doing an analysis on the dynamic range of these format?
@Leonidas909 2 жыл бұрын
From what can be seen, sharpness =/= more details, they have a pass of noise reduction and a pass of sharpness to compensate for the loss that occurs with NR, it gives the illusion of a more detailed image but it's just micro contrast boosting, you can see it everywhere once you notice it. (dark edges around brigt details and the opposite as well)
@NineVoltDigitalCinema 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this! I’ve been waiting to see a good comparison of ProRes RAW vs BRAW from the same sensor. As I suspected BRAW is not actually RAW, but a nice 12-bit yCbCr-like codec. I’ve settled on the Sigma fp for the ProRes RAW, and real 12-bit uncompressed CinemaDNG if needed.
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah it’s like a Prores 444 I’d say but with advanced RAW like controls
@MichaelWeizenfeld 3 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY look what I found: cml.news/g/cml-raw-log-hdr/topic/braw_codec_analysis/25749037 In short, image stores in in both formats, where first format is RGB (or RGB transformmed to YCC) which can be viewed fast and without complexity computing (which can be called ad debayered), and the second is "fourth" green component, which is added if we do full quality debayer. Very smart move) It reminds me C500 external 4K raw, where RGBG' was stored as 2K RGB Alpha via 2 SDIs. But it was not compressed except of log curve.
@CaesperRSA 3 жыл бұрын
Any chance of uploading the test files, just hoping to investigate a little further, great video btw.
@vishalzparadize 3 жыл бұрын
Was waiting for this episode to come out.
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Hope you liked it
@vishalzparadize 3 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY Ya.. Mitigated a lot of doubts I had about the format. Hopeful that they'll bring the update to other S series cameras. I own an S1 and rent the S1H when needed. They've brought the pro res raw to the S1. Not sure how different it is to the S1H version. Haven't shot RAW yet.
@flipfilms1759 2 жыл бұрын
Please do a video on Nikon N-log in the Z6, I can find almost 0 issues and have been noticing external recording issues that honestly make my experience just one big puzzle. I feel you technical approach will do us all a great service in understanding what is happening here. Thank you!
@JoATTech 3 жыл бұрын
This analysis is amazing. Thx. I will still shoot BRAW cause I got BMPCC6k and Sony APS-C which does not support ProRes RAW.
@THEDPJOURNEY Жыл бұрын
UPDATE: FW 2.6 is released and they claim they fixed the WB issue I pointed out. I didn't test it out yet. I only got a verbal confirmation from Panasonic. av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/index4.html
@davidmultimedia2024 Жыл бұрын
Did you test it? Does it completely solve the issue, or only makes it better?
@THEDPJOURNEY Жыл бұрын
I haven't tested it yet no. That’s why I was saying “it should”. Will confirm once I do I edited the statement to make it clearer that I didn't test it
@davidmultimedia2024 Жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY No problem man, I just thought you might have tested it 2 days later. No rush at all. My guess is that it's only better, not completely fixed, since Panasonic say ''improved'' and not ''fixed''.
@THEDPJOURNEY Жыл бұрын
Yeah good point! Curious about their choice of words. Unless they don’t wanna admit it was “broken” before, to need “fixing” ;)
@MichaelWeizenfeld 3 жыл бұрын
I think BRAW uses raw data as a monochromatic video signal with some moderate bitrate mpeg-like compression so it causes this softness and macroblocking (which you called mushiness where you don't see every single pixel). It's interesting to know what type of compression inside of ProRes raw with same bitrate levels.
@MichaelWeizenfeld 2 жыл бұрын
I found some in-depth reverse engineering investigation: cml.news/g/cml-raw-log-hdr/topic/braw_codec_analysis/25749037 In short, image stores in in both formats, where first format is half resolution R-G1-B (or RGB transformmed to YCC) video which can be viewed fast and without complexity computing (which can be called as debayered), and the second is "fourth" green G2 component, which is added to compute "full resolution" if we do full quality debayer. Very smart move) It reminds me C500 external 4K raw, where R-G1-B-G2 was stored as a four 2K RGB + "Alpha" via 2 SDIs. But it was not compressed except of log curve applied.
@JJ_Lawson_VFX Жыл бұрын
In Visual Effects for keying and compositing, noise makes a considerable difference in pulling a clean alpha from a greenscreen or bluescreen. It's usually a better idea to shoot with all the original sensor's noise preserved so that you can denoise the footage in-comp before keying, which gives far more flexibility without the risk of losing detail from the camera's internal denoising. This means that ProRes Raw is certainly better for this. However, we really shouldn't get too caught up in this... A good artist can pull a flawless looking key off of subpar footage, and artists will rarely ever receive a "perfect plate" to key from. There are so many other things to factor into what falls under a good greenscreen plate. Color depth is the bigger factor here, so any 10-12 bit footage will allow a good range to pull a key in a well lit studio where noise shouldn't be overt enough to contaminate the key. At the end of the day you should always decide which format to shoot based on your project budget and level of production. Most importantly, if you do have to do greenscreens or any VFX work, hire a VFX supervisor to ask questions!! It is an investment that is well worth it and will save you TONS of money on the back-end when you can eliminate potential issues on-set.
@guillaumevalli5031 3 жыл бұрын
Wish I could put more than one single thumbs up! Awesome as ever.
@tomcypher3864 3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting. But I much missed neatvideo-denoised image of proresRAW vs BRAW of that lens.
@itsnukeguy 3 жыл бұрын
that wouldve been great, But i guess Denoiser in Davinci Resolve is enough to state a point, plus this DP dude is not much of a premier user I believe.
@tomcypher3864 3 жыл бұрын
@@itsnukeguy He used neatvideo himself. I ment not quite that. Btw, resolve temporal DN tends to blur moving parts of footage.
@jakekeele 2 жыл бұрын
@The DP Journey I was wondering if the S1H is able to send a “true” 24p frame rate to the Atomos Ninja V and have it record Pro Res Raw. I was told that true 24p isn’t a characteristic that is supported through HDMI. Can you shed some light on this when you have a minute? The Lumix rep that does live streams every Thursday said it couldn’t be done but on the Atomos website it has both 24p and 23.98p recording listed under the Ninja V’s tech specs. BTW love the channel. You’re the go to for all my nerdy questions haha
@davidp158 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your very detailed (and wonderful graphic animations) comparison between these two formats. I have concluded that RAW is not a viable option for my workflow, due to large file sizes and clients never requesting it. That said, I am looking to invest in a 5" ProRes recorder and wondering why your comparison chart at 16:00 states the Ninja V is not compatible with Premiere Pro and FC. I edit in Premiere, and wonder if you are implying ProRes RAW is not an option with Premiere. There is also the optional SDI Atom X module for the Ninja V that allows for SDI in/out. Other than the 5" BMVA media options and higher nit output screen, are there other compelling reasons to buy that over the Ninja V for ProRes recording?
@PascalPayantfilms 3 жыл бұрын
Hey my friend. what camera are you using at the moment? is the pocket is still your best choice or you went full sony a7s3?
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
I’m using all cameras I have equally… each serves a different purpose. A7S3 RED Bmpcc6k pro bmpcc4k S1h S5 Gh5
@vaidehiarts 3 жыл бұрын
My thoughts: 1. As a DP, my White Balance is always in the set using Kelvin, and in the ballpark of where I want the image to be eventually. The BRAW limitation isn't a major issue (for me) 2. Davinci Resolve. 'Nuff said 3. BRAW Compression codecs are a major factor for choosing BRAW, especially for documentary style work where something like a 8:1 compression ratio might be a data saver while not compromising on quality 4. The menus and interface on the BM recorders are fantastic, plus External SSD / Internal Dual SD Card options make it more flexible for scaling up or down when shooting.. so essentially, a matter of the recorder along with the format.
@DavidGriffin 3 жыл бұрын
This is helping me be comfortable with the coming Pro Res Raw for my GH5S. THANKS BRO!!!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Always Happy to help David!
@artemus80j.4 3 жыл бұрын
This was best news for me this week! GH5S just got even better.
@DavidGriffin 3 жыл бұрын
@@artemus80j.4 wild is that NOBODY is talking about it!!!!! Anywhere!!! The consequences may possibly be a (more expensive albeit more useable) BMPCC4K!!!
@artemus80j.4 3 жыл бұрын
@@DavidGriffin true I was looking for it too. Could be a bit too soon. Once when firmware gets released we will for sure see something.
@DavidGriffin 3 жыл бұрын
@@artemus80j.4 yeah, I got my ninja v on the ready for it. I dying to see one thing... The highlight recovery tab in Resolve 17 come to life. Somewhere I was told that the GH5S and the BMPCC4K are the EXACT same sensor except BMD literally flipped it upside down and cropped it a little. Side from processing... If this is true and we shoot a true RAW of the sensor... We might see some extremely good gh5s results.
@ez8937 Ай бұрын
Hey there :) Great video, thanks! Is that white balance issue still thing with modern Blackmagic Cameras like those announced at NAB? Same question for the raw fidelity you mentioned? I am currently a Sony user but kind of annoyed by the lack of internal raw options an we are considering making the switch to Blackmagic and their new Ursa cine 12k. But since it now only records in BRAW I wondered if those issues still exist?
@zakariaabed3593 2 жыл бұрын
wow great video i love the style of the video even if the video is 16min long but doesn't look that much Thanks
@clifftotten7609 3 жыл бұрын
Superb video! This is a subject that so many of us had been talking about but you are first to actually make a detailed video on. Yup, it IS highly debatable to call Blackmagic Raw a "real" raw sensor data file save. Yes, they do take the RGGB and they deBayer it into the file. In other words, it's a color merged "flattened" video file. ProRes is REAL raw with three "seperate" raw color channels. BRaw had to flatten their channel data to avoid RED's patent attacks. The part that shocks me is the Blackmagic pre-processing before the file save. I was not expecting that kind of noise reduction in a "raw" file. Thanks for getting this info out there. Question...is Canon "Raw Light" doing the exact same in camera Blackmagic deBayer trick? Is this how Canon also avoids RED's lawyers?
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for your support! yeah we all knew it's partially debayered, but nobody ever talked about what that really means. So I thought it's a good opportunity to do so. That's when I stumbled upon this discovery. What I feel honestly is that BRAW is just a very high end richly colored 12bit compressed format...Like a Blackmagic version of ProRes 4444. They probably came up with a perfect algorithm to make it act like raw by controlling the right parameters in a slider on davinci to act like it's a RAW WB control. Like what I did in the episode manually, but they have a complex algorithm in a shape of a slider. And with that quasi RAW behavior in place, they just called it RAW. That might sound like conspiracy theory, just a thought... so again, I don't care what really happens under the hood or what they call it... the results are great and I'd surely shoot on it. And I haven't tested the canon Raw Light, but what i think canon might have done, is they had a barter deal with RED, they gave them their RF mount for the Komodo in exchange for internal RAW recording... Who knows?
@clifftotten7609 3 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY People talk a lot about wanting more white balance control "in" raw. What many dont know is that "true" raw,....has zero "color" in it. True raw sensor data is three optically filtered grey-scale (black and white) data channels. How do you white balance three seperate grey channels that have zero "color" at all? White balance happens on the IMAGE ASSEMBLY and deBayer stage in raw player. THAT is where white balance is applied. Otherwise, its only metadata for the assembler to go by. Yes,...this is true raw. Blackmagic raw?...because its all flattened and color mixed before it goes to file, then yes!...you CAN bake in white balance. This is a key difference between real raw and Braw
@yodo7661 3 жыл бұрын
Great video, as usual.
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@orangerecords_studio 3 жыл бұрын
this is really a detailed and good explanation :) FI you grade for film though, the with balance on Blackamgic is not so important, as you have to balance the shots anyway .
@TallyHoTech 3 жыл бұрын
Epic What do you use to denoise and sharpen?
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Neat Video. I don't really sharpen much
@Moriarty2007 Жыл бұрын
It's soo deep. I like it. Thanks!
@THEDPJOURNEY Жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it. Thanks for watching
@ingozobel6708 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the compairson. Question: What is the advantage of controlling the White Balance metadata based vs using effect control?
@Alexrocks1253 2 жыл бұрын
The thing ProRes Raw needs to work on is compression sizes. They have a giant HQ size and a still large standard size, but no smaller sizes like Blackmagic Raw. They should implement a 8:1, 12:1, constant quality options like Braw and it'll be more versitile for those who can't necessarily tell the difference between slightly more compressed images and don't have the budget for ginormous file sizes.
@timwynn6079 3 жыл бұрын
Liked it even before watching the video, cause i know it's going to be good.
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much Tim. Really appreciate your support
@trayneadjeifilms 3 жыл бұрын
Nerd Alert within a Nerd Alert, stop the madness! lol great video as always.
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Hahahaha… inception style “Nerd alert”
@WanderAndringa 3 жыл бұрын
I'm curious if the same amount of denoise/sharpening is present in other BM camera's using BRAW. I'm using the UMP12K and the noise is absolutely different from how the pocket6K noise behaves. The pocket6k has this clean look to it, might run some tests to look into it later. Do you know if regular proress does any sharpening/de-noising in the debayer proces?
@thebrothersthre3987 2 жыл бұрын
Its very possible the URSA 12K processing is different. I assume blackmagic probably did more NR on the P6K and 4k as they are more consumer targeted where noise is often looked down on, especially when they have to compete against heavily noise reduced images coming form other cameras in the 1-2k price range.
@vinoneil 2 жыл бұрын
The Ursa Mini Pro 12K uses a completely different sensor than all of Blackmagic's other cameras so I'd expect the results to be different.
@seanning1276 3 жыл бұрын
your content always tickle me in the right spot . daaaaamn
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Sean. Happy you like the content
@itsnukeguy 3 жыл бұрын
Love it, and loved the analysis, but that much of a difference... is it worth is going for Ninja V or any external recorder, spending around $1k ? I mean, you've shown a detailed way around how to handle the noise, and at the end of the day, we can tweak it in post. So if someones is using BlackMagic, is it bad?
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Not at all, what I presented here is the flat truths, if you’re OK with what you’re seeing then it should be completely fine with you. I personally love blackmagic color science, and the minimal loss of detail and mushiness in the noise will not really deter me from using BRAW at all. Only on the S1H the white balance problem is the drawback
@OmarSherien 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot, subscribed
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, welcome aboard
@michaelmazzen 3 жыл бұрын
Assimilate scratch is amazing for transcoding from Prores Raw to DNxHR or ProRes - you can pipe through with correct colorspace interpreting and tagging as slog2 cinegamma or whatevever you want. So you get exactly the same files from Scratch render as if shooting in DNxHR or prores native, but with better quality and bit depth. Also perfect if you add Neat video OFX in the Scratch pipe. This works perfectly in a YRGB davinci colormanaged workflow. The color "management" in PP or FCPX or pretty much non existing, which makes working with prores raw native maddening. If been saying for years now that not supporting ProRes raw is going to be the downfall of blackmagic design ... :-) lets see ...
@Ariel_emerald 3 жыл бұрын
assimilate scratch costs an obscene amount of money for the simple purpose of transcoding. adobe media encoder works just as well
@TallyHoTech 3 жыл бұрын
Do you have a LUT pack for ProRes RAW I can buy for the S1H
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
I do... just need to find the time to package it LOL...
@TallyHoTech 3 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY Can’t wait.
@rubiotv 3 жыл бұрын
Bro thanks for this crazy breakdown. I'm curious would you choose to record in RAW for everything?
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your support. No of course not, RAW is mainly for Commercial work or in a challenging lighting circumstances where you don't have much control over color and lighting maybe. RAW needs proper post work.... I shoot 75% of my work in RAW
@rubiotv 3 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY so when shooting run and gun commercial or doc work it could be beneficial
@lowbeampictures729 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the deep dive. It never fails to amaze me that correcting white balance in post is such a big deal. Do experienced filmmakers routinely not set ISO and white balance on set? I realize that things can fall through the cracks when working under pressure, but still. Isn't this on everyone's checklist?
@THEDPJOURNEY 2 жыл бұрын
Post WB adj is not just about getting the “correct” WB on set. Many times you shoot in mixed color lights conditions, where there’s no right or wrong. So if you set it to one of them, then the parts exposed to the other colored light would look “wrong” so to speak. Also sometimes you need to intentionally shoot off white balance to preview a special effect and show your client. Like intentionally shooting with WB shifted to cool in a horror or eerie scenario. But you know you’ll need to bring that back to normal and properly grade it. There are many other scenarios that you need it for… I can go on forever 😂
@lowbeampictures729 2 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY Thank you for the explanation. White balance and exposure up/down make sense.
@magnus547 3 жыл бұрын
One additional comment - I don't believe that Blackmagic will solve the Debayering issue. They purposely designed it this way so that the files can take some pressure off of the editor and make it very easy to smoothly edit high resolution "raw" files. When I was using the BMPCC 4K, I was recording raw in C-DNG files, and it basically retained all the noise from the original recordings, but when Blackmagic design updated the camera to record BRAW, the files were immediately softer and less noisy because of this "in camera" debayering process. I knew what was happening, but it was a life saver for editing "raw" clips quickly, while retaining WB and exposure controls. Plus the flexability to use BRAW in Adobe Premiere and Davinci are a win too, since I do not own a MAC. Since I do not own a MAC, I don't even have a choice - BRAW wins this contest for me.
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah exactly... that was my point that this softness is here to stay. But of course WB could be fixed (Theoretically) since it's more on Panasonic
@magnus547 3 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY Got it. Understood.
@MichaelWeizenfeld 3 жыл бұрын
I remember debates on "lossless" compressed CDNG vs uncompressed CDNG on Blackmagic Cinema camera 2.5k, and I saw the reduction in quality too) It is very sad that BM completely removed uncompressed CDNG options in all their contemporary cameras.
@JamesJacksonFilmz 3 жыл бұрын
The partial debayering has a lot to do with them Bypassing RED’s paten
@MichaelWeizenfeld 3 жыл бұрын
@@JamesJacksonFilmz these mysterious Red patents... How does Canon and Arri implement raw recording in their cameras?
@MrMassimomoni 2 жыл бұрын
hi...thank you for the video...really interesting and well done....only at the end there is a little mistake ....ninja v in fact has an addictional module for sdi.
@itsoverat6000 3 жыл бұрын
Well done!
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@prismeyefilms5477 3 жыл бұрын
Very technical ❤️🔥 Cheers
@THEDPJOURNEY 3 жыл бұрын
I'll take it as a compliment :)
@prismeyefilms5477 3 жыл бұрын
@@THEDPJOURNEY obviously it is :)😉
@broaf 3 жыл бұрын
when Blackmagic introduced bRAW they explained how it works very detailed as far as I remember. and as far as I remember they also mentioned the intermediate layers of processing the data and image... Me personally still prefer the good old DNG format (with 3:1 compression). I think that was (that is) the best format for RAW.
@jjones2582 3 жыл бұрын
I think BMD should offer the option for true RAW alongside their hybrid version, for recorders that can meet the bandwidth needs.
@broaf 3 жыл бұрын
@@jjones2582 definitely. however I would still choose the BMMCC because of the more pleasing Fairchild sensor :)
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